No New Cribs Today!
Due to the late hour of the election, there won’t be any new cribs to chatter about today.
Sorry!
We’ll be back to our normal housing obsession tomorrow.
For all of you complaining about the “boring” properties I’ve been featuring, please send me tips. I’ll be glad to cover other “interesting” properties.
Also, don’t forget, this is the slow period of the market. There are few new properties coming on the market- and there is already lower inventory than last year.
Is this low inventory reality the new housing normal in Chicago?
It doesn’t really matter who is president because they’re all on the same team but wearing different uniforms); but what does matter is another four years of declining home prices after this recent dead cat bounce. Housing Recovery? Good luck with that! Client walked in yesterday current on his $400,000 a mortgage for a house worth $200,000; guess what’s going to happen to that house?
” Client walked in yesterday current on his $400,000 a mortgage for a house worth $200,000; guess what’s going to happen to that house?”
HD what do you expect, this is the business your in….. yeez!
Topic of the day:
Obama sucks!
“It doesn’t really matter who is president because they’re all on the same team but wearing different uniforms”
Hmm. I can think of a few major differences. I’m sure you can too.
As for real estate, it seems that the biggest open issue is the fate of the mortgage interest deduction.
” Client walked in yesterday current on his $400,000 a mortgage for a house worth $200,000; guess what’s going to happen to that house?”
Are you allowed to represent yourself?
Come on icarus, put up a couple of places you’re looking at. We’ll empathize (or something) w your house hunt frustrations.
I’m interested to see whether the inventory starts increasing in early spring next year with the generally positive housing news the past few months. We decided to hold off our purchase until next year due to the lack of inventory, and have watched our remaining potential properties all either sell or be taken off the market.
I think you’ll be seeing big numbers in the spring, but then again I thought the ‘green shoots’ from spring of this year would have increased the inventory in the summer and fall, so it may take a bit more time.
Here’s one that went under contract and sold quicker than we were able to do anything about.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5334-W-Cuyler-Ave-60641/home/13478459
here’s one that is too rich for our blood but someone wanted it because it went under contract before we could see it just for grins and giggles
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4032-N-Lawler-Ave-60641/home/13476672
Don’t need to discuss cribs any more bc Obama is going to institute the Dict of the Proles and nationalize all private property, anyway. Better stock up on guns and ammo.
And seriously, Jesse Jackson Jr?
This is a prime example of how fucking stupid Chicago voters are
“too rich for our blood but someone wanted it ”
Think that would be reasonable(ish) if it had another bedroom.
“And seriously, Jesse Jackson Jr?
This is a prime example of how fucking stupid Chicago voters are”
No, it’s a *prime* example of the ridiculousness of gerrymandering. A potted plant with a (D) would win that district. If the “medical issues” had come up before the primary, he might have lost, but *no way* in the general.
It’s hard to believe that there are people out there who like Jesse Jackson Jr or Sr.
[4032 Lawler]: I guess they believe in the obtuse kitchen triangles. Now, I’m no contractor/architect, but couldn’t the stove have been moved into the main area with the back area used for pantry or something else?
“No, it’s a *prime* example of the ridiculousness of gerrymandering.”
Have not checked, but is it really due to gerrymandering? Was district gerrymandered? Would non-gerry district have resulted in anything different?
“Here’s one that went under contract and sold quicker than we were able to do anything about.”
Seems to me at this point that, *if* you’ve been able to identify where you want to live, you should have a really good sense of what are market prices or not. And jump on places that are well priced. I think a lot of places are still overpriced and the ones that are close to market do get a lot of activity, from what I saw.
Also, it’s kinda lowball season isn’t it?
“Have not checked, but is it really due to gerrymandering? Was district gerrymandered? Would non-gerry district have resulted in anything different?”
It’s both. Of course the districts were gerrymandered. Madigan is super proud of what he did. It resulted in numerous republican losses last night in the IL legislature and also resulted in the loss of a couple of a couple of (R) congressional house reps. Think of the walsh/duckworth district. That district was specificaly gerrymandered by democrats for democrats to put another democrat into the house of rep. and it worked. And even the state government is completely controlled by (D). no party has controlled so many seats in the IL legislature since the great depression.
IL politics are an utter disgrace but that’s the way it is. It’s more or less like the communist party in china controlling everything, except that in IL, we have the facade of a democratic election, but unfortunately, the winners and losers have already been predetermined by Michael Madigan.
“No, it’s a *prime* example of the ridiculousness of gerrymandering.”
IIRC Jesse Jr waited until the deadline for declaring candidacy expired before checking into the hospital. A perfectly legal move though it did bring some criticism because there wasn’t enough time for opposition to mount a formidable campaign or something like that.
Slow market? What slow market? http://www.chicagonow.com/getting-real/2012/11/chicago-home-sales-skyrocket-in-october/
IAR will report home sales in the city up about 53.7% over last year, despite the really low inventory levels. And contract activity continues to turn in strong YOY comps.
the cuyler house is really nice; I would have bought something like that if there was a better public school option in the city. $335,000 is around the value of my house and with 20% down and a favorable interest rate the payment is less than $2,000 a month. That’s about what it should cost to live in a nice, new, renovated home. The schools however are the big issue.
Speaking of gerrymandering…have you ever seen what district 4 looks like? http://www.chicagonow.com/getting-real/2011/11/illinois-congressional-district-4-worst-case-of-gerrymandering
“It’s hard to believe that there are people out there who like Jesse Jackson Jr or Sr.”
The other son is the real star. Yusef seems to be the real leader. He is a class individual with an excellent education and successful beverage business.
So does this mean that
A. Sabrina was up all night celebrating the BOB win?
B. She is so upset by the loss that she is taking a sick day today?
I’m going with option A as she is a woman but being a small business owner she could be an option b. Does owning CC put her into the 1%?
The Cuyler house was really nice. What made us take a pass (or wait too long however you want to look at it) was the lack of closets upstairs. To make this a functional home for a family would require dormering the upstairs. Not out of the question but by the time we got there — it was a busy week with our day jobs — it already went under contract.
Sidenote: the realtor told me that dorming would only cost about $10K, whenever a realtor gives me an estimate, I tend to multiply by a factor of three.
“Think of the walsh/duckworth district. That district was specificaly gerrymandered by democrats for democrats to put another democrat into the house of rep. and it worked.”
Right. *That’s* why Walsh lost.
“Sidenote: the realtor told me that dorming would only cost about $10K, whenever a realtor gives me an estimate, I tend to multiply by a factor of three”
at least three, I would say it’s safer to go for four
.
“The other son is the real star. Yusef seems to be the real leader. He is a class individual with an excellent education and successful beverage business.”
I am going to assume this is sarcastic? Jesse Sr. shook down AB to give him that distributorship. It’s a freakin goldmine for that family.
As for Jesse Jr., he’s just screwing his constituents, but he may be in another institution before long anyway.
LOL yeah… Walsh was a disaster from the get go, its almost like Mike Madigan paid him to say such stupid crap
“at least three, I would say it’s safer to go for four”
And that’s when they say they have a written estimate from a contractor. If they’re just spitballing, consider the possibility that the suggested reno is not structurally feasible.
” anonny (November 7, 2012, 11:05 am)
“Think of the walsh/duckworth district. That district was specificaly gerrymandered by democrats for democrats to put another democrat into the house of rep. and it worked.”
Right. *That’s* why Walsh lost.”
YES, that is why he lost. Don’t forget he was an incumbent who beat (D) Melissa Bean in her district in 2010. IL lost a seat in the 2010 redistricting and the Dems in Springfield wrote him out of a seat in the right leaning NW suburbs, forcing him to run a far more (D) district. Ignoring the serious gerrymandering for a special district for Tammy is ignoring reality.
“Have not checked, but is it really due to gerrymandering? Was district gerrymandered? Would non-gerry district have resulted in anything different?”
All of Illinois is gerrymandered, in one fashion or another–I’d say J-3’s and Davis’ are mainly for incumbent protection. Drawn even slightly differently, J-3 would (a) likely draw different D primary opponents, and (b) a possibly credible R opponent. This year, a may not have made a diff, but b might have. As drawn, b wasn’t going to happen.
As to timing of announcenment (mentioned by Icky), it wasn’t about a credible R jumping in, it was about D pressure for him to withdraw.
Jesse may have shook down AB to get it I have no idea. However his son is a class individual with a great education and is highly successful. I am not a bandwagon guy but can tell you from personal experience that he is first class and I would support him in anything that he wanted to achieve.
His brother is apparently pulling a fast one on his constituents. His sister in law represents a ward while living in D.C. That district should be ashamed of their representation.
” However his son is a class individual with a great education”
i am curious about what makes his education so great you’d bring it up twice? were you his teach?
The apple doesn’t fall far from the trees.
http://blogs.suntimes.com/politics/2012/11/a_bloodbath_for_republicans_at_the_statehouse_dems_gain_veto-proof_majorities.html
Jessie Jackson Jr. = Clay Davis
any predictions on Interest Rates now that the election is over?
“i am curious about what makes his education so great you’d bring it up twice?”
Had to look it up–he’s ba, jd UVa. Which likely makes jp3 a Cav, too, as those jeffersonians usually have a high opinion of each other.
“The other son is the real star. Yusef seems to be the real leader.”
Nice arabic/muslim name picked out by the so-called “Reverend” with the love-child. Whatever happened to the love-child? Hmmm…maybe he’ll be the “real leader”. Jesse Jr. got busted with a white hooker/girlfriend, remember that? Now he’s bipolar and in the mayo clinic too. People like this kind of stuff, they reelected him. Chicago should be so proud.
“LOL yeah… Walsh was a disaster from the get go, its almost like Mike Madigan paid him to say such stupid crap”
He should have said that he liked the path to bankruptcy IL is on. That would have been much better.
“any predictions on Interest Rates now that the election is over?”
Status quo. Fed will be buying more USTs when necessary. Fed has stated they intend to keep rates at zero for the medium-term. Bond vigilantes will not show up because the rest of the world’s debt is perceived worse, and the UST is seen as a safe haven. Buyers know that the Fed will print any money needed to make principal whole. Gold should be better than cash during the next 4 years, even if there’s some short-term deflationary crash which takes everything down.
“any predictions on Interest Rates now that the election is over?”
Today the ten year treasury is plummeting, 1.74% yesterday, 1.63% today, mostly due to the euro trash draghi (finally) admitting that Germany is headed towards recession too
Either way, I expect Weimar Ben to keep propping up his big bank buddies by buying MBS’s and keeping rates low, way low. I’d expect 2-4% long term mortgage rates until the end of this decade
“Due to the late hour of the election, there won’t be any new cribs to chatter about today.”
Great, Barack Obama wasting no time getting along with his agenda to ruin my life!
Duckworth won because she deserved to.Sweets to the sweet!
Walsh lost because he was hoist on his own “family values” petard.
Thanks, Will Shakespeare!
This is one of the most ass backwards states there is. Everything is broken and state is headed for bankruptcy. And what do people do, vote in more of the same Dems. They are the problem, but nothing will ever change here. It would be funny if wasnt so sad. Get ready for property taxes to go up. and that 2 yr income tax increas, might as well make that permanent too…….
Jp3 are you serious about jesse jackson jr? i’ve lost all respect for you. The guy is beyond crooked and you give him or his family props?
He tried to buy Obama’s senate seat for 6 million but got caught and is now ‘depressed’ / checked into the clinical facility to avoid his impending prison time. He’s avoiding the senate ethical hearing. Former mayor blag already has stated it was Jesse who tried to buy the seat. The buyer is just as culpable as the seller…
Recent news on Jesse other than the fact that he’s hiding from his jail time and not doing what tax payers are paying him to do…
1. he is giving his campaign funds to his wife who also conveniently enough is his campaign manager. She has bought a number of VERY expensive furniture pieces with that money.
2. he has cheated numerous times on his wife
NBC news chicago has a great piece on him here.
“For many Chicagoans, Jackson Jr’s victory will evoke the memory of another absent Chicago politician, John Stroger, the former Cook County Board President who was able to engineer an election win despite remaining disappearing from public view for months following a severe stroke. His future may evoke another.
Stroger won his primary battle without a problem, or an appearance. Months later used a bit of trickery to resign, then get his son Todd on the ticket before the general election, and the Chicago machine swept him into office. Stroger, the junior, won.
John Stroger never recovered from the stroke. He dipped in and out of the hospital over the next year and a half, suffering from seizures and other maladies that besiege 79-year-old men. Then he died, and his son trampled his legacy in his stead.
Jackson Jr. likewise suddenly disappeared from the public before the primary, in early June when he left for a treatment center in Arizona. He later moved on to Mayo where he was diagnosed with bipolar depression and gastrointestinal issues.
Between June and November, nary a constituent saw their Congressman — not working, not campaigning, not fundraising — because he avoided press and voter alike. Jackson, the junior, won.
If federal authorities make good on any number of not-so-veiled threats against Jackson Jr., he could suffer a much worse fate Stroger.
In October, Federal prosecutors and FBI agents in Washington launched a criminal investigation of Jackson, Jr. involving financial improprieties, including possible misuse of funds monitored by Congress to decorate his Washington D.C. Home.
Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/Jesse-Jackson-Jr-Wins-Reelection–175717941.html#ixzz2BZBiGxJF
http://scottystarnes.wordpress.com/2010/09/21/like-father-like-son-jesse-jackson-jr-caught-up-in-cheating-scandal/
I just can’t see why the media won’t cover the fact that a known guilty/crooked politician just got elected in a landslide. It makes me wonder… if this politician had been of a different race the media surely would be all over him.
Look at the windstorm that congressman Weiner caused vs Jesse Jackson Jr.
Jp3 are you serious about jesse jackson jr? i’ve lost all respect for you. The guy is beyond crooked and you give him or his family props?
He tried to buy Obama’s senate seat for 6 million but got caught and is now ‘depressed’ / checked into the clinical facility to avoid his impending prison time. He’s avoiding the senate ethical hearing. Former mayor blag already has stated it was Jesse who tried to buy the seat. The buyer is just as culpable as the seller…
Recent news on Jesse other than the fact that he’s hiding from his jail time and not doing what tax payers are paying him to do…
1. he is giving his campaign funds to his wife who also conveniently enough is his campaign manager. She has bought a number of VERY expensive furniture pieces with that money.
2. he has cheated numerous times on his wife
NBC news chicago has a great words for his reelection.
“For many Chicagoans, Jackson Jr’s victory will evoke the memory of another absent Chicago politician, John Stroger, the former Cook County Board President who was able to engineer an election win despite remaining disappearing from public view for months following a severe stroke. His future may evoke another.
Stroger won his primary battle without a problem, or an appearance. Months later used a bit of trickery to resign, then get his son Todd on the ticket before the general election, and the Chicago machine swept him into office. Stroger, the junior, won.
John Stroger never recovered from the stroke. He dipped in and out of the hospital over the next year and a half, suffering from seizures and other maladies that besiege 79-year-old men. Then he died, and his son trampled his legacy in his stead.
Jackson Jr. likewise suddenly disappeared from the public before the primary, in early June when he left for a treatment center in Arizona. He later moved on to Mayo where he was diagnosed with bipolar depression and gastrointestinal issues.
Between June and November, nary a constituent saw their Congressman — not working, not campaigning, not fundraising — because he avoided press and voter alike. Jackson, the junior, won.
If federal authorities make good on any number of not-so-veiled threats against Jackson Jr., he could suffer a much worse fate Stroger.
In October, Federal prosecutors and FBI agents in Washington launched a criminal investigation of Jackson, Jr. involving financial improprieties, including possible misuse of funds monitored by Congress to decorate his Washington D.C. Home.
“Everything is broken and state is headed for bankruptcy. And what do people do, vote in more of the same Dems.”
The Rs nominated for Guv someone who said “yeah, borrowing $8B to fund the pensions is prob a good idea”. The permanent political class in the state isn’t collectively interested in anything other than re-election.
“The guy is beyond crooked and you give him or his family props?”
What a horribly, horribly anti-American sentiment. I suppose you would suggest we pillory and bankrupt all family members of all criminals everywhere?
Yusef and J-3 are NOT the same person. Not even close.
still hard to figure why yusef was injected into discussion. it’s like jp3 is his jzekas. though more evenhanded bc he admits jr is an embarassment
“I just can’t see why the media won’t cover the fact that a known guilty/crooked politician just got elected in a landslide. It makes me wonder… if this politician had been of a different race the media surely would be all over him.”
You’re right. Race plays into all kinds of things, esp. politics here in Illinois. Just don’t try and tell “Southbound” that Jewish people in Illinois do things in their racial interests too, just like blacks and hispanics. He’ll hyperventilate (and go into denial mode). Dold had to bend over backwards to convince people that he loves abortion and Israel to defeat Schneider (D).
“. Dold had to bend over backwards to convince people that he loves abortion and Israel to defeat Schneider (D).
And ultimately he lost and his north shore constituency voted (D).
politiking isn’t all about race these days but that’s a large part of it, it’s also about socio-economic status. Romney’s not entirely correct when he says that 47% of the population lives off the government, but there’s no denying that there are more people living on some sort of welfare (anything from reduced lunch to medicaid, to SSDI to link card, subsidized housing, etc), with children out of wedlock than there was even 10-15 years ago. Society has changed. People are poorer, less likely to get married, more likely to get divorced, having children out of wedlock. Having children out of wedlock and not beigng married is about the quickest way to being lower middle class or middle class there is, because the parties involved are supporting two households rather than one. I see it all the time from divorced parents, or baby mommas and baby daddies, etc.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2103235/Most-children-U-S-born-wedlock.html
“Nearly three quarters of black children are born outside marriage compared with half of Latino babies and 29 per cent of whites. There is also an education divide, with 92 per cent of college-educated women married when they give birth compared with 43 per cent of women with a high school diploma or less.”
So basically rich, educated people are having fewer children while married and poorer, less educated children are having more children out of wedlock. Long term, it’s a recipe for disaster, and that’s the cultural shift that’s occuring in america. I know I sound like pat robertson or whatever saying this stuff, but it’s true, there’s no denying it. Obama is the candidate of the future and of today, the guy who will give the single moms health insurance or food stamps, and the illegal immigrants legal status, and all these other things that the older, white populace doesn’t want think about. The older white, married stable and richer population, especially those that live in ‘whitopia’ are looking around saying what the heck happened to america? the change has happened so quickly that it’s unrecognizable in many aspects.
hd I hate to say it, but I agree with you, we are headed towards an Idiocracy (watch the movie, you’ll love it)
So if this is a semi-open thread, here’s a house I recently bid on but lost in a multi-bid situation: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4910-N-Winchester-Ave-60640/home/13403457. There were three other bids in addition to mine, and all three were above the asking price. Cribchatter commentariat, I respectfully request that you do your thing and point out every flaw in this place so I feel less bad about losing it (I already feel bad enough about the election).
“Get ready for property taxes to go up. and that 2 yr income tax increas, might as well make that permanent too…….”
If there was ever any doubt about these things, last night sealed both of them. At this point, I’d be stunned — I mean truly, wide eyes, mouth hanging open-stunned — if the 2% income tax increase is allowed to expire; Illinois just spends too much for politicians to lose the revenue. Property taxes will be going up in Cook County for similar reasons.
“hd I hate to say it, but I agree with you, we are headed towards an Idiocracy (watch the movie, you’ll love it)”
No doubt about it. Mike Judge is one of the few conservative minded people that’s allowed to contribute to hollywood’s kosher scatological output, since he created Beavis and Butthead although which plays into their themes of making white Americans look stupid every chance they get. “Idiocracy” was an interesting movie, but it was suppressed. It never was distrubuted into many screens nationwide when it came out. I’m not sure they want people to watch it, which is a good reason why you should.
Sonies, you think that “Ow, my balls” TV show in the film is two hundred years in the future? It’s already happened in the United States: Found it here: http://www.avidh.com/view/3216/idiocracy,-now-reality/ (the 3 kosher judges just love it..)
@Sad_at_Plaza… it’s a beautiful house. The only thing I can think of is your purchase would fire off a huge property tax increase because Lincoln Square is Hot Hot Hot
“So basically rich, educated people are having fewer children while married and poorer, less educated children are having more children out of wedlock. Long term, it’s a recipe for disaster, and that’s the cultural shift that’s occuring in america. I know I sound like pat robertson or whatever saying this stuff, but it’s true, there’s no denying it. Obama is the candidate of the future and of today, the guy who will give the single moms health insurance or food stamps, and the illegal immigrants legal status, and all these other things that the older, white populace doesn’t want think about. The older white, married stable and richer population, especially those that live in ‘whitopia’ are looking around saying what the heck happened to america? the change has happened so quickly that it’s unrecognizable in many aspects.”
That’s correct. I’m glad you said, so people won’t whine if I said it. The only variable you forgot to mention is that your “whitopia” demographic has contracepted and aborted its population numbers to deleterious levels. Why do you think democrats and their sick-minded intellectual leaders support and promote those things so fervently in the USA?
“Obama is the candidate of the future and of today…”
Technically, he is no longer, and most likely will never again be, a candidate for any elected office.
“… the guy who will give the single moms health insurance or food stamps, and the illegal immigrants legal status, and all these other things that the older, white populace doesn’t want think about.”
I’m white but only in my 40’s, but I want to think about those things. In fact, some of us in the “white populace” think that insuring single moms and increasing food stamp benefits is a no brainer as well as a drop in the bucket, and think that immigration reform should tilt heavily towards…gasp…”amnesty.” Having grown up in areas (i) that are almost entirely white, (ii) with far below 50% college graduation rates, and (iii) with above 50% single parent households, I recognize that a large percentage of the recipients of those entitlements are actually members of the “white populace” (notwithstanding the fact that many of those recipients don’t tend to view themselves as welfare recipients, but instead assume that it’s mostly racial minorities and immigrants who are straining the entitlement system).
“The older white, married stable and richer population, especially those that live in ‘whitopia’ are looking around saying what the heck happened to america?”
Some of us among the white, married, stable and richer population, including and especially many in mega-whitopias like LP, have indeed been looking around and saying what the heck happened. We’ve been wondering how a confluence of religious fundamentalists and tax-cuts-the-consequences-be-damned fiscal domestic terrrorists (tax cuts while starting wars anyone?) were able to dupe so many working and middle class white voters into thinking that they should elect folks like GWB and Joe Walsh, as if they’d would uphold or restore some mythical golden age of American values and sensible policies. Fortunately, despite coming on the heels of the disasterous period from 2000-2008, the period from 1/2009 – 2016 will have resulted in (the start of) major health care reform, (the start of) major efforts to curb climate change (if you thought the opposition to a law as humane and simple as Obamacare was crazed, brace yourself for the opposition to Obamagreen), and the placement of at least two, and likely a total of four, young, liberal justices on the USSC bench, along with the placement of dozens of young, liberal judges on district and Circuit level benches. And that’s on top of all the other stuff like the Lily Ledbetter act, the inevitable overturning of the federal and all state DOMAs, etc.
“I respectfully request that you do your thing and point out every flaw in this place”
crappy appliances, no chef’s vent hood.
“We’ve been wondering how a confluence of religious fundamentalists and tax-cuts-the-consequences-be-damned fiscal domestic terrrorists (tax cuts while starting wars anyone?) were able to dupe so many working and middle class white voters into thinking that they should elect folks like GWB and Joe Walsh, as if they’d would uphold or restore some mythical golden age of American values and sensible policies.” I
You’re an idiot. No wonder you left your “white” people demographic and married a Jew and you’re kids are being raised that too. You don’t speak for anyone but yourself. The problem is spending and too many liabilities, not “more taxes”. You’re the one who is duped and you don’t understand basic macroeconomics. Supporting the very people that got us into this mess is moronic. At least the Tea Party trying to change the status quo in positive fiscal manner. There is no possible way the USA can tax-its-way out of the holes were in. Your choices are austerity or money-printing.
“I respectfully request that you do your thing and point out every flaw in this place so I feel less bad about losing it”
Is front stonework original, why’s the door so narrow?
North of lawrence so not real lincoln sq.
Decor is fine but that’s what everyone w some moderate design sensibility has been doing last couple years. Going to be dated soon. Style of outside stairs doesn’t seem to go w interior.
Is the basement drainage etc properly dealt with?
Agree that they cheaped out on the kitchen appliances and hood.
tax revenues in Illinois are down 21% despite the 66 percent increase in the income tax rate
“crappy appliances, no chef’s vent hood.”
Who wants a fireplace in their dining room? Or, what do you do with those 3 semi-distinct space in the main room?
Over-mirror lights shouldn’t point up. Master bath is … um … compact, and tile goes to a weird height. 2d bath also compact; floor, counter and tile mismatch; WTF is with the toilet water supply appearing to be tapped off from under teh vanity???!!?!?!
If the garage is only half as ugly as he pic (love the size, tho) than it’s 2x as ugly as is tolerable. Backyard may “allow” amazing, but it’s currently ugly, boring and has mismatched fences. Having to walk thru the *middle* of the garage to take trash out would be major PITA.
Offset front door looks dumb. No covered porch looks dumb and means that front door (if real wood) needs to be refinished every other year. Silly liitle light as focal point of apprach up stairs is a really bad choice. Where is the mailbox? Mullions only in 1st floor windows looks weird. Did the railing fall off a truck from Wacker Drive reconstruction?
Basement carpet too light. Seems no heated floor, making winter use much less likely.
Where is coat closet? Half step up right behind door is not optimal. What’s with the white railing and post? Again, offset door looks dumb. Single can at bottom of stairs = dark stairs, dark entry area at night. No blinds/curtains on any of the windows is a downer (yea, you want to pick your own–then you end up living like that, or with temporary shades taped in, for 9+ months).
White marble looks nice, but notsogood if you really cook and want it to stay looking nice. Appliances, as noted, mediocre. Oven should have been on the end, with a real hood, and micro tucked into peninsula/island. Peninsula should be island for dual access to kitchen area, esp if that is pantry in rear. Kitchen seems basically open to back part of the 50′ long tri-zone living area–do you really want that? And, if so, don’t you want the kitchen to be more open than it is? Sapce above cabinets collects (a) dust and grease, (b) crap like “EAT”, “JOY” or “decorative crap that ain’t cheap”, or (c) both. Doesn’t look like enough lighting in the kitchen.
“tax revenues in Illinois are down 21%”
Um, cite, please. And don’t say “down from 2007”. Needs to be “down from projection for 2012 (or 2013) absent the increase”.
“Supporting the very people that got us into this mess is moronic”
Yeah, lets cut off all the old f’ers who have extracted Trillions for added medical care. Food stamps are penny ante BS compared to what the oldster take out, but they just want the Government to keep their hands off of Medicare (Hence Romney promising “no cuts”, while the Ryan budget required large reductions in scheduled Medicare (which, for practical purposes, includes Caid, as that pays much of LTC costs) expenditures).
Helmet hoofer I suggest you read up on the following:
http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/
DZ (November 7, 2012, 10:24 am)
[4032 Lawler]: I guess they believe in the obtuse kitchen triangles. Now, I’m no contractor/architect, but couldn’t the stove have been moved into the main area with the back area used for pantry or something else?”
Guess it depends where the gas lines are and/or how hard it is to move them.
Wow, you guys really are great at pointing out everything that was wrong with it. Thanks!
“The guy is beyond crooked and you give him or his family props?” – Read closely as I was not giving any props to Jesse sr or jr. They seem pretty slimy. I was only talking about Yusef.
“it’s like jp3 is his jzekas” – Fair enough but the media is even hard on him at times. I do not know him well but my dealings with him show that he seems to be a honest guy with high integrity. Perhaps he should have been the first son with the golden ticket political name.
“Which likely makes jp3 a Cav” – No I did not teach at or choose any of the schools he attended. Just saying that he is not a typical son of a rich and famous father that expected the world to kiss his ass. Sure he used connections to get a great business started but he has also hung onto it for years. InterBev could and would have fired him for non-performance had he failed.
“Sure he used connections to get a great business started but he has also hung onto it for years. InterBev could and would have fired him for non-performance had he failed.”
Connections?! Try extortion to get the deal. Jesse Sr. has ensured he will never lose the distributorship (you should really read Shakedown, it’s an excellent look at all of BS from Senior. BTW, the son does not do any of the day to day business. He’s a figurehead installed by Senior and this is a cash cow for the whole clan.
Please stop blaming Bush. He was reelected 8 years ago. This is Obama. Bush did spend too much but Obama’s outspending Bush. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
The cost of entitlements, which include the medicaids, snap, wic, section 8, link, social security, and now obamacare, is way too high. All of the above are in precarious situations where there are reduced numbers of people earning money to pay for the benefits and increased numbers of people taking the benefits. That’s one of the many reasons we’re $16,000,000,000,000 in national debt.
The fact of the matter is that there’s been a cultural change. There’s been a change from the days of the past, where households only bought things they could afford, they worked hard, and saved and had some semblance of family values. Not the leave it to beaver type of family of course, but some semblance of two parent households and living within their means.
Today is a society where over half of all children are born out of wedlock. Studies have shown over and over that a two parent household is far superior to a one parent household, with test scores, income, wealth, stability, crime,. education, etc. In today’s day in society with the pill and condoms and all the other forms of birth control, including abortion, theres no reason why any should have a child out of wedlock. None, zero. Yet they do, over half of all children. Most of these households DO NOT end up married – they end up in the CL level of the daley center doing child support. It’s a zoo down there, all these losers who cant keep their wang in their parents knocking up women indiscriminately. They just dont care. They usually have lower pay, they can barely afford to take care of themselves, and now as fathers they’re forced to support two households, and government makes up a lot of the different. They choose to live in bad areas (even though rents are expensive in bad areas due to risk) with awful schools and gangs, and then cycle repeats itself over and over again. It happens in white, black, hispanic asian areas, all over the city. Back in the day people got married if they got knocked up. TOday it’s celebrated and the moment they show up at the hopsital (usually without insurance) they get signed up for medicaid kidscare on the spot, so coverage is effective immediately.
I know I sound like an old man here, but times are changing, even in my lifetime. A good friend of mine from high school had two children with two different men and she dropped out of U of I to do so. It’s a cultural change, a shift in values that doesn’t necessarily promote wealth, or moving one up in society. I’m not a crotchety old man who can’t accept change; I can accept change, however, I’m allowed to have an opinion as to the change. You have to be blind to see it, things just aren’t going to be OK.
That’s why nearly one-half of the country hates barack obama and sees him as the second coming of the anti-christ. the issues that used to matter – i.e. abortion, social issues, fiscal issue – they no longer matter to a large percentage of the population, because they’re concerned with getting amnesty, or finding health insurance, or getting food stamps (over 50 of children are on food stamps at some point during childhood)
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5huS1aDImykHCJxUuyNW-fbMSAbMA
Many americans look around and they can’t recognize america anymore. It’s full of lots of illegitimate poor children running around with bad test scores, most of whom will probably never enter the middle class, given our low class mobility. OF course old crotchety republicans in whitetopia are interested in abortion issues b/c they’ve never worried about food stamps, or amnesty, or bad schools, or gangs, or the kidscare, or gun control with idiot gangbangers killing their neighbors. My uncle used to bring a gun to PUBLIC school in the 1960’s for rifle class after school – and no one thought twice about it. Imagine that today. Back then we had real issues to worry about, like the Russians or the Germans, or segregation.
The needlessly knocking republicans and calling them all tea partiers is ridiculous, just as is the needlessly lamenting the democrats as profligate freaks is too. The fact is that Barack Obama represents a new america – a poorer america, an america with far far different issues than the generations of people that were here even as recently as 15 years ago. And it’s difficult to understand, and many keep asking, where did america go. there are some urban liberals (the minority in most cases) like annony who recognize the new america but misguidedly believe that the republicans are the source of the problem. THe source of the problem is america itself folks.
And of course, poorer people can only afford cheaper housing; and the richer folks want to be as far away as possible from the poor folk, which is why it’s $300 per sq ft or higher in LP/LV whitetopia for housing; and less than a few blocks down fullerton it’s less than $80; and further south in working class places like Dolton, etc it’s roughly $20 psf for housing. Absurd if you ask me, but that’s the way it is. It’s the bifurcated market, shrinking middle class, even as my former suburb go to hell in a handbasket. asking prices in my old neighborhood in teh suburbs are about what they were in the mid-90’s because the neighorhood has been overrun with the poor.
[Sabrina} “For all of you complaining about the “boring” properties I’ve been featuring, please send me tips. I’ll be glad to cover other “interesting” properties.”
I would be thankful if we could see more multi-unit properties on here, especially in non “GZ” neighborhoods.
Damn- remind me not to have anon critique my house. He just torn that sh*t up.
I don’t know if it applies, hear mixed reviews on McPherson. Probably looking at 12k/yr (per kid) at North Park. But you WILL be walking distance to Lycee Francais when it moves.
HD, your view that “It doesn’t really matter who is president” puts you in company with Gore Vidal & Henry Adams. Here’s Gore Vidal:
“I cannot remember when I was not fascinated by Henry Adams. I was brought up in Washington; belonged to a political family; and used often to pass the site of the house where Adams had lived in Lafayette Park, just opposite the White House.
Once I asked Eleanor Roosevelt if she had known Henry Adams, who died in 1918. “Oh, yes! He was such a kind man, so good with the children. They would crawl all over him when he sat in his Victoria. He was very…tolerant. But,” and she frowned, “we did not agree politically. I remember the first time we went to his house. My Franklin had just come to Washington” (as assistant secretary of the navy) “and I of course was very shy then and could never get the courage to speak up, particularly with someone so much older. Well, my Franklin made some remark about President Wilson, about how well he was doing. And Mr. Adams just laughed at him and pointed toward the White House and said, ‘Young man, it doesn’t make the slightest difference who lives in that house, history goes on with or without the president.’ Well, I just couldn’t keep quiet. ‘Mr. Adams,’ I said, ‘that is a very terrible thing to say to a young man who wants to go into politics and be of use to other people.’ Oh, I made quite a speech.”
“And what did Mr. Adams say?”
“I can’t remember. I think he just laughed at me. We were always good friends.”
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/1976/apr/01/the-adams-fall-ii/
‘Young man, it doesn’t make the slightest difference who lives in that house, history goes on with or without the president.’
Well that’s a crock of BS. FDR knew about the Katyn massacre and still decided to ally with Stalin. He know about Stalin and he lied to Americans, and sold us that Stalin was “Uncle Joe”. That quote above is false.
meant: FDR knew that Stalin was a mass murderer, and he hid it from Americans by telling us Stalin was some nice Uncle Joe. Disgusting.
“I would be thankful if we could see more multi-unit properties on here, especially in non “GZ” neighborhoods.”
dude- what does that mean? Portage Park? Beverly? Albany Park 3-flats? 8-unit building?
A lot of the multi-units in the outer neighborhoods are, frankly, pretty boring. Many are foreclosures. Lots don’t have interior pics listed on line. They’re all brick and laid out pretty much the same. Investors are scooping them up, if they’re priced right.
Send me some examples to my e-mail.
Helmet I disagree with you because it’s not race – it’s socioeconomic ie honey boo boo. Your anti Semitic tirades don’t help you prove your point either. How can you blame Jewish people for wanting to live with Jews, or another socioeconomic class and race living segregated with each other? How many jewishbabies are born out of wedlock?
The rich have always isolate themselves. That’s why they had villas and estates and castles away from the masses. Nothing is new except for the existence of the middle class which has more or less been an anonolmy throughout most of history. And it’s disappearing for cultural and economic reasons. Missing fathers and the entire child support system ( which didn’t become available until the 1970s because it wasn’t a problem much before then) and deadbeat dads. I’m not saying it was up utopia but those values promoted middle class living ie and advancement. Today social mobility is low when a good chunk of the population has a child support garnishment out of their paycheck. It’s hard to get ahead when you are broke and have to support dependents for 18 years through a brick in your paycheck. Combine that with the fact that the 1% has amassed and spend Nearly 70% of the consumer spending market and its not difficult to see why the middle class is just a tiny blip in the history of mankind. America will still be a great place with lots of money but its not the America of our parents. Out parents didn’t worry about Latin kings or awful schools where 70% of kids drop out or out of wedlock births was a major problem. It’s completely different issues that face young people today and Obama taps into that, to horror of the large minority of white voters who fail to recognize America and understand that the future may not be and definitely has not been as prosperous as the past.
“The fact is that Barack Obama represents a new america – a poorer america, an america with far far different issues than the generations of people that were here even as recently as 15 years ago. And it’s difficult to understand, and many keep asking, where did america go. there are some urban liberals (the minority in most cases) like annony who recognize the new america but misguidedly believe that the republicans are the source of the problem. THe source of the problem is america itself folks.”
I’ve never heard so much pessimism and bullsh*t in my whole life.
This is the old “this time it’s different” and “this generation doesn’t know what work is” bullsh*t.
You act like there weren’t poor people when everyone got married! WTF! And to say we aren’t better off now than, hell, in the 1920s and 1930s- is so, so wrong. Back then, they knew what it meant to actually BE hungry.
But there is now a big divide among rich and the middle class and it’s growing wider. How do you expand the middle class after 30 years of manufacturing and middle class job destruction? There’s some areas that America is best in the world in and no one can compete with us- such as farming and heck, even oil drilling. But you DO need a high school education (and probably something even more) to compete in those areas. You have to learn skills. Sometimes you have to apprentice. It takes time and patience and yes, sometimes young people don’t have either.
The unemployment rate for those with a college education right now over the age of 25 is 3.8%. That’s basically full employment. We were down that low during the dot-com boom. But if you don’t have a high school degree- it’s over 12%. How do you get people more education? How do you tell them “hey- you’re screwed unless you have at least an associates degree?”
I have relatives who graduated high school but didn’t go to college. They work as cashiers at WalMart. I’m not kidding. And no, they can’t afford to pay for clothes for themeselves or their kids. They bunk with several generations in the same house- because they can’t afford their own apartment (let alone a house.) I agree with you on one thing HD- it IS a reversal. They are living as my ancestors did who came over from Europe in 1900 with several generations in the one 2-flat on Chicago’s west side. It is a slide in living standards. They are NOT going to move higher than their parents. But it starts with education.
I’m not a pessimist about America. I’m still a believer in the American dream because I’ve seen it come true too many times. But the door still has to be open for some to walk through. It can’t be shut completely.
“There were three other bids in addition to mine, and all three were above the asking price. Cribchatter commentariat, I respectfully request that you do your thing and point out every flaw in this place so I feel less bad about losing it (I already feel bad enough about the election).”
Sad_at_Plaza440: Why are you looking right now? There is absolutely NOTHING on the market in Lincoln Square. I don’t even look up there for cribs for the site. Not surprised to see this went under contract right away for that reason. It’s basically “new.” And buyers LOVE that.
I don’t understand paying this for north of Lawrence- but that’s just my preference.
I also hate it when they gut vintage and remove all the walls so there is NO floorplan. The entire first floor is one big wasted space. There is no designated dining room (even though no one really uses one anymore anyway.) They set it up with two living rooms. Can you imagine living with it like that? Um…no. So you’ll put your living room furniture in there and maybe a dining room table and that is it. It will be a bunch of wasted space (since the “real” family room is in the lower level.)
You can do better.
Sad at Plaza, looking at the prior sale history, I am deeply suspicious about the lower level and what’s there to deal with water. Tiles? Ejector pump? What motivation did this seller have to deal with that or other important, expensive, but adds no monetary value to buyers stuff like exterior plumbing? (which can easily need work in a vintage property and is pricey but people expect to be there in good shape). The garage appears to need masonry work and if it was allowed to go in visible area, suspicious of that and the house itself. Dangerous to be entranced by reno’d inside and then have to deal with all of the practical stuff one doesn’t know about if moving from a condo. I love my house but if I could do it all over again, I would have paid the $2,500 or so for a report from an Environ type place including pics of stuff we can’t see like parapets and gotten all exterior plumbing scoped. The turns out to be “does mostly condos” inspector we had was useless. My point: invisible but necessary stuff could easily be an issue with this property and with other offers, you were going to have to take or leave. It’s a lovely home but if you have to do expensive exterior work or deal with lower level water control, it isn’t quite so lovely. Trust me.
“Society has changed. People are poorer, less likely to get married, more likely to get divorced, having children out of wedlock.”
Nope. Divorce rates have actually gone down in the last few years. Having kids out of wedlock, I agree with you, has gone up. But many people don’t see the need to get married anymore- no matter what the race or socio-economic level. There are too many celebrity examples of this (for good or bad)- including Brad and Angelina. But you are right- HD- that you are almost guaranteed to be struggling if you are a single parent (no matter what means- if you were never married, married and divorced or widowed.) For women, single motherhood almost guarantees you’ll declare bankruptcy.
One salary just can’t compete against two. And if that one salary is laid off- the family unit is screwed. 40 years ago, when not as many women worked, households lived off of one salary- the man’s. If he was laid off, the wife could go to work to help the family, even at a reduced rate, until the husband found another job. But now, with two salaries in many families, they live to the maximum of each.
How many married people with both spouses working on this blog bought their house based only on ONE of the salaries? They don’t. So if one is laid off- the family unit is pretty much screwed (just like the single mother). No back-up plan. Expenses are geared toward a two salary family.
Housing costs are part of the culprit. You need both salaries to buy the $400,000 2/2, right?
“Out parents didn’t worry about Latin kings or awful schools where 70% of kids drop out or out of wedlock births was a major problem.”
What generation are you talking about HD?
The baby boomers? Yeah- the 1960s were sooooo great. Vietnam War with thousands dying. Riots in cities. Leaders assassinated. The Klan. Women who couldn’t go to law school or medical school. They were lucky they went to secretarial school. Segregation of everything. The 1970s weren’t much better. Super high inflation. Cities sucked (NY nearly bankrupt.) Power outages. Oil crisis.
Who said the schools were great in the 1970s? Plenty of failure back then too. Divorce rate skyrocketing.
It’s a bunch of crap whenever someone says, “it was so much easier then.” You couldn’t pay me, as a woman, to have come of age in the 1960s or 1970s. Right now, we have a black president and a woman secretary of state and a woman running Germany. I wouldn’t want to live in ANY other era.
“any predictions on Interest Rates now that the election is over?”
Here’s a funny prediction on interest rates from Feb 11, 2011, when the 10-year Treasury yielded ~ 3.50%.
“I also think a wild card are interest rates. They have nowhere to go but up- and could do so quite dramatically.”
http://cribchatter.com/?p=10038#comment-131959
I kid because I love.
I don’t mean to imply that it was better in the 1960s. It’s just that they had different issues to worry about. Today’s poor have to worry about food and insurance and gAngs and guns things that earlier generations did not. Abortion was a big deal for somebody in the 1970s but today it doesn’t matter they younger generation wants amnesty. There’s a huge disconnect a really big disconnect. Nobody’s worried about being drafted into foreign war. Younger people are more worried about getting health insurance coverage for paying for college.
“I also think a wild card are interest rates. They have nowhere to go but up- and could do so quite dramatically.”
ha! ha! Thanks for the memory Wojo.
I still think they have nowhere to go but up- but what do I know? It’s now looking like we’re going to be Japan with interest rates low for decades and a housing market mired in a slump for the same amount of time.
Thanks again, all on 4910 N. Winchester. You’ve pointed out a lot of issues that I’ll look for in the future.
H — I was worried about both the basement and the prior sales history. To my understanding, what happened was that in 2007 the then-owner undertook an extensive rehabbing project, which included excavating the cellar to turn it into a basement and extending the back of the house by eight feet. Then we can all guess what happened: owner ran out of money, stopped making payments, and the house sat empty forever while foreclosure was happening. When foreclosed finally occurred, a developer bought the house at auction and finished off the renovation.
The stop-start nature of the renovations, the addition on the back of the house, and the long time the house sat empty made me very nervous. Also odd was at the back of the basement in a mud room there was this giant cubic hump that was tiled over, with no idea what was under there (was it just dirt? If so, why didn’t the developer excavate it to have a normal room?)
Sabrina — thanks for your comments, too. We’ve been looking at LP/LV and just had difficulty finding anything we liked that was decently priced, so the search has kept creeping northward.
“You couldn’t pay me, as a woman, to have come of age in the 1960s or 1970s. Right now, we have a black president and a woman secretary of state and a woman running Germany. I wouldn’t want to live in ANY other era.”
LOL, tell that to most women. You think they want to be working 45 hours a week with long commutes? think they like leaving their kids with nannies at 7:30 in the morning? Think they like not being around their own children? yeah, maybe “you” have your own opinion, but most women I know would rather NOT HAVE TO WORK. Only if, they think, they could’ve landed that guy with lots and lots of money….
The single girls? Too bad for them, they have to put out by the third date, and even if they do, the guys will be onto the next conquest anyway, that’s the world that’s been created. Better get that bottle of Pinot Grigio and a half-pack of smokes, and a movie. That’s many girls’ date night in Chicago.
I think helmethofer just won the internet.
“most women I know would rather NOT HAVE TO WORK”
I know basically no one–male, female, black, white, brown, jew, gentile, atheist, buddhist, muslim–who wouldn’t prefer to not *have to* work. Many of them *would* work, but that’s different.
“You’ve pointed out a lot of issues that I’ll look for in the future.”
I was being picky harsh bc you asked. Also, familiar with a number of the issues from direct experience.
On the drain tile/flood control issue, it’s easy enough to figure out, if you get someone who knows how to use their drain cam, AND what to look for. Prob need to get a sewer guy, rather than a “regular” inspector.
The “eight foot addition” has all the indications of an old enclosed porch built out–weird partial walls, etc, indicating that they didn’t remove the entirety of the original brick wall. Nothing inherently wrong with that, but another thing to look at carefully and be aware of (as in this place, you wouldn’t be able to shift the kitchen further to the rear without *major* structural work).
“Half-pack of smokes?” Oh Helmut, how mid-20th-century! Nowadays a single gal’s movie night includes a pint of Ben & Jerry’s (preferably something with lots of chocolate in it) and/or a bag of microwave popcorn. And maybe the company of another single gal a-la Mary and Rhoda. And it’s a matter of CHOICE not CHANCE. We are no longer in the era of Dorothy Parker’s monologue of the desperate wanna-be-housewife who pleads with the telephone to please start ringing with good tidings from a new suitor.
“all these losers who cant keep their wang in their parents knocking up women indiscriminately. ”
best typo in a while. back in the old days when nort center was filled with incestuous hillbillys, life was good
Sabrina – Several sources have been telling us that the divorce rate is “going down,” at least among the affluent classes, and I am puzzled as to why. Have we suddenly (re)discovered the “magic bullet” that will keep husband and wife together forever until death do they part? Or perhaps because of the current economy people need to “stay put” at least for a while?
One wag, far more cynical than I, opined some time ago that there’s really no need for rich folks to get divorced since they can always make “arrangements” for separate lives, homes, etc. while “keeping up appearances” of marital bliss when necessary. He can have his mistress, she can have her paramour, and they can have their joint bank accounts intact.
“tax revenues in Illinois are down 21% despite the 66 percent increase in the income tax rate”
“Um, cite, please. And don’t say “down from 2007?. Needs to be “down from projection for 2012 (or 2013) absent the increase”.”
Yes I would like to see the source for this or understand what the time frame for this is.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-07-03/news/sns-rt-illinois-budgetl2e8i3ele-20120703_1_income-tax-tax-rate-tax-collections
Personal income tax collections were up $4.7 billion or 38.2
percent in fiscal 2012, while corporate taxes climbed $706
million or 31 percent, according to the Commission on Government
Forecasting and Accountability. Sales tax collections rose by
$393 million or 5.8 percent.
“I know basically no one–male, female, black, white, brown, jew, gentile, atheist, buddhist, muslim–who wouldn’t prefer to not *have to* work. Many of them *would* work, but that’s different.”
To be fair, I would rather not work, with the huge caveat that I had millions in savings and investments.
“To be fair, I would rather not work, with the huge caveat that I had millions in savings and investments.”
The Hof (I realize you may have intentionally skipped) said as much in the line after the one I quoted: “Only if, they think, they could’ve landed that guy with lots and lots of money….”–all the women he knows would quit working if they were “rich”–just like you or I would. It ain’t a “womanly” dream–it’s a near-universal dream.
I think its more about the economy that people can’t afford to get divorced, and the law has changed so that the man gets bent over way harder, more than people actually “getting along” better…. i’d imagine the rate will go up again when the economy improves (8 years from now or whenever we get booming again)
“I’m not a pessimist about America. I’m still a believer in the American dream because I’ve seen it come true too many times. But the door still has to be open for some to walk through. It can’t be shut completely.”
I think the problem is that the media doesn’t differentiate between legal and illegal immigrants but just lumps them all together under the blanket term “immigrants”.
As a legal immigrant who came through the right way – which was extremely time consuming, expensive and even heart-breaking at times, I’m shocked at the huge numbers of unskilled ILLEGAL immigrants in NY and CHI would can’t even speak English but are obviously quite adept at procreating, navigating the social benefits system and sustaining their lifestyles at the taxpayers’ expense. This is the demographic Obama caters to and I too feel completely pessimistic about our future along with HD and Dannyhofer.
“How many married people with both spouses working on this blog bought their house based only on ONE of the salaries? They don’t. So if one is laid off- the family unit is pretty much screwed (just like the single mother). No back-up plan. Expenses are geared toward a two salary family.”
I feel like this is one of the biggest mistakes I have ever made. We could probably deal with it if one of us were laid off or became disabled, but it would be extraordinarily painful. People who think all women want to stay home are dreaming – regardless of how you feel about childcare and/or how rewarding your job is, many women (including myself) are simply not willing to risk dependency on one income given the world today.
“[Milkster]”
Let’s have another Chinese Exlcusion Act, dammit, but this time apply it to everyone who isn’t coming in with above median US wealth. Revive the No Nothing Party!!! To the ramparts, boys and girls!!
“And it’s a matter of CHOICE not CHANCE.”
Sure it is, sure it is. As long as you’re under 30. There is roughly 1 single, educated, marriage eligible and marriage seeking man over the age of 35 in this town for every 10 comparable women.
anon(tfo) — you definitely have my appreciation for your extensive comments. You’re also correct that the eight foot additional was the build out of an enclosed porch. There is a partial wall on the first floor near the back of the house that’s weirdly placed and splits the area across from the kitchen; I was told it was structural so could not be removed.
since we are sooooooo outside the lines…
we should all be a part of the new economy. SEO, video marketing, inbound marketing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLk3AWskQw0
anyways…all in good fun Jay Z
Anon –
Many of the questions they ask when you come in the legal way relate to whether or not you will be able support yourself and obtain gainful employment.
There is also an extensive criminal background check and health screening including an HIV and TB test.
Actually Anon, my mom came over first because she was sponsored by her employer.
They had to advertise the job she held for something like 30 or 60 days to make sure there were no qualified American applicants.
After that, she was able to get my dad in and then me because I was under 21.
It is extremely difficult to come over the legal way.
“It is extremely difficult to come over the legal way.”
Which is stupid in its own right. Our immigration laws are simultaneously too lax and too restrictive. It’s horrible, horrible policy, however you choose to look at it.
I also just wanted to add that the Obama administration comes down WAY too hard on small businesses. They should be encouraging anyone to do business in the US which will create jobs and a broader tax base.
Question: where have all the good men gone? Why are there so many single females but so few unmarried males? it doesn’t make much sense.
“And it’s a matter of CHOICE not CHANCE.”
Sure it is, sure it is. As long as you’re under 30. There is roughly 1 single, educated, marriage eligible and marriage seeking man over the age of 35 in this town for every 10 comparable women.
Oh yeah its certainly not the woman’s fault /rollseyes
“H — I was worried about both the basement and the prior sales history. To my understanding, what happened was that in 2007 the then-owner undertook an extensive rehabbing project, which included excavating the cellar to turn it into a basement and extending the back of the house by eight feet. Then we can all guess what happened: owner ran out of money, stopped making payments, and the house sat empty forever while foreclosure was happening. When foreclosed finally occurred, a developer bought the house at auction and finished off the renovation.
The stop-start nature of the renovations, the addition on the back of the house, and the long time the house sat empty made me very nervous. Also odd was at the back of the basement in a mud room there was this giant cubic hump that was tiled over, with no idea what was under there (was it just dirt? If so, why didn’t the developer excavate it to have a normal room?)”
Sad at Plaza, very interesting. You wanted to feel better…. I think you totally can. The developer wasn’t going to touch the floor downstairs with the proverbial ten-foot pole bc he didn’t want to know what was under there. It can’t be anything good given your description and who knows why it’s doing that. If the prior owner was in financial trouble, you can bet what kinds of choices were being made while work was winding down. The whole extension thing seems worrisome, and as you note, having the house sit vacant and then having someone breeze in and add surface finishes can and very likely will leave someone with some bad surprises. Could not agree with Anon’s (I think) comment about scoping everything possible w/in an inch of its life and I repeat my prior advice– sure, have a home inspector to go around and turn faucets on and off, but pay up and hire someone who’s disinterested and expert to do a full report on the entire property. Knowledge is power and since you will be on the hook if you buy, better to know — good or bad — what you’re getting yourself into as much as possible so you can act accordingly. Good luck in your search!! The right place is out there for you and your family. Nothing is problem free, but you don’t want to buy a ticking time bomb, either.
Oops. Couldn’t agree MORE with Anon’s comment re scoping!
as far as people I know mid 30s and older, the single women are generally much higher quality than the single guys. one old friend is in his 40s, a virgin, lives with his parents and has been unemployed for at least 5yrs. If anyone can top that, male or female, I’d like to hear it.
“in his 40s, a virgin, lives with his parents and has been unemployed for at least 5yrs”
So, he’s in the prime of his middle years, STD free, close to family, and would make a great stay at home spouse. The ladies are toooo picky.
The guys in my 30’s I know have baggage. Booze, kids, qualities of neer’do’wells, etc.
“one old friend is in his 40s, a virgin, lives with his parents and has been unemployed for at least 5yrs.”
I had no idea that you were once friends with matthewlesko
“Half-pack of smokes?” Oh Helmut, how mid-20th-century! Nowadays a single gal’s movie night includes a pint of Ben & Jerry’s (preferably something with lots of chocolate in it) and/or a bag of microwave popcorn. And maybe the company of another single gal a-la Mary and Rhoda. And it’s a matter of CHOICE not CHANCE. We are no longer in the era of Dorothy Parker’s monologue of the desperate wanna-be-housewife who pleads with the telephone to please start ringing with good tidings from a new suitor.
“I know basically no one–male, female, black, white, brown, jew, gentile, atheist, buddhist, muslim–who wouldn’t prefer to not *have to* work. Many of them *would* work, but that’s different.”
LOL!!!!!
Go walk around the Loop, you see tons of married and single girls taking smoke-breaks from their crappy pathetic office jobs. Go ride the Blue or Red Line and look at their faces….you think these people WANT to be doing what they’re doing? Esp. the women?? Women now work until they’re 36 weeks pregnant.
Give me a break. A bunch of suckers sold on the idea they can be Hillary Clinton or Frau Merkel. It’s over one in a million chance, plus Hillary’s husband still cheats on her. And, as I said if you’re lucky enough to land Diane Sawyer’s or Hillary’s job….you’re going to be working for the rest of your life. The feminists’ have given you these odds and expectation. Too bad. Alot of these Loop women look like crap, and why not? When do they have time to rest, work-out, eat right, etc.? It’s even worse in the suburban office complexes, they’re the women have gotten obese on top of everything else. Single girls in Chicago are putting themselves at risk of never getting married at all, Ben & Jerry should come up with a Chardonnay flavored ice-cream, that would solve both single girl cravings (ice-cream, getting numbed w/ alcohol) at once.
“So, he’s in the prime of his middle years, STD free, close to family, and would make a great stay at home spouse. The ladies are toooo picky.”
ahaha. that is a good spin.
“The guys in my 30?s I know have baggage. Booze, kids, qualities of neer’do’wells, etc”
I have one of those too, minus the kids. I also have a 400 pounder with a speech impediment and coke bottle glasses. Though not a virgin (he bangs cheap hookers), last heard he was trying to borrow $500 to put his stuff in storage pre-eviction.
“you think these people WANT to be doing what they’re doing? Esp. the women?? ”
So, you saying you’d still go to work doing what you do now if you came into $10mm?
helmet’s on a roll today. hard to top that chardonnay ice cream.
I get the feeling, from reading all of his comments here, that Helmet thinks he’s better than everyone. Take it from me, Helmet, you’re not. Instead of focusing on what you say are the “pathetic” lives of so many others, take a look at your own pathetic life and try to change.
I’d eat that.
As for the real-life “40-year old virgin,” I would guess he has some serious personal issues,and if I were a woman, I’d stay far away from him. He apparently is unable to form any serious attachments emotionally. I’m guessing he could be borderline autistic.
i dont know much about autism but if you met him you’d have no idea. at least for a while. then maybe some mildly odd quirks might be noticed. but nothing as alarming as his situation. best diagnosis I’ve heard is social anxiety disorder.
“Ben & Jerry should come up with a Chardonnay flavored ice-cream, that would solve both single girl cravings (ice-cream, getting numbed w/ alcohol) at once.”
genius idea!
“Single girls in Chicago are putting themselves at risk of never getting married at all”
Come on helmet, you know it isn’t their fault. The numbers are stacked against them. First, the number of homosexual men is far higher than the number of homosexual women and that hurts the odds badly. The women who graduate from Big Ten universities (and Miami of Ohio and Northern Illinois) come to Chicago in far greater numbers than the men. The producers of Sex and the City showed these women that it is a great idea to move to the big city, engage in a bunch of sex acts with strangers (give away the milk for free, if you will), enjoy a Sunday brunch and aspire to build your collection of high end shoes to complement your shoebox sized apartment in a rodent infested walkup building. And there are plenty of Mr. Bigs out there, they cannot just settle for anyone when Mr. Big might show up 2 days after the wedding to the nerd.
But importantly, as educational levels and earning power have increased for women, the dating pool has shrunk because only a total beta of a man would ever marry a lady who outearns him (unless it is Oprah or something, of course). A professional woman earning a good salary doesn’t want to marry some bottom feeding schlub annuity/whole life salesman from Northwestern Mutual or some Big Ten grad who is managing a bar in Wrigleyville or waiting tables. They want a managing director, a biglaw/Big 4 partner or a doctor. Of course, almost all of those guys all got married to some hot gal 10 years ago, so that shrinks the pool somewhat, too. But settling for a schlub is way worse than giving up.
I do agree that people wait too long to get married these days. The average age, especially for professionals, keeps going up, and is now around 30. For too many people, career gets a higher priority than relationships, and then you end up with these people in their late-30’s who are well off financially and career-wise, but are getting a very late start on marriage/kids and feel they have to settle for whoever else is left around and available.
Some do get married and have kids in their late-30’s, early 40’s, and perhaps that’s fine for them. But there’s something to be said for getting an early start. Kids are a huge challenge, and you have more stamina to deal with them when you’re younger. My kids are heading into their teen years, and it doesn’t get any easier. I love them both and enjoy them immensely; on the other hand, I’m looking forward to the prospect of having them be adults when I’m in my early 50s, leaving my wife and me with the freedom that brings.
Now, it’s true, because we started early, we didn’t have that freedom in our 20’s and 30’s, as the people who wait do. On the other hand, I get the feeling that people who wait don’t fully enjoy that early freedom, because they’re so stressed out about their careers and the fact that the biological clock is ticking and they haven’t settled down.
Women can have careers and eat their cake too. It’s balance. And it gives dual income households a comfortable lifestyle I can’t find the link now but 75% of all households in America earning over $100,000 a year have dual incomes. Yes, many areas require dual incomes, but many areas don’t. It’s perfectly acceptable to live in a tiny 2 bedroom or 3 bedroom house in Des Plaines on a tiny lot, or in a town home in Mt. Prospect, but educated folks pay premiums to live in whitetopia, and they are some hefty premiums too. Regardless, Liz warren calls it a double income trap, but my household is over $100,000 and it’s not all that bad. Kids actually enjoy all day preschool and do art projects, socialize with other kids, learn new words and stories. Moms who stay home are the ones who eat champagne flavored ice cream and bitch about how bored tehy are. one of my buddy with a stay at home wife sarcsastically says that his wife watches *Everything* on TV because there’s nothing else to do all day with a 4 year old especially in winter. Nothing wrong with staying home, but don’t expect it to be the most stimulating of lifestyles.
Furthermore, kids eventuaually go to school, and you wnat them involved in after school activities, because if they’re not involved in something – theather, band, debate, whatever, then they’re at home doing god knows what with god knows who. Like the kid in Homeland who smokes dope with her loser BF while mom is out working all day. Get that kid into chess or cmputer science club for god’s sake and pick them up from school at 5:05 every day.
sabrina,
1. I know you’ve talked about this before, but I wish CC still offered unique hyperlinks to individual comments. Without them it’s easier for inanities (mine included) to pass quietly & uncriticized into the night.
2. I work in an office with 200+ people, many of whom I’ve persuaded to become CC readers. I learned recently, however, that if just one coworker gives a thumbs-up to a comment, they’ve effectively cast the only vote granted to our IP address. This is unfortunate, as there’s little consensus among us regarding the merits of comments. If you’ll permit our IP more than one vote, I’ll promise not to vote more than once or twice.
“Now, it’s true, because we started early, we didn’t have that freedom in our 20?s and 30?s, as the people who wait do. On the other hand, I get the feeling that people who wait don’t fully enjoy that early freedom, because they’re so stressed out about their careers and the fact that the biological clock is ticking and they haven’t settled down”
Hmm, let me think back to my 20’s…let’s see…searching, searching…trying to recall whether I didn’t fully enjoy the freedom or if I was stressed about my career…nope, nothing’s coming to me. I might regret some things from that period (e.g., instead of merely spending lots of time on the west coast, I should have lived there for a while and learned to surf; I should have pursued more outdoor adventures in other countries; and I should have found a way to buy land in what are now fully developed resort communities, when it was practically being given away), but stressing about my career (let alone getting married and starting a family) wasn’t among them. I’ll readily grant that having kids 10+ years sooner would have been easier in terms of stamina, and I’ll likely need to work into my 70’s to make up for a “lost decade,” but there are simply things that a twenty-something’s body is better equiped for than a 50-something’s.
“I still think [interest rates] have nowhere to go but up- but what do I know? It’s now looking like we’re going to be Japan with interest rates low for decades and a housing market mired in a slump for the same amount of time.”
I’ve long agreed with you @ housing prices. But I’ve never understood why you would think housing would continue falling while at the same time thinking interest rates would rise. How that could happen? If interest rates suddenly increased, wouldn’t that only send asset values lower? I suppose it’s imaginable a run on the USD could exert upward pressure on rates, but I’d guess even then the Fed/Treasury would do nothing, since they want a weaker USD and more inflation.
Like you, I don’t see cause for optimism. We’re only in year 6 of the bubble’s deflation, and we’re only on QE 4. Japan’s been slumping for 20 years and just announced QE 9 two weeks ago, so this headline is dated:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/9554131/Japan-launches-QE8-as-20-year-slump-drags-on.html
Good post, annony, but remember, the 50s are the new 30s. At least that’s my plan.
“If you’ll permit our IP more than one vote, I’ll promise not to vote more than once or twice.”
This is the first I’ve heard of this. It’s just a widget that is added. I’m not sure I can alter it, to be honest.
About the hyperlinks- I know people have complained but that was changed in the redesign and I’m not sure what it would take to re-do it.
“Liz warren calls it a double income trap, but my household is over $100,000 and it’s not all that bad. Kids actually enjoy all day preschool and do art projects, socialize with other kids, learn new words and stories.”
I read that book. She’s the one who brings out the point that the rise in housing costs has forced both spouses to work so there is no longer a safety net there. You live up to the salary of BOTH wage-earners. There’s nothing wrong with a family living off of one salary- but very, very few do it. They live off of both. (And I am NOT making any judgment on working mothers- I’m only talking financially.) So if one gets laid off or there is a divorce, it is now impossible to maintain the lifestyle. That is a different development than in the 1970s and 1980s when far less was spent on housing and when far fewer women worked so they were the back-up.
The point of her book, HD, and why it’s a “trap” is that the thinking went: “oh- women will work and then there will be dual income and the family will be even richer.” But the rise in housing costs (as well as health care and education) meant that it wasn’t a freedom to have the two salaries- families became trapped by it. They live paycheck to paycheck with no safety net.
Lots of families find this out either through a layoff or when the first baby comes and the wife decides NOT to go back to work. The loss of the second income, no matter the size, now completely impacts the family’s ability to survive the day to day bills at their current standard of living.
That’s also why divorce is so devestating financially for the middle class. The two wage earners making a combined $100,000 are doing pretty good. But separately, they can’t buy a house or even live in the same areas they lived while married.
“engage in a bunch of sex acts with strangers (give away the milk for free, if you will)”
But who’s taking the milk PermaBear? All those innocent, church-going men?
Please.
“A professional woman earning a good salary doesn’t want to marry some bottom feeding schlub annuity/whole life salesman from Northwestern Mutual or some Big Ten grad who is managing a bar in Wrigleyville or waiting tables.”
Isn’t there a psychology term for when people project their own fears out there? Isn’t that what this is?
PermaBear: If you MUST bring up Sex & The City, Miranda, who is a Harvard-educated rich lawyer on the show marries a bartender. Or maybe you just missed that part.
“So, you saying you’d still go to work doing what you do now if you came into $10mm?”
Yes. 100% yes. I love my job! I would do it for free.
Anyone who isn’t doing something they love- you all need to re-evaluate your lives. You only are on the earth only one time. This is IT! This is everything. Go live!
We are RICH. Americans are rich. Quit your job and go surf for a year. Travel the world. You can go away for a year with your kids for just $20,000. Sell your car. Sell your home. Go do it.
“Alot of these Loop women look like crap, and why not?”
And how do the men look in the loop out there smoking outside the building? How big are those beer guts at age 35?
Ha! You crack me up Dan.
Women are now 20% of the US Senate. It will, eventually, be at least 50% (in my lifetime.) And hopefully even higher. That’s not one in a million. 75% of vet students are now female. 55% of law students are now female.
Women are inheriting the earth!
“Question: where have all the good men gone? Why are there so many single females but so few unmarried males? it doesn’t make much sense.”
That’s because it isn’t true. Plenty of single men. Go to any Cubs game. Go to any Bears game. Go to any sports bars while a Chicago sports team is playing. Many, many single men.
If you want to be married- you are. It’s not hard. Most people get married to the first person they run across when they decide to get married. It’s the old “the light is on” thing. I knew a guy who was 28 and told me “I want to be married by the time I’m thirty.” What does he do? Meets a woman, they start dating, she moves in and they get engaged. Viola, he’s married just before his 30th birthday. Was he in “love” with her? No. They ended up divorced 4 years later! But she was standing there when he looked around and said, “I want to be married by the age of 30” so she fit the story.
“I’m shocked at the huge numbers of unskilled ILLEGAL immigrants in NY and CHI would can’t even speak English but are obviously quite adept at procreating, navigating the social benefits system and sustaining their lifestyles at the taxpayers’ expense.”
What’s the “lifestyle” exactly? $300 worth of foodstamps? Health insurance for children born here? Wow- what a life of leisure. If they are illegal they won’t qualify for other benefits.
And as far as not learning English- the first generation never learns it. Nothing has changed. My great grandmother came here from Poland. She lived here 40 years and died still not able to read English. She could speak a little though. Instead, she edited one of the local Polish newspapers. Her daughter, my grandmother, grew up speaking and reading both English and Polish. My father, her grandson, only speaks English. That’s the assimilation.
“I think its more about the economy that people can’t afford to get divorced.”
No. The divorce rate leveled out and started going down before the Great Recession.
“Sabrina — thanks for your comments, too. We’ve been looking at LP/LV and just had difficulty finding anything we liked that was decently priced, so the search has kept creeping northward.”
I hear you SadatPlaza440. I’ve heard this over and over and over again. People think they should get something “decent” for their $700,000 or $800,000 in Lakeview or North Center and then discover that their money really doesn’t go that far. So they start looking in other neighborhoods. Unfortunately, that’s when many decide to eject out to the suburbs to get more for their money.
“That’s because it isn’t true. Plenty of single men. Go to any Cubs game. Go to any Bears game. Go to any sports bars while a Chicago sports team is playing. Many, many single men.”
Men (caucasian) don’t want to date or marry women who are “obama voters” that hold that type of brainwashed mentality. Trust me on that one. They may reluctantly put up with it to get married to a decent looking girl, but if you’re marginal looking and like obama, good F’n luck….. It’s the opposite with minorities, their men wouldn’t ever date a woman who liked romney. They’d be embarrased as all hell to do so. Yet, you do find some d-bag white guys who will just give up and date obama-voting females, because incredibly, that’s really all there is in Chicago. It’s really quite simple in that regard.
“People think they should get something “decent” for their $700,000 or $800,000 in Lakeview or North Center and then discover that their money really doesn’t go that far.”
So what’s now the typical mortgage post-bubble for these DINK or two income families? We have to be talking on average $600K.
”
No. The divorce rate leveled out and started going down before the Great Recession.”
uh exactly.. we shall see, I’m probably going to be right on this one
No Sonies- you’re wrong. They’re not staying together because they’re broke. They were already NOT divorcing BEFORE the Great Recession. The rate was already going down in the early 2000s.
It really has to do with the fact that people are marrying later. Also, Generation X had an awful time with their baby boomer parents divorcing and many vowed not to do the same thing.
well the only reason it wouldn’t go up is because people just aren’t getting married in the first place, so I guess the theory is valid
ha! Yeah- I thought of that. But then they’re not counted, right? Never marrieds can never get a divorce.
After the dot-com bust, there was a bunch of articles about how all these married couples were still living together and/or not divorcing in Silicon Valley because of the loss of wealth from their stock options and because they couldn’t live the same standard of living separately (due to housing prices being incredibly sky-high.)
But that only lasted about a year or so. Because, frankly, humans simply don’t want to live with each other for 3 or 4 years if they don’t like each other. It is torture. Then the media stopped writing articles about it.
The economy has been improving for several years now. Even if some people decided not to divorce in the height of the worst of the Great Recession- that was 4 years ago now. That’s a lifetime. That’s enough time for the kid in high school to go to college.
They’re not staying married that long- if they don’t want to.
“Is this low inventory reality the new housing normal in Chicago?”
From the both GZ & non-GZ hoods I watch, in 2012 I’d have to say yes. I see inventory down 60% in GZ and 40% in non-GZ.
“And as far as not learning English- the first generation never learns it. Nothing has changed. My great grandmother came here from Poland.”
The ones I interact with (think polish barbies) speak it well enough. And can write it, too. Maybe not enough to pass a senior highschool English class, but enough so even a native speaker can understand precisely what they’re trying to convey. And they have smartphones, the internet & facebook.
You just made the same mistake a lot of my drunk friends do–if they speak with an accent they can’t understand what you’re saying, very similar to the ‘if you’re drunk they can’t hear you because you’re not loud’ gaffe. Yes they can.
And yes these days the first generation learns it well enough. Everyone I know of Polish origin (off boat) under 40 speaks conversational fluent English. Could be pre-selection due to the industry I interact with, but I can’t imagine the maids/maintenance workers don’t understand basic english either.
Only one of our Polish cleaning ladies can speak and understand English.
“Unfortunately, that’s when many decide to eject out to the suburbs to get more for their money.”
Lemmings?
1. Sabrina: The guys at the cubs games just tell you that they’re single …
2. Vj- how does value in the burbs make someone a lemming?
“Only one of our Polish cleaning ladies can speak and understand English.”
Or only one of them wants to talk to you…
“Or only one of them wants to talk to you…”
Do they call her krótka s?oma?
Bob said “Could be pre-selection given the industry I interact with…” Bro, just b/c the immigrant strippers you interact with know English doesn’t mean every immigrant does. Your stripper interactions are with highly trained economists who have figured out ‘interacting’ with you will net them more of the money you save by not dating and only going to bars when they feature $1 PBR.
“PermaBear: If you MUST bring up Sex & The City, Miranda, who is a Harvard-educated rich lawyer on the show marries a bartender. Or maybe you just missed that part.”
Yeah, you got me. I missed that part. But let me guess what happened, a shriveling uterus led to dipping below ideal standards and it ended not so well. I can’t fathom the producers of such a vapid program would have such dumpster diving end well.
“That’s because it isn’t true. Plenty of single men. Go to any Cubs game. Go to any Bears game. Go to any sports bars while a Chicago sports team is playing. Many, many single men.”
I would wager that a majority of the “single men” at a Cubs game are backward hat wearing 23-25 year old frat studs fresh out of the halls of Purdue or Michigan State trying to eke out a meager existence in some trash infested Wrigleyville walkup. Sure, they are single, but they are not exactly what the 30-something female professional set is looking for to settle down with. I genuinely feel bad for the single women in their 30’s and 40’s in Chicago. I know scores of reasonably cool, average looking women in that category who have zero prospects because the men of that same age and in comparable income brackets settled down long ago or if they didn’t settle down, they are only interested in 22-26 year old slam pieces. The numbers are just terrible for those women.
Missed this thread, comments:
Interesting data point in HD’s link, probably doesn’t satisfy preconceived ideas about welfare mamas:
“The data shows the fastest growth [in births to American women out of wedlock] in the past 20 years is among white women in their 20s with some college education but no four-year degree.”
Numbnuts is wrong about “That’s why nearly one-half of the country hates barack obama and sees him as the second coming of the anti-christ”; thats only the rabid religious right and racists like him who serve to handicap the Republican party so badly that an incumbant was elected with the highest unemployment rate since FDR.
And Sabrina, citing the “good” employment statistics for college grads says nothing about the fact that more than half of recent graduates are jobless or underemployed. Paying off those college loans with minimum wages is hardly the good life.
Regarding the duopoly shuffle, redistricting helped the Ds in Illinois, but nationwide, the Rs gained more congressional seats from it:
http://news.firedoglake.com/2012/11/08/gerrymander-superpac-cash-saved-gops-bacon-in-the-house-where-they-got-less-votes/
Juliana the election was close in the popular vote. 50.5% to 48.0%. And of course you believe that all republicans are rabid religious wing nuts. Be careful when you write off 48% of the country, Rmney only wrote off 47%.
50-48% (a few million people difference) – that *has been* a not uncommon spread on the popular vote. Based on Tuesday’s results, I’d expect to see a bigger gulf, say, 65 (D) v 35 (R), in future elections. That’s just where the demographics are heading.
Personally, I don’t believe that all Republicans are rabid religious wing nuts. I’d guess that about a third fit that description. Another third, while not particularly religious (many are no longer regular church goers), consider themselves “traditional” on social values (they’re against abortion, even if they aren’t vocal or active about it; they’re not exactly pro-same sex marriage, but nor are they foaming at the mouth over it, and would be fine giving gay folks *nearly* equal rights if it meant not having to think about them at all), but tend to (i) mistakenly believe that the current tax system is unfair to them (i.e., they think they’re making more than they do and are paying too much, (ii) mistakenly believe that things like environmental regulations or Obamacare are hurting them or their small businesses, and/or (iii) mistakenly believe that minorities and illegal (and legal) immigrants are the single biggest drain on the nation’s resources (many in this third equally revere JFK and Reagan). The last third? I’d say that half are educated, high-earning folks, with significant investments, and (i) thus want to keep as much of their money as possible and (ii) think that, beyond the military, the government can’t be trusted to do anything competently and cost-effectively. The other half of the last third are just plain nuts – they’re not Christian Taliban, they’re not Reagan Democrats, and they’re not and never will be wealthy.
Even the conservatives I know who still insist on clinging to the Republican party didn’t like Romney.
Its hard to vote for a flip flopping plutocrat, even when you feel its the lesser of two evils. Its pitiful he’s the best they could come up with.
agree on that. W was vulnerable in 04 and dems came up with kerry. Obama this year and repubs bring a stiff to the table. gotta be tough on their hard core party fans. Will be interesting in 4 yrs who dems come up with to replace Black Jesus. Putting some color in the mix seems to work so my bet is they try for a repeat. Maybe head to head vs godfather pizza guy. maybe not but the trend could start. Latinos love obama, indians too at least the ones I know.
The 50-48 is an interesting number. Yes, it’s absolutely fair to say 48% voted for Romney. But take a look at where most of Romney’s votes came from – areas like the deep South (where many anti-Obama votes may have been racist), and other right-wing religious parts of the country like Utah, Kansas, Oklahoma and rural Texas, where preachers told their flocks that they’d go to hell if they voted for Obama (I’m not making this up). Romney and Ryan couldn’t even win their home states.
Most of this country is run from the blue states (including Florida and Virginia – holdouts for Obama in the South). The economic and thought power that will drive the future is not in the red states (though urban areas in some red states, like Atlanta, Charlotte and Dallas may be exceptions). Also, the growing Hispanic population in many of the red states, particularly the deep South, may mean less reliable GOP voting from places like Alabama and Mississippi in the coming elections.
By the way, check a map of the Confederacy against a map of Tuesday’s results. It’s eerily similar. Only Indiana and Virginia are outliers.
There are sizable romney minorties in urban areas, primarily in the suburbs. Romney voters are a minority this election but it’s equally as racist to just say that minorities only vote D.
“There are sizable romney minorties in urban areas, primarily in the suburbs”
Do these “sizeable” minorities happen to be Samoan Mormons?
Apropos of little but maybe it sheds light on why HeilHelmetHead & Bob act as they do. A NY Times columnist recently discussed the Grant Study, which has tracked the lives of 268 Harvard students since 1938. Their results did not jibe with their preconceived notions of who would be successful.
“But as .. the Grant Study progressed, the power of relationships became clear. The men who grew up in homes with warm parents were much more likely to become first lieutenants and majors in World War II. The men who grew up in cold, barren homes were much more likely to finish the war as privates….
Body type was useless as a predictor of how the men would fare in life. So was birth order or political affiliation. Even social class had a limited effect. But having a warm childhood was powerful. As George Vaillant, the study director, sums it up in “Triumphs of Experience,” his most recent summary of the research, “It was the capacity for intimate relationships that predicted flourishing in all aspects of these men’s lives.” “…the magic formula is capacity for intimacy combined with persistence, discipline, order and dependability. The men who could be affectionate about people and organized about things had very enjoyable lives.”
The problem for everyone, not just the GOP, long term, is that even though demographics are changing, class mobility isn’t. So the lower classes which are generally minorities, will continue to be lower class, and there will be more voters for teh (D) party; but the middle and upper classes, which are generally white and asian, will continue to stay that way, although in fewer numbers. My cleaning lady in my office building is ilegal, has three children, and all are poor – and most likely will remain poor or lower middle class for the rest of their lives. My kid will likely go to a good college, get a good job, marry another man or woman who also makes good money, and someday, inherit my money and most of the grandparents’ money, and except for a few years in grad school, will always be in the upper middle class. And when my kid is 45, he/she will be the minority, and probably wealthy, and there will be masses of poor people. you see where I’m going with this. It’s going to be brazil. rich people, and poor people, and not much in between. gated communities everywhere. Urban cores that consist of compounds and favelas, and suburbs to keep away from everyone else. The president will pander to the masses but protect teh establishment class, because the president will know who is the meal ticket. It’s going to be an awful future, thank goodness I’ll be in heaven then.
“Do these “sizeable” minorities happen to be Samoan Mormons?”
Hahah. Dupage was 50/50 O/R. Lake was 52/47 O/R. Kane was 47/52 O/R. more or less half the people in the suburbs voted Romney. IT was the areas within the city proper that went heavily Obama, and for the most part, rural areas went heavily Romney.
Drive around my suburb near the city. I saw one Obama sign the entire election season and hundreds of Romney signs. but when the IL assembly redrew districts in 2011 they diluted the voting power of this town and mixed it in with some really liberal areas, basically rendering this huge block of R voters impotent. 40,000 heavily R people in this suburb and not a single politician with an R next to their name. Thanks Madigan you fucking prick!
“40,000 heavily R people in this suburb and not a single politician with an R next to their name. ”
Unless your burb is dominated by households with incomes, on average, in the mid six figures and significant investment income, it sounds like it should be a (R)-free zone.
Anonny – my suburb is dominated by six-figure incomes, and we just kicked out the GOP incumbent congressman (Dold) and elected a Dem for the first time in 34 years! (And the Dem presidential candidate won Lake County easily). I’m sure Obama got 60% or more of the HP vote, though he probably didn’t do so well in Lake Forest.
“Sure, they are single, but they are not exactly what the 30-something female professional set is looking for to settle down with. I genuinely feel bad for the single women in their 30?s and 40?s in Chicago.”
And talk to any 40-something female “professional” who wanted to settle down about her choices in life, and I’d bet you’d encounter some bitterness. Many guys don’t want their women being primary breadwinner, myself included.
” Their results did not jibe with their preconceived notions of who would be successful.”
Southbound, you are a huge tool. You have no idea how successful I am in my field, however I have more than an inkling that I’m better off than you. You see people like me read financial publications and move up while people like you read the NYT and pontificate about your assumptions. Then you goto your book clubs & social circles and bounce all your ideas off of people who do the exact same thing, then are flabberghasted when the world doesn’t work out the way you and your equally braindead friends didn’t anticipate because it wasn’t in the NYT. Don’t refer to me as “bro”, Southbound. You read the NYT. The only type of men who call others “Bro” who read the NYT better not be speaking literally as incest is still illegal.
“even though demographics are changing, class mobility isn’t.”
“My kid will likely go to a good college, get a good job, marry another man or woman who also makes good money, and someday, inherit my money and most of the grandparents’ money, and except for a few years in grad school, will always be in the upper middle class.”
Actually half of the class mobility thing is still there: it’s still possible to go lower down in social class/economic well being, that’s quite easy. And you’re assuming your kid will make the right decisions as you did and not F up along the way. I know people who were middle class but are now working class on their way to being poor all due to bad decisions/alcohol/drugs/mental illness.
“Anonny – my suburb is dominated by six-figure incomes, and we just kicked out the GOP incumbent congressman (Dold) and elected a Dem for the first time in 34 years! ”
Whats amazing to me how inconsistent the electorate is in Illinois. Two years ago we almost elected Brady, a born again evangelical with hard lines on social issues. And earlier this week Dold was booted after running a campaign on how moderate he was, essentially trying to be a D in disguise.
I am coming to the conclusion with two former governors in prison and these voting inconsistencies that the Illinois electorate is pretty stupid and dumber than that of most other states.
(Dold was booted handily, at that)
Wow, very interesting to read the comments. Even after Obama won 10/11 battleground states, the republicans still stick their heads in the sand, parroting Fox talking points. And here’s the red meat bait – “so and so gets welfare, the minorities know how to work the system, people are getting free healthcare”… The reason it is so easy to exploit the simple minded, it because it’s easy to sell small minded anecdotes which the common person can understand. They are unable to understand the bigger issues, which require critical and complex thinking. There’s a reason people vote against their own economic interests, because they want to make damn sure someone underneath them on the economic ladder isn’t “getting something for free”.
If one looks at the trajectory of growth of the uber wealthy portion of the pie v the middle class, they may begin to comprehend that someone isn’t quite right in this country. Cap gains for hedge fund managers, off shore accounts for the uber wealthy, tax dodges through rigged charitable accounts, tax loopholes, … No the common republican just doesn’t get it, but they sure the fuck get that Sally down the street gets food stamps. Voila! We’ve got a republican voter!
Gay rights, women’s rights, there are a lot of issues that the republicans lost because they are Neanderthals and more interested in getting up in people’s personal business. And as far as business, I’m a business consultant and guess what, policies have nothing to do with whether or not you are running a successful business. Astute business owners succeed regardless of political chatter. Make a good product or service, watch your expenses, sell it, and succeed. I see my fair share of bitching, complaining business owners, they suck because they have no ownership or business acumen, it doesn’t matter who the president is, or how the economy performs in general – they and their businesses will always suck.
The republicans got their ass handed to them because they were out gunned by a brilliant political strategy. Turn on the news, you’ve got two groups of republicans left – the delusional dumb shits that continue to shove their heads in the sand and scream ‘I want my country back” or the more politically astute which realizes they have to move with society, and ever changing populace with ever changing goals, but the primary goal of a fair chance for all.
Change and grow or die. Intelligence reigns and there’s a reason the republicans lost. Their days are gone.
I should have acknowledged that Lake County has been historically more Democratic despite its wealth (for one thing, because of a large Jewish population, a large Latino population, and plenty of poorer pockets). Significantly, however, Obama also triumphed in more traditionally Republican DuPage County, and long-time suburban Republican Rep. Biggert was defeated as well. The only area county that went for Romney was McHenry, which is more rural than urban or suburban.
Hey Shawnee aka dipshit. Republicans days are gone in IL and they’ve make a mockery of our state. IL is your democratic utopia. Billions in debt, a veneer of democracy, high tax rates, higher thn average unemployment and CHicago is a gangland killing paradise. I’m glad you got what you want. Hope you enjoy it.
One party rule, like in Mexico for a hundred years, makes a third world country. This state will suffer greatly with a veto proof D majority. You got what you wanted, I hope you enjoy it
“The republicans got their ass handed to them because they were out gunned by a brilliant political strategy.”
I actually agree with your previous paragraph, aside from the first sentence. But if you honestly believe this sentence you’re a fool. This election was the Rs to lose and sure enough they did. I have a D acquaintance who predicted this 18 months ago and sure enough she was spot on.
” I’m glad you got what you want. Hope you enjoy it.”
But HD’s quote is spot on, too. The dumbass electorate in IL hasn’t even felt the 66% state income tax increase because it was designed exactly to match the temporary federal 2% cut in the payroll tax cut. Well guess what that expires come Jan 1. And I don’t know the outcome of too many state races but if Dold even lost, well then that means Madigan’s grip only got stronger.
I’m well insulated from most of this personally. But I do understand exactly what impact an immediate 2% drop in gross wages will have on our economy come 1/1. And the pension issue hasn’t even nearly come close to even discussing a resolution.
You can only raise cigarette taxes so much and put so many slot & video poker machines in every public place to try to feed the pension beast. IL is going the way of CA within the next 8 years.
“Anonny – my suburb is dominated by six-figure incomes, and we just kicked out the GOP incumbent congressman (Dold) and elected a Dem for the first time in 34 years!”
A few thoughts. First, I think everybody was stunned by the Dold defeat. He was Kirk Jr., heavily endorsed, and relatively moderate. Schneider really applied parts of the Axlerod playbook, and it worked. Second, while HP is indeed dominated by six-figure incomes, I don’t know if it’s dominated by folks with *mid* six figure incomes and significant investment income (as are big chunks of the other north shore burbs). The richest folks I know live in HP, but to get to their sprawling compound, one drives down (charming) streets with fairly modest, $500-600k homes. In any event, I think the relative economic diversity of HP was indeed a factor in unseating Dold. Third, you’re right: I imagine Obama got at least 60% of the vote in HP. Probably more like 70% (it would be higher, but there’s still some lingering “lack of enthusiasm” for Obama among a major HP population).
“Whats amazing to me how inconsistent the electorate is in Illinois.”
“I don’t know the outcome of too many state races but if Dold even lost, well then that means Madigan’s grip only got stronger.”
Maybe you arent the best to pontificate on IL politics then. Esp, as you appear unaware that Madigan gerrymandered the state to within an inch. If there hadnt been a big D win in districted races, Madigan would have looked a fool, which he isnt. Lots of other negative things, but not a fool.
Anon(tfo): it was totally gerrymandered. A live in a very R community yet not a single R represents my area. It’s so awful it should be criminal. It’s just a thin veneer of democracy in the state. The D party slates who is going to run, they write the districts, and then the dutiful voters do exactly what the party wants. This is not a republic, it’s china with one extra step to make it look like democracy.
Like I said, illinois is a D utopia where R have been run completely out of office. The same politicians who caused our problems Are now in charge of fixing it. But too many voters focus on red herring issues like abortion and women’s rights (as if one IL politician can do anything about it) that they’ll overlook all fiscal and exonomic issues and now we have a one party rule, just like Mexico. There a plenty areas of the city like third world countries and that’s they want.
“In any event, I think the relative economic diversity of HP was indeed a factor in unseating Dold.”
I think the increase in inequality we have experienced during the Obama years is leaving a lot of people feeling disenfranchised by our political system. Some progressives cling to the belief that the Democrats are more fair, but others realize that liberal these days is really neolib, which is getting hard to distinguish from neocon, other than choice of corporate sponsors. Both are satisfied with increasing inequality and put corporate interests above social goals.imo
One of the UMKC guys, Bill Black, on Obama’s Grand Bargain: (Obama seems to like folding before the games even get started)
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/11/bill-black-wall-street-urges-obama-to-commit-the-great-betrayal.html
” But too many voters focus on red herring issues like abortion and women’s rights (as if one IL politician can do anything about it) that they’ll overlook all fiscal and exonomic issues and now we have a one party rule, just like Mexico. There a plenty areas of the city like third world countries and that’s they want.”
This is what I want, too. Because I think voters deserve what they get. I don’t want it for people like you whose eyes are open to what’s going on. But I want those single issue abortion voters living in ghettos and I want to be living in the gated community. Of course D policies are going to make it harder for upward social mobility so maybe it’s an impossible goal here in IL.
I hope we have 9%+ unemployment in 2014 and Quinn gets voted out. A R governor can stop the insanity at least temporarily.
IL: yes, heavily gerrymandered (to favor Democrats). USA: Also heavily gerrymandered (to favor Republicans).
As long as we get a Jim Edgar instead of a George Ryan.
Little bit of trivia: It was a Republican Governor (Ogilvee) who signed Illinois first income tax into law in 1969.
“A R governor can stop the insanity at least temporarily.”
” It was a Republican Governor (Ogilvee) who signed Illinois first income tax into law in 1969. ”
In terms of income tax laws IL is as fair as they come, however. Already leftist media lemmings like McClelland are writing op-eds complaining about the unfairness that our state constitution prohibits progressive taxation schemes.
It may be the only thing that prevents us from being like CA on that front. They are working hard in Springfield to work around it, however (more loopholes/earned income credits for some to not pay their fair share).
Problem with even flat taxation schemes is they don’t capture everyone–think of how many votes the Ds got from Chicago people who work for cash.
Never ever have I commented on this site before. I’ve been coming to CC for a few years since I like to look what’s on the market. I never comment because I consider myself a student in regards to real estate, and appreciate the likes of comments from HD, Perma, etc. But holy shit are you men f^$*%ing retarded here when it comes to women. Thank god for Sabrina. Literally zero ability (well HD you are kind of trying) at self introspection and the changing society for females. As if ALL us women are dying to be married to you dorks, or any idiot for that matter. Oh my god… not married at 40??!! How shall I go on in life??! Granted, I can understand how you men hold on to these beliefs… I have plenty of female friends that still believe in the myth that if you aren’t married then somehow you aren’t a successful human being. What a crock. I know I am in the minority… which is why you fools spout on about how stupid we are.. haha. But, it’s happening… females like me got smart early on… realized that dependency is a sure way to potential unhappiness and lack of freedom. So I made my own money… put a shitload of it in the bank, and knew I would never be f%^&*king settling for some tool who still thinks women are second class. Nope I am not married.. and could not be happier about it. Kids… whatever. I can have that if I want it… sex, no problem. If you boys haven’t figured it out yet, we have brains… can do the same jobs as well if not better. We can have it all. Embrace it or keep getting voted out. And for those of you who are inevitably going to comment about how I am probably unattractive… think again. lol
U.S. system of “divided government” sucks. Party that prevails can rarely enact its policy platform. That’s why it’s comical all these people kvelling about Obama’s victory. It’s identity politics at its worst, only this time for white people. See the fun here:
http://whitepeoplemourningromney.tumblr.com/
What’s going to change? Rs will see to it that we go off the fiscal hillock (which, BFD), and they’ll “investigate” BHO’s role in Benghazzzi in the House and may even start an impeachment process (depends on whether Roger Ailes thinks it’s a good idea). Oh, and they will fight tooth and nail against any economic policy that is not austerity, and generally act like ballbags.
Illinois will be interesting. It’s basically a parliament now (i.e., a superior form of govt). Madigan and Cullerton own the china shop.
“Illinois will be interesting. It’s basically a parliament now (i.e., a superior form of govt).”
Uh,,,,,wow.
Note, HD, I didn’t say that the superior party, or the best and brightest and most moral of either party, is in power. The virtue of parliamentary democracy is that the ruling party can govern, and it must take responsibility for how it governs. When it fails, the opposition can make a clearer case to the electorate.
A faction of the Democratic Party — and by no means my favorite — will be able to legislate at will in Illinois. I say it’s interesting in part because I’m wondering if and how your party will step up.
You act as if Mike Madigan invented gerrymandering. Christ, move to Kenosha. The legislature and governor there have just as firm a grip on things as the Chicago Dems do here. You might be happier.
“What’s going to change? Rs will see to it that we go off the fiscal hillock (which, BFD), and they’ll “investigate” BHO’s role in Benghazzzi in the House and may even start an impeachment process (depends on whether Roger Ailes thinks it’s a good idea). Oh, and they will fight tooth and nail against any economic policy that is not austerity, and generally act like ballbags. ”
I bet every single one of your predictions is wrong. The primary goal of most politicians in DC is to get re-elected and they realize that the fiscal cliff scenario (which actually I think would be better long-term for America) will most definitely not help their chances of getting re-elected in 2014. It’s better for them to keep kicking the can on the balooning debt problem and let future politicians deal with it. Both sides agree on this.
The mere fact that you believe an agreement won’t be reached when Boener is already talking compromise shows you aren’t in tune with how politics works or even the news.
Bob Bro Bob, you backward baseball cap wearing cheap beer swilling knucklehead you! I call you Bro in tribute to your persona of former frat boy from Western Kentucky, Ohio U, or wherever. The NYT article I referenced gives an excellent explanation why you & HelmutHead have sh-tty prospects of successfully partnering up with significant others. I love reading random articles in NYT (and WSJ too). While I don’t care how you are doing economically and I truly wish you the best, I believe the closest you get to my level of accomplishment and renumeration is when you read the pitch and appraisal your company is reviewing while considering funding my teams latest development. I am making some of our areas’s best (& coolest) commercial real estate development deals happen. I see you as a due diligence drone rather than someone who actually produces profits.
As much as R’s like you and HD decry the existence of upward mobility I do see it constantly (no thanks to R’s who would gut funding which allows lower & lower middle class kids to attend college or trade school – why should their kids have to compete for admission against lower class kids whose parents can’t pay?). A quick example – a son’s high school friend whose Polish immigrant dad is a non-union auto mechanic is completing dental school thanks to his great drive as well as great preparation in a very good school district for accomplishment in college. Imo class mobility should be a two way street where an individuals actions in life are rewarded or punished.
Bob, if what you are saying is that deficits don’t really matter to Republicans, I’ll give you credit for your first accurate observation on politics on Crib Chatter, ever. Well done! Threaten to cut the military, and they all turn into whimpering Keynesians.
In your scenario, who kills Grover Norquist? Or are you expecting Obama to fold on his winning hand? (If you say the latter, that would be your second astute observation.)
Southbound and his liberal friends decry republicans for denying science when it comes to women rights or economics, yet he does the same, when science confirms that social mobility is stalled, his personal observations defy academic studies ad nuseam. It just shows that partisans come in all shapes and colors.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-downward-path-of-upward-mobility/2011/11/09/gIQAegpS6M_story.html
“Personally, I don’t believe that all Republicans are rabid religious wing nuts. I’d guess that about a third fit that description.”
I’d say that more than half of Democrats are rabid fundamentalist secularists. Probably 75% hold those views, and more are indoctrinated each passing year. The Left is basically a religion of sorts these days, with Obama the head of it.
“The NYT article I referenced gives an excellent explanation why you & HelmutHead have sh-tty prospects of successfully partnering up with significant others.”
Huh? That article defends traditionalism and good values, something you hate and don’t have. For the record, my mother was a stay-at-home mom, not some wine-drinking, shrill, angry, Leftist skank like Southbound’s probably was.
“I’d say that more than half of Democrats are rabid fundamentalist secularists.”
So? The “godless” areas of the country are the economic engine. Look at Silicon Valley. Only 20% go to any kind of religious service every week- the lowest in the nation. Science rules there.
” I am making some of our areas’s best (& coolest) commercial real estate development deals happen.”
You’re not intelligent enough to have a good job, Southbound. What exactly is a “cool” commercial real estate deal? Do you put that on a resume? Is that how you pitched to the bank? LOL!!!
“Like I said, illinois is a D utopia where R have been run completely out of office.”
This is a joke. My whole life it’s been republican governors- including like 20 years of Jim Thompson. We also currently have a republican senator.
“So? The “godless” areas of the country are the economic engine. Look at Silicon Valley. Only 20% go to any kind of religious service every week- the lowest in the nation. Science rules there.”
Funny, I was paging thru that book “The Millionaire Mind” a week ago which refutes what you’re saying. The less stable, moral, and religious someone is, the more likely they will be a failure in life. Go look around our city, at all the losers, everywhere. None of them believe in anything, and they’re failures.
Rahm Emanuel is religious and Obama used to attend a famous church in Chicago too. Pelosi had her kids baptized.
There is more proof that people who attend religious services are, on average, more successful than people who do not. Bunch of drunkard Leftists with their repeated wine and craft beer hangovers, failures in life, thrift store clothes, etc. have to vote Democrat looking for free health care…
“former frat boy”
“There is more proof that people who attend religious services are, on average, more successful than people who do not. ”
Absolutely as there is a huge networking affect in so doing. The same reason people in the greek system that Southbound so tries to decry are more successful on average than those not in it. While these facts are obvious to me, someone like him who was never apart of such things is completely alien to him and his ilk.
That’s why I find it humorous whenever someone tries to decry me as such. I remember all the greek haters in undergrad who didn’t have access to the same resources we did (both academically and socially) and I laugh at their sneers. I’ve been laughing all the way to the bank ever since.
Oh and let’s not forget the social skills transferred to successful interviewing. Pretty sure I nailed my first round interview back then by changing the topic of conversation to college basketball which my interviewer was also a huge fan of. A CRE number cruncher such as him would never be able to accomplish such things I’d imagine–he’s on anonymous internet message boards pretending to be a “master of the universe” in CRE. In reality he’s probably taking pictures of half-empty strip malls with his iphone.
“have to vote Democrat looking for free health care…”
Let’s not forget completely free birth control. Can’t wait to see what they want in subsequent election cycles. I’m guessing free broadband on the national level as they’re already testing the waters here with that idea. Next it’ll be free iphones/ipads/ipods.
At this rate eventually in our society most things most people want will be free but means tested. Essentially negating out any incentive to economically better oneself. That’s when the politicians really got ya.
Let’s bring back the free CTA rides but not just for seniors, let’s make it for everyone earning under 25k/year! And half fare for those under 35k.
Yeah…heaven forbid we help the elderly and poor get around. Socialism!
Bob doth protest too much, methinks.
“Yeah…heaven forbid we help the elderly and poor get around. Socialism!”
It’s a great idea, for sure, but really expensive, and not practical. There was a ton of fraud in the free rides for seniors program. A lot of stuff sounds great in theory, but the practical realities and human natures often destroys altruistic ideas.
“A lot of stuff sounds great in theory, but the practical realities and human natures often destroys altruistic ideas.”
Nothing altruistic about any sort of gov’t freebie for seniors–all about getting re-elected, total self-interest. Seniors vote, a lot.
“Nothing altruistic about any sort of gov’t freebie for seniors”
No way, Blago was really trying to altruistically help the seniors of the state of IL with the free rides. It was the corrupt pols who reversed it.
“Funny, I was paging thru that book “The Millionaire Mind” a week ago which refutes what you’re saying. The less stable, moral, and religious someone is, the more likely they will be a failure in life.”
Wow- you “paged thru” a book. Imagine that! You clearly didn’t read it. It does NOT equate success with going to religious services. Nor does it equate being rich with being less stable or moral. (whatever THAT means.) It does say that you’re more likely to be rich if you don’t divorce- for obvious reasons.
Like I said- Silicon Valley is the most godless place in the United States. Science rules there. More successful people there than almost anywhere in the country (if you’re counting money.) Dan- you’re equating politicians with “success”- instead of business people.
“There is more proof that people who attend religious services are, on average, more successful than people who do not. ”
Please site your “proof.”
One of the geniuses of our time never attended weekly religious services- though he did study Buddhism. Jobs wasn’t even sure about God at the end.
“Seniors vote, a lot.”
They do. But people under 30 voted in nearly the same amount this last election. So whose interests do you serve (if you’re a politician?)
“So whose interests do you serve (if you’re a politician?)”
Everyones’ BUT the tax payers!
“So whose interests do you serve (if you’re a politician?)”
The old farts because they have much deeper pockets. As long as Sheldon Adelson and the Koch Daddies are willing to shell out hundreds of millions of dollars they will write party policy.
“I believe the closest you get to my level of accomplishment and renumeration is when you read the pitch and appraisal your company is reviewing while considering funding my teams latest development. I am making some of our areas’s best (& coolest) commercial real estate development deals happen. I see you as a due diligence drone rather than someone who actually produces profits.”
Is EnV always a theme with developers?
“Wow- you “paged thru” a book. Imagine that! You clearly didn’t read it. It does NOT equate success with going to religious services.”
The book had the data in a Table. I have to get the table and page reference for you. The data is clear. The non-religious are less successful people. (It’s probably due to the fact that people who attend religious services are more organized, more moral, early risers, and more sober, etc. than the medicated Leftist snivlers and drunks.)
Free broadband, too, if you live in one of the “underprivileged” (read non-white) neighborhoods in Chicago.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-12-29/news/ct-x-c-smart-communities-digital-divi20101229_1_internet-access-digital-gap-neighborhoods
Being poor ain’t so bad in the bluest of blue states, at least if you’re not white. Afterall we wouldn’t want the residents of those neighborhoods to think we’re racist or anything, so we should give them free stuff.
Reading through the recent posts here by Bob, HD, Helmet, and other Republicans, I’m once again struck by how they all spout the Fox News/Rush Limbaugh talking points about the so-called dependency and greed of the left for govt. services/free healthcare, etc. It’s not only BS, it also goes way back, to Reagan’s first-term references to “welfare queens” driving Cadillacs. It’s all part of the far right’s attempt to label anyone on the other side as a hopeless loser who’d be in the gutter if they didn’t receive a government check, and it has a strong tinge of racism as well.
Get over it. Republicans have lost the popular vote in 5 of the last 6 presidential elections using similar ineffective, divisive messaging. Develop something more constructive about how you plan to lead the country, rather than blaming “liberals” for every problem and hoping your negativity will stick.
Republicans remind me of Orwell’s sheep. No matter what happens, no matter how the facts line up against them, they can be counted on to chant, “Four legs good, two legs bad,” whenever their leaders tell them to.
“It’s not only BS”
Just because you say it’s BS doesn’t make it so. There have been three examples on this thread of the government provided or attempted to provide a good or service that was previously provided by the private market.
There is a reason most south side neighborhoods are 95%+ D in their voting patterns, and this high lean can’t be explained simply by more relate-able candidates. One party offers free handouts and tries to make the playing field less level (to their demographics advantage), the other does not. Guess which party voting for is a no-brainer to them?
And to use your Orwell analogy, if you really want to see an analogy to the social stratification system in 1984 goto many of these south side neighborhoods (ie: Kenwood, Hyde Park). You have the definite top 1% living in gated mansions surrounded by poverty (or a park, or the lake) as far as the eye can see.
Bob, re. the “BS” reference, I didn’t mean that to be a blanket one. I’m sure there are people (particularly in unions), who vote D because D’s protect their interests, just as CEOs tend to vote R because R’s protect theirs. However, Republicans tend to make blanket statements about dependency, which tars the many hard-working people who vote D not because they want a check from the govt, but because they don’t believe govt. works best when it operates on behalf of the CEOs, which is how it does when R’s are in charge.
“three examples on this thread of the government provided or attempted to provide a good or service”
Who was it that presided over the expansion of “universal connectivity” into mobile phones? Seem to recall that change was made in 2008. Hmmm … someone help me out here … who was president in 2008?
Now, it is true that one of the largest operators of SafeLink plans is a Carlos Slim-related entity. So I would doubt some influence peddling in the process.
“http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20121112_In_59_Philadelphia_voting_wards__Mitt_Romney_got_zero_votes.html”
Another analogy of (D) who say ““Four legs good, two legs bad,” ” when the (R) gets Zero votes in 59 wards.
however, I am astute to learn that as we get older, we’re all partisans, and, there are some nuggets of truth in these partisan views. However, they are oversimplification. For example, the (R) view that an expansive governement creates dependency (and consistent (D)) votes has some truth. These days school lunch programs have been expanded to breakfast and dinner because parents cannot be trusted to provide their own children with food! For tens of thousands of years parents have been responsible able to feed their children except in times of famine, but today, come on, parents stop feeding their own children and let government do it for them?
On the other side, the (R) platform appears to be against women’s rights. Three (R) senators make stupid comments about abortion (an issue fully decided decades ago) and it blows up into “Romney and R’s don’t care about women’s rights” sure there are some R who said dumb things but they ruin it for all the R’s.
it make great internet fooder to say “R’s do this, or D’s do that” but try talking actual issues instead of talking points leads to a more productive discussion.
Honest question: What is wrong with voting in one’s own material interest? Is it morally wrong? Bad citizenship? Is it better to vote for altruistic reasons or religious ones? Am I to believe that when Bob casts his ballot, it is only after soberly and fairly weighing the greater good for all of society’s stakeholders?
Also, does anybody on this thread claim that the free market does a better job of providing health care than a single payer system would? Behind all the crisis mongering about deficits and entitlements and whatnot is the rocketing cost of health care, which this country is doing a pitiful job of controlling.
“Creates dependency.”
Show me a civilization that is not based dependency. It’s impossible without dependency. Conservatives used to understand this.
“Nonchatterer (November 12, 2012, 2:32 pm)
“Creates dependency.”
Show me a civilization that is not based dependency. It’s impossible without dependency. Conservatives used to understand this.”
There is a difference between tolerating dependency and encouraging it. Republicans want a system that tolerates it to an extent whereas Democrats want a system that encourages it. Libertarians are the ones that want zero involvement of the gov’t aside from the military.
“and it has a strong tinge of racism as well.”
Yeah right Dan. You are a racist. Your vote for Brad Schneider, of course, wasn’t motivated by racism and ethnic nepotism?? LOL. All the jews in the 10th district are full-blown racists and you know it. Nice try trying to deflect what you’re all about however. It doesn’t work. I know your people and how you all think and act, and it’s more racist than any other group in America, by far.
According to Ron Paul we’re already over the fiscal cliff, the US is technically bankrupt already, the question is how we are going to land. The moochers that put Obama over the top, are so short-sighted and stupid, they don’t understand basic math. The GOP that wants to spend trillions on the military and wars for Israel is equally nutty about the math.
All this political crap is ruining Cribchatter. Please take it and all the racism and socioeconomic voodoo conspiracy theories elsewhere.
“Also, does anybody on this thread claim that the free market does a better job of providing health care than a single payer system would?”
Yes. Competition lowers prices. Ron Paul, M.D. provided the answer for this question, because he worked in medicine in the early 1960’s before big government involvement. It worked better then, and the cost of having a baby in the hospital, or a routine doctor visit, was a fraction of the cost today (even normalizing for inflation). You’d have to dig on the net for his analysis, because it was suppressed by FoxNews in the GOP debates etc. The only candidate who was running that was an MD wasn’t allowed to get into our national obamacare or health care debate. Sinister, I tell you!
“All this political crap is ruining Cribchatter.”
I agree, nuke this thread…
But it’s hard for decent people who are anti-Democrat to be called “racists” from a member of the most racist tribe on Earth. No way anyone should have to put up with that hypocrisy.
To quote Homedelete: “On the other side, the (R) platform appears to be against women’s rights. Three (R) senators make stupid comments about abortion (an issue fully decided decades ago) and it blows up into “Romney and R’s don’t care about women’s rights” sure there are some R who said dumb things but they ruin it for all the R’s.”
But they ARE against women’s rights! Regardless of the above referenced comments about abortion, every election cycle the Rs try to stick their noses (as yet not literally) into my uterus through promoting restriction of abortion, contraception! I am one of a large group of voters (and no, not all women) who will not vote for a candidate who, even in just in bluster or rhetoric, advocates restricting abortion / contraception. But the Rs, despite their claims for wanting smaller government, cling to their outdated, offensive and bigoted social agenda of regulating sex, love and relationships.
Really, the rhetoric of each aside, I don’t see much difference between Obama (a middle of the road D) and Romney (a middle of the road R). At least with Obama we have hope of healthcare reform which is, as Nonchatterer notes, the genuine and nearly immediate threat to our financial stability.
“sure there are some R who said dumb things but they ruin it for all the R’s.”
No they likely ruined it for themselves, but look what happened when they misspoke (or didn’t but just expressed unpopular beliefs): the national MSM picked up those comments and ran with them. It meant help for a lot of Ds in much closer races.
I fail to see why a Missouri senate candidate’s comments got much national airtime or airtime here as they don’t seem relevant at all, yet we all heard about them. Wonder why…
Yeah, Helmet, I voted for Scheider because he was Jewish. Right. And I voted for Dan Seals the last two elections for the same reason!
I think it’s obvious from his last two posts here that Helmet is trying to bait me into an angry response, but I’m not going to give him the satisfaction.
However, I didn’t call anyone racist, despite what he said. I only said that Limbaugh and Fox News painting Dems as looking for handouts has a racist vibe.
The vast majority of Republicans aren’t racist. Unfortunately, Helmet is one of the minority.
“Also, does anybody on this thread claim that the free market does a better job of providing health care than a single payer system would?”
Yeas, it does. Some of the best health care in the world goes to the elderly with medicare and others with some of the better insurance companies (BC/BS cards are golden)….cutting edge treatments, doctors from some of the world’s best medical schools, blockbuster drugs (lots of R&D in the US).
Where is fails is providing routine and general services to everybody.
i had a client today walk in, $70k in medicals from some broken bones, no ins. got stitched up real good. But no ins. Guess who pays for that? It’s one of many reasons our health care is so expensive. The cost of taking care of the uninsured is built in to our premiums indirectly the hospitals who negotiate reimbursement rates.
iowan – you’re ridiculous diatribe on one issue shows that you’re as just as ridiculous as the one issue voter who will NEVER vote for a politician that is pro-abortion. You’re not enlightened or more intelligent, you’re just as partisan and fail to see the issues that really matter … in many ways, that makes you no different …
The political chatter is limited to one thread from election day and it’s slowly dying. if you don’t like the topic, avoid the thread!
“Honest question: What is wrong with voting in one’s own material interest?”
vs.
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy. “
This thread has it all, politics, sex, religion, taxes,
and many thumbs up/down, more than any thread i have seen this one made me LOL though…
“Obama sucks!
Rating: -14 (from 40 votes)”
Now HD, don’t get testy!
Why is voting based on an issue i feel is of paramount importance wrong? Why are the issues that really matter only the issues that really matter to you?
To tell you the truth, I guess i’ve never been tested on what I really would do, as the democrats consistently over my 20+ years of voting have supported the vast majority of what matters to me. Maybe if there were a candidate that truly had a viable plan for health care reform, who would cut (gasp!!) military spending along with food stamps, believed in things like marriage equality, fair immigration reforms and affordable access for all to education but was anti-choice, I’d be in a real conundrum. However, that circumstance seems patently unlikely, given our current political set up, don’t you agree?
Oh, and to your statement about voting in ones own interest – I don’t think i do. My husband and I are both highly paid professionals and will likely have higher taxes due to my vote. Similarly, as a wealthy white person, I will likely always be able to control my own reproduction regardless of the laws in the United States. So it seems my vote doesn’t really benefit me. Except it makes me feel like I’ve done the right thing, which is pretty nice.
I didn’t say I was more intelligent than anyone else. Although, to be fair, I am.
“The vast majority of Republicans aren’t racist. Unfortunately, Helmet is one of the minority.”
Nice backtrack there. LOL!!!
“Yeah, Helmet, I voted for Scheider because he was Jewish. Right.”
Of course you did. I would be surprised if Schneider got less than 97% of the Jews’ votes.
“And I voted for Dan Seals the last two elections for the same reason”
Yes you did. Seals didn’t have a jewish candidate running in the Dem primary, but if he had you can bet the majority of Jews would have voted for the Jew. I don’t even know why any of this is controversial…the Jews’ voting patterns are very cohesive along racial lines and Israel is always a big factor (yet another racial concern).
Jews don’t vote Democrat because of ideas or values, because in Israel they are Far Right and running a racist apartheid state. So why do Jews vote hard right for Israel, but hard left for USA? Why the obvious and disgraceful hypocrisy?
Summed up here, they join in the hate parade.
“The Obama coalition of fringe elements in American society is united by one main driving force: resentment of the core groups in American society—such as married white people. Hence the vitriol from the victors since Tuesday, with much chest pounding about the long-hoped for death of white America.”
“the Jews’ voting patterns are very cohesive along racial lines ”
So are the ~30% who voted for Romney the self-haters, or the true jews?
“Where is fails is providing routine and general services to everybody.”
Yes, and in cost containment.
Tell me, why did the insurance industry and the Rs strenuously oppose government insurance exchanges?
I’ll take my answer off the air.
“i had a client today walk in, $70k in medicals from some broken bones, no ins. got stitched up real good. But no ins. Guess who pays for that? ”
You don’t understand the reason that it’s 70k in the first place is the final price is multiplied by the negligent probability of collection. If you think the 70k is at all related to the actual cost to provide such services I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
” and affordable access for all to education ”
So you believe in the government getting more involved in and lowering the cost of financing leadings to increased “affordable access to education”? I definitely have a bridge to sell you.
All these things you want for everyone (healthcare, education) will just cause their equilibrium price to rise once the govt tries to ensure everyone has them. This is why you’ll likely have a lower standard of living than your parents, and your children similarly lower than yours. You just see stuff you want and don’t understand the long-term implications of voting oneself treats. You and millions just like you, that is.
He can’t type without lying while spewing his wrongful and dead wrong premised hate. In 2008 Seals defeated Jay Footlik (he’s from Skokie helmuthead & practices his religion at a ___ and we know where you will go with this)
“the long-term implications of voting oneself treats”
longer life expectancy, economic growth, higher productivity … all that awful shit
Southbound – good post. I’d forgotten about Jay Footlik. And yes, sorry to ruin your stereotype, Helmet, but I voted for Seals over Footlik despite my sharing a religion with Footlik. And, despite my shared religion with Eric Cantor, I think he’s one of the worst politicians in the country.
Please, get some therapy. You have a lot of unresolved hatred.
It’s quite simple guys. Liberals think with their hearts while conservatives think with their minds.
The reason obama won:
People like free stuff especially when they don’t have to pay for it, ie why does the south side dominate the vote for a clear Crook (jesse jackson) and DC back in the day for Mayor Barry even though he got caught on video camera smoking crack with a hooker in public office? Because they can guarantee these people ‘free things’ to incentavize them not to work. Why work at Mcdonalds for 8 dollars an hour at minimum wage when you can sit on unemployment benefits and gov handouts/food stamps at the equivalent of about 5-6 dollars an hour?
Are you kidding? Marian Barry has been considered a complete joke by everyone I know for years. I don’t think anyone respects him, and I mean blacks as well as whites.
Jesse Jackson Jr. – I can’t understand how anyone could vote for him. Sad to see.
“So are the ~30% who voted for Romney the self-haters, or the true jews?”
In past elections the R candidate was pulling ~16% of that vote iirc (at least 2004) and I think it highly unlikely Mitt doubled his share. It is possible given where most stand on the socioeconomic ladder, but still highly unlikely.
All the jews I know aside from the ones that work on Wall St. were in O’s camp. However there could be some bias given he’s the hometown candidate and most jews I know aren’t big into their faith (you ain’t gonna find Bob interacting with Orthodox jews/Amish/Mennonites in any usual context).
Bet Mitt pulled 16% or less of the Jew vote.
“Liberals think with their hearts while conservatives think with their minds.”
Stop with that mind-thinking thing. Especially with your mad unskewing skills. It’s unfair to us heart-thinkers.
Universal care is costs less for better outcomes throughout the rest of the developed world. We have a lot to learn from them on reducing our per capita expense.
Regarding “liberals”, one of my favorite liberals, Chris Hedges, had this to say about the election:
“The presidential election exposed the liberal class as a corpse. It fights for nothing. It stands for nothing. It is a useless appendage to the corporate state. It exists not to make possible incremental or piecemeal reform, as it originally did in a functional capitalist democracy; instead it has devolved into an instrument of personal vanity, burnishing the hollow morality of its adherents. Liberals, by voting for Barack Obama, betrayed the core values they use to define themselves—the rule of law, the safeguarding of civil liberties, the protection of unions, the preservation of social welfare programs, environmental accords, financial regulation, a defiance of unjust war and torture, and the abolition of drone wars. The liberal class clung desperately during the long nightmare of this political campaign to one or two issues, such as protecting a woman’s right to choose and gender equality, to justify its complicity in a monstrous evil. This moral fragmentation—using an isolated act of justice to define one’s self while ignoring the vast corporate assault on the nation and the ecosystem along with the pre-emptive violence of the imperial state—is moral and political capitulation. It fails to confront the evil we have become. ” [truthdig.com/report/item/once_again_–_death_of_the_liberal_class_20121112/]
Finally, I am willing to let the government have a shot at the banking sector, after reading the IMF paper on revisiting The Chicago Plan. The banksters would never let it happen, it would kill the casino. So far it seems the conservatives (Mises Institute) are firmly against it, the Keynesians are conspicuously silent. Nobody wants to be wrong.
I am still wading through the paper, here is some commentary on it from the Telegraph:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/9623863/IMFs-epic-plan-to-conjure-away-debt-and-dethrone-bankers.html
“Are you kidding? Marian Barry has been considered a complete joke by everyone I know for years. I don’t think anyone respects him, and I mean blacks as well as whites.”
Hi Dan –
With all due respect because I like you, you are wrong here.
I lived in DC during the Marion Barry years.
The locals LOVED him even after the “the bitch set me up” scandal.
He doled out thousands of city jobs to the inept and lazy to buy their votes.
I worked in a hospital at the time.
He came to the ER once and I witnessed a long line of people waiting to kiss his ring.
I’m telling you, the people loved him.
And the guy had a lot of charisma.
He was a born politician.
“In October 1991, Barry surrendered himself at a correctional facility in Petersburg, Virginia. While serving his time, Barry was accused of letting a woman perform oral sex on him in a prison waiting room,[57] a charge Barry denied.”
he got reelected 1994
seems like he was both a joke and respected
OK – I stand corrected.
“Do these “sizeable” minorities happen to be Samoan Mormons?”
Anon, there was a sale on those little cans of vienna cocktail sausages at Aldi.
The employees were hauling them out by the pallet, they couldn’t keep them on the shelf!
This Samoan family in front of me in line bought 19 cans.
It stuck in my head because 19 was just such an odd number.
Why just 19?
Why not make it 20?
But yes, the whole family was sizeable!
(FHA) Housing Agency Close to Exhausting Reserves
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324595904578119140604024484.html