Does Parking Matter for a 3-Bedroom Rowhouse in Lincoln Park? 2408 N. Burling
We actually chattered about this Victorian 3-bedroom rowhouse at 2408 N. Burling in Lincoln Park all the way back in July 2009.
See our 2009 chatter here.
At that time, some of you thought this was priced to sell at $775,000- even without the parking.
But it never sold and was withdrawn from the market.
It has returned to the market this summer priced at $759,000, or $76,000 under the 2006 purchase price.
It has some of its 1891 vintage features including crown molding and the ceiling medallions.
All 3 bedrooms are on the second floor and there is a lower level family room.
The kitchen has white cabinets, stainless steel appliances and a black and white checkered floor.
It has space pac cooling but no parking. There is only rental parking in the neighborhood.
How important is parking for a property at this price point?
Jennifer Ames at Coldwell Banker now has the listing. See the pictures here.
2408 N. Burling: 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 2334 square feet
- Originally sold in 1986 (couldn’t determine a price)
- Sold in October 2006 for $835,000
- Originally listed in May 2009 for $849,000
- Reduced
- Was listed in July 2009 at $775,000
- Reduced
- Was listed at $749,000 in September 2009 before being withdrawn
- Re-listed in June 2011 at $759,000
- Withdrawn and re-listed in August 2011 still at $759,000
- Taxes of $11,370 (was $8226 in July 2009)
- Leased parking nearby
- Space pac cooling
- Bedroom #1: 17×13
- Bedroom #2: 10×11
- Bedroom #3: 11×11
- Living room: 12×13
- Kitchen: 12×12
- Family room: 16×20
- Dining room: 14×13
Charming, unique, big place (with a powder room!). Not crazy about the location, or the door in one of the bedrooms.
But alas, even if (1) this place could be magically transpored to, say, a block from the park and within Lincoln elem, and (2) someone off the street insisted on buying my condo for a price that gave me enough for a down payment on this place (which would take more than magic), it would still be a non-starter for us, due to the lake of a parking space, let alone a garage. (I know, I know, with all the magic going down, why not add a garage space? I’m a terrible magician.)
What’s the consensus discount for lack of parking for a property in this area?
i am not sure you can just discount it. I won’t consider a place without parking.
Except the owner’s an idiot because 2011 is a far worse market than 2009. Their entire strategy of pull the listing and wait until the market improves completely backfired on them. Its becoming obvious to all that the “recovery” was not V-shaped but rather L.
“How important is parking for a property at this price point?”
Well from the What I Learned on Crib Chatter Files , the majority of Professionals don’t use public transportation consistently, and only a high earning professional could afford this place, as the 8-ball says…the answer is obvious.
The comments in this listing are a little desperate:
“Easy street parking or rental nearby” — really? Easy parking at Fullerton and Halsted. Right. Let me know how that goes when you are circling the block trying to find a spot.
A great townhouse alternative? Um, I’ll take a townhouse with parking and less “vintage” (translation – unimproved) features. I guess I don’t draw a strong distinction between a townhouse and a rowhouse (not SFH, shared wall).
The worn fence with (gasp, hate) lattice tells me that this place is ugh. It’s not just the lack of parking that kills this place.
Mortgage applications are at a 15 year low per MBA this morning. Awesome news.
This place is ok, but it will only sell to someone who doesn’t value parking. Not sure on the options in the neighborhood, but unless there is parking next door, it will affect the spectrum of buyers.
This is one of the worst areas to park on the street. You have the el nearby and the hospital.
Very odd that they took it off the market for a month right in the middle of the peak season. I wonder what that was all about.
Maybe I’m reading too much into this but based on the fact that they went with a celebrity realtor I’m guessing they think a realtor can make the difference here.
“Except the owner’s an idiot because 2011 is a far worse market than 2009. Their entire strategy of pull the listing and wait until the market improves completely backfired on them. Its becoming obvious to all that the “recovery” was not V-shaped but rather L.”
For this property 2009 and 2011 are likely they same. Its a family property. In 2009, there were massive layoffs and most parents were afraid of losing their jobs. The job market has at least stabilized in terms of layoffs (no new hiring) and many people have had their second child. Thus, the some of the move up crowd is moving…it might be better in 2011 for this property than 2009.
“The job market has at least stabilized in terms of layoffs (no new hiring) and many people have had their second child. ”
????? People didn’t have 2nd children in 2009? Gary I hope u realize that the entire market is NOT made up of the 30 year old couple with shaky jobs and 1-2 kids.
sorry gary – I meant urbanmommy
Why not go with a celebrity realtor…costs the same.
clio,
your an unethical shill and troll, your credibility on here is shot and your agenda has been brought to light for everyone to see.
BTW Anon(ufo) and Chichow, i am this close….this close to doing it.
72 hr rule
Groove.. let it go.. everyone here knows better. I learned that myself. Now it’s kind of funny. Not worth an ounce of your energy.
Clio – “????? People didn’t have 2nd children in 2009? Gary I hope u realize that the entire market is NOT made up of the 30 year old couple with shaky jobs and 1-2 kids.”
Your right the entire market is not made up of 30 year olds with kids, but the market for this house is this demographic. Do you think retirees will downsize into a house with stairs and no parking? NO. Do you think new grads are going to buy a place in a family neighborhood at this price point? NO. Do you think this makes a good in town? NO. Do you think a single, banker/lawyer bachelor will want this style of a home? NO. That leaves a couple contemplating children (who have not yet realized how essential parking is) or those who had the second child and need the additional bedroom but can’t afford something similar, in this location, with parking. Who do you envision buying this property?
” Gary Lucido on August 24th, 2011 at 6:05 am
Very odd that they took it off the market for a month right in the middle of the peak season. I wonder what that was all about.”
Speaking as someone who has been under contract a few times in the last few months and kept an eye on the listings after they fell through, realtors seem to be finding ways to remove the stigma of a “Pending” followed by a “Reactivated”, so perhaps that’s what is happening here? Sounds like about the right timeframe.
thanks Chichow, thanks Ze.
anyways i think G handled it anyway
This is just lovely, a great place, almost my dream home. But I agree with urban mommy: the lack of parking kills it for its most likely demographic.
More broadly, I think this place illustrates one of the most important things wrong with the real estate bubble: when it sold in 2006, it sold at a price way to high for its target demographic. I’m not surprised that it hadn’t sold since before 1986 prior to that; this is a remnant of the Old Lincoln Park, one not populated by yuppies or dinks, people were willing to put up with some inconvenience–i.e. didn’t think that granite, or air conditioning, or parking were necessitites. Now they do and as a result, this place languishes.
“Why not go with a celebrity realtor…costs the same.”
Not true. Also, celebrity realtors (and I’m not speaking specifically about Jennifer in this case) in general are more about pumping out the volume and it’s hard to get their personal attention.
@miumiu
I understand that everyone has their deal breakers.
No parking. Parking spot but not covered. Covered parking spot.
Will only do a 2/2 and not a 2/1.
won’t live in a frame house / won’t live on an alley. yadda yadda yadda
that all being said, Its a darn nice location.
calling Gary Lucido: what’s the discount factor for no parking in this area?
“i am not sure you can just discount it. I won’t consider a place without parking.”
Groove, I don’t understand your comment, you are “this close to doing” what? Buying this place? I didn’t think you were interested in this neighborhood.
“calling Gary Lucido: what’s the discount factor for no parking in this area?”
I wish I could put a number on it. When I read miumiu’s comment above (i am not sure you can just discount it. I won’t consider a place without parking.) I thought “hit the nail right on the head”. You’re dealing with a severely restricted target market here. I know I wouldn’t consider a place without parking and I’ve had clients walk away from otherwise attractive properties because they couldn’t make the parking work. There was no price at which they would consider it, although at a low enough price you just hire a chauffeur.
@Gary
Agreed. It limits your market to like say married couples no kids who are true city folk. Zipcar and iGo etc. really make no car work too.
And I agree with you. At a certain price, screw the lack of parking.
As I am an OTT bigot, I’ll use Bri’s posting as an example
http://cribchatter.com/?p=9878
1.7mil and it was NICE NICE property inside.
The cost of having a car in the city is unrealized to most car owners. Calculate cost to buy/lease (break it down into a monthly cost even if you buy it outright), insurance, registration, gas, parking, maint. – and you will see that it may be much cheaper (and more convenient) to take cabs/limos everywhere.
The same goes for an in-town. I spend about 5 nights/month downtown. Even if I bought a cheap intown (150k w/ 400/month assm incl parking, and 300/month taxes, 100 in tot. utilities) I would be paying about 1300/month – and that is a minimum for a crappy place. That turns out to be 250/stay. For that kind of money, I could hire a limo to take me downtown and return me to my nice comfortable bed in the suburbs.
People just don’t think out of the box when they should…. I wish I had.
groove “this close tto doing it””
please tell me you dont mean (gasp) shop at Pottery Barn
I’m possibly in the market for a place similar to this and I already own a garage parking spot nearby that I rent out. Hmmm….
If I’m renting my parking out for $250/month how much is parking worth?
However, I really want an attached garage like my current place. In inclimate weather I can go to a half dozen places with free indoor/underground parking and never have to deal with the weather.
“The same goes for an in-town. I spend about 5 nights/month downtown. Even if I bought a cheap intown……”
Or you could just stay in a hotel. However, owning your own place, leaving your stuff behind and doing what you want is a very different experience.
Very similar to renting or owning a summer place in MI or Wi.
But I get your point….
If I’m renting my parking out for $250/month how much is parking worth?
60k-ish
Ze,
60k i assume that account for interest not paid over the standard 30yr?
what is a celebrity agent? It is not like buyer look for properties through agent’s websites so the famous ones manage to sell more. Am I missing something?
p.s. I still hate “for sale” signs.
why anonny?
Looking to buy – I agree about staying in a hotel vs owning an in-town- but wouldn’t it be nice to just rent a limo and be returned to your own place in the burbs? Honestly, it’s the best of both worlds. I wish I would have thought about that and really broken down the costs before making my foolish decision about an in-town.
“p.s. I still hate “for sale” signs.
Ha, I know what you mean. Realtors use the same signage that is used in the suburbs. They are too big for a 25ft wide city lot compared to a .25acre suburban tract.
“However, owning your own place, leaving your stuff behind and doing what you want is a very different experience.”
exactly. also you can cook your own food.
it’s an ugly cuff. Just a simple, if i were paying for parking, could remove that expense of 3k a yr. It’s about even with 60k mortgage at 5 percent.
In a shitty mood. Having some work done, and in Rio style, the guy can’t be found. If he doesn’t show, the next guys coming friday can’t show. Of course when i told my wife not to schedule the guys for job B until job A is done. I ate shit for ‘delaying things’. Of course i know better than to say ‘i told you so’, and then really have my mouth opened wide to receive a pile… Ah.. The lose-lose one sometimes confronts with married life.
miumiu – wouldn’t you rather be dropped off by a limo downtown, do your thing and then be dropped off at home (with all your kitchen stuff)? You don’t realize the hassles of buying food for an in-town – it is more cumbersome than eating out.
“it’s an ugly cuff. Just a simple, if i were paying for parking, could remove that expense of 3k a yr. It’s about even with 60k mortgage at 5 percent”
just asking as your the math guy, so i will always refer to you on those things.
sorry about the mood, learned long ago like you “i told you so’s” serve no purpose and its best to internalize that “win”. it sucks and whatever you think it doesnt matter as in the end its just you a shovel and the shyte. the goal is not to add to the pile or break your shovel.
Not to dwell on this….ok I will.
With an in-town you can rent it out on a daily weekend basis if you want the hassle.
With a limo you need to book multiple hours, have some guy wait for you…$$$ With a car service you have to wait for the car to arrive or be on a schedule…with a taxi, they all smell bad. Plus with all those options, it depends on how far away you live. If your’e in Naperthrill, you’ll probably fall asleep on you way home.
But yes, nothing beats your own bed…..however, you get that with an in-town and you also get a place to rest while you are downtown.
“what is a celebrity agent? It is not like buyer look for properties through agent’s websites so the famous ones manage to sell more. Am I missing something?”
The definition from my glossary: A realtor who is very well known and is believed to possess special powers. They do a lot of business because they get a lot of business and usually charge full commission.
Value of parking = monthly parking rent for equivalent space X 12/ what you can earn on your money
“Value of parking = monthly parking rent for equivalent space X 12/ what you can earn on your money.”
Well, that’s one way of valuing a parking space. But that assumes that the parking space is at, or immediately adjacent to, one’s residence. Let’s say, for instance, that a parking space a half a block away from this rowhouse rents for $250/mo. What is the “value” of that space, versus a space that is directly connected to this property?
clio’s limo idea is one of his better ones. the downside being it’s probably more difficult for him to pull skanks all the way back to the land of ronald mcdonald vs a short ride to palmolive.
“You don’t realize the hassles of buying food for an in-town – it is more cumbersome than eating out.”
Have you heard of peapod? Better yet if you hire a chief he will do the shopping for you 🙂
“What is the “value” of that space, versus a space that is directly connected to this property?”
value of that space + cost of limo ride = value of connected space
I don’t even own a car and I wouldn’t buy a place without attached parking
“Value of parking = monthly parking rent for equivalent space X 12/ what you can earn on your money”
yep.. saw it coming… so if I do 15% and you do 3%.. spots worth 20k or 100k.
and whew… 3 hrs and 15 min late but he showed. am i happy i kept my mouth closed.. that would have been ugly. We learn!
CH – too old for skanks – more interested in food and sleep!!!
Re: in-towns. It made some sense when prices kept going up and up – but it no longer makes any sense (unless you don’t care about money or unless your need to so great – ie staying down there over 2 weeks/month or for business).
CH – too old for skanks
didnt you recently speak of dating women until they determined you wouldn’t pay their rent.
The problem with no parking + kid(s) is dealing with the car seats. Sure my husband and I could make do with cabs and public transportation, but now that we have a toddler there’s no way she is riding in a cab. We looked into iGo and Zip Car but just cannot fathom lugging the car seat around on top of everything else.
Regarding parking, this street – and almost this street only – is actually easy street parking in this area. Burling runs one way from Wrightwood – and can’t be accessed from Fullerton – and almost all of the houses on this street are gorgeous, single family homes with parking. Did a satellite view of this place, and it looks like it is close (too close) to Fullerton, and most of the other homes are north of an alley cutting this place off from those houses with parking)
It’s my secret parking street when I go to Bourgeouis Pig (which isn’t too frequently now) or other places in the area. You can almost always find a spot on Burling. Don’t tell anyone.
Floorplan, one bath up and nowhere near the master.
http://www.leapre.com/PDFViewer.asp?Brochure=leap/brochures/BR5120532335.PDF
Gary – Regarding celebrity agents, “it’s hard to get their personal attention.”
With all due respect, I don’t want my realtor’s personal attention, I want him or her to sell my house at the highest price possible. Jenny’s website is outstanding, her photos are all professionally done (better than most) so who case if her staff handles the processing. As long as she does pricing and final negotiation, the other stuff is incidental.
I will pay for results, not hand holding. That’s the problem with most realtards, they want to make it an “experience” but really its a transaction. I just hwant the best results.
Clio – your taxi/limo ideal is a good one except for people with kids. What do you do with the carseat after the taxi/limo drops you off for dinner?
Urbanmommy – hire a babysitter – many problems solved!!! If you DO need to take children, you may need to hire a car for a period of time (ie 6 hours). Alternatively, you can ask any valet to keep the carseat – they do that stuff now.
Listing says “standard Chicago lot”. If so, tear it down, add parking and modern conveniences. As a tear down it’s maybe priced about right.
Pretty photos or a pretty agent are not going to save a property that is overpriced or is lacking essential features for most buyers.
“I don’t want my realtor’s personal attention, I want him or her to sell my house at the highest price possible. Jenny’s website is outstanding, her photos are all professionally done (better than most) so who case if her staff handles the processing. As long as she does pricing and final negotiation, the other stuff is incidental.
I will pay for results, not hand holding. That’s the problem with most realtards, they want to make it an “experience” but really its a transaction. I just hwant the best results.”
Again, I’m not speaking personally about Jenny and I’m not saying you need a relationship with your realtor. The bottles of wine and gift baskets are a bunch of BS. However, there is a lot more to it than just pricing and negotiation. For instance, detailed feedback on every single showing including why the buyer didn’t like it and what else they are considering. Weekly updates on how the listing is performing on various Web properties. Regular analysis of the market and competition. And discussions of all of the above.
The bottom line is that going with a “name” doesn’t buy you a single thing. Might as well shop based upon capabilities and price. The commission is totally negotiable and you can save 1000s of dollars and not give up a single thing.
“What do you do with the carseat after the taxi/limo drops you off for dinner?”
On about a half a dozen trips now, we’ve had a limo drop us at the airport, and when they return to pick us up opon our return, our carseat is in the limo trunk (which they require me to reinstall).
that is interesting anonny. what do they charge you for both trips total?
Looking at the floorplan for this one reminds me somewhat of the Alta Vista place we saw here last week. The space on Burling may actually be tighter, and there’s no parking or master bath. The Alta Vista place had both, plus an extra bath upstairs. Probably a better deal at $100,000 less than this, if you can deal with the Wrigleyville neighborhood.
This block of Burling is very nice, but as another poster notes, this property is quite close to Fullerton. I’d rather be a bit farther north.
“On about a half a dozen trips now, we’ve had a limo drop us at the airport, and when they return to pick us up opon our return, our carseat is in the limo trunk (which they require me to reinstall).”
Some places will rent you a car seat for maybe $10 extra. Anon also suggested this:
http://www.safetrafficsystem.com/
“that is interesting anonny. what do they charge you for both trips total?”
I’m not sure, but I believe it was around $120 each way (for a stretch limo). With four adults and one child, we’d have had to do two cabs, which would have been $80 or $90 total each way. Not only is a limo nicer and nicer-smelling than a cab (and they come to your door and the airport at your designated time, and will patiently wait/help in getting bags loaded), but, as noted, there is the benefit of the limo company holding onto the carseat while you’re away. (The same can be done with a town car, at a slightly lower rate.)
I would expect at least a parking pad for that price.
Fairly small for a 3 bed?
Urbanmommy – hire a babysitter – many problems solved!!! If you DO need to take children, you may need to hire a car for a period of time (ie 6 hours). Alternatively, you can ask any valet to keep the carseat – they do that stuff now.
yes, but this doesn’t help when you want to take your kids shopping, to the beach, zoo, movies etc…still need a place to keep the seat. Maybe I just go more places with my kids than most people. My two year old loves ethnic food so we don’t have to go to all the “kid” places and is very well behaved when out to dinner. We actually take him downtown to dinner with us on occasion.
“clio’s limo idea is one of his better ones. the downside being it’s probably more difficult for him to pull skanks all the way back to the land of ronald mcdonald vs a short ride to palmolive.”
Wait… Clio is a man? No way…
Well, someone with bigbux could buy it and rent it out to some trust-fund babies attending DePaul, whose ‘rents could afford high monthly payments to keep their little darlings out of those awful dorms…
Won’t need cars; the Fullerton bus can take them to the campus and college kids LOVE to use CTA/ride bikes, etc.