Want To Live in “Real” Old Town? A 2-Bedroom Duplex Down at 334 W. Menomonee
We last chattered about this 2-bedroom duplex down at 334 W. Menomonee in Old Town in October 2008 when it came on the market shortly after having been purchased.
See our prior chatter here.
Given what was going on at the time (Lehman Brothers had just collapsed), it was a spirited discussion about people’s real estate decisions.
If you recall, this 16-unit building was converted into condos in 2007-2008.
Initially, only a handful of them sold. The rest were rented by the developer.
Within the last year, I heard that the developer allegedly sold a bunch of them in a bulk sale.
This unit was one of four original sales (so it was NOT included in the recent bulk sale). It is one of the larger units in the building at 1400 square feet.
It has arched windows, millwork and moldings.
The kitchen and baths have luxury finishes. The kitchen has white cabinets, SubZero appliances and marble counter tops.
The listing says the bathrooms have waterworks tile/plumbing.
The unit has central air and an in-unit washer/dryer but there is no parking with the building.
The property is now listed $149,000 under the 2008 purchase price at $450,000.
Is this price in the ballpark for the location in the “real” part of Old Town?
Julie Tag at @Properties has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #102: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1400 square feet, duplex down
- Sold in March 2008 for $599,000
- Was re-listed for sale in October 2008 for $599,000
- Withdrawn
- Originally listed in January 2012 for $475,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $450,000
- Assessments of $195 a month
- Taxes of $5934
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- No parking
- Bedroom #1: 16×12 (lower level)
- Bedroom #2: 13×13 (lower level)
” The kitchen has white cabinets, SubZero appliances and marble counter tops.”
Listing sez “Fisher Paykel, Liebherr & Capital”–did they replace the refrigerator? AFAIK, Liebherr only does refrigeration products.
“Listing sez “Fisher Paykel, Liebherr & Capital”–did they replace the refrigerator? AFAIK, Liebherr only does refrigeration products.”
Is this place yours? I think you may be the only person I’ve heard mention liebherr.
Perhaps there is a wine fridge/cooler in addition to the fridge.
The bulk buyer paid the developer from $39k to $116k for 12 units in Sep-10. It bought another from an individual in Jan-11 for $355 (originalk purchase price= $495k).
The buyer entity is currentely noted as “involutarily dissolved”; its listed principal office is a suburban home nearing its third anniversary on the MLS.
This is a building requiring extra diligence about the association, imo.
“Is this place yours?”
Dammit, now I need to change my name to maintain my secret identity! How does anon(tso) work?
“I think you may be the only person I’ve heard mention liebherr”
Was semi-randomly in an appliance store with them. Were I interested in a high-end refrigeratiopn product, would seriously consider, as I liked some design elements better than S-Z.
“Perhaps there is a wine fridge/cooler in addition to the fridge.”
Could be. Listing doesn’t mention the S-Z, tho, and there isn’t a pic that shows any refrigeration. query the utility of a bev cooler in a kitchen that size, tho.
$450k for 1400 sq feet (half below grade), no parking? Fail.
And I love how those Realtors fudge the truth:
“Bedroom Information
# of Bedrooms (Above Grade): 2”
Photos clearly show the master at basement level
Our Sabriana loves duplex downs. I wish fewer of them were featured. After the bubble is over and the temporarily insanity that came with it has passed, duplex downs are not cool any more.
If the retired chem. teacher wants to come out of retirement, I’d hire her any day. I wish one of the folks that worked with me were half as precise.
“Listing sez “Fisher Paykel, Liebherr & Capital”–did they replace the refrigerator? AFAIK, Liebherr only does refrigeration products.”
@anon(tfo)…You never realize how important a good association is (especially in smaller condo buildings) until you’ve experienced a bad one. I couldn’t agree with you more on that point.
Maybe the Liebherr is a wine refrigerator.
The price might be OK for a duplex up, but not a duplex down. $450k to sleep in a basement? No thanks.
“Was semi-randomly in an appliance store with them. Were I interested in a high-end refrigeratiopn product, would seriously consider, as I liked some design elements better than S-Z.”
You know what is annoying with most fridges. When they have the water in the door. Why are they designed so that you need to keep the glass pressed against the button? It should have a pour/stop button so you can sit your glass while it is being filled.
Of course maybe the designers are worried that stoners would forget their water was being filled, walk away, and flood their kitchen. That would make an awesome page on a Powerpoint presentation at a meeting. Maybe they could even have a little note about it in the user manual, next to touching electricity with wet feet.
“Maybe the Liebherr is a wine refrigerator.”
Does one, when describing the appliances in a kitchen, skip over the $6k refrigerator to mention the wine fridge/beverage cooler? Look at the listing description–no S-Z reference.
Nice location, nice looking building (noticed it last summer strolling from an art fair and wondered about the units), and nicely finished units. But with subgrade bedrooms and no parking space, I can’t imagine anyone paying more than $400k (and even then, it will take a buyer who’s dead set on living in a nicely finished place in the OTT). (Were it a dup-up with a garage space, I could almost see it going for the 08 price.) And as anon points out, the association has some real red flags (including the too low assessments).
This building looks like a mental institution of yore.
“Does one, when describing the appliances in a kitchen, skip over the $6k refrigerator to mention the wine fridge/beverage cooler? Look at the listing description–no S-Z reference.”
My bad…I thought the listing mentioned both S-Z & Leib.
As some one who lives in a duplex down, I feel the need to defend (be defensive?). We love ours…. We have a kitchen, living, dining, 1/2 bath, master bed/bath, and a deck off the master (with seperate door for guests). Downstairs, we have a large family room, 2 bed rooms, another bath, and laundry room.
We can entertain upstairs, have our family hangout down stairs (which is cooler in the summer), we have an 8 month old who sleeps down stairs. We simply set up a camera system for $400 that has volume, night vision, and scans 180 degrees.
I have to ask, what’s wrong with that set up in a premium area for a family of 3 with a dog for under $500k?
I have to ask, what’s wrong with that set up in a premium area for a family of 3 with a dog for under $500k?
Nothing, especially given that you’ve got 3 beds and family, unlike the subject property. And I presume you have a parking space.
“what’s wrong with that set up in a premium area for a family of 3 with a dog for under $500k?”
Well, this one has relatively few of your units features–no upstairs bedroom, no half bath, no deck, no downstairs family room, no 3d bedroom, no laundry “room”.
What you have, in this location, would easily sell for $500k. Especially if kitted out like this place, whatever teh actual refrigeration equipment in the kitchen. Hell, I might buy it.
RE: Duplex downs. “I have to ask, what’s wrong with that set up in a premium area for a family of 3 with a dog for under $500k?”
My take:
1) Below grade in Chicago is very susceptible to flooding, seepage, and sewer back-ups.
a. Many are in vintage buildings where proper drain tiles and sumps we not installed at time of rehab. Do you have them?
b. If you have not experience the above, consider yourself lucky and perhaps vulnerable in the future.
2) Dark
3) Cold
4) Potential Bug/critters issues
5) Street level windows may be vulnerable to break-ins (unless glass block, then a potential hazard in emergency evacuations)
6) Per Chicago code, below grade BRs are not considered bedrooms (to my understanding)
7) Little/no space left in basement for storage or mechanicals
8) Potential Condo association issues, as with all condos (versus SFH, 2 flat, etc.)
” Per Chicago code, below grade BRs are not considered bedrooms (to my understanding)”
Seriously, I would *love* to see the Chicago building/zoning/other muni Code cite for this proposition. I’ve posed the question here several times, and it just languishes.
If below-grade bedrooms cannot be “bedrooms”, then how can one have a “legal” garden apartment? How did all those double-d’s like Mike’s get zoning and building approval?
We had a duplex-down in lincoln square. We bought ii in 2004, sold in 2008. At the time, we had a new baby, and planned on living there for 5 years. However as the years passed, I grew increasingly agitated watching the housing market plummet, and insisted we sell asap in 2007. It took 9 months to sell that place and we took a small loss. Then we rented for a few more years until buying in the burbs in 2010.
Despite the new sump pump, water came in the sides of the basement door (!) because the large stairwell would fill up during heavy rains. This happened at least 3 times, with major water intrusion. Yes I felt unsafe as we lived on a corner, and people walked by 24/7 (we just saw their feet while in our downstairs family room). Yes it was colder/cooler depending on the season. Limited storage also. I would never recommend anyone buy a duplex down with kids, it was a major hassle. But it did keep me slim going up and down the stairs 100’s of times a day.
I have a garage space….my building was originally built in 2007, but I bought it as in REO in Jan 2011 and it had mutiple issues caused by the former owner who stripped out everything including the tiles in 2 of the 2.5 baths. My building is on a double lot and has a front and back yard, with a wrought iron fence at the street, so no real break in issues. There was a sump when we moved in, we also installed a battery powered back up. It does get cold, but that’s a good thing in the summer and we do have a fireplace…in terms of the true definition of a bedroom, I won’t argue what I don’t know, but my wife and I literally looked at over 100 properties before we decided on the one we purchased and every single realtor ( I know, I know) called every below grade room with a door, closet, and window a bedroom.
Condo issues- I’m not going to argue this one, currently it’s not bad, but I could certainly see the day where one owner could cause an issue.
I guess none of this is relavent other than to say that there are all types of duplex downs out there ranging from awful to incredibly nice and depending on the construction, layout, etc they can be great for a family that can’t yet afford a single family home in their desired area.
“I guess none of this is relavent other than to say that there are all types of duplex downs out there ranging from awful to incredibly nice and depending on the construction, layout, etc they can be great for a family that can’t yet afford a single family home in their desired area.’
Exactly. I’m not a fan of dup downs but I see where they fit in, in the market place. Obviously a dup up or a SFH is more desireable, so if your’e buying a dup down, I hope youre getting a discount.
I agree with Mike in Bucktown. My friend lives in a duplex down and it is great. they have 2 full bathrooms, one up and one down as well as 2 living rooms. it provides great space to entertain. Plenty of space for the laundry room and storage as well. as for Condo issues, they can occur anywhere.
As a roomy duplex down owner, I agree with Mike, too. And walking up and down all the stairs for a 3rd/4th floor duplex up, especially if one has baby equipment or groceries or other big things to carry, certainly couldn’t be very fun or convenient. However, the featured duplex down, with all bedrooms downstairs, isn’t that nice.
I still think in general that duplex downs should sell for less than duplex ups.
“I still think in general that duplex downs should sell for less than duplex ups.”
They always do, if you look at sales in the same timeframe.
Sabrina, this is really really really weird, but last night I had a dream that I was looking at a SFH on menomonee! wtf! Funny part was, I loved the house but it had no parking! LOL I think I need to take a break from cribchatter for a while!
MBR appears to be 192 sq ft. Those windows do not appear to be 15 sq ft as set forth below.
13-64-070 Requirements for habitable basement rooms.
A basement may be used for habitable rooms or a dwelling unit, regardless of the depth of the floor below grade, if the floors and walls are impervious to leakage of underground and surface water and are protected from dampness, and if the required minimum window area is located entirely above the finished elevation of the grade adjoining the basement wall in which the windows are located.
(a) Light required. Every room or space intended for human occupancy shall be provided either natural or artificial light; provided however that all living, dining and sleeping rooms in family dwelling units; all patient rooms in institutional units; all guest rooms in hotels and motels; all day care centers offering care for children under 2 years of age; all class rooms or study rooms in Type 1 and Type 3 schools; and all habitable rooms in residential restrained care facilities shall be provided with natural light.
(b) Minimum glazing area. Every room or space intended for human occupancy shall have an exterior glazing area of not less than 8 percent of the floor area. Natural light shall be provided by glazing areas that open onto courts, yards or public ways which comply with the requirements of Section 13-172-130, or by other approved means.
“MBR appears to be 192 sq ft. Those windows do not appear to be 15 sq ft as set forth below.”
So, you’re confirming that a large-ish (for the city) bedroom is “legal” in a basement if one can install a 3×5 or 4×4 window?
“Sabrina, this is really really really weird, but last night I had a dream that I was looking at a SFH on menomonee! wtf! Funny part was, I loved the house but it had no parking! LOL I think I need to take a break from cribchatter for a while!”
I thought I was the only one who dreamt about real estate? Welcome to the club Sonies. ha! ha!
Yes- you definitely need a break. 🙂
No Parking sucks, duplex downs are not my favorite, but it has nice finishes and is in a great location. I think this place will sell at $400K.
BTW, I too dream about real estate.
Plenty of bungalows and raised-ranches are “duplex downs” out in the NW/SW nabes. As a family grows, instead of going through the hassle of moving, the parents just wall-in part of the basement to provide sleeping rooms for the older children and put in an extra bath or powder room. It’s a lifestyle not limited to turn-of-millennium condos in the GZ.
Building had horrible reviews re: noise. Beautiful buildout, though.
I think I recall the developer not being able sell and hence rented a number of units out – perhaps that is why that defunct entity mentioned earlier was formed…
“perhaps that is why that defunct entity mentioned earlier was formed…”
Could be, and would partly account for the v. low transfer prices.
Sold for $420k, Mar-12.