Get a 3-Bedroom in North Center for Under $50,000: 3301 N. Oakley

This bank owned 3-bedroom at 3301 N. Oakley in North Center has been on and off the market since at least February 2010.

3301-n-oakley-_1.jpg

At one point, it was listed for $155,000 before being withdrawn.

It recently came back on the market for just $49,900.

The building has 3 units and was converted into condos in 2007.

All 3 units are currently bank owned.  Neither Unit #1 or Unit #2 has resold.

Unit #1:

  • Sold in February 2007 for $365,000
  • Bank owned as of May 2010
  • Not on the market

Unit #2:

  • Sold in February 2007 for $389,000
  • Bank owned as of October 2009
  • Not on the market

From the pictures, it appears that the kitchen cabinets are intact in Unit #3, but there are no appliances.

It also looks like a duplex up.

The listing says it has central air. There is no mention of washer/dryer or parking (although there is a 2-car garage on the property.)

Neither of the other two units is currently on the market.

The bank has owned Unit #3 for over 2 years.

Would it make sense to just sell all 3 at the same time (perhaps for the land value?)

Who will buy this one unit when the other two are also bank owned?

3301-n-oakley-_3.jpg

3301-n-oakley-_2.jpg

Jason Shapiro at Rising Realty LLC has the listing. See the pictures here.

Unit #3: 3 bedrooms, 1.5 baths, listing says 900 square feet (???)

  • Sold in February 2007 for $259,000
  • Lis pendens filed in August 2008
  • Bank owned in June 2009
  • Was listed in February 2010 for $155,000
  • Withdrawn
  • Currently listed for $49,900
  • Assessment isn’t listed (no home owners association- most likely)
  • Taxes of $4071
  • Central Air
  • Bedroom #1: 10×10
  • Bedroom #2: 10×10
  • Bedroom #3: 10×10 (I don’t think these are correct as all the room sizes are 10×10)

288 Responses to “Get a 3-Bedroom in North Center for Under $50,000: 3301 N. Oakley”

  1. Wow. This is the stuff that really needs to be deconverted.

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  2. So is this the coach house or what?

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  3. This doesn’t make sense to me – although it seems like a great buy, it also could be a huge waste of 50k – however, if you could at least live here for 4 years, you would at least break even on the rent (even if you lost all 50k).

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  4. Does the same bank own all three? If so, just make an offer for all three and rent them. No way would I live there with the empty’s. However, if one has political ambitions, you would have a guaranteed spot as president of the association.

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  5. I would buy it & then hold out for a higher offer from a developer who wants the land or whole thing.

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  6. “I would buy it & then hold out for a higher offer from a developer who wants the land or whole thing.”

    You would be holding for a long long long time. No developer is going to touch this particular building.

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  7. Clio stuff is still going up in nice areas. This may be a little too far west tho.

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  8. Bob – nobody has money. Stuff that is going up right now is fueled by knifecatchers who can’t accept that real estate (esp in chicago) is in deep deep trouble.

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  9. Clio the people building the spec house on the 1700 block of Fletcher got money from somewhere.

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  10. clio – everybody has money. you yourself admitted your neighbors have net worths in the millions.

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  11. Are you guys under the imperius curse?

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  12. I spotted this place when it was listed at $85,000, I thought they had the address wrong or something, but it seems right. It’s actually in the Bell school district which has to be worth $50k alone. I’m guessing nobody has bought this place because it’s not what it seems. I know I didn’t even bother trying to go see it because I was pretty sure it would be a waste of time.

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  13. “It’s actually in the Bell school district which has to be worth $50k alone.”

    No, it’s not (had to beat anon to this). Prob audubon, but I haven’t checked.

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  14. Audubon…not Bell.

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  15. “No, it’s not (had to beat anon to this). Prob audubon, but I haven’t checked.”

    Think you’re right … checking … yep, solidly in Audubon. Location will be much better when the viaduct comes down.

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  16. Some anecdotal evidence that there are still plenty of people with money.

    Two places over a million went under contract in the span of a week in my neighborhood recently, neither was on for longer than a month. Another property actually went for 5k over list on an 800k single family home and it sold in 10 days.

    There are two more than million dollar properties under construction on the same block. The developer bought a double lot and is construction two single families.

    I live in West Lakeview/North Center.

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  17. YOu all make it seem like every rat infested, moldy basement fire gutted 1 bedroom garden apartment in the Bell school district is worth $50k more simply because it is in Bell. Let me tell you something, the bell school isn’t filled with children living with single moms or dads in one or two bedroom condos; it’s filled with the children of wealthy, high income professionals living in large, well kept expensive homes. I would go as far as saying that the numnber of children attending bell who live in small condos or rental apartments is very small, maybe even negligible. So for units like this, the school district is completely irrelevant. Put this unit in teh LIncoln school district, sure, some children attend lincoln and live in condos or apartments, but not bell. Get real.

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  18. See trudi’s comment above regarding homes selling in the bell district. Those omes are probably filled with lots of smart, competitive children who will go on to do things in the world.

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  19. Per the school locator site-it’s in Audubon, not Bell.
    If it were in Bell it could be a great investment-but who knows what is wrong with this building and what lurks beneath the vinyl siding.

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  20. “I would go as far as saying that the numnber of children attending bell who live in small condos or rental apartments is very small, maybe even negligible. So for units like this, the school district is completely irrelevant.”

    That’s a fallacy of something or other. Even if kids in such units were a small percentage of attendance (I don’t really know), doesn’t *necessarily* mean the units wouldn’t have value b/c of the school. Having said that, it has struck me that rents for a basic 2 flat unit don’t seem to have much of a premium compared to e.g. Logan. I’d have thought it would have some significant appeal to e.g. a less well off family or single parent wanting a good school for kid.

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  21. HD with that kind of demographic familiarity how much have you been budgeting for candy to give away out o that windowless van of yours???

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  22. “I would go as far as saying that the numnber of children attending bell who live in small condos or rental apartments is very small, maybe even negligible.”

    I think you are wrong, HD, but it does seem that the view of what really goes on in CPS improves with distance, so maybe Ze can weigh in with the real truth.

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  23. Ack my mistake, I’m getting it confused with another place on Campbell. Although Audubon is still a highly sought after school isn’t it?

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  24. HD…The homes I am referencing are not in Bell.

    Three in Hamilton and Two in Blaine.

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  25. I am not wrong. DZ above even said that rents in NC ‘don’t have much of a premium’ compared to Logan. There are only 950 kids attending Bell. The population density of NC is 15,000 per sq mile. Do the math. Schools only matter for those with children. Many renters in bell and squalid condo buyers don’t have children and don’t care about the school. SFH are a total premium purely because they tend to have children living in them and school becomes important.

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  26. “clio – everybody has money. you yourself admitted your neighbors have net worths in the millions.”

    ,……and rapidly falling. Taxes are going to skyrocket – expenses are ridiculous (maint. expenses on my house are over 4k/month). My neighbors and I could tolerate that when our houses were going up in value – but now, they have depreciated to below our mortgage levels and now repairs on these mansions have become intolerable.

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  27. If a family wanted Bell (and this place was in Bell), why not just buy this place and let it sit? $50,000 is just two years of tuition at a private school.

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  28. danny (lower case D) on August 1st, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Seriously! What in the hell happened here??? In February 2007, unit 1 sold for $365k and unit 2 sold for $389k.

    How does it go from these prices to worthless in 4 years? There has to be some back story (e.g. FRAUD) involved. It just makes no sense otherwise.

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  29. “(maint. expenses on my house are over 4k/month)”

    Bullshit.

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  30. NON COMPLAINERS – Is this worth the investment. Seems like you can’t go wrong with $50K. Some people’s credit card bills are more than that. Any serious thoughts. Please no complaining… just No not worth it because a, b, c. or worth it because a, b, c.

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  31. anon(tfo) you supposedly live in a SFH in a coveted CPS school dist. How many renter children do your children associate with?

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  32. “I am not wrong. DZ above even said that rents in NC ‘don’t have much of a premium’ compared to Logan.”

    First of all, if you’re going to put something in quotes, please actually quote. You left out “seem”. This is based on having seen rents for a couple places in Bell.

    Second, even if I were right (and also right as to condo rather than rentals), it does not mean that there aren’t a lot of kids in small apt/condos attending Bell as neighborhood school. That’s a reverse/inverse/converse fallacy of something or other.

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  33. I’ll be this place is in housing court with a myriad of violations. I’d bet one of the units is illegal.

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  34. ” Seems like you can’t go wrong with $50K.”

    This is how you can lose on this 50k “investment”:

    The building falls apart (secondary to improper maint.). If you are the sole owner and have to take care of maint. – this could cost thousands and thousands of dollars (burst pipes, insurance, roof replacement, siding replacement – good luck getting far with the banks).

    All you have to do is talk to some condo owners in Florida to understand this concept.

    Honestly, don’t buy this place – you will regret it!!

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  35. THERE ARE ONLY 950 CHILDREN AT BELL. only a very very small portion of north center residents actually have children attending Bell. I’d bet that most of the children live in SFH and have parents in household who earn north of $100k a year. It’s ridiculous to think that some dumpy one bedroom in bell, or a flat in a two flat rented by some post-college grads from U of Iowa are going ot give to shits about ‘bell’ district in their vintage dumpy squalid apartment. The premium only applies to SFH in my opinion . The logic on this board defies common sense sometimes. You all get tihs idea stuck in your head ‘bell has a premium’ and apply that rule strictly with no exception or interpretation. Any premium for the area, in rents or condo prices, could easily be attributed to other factors, like location to public trans, great neighborhood, the larger size of the units, or any # of reasons.

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  36. “How does it go from these prices to worthless in 4 years? There has to be some back story (e.g. FRAUD) involved. It just makes no sense otherwise.”

    The other two units closed in Mar-07 and had LP filed by the same lender (Maxum Mortgage) in Aug-08. Both are now owned by ClearVue Opportunity Fund XII LLC (appears not registered in IL, appears no other Cook County properties) in Jul-10, with $83,500 stated on one deed, $0 on the other.

    This unit was financed by Martin Mortgage, sold to Citi, transferred to Fannie, back to Citi, who still appears to own it.

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  37. “anon(tfo) you supposedly live in a SFH in a coveted CPS school dist. How many renter children do your children associate with?”

    My son’s three “best” friends’ families all rent within walking distance of our house. Put that in your pipe and smoke it (maybe we’ll go back thru the looking glass then).

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  38. ““(maint. expenses on my house are over 4k/month)”

    Bullshit.”

    Here is a typical breakdown:

    1. Heat/Gas: 1500-2000/month – this includes heating/airconditioning over 8000 sq feet (triple zoned), pool mechanicals, and 190 outdoor lights.

    2. Pool costs: 6k/year (500/month) – this doesn’t include any repairs.

    3. Lawn Maint.: (2500/season) = 250/month plus 1500 for spring and fall cleanup

    4. snow removal: (250/snowfall – 10 showfalls = 2500/season = 250/month.

    5. minimal flowers: 1200/year (this is not even that much) = 100/month

    6. Bulb replacement (1800/year) = 150/month

    7. Tree/shrub replacement/tree trimming/storm damage(averaged over 7 years): 3000/year – minimum (I spent over 8k this year alone on storm clean up).

    8. Bark Mulch (every 3 years it costs 3000) – so 1000/year.

    9. Seal Coating: 1500 (every 3 years) – 500/year

    10. Driveway gate maint. – 500/year.

    The list goes on and on – and this is just EXTERIOR MAINT. without any true improvements!!!!

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  39. anon(Tfo) you’re a liar.

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  40. danny (lower case D) on August 1st, 2011 at 11:35 am

    Thanks anon for that info. The whole building appears to be a steaming pile of crap… a hot potato tossed back and forth among the lenders.

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  41. underwater homeowners are all just renting from teh bank anyways!

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  42. “1. Heat/Gas: 1500-2000/month – this includes heating/airconditioning over 8000 sq feet (triple zoned), pool mechanicals, and 190 outdoor lights.”

    I wasn’t considering utilities as “maintenance”.

    “6. Bulb replacement (1800/year) = 150/month”

    Huh?

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  43. “anon(Tfo) you’re a liar.”

    No, I’m not. You want to come over and meet them sometime? I could prolly arrange it, but it would likely be easier after school starts.

    But, there really isn’t much, if any, rental premium based on the attendance area, which I have always found odd.

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  44. “anon(Tfo) you’re a liar.”
    HD, add “hypocrite” to the mix too and you’d sound like G…lol

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  45. ““6. Bulb replacement (1800/year) = 150/month”

    Huh?”

    He has 190 outdoor lights, which someone charges him ~$10/blub to replace. He does get the bulb thrown in for free.

    I’ve previously suggested switching to LEDs, but apparently was ignored.

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  46. “Thanks anon for that info. The whole building appears to be a steaming pile of crap… a hot potato tossed back and forth among the lenders.”

    Highest and best is selling to the vulture, and both sides know it; Citi likely listed it as negotiating tactic; only a complete fool would buy into this association as it stands today.

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  47. “6. Bulb replacement (1800/year) = 150/month”

    Can we see your house from outer space? Cuz that would be worth it

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  48. anon’s claims conflict with what HD’s boots on the ground (or better yet mustache in windowless van) experience. Lmfao

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  49. Clio lives on a couple of acres in Oak brook, not a 125×25 lot in north center. I’m quite frankly surprised his expenses are not double or triple that. I’ve heard stories and known people with similarly sized estates on the north shore and they have live-in staff who are on call to fix these types of things. They’re called groundskeepers and the like, the handyman that lives in teh coach house with his girlfriend the nanny etc.

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  50. bob – you fucking asshole. why do you keep making pedo jokes about me you fucking freak. that’s totally unwarranted adn I’m going to call you out for it you douche.

    at least i have a wife and a kid. what the hell do you have besides your right hand or the 40 yo with herpes at the end of the bar ’round closing time?

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  51. “6. Bulb replacement (1800/year) = 150/month”

    maybe tulip bulbs inmported in from holland which are installed by an actual Dutchman wearing wooden shoes?

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  52. “Clio lives on a couple of acres in Oak brook, not a 125×25 lot in north center. ”

    I live on more than 2 acres, and my expenses aren’t even 1/2 of that. I’ve got an irrigation system with 24 zones and tons of plantings, etc. Takes 30 yards of mulch every year.

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  53. “My son’s three “best” friends’ families all rent within walking distance of our house. Put that in your pipe and smoke it (maybe we’ll go back thru the looking glass then).”

    how much is said rent should be the real question ;) or what is being rented the first question

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  54. chuk: duh. clio’s allegedly a doctor or involved in the medical profession. he might take x-rays, i don’t know. regardless, medical people find ways to waste money. you should know better than this. as soon as your hear ‘doctor’ it’s like knowing they’re flushing money down the toilet. because for these people, money is not hard to come by.

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  55. I am being an a-hole cuz it’s obvious to me you are talking your book on this whole decent school districts shouldn’t command any sort of premium on condos. Its a premium you will suck up & pay & we all know this.

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  56. clio,

    for being a “doctor” and a “real estate mogul” you have a lot of free time.
    hmmmmmmmmm?

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  57. “Takes 30 yards of mulch every year.”

    Not that you use these guys, but:

    http://www.schaefergreenhouses.com/garden-center/bulk-mulch.html

    That’s $1200 plus delivery plus labor (yeah, you might do it yourself, but…) so that’s one number you back up.

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  58. “how much is said rent should be the real question ;) or what is being rented the first question”

    Not SFHs. Dunno what their rent is, b/c I’m not like that.

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  59. Oh yeah & the last 40+ye old I hooked up with was an alkie milf (err midf) lawyer. And it was before sunset. Lawyers got probs generally speaking. Dunno what they do to you guys when the doors close in them law school classes.

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  60. “I am being an a-hole cuz it’s obvious to me you are talking your book on this whole decent school districts shouldn’t command any sort of premium on condos. Its a premium you will suck up & pay & we all know this.”

    To be fair, he’s saying there’s a premium on SFH but not on condos. He’s looking for SFH (at least he wants to be). Mostly, he just seems abnormally intemperate today. Maybe he should just rent in Bell. Problems solved!

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  61. gringozecarioca on August 1st, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    What an angry Monday here…

    Wouldn’t be unfair to depreciate along some schedule things like new boilers, roof, re-painting and re-sealing, etc…

    4k/mo sounds within reason.

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  62. “That’s $1200 plus delivery plus labor (yeah, you might do it yourself, but…) so that’s one number you back up.”

    Yes, and his breakdown is more reasonable than what he originally stated. He said 4k a month in maintenance. If you take out utilities (which I don’t consider maintenance), his numbers are closer to 2k. That is more reasonable (but still high IMO). Some of his numbers are still inflated ($250 for snow removal).

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  63. Bob: talking book, hahahah! it’s based upon logical and empirical evidence, and a little common sense, that a 1 bedroom or a vintage dumpy two flat in North Center is going to command a premium because it happens to be located within the boundaries of a decent elementary school. SFH, that’s a different story. A family of 1/2/3 children has a choice between Jahn or Bell, and well, bell is desirable, so when they go looking of homes the home in the bell school dist will be more expensive – because the school is one of the primary concerns for teh SFH owner in the bell district. But the *average* or even a large majority of renters? like they give a flying f**k if it’s bell/jahn/audobon/blaine etc. there are tens of thousands of people in NC, and the population density is 15,000 people PER SQAURE MILE. Yet there are less than 1000 children attending bell. most people other than SFH home buyers specifically shopping for schools don’t care.

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  64. “maybe tulip bulbs inmported in from holland which are installed by an actual Dutchman wearing wooden shoes?”

    this would also be worth it

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  65. gringozecarioca on August 1st, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    “Dunno what they do to you guys when the doors close in them law school classes.”

    Come to think of it, why do they make them burn 90+hr weeks either? Is seeing if they can ‘break’ the new guy part of it? I would think they have all the resources to hire more people. Does this eventually oversplit the pie?

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  66. DZ he is an overpreppy I doubt his progeny is anywhere near school age. He should get a Xanax prescription now & rent in bell when the time comes. Or buy even.

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  67. sorry, is NOT going to command a premium.

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  68. There are a million lawyers, but, the number of top lawyers from top law schools remains constant and limited. therefore instead of splitting the pie, they make the top lawyers from teh top schools work an inordinate # of hours. I am not one of those lawyers.

    “I would think they have all the resources to hire more people. Does this eventually oversplit the pie?”

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  69. “Not SFHs. Dunno what their rent is, b/c I’m not like that.”

    ok, just checking/pulling on a chain

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  70. My lunch break is over, I have to clock back in. I have to return to the factory floor. See you all at the bar afterwork!

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  71. Groove:

    I know. No worries.

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  72. “he is an overpreppy I doubt his progeny is anywhere near school age.”

    He has said his kid is just an infant. I think moody HD is a combo of work situation, unpleasant bbqs, no sleep at home w/baby, pressure of maintaining bizzaro HD persona (which is increasingly breaking down), etc.

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  73. Zero the 90hr workweeks do well for those at the top as it keeps the population much smaller who aren’t partner material who have to be forcibly dismissed. Awkward conversations those are. Just let most burn out on their own & then you don’t even have to pay their unemployment insurance/rates stay low.

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  74. gringozecarioca on August 1st, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    ““I would think they have all the resources to hire more people. Does this eventually oversplit the pie?””

    Thanks for the response, figured that was the only thing that made sense. For me it was the former.

    ..and people are just jokin with you… take it all in good fun.

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  75. Err ze. My autocorrect doesn’t think so highly of you! :D

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  76. Focus people: 3 BR, North Center, under $50K. I agree with HD…lots of people don’t give a darn about school districts, me included. But an empty building, bank-owned units, bizarre financing trail. These are the things I’d like to hear some hypotheses, not how much it costs to maintain somebody’s house in the suburbs.

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  77. If someone wants a particular CPS school, why not rent the cheapest apartment available so you can get your kids into that school? With private schools costing over $20,000, isn’t it more cost effective?

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  78. “He has said his kid is just an infant. I think moody HD is a combo of work situation, unpleasant bbqs, no sleep at home w/baby, pressure of maintaining bizzaro HD persona (which is increasingly breaking down), etc.”

    its inner conflict of fake HD and the real HD, with the heat it all boiled inside and fused. what we have now is HD version 3.0 that we will call pre-postal HD.

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  79. “There are a million lawyers, but, the number of top lawyers from top law schools remains constant and limited.”

    I was looking at some profiles for a chicago office a while ago and surprised how many associates were from outside top 5 or even top 10 schools.

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  80. “If someone wants a particular CPS school, why not rent the cheapest apartment available so you can get your kids into that school?”

    new to the “chicago way” huh? surprised since you *grew up here.

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  81. “If someone wants a particular CPS school, why not rent the cheapest apartment available so you can get your kids into that school? With private schools costing over $20,000, isn’t it more cost effective?”

    I know some people play games with this, but your school is supposed to be based on where you live. You would have to actually live there if you were following rules.

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  82. Northcenter is increasingly on my radar. 10 minutes to Logan, 10 Minutes to wicker, 15 to UK village, good schools, great for kids. The problem as this listinbg illustrates is you either have 1 million dollar homes, poor quality rental or condo units, or mid-range flats on busy streets.

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  83. I should rent a 3 bedroom in a good school district & sublease to phantom roommates that are parents needing the address. 250$/mo /family x 10 families & ill even do mail forwarding!

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  84. And the million dollar homes sell like johnny’s johnny cakes in the sopranos.

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  85. Yes but many of those homes don’t feel like Million dollar homes, at all.

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  86. “clio,

    for being a “doctor” and a “real estate mogul” you have a lot of free time.”

    Don’t worry – I have several personalities which helps me to multitask!!!

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  87. jason: they don’t feel like million dollar homes but you pay a premium for the bell district. why can no one else see this? let me guess jason you too have children and are looking for a SFH; you have no interest in a small condo or a midrange rental on a busy street. you want what most other families have, and there’s a premium for that.

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  88. “I should rent a 3 bedroom in a good school district & sublease to phantom roommates that are parents needing the address. 250$/mo /family x 10 families & ill even do mail forwarding!”

    That is illegal and you will go to jail. The whole world has become uber-sensitive to everything. You can pretty much going to jail for looking at someone the wrong way. Don’t even entertain these thoughts….. (for your own good).

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  89. The whitiest are willing to overpay through the nose to give their offspring any perceived advantage in life. It mostly doesn’t work & the apple stays near the tree. (ie if mommy was the passed around sorority gal chances are lil princess will grow up to too). But if they want to drop 7 figures for a wood frame house let them. I see these spec houses being constructed they ain’t all that!

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  90. “Don’t worry – I have several personalities which helps me to multitask!!!”

    is it labeled “personalities” on the W2’s?

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  91. I want my 5 year old to have his friends close, but I want the same. North center is one of the areas that may fit both our needs.

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  92. “I was looking at some profiles for a chicago office a while ago and surprised how many associates were from outside top 5 or even top 10 schools.”

    That’s because most of us who graduate from top 10 schools, wise up and move on to better paying jobs (banks, business) or leave for better quality of life (professors, government). The worst job in law is an associate at BIGLAW. You only stay if you want to be the big partner — 20 years later — or you pay your debts, save like mad, and have an exit strategy.

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  93. All the lawyers I know are secretly unhappy.

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  94. You see most of you on here are predictable & are chasing the same thing. Don’t bitterly complain when prices don’t come down FOR YOU. All the other whitiest with the same groupthink will assure the prices remain high.

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  95. Jason: north centers fits the needs of nearly every child in the city of chicago. that’s why it is so god damn expensive and some of the highest earning chicagoans choose to purchase a single family home there. It’s on everyone’s radar, including mine, but that doesn’t mean it is realistic for the masses. The neighborhood is filled with doctors, bankers, lawyers, architects, and other high income earning professionals. Nearly everyone wants to live there,and it is a suitable alternative to the ‘suburbs’ so it commands a hefty hefty premium. and its not dropping in price either. face it, there are bankers and other types out there who gross $15 or $20k A MONTH and have amassed massive down payments, and there is a seemingly large supply of them too. i can’t afford that area, and I don’t pretend like I can. However, I would live there in a heartbeat if I could, and so would probably 99% of the posters on this board.

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  96. You see most of “THE UNDERWATER agent/investors” on here are predictable & are chasing the same thing. Don’t bitterly complain when “buyers” don’t come around FOR YOU.–:)

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  97. Homedelete: I wouldn’t want to live in NorthCenter. Yuck, why would you live in NorthCenter when you can live in Lincoln Park or Old Town? Count me as the 1% that wouldn’t live in NorthCenter in a “heartbeat”. My heart definitley doesn’t beat for NorthCenter.

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  98. “I wouldn’t want to live in NorthCenter. Yuck, why would you live in NorthCenter when you can live in Lincoln Park or Old Town? Count me as the 1% that wouldn’t live in NorthCenter in a “heartbeat”. My heart definitley doesn’t beat for NorthCenter.”

    BettyBoop, i take it you dont have kids.

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  99. My point exactly. Why spend 1,000,000 three blocks from Western, when you can spend 1,000,000 three blocks from LP? North Center is nice, but not perfect. It is a compromise hood and I think ’04-’07 buyers don’t get that.

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  100. NOT COMPARABLE. The north center $1,000,000 buys you a bonafide SFH to call your own. The $1,000,000 in LP buys you a row home in need of updates in the coveted Lincoln school district. The two are not comparable.

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  101. “All the lawyers I know are secretly unhappy.”

    If you only know *secretly* unhappy lawyers, you don’t know very many lawyers.

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  102. First, I probably don’t need to spell out into which percentage category I fall.

    Second, I think there are quite a few lawyers who would disagree with the claim that “The worst job in law is an associate at BIGLAW.” There are thousands of lawyers, many of whom have been practicing for several years, who are expected to bill upwards of 2,000 (at places where doing so entails a lot more time in the chair than that), but who make less than half of junior associates at major firms. While it’s no walk in the park, my sense is that the pervassive biglaw horror stories are due, at least to some extent, to the fact that the top firms continue to hire graduates from (for the most part) the top schools who (for the most part) tend to have, shall we say, enjoyed a charmed life.

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  103. I don’t see why it’s unsavory to rent a place and leave it empty just to get into the school you want. You are paying for that place and have just as much right to send your kids there as if you actually lived in the apartment. As long as you didn’t sublet, I don’t know what the problem would be.

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  104. Bell is overcrowded.

    Jason the reason you cannot find something you like is because there are 100 families vying for the same thing. Do some work on lot value + construction put in place and you will see why $1M+ homes cost what they do, and why people do pay for them. Solid construction, really solid construction, is hard to find.

    The rentals don’t have a premium because they are rentals, and generally do not fit the bill for yuppie satisfaction. Also, families like some permanency and rentals arent that. Some rentals are effectively SFHs that have not been converted.

    There have been an unprecedented number of double lot annexes on coveted streets in Lake View within the last few months, and of course they are in good school districts. That is the sort of dynamic cyber-stalking and CCRD snooping won’t offer you, but it exists in just about every nice north side neighborhood. All about one-upping the Joneses I’d suppose. As much as I think of Lake View as a dumpy version of Lincoln Park, it’s got some serious loyalty among what must be some wealthy families, particularly in the good school districts (even though I am sure many are sending to private anyway).

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  105. Groove 77– Bell isn’t the only good school in the city. Have you heard of Abe Lincoln school? Or just live anywhere and send your kids private. Like the Mayor.

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  106. “I don’t know what the problem would be.”

    Of course you don’t.

    But you don’t “have just as much right to send your kids there as if you actually lived in the apartment”, as school attendance is based on *actual* residence, not where you own or rent property. The question is only if you might/will get caught and what the consequences are.

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  107. “It is a compromise hood and I think ‘04-’07 buyers don’t get that.”

    I disagree that North Center is a compromise hood 100%. Take your kid, if you have one, trick or treating down Bradley Pl one Halloween and then consider your statement later this year. People trip over themselves to live there, and they stay there for very long periods of time. Some pretty interesting and politically connected families live there as well.

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  108. “enjoyed a charmed life”

    No previous work experience and a salaried job offer for 160k in a safe upscale office environment at age 25? Textbook definition of it.

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  109. “BettyBoop, i take it you dont have kids.”

    I’m not so sure that raising kids in the city in a SFH a mile or two west of the lake is automatically superior to raising them in a condo, townhome or rowhouse within a few blocks of the park/lakefront. Personally, while though I did place a premium on quick access to the lakefront trail before I had a kid, it’s having a kid that has caused me to place a particular premium on quick access to the park. Yes, yes. I’d love to be able to have my kid grow up with a basement family/media room, a gator deck and a small yard – a wonderous magical kingdom right in the “city,” one to and from which we would pretty much always drive. Alas, for now, my poor kid is stuck with a communal backyard, sharing the boring old confines of the beach, park and zoo with everybody else.

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  110. “You can pretty much going to jail for looking at someone the wrong way. Don’t even entertain these thoughts….”

    Forget jail, in Chicago you can pretty much go to the morgue doing so in almost any neighborhood at almost any time.

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  111. “Alas, for now, my poor kid is stuck with a communal backyard, sharing the boring old confines of the beach, park and zoo with everybody else.”

    Watch out for the flash mobs. If you take him to McD, avoid Chicago Ave.

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  112. I just don’t see what difference it makes whether you actually live there or not as long as you don’t have someone else living there. Throw a few pieces of cheap furniture in the unit and how can they say you don’t live there?

    Also, if you buy a cheap property, you are paying taxes for that school, so why shouldn’t you get to send your kids there (as long as you don’t rent it out)?

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  113. “Groove 77– Bell isn’t the only good school in the city. Have you heard of Abe Lincoln school? Or just live anywhere and send your kids private. Like the Mayor.”

    BetyBoop,

    yes i know bell isnt the only game intown as i am the first to quote most NW schools are better than LP’s Abe Lincoln, Blaine, Burley.

    there is more to having kids than just the school.

    reason why all the two flats in NC are converted SFH for kids under 13.

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  114. “I just don’t see what difference it makes whether you actually live there or not as long as you don’t have someone else living there.”

    And I don’t see the point of traffic signals when there’s no cross traffic, yet you can still get a ticket at 5am on Sunday morning. It’s the way the regulation works–check into the school attendance litigation in Ohio, where using even the non-custodial parent’s *actual* residence isn’t sufficient, and some people have been nailed for it.

    Some suburban districts do actual investigative work to catch people in the lie; CPS certainly could do the same.

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  115. Anonny, you are right on the money as far as I’m concerned. I’d much rather raise my child in a smaller place but be at the lakefront and a quick cab to cultural attractions then in a single family home in a northwest side neighborhood. And frankly, a SFH is almost like another child to take care of and spend time and money on. I prefer weekends free to be with my child, not changing windows or power washing the deck.

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  116. “And frankly, a SFH is almost like another child to take care of and spend time and money on.”

    So 95% of America cannot spend time with their children? Most people live in single family detached dwellings. Somehow they have managed.

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  117. “I’d much rather raise my child in a smaller place but be at the lakefront and a quick cab to cultural attractions then in a single family home in a northwest side neighborhood”

    Have you tried to take a cab with a 2 year old? and do this on a regular basis?

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  118. “I prefer weekends free to be with my child, not changing windows or power washing the deck.”

    i prefer spending time with my child EVERYDAY not just weekends. and thats what i do in my SFH on the NW Side.

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  119. “I’m not so sure that raising kids in the city in a SFH a mile or two west of the lake is automatically superior to raising them in a condo, townhome or rowhouse within a few blocks of the park/lakefront.”

    If you are looking SFH, it’s going to cost a lot more in ELP (if you want to live there). Otherwise I agree. It’s a set of tradeoffs that will differ for different families. The zoo is v appealing, and my wife does drive there once every week or two in niceish weather, but so is going for a walk/ride around the neighborhood, getting a snack, and playing with some friends you run into on the block. I wouldn’t tell people they were wrong for picking one versus the other.

    “CPS certainly could do the same.”

    I was surprised that per my reading of CPS manual, you can stay in the attendance high school for the rest of high school even if you move out of neighborhood, as long as you stay in city.

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  120. Installing car seats in cabs is seamless. And if you have trouble, your friendly cab driver will show you how.

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  121. “Have you tried to take a cab with a 2 year old? and do this on a regular basis?”

    More than I’d care to admit.

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  122. “Have you tried to take a cab with a 2 year old? and do this on a regular basis?”

    What do people do? Just chance it w/o car seat?

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  123. “not changing windows”

    Double paned insulated glass helps here. Brilliant invention I must say.

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  124. Groove, doesn’t everybody take their children in cabs? Why is this mindblowing to you? I’m sorry but I don’t have a personal driver. I used to when we lived in KSA but those days are over now that we are back in the states.

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  125. “Have you tried to take a cab with a 2 year old? and do this on a regular basis?”
    “More than I’d care to admit.”

    W/o car seat? And why cab versus driving (if not doing public trans)?

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  126. Does nobody take a bus in this city? I only took my kid in a cab once when we lived in the Loop, when she needed to go to the ER in the middle of the night. We used to take the bus to the zoo all the time.

    Of course it seems logical that you should be able to send your kid to any school district you pay taxes in, but that would just lead to a massive amount of empty studio apartments selling for $$$ every 6-8 years, and schools full of kids that don’t live anywhere nearby. Oh and even worse traffic than now with all the kids being driven all over the place. The point of a neighborhood school is that everyone lives in the neighborhood.

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  127. Jennifer, the problem with busses is you have to go stand on the corner and wait for one. With a cab, you can call and they will come directly to your house and get you and take you exactly where you want to be. A bus of course, won’t go off their route. This is why I prefer the cab.

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  128. If taking a 2 year old in cabs regularly is a thing you can stand to do. then more power toooooo yoooooo.

    i will jump on a packed cta with a broken a/c than hop a cab in that situation.

    annony you say you do this so you know what i am talking about.

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  129. Betty Boop,

    Ever hear of the CTA BUs Tracker App? Pretty Simple.

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  130. “Groove, doesn’t everybody take their children in cabs? Why is this mindblowing to you? I’m sorry but I don’t have a personal drive”

    hence this back and forth with you is futile. we are coming from two different mindsets and experiences.

    trek around the city with a kid 4 and under in a cab many times during the week and get back to me how you feel.

    next live in a 2br townhouse in LP with 2 kids the age 4-10. then do the same in northcenter. then tell me how you feel.

    the mind blowing part of this experiment is YOUR lack of empathy neurons firing during this all

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  131. “Installing car seats in cabs is seamless. And if you have trouble, your friendly cab driver will show you how.”

    dont know the intent but i read it as ironic/sarcasm and laughed so hard i pee’d alittle

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  132. And you can’t stand on a corner for a few minutes?!

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  133. ““Have you tried to take a cab with a 2 year old? and do this on a regular basis?”
    “More than I’d care to admit.”

    W/o car seat?”

    This is an option:

    http://www.amazon.com/RideSafer-Car-Seat-Travel-Vest/dp/B000KCV61U/ref=pd_cp_ba_1

    Not necessarily a good option, but an option.

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  134. “And you can’t stand on a corner for a few minutes?!”

    Either too much, or too little, time at Harvard.

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  135. gringozecarioca on August 1st, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    ““And you can’t stand on a corner for a few minutes?!”
    Either too much, or too little, time at Harvard.”

    Empirical evidence would lead one to conclude that 231 find the internet more convenient than standing on the corner.

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  136. have you used that vest utfo? at first i thought it inflated like an airbag on impact, then i thought maybe the back was velcro and you stuck the kid to the seat. being able to velcro a 2yrold would come in handy in many situations.

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  137. Groove, you should get some of those Depends if you pee that easily. It wasn’t that funny. Jennifer, I can stand on a corner on a nice day but what about the 350 other days in Chicago? And even on a nice day, why would I stand on the corner–and why would I stand on a corner with my child when I can call a cab? Waiting for a bus isn’t great but for a kid, it’s horrible as their sense of time isn’t accurate. a 10 minute wait is like an hour for them. And certainly, wouldn’t you rather have your child wait in a nice, dry, safe house then on a rainy corner with car fumes in his little face? I feel like there is some anomisty over taking a cab as though that is some kind of epic, elitist move. Cabs are available to everyone, as are busses. Pick one. Who cares.

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  138. “Jennifer, I can stand on a corner on a nice day but what about the 350 other days in Chicago”

    then why the fuck live in a walkable hood when you cant stand on the fucking corner for 5 minutes?

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  139. Groove, hope you don’t use that kind of vulgar language around your children. And if you do, that is one reason why I wouldn’t want to live in a northwest side neighborhood–lots of riff raff that swear and rant. Keep in mind when you go off like that, your children are like sponges. That is another reason why I like cabs, no weird vulgar languaged people to deal with.

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  140. “Either too much, or too little, time at Harvard.”

    lmao…good to know someone is not pissed off on angry monday : )
    Honestly forget school quality, I am worried raising a kid in a place where people find walking a block too much, impossible to take public transport, etc…

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  141. “have you used that vest utfo?”

    I have used a version of it, several years ago. You route the seat belt through “buckles” on the vest, and there is a tether to clip into the car seat anchor on the rear deck (just like a toddler seat).

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  142. “Honestly forget school quality, I am worried raising a kid in a place where people find walking a block too much, impossible to take public transport, etc…”

    Nice knowing you, miu. Hope I can visit in NYC, or Europe, or wherever you move to.

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  143. definitely anon, you’d be welcome any time : )

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  144. “Groove, hope you don’t use that kind of vulgar language around your children”

    good try.

    take out my random f-bombs and read the premise. if that causes is you to much angst then i will retype it for you.

    “then why live in a walkable hood when you cant stand on the corner for 5 minutes?”

    you logic is flawed and i am glad they make velcro shoes, as your day is hard enough.

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  145. Groove, thanks for cleaning it up as I’m sure we all like our real estate chatter to be G rated. I can go on and on and tell you all about why I live where I live and reveal to you all of my transportation choices and try to rationalize them for you to make you happy. But honestly Groove, I don’t care about you and making you happy and you really need to not care where I live and how many cabs I take in a day. Really.

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  146. I laugh at all the city people bragging about ‘walkable communities’, but then they are clogging the streets in cabs. And ‘Oh I’m too good to take CTA’.

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  147. There are lots of vulgar cab drivers, although I suppose they usually swear in languages other than English.

    I still find buses worse than cabs, but it’s a close call. I would be very unhappy if I had to give up my car.

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  148. So back to this unit.

    If I recall the front building is owned by a different back than the coach house.

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  149. “If I recall the front building is owned by a different ba[n]k than the coach house.”

    Vulture fund has owned the front for a year, Citi owns the subject property.

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  150. Obviously it’s a personal choice but I feel like my kids are safer on a bus than they are in a cab. And there’s no way I’m raising two kids that can’t wait 5 minutes for a bus in a bit of rain.

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  151. The pictures of this unit on Redfin have completely changed since this AM. The pictures that were there when Sabrina posted this were wrong.

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  152. My kid literally asks to ride the bus.

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  153. Strange about the pictures being different…

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  154. Bettyboop,

    I am not asking you to explain or justify why you live where you do. I am asking you to explain your random statements you throw about. I would really like to know how you travel about our fair city by cab with a 2 year old frequently.
    or explain your value in walkabilty yet 5 minutes is torture.

    But anyways the world will have many more like you so I shall cancel my direct TV.

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  155. You’re right chuk!

    It’s the power of cribchatter. Maybe the listing agent realized “whoops- I put the wrong pics in there because there really ARE appliances.”

    So- it’s not a duplex either. And yes- it DOES look like 900 square feet from the “new” pictures.

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  156. “Vulture fund has owned the front for a year, Citi owns the subject property.”

    Why doesn’t the “vulture fund” (your words) just buy the unit from the other bank for $50k and be done with it? The land if more valuable than the structure (even in this location.)

    If they build a new house on it- someone WILL buy it (even if it’s not in Bell.)

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  157. By the way- HD is pretty much correct about who is buying the condos in these neighborhoods with “good” schools. It’s not people with kids because if that were true, we would see all those 2 and 3-bedroom condos selling like hotcakes for $425k in Blaine and I can’t tell you how many units I see for sale there- and with most of the sellers losing a ton of cash.

    Why are they selling?

    To move to the suburbs! They are NOT staying in their 1800 square foot duplex down and raising their kids there for the next 18 years. They still want the house, yard, garage. And they can’t afford it in any of those city neighborhoods with “good” schools (except for those on the Northwest side wherein they say “we’ll just move to Park Ridge instead.”.)

    By the way- I overhead a conversation of a woman on the El the other day discussing high school choices for her kids. She had her kids in private school as did some friend but that friend chose one of the private schools that didn’t have a high school so now she was “terrified” about high school choices. (her daughter was 11.) And the woman said, “what’s going to happen to them? Will they have to move to the suburbs? Thank god I don’t have to deal with that.”

    Apparently, put your kids into Latin in kindergarten- and no problems.

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  158. ” HD is pretty much correct about who is buying the condos in these neighborhoods with “good” schools”

    BTW, is it just me or is the current version of HD way better than super-bear or super-bull HD? The quality of his posts are 1000% better. Lots of informative stuff lately.

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  159. Sabrina it’s crazy – you have to compete for hardly any spaces if you aren’t in these schools from pre-school. Insane.

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  160. Jennifer, just curious: any chance you guys would move to Europe at some point?

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  161. @SB

    “Why doesn’t the “vulture fund” (your words) just buy the unit from the other bank for $50k and be done with it? The land if more valuable than the structure (even in this location.)”

    Vulture just means they target distressed debt; how they go about monetizing
    their position isn’t necessarily limited to one property.

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  162. Miu we wouldn’t move back by choice, but my inlaws’ health may leave us with no choice in a few years. Not sure we’ll stay in the US forever though either.

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  163. “I laugh at all the city people bragging about ‘walkable communities’, but then they are clogging the streets in cabs. And ‘Oh I’m too good to take CTA’.”

    Tomm,

    you are now my new best friend!!!!!

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  164. “Apparently, put your kids into Latin in kindergarten- and no problems.”

    Assuming you are legacy, otherwise good luck.

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  165. Interesting that in the top Ivy league feeder rankings, Latin is nowhere to be found. In fact, the only Chicago school that shows on the list is Lab. No wonder Emanuel hit that bid. He and Clio are apparently cut from the same cloth.

    http://www.electricprint.com/edu4/classes/readings/edu-eliteschools.htm

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  166. gringozecarioca on August 2nd, 2011 at 7:39 am

    well once again i confirm to myself that i know nothing. I always thought you midwesterners were big, tough, corn-fed fellas. We of the soft, latte drinkin, NYTimes reading, NYC ilk walk everywhere! Even in the rain – of course knowing cabs are not available and will now move less than a block a minute.

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  167. [From JMM’s link: http://www.electricprint.com/edu4/classes/readings/edu-eliteschools.htm}

    “Two generations ago, the key to getting into an elite college was a diploma from the right prep school. If you wanted to go to Harvard, you attended Andover; if you wanted to go to Yale, you attended Exeter.”

    Well, that’s not a very reassuring beginning to the article. It’s also pretty dated. Maybe JMM can post recent numbers from his Worth magazine subscription.

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  168. dz:

    you’re going to encourage further speculation from ze, which will end up with a lost of trouble.

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  169. lot, not lost.

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  170. gringozecarioca on August 2nd, 2011 at 8:22 am

    “you’re going to encourage further speculation from ze”

    What speculation.. Rich kids, with rich high expectation parents, with tons of resources available, going to very demanding high schools, competing against more competitive kids.

    Surprises on that list? Collegiate, Horace Mann, Dalton…No!!!

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  171. “What speculation”

    um, how they pay for it? forget already?

    And, the high number of family legacies involved with all those schools cannot be ignored.

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  172. “And, the high number of family legacies involved with all those schools cannot be ignored.”

    Not nec “all” depending on what you mean by “all” and “those schools”.

    My favorite quote from the article:

    “Parents shouldn’t panic if their child’s school isn’t on this list.”

    Also, Bell SFH under $200K:

    http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3619-N-Campbell-Ave-60618/home/13453136

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  173. I went to a public high school with a graduating class of around 470, with 17 classmates who went to Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, MIT, and Cal-Tech. Many more went to the rest of the ivies, and also other top schools like U of Chicago, Northwestern, etc. It was a competitive environment, but not insane. The classmates who went to the top schools are now primarily working in public service, or continued their education into a phd, or MD. 0 went into business other than the MIT and Cal-Tech people.

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  174. Shoot, even we dyed-in-the-wool Chicagoans usually feel this way.

    It’s not like this condo mentality existed until relatively recently – during the housing boom all sorts of kinda-fugly but still functional SFH and two-flats were torn down and replaced with these lot-line-to-lot-line condo+deck+garage monstronsities that offer zero green recreational space for little Johnny to throw a ball around.

    Come to think, many of the newer SFH don’t have yards, either because they maximized square footage of indoor space instead. A few years back we scored a good-as-new big-ass kiddie slide from a family in Lake View that was using it in their basement (!) – it was clearly meant for the outdoors, and the couple was very nice, and lamenting that they hadn’t really considered how much they’d miss a yard when they got kids.

    To be fair, many of these neighborhoods now have very nice parks and quite a few of them – it ain’t like the old days me & the Groove remember, where seeing a swing that WASN’T wrapped around the crossbar was like sighting a bald eagle or finding a $20-spot on the ground.

    “To move to the suburbs! They are NOT staying in their 1800 square foot duplex down and raising their kids there for the next 18 years. They still want the house, yard, garage. And they can’t afford it in any of those city neighborhoods with “good” schools (except for those on the Northwest side wherein they say “we’ll just move to Park Ridge instead.”.)”

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  175. And pardon my numerous typos. Coffee ran out this morning, it’s a crime against (my) nature.

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  176. “that offer zero green recreational space for little Johnny to throw a ball around. ”

    As you stated theres these crazy things called parks, all over the city but oh I know its too scary to let your kid out alone these days, the news has everyone so scared that their child will get snatched up by some wierdo in a van that nobody goes to the public parks to play and meet anymore!

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  177. “To be fair, many of these neighborhoods now have very nice parks and quite a few of them – it ain’t like the old days me & the Groove remember”

    its crazy the parks are so padded and safe now i am amazed ER doctors can even pay their mortgage. wait the cant and thats why there are so many short sales and foreclosures.

    btw when i grew up about 40% of my friends lived in apartments. the city of chicago has great parks and many of them too. that said i dont think i could function with out my double lot.

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  178. “Not nec “all” depending on what you mean by “all” and “those schools”. ”

    Well, “all” w/r/t HYP, and exaggeration wrt the HSs, tho for many of the schools at the top of the list there is a lot of family connection either with the school or with HYP.

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  179. “Also, Bell SFH under $200K”

    From the link within the link:

    “The median price of a Bell district home of any kind with at least two bedrooms is close to $450,000″

    Perfect example of a median that doesn’t tell you *anything* valuable.

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  180. Likewise. I think the real advantage of the yard (and also utterly in love with the double lot) is that you can let a small kid play while you cook, etc in the kitchen.

    Love my kid to death, but sometimes you just gotta get those little maniacs out of your way to get anything done – especially if you’re slicing and dicing or moving boiling water or something hot as hell and someone spontaneously tackling your leg is a bit unwelcome.

    “btw when i grew up about 40% of my friends lived in apartments. the city of chicago has great parks and many of them too. that said i dont think i could function with out my double lot.”

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  181. “From the link within the link:”
    “Perfect example of a median that doesn’t tell you *anything* valuable.”

    Shhhhh. You know whose link that is.

    Here’s the median in SFH form:

    http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2443-W-Berenice-Ave-60618/home/13453140

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  182. I would not let my child play alone in the yard these days. My life would be over if one of those weirdo psychos slipped in the yard and took him. I read somewhere that there are thousands of kids that go missing each year. My son, god willing, will be going to Annapolis Navy Academy as did his father so I’m not all that worried about his schooling as far as getting into the top brass as he already will probably get there, provided he wants to. I hope he wants to.

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  183. gringozecarioca on August 2nd, 2011 at 9:58 am

    “My son, god willing, will be going to Annapolis Navy Academy”

    So at 18 he can mount a greased pole, just like daddy? :-)

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  184. Grinzo, I don’t know what that means. Forgive me, I’m not terribly bright. But I want him in Special Ops but he’ll do what interests him I suppose.

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  185. gringozecarioca on August 2nd, 2011 at 10:02 am

    ““What speculation”

    um, how they pay for it? forget already?”

    No speculation, just good scientific method as taught to me by “he who shall remain nameless”, and it’s not like that kinda science can cause any trouble.

    In reality, both tails exist on the distribution… pretty much like anything and anywhere else.

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  186. gringozecarioca on August 2nd, 2011 at 10:04 am

    BB.. wa totally goofin with you. Annapolis is an awesome school. Can’t say I am a fan of the town, but that’s not what people go there for.

    In Annapolis there is a tradition where all the plebes try to climb up a greased up obelisk. Needless to say a lot of rude jokes start flying there that week.

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  187. Got it–thanks for the joke. Since I didn’t go there myself, it went over my head…but yes it’s a great school but I actually like the town too. I won’t mind visiting, that is for sure.

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  188. USNA, for the interested:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ujMhcHmEy0

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  189. “Likewise. I think the real advantage of the yard (and also utterly in love with the double lot) is that you can let a small kid play while you cook, etc in the kitchen.”

    not even just that, for parties, birthdays, thanksgiving, festivus. having a double lot yard is awesome.

    but yes when wifey is cooking little groove and i are out in the yard. even when its 30 out in december.

    on the days where i am dragging azz or sick the option just to sit in a lawn chair with no shoes in gym shorts and no shirt and let the wild one loose is beyond quantifying. if i had a lot line monster house i would have to drag the kids to the park.

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  190. the pole was grease-less in 2010. ouch.

    the use lard, btw

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  191. My yard is pretty secured and private, and we can keep an eye on the youngun while she’s out there due to window placement – otoh, we do hear infrequent (but regularly so) stories of ice cream truck drivers, etc trying to lure kids into their vehicles near parks.

    But at some point ya gotta not let fear run your life, or you risk turning into one of those people who are afraid to walk down the street. Life isn’t safe – in fact, it’s known to eventually lead to death!

    “I would not let my child play alone in the yard these days. My life would be over if one of those weirdo psychos slipped in the yard and took him. I read somewhere that there are thousands of kids that go missing each year. “

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  192. I quantify those days in beers! I’ve got enough canopy cover at this point that I could almost run around buck naked on my double lot (in the back/side) without any noticing.

    “on the days where i am dragging azz or sick the option just to sit in a lawn chair with no shoes in gym shorts and no shirt and let the wild one loose is beyond quantifying.”

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  193. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/watchdog/childabduct/

    Chicago seem particularly bad but there are plenty of attempted abductions. Sort of like how an alley cat might make 10/20 or 30 attempts before he finally catches a mouse, the predators drive around looking for opportunities and are usually unsuccessful but when they do achieve success, it gets bad.

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  194. https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/196467.pdf

    warning: Annoying file format, but a comprehensive DOJ study showing that there are approximately 100 stereotypical kidnappings of children by strangers per year.

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  195. But when it goes bad, it goes horribly wrong.

    http://www.delcotimes.com/articles/2011/05/10/news/doc4dc905f8261f0869777575.txt

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  196. I don’t think I’m paranoid but child taker types don’t think like we do. They know what to look for–they stalk for a while sometimes. They sometimes have accomplices that ring your doorbell and then “realize” they have the wrong address meantime your kid is getting chlorophylled. By the time you glance back out, he’s in the back of a van. I don’t even let my toy dog out but that is because mainly the Lincoln Park Coyotes. It only takes a moment for your life to go into a graveyard spiral.

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  197. 100 out of 60 million kids? You have almost the same odds of being struck by lightning in a given year according to http://www.weather.gov/om/lightning/medical.htm

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  198. Well I don’t send my child to play out in lightening storms either. I just won’t play Russian Roulette with my child. If other’s want to take those kinds of odds but I just won’t with my little guy.

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  199. “meantime your kid is getting chlorophylled”

    Heh.

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  200. I think the odds (1/600,000) are the equivalent of drawing a bullet playing russian roulette 100 times in a row? (i’m sure the math/statistics dorks will correct me)

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  201. you realize betty that kids are likely to be hurt by a car accident than a kidnappers. so stay away from cars, that includes riding in one.

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  202. gringozecarioca on August 2nd, 2011 at 11:02 am

    “I just won’t play Russian Roulette with my child.”

    Are you saying miumiu doesn’t know how to raise kids??

    didi mau! Mau! Mau!! *slap* Mau!

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  203. ah a deer hunter reference, nice

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  204. Ok now everyone is going to get silly with possible things that the child can get hurt from. Stay out of elevators–it could break and you could freefall…or stay out of Japan in case of a Tsuanmi–stay out of the carribean because a possible rabid lizard could get you…don’t take him to the cubs game because a fly ball could get him in the head….I’m just saying I don’t think it’s a good idea to leave children in backyards by themselves. If an adult is sitting in the yard, even with a laptop or reading the paper, the child abductor wont even attempt. I don’t understand why everyone wants to leave their children alone anyway. Don’t you want to hang around with them and have fun.

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  205. gringozecarioca on August 2nd, 2011 at 11:11 am

    “ah a deer hunter reference, nice”

    I have to say, I even impressed myself with that one… Like many say here, to only have been born earlier, and to have been around when there was all that great opportunity. Thank god I missed that one.

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  206. actually betty, you are even less likely to die in an elevator than by lightning!

    here’s some more fun elevator facts!

    * The only known occurence of an elevator car free falling due to a snapped cable (barring fire or structural collapse), was in 1945. A B25 Bomber crashed into the Empire State Building, severing the cables of two elevators. The elevator car on the 75th floor had a woman on it, but she survived due to the 1000 feet of coiled cable of fallen cable below, which lessened the impact.

    * Elevators are twenty times safer than escalators. There are twenty times more elevators than escalators, but only 1/3 more accidents.

    * Elevators are also safer than cars. An average of 26 people die in elevators each year in the U.S. There are 26 car deaths every five hours.

    Stay away from those unsafe escalators! lol

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  207. its not silly, its true. in 2009 “Motor vehicle crashes were the leading cause of death for children and teenagers. ”

    so worrying about kidnappers while taking taxis everywhere might be misplaced concern. though I agree, no reason not to sit in the yard with your kid

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  208. BettyBoop – it’s unlikely that your child will be abducted from teh back yard. However, they are far more likely to be abducted on their way to school ie jaycee dugard, at the bus stop, at the mall. occasionally it happens inside the home ie elizabeth smart, or right outside the home ie nicole morin but extremely unlikely that your baby will be snatched from your backyard. I too get a little paranoid about things, it started out SIDS (i was afraid my baby wasn’t going to wake up) then choking hazards and then child abduction but irrational fears can be abated with a bit of research.

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  209. “The only known occurence of an elevator car free falling due to a snapped cable (barring fire or structural collapse), was in 1945″

    This is totally untrue – I have seen it happen in many many movies. Please get your facts right before posting!

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  210. Is it just me or does HD know way too much about child abduction cases?

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  211. wow this thread turned dark. man this heat needs to go.

    i never really thought about it i bet at least 5 cribchatters are wearing tinfoil hats at this very moment

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  212. “actually betty, you are even less likely to die in an elevator than by lightning!”

    Tell that to this guy:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4m5zwiwgpU

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  213. lol chuck, he never made it in the elevator so he does not count

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  214. gringozecarioca on August 2nd, 2011 at 11:27 am

    “This is totally untrue – I have seen it happen in many many movies. Please get your facts right before posting!”

    Well by that logic, any Axe commercial, Fatal Attraction, or the movie Class would suggest you are much more likely to get sexually attacked by an extremely attractive woman (well 2 of 3 at least).

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  215. LOL! Elevator shafts aren’t elevators!

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  216. I told you JMM, I also know a bit too much about SIDS, childhood deformities, pregnancy complications, childhood developmental issues, etc.

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  217. “i bet at least 5 cribchatters are wearing tinfoil hats at this very moment”

    They are very comfortable and help to reflect the heat on a day like today; you should give it a try groove.

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  218. My poor friend had a baby die of sids. The baby was very collicky, cried constantly. Woke her up all night and all morning. Then one day she woke up all by herself…no crying baby….

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  219. hey you know how we roll on the NW side? we give our kids a bike or a skateboard and tell them be back for dinner. guess what they come back!!! yes they need some neosporen and a hose down but beats locking them up with a xbox, mountain dew, some flaming hots, and dunkin donuts.

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  220. “They are very comfortable and help to reflect the heat on a day like today; you should give it a try groove.”

    never said i wasnt one of the five i quoted.

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  221. gringozecarioca on August 2nd, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Is it just me or does HD know way too much about child abduction cases?

    Can’t believe the picture he shared of himself at last years office Halloween party doesn’t ring a bell for you.

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_nMBM7evpgRs/TOsGQeKXtfI/AAAAAAAAC_0/3hTdlhW0Dbo/s1600/pedobear11.jpg

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  222. gringozecarioca on August 2nd, 2011 at 11:41 am

    “They are very comfortable and help to reflect the heat on a day like today; you should give it a try groove”

    Hot as hell down here so I tried that once, seemed like a great idea, well 3 blinded driver car accidents later….

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  223. its not even sunny out today…

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  224. Two flat next door just came on market:

    http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3303-N-Oakley-Ave-60618/home/13385921

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  225. it happens, Rosalind Shays fell down an elevator shaft.

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  226. “My poor friend had a baby die of sids. The baby was very collicky, cried constantly. Woke her up all night and all morning. Then one day she woke up all by herself…no crying baby….”

    Great uplifting story, thanks for sharing.

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  227. Betty I’m so sorry for your friend, I’ve had two close friends lose babies in the last month of gestation, I don’t even want to think which is worse.

    And while I agree 100% with supervising your child at a level appropriate to their age, they also need to know what the real world is like before they end up in it at 18 with no clue. Believe me, with a 7 year old girl I’m as scared as anyone else out there.

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  228. “Hot as hell down here so I tried that once, seemed like a great idea, well 3 blinded driver car accidents later….”

    you told me the accidents were because of your new tight jeans and the “just for men” mustache color?

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  229. “Two flat next door just came on market:

    http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3303-N-Oakley-Ave-60618/home/13385921

    Unless I’m missing something looks like a nice place with SFH potential at the right price… I like.

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  230. Shame about the boarded up foreclosure next door.

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  231. gringozecarioca on August 2nd, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    “you told me the accidents were because of your new tight jeans and the “just for men” mustache color?”

    Ok.. I already explained, it was not vanity on the mustache coloring. It was because the sides were graying, leaving the center dark, which from a distance gave me the Hitler look.

    They wouldn’t even let me into Rosh Hashanah services, I had to do something.

    Oh and Groove… the one next to HD in the photo.. holding the lollipop. That’s Bob.

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  232. “Unless I’m missing something looks like a nice place with SFH potential at the right price… I like.”

    Yeah, depending on whether there are any plumbing/electrical etc. issues. Don’t quite understand the layout of the units.

    “Shame about the boarded up foreclosure next door.”

    Double lot!

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  233. “Shame about the boarded up foreclosure next door.”

    Not if you can get the place DZ mentioned above and then tear down the foreclosure as a side yard…

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  234. Haha. DZ — great minds think alike!

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  235. GZ: I have an extended family who was molested by a neighbor. He molested half a dozen kids in the neighborhood before one kid finally spoke up and put that pedophile away for a long time. Your might think your pedo jokes are funny and hilarious, but trying telling that to my extended family member who is all fucked up after harboring numerous molestations from her pedo out neighbor during her preteen years. This shit is real, very real, in my close extended family real, and that’s why I did my research on abductions and shit like that because I’m not going to let that shit happen to my kid.

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  236. Sorry about that negative story, I just had to put a stop to the pedo bullshit jokes, I have pretty thick skin, very thick actually, but I find nothing funny about being called a pedo because I did my research about the likelihood of a non-familial child abduction.

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  237. I’m glad I killed this thread.

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  238. “Ok.. I already explained, it was not vanity on the mustache coloring”

    is this like the time you told me you shaved your legs because you were a competitive swimmer? yet i saw you at the local YMCA in some orange arm floaties and a nose plug.

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  239. you are 100x as likely to get molested by a priest than a neighbor

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  240. ” but I find nothing funny about being called a pedo because I did my research about the likelihood of a non-familial child abduction.”

    Yet, sticking to the theme of this blog, you find *everything* funny about people who you consider to be real estate suckers. In fact, you appear to want people to get hurt financially or emotionally by real estate declines and mock their stupidity in somehow wanting to buy a home for their families. Strange you are so sympathetic to tradgedy on one hand and such possess such open schadenfreude to some on the other.

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  241. THERE IS A SHADOW….RUN!!!

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  242. ALL RIGHT This thread is closed….

    “Sonies on August 2nd, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    you are 100x as likely to get molested by a priest than a neighbor”

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  243. You’re a god damn moron to even try and compare the two. It’s just as fucking stupid as Joe Biden calling the tea party fiscal conservatives ‘terrorists’ and it makes a mockery of the victims. Go jump off a bridge, you’re an idiot. I’ve had enough of your god damn stupidity for one day.

    “JMM on August 2nd, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    ” but I find nothing funny about being called a pedo because I did my research about the likelihood of a non-familial child abduction.”

    Yet, sticking to the theme of this blog, you find *everything* funny about people who you consider to be real estate suckers. In fact, you appear to want people to get hurt financially or emotionally by real estate declines and mock their stupidity in somehow wanting to buy a home for their families. Strange you are so sympathetic to tradgedy on one hand and such possess such open schadenfreude to some on the other.”

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  244. Jennifer, thanks for your sorries. And yes we do have to untie the apron strings for our angels but for the record, I’m putting a GPS under his skin so in case he ends up in a van, I can save him. (Just kidding although I don’t think it’s a bad idea as long as he knows about it).

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  245. well according to this standards I definitely don’t know how to raise a kid. Deux Deux will get on CTA, play alone in the yard (heck I have a job!), and his ass will get kicked if he does not study. Remember Miu is evil : )

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  246. gringozecarioca on August 2nd, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    ” Remember Miu is evil : ) ”

    Mau!! Mau!! *slap*

    Groove.. this is for lil Groove… I love watchin this.

    http://mashable.com/2011/07/22/muppets-beastie-boys/

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  247. “Sonies on August 2nd, 2011 at 12:34 pm
    you are 100x as likely to get molested by a priest than a neighbor”

    I could not agree more.

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  248. gringozecarioca on August 2nd, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    this has been the funniest thread in quite some time…

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  249. “Groove.. this is for lil Groove… I love watchin this.”

    i love that video!!!

    my phone-youtube-sesame street songs are a daily thing for lil groove. Wife yells at me cause the screen is too small and he will strain his eyes.

    everyday we have to watch jason mraz seasame street outdoors followed by fiest 1,2,3,4 then followed by Elmo Ducks. in exactly that order. and if i am in a area where 3g is spotty, have you ever seen a toddler yell at a phone. its funny yet oddly scary

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  250. Well Miumiu, when your child ends up in the back of a van don’t come crying to me wanting help. I’ll give you sorries but won’t help look because it will be a waste of time without a GPS under his skin. That van could be anywhere. If you want help, maybe you can call that guy that found Caylee.

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  251. Even better Sesame video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWCJfCP_ISM

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  252. gringozecarioca on August 2nd, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    “everyday we have to watch jason mraz seasame street outdoors followed by fiest 1,2,3,4 then followed by Elmo Ducks.”

    I have no idea what any of that means, but I cancelled my 11-12 budget deficit crisis meeting tomorrow, with the President, to dedicate an hour to finding out.

    “have you ever seen a toddler yell at a phone. its funny yet oddly scary”

    No but it sounds funny, think I’ll have to borrow Betty Boops kid for a day or two to see for myself. ;-)

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  253. sure Betty and if yours becomes a pill popping sissy who has anxiety being around others and needs his mummy every where with him, remember than it is not very likely to get kidnapped but quite a few kids in this country have anxiety and other issues which is pretty much unheard of in other places.

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  254. good grief, people – I wasn’t even remotely intimating I was semi-permanently storing my kid in the yard like a dog while I went away on vacation or to the movies. I was talking about letting my kid out in the yard while we also keeping an eye out through the windows, and it ain’t like we’re deaf and wouldn’t hear anything.

    I’m with Groove on the below, you just have to know your kid. A kid by themselves is always a potential target for SOMETHING, but chances are likely he/she will be in a larger group.

    Not to mention the kid who regularly bikes or skates will be harder to catch than one who sits around every day stuffing their face with junk food getting fat. just kidding. sort of.

    seriously, the attitudes on this board can be amazing… you folks ever considered that your suburban mindset just doesn’t work here? kids in Chicago ARE going to run into every challenge known to mankind out there, I want my kid streetsmart, at least enough to laugh in the face of the “shell game guy” and not get taken like a tourist at the carnival.

    “hey you know how we roll on the NW side? we give our kids a bike or a skateboard and tell them be back for dinner. guess what they come back!!! yes they need some neosporen and a hose down but beats locking them up with a xbox, mountain dew, some flaming hots, and dunkin donuts.

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  255. “I want my kid streetsmart, at least enough to laugh in the face of the “shell game guy” and not get taken like a tourist at the carnival”

    i want my kid street smart too and be able to wait 5 minutes for the CTA….
    ..

    …i aint driving that kid anywhere! like my parents did, i asked for a ride and they gave me a few CTA tokens and laughed.

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  256. “I have no idea what any of that means, but I cancelled my 11-12 budget deficit crisis meeting tomorrow, with the President, to dedicate an hour to finding out”

    dont feel bad nothing would have came out of that meeting anyway, well maybe BO would have went out and bought you burgers because the dateline 20/20 cameras were rolling.

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  257. Miumiu, not sure why protecting a little kid and taking care of him would result in him becoming a pill popping sissy–that is quite a leap but I’ll take that over a kid left to his own devices who is found in a locked cooler somewhere.

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  258. “Go jump off a bridge, you’re an idiot.”

    Right, because financial distress isn’t a leading cause of suicide or, for that matter, domestic violence. Not only do you appear wantonly callous towards these effects, you seem to actually wish them to come about. Yet here you are concerned about things that have negatively effected you, or could, yet you are completely blind to the apparent fact that your entire persona is centered on taking pleasure and/or benefiting (both through your job and your real estate search) in the financial and personal misfortune of others. Seems like bad charma if you ask me.

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  259. Unless you literally never ever let your kid leave your side, they’re probably as likely to get abducted if they’re given no independence as they are if they do have it. Surely it’s better for them to have some street smarts about them if god forbid it does happen.

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  260. ““meantime your kid is getting chlorophylled”

    Heh.”

    thanks anon I just caught this… LOL!

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  261. I havent researched the stats but I feel like a kid with a gun is less likely to be kidnapped.

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  262. lol…good one CH

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  263. gringozecarioca on August 2nd, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    “I havent researched the stats but I feel like a kid with a gun is less likely to be kidnapped.”

    ROFLMAO

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  264. Seriously though, each parent should make the decision they are comfortable with. I am no expert on CTA buses, but have taken 3 and 4 regularly and found the people on them nothing but nice. My baby will take the bus, but I can respect others preferring the cab.
    I just don’t like going through life always thinking about the worst case scenario. For instance, except keeping his airways clear by use of right sleep arrangements and not over heating the house, there is not much else that can be done to prevent SIDS, so what good comes out of constantly worrying?

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  265. every now and then I get a bus driver who drives like she’s in the cannonball run. blowing through stale yellow (freshly red) lights honking at pedestrians who have started to cross. I enjoy those rides the most.

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  266. Of course Miumiu–and nobody said a bus was unsafe. Or at least I didn’t. There seemed to be confusion because I prefer cabs over busses and that seemed to get some folks here in a tizzy. I think they were bus drivers afraid their routes would get cancelled and they would be out of a job or else why else would they care if I cabbed around or bussed around. But I prefer cabs for convenience and d 2 d service…My safety concern is not busses but leaving children unattended in backyards while parents clean or surf the internet or whatever they are doing. I just would like children not to be alone in the backyard that is all.

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  267. honestly, you guys know more than I what is safe or not here. I did not grow up in US so should just shut up : )

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  268. “I just would like children not to be alone in the backyard that is all.”

    yes leaving kids alone in the basement playroom is safer.

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  269. One of our tenants had a rat come into her yard during daylight hours. So, yes, it can be dangerous to leave them there.

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  270. One of the giant Teamster scab rats from could definitely do a number on your precious offspring.

    A block up from the subject property:

    Paint the walls, refinish the floors, relist for $135k higher?

    http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3134-N-Oakley-Ave-60618/home/13360436

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  271. Roma:

    That’s nothing.

    Check out 3037 N. Damen- which is also nearby. It sold in May for $233,000. The redfin agent commented back in April 2011 that it had extensive water damage (was bank owned.)

    Duplex down.

    Back on the market for $459,000 and under contract within like 2 weeks.

    http://www.urbanrealestate.com/property/3037-N-Damen-Unit-1-CHICAGO-IL-60618-GHD2WI3C7W23C.html

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  272. Roma, I love it!! They did not even change the living room curtains!

    A block up from the subject property:
    Paint the walls, refinish the floors, relist for $135k higher?
    http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3134-N-Oakley-Ave-60618/home/13360436

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  273. And with homes listed for sale down, way down, flippers can get away with these sorts of negligable value added shenanigans. However I don’t think they city neighborhoods on the noorthside will ever run out of ready willing and able buyers in the 400k range for turnkey ‘new’ roperties which is why im calling a bottom. Unless there is a suddenly an influx of new propeeties hitting the market, which doesn’t appear to be happening, combined with 90 financing through private banks, its going to be the 400k price range for something new in the city and even today, thw supply of new 400k homes appears to be dwindlng.

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  274. There’s always a monkey with a high FICO score willing to overpay Sabrina. And I do like those bathrooms. This is the howmuchamonth crowd and the financing will reveal as much.

    Duplex down LOL I’d love to see how they’re faring this summer on nights like tonight.

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  275. Thing is how can appraisers get away with any sort of valuation opinion at 459k. Maybe the rehabber was over-stating the degree of water damage so they could get a higher appraisal?

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  276. HD- you’re calling a bottom in SFHs it sounds like (NOT the entire market.) There are plenty of other properties (condos and townhouses) in the $300,000s and $400,000s.)

    The real problem IS the $400,000 move-in ready SFH in one of the trendy neighborhoods (Lakeview, Bucktown, Lincoln Square- heck, even North Center) with a garage.

    There are a lot of buyers who would “stay in the city” if they could find this around $400,000. That’s why there seems to be a “floor” in SFH prices around this price.

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  277. The floor only exists because sellers or the banks are holding back inventory. They’re only holding back inventory because of government programs.

    I am seeing banks start to move on condos. They’re probably dragging their feet on SFHs to peter the losses out so they can hopefully have a few more debt or equity offerings to shore up their capital positions. Its all fraud. HAMP expires at the end of next year, too.

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  278. Real Estate Math on August 2nd, 2011 at 11:49 pm

    The property has 4 condo units total: the coach house on School street is Unit 4. Units 1 and 2 are owned by a Cali-based lender, Unit 4 is owned – off the top of my head – by the BOA and should be on the market shortly. Unit 1 is very small and has water damage; Unit 3 has sloping floor as the building is leaning to the right. Most appliances are missing. My estimate of repairs would be $20K per unit. The total property taxes for all 4 units are about $25K due to the inflated sales prices in 2007. It would make sense to buy the entire property and then rehab, deconvert and sell it for about $550K or rent it out. The problem is that you first need to buy ALL units at LOW price, which is unlikely to happen. I wouldn’t count on spending less than $350K on acquisition.

    As to 3037 N. Damen, the REO sale price was too low considering the area and the unit condition, plus the buyer fixed all damage and built a garage.

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  279. I just received an email from CNN.com about a group of pedo’s were arrested. Copy and pasted the email: “Seventy-two people have been charged in an online global child pornography ring, a federal law enforcement source said Wednesday. The official said 52 of those charged have been arrested. The charges stem from an investigation launched in December 2009 that targeted more than 500 individuals around the world allegedly participating in Dreamboard, a private members-only online bulletin board operated to promote pedophilia and encourage sexual abuse of very young children, according to the Justice Department.
    Watch live video of the Justice Department announcement on the arrests at CNN.com.
    >+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=

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  280. Bettyboop – I wrong, someone can try to lure your child away in the backyard! This is messed up.

    From: ********************************
    To: oipa-parents-discuss@googlegroups.com
    Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 11:07 AM
    Subject: ALERT: Attempted Child Luring in the Villa

    Today, Tuesday July 26, at approx. 10:30 a.m. in the alley behind 3622 N. Springfield, a hispanic man tried to lure a seven year girl over the fence while she was in her own back yard. The man had been going through the garbage cans when he attempted to lure the child away by offering her something. The attentive nanny heard someone talking to the girl and called for her, scaring the man away. He is described as an hispanic male wearing a white t-shirt with black wings printed on the back.

    The police have been notified.

    If you see this man call 911.

    My personal advice is to keep a close eye on your children at all times, never leave them unattended, not even in your own back yard. Lock your gates.

    ************************************


    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “OIPA Parents Discuss” group.
    To post to this group, send email to oipa-parents-discuss@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to oipa-parents-discuss+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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  281. I realize I’m a couple days late to this massive thread, but I just had to say something: This building is located in Roscoe Village, not Northcenter. I used to walk my dog past this place everyday.

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  282. Yes, it’s Roscoe Village and in the ‘offical’ Community Area of Lakeview.

    I would think this would be a tear down eventually. People once ‘priced out’ of LV are now ‘priced in’, so demand may be out there.

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  283. “Yes, it’s Roscoe Village and in the ‘offical’ Community Area of Lakeview.”

    That’s not correct. This area is in North Center. Sometimes the realtors get it “wrong” but not in this case.

    Roscoe Village, St. Bens, Hamlin Park- they’re all in the North Center community.

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  284. Roscoe Village is IN North Center much the same way that Southport is IN Lakeview.

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  285. Google maps has Roscoe Village with overlapping boundaries with North Center.

    Roscoe Village boundaries per Google:
    N- Irving Park
    S- Diversey
    E- Ravenswood
    W- River

    North Center boundaries per Google:
    N- Cullom
    S- Grace
    E- Ravenswood
    W- River

    You can believe the neighborhood boundaries are whatever you’d like. Future generations are going to believe google.

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  286. Sorry- the MLS is divided into the Chicago community neighborhoods. Google is irrelevant. Every buyer looking to buy will be searching by MLS neighborhoods.

    North Center is Community 05.

    It encompasses Roscoe Village, Hamlin Park and St. Ben’s.

    Every single house in the neighborhood (one or two blocks to the east, west, north and south) is listed as North Center.

    This IS North Center. Roscoe Village is within North Center.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Center,_Chicago

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  287. Bob- in other words- you cannot search for “Roscoe Village” on the MLS. Because it is found within North Center. It does not exist as its own separate entity for the purposes of listing a property.

    The same way, as I said, that you cannot search for Southport. Or, actually, “Old Town.” These are just smaller neighborhoods within the larger community.

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  288. Sabrina,

    That may be true but transplants don’t understand that. Similarly that Wrigleyville can’t be searched. And Lincoln Park contains some of the Lathrop homes.

    Actually on Dreamtown’s site they try to further subdivide it, but I think that just leads to more confusion. They should just stick with community areas as those are set in stone.

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