Get 2-Bedrooms For Under the 1998 Price a Half a Block from Wrigley: 3516 N. Sheffield

Jun 6 • Foreclosures, Lakeview • 135 Views • 105 Comments

This 2-bedroom top floor unit in a former church at 3516 N. Sheffield just a half a block away from Wrigley Field in Lakeview has been on the market since March 2011.

3516-n-sheffield.jpg

It is bank owned.

In that time, it has been reduced $31,000.

It is not only listed $108,500 under its 2004 purchase price but also $17,500 under the 1998 purchase price, when the building was originally converted from a church into condos.

The 1998 purchase, however, also included parking- and from what I can tell from the listing and the public record- the current unit does not. Parking is going for $25,000 in the building.

It is a top floor unit with east and west views as well as skylights.

From the pictures, the kitchen is intact and has stainless steel appliances and granite counter tops.

The listing says the bathroom is marble.

The unit has hardwood floors, central air and in-unit washer/dryer.

The listing says it needs some minor maintenance like painting but is otherwise in move-in condition.

Is this a steal?

[You'll notice the bank didn't hold onto this one very long before re-listing it.]

Eric Janssen at Chicago Real Estate Resources has the listing. See the pictures here.

Unit #4RS: 2 bedrooms, 1 bath, 1150 square feet

  • Sold in January 1998 for $216,500 (included parking)
  • Sold in April 1999 for $227,500 (included parking)
  • Sold in May 2000 for $264,000 (included parking)
  • Sold in September 2004 for $307,500 (did NOT include parking)
  • Lis pendens filed November 2008
  • Lis pendens filed March 2010
  • Bank owned in January 2011
  • Originally listed in March 2011 for $230,000
  • Reduced
  • Currently listed at $199,000
  • Assessments of $262 a month
  • Taxes of $5387
  • Central Air
  • Washer/Dryer in the unit
  • No parking
  • Bedroom #1: 13×11
  • Bedroom #2: 12×11

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105 Responses to Get 2-Bedrooms For Under the 1998 Price a Half a Block from Wrigley: 3516 N. Sheffield

  1. Icarus says:

    not my cup of tea, but this could be a good investment opportunity assuming the numbers work out. The taxes would have to be appealed, and the HOA would have to be sound, but if there isn’t any hidden damage, you probably would find an abundance of twenty somethings that would love to live this close to Wrigleyville’s biggest beer garden.

  2. Wicker says:

    Holy crap is that kitchen screaming “Don’t do anything but bake frozen pizzas and microwave things!”

    Also looks like previous owners really took to heart the adage that they should paint the walls. Nice built in but no parking would be quite tough here.

  3. Groove77 says:

    “Holy crap is that kitchen screaming “Don’t do anything but bake frozen pizzas and microwave things!””

    dooooode lycos map that address bro, and then the kitchen makes all the sense in the world!

  4. homedelete says:

    Awful, hideous unit. I’d walk away from this unit too. However, not until I cashed out big time!

    Executed Recorded Document Type Amount
    09/29/2004 11/01/2004 MORTGAGE $245,000.00
    REFI INTO
    Executed Recorded Document Type Amount
    01/23/2006 02/09/2006 MORTGAGE $284,000.00

    Executed Recorded Document Type Amount
    09/29/2004 11/01/2004 MORTGAGE $46,125.00
    REFI INTO
    Executed Recorded Document Type Amount
    01/23/2006 02/09/2006 MORTGAGE $71,000.00

    Lis pendens November 2008
    Modification April 2009
    2nd lis pendens March 2010
    Foreclosure deed January 2011

    Work the system baby, work it!

  5. Jennifer says:

    I have to agree with Icarus – possible investment potential but no way I’d want to live in this. I wonder how much better it would look if they just went in with a can of white paint.

  6. local says:

    Yikes…what did this developer do to this beautiful church…this is horrible. That stuck on thing covering where the old stain glass window used to be…what a way to totally cheapen the look.

  7. Eric says:

    I saw this unit twice with a redfin agent. The kitchen definitely needs to be re-done. There is almost zero storage space. Also, the W/D is in the bathroom so no linen closet there. Also… 4th floor in a non-elevator building. No storage outside of unit and no parking makes this a no-go.

  8. dd says:

    “Yikes…what did this developer do to this beautiful church…this is horrible. That stuck on thing covering where the old stain glass window used to be…what a way to totally cheapen the look.”

    totally agree

  9. Sabrina says:

    “I have to agree with Icarus – possible investment potential but no way I’d want to live in this.”

    This only confirms what I’ve been saying for a long time:

    Most buyers have no vision. The property must be in “move-in” ready condition in order for anyone to be interested. After all- what’s the big deal about putting some new paint up?

    But even readers here on Crib Chatter can’t see beyond it just needing some TLC.

    Clearly- for 13 years- people were willing to pay more than this current list price to live in this location. What’s changed? Same drunken Cubs fan on the block.

    Yet- this sits and sits. What- no 20-somethings suddenly interested? Why not?

    Seems to me this illustrates that there has been a fundamental shift towards condo ownership- at least in some neighborhoods.

    There is another 2/1 for sale in the building listed at $289k plus $25k for the parking. It doesn’t have the paint issues and has what looks to be a larger kitchen. Will someone buy that just because it looks pretty? Same location. Same drunken fans.

  10. Sabrina says:

    “Yikes…what did this developer do to this beautiful church…this is horrible.”

    Again- this church has been looking like this for 13 years. Hasn’t stopped dozens of people from buying in the building over that time period. What’s the difference now?

  11. homedelete says:

    The difference this time is that the koolaid isn’t spiked which is a world of change for a drunken cubs fan.

  12. gringozecarioca says:

    what’s the difference now?

    20 somethings don’t have jobs and can’t get loans??

  13. Icarus says:

    “20 somethings don’t have jobs and can’t get loans??”

    But they can get roommates and rent this for whatever the market bears in Wrigleyville these days.

  14. Icarus says:

    “Most buyers have no vision. The property must be in “move-in” ready condition in order for anyone to be interested. After all- what’s the big deal about putting some new paint up?”

    Definitely in this case. There’s a difference between “move-in Ready” and “move-in condition” and this often gets confused.

    To me:
    Move-in Ready means you don’t have to do anything except paint and decorate.

    Move-in condition means you have reliable heat, water and plumbing and can update/renovate at your desired speed ($$ or skillset).

  15. Sonies says:

    the church wasn’t much of a looker to begin with.

    this place screams $1500 a month rental stock, so the price should reflect accordingly

  16. G says:

    Here is the May Lake View condo/TH closed sales volume for each year:

    2005 292
    2006 327
    2007 280
    2008 182
    2009 115
    2010 181
    2011 118

  17. homedelete says:

    “2005 292
    2006 327
    2007 280
    2008 182
    2009 115
    2010 181
    2011 118″

    Wow that volume sucks. Most realtors must be eating crumbs.

  18. Jennifer says:

    I wouldn’t live here because the place is depressing -it would take more than a can of paint to make that kitchen usable or that bathroom somewhere I’d actually want to take a shower.

    As for why most buyers want move in ready – it’s a matter of cash. A lot of people would rather conserve their cash than sink it into a property without any guarantee they’d get it back. Plain and simple.

  19. G says:

    Here are the May condo/TH/SFH totals for the City of Chicago.

    1997 1,688
    1998 1,968
    1999 2,108
    2000 2,560
    2001 2,348
    2002 2,654
    2003 2,762
    2004 3,249
    2005 3,589
    2006 3,592
    2007 3,132
    2008 2,174
    2009 1,579
    2010 2,111
    2011 1,702

    May 2011 volume down 19% YOY
    May 2011 median of $190,000, down 17% YOY
    May 2011 short sales/foreclosures were 38% of sales, up from 29% in May 2010

  20. Sonies says:

    “Wow that volume sucks. Most realtors must be eating crumbs.”

    yeah if they are lucky, they are eating cat food

  21. anon (tfo) says:

    “May 2011 short sales/foreclosures were 38% of sales, up from 29% in May 2010″

    So, about 35 more ss/f-c sales in ’11 than ’10. And non-distressed sales off ~30%.

  22. Phil says:

    “this place screams $1500 a month rental stock, so the price should reflect accordingly”

    $850 -20% down, 5% 30-yr
    $350 -reassessed taxes
    $260 -association fees
    —-
    $1460

    I think the price is close to making sense.

  23. homedelete says:

    How many 25 year old have $40,000 as a down payment and how many of them are willing to buy this depressing condo?

    It also requires a reassessment of the taxes which may or may not happen.

    I see further price drops.

    “Phil on June 6th, 2011 at 9:51 am

    “this place screams $1500 a month rental stock, so the price should reflect accordingly”

    $850 -20% down, 5% 30-yr
    $350 -reassessed taxes
    $260 -association fees
    —-
    $1460

    I think the price is close to making sense.”

  24. G says:

    “So, about 35 more ss/f-c sales in ‘11 than ‘10. And non-distressed sales off ~30%.”

    5/2009 523 short sales/foreclosures
    5/2010 617
    5/2011 654

    Here are some May sales totals for condo/TH/SFH by community area with short sale/foreclosure total and % of sales:

    Lincoln Park
    2009 87 4 5%
    2010 102 5 5%
    2011 75 15 20%

    Lake View
    2009 124 6 5%
    2010 196 17 9%
    2011 133 14 11%

    North Center
    2009 36 3 8%
    2010 57 2 4%
    2011 49 4 8%

    Near North Side
    2009 154 23 15%
    2010 197 21 11%
    2011 177 27 15%

    Loop
    2009 45 5 11%
    2010 74 8 11%
    2011 69 20 29%

    Near South Side
    2009 46 6 13%
    2010 69 9 13%
    2011 44 15 34%

    Near West Side
    2009 62 9 15%
    2010 85 14 16%
    2011 62 15 24%

    Irving Park
    2009 22 11 50%
    2010 35 7 20%
    2011 24 16 67%

    Avondale
    2009 6 5 83%
    2010 6 5 83%
    2011 6 4 67%

    Logan Square
    2009 36 6 17%
    2010 42 7 17%
    2011 44 5 11%

    Portage Park
    2009 25 7 28%
    2010 36 16 44%
    2011 32 14 44%

  25. anon (tfo) says:

    “It also requires a reassessment of the taxes which may or may not happen. ”

    A drop to $4200 on a sale price of $200 is pretty conservative.

    But this is an obvious 3-5% down place, which increases the mtg and adds pmi.

    And, as a rental, would need to drop to ~$150 to be a good risk.

  26. homedelete says:

    Irving Park
    2009 22 11 50%
    2010 35 7 20%
    2011 24 16 67%

    Avondale
    2009 6 5 83%
    2010 6 5 83%
    2011 6 4 67%

    2 out of every 3 sales are distress sales!

  27. nonya says:

    “What’s the difference now?”

    Now the Cubs *really* suck. At least they were okay in some of those past years…

  28. Phil says:

    HD- There’s plenty of people looking for that first investment property. Given the proximity to Wrigley, this is starting to look like a low-risk opportunity to dip your feet into the investment/rental market; get a feel for screening tenants, time involved for maintenance, vacancy cost, etc.

    Those 25 yr-old’s don’t have 40k for a down payment and that’s why they’ll continue to rent.

    The price is starting to make sense from that perspective. Maybe another 15k-20k on the downside tops.

  29. Sonies says:

    Don’t forget that maintenance costs will be much greater with the drunken fratboys occupying your place, good luck getting a larger security deposit these days

  30. Phil says:

    anon- I’ll place 151k bid, just in case you’re out there.

  31. anon (tfo) says:

    “2011 6 4 67%

    2 out of every 3 sales are distress sales!”

    It’s better than *either* of the prior 2 Mays.

    And had there been 2 more non-distressed sales, it would have been “only” half. It’s like the guy who goes 4 for 5 with two homers on opening day–he’s on pace to destroy records, but the samples too small to mean much–in this case, nothing much moves in Avondale in May.

  32. homedelete says:

    I’ve always found the onesie units in larger condo buildings to be terrible investments. Specials, boards, assessments, etc, they all add up. I’ve known plenty of investors in my lifetime as clients, especially during the boom, and I’ve always found these onesies to never pan out, even if at the end of the day on paper it appeared ‘break even’.

    If you want to get your feet wet, invest in a nice two flat (or is really a three flat listed as a two flat) for $180,000

    http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3123-N-Central-Park-Ave-60618/home/13448569

    Lots of these around. NO specials or assessments at all, make your own repairs, no boards, no neighbors on the board to complain..

    and get it for little money down too!

    Executed Recorded Document Type Amount
    04/27/2011 05/09/2011 MORTGAGE $175,437.00

    Now THAT’S investing.

    “And, as a rental, would need to drop to ~$150 to be a good risk.”

  33. homedelete says:

    Sold on 04/07/2011
    $175,000 3340 N Albany Ave
    Chicago, IL 60618

    $35,000 is 20% down!

    Get ur feet wett!

    http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3340-N-Albany-Ave-60618/home/13453538

  34. Phil says:

    HD- that’s pretty close to what I’m looking for. If you find one that isn’t sold, let me know.

  35. anon (tfo) says:

    “If you want to get your feet wet, invest in a nice two flat (or is really a three flat listed as a two flat) for $180,000″

    Yep, that one (assuming no structural defects; porch looks good) is a almost sure winner. Some room to play around with rent and still get a *good* return.

    I was dealing with the “good for an investment” concept on this one–if $1500 is expected rent, need the taxes cut and a meaningful price cut for it to be sensible.

  36. Phil says:

    First one interesting. A little close to expressway, looks like section-8 across the street?

    $1084 really the taxes on the second one?

  37. Anne says:

    I think there is a small window for which one can live this close to Wrigley, which is typically between 22-26. People that age cannot get a loan anymore (or even a job) and so that market is gone.

  38. jenny says:

    I actually like the kitchen. To me, kitchens are just a waste of space. I want my kitchen to fit in as small a space as possible. I was touring a foreclosure recently and I told the agent that I didn’t need to replace the stove the previous owners had taken. He seem dumbfounded. I guess my point is that not everyone needs a large kitchen.

    I don’t like this area though. There are too many bicycles and drunk people.

  39. homedelete says:

    For a lot of today’s youths the student loans and the credit cards from college throw off the DTI ratios just enough to make it difficult to get a loan for a place like this. Plus, why at age 24 or 25 would someone want to commit to such a purchase?

    “I think there is a small window for which one can live this close to Wrigley, which is typically between 22-26. People that age cannot get a loan anymore (or even a job) and so that market is gone.”

  40. Sonies says:

    That is why hd, everyone here is saying that an investor will pick it up, when priced appropriately

  41. homedelete says:

    But I disagree with the investor angle too. Onesies make terrible investments. This is a 3.5% for an unlucky first time homebuyer after a number of price drops. Units like this are totally f’d.

  42. Chris M says:

    People have been talking about the teen mobs downtown and at North Ave beach…anyone see this article on the Tribune?

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chibrknews-victim-of-downtown-teen-mob-i-couldnt-believe-it-it-was-broad-daylight-20110606,0,7592063.story

  43. DC says:

    “People have been talking about the teen mobs downtown and at North Ave beach…anyone see this article on the Tribune?”

    yeah someone mentioned those here a few weeks ago. scary as hell. very good to hear they caught at least a few of them, but unfortunately i don’t think they will get penalized too harshly as they are minors

  44. anon (tfo) says:

    “unfortunately i don’t think they will get penalized too harshly as they are minors”

    They got five of them, three 17+, so charged as adults with robbery and mob action, both felonies.

  45. DC says:

    “They got five of them, three 17+, so charged as adults with robbery and mob action, both felonies.”

    yep just read the article and saw that. good to know.

    my next thought is what happens when they are done with their attack and they stand there holding one ipad and one blackberry and there are 20 guys to split it

  46. anon (tfo) says:

    “my next thought is what happens when they are done with their attack and they stand there holding one ipad and one blackberry and there are 20 guys to split it”

    They sell them to a “pawn broker” who looks surprisingly like a blues musician for $50, and buy a pizza or split some 40s or weed or whatever kids do with $50 these days.

  47. PermaBear says:

    “yeah someone mentioned those here a few weeks ago. scary as hell.”

    I mentioned it last year when I had a run cut short on a nice evening due to the po-po closing the lakefront. It helped make up my mind about moving out of the Gold Coast. The cops closed the lakefront again last Monday due to “heat.”

  48. DC says:

    Well… speak of the devil. Another mob attack yesterday

    http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/06/06/uic-student-attacked-by-mob-on-bus/

  49. clio says:

    What was very interesting is that I was right there (crossing chicago from RL to Nomi) exactly when it happened. I saw a bunch of black teens who really looked out of place just harassing and menacing people as they rudely and obnoxiously ran loudly west on chicago avenue. What was even more amazing was that nobody seemed to be bothered or sense that these people were dangerous and out of place. This is how scared people are of being accused of being a racist. Again, this has nothing to do with race. The offending teens could have been white, brown, asian, hispanic, etc – it was more their behavior – but nobody except the girl I was with seemed to think anything was wrong. As a society we have to stop this type of behavior. I just hope Rahm will enable and empower the police to keep these thugs where they belong (or, if they want to join the rest of society, they have to be held to the same behavioral standards – no matter what color they are).

  50. Phil says:

    I plug my ipad whenever I see a flashmob. Whole thing up the arse. Never had a problem yet.

  51. DC says:

    “As a society we have to stop this type of behavior”

    I could not agree more and would gladly pay even higher taxes for more police. Protection of citizens is the government’s highest priority (it should be at least). The race riots drove all the well-to-do families out of Detroit in the 60s and look what that led to

  52. Sonies says:

    sorry I lol’d (again) during this article

    “”I wasn’t going to give them my cell phone,” said Wilkowski. “Then I remember fighting only one guy. We were about the same size and wrestling. He had no fighting skills, though, and then they all scattered,” he said.

    Police responded after the fight was over.

    “I went around in a squad car up and down the area, but they (the mob) went in all directions,” he said. “I ended up having some food in Bucktown and then got home around midnight.”

    An insurance broker in the suburbs, Wilkowski joked, “Maybe if I told them to buy some insurance, they would have run off to begin with.”

    ha, classic!

    so clio, did you call the cops on the group you saw? if you didn’t, you’re part of the problem

  53. Bob says:

    “I could not agree more and would gladly pay even higher taxes for more police.”

    You’re completely looking at the wrong part of the equation. Most of these thugs have lengthy records. Talking 5+ pages–that guy who crippled that Irish exchange girl for life had a 13 page record and he was 31. They only do a couple weeks of time, if any, for crimes like this.

    The money would be much better spent making them do a meaningful amount of time when they are finally caught. How about they free some drug possession people and put these guys in there? I guess that makes too much sense.

    Police rarely are able to protect anyone from a crime–that’s a liberal myth the media propagates. They come after the face to take a report and make arrests if they can find the suspect(s).

  54. anon (tfo) says:

    “Police rarely are able to protect anyone from a crime–that’s a liberal myth the media propagates.”

    word choice is interesting.

  55. Bob says:

    Arrest one or two of the wildlings and send them away for three years (so five years total) and you’ll see the rest get the message. It really is that simple.

  56. DC says:

    “You’re completely looking at the wrong part of the equation.”

    I was speaking very very generally. Meaning I will pay higher taxes for a safer city. However is the best way to do it is up to the Police and the Courts and everyone else to figure out. Perhaps I shouldn’t have specifically said “more police”.

  57. Sonies says:

    I already feel overtaxed and safe… now if I lived in parts of the southside and paid even half of what i pay i’d surely be pissed. here lies the problem

  58. Bob says:

    Know why there haven’t been any more publicized highschool beatings using weapons lately? Word got around that the wildlings involved in that one are gone for good.

    The wildlings are stupid, but they aren’t irrational. They are capable of modifying their behavior it just takes an amount of punishment in excess of what is frequently doled out by our criminal justice system.

  59. Bob says:

    Err that one = Derrion Albert beating.

  60. homedelete says:

    Bob – they don’t get the message. They get out of jail and commit more crimes. that’s how you end up with a rap sheet 13 pages long. The 24 year old wilding who ran over somebody with their own vehicle. He’s sentenced to jail at least twice, he’s out for only a few weeks and is at it again.

    http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/news/local/chibrknews-murder-charges-filed-after-man-run-over-by-car-on-west-side-20110605,0,7440657.story

    It’s part of the culture, it’s pervasive. We have a entire subculture – regardless of race – that is criminal minded. They are perpetually unemployed, there are no good paying jobs. 20 years ago they would have had factory jobs or service jobs but today with limited education and limited jobs, they’re forced to commit petty, and often felony, crimes to make their way. They act on impulse with regard to future consequence. If going prison twice deterred this individual, he wouldn’t have committed this crime of murder.

    WHen I talk about the subculture of street thugs and criminality that’s prevalent in the cities, this is of what I speak.

  61. Beju says:

    “You’re completely looking at the wrong part of the equation. Most of these thugs have lengthy records. Talking 5+ pages–that guy who crippled that Irish exchange girl for life had a 13 page record and he was 31. They only do a couple weeks of time, if any, for crimes like this.”
    ASAs generally only take slam-dunk cases to trial. At the end of the day, they have limited resources and need to try cases in front of a Cook County jury.

    “The money would be much better spent making them do a meaningful amount of time when they are finally caught. How about they free some drug possession people and put these guys in there? I guess that makes too much sense.”
    Buying into the liberal myth of people guilty of mere drug possession, and that’s it? That might be true in some places, but in Cook County, judges rarely let small amounts of drugs past probable cause hearings, and will look for any excuse to toss those cases out. A large number of people who get convicted of possession are drug dealers who plead to lesser possession charges.

  62. jenny says:

    I’d be fine paying higher taxes to keep these people in prison until they are too old to get around without using a walker or four pronged cane.

  63. homedelete says:

    It’s sort of like the drinking and fighting a stabbing culture in scotland. you just can’t help those people. They drink, stab and fight on the outside, on the inside and everywhere they go.

  64. Bob says:

    “It’s sort of like the drinking and fighting a stabbing culture in scotland. you just can’t help those people. They drink, stab and fight on the outside, on the inside and everywhere they go.”

    If you look at the stabbing perpetrators you’ll find a lot of them aren’t native british. Think pakistanis.

  65. jenny says:

    Let them fight each other in prison!

  66. Bob says:

    “It’s part of the culture, it’s pervasive. We have a entire subculture – regardless of race – that is criminal minded. ”

    Then you take them off the streets long enough for their testosterone to settle (ie: early-mid 30s) so their crimes become more white collar/property related vs. violent.

    “They are perpetually unemployed, there are no good paying jobs. 20 years ago they would have had factory jobs or service jobs but today with limited education and limited jobs, they’re forced to commit petty, and often felony, crimes to make their way. They act on impulse with regard to future consequence.”

    You are mistaken if you think factory jobs were available to this sub-set 20 years ago. Perhaps people from Beverly with only an HS education. Little has changed in this subset in 20-years: they are born into a single parent household dependent on government for their basic needs. They can’t/don’t speak proper English and dress to show rejection of societal norms (ie: laughably low baggy pants) and are unemployable.

    Sometimes they do wind up in minimum wage jobs, but aren’t likely to keep them. Like the other day one laughed at me at Wendy’s because I had a coupon. I guess the humor was lost on him that I was saving $2 and he was the one working at Wendy’s.

    Another favorite interaction was me going to the drugstore at 3am a few years back. An employee was smoking outside, the only one working, so I went in and he went in to ring me up. After being rung up he followed me outside to ask for a quarter! He is dressed up in Walgreen’s uniform and all and begging as a side job while on duty!

  67. DC says:

    “they’re forced to commit petty, and often felony, crimes to make their way”

    that’s a pretty strong statement. they have no choice? they couldn’t go to school then get a job? i know the mindset is different and they don’t value an education the same way we do and have the same resources, etc. but you make it sound like they can’t do anything to help themselves and have no choice but to steal and attack people.

  68. clio says:

    “They are capable of modifying their behavior it just takes an amount of punishment in excess of what is frequently doled out by our criminal justice system.”

    These are not intrinsically bad or evil people – they are kids that didn’t have a great upbringing and no good role models. What the black leaders should continue doing is reaching out to these kids to provide positive feedback, training and expose them to great role models. Unfortunately, many popular black people sing and rap about drugs, violence, etc. and many political leaders are too busy fighting racism without understanding the reasons many people react negatively to certain races. I really don’t think punishment is the answer – it will just perpetuate and amplify the anger these poor lost souls already must feel/experience.

  69. Bob says:

    “I really don’t think punishment is the answer – it will just perpetuate and amplify the anger these poor lost souls already must feel/experience.”

    I’d rather they do serious time for crimes like these wildings. Someone in jail for drug possession, on the other hand, I don’t think is nearly as to society as these people. We are locking up the wrong kind of people.

  70. DC says:

    “I really don’t think punishment is the answer ”

    Why not punish them when they commit crimes AND provide positive support and role models? Saying “they don’t know any better” does not give them the right to abuse people

  71. Bob says:

    “Saying “they don’t know any better””

    They know better. They are just angry that their father wasn’t present growing up. It could be a number of reasons why this is but one of the easiest one’s to fix is the government discourages marriage among this set the way welfare payments are doled out. It should be the exact opposite with increased support IF they are married.

  72. clio says:

    why don’t we send them to the middle east – they obviously have the energy and mentality to do what soldiers do – and… if they get out of line, then…. well let’s just say things can be taken care of pretty easily and fast.

  73. EB says:

    I don’t think the layout on this place is as bad as some say. Paint will help immensely. The stove needs to be moved to the island and the island should be extended a little bit (or cabinets need to be put in somewhere else).

    That said, taxes are pretty high and there is no parking and no elevator and this isn’t the most awesome location in Wrigleyville . . . . I think this can sell for $180 to 190, but I personally do not think that is a great deal and would not want to pay that much for it. At that price really what’s the upside?

  74. homedelete says:

    There’s an entire area of philosophy called predeterminism that basically spells out why the wildings act like they do. As my college roommate once said, “Free will nothing more than an antiquated notion.” Beyond that there is fatalism but I’m not going down that road quite yet.

    “but you make it sound like they can’t do anything to help themselves and have no choice but to steal and attack people.”

  75. DC says:

    “There’s an entire area of philosophy called predeterminism”

    Is that the same as determinism? If you believe in that then why bother arguing anything ever, if everything is already determined and can’t be changed?

  76. gringozecarioca says:

    My place outside of Rio, they have no resources, and even less tolerance, someone causing problems, police just strap em to a tree and shoot em.

    End of problem.

  77. Phil says:

    “My place outside of Rio, they have no resources, and even less tolerance, someone causing problems, police just strap em to a tree and shoot em.

    End of problem.”

    Sounds like a good place to host the Olympics.

  78. gringozecarioca says:

    “Sounds like a good place to host the Olympics.”

    Well how else are they going to clean this place up for the World Cup and the Olympics?

  79. Russ says:

    The biggest issue is lack of role models, broken homes, etc. Most of these kids probably have some seriously screwed up lives at home, poor schools, and no one around to give them some real direction in their lives (other than studio gangsta rap artist and other thugs). It very much is a problem of liberal policies that have all but destroyed the family structure of low income blacks. Concentrated poverty, poor schools, single parenting, etc.

    An entire generation has been lost.

    Instead of throwing these kids in jail first, the best society could do is put them in the military to teach some discipline and give them some stability in their lives.

  80. Bob says:

    Just saw the mugshots of the three arrested. These aren’t south siders–likely kids from the burbs. One wearing a Nike zip up fleece, one an Abercrombie shirt and one a Hollister shirt.

    They’d get their clocks cleaned wearing those clothes in many south side neighborhoods (and their clothes expropriated from them).

  81. Bob says:

    “It very much is a problem of liberal policies that have all but destroyed the family structure of low income blacks. ”

    I can’t believe in our country you get more welfare/government assistance money if you aren’t married. Who gave these liberals the right to play God?

  82. ltcaffey says:

    Sun times story lists south side addresses for three arrested.

  83. jenny says:

    I feel sorry for the people in these neighborhoods who try to make it out and do well for themselves. I do not have any sympathy or pity for jerks who steal from people who work hard to get their belongings. Sorry… I don’t really like working either and if someone is going to steal something I worked hard to get, I have no sympathy or concern. Send them to prison for a long time. Let them rot. I don’t care as long as it is proven that they actually committed the crime and we’re not locking an innocent person up.

  84. WHY is there no bathtub in the only bath? Contrary to modern myth, some of us still do love a sit-down soak. Also, bath is way too dark.

    Place looks like it needs work all around.

    Buyer pretty much got what he paid for, but not a great bargain.

  85. anon (tfo) says:

    “Just saw the mugshots of the three arrested. These aren’t south siders”

    As Tom Cruise pointed out, they all have southside addresses.

  86. Dave M says:

    Why don’t we just deport these people, or send them to Afghanistan or something? And I don’t mean as soldiers.

  87. jenny says:

    Laura, I agree with you. I would hate to live without a bathtub. I’m fine with a bathtub/shower combo, but I am not keen on just having a shower.

  88. anon (tfo) says:

    “Why don’t we just deport these people, or send them to Afghanistan or something? And I don’t mean as soldiers.”

    The Constitution? Just a thought.

  89. Dave M says:

    We could always send them to Gitmo for a week. That may scare them a bit.

  90. Bob says:

    “The Constitution? Just a thought.”

    LOL our government has been getting pretty good at ignoring that pesky document as of lately.

    Bombing Libyans while ignoring the already unconstitutional war powers act? Just a thought.

  91. Dave M says:

    Don’t they have military schools anymore for bad kids that are high school age? Send them there. It would be much cheaper than prison in the long term.

  92. anon (tfo) says:

    “Bombing Libyans”

    Just not deemed an act of war:

    ‘The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States’

    besides, aren’t we in a permanent state of war with the War on Terror?

    “while ignoring the already unconstitutional war powers act? ”

    If you deem the WPA unconstitutional, then you are allowing the Prez *more* unfettered power.

  93. Bob says:

    “If you deem the WPA unconstitutional, then you are allowing the Prez *more* unfettered power.”

    Nope. Before WPA president couldn’t do squat without congressional approval. Unless he’s commanding volunteer armies who bring all of their own supplies and provide all of their own transportation. And require no assistance other than moral support.

  94. anon (tfo) says:

    “Nope. Before WPA president couldn’t do squat without congressional approval. Unless he’s commanding volunteer armies who bring all of their own supplies and provide all of their own transportation. And require no assistance other than moral support.”

    So you believe that the current Congress wouldn’t “support the troops”? You’re more delusional than Heitman ever was.

  95. Bob says:

    “Don’t they have military schools anymore for bad kids that are high school age? Send them there. It would be much cheaper than prison in the long term.”

    Costs $$$. They’re also pretty good schools too from what I’ve heard, so rewarding bad kids with a high-quality, discipline instilling education…hmm. Also ever since a kid died in some jail-like bootcamp not too long ago not sure it’s as legally tenable anymore.

    Also you’d have to get the parents to buy into this. And the kids (who do have influence on their parents. And a lot of these kids were brought into this world to provide some meaning for the life of their mother’s–not sure they’d want to separate.

    There’s also a risk if there are behavioral problems brought on by them thinking they’re abandoned by their father, imagine what could mitigate if they think it’s true of both parents.

    There have already been success stories about prep schools on the south side. I think the thing is it’s such a vast place and those schools are the exception rather than norm.

  96. Chris M says:

    Come on guys, Zillow says this place is worth $309,500–this is a steal!

  97. ltcaffey says:

    If gold coast millionaires keep fighting tax hikes to pay for things like summer jobs programs they are going to keep getting visits from broke teenagers with nothing to do.

  98. Russ says:

    Bob, it probably doesn’t cost anymore to send these kids to the military as it does jail. At least with the military, they have a high success of turning people’s lives around versus prison which is just a minor league farm system for more thuggery. Judges can give them two choices. Military or jail. It really isn’t that hard. All these kids need is guidance and discipline and adults who have high expectations of them. This isn’t rocket science.

    The problem will never be solved because the institutional barriers prevent any real change from happening on a large scale. Urban Prep is a good start and that model works (based largely on the success of Morehouse College which has been educating the best and brightest black men for 146 years). Teachers unions would have a shit fit if Rahm were to some how engineer all male academies all over the south/west sides similar to Urban Prep.

  99. anon (tfo) says:

    “Teachers unions would have a shit fit if Rahm were to some how engineer all male academies all over the south/west sides similar to Urban Prep.”

    And Rahm would tell them to pound sand, as they’ve been participating in the f*&^ing up of the system for those kids for 40 years. If they want to be part of a solution or have another idea, great, if not, get out of the way.

  100. Bob says:

    “Teachers unions ”

    The unions are getting castrated in other states, albeit not without kicking and screaming. There is hope on the horizon, but it will probably take awhile in places like Chicago.

    Also the mainstream media’s lock on affecting popular opinion is waning: bastions of liberalism like the NYT are losing subscribers in droves. The old grey lady is on her deathbed.

  101. Russ says:

    Hopefully, Rahm won’t be so beholden to them and will make some real and revolutionary changes. I won’t hold my breath…

  102. anon (tfo) says:

    “Hopefully, Rahm won’t be so beholden to them and will make some real and revolutionary changes. I won’t hold my breath…”

    During the campaign, he met with union leaders; later that day the endorsed Chico. His education platform was primarily “more charter schools”–he’s gotten beaten up for being *too much* in favor of more charters.

    Whether that will result in real and/or revolutionary change is a different question, but thus far, all his education agenda has been about getting leverage to make the unions do things his way.

  103. Bob says:

    Unit #4RS still listed with an ask price of 199k. Owner is playing games with the MLS as it shows a listing time of only 28 days, lol.

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