This 4-Bedroom Victorian May Have Everything: 4620 N. Winchester in Lincoln Square
This 4-bedroom Victorian at 4620 N. Winchester in the Ravenswood/Lincoln Square neighborhood recently came on the market.
Built in 1891 on a 25×152 lot, it has a front yard and porch, with a swing.
The house has a double parlor and a formal dining room alongside some period details like stained glass windows. The kitchen has white cabinets, stainless steel appliances and granite counter tops.
All 4 bedrooms are on the second floor and there is a family room in the lower level.
The listing says there is an expandable attic which currently houses a yoga studio.
The house has central air and a 2 car garage. It is within a block of the Damen brown line stop.
And if you’re concerned about schools, the Lycee Francais (or the French International School- whichever you prefer) is set to build a new 700-student, primary, middle and high school just steps away with groundbreaking expected in 2013/2014 for the 2015 school year.
Will this be one of the properties that sells “quickly”?
Deborah Hess at Conlon has the listing. See more pictures here.
4620 N. Winchester: 4 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 3200 square feet, 2 car garage
- Sold in May 1991 for $164,000
- Sold in March 1997 for $274,000
- Sold in March 2002 for $505,000
- Currently listed for $749,900
- Taxes of $9582
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 20×13 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 12×12 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 10×9 (second floor)
- Bedroom #4: 12×10 (second floor)
- Family room: 25×18 (lower level)
Everything except a reasonable price!
Agree with HD. This is simply overpriced (typical). $650k max.
Is this a record for the highest mounted TV?
“Is this a record for the highest mounted TV?”
Ha, I noticed that too. Funny thing is my master bedroom has dormer windows, and I wanted to mount our LCD tv high up on the angled wall between the dormers. It would be much easier to watch when I’m lying in bed, but the wife veto’d it because it would look stupid (and it would).
Lincoln Square pricing is wild to me. It’s so darn expensive. As in, no discount from peak bubble prices.
I’m not hating on the area, I like it. But if I’m gonna take on a jumbo mortgage I would not entertain Lawrence and Damen as the location.
Closed caption TV / baby monitor…that’ll be my excuse to put the LCD up there.
Nice looking place – I have no idea though on LS pricing
and the sumptuous master. adorable crib…these three syllable+ words are too much for me
“Lycee Francais (or the French International School- whichever you prefer)”
I prefer “that weird French school”. And, of course, $30k+/year is *nothing* to someone who can afford a $750k anyway, right? Only the difference bt a 30 yr mortgage and a 15–pocket change.
Neighborhood school is McPherson, which many say nice things about.
This place is ~200 feet from a curve on the el, yet over 1000 feet from the station. A less than ideal combo, I think.
“these three syllable+ words are too much for me”
I like the MLS blurp bc of this: “Sophist. MBR”
“Everything except a reasonable price!”
And a good neighborhood public school. Lycee runs about 15k/year, I believe.
Kitchen layout would drive me crazy.
Perfectly nice reno. It would definitely sell within striking distance of 650.
Nice-looking place and I love Lincoln Square. The one thing I don’t like (besides the price) is that it appears to be set back on its lot with a large apartment building immediately on one side. I imagine that would block a lot of light, and also intrude on your privacy if you lived in this house.
Just looked through the photos and this place is quite nice inside, though the kitchen is incredibly squashed and looks difficult to use, and the dining room is pretty small. The bedrooms and living room look good, and I love the attic.
Sad to see that these people obviously have a kid who’s reaching school age and a baby, and seem to be fleeing the neighborhood.
I cannot wait until we go back to 1997 prices, then I can afford this place. if you click on the listing, you’ll see it’s “Exclusively Listed ByDeborah Hess” would hate for it not to be an exclusive listing. Like just anyone would be able to find it on the MLS or something.
“I cannot wait until we go back to 1997 prices, then I can afford this place.”
And now you’ve hit on the HD House Buying Strategy™.
“It would be much easier to watch when I’m lying in bed, but the wife veto’d it because it would look stupid (and it would).”
Put the tv up there! Who is going to see your mbdr anyway?
Not sure the 97 price reflects the renovations, which seem pretty recent by the look of them.
“Not sure the 97 price reflects the renovations, which seem pretty recent by the look of them.”
Wait. What? You mean that a large number of the houses that are asking 2-3x ’97 prices have been substantially improved since then? I’ve never before heard of such a thing!
Best house I’ve seen on here in a long time. If they come down anywhere below $700, i’m sure they can get it done fairly fast.
I see LOTS of homes in many areas that sell for the 01 prices including the updates.
You dumb genX monkeys anchored to bubble pricing are going to learn that 161->750k or anywhere near it over 20yrs is not possible. You are going to learn that 30k appreciation per year for 20years is wild, stupid & bat shit insane.
“You dumb genX monkeys anchored to bubble pricing are going to learn that 161->750k or anywhere near it over 20yrs is not possible”
This isn’t even close to the same house that sold for 161k. The only relationship it has to that house is the address.
“You are going to learn that 30k appreciation per year for 20years is wild, stupid & bat shit insane.”
Likely to learn it before you stop claiming that additional capital expenditures don’t add to the cost basis.
The fricking house was basically gut reno’d. If you know someone who would do that–and do a good job of it–on this house for less than $300k, then I want his phone number.
And, if we spread the reno costs in such a way that the value doubled in 20 years, what does that give us for average annual appreciation? Something completelyt absurd? Is 3.5%/year *completely* absurd, especially when you consider the neighborhood “improvement” in the time?
Also hard to price the benefit from immedate access to the fire escapes/light well of the apartment building next door, plus emergency use of their basement coin-op laundry.
Time then for you HGTV brats to learn that capital improvements not only don’t always return a premium but often return less than dollat for dollar, esp. in a down market. 620k for this tops.
““You dumb genX monkeys anchored to bubble pricing are going to learn that 161->750k or anywhere near it over 20yrs is not possible””
“620k for this tops.”
So, 161->620k is OK with you?
Its not something I would pay but someone might. It will be much lower by 2020 though.
They are just taunting the Crib chatterers with that ridiculous LCD mount.
I don’t know much about the building next door, but looking at it on Google satellite view, it appears to be quite large, and in that area, I wouldn’t be surprised if the main tenants are recent college grads. Not the best building to have right next to your $750K investment.
You don’t want to go to Lincoln Square, I’m moving there in January and come summer will be sitting outside on the stoop smoking cigars and dropping my “h”s while chatting with the other old timers.
“So, 161->620k is OK with you?”
$164 + cpi = $272
$274 + cpi = $386
$505 + cpi = $635
Yeah, ’02 price in real terms seems like a pretty good value. If the good things about McPherson are true, $675 would likely be ok, too.
But the interesting thing is Bob’s saying that a real $$ 128% return is okay, but 176% is “wild, stupid & bat shit insane”.
This whole convo seems goofy to me since it would appear that most of the reno (kitchen/molding/AC/wiring/can lights everywhere) occured within the past 9 years, thus the cost basis is $505 in 2002 dollars which as anon says is $635 today. Their ask of $750 already leaves more than half the supposed $300K cost of the reno lying by the side of the road (again assuming that it is mostly less than 9 years old).
So the problem is with the 2002 purchase of a beat-up leaky unrenovated foursquare.
Check out the street view… image is newer than ’02, but the house is not painted up nicely and doesn’t have the new landscaping.
Lycee Francais is not for everyone, or even most people, but it makes sense to mention that a significant private school is relocating close to this house. That information is irrelevant to most, but might be highly relevant to (e.g.) a French or Belgian expat who wants to make sure his kids can still get a Bac.
“But the interesting thing is Bob’s saying that a real $$ 128% return is okay, but 176% is “wild, stupid & bat shit insane”.”
Right, that was my point.
You would need to pull every single positive contingency to arrive at the lower 600k value. The fact the ask is still over 100k higher is what makes it crazy.
Bob,
I agree, though the house looks nice. Did anyone notice the tiny sizes of the 2nd, third and fourth bedrooms? 10X9 – that’s not a bedroom – it’s barely a walk-in closet!
“Did anyone notice the tiny sizes of the 2nd, third and fourth bedrooms?”
The ‘burbs have ruined you. 12×12 is not a “tiny” bedroom–it’s pretty typical hi-rise 2d bedroom size.
9×10 is pretty small, tho. But it’s either a kids’ room, or a guest room, so it’s not too big a deal.
“You would need to pull every single positive contingency to arrive at the lower 600k value. The fact the ask is still over 100k higher is what makes it crazy.”
That’s not what you said. You said 30k/year “appreciation” for 20 years is “wild, stupid & bat shit insane”, but that 22.8k/year “appreciation” for 20 years isn’t.
” And now you’ve hit on the HD House Buying Strategy™.”
I have no doubts about the feasability of the strategy. Look hfor the diamond in the rough and make tradeoffs and its actually not all that difficult. I will always be outbid for the most desirable properties but give me an undervalued property, and a little vision, and there are deals out there. Not in the city of course, but they are out there. I saw one on the mls that’s listed 100k off the neigbors 2003 price! On the smaller side, smaller lot, but, a deal that so many others have overloked, at 1600 a month too with piti.
I think it is a beautiful home, and I was going to say $620k seemed a little low until I looked at the map. This is one of very few single family homes on the block. While the house is beautiful, you are still on a pretty much multifamily block which I think would definitely bring the price closer to $650 than $700.
“Not in the city of course, but they are out there.”
There’s still a big sell off going on in the suburbs. That’s where everyone who is renting in the city will be buying in the next few years. As I’ve said- they will bypass the 2/2 condo altogether. They will simply rent it until they have their first child and THEN they will buy a SFH in the suburbs.
Some of the deals I see in the suburbs are pretty stunning. And if you are in the upper bracket ($600k to $800k) you can definitely get a house that used to sell for well over a million. Of course, those were bubble inflated prices and these properties shouldn’t have been that high to begin with. But it’s still stunning to see a North Shore house that sold in 2005 for $1.2 million listed at $699k and still no one is buying it.
“But it’s still stunning to see a North Shore house that sold in 2005 for $1.2 million listed at $699k and still no one is buying it.”
For real? or are you talking Deerfield/NBK?
Re: Lycee Francais… it’s moving? I had no idea. We live down the street and were considering it for our kids. (It’s around $15K/yr btw) Actually, it’s probably a good thing it’s moving, we always see the kids playing outside in the dirt-literally, no grass out front, just running around in the dirt!
I wonder what will become of the old building.
Lincoln Square is about equidistant commute to Loop as OP/RF, so at this price-point it would be difficult to convince me that LS is better than RF/OP. Community amenities and retail shopping match, if not better, LS’ in OP/RF area. River Forest’s elementary school system easily matches Lycee, offering Spanish, French, and Italian language classes, plus lab science, and daily gym – for free. The $2500 – $5000 bump in OP/RF RE tax is well worth it, and this house would go for $400,000+ in OP and $500,000+ in RF. It’s actually a fairly small house; look at those room sizes and basement family room set-up.
Did rehabber replace original wood siding w/either new wood siding or Hardy Plank, and insulate those exterior walls? Or is there vinyl siding over original siding? Also, in LS, a multi-family building w/smaller units makes a dubious neighbor for a $750,000 SF house. Looks like you can lean out a side window and reach out to literally touch your neighbor. Hope they don’t play the stereo loud at night.
To note, house is beautifully decorated and the paint colors are well-chosen. No photos of bathroom. Like the range-top, but kitchen is oddly configured and lack of 1st-floor family room is probably a deal-killer for most parents of young kids looking in LS.
“For real? or are you talking Deerfield/NBK?”
Last I looked in Deerfield you could get the $800k house for $550k. But the $1.2 million house now listed at $699k and still not selling is in Highland Park (which has a plethora of “deals” right now.)
There are plenty of deals in the suburbs because there are well kept homes in solid neighborhoods being sold by long term owners with lots of equity. Obviously the most desirable properties are bid up but if you are willing to make tradeoffs to compensate for the lower prices, there are plenty of deals. If you can afford to break into the $500,000 range there are some great deals, deals that haven’t been seen in 10/12/15 years. Some need updating, or have a short driveway, or a small family room, etc, but the value shoppers can find steals.
“I wonder what will become of the old building.”
It’s home to Parkview(?) Montessori, which I bet could expand, and the (?) American Islamic College (?).
Would make a nice home for a private/charter high school, especially if they could do a ~$10k tuition.
“if you are in the upper bracket ($600k to $800k)”
So that’s what “Upper Bracket” means in all those no pricve listings? Some of those look really nice; I really need to look for a new house!
“if you are in the upper bracket ($600k to $800k)”
I am not trying to be a dick – but upper bracket usually refers to (5 million+) – in this market, maybe 3 million+…….
Buyers in the “upper bracket” want “new.”
When I said “tiny,” I was thinking of the 10X9 bedroom. I agree 12X12 is a reasonable size (and two of the BRs in my house are that size).
No, the suburbs have not “ruined” me. I don’t live in a mansion. Our room sizes are pretty normal (since the house was built on a relatively narrow lot in the 1940s, well before the huge swelling of SF that occurred after 1980).
I expect a sale price in the low $700s for this property. That is a nice long lot to have.
“No, the suburbs have not “ruined” me. I don’t live in a mansion.”
I only meant wrt bedroom sizes which are–generally speaking, especially for 2d, 3d, and 4th bedrooms–larger than what you will find in the city. And I realize that you live in a reasonable house, Dan.
“When I said “tiny,” I was thinking of the 10X9 bedroom.”
Agree it’s pretty small. In the (unlikely) circumstance that it has a decent sized closet, it would be a fine extra room for a familty with two kids. But with the (likely) v. small “vintage” closet, it really does make for a small room.
*but*, you wrote “Did anyone notice the tiny sizes of the 2nd, third and fourth bedrooms?” which is why I responded the way I did.
Yeah, I didn’t make myself very clear. I should have just specified the 10X9. The others seem reasonable.
“Buyers in the “upper bracket” want “new.””
Some do, some don’t
““Buyers in the “upper bracket” want “new.””
Some do, some don’t.”
I think that you mean, some “do,” some “don’t.”
love it ….but it is out of my price range!!!!