7 Months Later and Still Waiting for a Buyer: 917 W. Belle Plaine in Buena Park
We last chattered about this 2-bedroom at 917 W. Belle Plaine in the Buena Park neighborhood of Uptown in March 2011.
See our March 2011 chatter here.
7 months later, the unit is still available and has been reduced $30,000.
It is now priced just $1,000 above the 2004 purchase price.
Back in March, many of you thought it wouldn’t get a premium to the 2004 price given that it only had 1 bath.
But some of you thought it would ultimately sell around $275,000.
If you recall, the listing says it was a total gut rehab.
While the building is a vintage building, very little of the vintage finishes remain.
The unit has a bay window in the living room.
The kitchen has granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances.
There is hardwood floors throughout and a bay window in the living room.
It has the modern amenities of central air, washer/dryer in the unit and deeded parking.
How important is it to list the property correctly out of the gate in this market?
Jennifer Lane at Keller Williams still has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #2: 3 bedrooms, 1 bath, no square footage listed
- Sold in July 2004 for $299,000
- Was listed in March 2011 for $330,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $300,000
- Assessments of $246 a month
- Taxes of $4618
- Central Air
- In-unit washer/dryer
- Parking included
- Bedroom #1: 15×11
- Bedroom #2: 15×11
- Bedroom #3: 14×8
Looks better inside than I thought it would, but $300K is a lot to pay for a place with just one bathroom in this fringy neighborhood. Better off renting a similar place.
I know I’m probably the only one who cares, but I absolutely hate the look of these buildings when the cornice has been removed. I wish developers would replace them. To me they are a scar of urban decay, and when the area comes back, we should try to fix our old wounds.
This stretch of Braodway is skell central. No thanks.
“To me they are a scar of urban decay, and when the area comes back, we should try to fix our old wounds.”
How much you think it costs to replace that cornice? And then how much per year to properly reserve for on-going maintenance?
And how much would a nice, properly maintained, period approporiate, cornice add to the re-sale value of the individual units?
^Anon, that depends wildly on the level of quality you pursue but I’d venture a guess that it’d be in the 15-20K range for a building like this to do a solid B replacement. To me, as a condo buyer, that would be worth it. You are probably right that it would not be worth it to most so it would therefore not reflect itself in the re-sale price. The point of my post was to lament that fact. To me, historic charm is best when properly restored.
“I’d venture a guess that it’d be in the 15-20K range for a building like this to do a solid B replacement”
You think that cheap for a (manufactured) limestone cornice, and all the related demo/recon and the necessary labor? For just the ~20′ of this particular frontage, or for the ~40′ of the whole building? I was thinking *easily* double that.
And do note the round bays, which was undoubtedly part of the initial problem.
Many of these old buildings had metal (iron?) cornices. That’s why they’re gone. They rust and decay.
The places with stone or brick cornices don’t have the problem.
I’m sure it’s not cheap, but how much for a metal cornice?
^I’m not sure that the original cornice on this building would have been made out of limestone. I actually quite doubt that. I think it was most likely wood or some sort of metal originally. Unfortunately this is beyond my historical knowledge because I very much wish I knew the answer. Either way, to replace it today, even the most high end replacements are done with Copper. Other options would be wood, and fiberglass (which is the cheap option.) The only place I’ve seen stone cornices replaced would be on highrises in the loop occasionally, like the Marquette Building.
^TB im also curious but I’m not having much luck with my research. If anybody has some firsthand knowledge I’d love to hear it.
“how much for a metal cornice?”
Given a recent experience with pricing a porch railing, a *lot* more than you’d think.
I get anon on the cost vs. benefit factor, but concur with Andy: these buildings look BAD without the cornice. One look and you are asking yourself, what’s wrong with this building? Is something missing?
These prices depend on my memory, beware.
Ages ago, in 1988 or 1989, we replaced the cornice in my first condo building while I was on the board. The existing galvanized steel had rusted and the wood supports had rotted. The more expensive replacement was copper, followed by galvanized steel and wood, by brick, and by cement. We dismissed copper immediately because of cost. Galvanized steel and wood was about $10,000; we liked this option but our annual capital budget was about $13,000. Repair with brick was $5-6,000 while just putting up cement was a bit over $3,000.
The annual condo budget for 20 units was about $25,000. We ended up voting to take the cornice off and repair the wall with brick.
I am sure that the glitterati of Crib Chatter would love to have beautiful cornices on all their buildings, but I’m not sure that it’s at the forefront of consideration for the folks out there who might actually be buying a property like this (or paying the assessments for it). It’s nice to have the original masonry or quality period masonry, but it’s just not always going to be realistic.
I complained about the mangled cornice on last week’s Byron property.
I get that it’s expensive to repair and maintain; but letting it deteriorate and to replace it this ugly way is kinda putting a flashing neon sign on the building: “Structure Has Not Been Well Maintained Throughout All Nine-ish Decades” and also “Current Residents Are Cheapskates.”
This kind of apartment is extremely fungible in Chicago and I dare say a ruined cornice is a BLACKLIST or anti-unicorn item for me.
Cornice signaling is important.
Tribune reports today on $75,000 Neiman Marcus yurt.
There’s a vacant land parcel for $617 at 3848 N. Bell…. Your North Center starter home, under seven hundo all in.
“There’s a vacant land parcel for $617 at 3848 N. Bell…. Your North Center starter home, under seven hundo all in.”
Need to teardown the frame two flat on the lot, too.
“I get that it’s expensive to repair and maintain; but letting it deteriorate and to replace it this ugly way is kinda putting a flashing neon sign on the building: “Structure Has Not Been Well Maintained Throughout All Nine-ish Decades” and also “Current Residents Are Cheapskates.” ”
as certain as I can be w/o pix or a permit that that was done when it was a rental.
Oh, and check the streetview–it doesn’t look as bad there as in Sabrina’s pic, and the (original??) cornice on the neighbor to the east doesn’t look as good as I (and I suspect everyone else, too) was imagining.
^I’m quite confident the one next door is not original. To see an original, go down the street a little further and look at 927-929 W Belle Plaine. It, however, looks quite worn.
Yes you are correct, it probably happened when the building was a rental.
My only point was really this: To me, how you handle the Cornice on an old building is an integral part of an overall respectable appearance. It should be done for the same reason you clean stone, paint shutters, replace windows, or update your landscaping – because people want to live somewhere that looks nice, and the subject building looks like shit as it is. It’s hard to appreciate the vintage detail on this entryway without the whole ambiance that a restored cornice would create. Frankly, I think the whole block looks trashy. It’s not as though I don’t realize that it is a widespread problem
“Frankly, I think the whole block looks trashy.”
Think what that block was like 10, 20 and 30 years ago. Had the then owner thought to put up new metal, it may well have disappeared before the paint dried.
Again, why are we constantly discussing these 2 and 3 bedroom walk ups in non-green zone peripheral crappy areas of chicago? Why not talk about in-demand units or areas that sell pretty fast? Oh, that’s right – sabrina wants to convince everyone that everything out there is bad/horrible, etc.
If you are going to pay $300k for a 3/1 this far north you might as well move to Andersonville imho and actually have a viable neighborhood.
Sabrina’s on vacation, quit being a douchebag, clio… you don’t like it, please GTFO and never come back
yes, I realize my grammar sucked there… sorry
sonies – stop being such a whiny little bitch – my point was that there ARE areas and properties out there that are selling fast – just not these 2/2 or 3/2 or crapshacks in these fringe areas of chicago that sabrina keeps posting. sorry – but the truth is the truth.
Nobody is whining here but you, clown… go back to trolling the tribune comment sections or yochicago you douche
sonies – just ignore my comments – your true pathetic personality comes out when responding to me and I hate knowing that I am causing you to make a fool of yourself.
Clio: this market is really heating up, isnt it? I’m thinking I better pull the trigger soon. Prices will only go up and interest rates are at historic lows. Typical CC…always focused on the negative.
Buy buy buy!
“my point was that there ARE areas and properties out there that are selling fast”
Like what? I wish people would send me the listings of all these phantom properties- and send them to me on the first day they are on the market so I can post about them BEFORE they go under contract.
There’s not a doubt that there are occasionally properties that sell quickly. I’ve seen some 3/2 townhouses in Lakeview/North Center priced at 2003/2004 prices go under contract within, say, 2 weeks. But that’s because they priced it at 10 year ago prices and there aren’t many of those 3-bedroom townhouses on the market (under, say, $450k.)
I’ve also seen some foreclosures/short sales go under contract quickly- even those in the GZ. But, frankly, those have even slowed considerably. Buyers used to think they were getting “deals” 2 or 3 years ago. Now we see properties like the 2 bedroom on Division that we chattered about on Monday just sitting there. It’s listed at $250k and STILL no one is biting. How low does it have to go?
And I don’t care if some of you think it’s ugly or has an ackward floorplan or whatever else you were saying. If it were $100k you’d say the same thing. The fact is, it’s a property with rooftop terrace, with parking, C/A, and in-unit washer/dryer in one of the most popular neighborhoods of the city for just $250k. What more do you want?
But, like I said, these properties STILL aren’t selling.
Most of what is on the market is the same old, same old. Many properties have been on the market for months (years?). Let’s be real. They simply aren’t priced low enough.
“done when the building was a rental.”
“happened when the building was a rental.”
Right, you both correctly point out the second tragedy of these many buildings converted into financially crippling condos, instead of remaining rentals that afforded investment income to their owners and attractive, flexible, humane residences to their tenants. Fair bit of history visible in this building… decades of bad choices legible here.
How about this one Sabrina:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/100-E-14th-St-60605/unit-3004/home/39899703
It was a pretty quick sale.
Nice to hear you again miu! Are you quiet because of the baby, or is that your new place that is keeping you busy? 🙂
“Like what? I wish people would send me the listings of all these phantom properties-”
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3232-N-Halsted-St-60657/unit-H301/home/12742612
This was a typical 2/2 in a so-so location sold before print at a pretty high asking price. What gives?
here’s another 2/2 in lakeview selling for 360k.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/830-W-Roscoe-St-60657/unit-2/home/12665728
what gives? I don’t think lakeview is hotter than lincoln park or old town or the gold coast, but these “crappy” 2/2 ARE selling = and selling for good prices.
here’s another 2/2 in lakeview sold for 360k.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/830-W-Roscoe-St-60657/unit-2/home/12665728
what gives? I don’t think lakeview is hotter than lincoln park or old town or the gold coast, but these “crappy” 2/2 ARE selling = and selling for good prices.
here’s a very non-descript new construction sold for a lot of money:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3017-N-Clifton-Ave-60657/home/13364130
here is a nice place that recently sold for over 4 million. sure it is nice, but is it 4 million plus nice?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/800-N-Michigan-Ave-60611/unit-4801/home/12739676
The point is that there is a LOT that IS selling – these properties are just not covered by sabrina/cribchatter.
What part of “send them to me on the first day they are on the market so I can post about them BEFORE they go under contract” is so hard to understand?
“The point is that there is a LOT that IS selling”
There are not “a LOT” in the context of historical sales volume. Of course there are some sales, but volume is very low. Btw, did those all sell quickly? Wasn’t that your original point?
can’t the MLS provide the stats to either prove or disprove clio’s assertion that a lot is selling, and fast?
Market time is the data point you should be looking for, calculating and posting. Show us stats on MT under 7 days, under a month, and where, and we’ll believe you. Otherwise…
Oh, and clio, there was a place on Cambridge in Oak Brook that I’ve been watching for years now, finally sold, after almost 2 years, and like $200k in price reductions. Is Oak Brook moving listings like hotcakes?
Volume is down and new listings are down even more. And price reductions on languishing homes is even more scarce. It’s disgusting out there, really. i don’t know how realtors are feeding their families these days. Mortgage brokers can at least make money through refinances but realtors have to actually sell homes.
Oh wait, mortgage brokers have significantly curtailed their grocery budgets too:
MBA: Mortgage Purchase Application Index at Lowest Level Since 1996
The Refinance Index decreased 16.6 percent from the previous week. The seasonally adjusted Purchase Index decreased 8.8 percent from one week earlier and is at the lowest level in the survey since December 1996.
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2011/10/mba-mortgage-purchase-application-index_19.html
Even if 30 yr fixed rates were at 3.8%, the market would still stink. The traditional target market for many buyers is not interested in losing money in their current home in order to move, and the young people who would be first time buyers just don’t feel confident enough to buy, and are saddled in debt. This will take more time to work out. The top realtors and mortgage brokers are doing just fine. It’s everybody else that is struggling in those professions, for those who haven’t already switched industries altogether.
clio said: “my point was that there ARE areas and properties out there that are selling fast – just not these 2/2 or 3/2 or crapshacks in these fringe areas of chicago that sabrina keeps posting. sorry – but the truth is the truth.”
sabrina said: “Like what? I wish people would send me the listings of all these phantom properties-”
Here are some facts about the props offered as proof that “the truth is the truth” about props “selling fast.”
100 E 14th #3004:
4/11/2011 NEW $499,000 +$35,000 pkg
5/3/2011 PCHG $474,900 +$35,000 pkg
7/1/2011 PEND $474,900 +$35,000 pkg
8/31/2011 CLSD $463,000 with parking
82 days Market Time, 87% off origninal list, 15% off prior sale
8/18/2008 CLSD $544,500 with parking
3232 N Halsted #H301:
NEW 9/27/2011 $365,000
PEND 9/27/2011 $365,000
CLSD 10/11/2011 $360,000
1 day Market Time, 1% off origninal list, 8% off prior sale
CLSD 4/14/2009 $390,000
830 W Roscoe St Unit 2:
NEW 3/7/2011 $419,000 w/ext pkg
PCHG 4/7/2011 $399,000 w/ext pkg
PCHG 5/30/2011 $398,000 w/ext pkg
PCHG 6/9/2011 $397,000 w/ext pkg
PCHG 6/14/2011 $379,000 w/ext pkg
PCHG 8/10/2011 $369,000 w/ext pkg
CTG 9/26/2011 $369,000 w/ext pkg
CLSD 10/7/2011 $360,000 w/ext pkg
204 days Market Time, 14% off origninal list, 12% off prior sale
CLSD 7/18/2004 $410,000 w/ext pkg
3017 N Clifton Ave New construction SFH
NEW 6/26/2011 $1,379,000
CTG 7/16/2011 $1,379,000
PEND 8/11/2011 $1,379,000
CLSD 9/21/2011 $1,325,000
20 days Market Time, 4% off origninal list
800 N Michigan Ave Unit 4801:
NEW 4/12/2011 $4,775,000 w/2 pkg
PCHG 5/20/2011 $4,575,000 w/2 pkg
CTG 7/25/2011 $4,575,000 w/2 pkg
PEND 8/1/2011 $4,575,000 w/2 pkg
CLSD 9/23/2011 $4,050,000 w/2 pkg
105 days Market Time, 15% off origninal list, 9% over prior sale
CLSD 9/24/2001 $3,725,000 w/2 pkg
Hard to say if the Park Hyatt unit was renovated at all in the 10 years between sales.
How are these propeties any different than those covered by CC?
That should be 13% off origninal list for 100 E 14th #3004.
“3017 N Clifton Ave New construction SFH”
So, they didn’t have a sign up offering the under-construction house for sale? No “still time to customize” offering period?
“Time to customize now. Currently being built. Call for plans and more information. Listing agent is owner of property and developer of same”
The developer is Jasper Builders and they also had the same house listed as currently being built at 4138 N Leavitt for a couple weeks in July (cancelled) at $1.249M. Both listings show the same pic of “another almost identical home built by developer and recently sold,” but I can’t locate it in the mls.
““Time to customize now. Currently being built. Call for plans and more information. Listing agent is owner of property and developer of same””
That’s the MLS listing? Or what the sign out-front said for 6+ months before they put it on the MLS?
MLS. I hear ya, though.
What are the boundaries of the Green Zone? I’m new on the site & finding all the chatter interesting.
“Here are some facts about the props offered as proof that “the truth is the truth” about props “selling fast.””
Thank you for the info G. So we have determined that only 2 out of this small list actually sold by a metric most would describe as “fast.” The others were what I would consider to be pretty normal in this market.
Again- the reality is- that most properties are NOT selling within a week. If you get a contract within a month, you priced right. That renovated house we chattered about in Lincoln Park on Wilton that was ON the El line went under contract within a day or two. It was a SFH with a new kitchen for under $500k. How many of those are there? So, yes, it had a lot of interest.
Most other properties- not so much. Sales are still near historic lows. That’s not going to change until next spring. It is DEAD out there. The worst I have ever seen it in the fall. Almost no new inventory. No one is listing and few are buying.
“So we have determined that only 2 out of this small list actually sold by a metric most would describe as “fast.””
I wouldn’t call a new construction house going contingent 65 days prior to completion as “selling fast”. The newcon houses near me that “sold fast” were under contract for 6 months or more prior to completion.
Hi All. I am new to CC, but wanted to point out that the attached unit to this one (921?) just sold. I get the sense that if the unit is priced it would sell.
Do any of you actually know a God damn thing about real estate – or are you all spectators? such debbie downers – You guys must be real fun at a party……
Once again, it was clearly proven that clio was wrong, As expected, he reverts to his feces flinging monkey ways. Genetics or environment?
“Are you quiet because of the baby, or is that your new place that is keeping you busy?”
Hi Ben, it is the baby and the work. It is so much tougher than I initially thought : ) No new place yet. I just don’t feel that prices are where they should be. Of course I might be wrong.
G, I never said that the prices are where they were at the height of the bubble.
I just think that if priced right (doesn’t mean free BTW) and the property is nice, it sells. The seller of the unit I mentioned seemed to be smart enough to reduce the price in accordance with market value rather than chasing the market down.
Most properties featured in CC are interesting as they generate a nice debate but often don’t have W/D, parking, or views (in case of high rises) and are sometimes ridiculously over priced.
“G, I never said that the prices are where they were at the height of the bubble.”
And I never said you did. What’s your point?
“I just think that if priced right (doesn’t mean free BTW) and the property is nice, it sells.”
Golly, gee, the sky is blue.
“The seller of the unit I mentioned seemed to be smart enough to reduce the price in accordance with market value rather than chasing the market down.”
Fair enough. I just wouldn’t call it an example of a fast sale.
“Most properties featured in CC are interesting as they generate a nice debate but often don’t have W/D, parking, or views (in case of high rises) and are sometimes ridiculously over priced.”
In other words, a representative sample of the market segment covered here.