“Magazine Caliber Renovation” Of A 3-Bedroom Lakeview Townhouse: 1246 W. Oakdale

This 3-bedroom townhouse at 1246 W. Oakdale in Lakeview recently came on the market.

This is a small townhouse development and units rarely come on the market.

The listing says it’s had a “magazine caliber renovation.”

For a townhouse, this one has a unique layout as it’s a front end unit that is 44 feet wide and has a southern exposure.

It has its own private front yard.

At 3000 square feet, it’s also as large as many single family homes.

The kitchen has custom white cabinets and a 7 foot dark walnut island with granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances.

There is a first floor family room along with a big lower level great room.

The master bedroom is on the top floor along with a roof deck and the other two bedrooms are on the second floor.

The listing says it’s in the Agassiz school district.

It’s come on the market $69,000 above the 2005 purchase price.

Will it get the premium?

Keith Wilkey at Prudential Rubloff has the listing. See the pictures here.

1246 W. Oakdale: 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 3000 square feet, 1 car garage

  • Sold in July 2002 for $565,000
  • Sold in May 2005 for $630,000
  • Currently listed for $699,000
  • Assessments of $298 a month (includes snow removal)
  • Taxes of $9434
  • Central Air
  • Bedroom #1: 16×13 (third floor)
  • Bedroom #2: 15×10 (second floor)
  • Bedroom #3: 15×10 (second floor)
  • Family room: 17×12 (main floor)
  • Great room: 28×16 (lower level)

422 Responses to ““Magazine Caliber Renovation” Of A 3-Bedroom Lakeview Townhouse: 1246 W. Oakdale”

  1. Family Circle

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +5 (from 5 votes)
  2. I bet this sells fast, not my style but It has just about everything most buyers are looking for in this area.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +5 (from 5 votes)
  3. Speaking of magazines, reminds me of this mistake my secretary made. I asked her to order some magazines for our reception area. She knows I am an airplane nut, so she ended up ordering Jet magazine mistakenly thinking it was about airplanes. LOL! I don’t read a lot of interior design mags, but I know this place hasn’t been featured in Jet.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -4 (from 18 votes)
  4. Magazine caliber? I’m confused: http://www.berettausa.com/products/magazinet3270wsm300wsm3rd/

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 5 votes)
  5. “You’re getting rid of the goddamn pool table before we put our townhome on the market. You can keep the cues and the rack, and you should be happy I let you have that!”

    Seems reasonably well priced, would be surprised if someone isn’t interested in this one around $650k or so. The layout probably appeals to people used to relatively narrow townhomes. Agassiz instead of Burley hurts it by maybe $50 – $100k?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 1 vote)
  6. Nice place. But they need to replace the microwave with a hood and upgrade the appliances. Low $600k’s seems reasonable.

    Were it in a better location (and thus, as a bonus, in a better elem attendance area), we’d be taking a look.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 4 votes)
  7. It looks to me like the huge island basically eats up the dining or breakfast room. The dining table looks to be in the living area and a couch in the dining area. The furniture placement is throwing me enough that I need a floorplan!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 5 votes)
  8. Very nice and seems like a good deal. Obviously this family isn’t happy with the school choice. Next stop, North Shore!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 6 votes)
  9. “magazine caliber renovation”

    i agree, pottery barn is a very nice magazine

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 9 votes)
  10. I have nothing negative to say about this place. Looks good to me.

    I was thinking the broker missed “Lives Like Sfh” in the description, but it’s in there.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 4 votes)
  11. The listing agent does like the word “caliber” – there’s also a “spa-caliber” bath. I do like the giraffe in the kid’s room that’s trying to make a break for it out the window.

    In rereading the listing, perhaps the reference is to “Exceptional Magazine”.

    http://www.ey.com/UK/en/About-us/Entrepreneurship/Entrepreneur-Of-The-Year/_EOY—Exceptional-magazine

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  12. Wow. I’m glad I don’t have a $417,000 mortgage! Of course, if you’re making half a million a year, maybe it’s no big deal. I’ll never know!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 1 vote)
  13. according to hd, that’s not a big mortgage for most GZ types. I thought they were being conservative, limiting it to the conforming max!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 3 votes)
  14. If the GZ crowd with $400,000 and up mortgages are so rich, why do they have mortgages at all? Just pay cash!

    I saw a co-op for sale at 2430 N. Lakeview. It was listed at around $5 million, with a monthly assessment of around $4,000. And the ad noted, “Cash-only building.” Nice. That’ll keep out the riff raff! I bet the board reviews are tough too.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 5 votes)
  15. Dan, 2430 N Lakeview is one of the three or four most beautiful vintage buildings in the city. It is one of David Adler’s buildings, and the architecture and decorative elements are really exceptional.

    It is also a very high maintenance building. I am trying to remember the maintenance and taxes I was quoted back in the 90s for a unit then on the market, but I figured you would have to have a minimum income of $500,000 a year if you inherited the place tax-free and didn’t need to furnish it or do work on it. $800K a year is really more like it. Thus the all-cash requirement- the owners want to make sure you have the wherewithal to carry your load, that’s all. And, after seeing so many condo associations fall into very bad trouble because of the sheer number of defaulting and delinquent owners, I’m beginning to see the advantages of an all-cash co-op, though not in THAT bracket.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 4 votes)
  16. “If the GZ crowd with $400,000 and up mortgages are so rich, why do they have mortgages at all? Just pay cash!”

    I wonder too. But when HD digs into the ccrd on a given CC posting, he usually reveals that the Mcmansion comes with a large % of debt. maybe Clio could answer it. What’s his mortgage?

    Plus, if one were to agree with HD that many of the mcmansion buyers have $1 million total mortgages, then why hasn’t there been more distress at the higher end? You’d think that some of these folks have had to had their incomes cut, for various reasons, and with the total bills facing them, would be in trouble. But there really aren’t that many lis pendens at the higher end in the best GZ hoods, despite all the debt there.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 2 votes)
  17. “Plus, if one were to agree with HD that many of the mcmansion buyers have $1 million total mortgages, then why hasn’t there been more distress at the higher end”

    I agree with you guys that most of these guys are not really rich. They just earn in excess of $300K are brain washed into thinking debtbis good, mortgage is tax deductable, blah blah…
    The reason there are less distressed sales (if indeed this is the case) might be because higher paying jobs are often more secure. On the other hand, it might just be our perception as there are way fewer McMansions than typical condos featured here.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 5 votes)
  18. All our properties are paid off, we have lines of credit on them.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  19. Helmet, the higher end has done well, very well this bust. When you hear about ‘wealth disparity’ what they mean in plain English is that “the rich get richer and the poor get poorer”. That’s why there’s not as much pain on the high end, but the low end, like Dolton, south and west sides, they can’t even give away property for free. for example I know of plenty of patent attorneys in their 30’s making close to $300,000 (Based on class year and bonus size, not actually seeing the w-2’s); I have one friend from high school who does advertising and his wife is biglaw – age 35, together they’re pulling in probably close to $450 or $500 a year between the two of them. That’s some serious cash anyway you look at it. High end competent lawyers with niches will do well, it’s a lot of the other lawyers who are hurting.

    When homes in teh GZ cost a millions, and you income can support a mortgage of a million – you take out nearly a million dollar mortgage. No one ever expects to pay off these homes. Nobody lives tehre long enough to actually make a sizable dent in the principal. Who grows old these days living in a million dollar house in lakeview or bucktown? nobody – it’s just one high income earning housing trading mortgage payments and teh bank collects interest every step of the way. It’s the way of life, it’s today’s culture.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 8 votes)
  20. See the crib? Of course they’re heading for a SFH, most likely in the suburbs, with a small chance of staying in teh city. HOwever, given the crib and the expenses and maybe even a stay at home money – the monthly payment they make on this house could buy them a really nice median priced home in any one of the top tier suburbs I listed earlier today in the alta vista post. And I wouldn’t blame them. FOr all of time it’s been the ‘dream’ to own a country estate away from the unkempt masses in the city and only in the recent modern times has it been ‘cool’ to be urban and city like; the suburbs and the open space is about the closest to the country villa (or walled castle) a landed gentry can get.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -5 (from 17 votes)
  21. “Of course they’re heading for a SFH, most likely in the suburbs, with a small chance of staying in teh city.”

    Who knows. Biggest reasons to go to the burbs are free schools and a bit more space (I guess a yard too, but to get much of a yard on the NS east of GB, that’s a lot of dough). But if a family is open to religious schools, that opens up quite a few options in the city (and they seem to cost about as much as the best co op preschools). Who knows what this seller’s situation is.

    But yes, the burbs are compelling for lots of folks. I know of a few junior partners with big, new SFHs up in anon’s neck of the woods. But I also know of a few junior and mid level partners with homes in the burbs. Notably, many of the latter group purchased during the boom, and thus are in very nice burbs, but not the NS (where most senior partners seem to live). Oh well, their tuitions were much lower, their school loan interest rates were much lower, they became partners in the pre-recession heyday, and have been able to refi their mortgages. Can’t have everything. For those becoming partner right now, or in the next few years, maybe we’ll see a trend heading back to the NS burbs.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  22. “because higher paying jobs are often more secure”

    That is not entirely true. I have interviewed many individuals that think they are $150K people. At one time they were earning that amount but now their value to the market place has dropped off significantly.

    “Who grows old these days living in a million dollar house in lakeview or bucktown? nobody – it’s just one high income earning housing trading mortgage payments and teh bank collects interest every step of the way. It’s the way of life, it’s today’s culture.”

    HD – Well said. The same concept exists in autos and there it is simply called a lease. People want the flashy newest model every two or three years and have no plans to ever actually own the car. Perhaps we should change the way people use housing. Maybe we should change the name Real Estate Agent to mid term housing lease consultants.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  23. “stay at home money”

    Haha.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  24. Nice home!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 1 vote)
  25. Wealthy people use mortgages for flexibility. Just because they can buy a home outright doesn’t mean they want to tie up all that $$. And you only get one shot to get a tax deductible mortgage – when you first purchase. That is why you aren’t seeing nearly as many distressed sales in the high end GZ properties – they may have mortgages on the properties but they also have a lot of assets outside of their home. This is different from the lower end where people put all of their savings into a down payment because they have been told that housing is the best investment. Of course there were people living above their means in the high end also – and they have mostly been carried out.
    I don’t know why you all think the high end buyers aren’t in it for the long term – all the older law partners in the city I know (with families) have been living in their homes for long periods of time (from when their kids were 2+ to high school). My neighbors ($1.5mm+ SFHs) have been in their homes for 5-15 yrs.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +5 (from 5 votes)
  26. Just a reminder:

    I know you’re not using anyone’s name- but please refrain from commenting about a seller’s personal/professional life unless they’re a public figure (like Nate Berkus, for instance.) He puts himself out there and features his properties in national magazines. Others do not.

    We don’t “know” what the situation is with ANY seller so please don’t speculate. Someone could be moving to Kansas for all we know.

    VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +4 (from 6 votes)
  27. I don’t know what “magazine” sets the standard, but our renovation is all done, and pix got put up here:

    http://www.houzz.com/projects/139225/Avondale-Residence-Remodel

    Now comes the fun part of paying for it over the next 3 decades!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  28. “Of course they’re heading for a SFH, most likely in the suburbs, with a small chance of staying in teh city. HOwever, given the crib and the expenses and maybe even a stay at home money – the monthly payment they make on this house could buy them a really nice median priced home in any one of the top tier suburbs I listed earlier today in the alta vista post. And I wouldn’t blame them. FOr all of time it’s been the ‘dream’ to own a country estate away from the unkempt masses in the city and only in the recent modern times has it been ‘cool’ to be urban and city like; the suburbs and the open space is about the closest to the country villa (or walled castle) a landed gentry can get.”

    You know what’s funny? Yuppie people in the NS burbs are raising their kids one day to end up in the city anyway! Everyone thinks little Josh or Chad will end up in LP or Manhattan etc. So why even bother with the burbs then? It’s like city-lite, and then these parents feel the pressure and need to take “city” excursions, whatever they may be: museums, dinners, sports events, parades…the occasional bleeding heart in a soup kitchen volunteer session, shopping, etc.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -4 (from 12 votes)
  29. “Yuppie people in the NS burbs are raising their kids one day to end up in the city anyway! ”

    The city is just a short term stop before returning to the NS

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 8 votes)
  30. I wonder if you interviewed the average NS couple, how many years on average would their city-living years total?

    I would guess 10 years, on average?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 8 votes)
  31. “I wonder if you interviewed the average NS couple, how many years on average would their city-living years total?

    I would guess 10 years, on average?”

    Yeah, but that’s not specific to NS people. Professionals in Chicago nearly all live in the city while they’re young and move to the burbs at some point after having children. Most of my professional high school friends moved to the city and nearly all of my working stiff type friends from highschool remained in teh burbs; and many of them actually moved farther north and northwest into lake and mchenry county.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 6 votes)
  32. There is a definite increase in younger families staying in Chicago. That doesn’t mean people still don’t move out to Napperville, there will always be lemmings.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 10 votes)
  33. did anyone read the Vanity Fair article where the Emanuel brothers claim they were victims at Foster Ave beach as kids? Man, those people recycle the same total-BS every generation.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -10 (from 14 votes)
  34. This particular listing looks ok, but it isn’t something that many people aspire to reach some day. Instead, they view it as a stepping stone between a smaller condo and a larger place, most likely a SFH.

    There really aren’t that many people consistently earning more than $200K in W-2 or earned income. It varies from year to year which is what causes the wealthy to want to have mortgages, so they can be more flexible in their lifestyle overall. Many people think they will hit that income level someday, but many will not, adjusted for inflation. Also, tax deductions for mortgages for higher earners will start to be phased out as the government confiscates more money to pay for health care in the long run.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  35. skeptic – dafuq is with that staircase railing? You steal that from somewhere?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  36. It’s pretty cool, actually, they used the same motif for the porch & upstairs deck off the bedroom (done after the pix).

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  37. “There really aren’t that many people consistently earning more than $200K in W-2 or earned income”

    I saw some documents with information filed under oath the other day. Age 36, married, two kids, household income of $800,000 w-2 income.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 3 votes)
  38. I’ve been in 2430 N. Lakeview – actually spent a lot of time there because a friend of mine lived there when we were kids. He and his family had two half floors duplexed pretty high up in the building. It was the most beautiful apartment I’ve ever seen. Floor-to-ceiling windows looking over the park and lake in the living room; marble floors; a curving staircase up to the second floor; massive rooms; private elevator entrance; a home theater and a maid’s room that was used by an actual live-in maid. I still remember thinking that my friend’s room, which was in the back of the upstairs, was bigger than my family’s living room. If I had all the money I ever needed and was going to pick a building to live in, this would probably be it.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  39. “I saw some documents with information filed under oath the other day. Age 36, married, two kids, household income of $800,000 w-2 income.”

    You truly are a big shot, with your ability to access documents that confirm that there are people with high incomes out there. I knew this baller once who had access to the records the IRS releases publicly describing taxpayer income, not sure how he got stuff like that!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +8 (from 12 votes)
  40. jjj bigger shot than y

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -7 (from 11 votes)
  41. jjj bigger shot than you are, bitch.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -9 (from 15 votes)
  42. “wealthy” people deal in cash, working wealthy with borrowed money and they too can get burned

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  43. I guess it makes sense not to spend so much paying off a mortgage if you know you’ll be moving soon. But what if you want to spend the next 15-20 years in a home? Does it make sense then? Think of all the interest you’ll save.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  44. With rates as low as they are, many people don’t even want to pay off their mortgage. They may even go to a 7/1 hybrid ARM to further lower the cost of their debt on a monthly basis. It’s almost like renting from the bank in this day and age.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  45. HD, what’s wrong, what’s w all the uncouthness today?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +6 (from 8 votes)
  46. I guess so, Dave. But our mortgage was in the $200,000 range, a 30-year, and we would have paid $160,000 in interest over the 20 years remaining on it even at low current rates. Seems like a lot of money to just give to the bank.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  47. My mistake – the mortgage was around $220,000 (that was what was left on the original $250K after 10 years of paying).

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  48. January was the best month I’ve ever had so I’m a little cocky lately.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 10 votes)
  49. I like you hd but you’d best settle down before going home to mrs hd.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 4 votes)
  50. I went home to mrs hd early today ….

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 4 votes)
  51. “Professionals in Chicago nearly all live in the city while they’re young and move to the burbs at some point after having children.”

    It’s funny they can’t ever connect the dots why they can’t/won’t remain. Nor can they ever get sufficient critical mass (beyond a few elementary schools in pockets) to affect change.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  52. Same here, Dan#2. If I had a net worth of at least $20M, 2430 would be my choice. Last I heard, units were selling for right around $4M.

    I understand all the units are duplexes with 2 half-floors, about 8,000 sq ft, 12′ ceilings on the main living level a graceful circular staircase, and 4 fireplaces, plus maids’ rooms on the lower floor, 5 bathrooms, and beautiful paneling in the library and living room. Most of the units are very Georgian in their decorative details, but one unit that came on the market a couple of years ago looked very French.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  53. “Nor can they ever get sufficient critical mass (beyond a few elementary schools in pockets) to affect change.”

    Don’t fix what ain’t broken. I played with my kids in my backyard today in the snow and we had fun. Then we watched the dozens of birds that live or frolic in the hedges: cardinals, bluejays, wood peckers, nuthatches, wrens, sparrows, gold finches, chickadees etc. Then we drove a few blocks to the big sled hill with all the other neighborhood children (and every child was speaking english too) and sledded for an or so. then we walked to the park and chilled out for a while. then we drove 3 minutes back to the house and walked inside to my newly renovated house that costs me less than $2,000 a month. I couldn’t replicate this experience in the GZ, or in any other neighborhood in the city for less than $500,000 and my garage would be broken into a couple times a year, or I’d be paying $5,000 a year to send my kid to some mediocre private catholic school, we’d have a gator deck instead of a yard. It’s a no brainer and anybody who has a household income betweetn 100k and 200k who wants to stay in the city with kids is either naive or an idiot. Give me 100 thumbs down, and deny the truth, but it is the truth. I wouldn’t go back to the city unless I could get a 50′ wide lot in the GZ with SFH for less than $400k – which is NON-EXISTENT. Did i Mention I had a fabulous lunch yesterday at high end river north restaurant for restraurant week yesterday too? the wife and I cabbed it to the metra from the restaurant and caught teh 3:00 train and was home in less than 35 minutes door to door. beats waiting for some dumb bus in the cold just to sit in traffic on halsted street on a friday afternoon. whatever, I don’t care.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 21 votes)
  54. “every child was speaking english too”

    Was every child speaking english around you when you were growing up? Did that really do *that* much for you?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +5 (from 7 votes)
  55. “I couldn’t replicate this experience in the GZ, or in any other neighborhood in the city for less than $500,000 and my garage would be broken into a couple times a year, or I’d be paying $5,000 a year to send my kid to some mediocre private catholic school, we’d have a gator deck instead of a yard.”

    HD- I agree with you. For the upper middle class income households ($100k to $200k) it makes no sense to stay in Chicago. The housing isn’t affordable in the few neighborhoods with the good elementary schools (and then you have the high school problem anyway.) Everyone always says, “you can put them in the catholic school” but many of the suburban public elementary schools are far better than the average catholic school. Sorry- but not every private school is “good” just because it’s private.

    HD- your example of what you did with your kid this weekend is the perfect example of what I say happens anyway. Once you have kids, your life revolves around them. Where are the local parks you want to go to? Where will be the 4th of July parades? How many soccer games will you sit on the sidelines at one the weekends for 5 years?

    Yes- the commute plays a factor for many buyers. But many inner ring suburbs are actually closer to the loop (if that’s where you work) than living in the city (specifically North Center, Lincoln Square.) If you live in Oak Park- you’ll get downtown much faster than Lincoln Square (but you’re not, alas, riding your bike to Wrigley Field. That’s true.)

    The upper middle class is priced out of the GZ except for duplex condos and smaller townhouses. That has to be the question then. Are you okay with raising your kids in an 1800 square foot condo? In NY and other “urban” cities the answer would be “yes.” But Chicago isn’t urban. The nice 3-bedroom home with the backyard in Park Ridge will win out almost every single time.

    For all of you who say there is a kid explosion in Chicago’s near north side neighborhoods- that is happening in very, very few areas. The rest of the city is losing kids under 10 hand over fist.

    VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 12 votes)
  56. “Was every child speaking english around you when you were growing up? Did that really do *that* much for you?”

    For the most part, yes. The areas I grew up in have taken a turn for the worse and there are much poorer and less native English speakers. Call me crazy that I want to live in an area and send my kids to a school where everyone speaks English and the teacher can spend time teaching instead of teaching remedial English to half the class that grows up in nonenglish speaking households. That’s one of the reasons why standardized test scores in this area are so damn high.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 5 votes)
  57. I still make it into the city everyday for work and I can still enjoy the culture like restaurant week in river north. And I can still just take a 7$ cab to the metra and catch a train home in roughly 30 mins and I have a short walk into the neihborhood to get home. The only thing I can’t do as much is the nightlife but that’s more a function of having kids than living in the suburbs anyway.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 4 votes)
  58. Agree with your post, Sabrina, for people with kids making low 6 figures. That’s the case for us, and living on the NS made much more sense than any other option. I do miss the city though, and would like to spend more time there than I do.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 4 votes)
  59. @HD

    so with your move to somewhere (Park Ridge, Des Plains, Arlington, etc.), if you were going from home to office, what is your total travel time from the moment you leave the door to your butt is in your seat.

    assumption: your office is the loop proper

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  60. “(and every child was speaking english too)”
    I find this the saddest statement on this site for quite some time.
    Your whole post reads like you are trying to justify your new life and make yourself comfortable when in reality you seem to be questioning your decision to move out of the city where the multi cultural element adds to the real flavor of the city.
    So for the “privilege” of living amongst only English speaking people you spend $280 per month in taxis plus the cost of the Metra ticket and the five hour commute. I am in no way knocking your decision to live where you like it just seems that you yourself are not that convinced quite yet.
    Living in and growing up in both NYC and South Florida, I felt very fortunate to hear many different languages spoken every day and to see, feel and taste the ‘multi-cultureness’ of it all (yeah I realize that is not a word but you get the meaning). For me personally it added something to my life that no amount of money could allow me to have…cultural diversity.
    Now as a retired adult in my 50’s my life has been made SO much richer than if I had been forced to reside amongst English only speaking white people. It’s like being made to go to Baskin Robbins every day and having to choose only Vanilla ice cream. Good while it is in your mouth, but in the long run you really never know the ‘flavor’ you are missing.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 15 votes)
  61. “Now as a retired adult in my 50?s my life has been made SO much richer than if I had been forced to reside amongst English only speaking white people.”

    Racist. anti-white racist…

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -8 (from 14 votes)
  62. skeptic, nice reno!!
    One thing that you will probably regret later is installing that stair rail as over time it will start to ‘sag’ and lean downwards due to the angle, as it goes down the stairs. I have seen this in a number of multi level apartments here in NYC where this trend almost caught on in the early 70’s. I see that is it welded in a number of places but even then I believe, it will have to be replaced with a regular railing.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 3 votes)
  63. ” It’s like being made to go to Baskin Robbins every day and having to choose only Vanilla ice cream. Good while it is in your mouth, but in the long run you really never know the ‘flavor’ you are missing.”

    How about comparing eating ice cream to eating turds? That’s the better analogy. As far as I am concerned the fruits and diversity provided by white culture (basically Europe from Russia to Spain, from Ireland to Greece and EVERYTHING in between, America, Australia, Canada, as it all once existed was offerred plenty of flavors and enough diversity. You could add in your occasional NE Asian thing, like something Chinese or Japanese as a diversion, but our own White culture was just fine for us, westloopelo. Spanish is a white european language, and all Mexican and South American culture and garbage you get in S. Florida is just dumb-downed, mongrelized, and bastardized culture that’s superior in the Iberian part of White Europe.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -12 (from 16 votes)
  64. I don’t quite understand exactly what it is you are trying to say helmet…but based on your past racist/homophobic/anti feminist posts I get it is not a good thing.
    Me a Racist. anti-white racist. ROTFLMFAO!!!!! If you weren’t so sad and closed minded I might…just might be offended. But such is not the case.
    You know nothing about my ethnic background or my belief system and all I know about you was mentioned above. Can you perhaps give me the addy of one of the Nazi Aryan brotherhood websites you frequent?
    I have too much respect for Sabrina and her fantastic REAL ESTATE website to discuss our cultural differences and beliefs. I am sure one of your ‘brotherhood websites would be a more appropriate venue to discuss this matter.
    Post one of them and we’ll go at it…

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +10 (from 14 votes)
  65. 45 mins door to door. not great but the metra to me is better than sitting on a bus, standing on a train or driving in a car. the metra pass is $121 a month. I don’t question my decision anymore. I did on the day I closed but now I would never go back to city unless I had enough money to live like the top 2%. being only top 10% I’m poor in the gz.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +4 (from 6 votes)
  66. I said speaking English, not ‘white’ which is a difference. There’s plenty of diversity here I think 20% of the town is foreign born but they try to assimilate unlike elsewhere.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +4 (from 4 votes)
  67. What was the door to door when you were in the city?

    I think the differential is a more compelling statistic rather than the absolute time.

    assumption: not counting amount of time spent outside of the office, which if substantial throws the differential out of wack

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  68. Jesus Dan!

    The Mexicans ARE Spanish, for all intents and purposes (combined with the Aztecs and Mayan blood.) Wow. I’m so sick of your rants. Please stop it. I hate deleting all of your racist comments. And how are the Brazilians not portuguese any more than the English Americans???

    It’s hard to believe someone as hard core racist as you still exists- but I know that it is true because here you are spewing it all the time. It’s hard to believe someone could be filled with that much hate and be that ugly in their life. I used to think maybe you would learn something reading this site but a long time ago I realized that that was never going to be true. The hatred can’t be cured.

    Please go away.

    VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +16 (from 20 votes)
  69. “What was the door to door when you were in the city?’

    The El sucked all last week because of the cold. Massive switching problems. One day it took me over an hour to get downtown. Should I be moving?

    VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 4 votes)
  70. Here’s the facts:

    Student racial breakdown
    African-American: 41.6%
    Latino: 44.1%
    White: 8.8%
    Asian/Pacific Islander: 3.4%
    Native American: 0.4%

    This is HUGE factor that relates to real estate in Chicago. It’s a major factor. Westloopelo is trying to BS everyone with his false reality fictional narrative. He’s an open homosexual, liberal, and in total denial of the facts….facts that matter to people when they make their RE decisions, whether they are willing to admit it or not. I am willing to be truthful and honest.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -8 (from 14 votes)
  71. My commute in the city was 35-45 minutes depending on how long I had to wait on the el platform and how long the train ride too. At least now I have a very steady schedule and I get a seat on a quiet commute. It’s a solid 45 mins including walking to / from office and home but its a pleasant 45 minutes and its shorter than driving downtown in traffic.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 4 votes)
  72. “My commute in the city was 35-45 minutes depending on how long I had to wait on the el platform and how long the train ride too.”

    I remember a more optimistic estimate in the past, but then you’re prob understating current commute. Ever since the dark days of the slow zones (what, more than five years ago?) blue line has been remarkably consistent. Refuse to believe 10 min range on a regular basis in your old commute.

    “At least now I have a very steady schedule and I get a seat on a quiet commute.”

    I think of being on a schedule as a neg. Can’t leave when you’re done; have to wait (waht? 30 min?) for the next express if you run late on something; hard to manage the random early/late kid thing. Do you really care that much about sitting for 20 min? Can’t believe you couldn’t a seat from OIP in the mornings.

    BEing relatively close and being able to get home in 15 min cab ride is also valuable.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 4 votes)
  73. “The El sucked all last week because of the cold. Massive switching problems. One day it took me over an hour to get downtown. Should I be moving?”

    Really? I rode it M-F last week, didn’t have a problem. What line?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 4 votes)
  74. “HD- I agree with you. For the upper middle class income households ($100k to $200k) it makes no sense to stay in Chicago. The housing isn’t affordable in the few neighborhoods with the good elementary schools (and then you have the high school problem anyway.) Everyone always says, “you can put them in the catholic school” but many of the suburban public elementary schools are far better than the average catholic school. Sorry- but not every private school is “good” just because it’s private.

    HD- your example of what you did with your kid this weekend is the perfect example of what I say happens anyway. Once you have kids, your life revolves around them. Where are the local parks you want to go to? Where will be the 4th of July parades? How many soccer games will you sit on the sidelines at one the weekends for 5 years?

    Yes- the commute plays a factor for many buyers. But many inner ring suburbs are actually closer to the loop (if that’s where you work) than living in the city (specifically North Center, Lincoln Square.) If you live in Oak Park- you’ll get downtown much faster than Lincoln Square (but you’re not, alas, riding your bike to Wrigley Field. That’s true.)

    The upper middle class is priced out of the GZ except for duplex condos and smaller townhouses. That has to be the question then. Are you okay with raising your kids in an 1800 square foot condo? In NY and other “urban” cities the answer would be “yes.” But Chicago isn’t urban. The nice 3-bedroom home with the backyard in Park Ridge will win out almost every single time.

    For all of you who say there is a kid explosion in Chicago’s near north side neighborhoods- that is happening in very, very few areas. The rest of the city is losing kids under 10 hand over fist.”

    The city is losing kids in poor areas. North side and central area schools are bursting. This is true in non GZ too. Essentially poor blacks keep leaving unfortunately.

    There are very nice places to raise a family in Chicago that aren’t in the GZ. Of course, I still am not sure what that is exactly. Is it LP and Lake View and Near South, North and West only?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 7 votes)
  75. The northside Catholic schools have begun to see enrollment increases also. This is the first time in like 30 years that has happened.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 6 votes)
  76. I disagree with people regarding living in Chicago area, the only place to live is in the City. If you’re going to live in a suburb, you may as well move to Indianapolis.

    You can buy a very nice home for $250K.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 9 votes)
  77. “You can buy a very nice home for $250K.”

    Where are you buying a *very nice* home (assuming you mean an SFH) for $250 that (a) has a viable K-12 (bc if you’re buying at $250 you prob don’t have ton of money for private school) or even just elem and (b) is appreciably different than some of the closer in burbs (==indianapolis)? Example?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 3 votes)
  78. “Then we drove a few blocks to the big sled hill with all the other neighborhood children (and every child was speaking english too).”

    The park, sledding hill, backyard birds and upgraded house all sound great, but how do you intend to shield the little homedeletes from the monolingual dullardry that is apparently rampant the area?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 9 votes)
  79. “Essentially poor blacks keep leaving unfortunately. ”

    Daley spent most of his time as mayor sublty (mainly; some things not so subtle) working to that end.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +4 (from 4 votes)
  80. DZ: 5 minute walk to train (I cut it pretty close); 30 minute train ride; 5 to 10 minute walk to office depending on weather conditions and sidewalk traffic. 45 minutes door to door.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  81. The northside isn’t necessarily ‘bursting’ there are a lot more children in NS schools than in years past but outside of a handful of northside GZ elementries it’s the same ole CPS

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 5 votes)
  82. “5 minute walk to train (I cut it pretty close); 30 minute train ride; 5 to 10 minute walk to office depending on weather conditions and sidewalk traffic.”

    No wait time? You cut it that close (ie 30 seconds or less, so that it rounds down to zero) both morning and return (which would seem fantastic given the vagaries of your walk)?

    What time did you leave home this morning? How long wait for train? When did you get into office?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 5 votes)
  83. “What time did you leave home this morning? How long wait for train? When did you get into office?”

    Come on man, are you looking to stalk me? You want to meet me on the metra platform? I live a short walk from the metra, maybe even too close for some of the snobs on this website. The regular train is about a half an hour and the express run between 20-25 minutes – there’s always a delay in the morning getting into the station. It’s a few block walk to the office. Like I said 45 minutes. Somedays I leave the office a little early and stroll to the station and get on the train early, somedays I’m running.

    I actually enjoy being on the schedule. I have a family and I enjoy spending time with them. Being on a train (yeah, a train every half an hour until about 6:30) means I can stay a few minutes later and still get home in time for dinner. I’ve learned my lessons in life from other fathers who work too much – and they have divorces, or screwed up kids, or messed up home lives as a result of never being around.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 7 votes)
  84. I love suburban commute math

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +6 (from 8 votes)
  85. Thanks, Sabrina, for finally calling out Helmet in a public way.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 7 votes)
  86. “I love suburban commute math”

    If I start giving train times I’d make it easier for someone to out me. Yes it was shorter taking the el from irving/pulaski to downtown. The blue line stop is closer to my office. however, it’s only 10-15 minutes of a ride each way to live in the ‘burbs.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 5 votes)
  87. “Come on man, are you looking to stalk me? You want to meet me on the metra platform?”

    It’s easy to fall into SCM ((c) sonies) if you don’t think about hard data.

    PS I actually think you made a reasonable decision for your family. You don’t need to try to rationalize it.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 2 votes)
  88. “If I start giving train times I’d make it easier for someone to out me. ”

    I wasn’t asking for exact train times, just when you left and arrived (which wouldnt allow you to pin a location down with much specificity), bc that’s your real commute time.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 3 votes)
  89. Seriously now helmet…where exactly do you live that this type of belief system is accepted and which allows you to live comfortably? There is racial diversity all over the city and for the most part, all people are accepted.
    Here in NYC (and in most other large urban areas in the country) racial diversity is welcomed as it adds to the color of the neighborhood. On my block, which is considered to be in one of the highest rated and most desired places to live in the city…in the country, I can count at the very minimum, 20 different nationalities.
    No hate, no exclusion and no bigotry and no, this is NOT a factor to most buyers here in the city. Everyone lives next to each other in harmony. If someone were to lose their apartment/condo to say a fire or other catastrophe on my block, 95% of the other residents would open their doors to those who were displaced just as we did during the storm that came though a few months ago.
    While it is quite rare in itself, one of the units in my building was empty and I offered it to a family whose own unit was flooded and without electricity, They are of a different color and background than myself but to me that did not matter at all. I know this family well and just as anyone else on my block, they were more than welcome to stay for as long as they needed for their own home to be repaired.
    Last time I will respond to you as you are one sick, ugly, nasty person and I will have no more of your garbage.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +5 (from 15 votes)
  90. “The northside isn’t necessarily ‘bursting’ there are a lot more children in NS schools than in years past but outside of a handful of northside GZ elementries it’s the same ole CPS”

    There are many CPS elementary schools on the whole northside, even outside the GZ that are very good. I’m always amazed at how little people know about these schools.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +5 (from 11 votes)
  91. “even outside the GZ that are very good. I’m always amazed at how little people know about these schools.”

    What schools are those? It’s not belding, which to me is mediocre. It’s not disney ii, because they accept 40 kindergarten students per year from 800 applications. It’s not Scammon which was 3 blocks from me in the city. It’s not murphy or reilly or any other school within a 2 mile radius. Even in jefferson park the beaubian is ‘decent’ by city standards but not so hot by NW suburban, NS, western suburbs standards, You have to go to the outer reaches of the NW in sagunash or wildwood or edgebrook to get those ‘good’ schools – which at that point, everyone says Why bother with living in the city anyway?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 6 votes)
  92. DZ: I walked out my door at 6:20 and I arrived in my chair at my office at 7:10 (slushy outside today). I will leave work about 5:00 and I should be home by 5:45 for a piping hot tasty tv dinner fresh from teh microwave. Just kidding about that tv dinner part but I’ll be home by 5:45 and taking off my jacket.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 4 votes)
  93. “for finally calling out Helmet in a public way.”

    HD makes a comment, then westloopelo comes in here and thinks he can dictate to HD what to think and believe! Go back, review the thread. I didn’t start anything. I merely stuck up for HD. Westloopelo can rant all he wants, but at the end of the day he’s the bigot. A homosexual who demands that everyone else think the same way he does. Inquisitorial “tolerance”, bureaucratized equality, and the slavish uniformity of pluralism…it’s not for everyone westloopelo. Try and stick to RE, and stop derailing threads. I am not going to apologize for agreeing with HD.

    PS NYC has all but driven American blacks out of NYC, lots of opinion as to who, what, and why that happens. Go live in your Epcot-center, fake life in NYC, with all the singles and homosexuals, go eat out every night and pretend you’re somewhere else but where you are. It’s comical. Maybe someone should open a NW Side of Chicago Old-style bar, bring all the local bric-a-brac along and hire a Melman designer to outfit it, and the next thing someone like westlooplo will be in there bragging about its authenticity. It can even become trendy and a few d-bag “writers” can talk it up in a magazine as a hip hangout.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -5 (from 13 votes)
  94. Actually Beaubien is pretty. About 97% of it’s students non-low income students meet and exceed state tests with 64% exceeding. This is about 46% of the student body.

    Park Ridge elementary schools (an example) as a whole are 96% meets and exceeds and 45% exceeds.

    lemmings movet to the burbs

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 10 votes)
  95. “Actually Beaubien is pretty. About 97% of it’s students non-low income students meet and exceed state tests with 64% exceeding. This is about 46% of the student body.

    Park Ridge elementary schools (an example) as a whole are 96% meets and exceeds and 45% exceeds.”

    Sorry, those Park Ridge numbers exclude low income students like Beaubien’s numbers.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 7 votes)
  96. So Beaubien is better than Park Ridge schools as an example when comparing apples to apples.

    Non-low income students by schools
    Beaubien 46% of studen population
    97% meets and exceeds
    64% exceeds

    Park Ridge 94% of student population
    96% meets and exceeds
    45% exceeds

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 8 votes)
  97. “I should be home by 5:45 for a piping hot tasty tv dinner fresh from teh microwave. Just kidding about that tv dinner part but I’ll be home by 5:45 and taking off my jacket.”

    Sounds good. Let us know what you end up having for dinner.

    Also, would you put up some reno photos a la skeptic?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 3 votes)
  98. “So Beaubien is better than Park Ridge schools as an example when comparing apples to apples.”

    Are the beaubien stats for the neighborhood program?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 4 votes)
  99. “lemmings movet to the burbs”

    yeah some truth to that, right Dan#2?

    “The park, sledding hill, backyard birds and upgraded house all sound great, but how do you intend to shield the little homedeletes from the monolingual dullardry that is apparently rampant the area?”

    I’d like to ask Dan that same question. How boring, he self-segrates himself and his kids to avoid diversity, live in the epicenter of his own monocultural background, and then hypocritically whines about those of us that live (and deal) in Chicago and talk about it?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 8 votes)
  100. “I walked out my door at 6:20 and I arrived in my chair at my office at 7:10 (slushy outside today). I will leave work about 5:00 and I should be home by 5:45 for a piping hot tasty tv dinner fresh from teh microwave. Just kidding about that tv dinner part but I’ll be home by 5:45 and taking off my jacket.”

    LOL. To many white suburban teens, hipsters, etc. this sounds like hell on earth. But to the tens of millions that rely on foodstamps, have iilegitimate kids with no fathers, etc. it sounds like paradise.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 6 votes)
  101. Sure is great to have the arrogant and pompous new yorker crowd in here again… not

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +5 (from 5 votes)
  102. how do I post a pic anonymous?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  103. “Also, would you put up some reno photos a la skeptic?”

    I will tomorrow, I’ll take a pic tonight and post it tomorrow if somewhere shows me where I can post the pic anonymously.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 4 votes)
  104. imgur dot com is a good anon site

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  105. “Are the beaubien stats for the neighborhood program?”

    My guess is they include the gifted program. I can’t tell for certain.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 4 votes)
  106. “Maybe someone should open a NW Side of Chicago Old-style bar, bring all the local bric-a-brac along and hire a Melman designer to outfit it, and the next thing someone like westlooplo will be in there bragging about its authenticity.”

    Helmie, make a note to yourself the next time you’re in da hood not to go to Williamsburg or Bushwick, LOL.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  107. who else has posted a pic of their kitchen on cribchatter? I’m a bit nervous in all honesty, not everybody here is nice.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 6 votes)
  108. http://st.houzz.com/simgs/ff516d820d2cbd5a_8-2546/contemporary-kitchen.jpg

    This is very similar to what my kitchen looks like, except that my cabinets are walnut stained instead of what appears to be cherry; and instead of lacantina doors, I’ve got four 5′ pella windows with 1′ transoms above. My island is about 3 or 4 feet longer and 4 chairs fit over the lip on the backside and there are extra cabinets where the head chair of the island is. No pendants either. But the built in fridge, stove in between two sets of cabinets, with a hood. WE have a built in microwave on the island instaed of on the counter-top. THe hardwood floors, the canned lights, it’spretty damn close to my kitchen. and I just found this pic in dwell a few day ago, months and months after the wife and I designed our own kitchen from scratch. I guess we do have taste!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -3 (from 5 votes)
  109. http://www.houzz.com/projects/8705/Noe-Valley-House-I

    Only in SF can you have open doors like that! In my area even though it’s medium density urban we’d have all sorts of squirrels and wildlife running into the house, along iwht a ton of west nile virus carrying mosquitos. Imagine looking at a skunk chilling under one of the stools! hell no.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  110. “who else has posted a pic of their kitchen on cribchatter? I’m a bit nervous in all honesty, not everybody here is nice.”

    Skeptic posted photos of his whole reno upthread. No one was particularly unkind.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  111. ““Now as a retired adult in my 50?s my life has been made SO much richer than if I had been forced to reside amongst English only speaking white people.”

    Racist. anti-white racist…”

    Westloopelo is an affluent homosexual who never had and hopefully never will be able to deal with child-rearing or budgetary constraints (being from a wealthy family) who hopped around to jewish enclaves, likely in search of some sort of acceptance. Because as we both know he wouldn’t quite be cutting it in Mayberry hanging out at the Dairy Queen.

    “No hate, no exclusion and no bigotry and no, this is NOT a factor to most buyers here in the city. Everyone lives next to each other in harmony. ”

    LOL people in Manhattan don’t even know who their neighbors are. Being civic minded means knowing, not even talking to them in Manhattan. Other boroughs (aside from W Brooklyn which is now Manhattan-ified) different story.

    Can’t quite call NYC a cesspool though as it doesn’t have an area like our south side.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 7 votes)
  112. “This is very similar to what my kitchen looks like, except that my cabinets are walnut stained instead of what appears to be cherry; and instead of lacantina doors”

    Do all your cabinets align up at the top or instead do they have different heights, a la polish contractor special? I always LMAO when I see cabinets that don’t align up at their top.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  113. That Noe Valley house has the same double-bowl kitchen sink I used on my last remodel. Right after that, the trend went to single rectangle sinks you see now. I kinda like having the two bowl setup. Does anyone who had that, and now has the single rectangle sink have an opinion about which is more useful and/or functional?

    Also, I’m a huge fan of sinks built into the island. You don’t have to spend all that time prepping and cleaning facing a wall, and if you chop/prep on the island, you can slide all the garbage right into it, whereas if there isn’t a sink it’s more problematic.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 4 votes)
  114. homedelete (February 4, 2013, 7:09 pm)
    who else has posted a pic of their kitchen on cribchatter? I’m a bit nervous in all honesty, not everybody here is nice.
    Rating: -2 (from 2 votes)

    I posted pictures of my kitchen. Granted its just a 2/1condo across the street from the garden unit HD use to rent instead of the bitchin mcranch he owns in Geneva, Il now.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  115. “LOL people in Manhattan don’t even know who their neighbors are.”

    That’s true. Everyone there is a transplant, which right there takes away any authenticity to the place. Go talk to any bouncer, doorman, or bartender at the bars there. When they card people, they see IDs from every state in the country, tourists with passports, etc. Nobody is a local.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 3 votes)
  116. Cabinets align.

    Double bowl sink with faucet in the island.

    It’s just an older ranch that was updated not eastern euro contractor style.

    That’s why I keep saying it was a no brainer to buy in my suburb rather than pay through the nose to live in the city. I have comparable sq footage to any old Victorian in old Irving park and my house isn’t 100 years old. For less than $2,000 a month there were some real bargains out there.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  117. Gotta echo the comments about the suburbs making more sense for most families earning under $200K. There are a number of great commuter burbs that offer walkability, great transit, restaurants, and good schools. The door-to-door commute from Evanston, Park Ridge, Oak Park/River Forest, and La Grange is similar to coming from North Center/Lincoln Square. When you think of your day-to-day lifestyle, these communities also offer much of the same “experience” that a family could have in, say, Roscoe Village or Lincoln Square.

    Of course, Beverly and its great Catholic schools is also a viable option, but its restaurant/shopping scene is lacking compared to most of the aforementioned communities. However, you’re only a 25-minute drive from downtown.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 5 votes)
  118. ” Imagine looking at a skunk chilling under one of the stools!”

    Huuuuge skunks in NorCal. May be close enough to Sutro to get some wildlife (non-rat category) action.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  119. “Gotta echo the comments about the suburbs making more sense for most families earning under $200K. There are a number of great commuter burbs that offer walkability, great transit, restaurants, and good schools. The door-to-door commute from Evanston, Park Ridge, Oak Park/River Forest, and La Grange is similar to coming from North Center/Lincoln Square. When you think of your day-to-day lifestyle, these communities also offer much of the same “experience” that a family could have in, say, Roscoe Village or Lincoln Square.”

    How many families do earn over $200K in the Chicago area? 5%? And of that proportion of the income spectrum, how many actually are under the age of 35? And to really be able to buy a SFH in the city in a prime area, you need to be comfortably in the $300K+ range. With taxes going up for that bracket of people, it could put some pressure on higher priced homes, especially for people that don’t have significant down payments.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 5 votes)
  120. “How many families do earn over $200K in the Chicago area? 5%? And of that proportion of the income spectrum, how many actually are under the age of 35? And to really be able to buy a SFH in the city in a prime area, you need to be comfortably in the $300K+ range. With taxes going up for that bracket of people, it could put some pressure on higher priced homes, especially for people that don’t have significant down payments.”

    Agreed. I think this holds true for the city and the suburbs. The millennials are burdened with debt and bleak job prospects. There won’t be enough demand for the $400K+ homes as boomers continue to retire.

    Right now there is a huge premium to live in the city as a family (housing prices + private school tuition). If housing prices came down enough where the cost of living was more comparable to the inner suburbs, then the city could make more sense for those with jobs in the Loop.

    However, school will always be an issue. It’s easy to say that you can just move when high school starts, but who wants to uproot their kid like that? With interest rates as low as they are, doesn’t it make more sense to find a 15-20 year home that will get all of the kids through high school? For families that want that type of stability, the commuter suburbs beat the city.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 3 votes)
  121. “There won’t be enough demand for the $400K+ homes …
    doesn’t it make more sense to find a 15-20 year home that will get all of the kids through high school?”

    Certainly, if one is looking at homes under $400k, with kids, it’s tough to choose the city. But then, I think it’s tough to choose ‘Evanston, Park Ridge, Oak Park/River Forest, and La Grange’, which is why there is demand for housing in that price range in further out locations, too.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  122. There’s a lot of households in the city making $200,000 and they drive up the cost of housing. Talking to a lawyer just yesterday who let it slip that his household is well in the $300’s and in his early 30’s. No prob to carry a large mortgage at that income. And then they have kids and buy a million plus home in lakeview; roscoe, bucktown, lp etc.

    It’s entirely possible to do any one of Evanston, Park Ridge, Oak Park/River Forest, and La Grange’, under $400k but you’ll need to make some sacrifices. Sure, you can get it all – and more – in St. Charles west of Randall road for $350,000 but for the rest of us, it’s about finding the middle ground between having it all. Plenty of $300’s in park ridge, but expect an older kitchen/bathroom. Update over time.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 3 votes)
  123. further out location: $499K ask, minutes to Metra station!

    LOCATION IS EVERYTHING * ~SPECTACULAR home w/ AMAZING GOLF COURSE VIEWS!~Over 4200 SQ FT of living space w/ the FIN BSMT

    http://www.redfin.com/IL/Aurora/1277-Arborside-Dr-60502/home/18081682

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 3 votes)
  124. ” If housing prices came down enough where the cost of living was more comparable to the inner suburbs, then the city could make more sense for those with jobs in the Loop. ”

    Again, limited space, high density, SFH are at a premium, especially since most of the worker’s cottages were torn down and replaced with three-flat condos or luxury SFH. The rich did exceedingly well this bust and their housing is reflective of the wealth. You pretty much have to go to the burbs if you want a SFH or something larger than a 1,500 sq foot 2/2 in the $400k price range. The system is set up this way. Naive people like VJ call suburbanites lemmings, not recogniziing that $700k for a shack in roscoe village is out of my budgetary constraints. The city is what it is. It’s changed, a lot, and it’s a very upmarket place, so is NYC, SF, and other core urban areas. To dismiss people who live in the burbs as lemmings fails to recognize this fundamental fact about city living in the 21st century.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 3 votes)
  125. “Certainly, if one is looking at homes under $400k, with kids, it’s tough to choose the city. But then, I think it’s tough to choose ‘Evanston, Park Ridge, Oak Park/River Forest, and La Grange’, which is why there is demand for housing in that price range in further out locations, too.”

    No question. Those suburbs are certainly more comfortable for families earning north of $150K. When looking at sub $400k homes, it gets harder to keep the commute under 45 minutes. However, there are some decent options in the “second-ring” suburbs.

    Also, there are screaming deals in Homewood and Flossmoor. Brookfield, especially the “Hollywood” neighborhood by the zoo, is another great value.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  126. Aurora, ergh. St. Charles or naperville maybe. sort of reminds me of those fancy subdivisions with homes like this in South Elgin for 75% of the price of the bativia homes just minutes to the south. All around a bad idea a nice home in a crappy town is still in a crappy town.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 1 vote)
  127. that’s in Aurora, but it’s basically west Naperville, use Rt. 59 Metra stop and catch those express trains. Eat at the same Chicago restaurants, in DT Naperville, which is actually quite nice. Compare that place to the dumps we’ve been seeing in Park Ridge.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 3 votes)
  128. “All around a bad idea a nice home in a crappy town is still in a crappy town.”

    Isn’t the whole discussion premised on escaping the bad school district, too? Since OPRF is not really satisfactory around here, and ETHS is ‘scary’, how is Waubonsie okay? And anything below that (eg, Elgin) is straight out, right?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 3 votes)
  129. the aurora house is awful. I despise subdivisions. it’s hideous. it’s nearly 4000 sq feet with the basement. it has carpeting and cheap tile. the kitchen looks cheap. living off route 59 is miserable and congested. everything is subdivisions. you can’t walk anywhere. this house is everything that’s wrong about the exurbs. watch the prices drop in years to come.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 3 votes)
  130. at least the aurora house is east of 31! that helps right?!?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  131. “There’s a lot of households in the city making $200,000 and they drive up the cost of housing. Talking to a lawyer just yesterday who let it slip that his household is well in the $300?s and in his early 30?s. No prob to carry a large mortgage at that income. And then they have kids and buy a million plus home in lakeview; roscoe, bucktown, lp etc.
    It’s entirely possible to do any one of Evanston, Park Ridge, Oak Park/River Forest, and La Grange’, under $400k but you’ll need to make some sacrifices.”

    The options in Park Ridge under $400K are not pretty. You are either close to the highway, or have less than 1500 square feet, less than 2 full baths, or are close to Bell Plaine Ave and all the airplane noise. To get anything decent and close to any of the 3 metra stations, you need to spend $500K+, including reno costs.

    There aren’t that many households in Chicago area making $200K+ under 35. It’s just not many. And if a spouse works part-time or stays home, it’s that much harder to get to that threshold. $300K+ is even fewer.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  132. “Certainly, if one is looking at homes under $400k, with kids, it’s tough to choose the city.”

    And if you want to be relatively close in. Far nw side etc. you could otherwise to at $400 pretty easy.

    You’d also either have to have already gotten your kid into a school, or be willing to put up w uncertainty and prob be willing and have income to go catholic at least for a year or two. There are people around us at that price range who have decided tradeoffs are worth it, but they’re prob a minority.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  133. “Eat at the same Chicago restaurants, in DT Naperville, which is actually quite nice. ”

    Helmie, I thought you posted the Aurora house in irony and derision about the “location is everything” listing notes. You actually like it? I didn’t picture you as a suburban type.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 1 vote)
  134. “the aurora house is awful.”

    Hey, I’m not buying the house, but it looks like a comfortable-as-hell family house with plenty of places for kids to run, walk, ride bikes and breath fresh air. Where exactly do you walk in Park Ridge anyway? Nobody carries 30+ lbs. of grocery bags, milk, OJ and cans of diet pop…they drive. At least in Park Ridge you have less of a reason to get a DUI vs. Naperville/Aurora. Kids should be brought up knowing how to golf anyway. If you don’t start them at an early age, they’ll never really pick up the true essence of how to handle themselves on the course. Same with skiing. People who pick up these sports later on in life, are easy to spot, because of their unease and self-doubt with the unspoken rituals that come with the sports.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 5 votes)
  135. Milkster: Aurora has plenty of authentic taquerias, so you don’t need to be in Chicago anymore to eat tacos.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 3 votes)
  136. The Route 59 corridor is a perfect example of the boom-era excess. It still boggles my mind that the towns of Auroa, Naperville, Bolingbrook, Plainfield, and Joliet essentially merged into one massive exurba-plex mess of traffic and vinyl-sided McMansions. I remember the time of the Plainfield tornado, back when Plainfield was a small farm town and Naperville was the up and coming community of the western suburbs.

    Although they’re not my personal cup of tea, in defense of the far west suburbs, there are a number of jobs and office parks out that way. So, for people that work in the area and don’t have to commute into the Loop, then it makes more sense to live out there (although I’d pick St. Charles or Geneva 100% of the time over anything in Aurora).

    Plus, who knows, if the Google self-driving cars become commonplace in the future and we’re all being chauffeured around, then maybe that area won’t seem so bad. :-)

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 3 votes)
  137. Oooooh – speaking of tacos, have you been to El Milagro in Little Village across the street from the jail:
    http://www.yelp.com/biz/el-milagro-tortilleria-chicago
    This is my new favorite place for food and people-watching.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 4 votes)
  138. lots of folks around that scene need some miracles.

    If someone was to give you the Aurora house for free, or something like this, which one would you choose?

    http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1733-Linden-Ave_Park-Ridge_IL_60068_M75119-52095

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 3 votes)
  139. I always buy the El Milagro tortillas at Jewel, can’t beat the nutritional factor and that they are like $0.33 for a 12 pack of the best naturally made corn torillas

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  140. “I always buy the El Milagro tortillas at Jewel”

    I get whatev is at the under the train station grocery store at california blue line. Generally still warm. I don’t understand the differences between different packaging from the same company–seems like there might be 3 types from same place. Seem the same but have not done side by side.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  141. Love El Milagro. Their tortilla chips are also great. I like to rotate between those, El Ranchero green/red bag and Donkey chips.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  142. donkey chips are too salty.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 5 votes)
  143. Danny, I would definitely choose 1733 S Linden in Park Ridge over the Aurora house.
    You can walk to the Cumberland stop on the Blue Line which gets you to O’Hare and everywhere else in the city 24/7.
    There is also a Dominick’s right by the el.
    I like being able to walk and having public transportation around the clock.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 1 vote)
  144. Bob said “Westloopelo is an affluent homosexual who never had and hopefully never will be able to deal with child-rearing or budgetary constraints (being from a wealthy family) who hopped around to jewish enclaves, likely in search of some sort of acceptance. Because as we both know he wouldn’t quite be cutting it in Mayberry hanging out at the Dairy Queen…..
    Can’t quite call NYC a cesspool though as it doesn’t have an area like our south side.”
    Bob, I view you as someone less than affluent & completely unsuccessful to date at convincing partnership quality women to partner with you, someone who never had to deal with child rearing… and someone who hops around the midwest apparently unsuccessfully in search of some sort of acceptance too. I wonder what quality you think you possess that gives you such an undeserved belief in your superiority over others? Clearly character or intelligence aren’t leading candidates given your bigoted view of the world. But hey I bet they’ll tolerate you when you go back to working at the DQ in the Mayberry you ran from to come here.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +7 (from 13 votes)
  145. I’d also choose the Park Ridge house for the same reasons. Taxes are much lower, too.

    If you work in the Loop or northern suburbs, then the Park Ridge house should be a no-brainer. If you work in Oak Brook or the Naperville/Lisle area, then the Aurora house might make more sense.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 3 votes)
  146. Mmmmmm…daydreaming now about doing time at Cook County and getting’ some El Milagro delivered to my cell :)

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 1 vote)
  147. The park ridge house is pretty cool; and the size is manageable. The location is good. It’s priced very rich, they need to knock $100,000 off the price, I’d rather live there then aurora any day of the week. SUre it’s just a split level but that’s so much more manageable and that’s the trend these days anyways. To get a smaller but nicer house; keeps the utilities/taxes/maintenance cheaper over the long haul. Sure park ridge has some pretty big homes but the smaller ones sell pretty darn quickly too.

    http://www.redfin.com/IL/Park-Ridge/1300-S-Crescent-Ave-60068/home/13564202

    $430,000 for a 1,500 sq foot (2,100 includes the basement!) rehabbed 1966’s split level with $9,000 in taxes. Say what you want about park ridge or whatever but plenty of people love it here and will pay through the nose for it. Because you get what you pay for. (ahem, Aurora).,

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  148. Donkey chips are too salty indeed, I do the ‘Garden of Eatin’ chips, or the Frontera ‘authentic’ ones… they’re ok

    I haven’t seen el milagro toritalla chips, I will have to keep my eye out for them

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  149. Also, I am not a fan of split levels, they make me sad

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 3 votes)
  150. Sonies, one of the El Milagro factories is attached to the Little Village restaurant.
    You can buy them there.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  151. “Sonies, one of the El Milagro factories is attached to the Little Village restaurant. You can buy them there.”
    You can buy them at Whole Foods and Peapod, too.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  152. A show of hands please….

    …How many of you here were raised in the city?

    HD has a point that if your not pulling down buukuu bucks then city family life is really only beneficial for the parents.

    I grew up lower middle class (if not almost middle class considering the time then) in the city, i do not wish that on my kid in todays time.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 3 votes)
  153. Yes – you all know I was raised in the city. And it was in the GZ. But since I live on the NS now I realize I’ve lost credibility with many on CC. I can live with that.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  154. “I grew up lower middle class (if not almost middle class considering the time then) in the city, i do not wish that on my kid in todays time.”

    So, where would you wish a lower middle class lifestyle upon your kids?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  155. “So, where would you wish a lower middle class lifestyle upon your kids?”

    out by HD

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  156. “out by HD”

    Dammit. That was going to be my post. Where are those photos, HD? We’re just all upset you backed out.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  157. I dunno Groove, I know plenty of parents who are in the boat mine were, and following a divorce they went from a solid middle-class life to one where one or both of the new “family units” were stretched thin.

    I think these families are as well off in Chicago as they would be anywhere, especially when you consider the time factor that comes with mom and dad having to shuttle kids back and forth. Mine ended up living a few blocks away from each other, but I have friends who have to go to Mr. Prospect or Des Plaines or god only knows where to see their kids, or v.v.

    True, the downside is that as a latchkey kid there is a lot of mischief you can get into – but if the internets aren’t lying to me, this is at least as big a problem in the burbs these days.

    Given that the divorce rate has stayed pretty high I can’t imagine things have changed that much, and at least in the City you weren’t considered odd, our bar is set much, much lower. I could definitely see enjoying lower middle-class life in the City as a teen in 2013, yeah, your housing might suck, but odds are good you could get a part time job for pocket cash and you certainly have the City at your disposal in terms of public trans or just hopping on a bike.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 5 votes)
  158. “So, where would you wish a lower middle class lifestyle upon your kids?”

    i should ask what is your definition of lower middle class before i responded?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  159. “I think these families are as well off in Chicago as they would be anywhere”

    you dont feel these folk are getting shortchanged in city *family living?

    not saying one couldnt figure out a nitch that could work. I just dont think its as simple as when we grew up.

    i am not talking about housing i am saying the all around everything you do. I mean its like a mad scramble just to get my kid into park sports/classes (and i have pull at some parks).

    but thats just the parents hoops, i can imagine the hoops a 8 year old has to deal with in a lower middle family in chicago.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  160. “i should ask what is your definition of lower middle class before i responded?”

    Yeah, bc *real* LMC ‘out by HD’ involves renting next door to the guys who sell drugs to the kids from New Trier. And *still* making other lifestyle compromises.

    Or, maybe, something like this:

    http://www.trulia.com/rental/3097901279-911-N-Northwest-Hwy-2-Park-Ridge-IL-60068

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  161. “The park ridge house is pretty cool”

    You think 1733 Linden is “cool”?
    LOL!!!

    The donkey chips bag as a comments/1-800 number on it, I figured I’d give them some feedback since they’re a local company, and I like their chips. They told me they’d send me some free bags but they never followed up.

    I wonder what quality you think you possess that gives you such an undeserved belief in your superiority over others? Clearly character or intelligence aren’t leading candidates given your bigoted view of the world. But hey I bet they’ll tolerate you when you go back to working at the DQ in the Mayberry you ran from to come here.

    Southbound, you have some serious issues. Aren’t you supposed to be a grown man or something? Stop your whining and get over your frat-drop-out hang up. Your daughters could do a helluva lot worse than Bob, let me tell you….and with such a wimp as a dad, they’ll probably get it.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 7 votes)
  162. shoot thats not a bad price for 3br I need to email the link to a friend asap!!!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  163. “what is your definition of lower middle class ”

    There are a range of definitions from economists, sociologists, etc., and for practical purposes, in specific areas like, say, Manhattan, “middle” and “upper middle” tend to be defined differently. That said, generally speaking, I’d define LMC in terms of education level/income/lifestyle/educational expectations: it’s unlikely that either of the parents holds a BA/BS and, even if one does, he or she is not working in a career for which that or any 4 year degree is necessary; household gross income is below $50k, and likely in the $30k’s; the kids’ healthcare is often covered by the state, and the parents often have no coverage; the family has never flown anywhere for a vacation and, if the children have ever flown at all, it’s been to see family and the airfare was likley covered at least in part by those family members (grandparents); whether it’s because the parents are working, or simply aren’t home, or are home but don’t care or know any better, the children (basically from birth on) are constantly exposed to (commercial) television (it is on pretty much all of the time and during all meals; it’s sometimes at least children’s programming, but certainly not all of the time, etc.); whether it’s because there’s zero extra money, or because parents don’t know or care to know about inexpensive and even free opportunties, kids aren’t involved in much of anything extracurricular, certainly not at the preschool/early development level; and there isn’t a serious “you can and you will attend and gradudate” attitude in the household regarding the kids’ college prospects. I know it well.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 5 votes)
  164. “[blah blah blah] household gross income is below $50k, and likely in the $30k’s; [blah blah blah]”

    Did you leave any (enough) room for the working class?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  165. “[anonny's definition of lower middle class]”

    I think that’s pretty fair, tho I don’t think the child-rearing aspects (esp TV and extracurriculars, etc) are *necessary* as part of the definition. Also, those pieces are not sufficient, in the absence of HHI in the approximate range.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 1 vote)
  166. “Did you leave any (enough) room for the working class?”

    Isn’t “lower middle class” just the uppity version of “working class”, in this post-industrial era?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +4 (from 4 votes)
  167. “Isn’t “lower middle class” just the uppity version of “working class”, in this post-industrial era?”

    Since nonny “I know it well” is describing his childhood, writ in current day chicago, I suppose so.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  168. “the children (basically from birth on) are constantly exposed to (commercial) television (it is on pretty much all of the time and during all meals; it’s sometimes at least children’s programming, but certainly not all of the time, etc.)”

    Son really likes “this old house”. It’s (allegedly) non-commercial, which is plus, but not kid programming, which is minus. Is that okay?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  169. “Son really likes “this old house””

    Really? Over “ask this old house”?

    Many ‘commercial’ non-kids shows better than some ‘non-commerical’ kids shows.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  170. “Really? Over “ask this old house”?”

    Likes both, I should prob ask him but I think bit of tossup. ATOH is more uniformly interesting to him (incl the “what is it” segment which I despise), but sometimes TOH has bigger scale activity, which he likes.

    “Many ‘commercial’ non-kids shows better than some ‘non-commerical’ kids shows.”

    He also likes property brothers on tlc or hgtv or something. Unfortunatley has taken to adding “eh” to his speech.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 4 votes)
  171. Helmut/DeanOlds said “Southbound you have some issues…Stop your whining…”
    Lol hearing this from the nearly issue free Melvin Udall of cribchatter. Helmut your bitter rantings embody Udall’s line “What makes it so tough is not that you have it so bad but that you’re pissed that so many others have it good.” Udall too was told as Sabrina tries to tell you “… Try not to ruin everything by being you”. But you can’t help yourself – you are who you are, a hate filled insignificant little loser.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +6 (from 10 votes)
  172. “What makes it so tough is not that you have it so bad but that you’re pissed that so many others have it good.”

    That’s your interpretation. I am jealous of nobody, and am perfectly fine as an individual on all levels. I worry about society, my city, and some of the sick individuals in it however. You are one of them, sorry.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -3 (from 7 votes)
  173. ” I could definitely see enjoying lower middle-class life in the City as a teen in 2013, yeah, your housing might suck, but odds are good you could get a part time job for pocket cash and you certainly have the City at your disposal in terms of public trans or just hopping on a bike.”

    Yeah but this comes with a trade-off. After experiencing the life of the city at such a young age could you ever “suffer” 4 years at some leafy state flagship school like UI-Champagne? Once experienced, city distractions are hard to forget in youth.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 4 votes)
  174. The thug culture is pervasive in the city schools except for maybe a handful of college preps.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 8 votes)
  175. The problem is the Fed and the federal government have done everything they can to cushion the housing deflation. But this just meant more good money was thrown after bad. Now interest rates are creeping up, albeit ever so slightly.

    The 10yr is the canary in the coal mine: if that keeps rising the mortgage refi sector is gonna get whacked hard.

    Also look for more policy squabbles: you have a President leaning hard left and a duly elected right leaning house. No guarantees that mortgage debt forgiveness OR FHA loan limits won’t get whacked in the next couple of years in a partisan bicker. I certainly hope so.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  176. “I mean its like a mad scramble just to get my kid into park sports/classes (and i have pull at some parks).”

    I know someone who moved out of Chicago not because of the schools but because they couldn’t get their kids in ANY of the Park District programs they wanted even while trying to get them right when the system went live. It’s just SO HARD to make everything work in the city.

    VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 3 votes)
  177. http://www.longgroveparkdistrict.com/

    Long Grove has a great park district. I ? it here.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 3 votes)
  178. “I know someone who moved out of Chicago not because of the schools but because they couldn’t get their kids in ANY of the Park District programs they wanted even while trying to get them right when the system went live. It’s just SO HARD to make everything work in the city.”

    We haven’t had issues signing up. We do go online right away, and the spots are gone in a few minutes. Maybe we’re not going for the highest demand programs. It is a bit of a pain. Less of a pain than trying to get tickets to Next.

    There are also plenty of kid activities from private companies. Significantly higher price than cpd obviously, though I don’t think prohibitively high for e.g. someone buying the subject property.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 4 votes)
  179. “We haven’t had issues signing up. We do go online right away, and the spots are gone in a few minutes. Maybe we’re not going for the highest demand programs. It is a bit of a pain. Less of a pain than trying to get tickets to Next.”

    This is our experience as well. There is no way someone moved to the suburbs over this alone. There were other factors in the decision almost certainly.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 6 votes)
  180. “We haven’t had issues signing up.”

    Swim lessons are a nightmare. People line up at like 3 am.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  181. Just looked up Agassiz, it really has turned around.

    Non low income students (53% of student population)
    97% meet and exceed state standards
    54% exceed

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 7 votes)
  182. “Non low income students (53% of student population)”

    Just think, do you really want your children attending a school where nearly half are low income? Maybe I’m a snob, and I”m not from a high income area by any stretch of the imagination, but even my elementary school at the time wasn’t half low-income. I like my kid’s school where less than 5% are low income.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -5 (from 13 votes)
  183. “Just think, do you really want your children attending a school where nearly half are low income? ”

    All of the CPS ‘low income’ stats are inflated. They are based on free/reduced lunch participation, which is unverified, and rife with fraud ( http://www.bettergov.org/widespread_fraud_in_chicago_school_lunch_program/ ). The ‘low income’ number district wide is 87%; based on census data, the expected number is more like 67%.

    Yea, still not good enough for you, HD. But not as ‘bad’ as CPS wants it to appear.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 3 votes)
  184. I don’t want my kid attending a school full of stuck up helicopter parented kids either like that poor 2nd grade kid in Colorado who got suspended for throwing an imaginary grenade

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/2nd-grader-suspended-over-imaginary-grenade-224740937.html

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 4 votes)
  185. The CPS schools actively tell you to respond low income, they get more funding that way.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  186. “Isn’t “lower middle class” just the uppity version of “working class”, in this post-industrial era?”

    thats where is was going, everyone’s definition of lower middle class is different.

    My Def of lower middle is…. 60-90k HHI, parents hs degrees maybe some college/trade school or a useless degree.
    working class is…. the $50k down to just above poverty

    *and really what the heck was the rant about the TV and child rearing? that can be in any class status!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  187. ““Son really likes “this old house””
    Really? Over “ask this old house”?”

    does it matter which, as long as there is a saw or a hammer making noise even 7 year olds will be glued to the show. my son loves both but hates the segment “what is it”

    i missed last seasons show but watched the beach house one from start to finish. and the timber frame one with the black kitchen start to finish

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  188. “I know someone who moved out of Chicago not because of the schools but because they couldn’t get their kids in ANY of the Park District programs they wanted even while trying to get them right when the system went live. It’s just SO HARD to make everything work in the city.”

    We take my kid all the way to the north side for a program that is right in our area but gets filled in seconds online. and this is coming from some one who has a bit of pull with the parks. It is one of the very high demand though and we dont have a hard time getting a spot in the one off programs.

    and that my complaint is, yes you have everything you need and more in the city and things you dont get anywhere else. but its so much extra work and hoops to jump and hassle to get a quality product. it almost takes a full time employee (i.e. nanny) to help two working parents. or a stay at home parent. both of which are not available to the lower middle class.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  189. “Swim lessons are a nightmare. People line up at like 3 am.”

    yep couldnt get a swim class close had to pay insane $$$ for a private class in the burbs.

    was number two on the waiting list at norwood park (they use taft hs pool) and number 3 at shabona park never got a spot at either

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  190. “My Def of lower middle is…. … 90k HHI”

    Your definition of lower middle includes HHI of over the 50%-ile *in a high HHI metro*? With no other limitation than educational attainment? Sheesh!

    I don’t really think *total* income is necessary/sufficient, but ‘base’ income is a relevant test; that is, if the family income is $90k this year, bc both worked a bunch of OT, or got sales bonuses or whatever, but their ‘normal’ total income is more like $50k, then LMC, probably.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  191. http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/15254794-418/household-income-in-chicago-nearly-7000-less-than-national-average.html

    “The median household income of Chicagoans was $43,628 in 2011 — nearly $7,000 less than the national figure of $50,502 according to new Census Bureau estimates released Thursday. ”

    Chicago median household income is middle class: $43,628.
    BTW that’s for a full year. Not just a quarter.

    Park Ridge is :$85,917
    Naperville is approximately $110,000. That’s upper middle class.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  192. “Chicago median household income is middle class: $43,628.”

    Middle class for a HH of 1, sure. LMC for a family of 4 or more.

    I was screwing up the HH v Family income distinction. Median *family* income in the Metro (2011) is $69,607. 13.2% above natl median. And, NO WAY (groove) is 30% above median family income LMC. At *least* solidly ‘middle class’ (provided not based on $40k of overtime pay, as noted) and I’d listen (but disagree with) argument that it’s upper middle. $110 is definite upper middle, in *any* metro area (but obv not in Manhattan, taken individually).

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  193. Groove, I thought you were in Oak Park. Was it just looking at open houses or am I dreaming?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  194. MIddle class no longer doesn’t mean new cars, or trips to disneyland, or even a hen in every pot. 30 years of wage stagnation and price inflation killed that dream.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  195. “MIddle class no longer doesn’t mean …”

    huh?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 3 votes)
  196. “Your definition of lower middle includes HHI of over the 50%-ile *in a high HHI metro*? With no other limitation than educational attainment?”

    njot saying my definition is correct, but i factor in the $60k up to $90k because i am counting nurses as sometimes they can put in mucho OT.

    “And, NO WAY (groove) is 30% above median family income LMC”

    but can we all agree a HHI of $70k-80k to live in chicago there is no way one can call that middle class? and in now way provides what the middle class had and had available 20-30 years ago

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  197. “Groove, I thought you were in Oak Park. Was it just looking at open houses or am I dreaming?”

    i live in chicago over by Riis park which is close to Oak park. did shop Oak park and River forest for some fixer upper bargins, thats maybe what your thinking of.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  198. “but can we all agree a HHI of $70k-80k to live in chicago there is no way one can call that middle class? ”

    That’s solidly middle class. You must have no idea how the other half lives. It’s awful, and worse, extraordinarily expense. It’s so expensive to be poor, which is awful, because they have so little money to begin with.

    Yet it’s still better than most other places where human beings live on this earth. At least for now.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 3 votes)
  199. The poor in Chicago live better than 99% of the rest of the world, hd, they have a long way to fall from grace… I mean the obesity rates among poor people is absurd, you think they’re THAT poor?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 3 votes)
  200. “The poor in Chicago live better than 99% of the rest of the world, hd, they have a long way to fall from grace… I mean the obesity rates among poor people is absurd, you think they’re THAT poor?”

    sonies have seen what you can get off the dollar menu, yes obesity and *poor is a good correlation but not the correct outcome you are trying to reference

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  201. “That’s solidly middle class. You must have no idea how the other half lives. It’s awful, and worse, extraordinarily expense”

    no way that can be middle class!

    it just doesnt seem right, a family of 4 in chicago making HHI $70k is not and should not be considered middle class.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  202. “a family of 4 in chicago making HHI $70k is not and should not be considered middle class.”

    So, something like 60% of the metro is LMC or worse? Not buying it. Takes the heart out of the middle class.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  203. “So, something like 60% of the metro is LMC or worse? Not buying it. Takes the heart out of the middle class.”

    some doesnt seem to fit. not saying i am right and your wrong. i could be my imagination (definition) of what middle and lower middle class is.

    yes a family can live well with $70k in chicago. but its not what i think is an appropriate amount to live a “middle class lifestyle”.

    yes if $70k family of 4 living in bemlont-craigin, little villiage, or out by midway can do very well for themselves.

    maybe my standards of living or perception is on an anonny type level and i really dont have a grasp of reality.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  204. what im sayin groove is that poor people in this country are fat… poor people in africa don’t have money for food and die of hunger constantly…

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  205. “poor people in africa don’t have money for food and die of hunger constantly”

    But see:

    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/africa/south-africa/121119/african-health-obesity-malnutrition

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  206. ““People strive to overeat so they’re not labeled as poor,” she explained.”

    oh it all makes sense now…

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  207. “maybe my standards of living or perception is on an anonny type level and i really dont have a grasp of reality.”

    Bingo! This was also todd henderson’s issue.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  208. “I’d listen (but disagree with) argument that it’s upper middle”

    Me, I’d take middle class to be, oh, in the middle. Throw an range around it, maybe 40-60. Indeed, why not quintiles: poor, lower middle, middle, upper middle, and wealthy (with a subcat for uber wealthy if we must). And yeah we can define exceptions for people w temporarily high/low income or whatev. Maybe an accomodation for prestige as well (i.e., why the hendersons would be ranked above the nonnies), but income is a pretty good basis.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 1 vote)
  209. The definition of a “middle class lifestyle” has changed significantly over time, especially with all the new technology and apple products people have today. I would say for a family of 4, middle class starts at $75k, but it all depends on your neighborhood. Back in the day, the 2 kids would have had to share a bedroom. It used to be that a middle class family had one tv, one car, kids had to share a room, and having more than one full bath would have been a luxury. Going out to eat would have been twice a month for the parents and rare for the kids. Housing costs have gotten so high in many areas after factoring in the real estate taxes along with all the technology people want, and the 2+ cars, that it feels like many people are barely making it as “middle class” but in reality are upper middle class for sure.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  210. “what im sayin groove is that poor people in this country are fat… poor people in africa don’t have money for food and die of hunger constantly…”

    different country differnt problem. trust me if the poor in africa was three blocks from a dollar menu the would be fat too!!!

    seriously at MCd’ess you can feed a family of 4 for $10 off the dollar menu. if your poor come on how is that not a fricken deal $10!!!!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  211. Here is how I would break it down for a family of 4.
    45-74 – lower middle
    75-145 – middle
    146-245 – upper middle
    246 -400 – upper
    401+ – uber upper

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  212. “Bingo! This was also todd henderson’s issue.”
    get the comparison, but a “dat on a ho nutta level”

    “Me, I’d take middle class to be, oh, in the middle. Throw an range around it, maybe 40-60″

    So next question is could YOU live in a way you would see fit as middle class with a Family of 4 HHI of $70k in the city of chicago?
    If so how would you do it and what would you think you would have sacrifice?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  213. “get the comparison, but a “dat on a ho nutta level””

    That was partly my point, that everyone has their own version of this, at differing levels. Also, you mentioned nonny and he and the hendersons are ballpark at similar income levels.

    “So next question is could YOU live in a way you would see fit as middle class with a Family of 4 HHI of $70k in the city of chicago?”

    What would that be aftertax? I don’t know about “middle class” whatev that means, but think I could live happily like that. Seriously. Would prefer more of course.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  214. “What would that be aftertax? I don’t know about “middle class” whatev that means, but think I could live happily like that. Seriously. Would prefer more of course.”

    after tax a deductions and other credits say around 49k-53k

    Also factor in with 53k take home all of the private options for kids stuff is off the table. and barring any good testing kids your local school options will be sub par, unless you move to the far NW side and even then with that salary you are no buying anything to live in unless its a bombed out fixer upper. you good with a hammer?
    second say you want to stay in the hood your at, renting will be the only option and i dont think there is anything good to rent at that income that isnt a illegal garden aptment with odd smells.
    and to buy would your really want to live in a area where guns shots are present?
    or even live in my area?

    sorry there is no way i could be happy middle class living off that in chicago.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  215. “sorry there is no way i could be happy middle class living off that in chicago.”

    I still don’t know what the “middle class living” part of the condition means. If that were my income, I’d do my best to be happy, and I’m fairly sure I could do it. I don’t know if I could do it at whatev people think middle class living levels are but so waht.

    If I go by the HUD guideline I could spend $1750 monthly on housing. My rent is not that much above that. And I know someone renting a (small and not v nice) SFH for less than that. As you note, school is an issue and I’d try to find an area w good neighborhood schools if I had to, prob not in the city, in which case I’d prob try to work around wherev I lived too, if that were feasible.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  216. “it just doesnt seem right, a family of 4 in chicago making HHI $70k is not and should not be considered middle class”
    “So, something like 60% of the metro is LMC or worse? Not buying it. Takes the heart out of the middle class.”

    Classical definition of middle class was never about the national median of income or wealth. It was about how you made your money, and the cultural esteem attached to it, and your relative security in the social order. In the 18C, the vast majority of the population was agricultural or WC, and the middle class was a relative sliver. And the MC wasn’t a unitary social or political beast, either. The idea that “we’re all middle class” is an ideological holdover from the midcentury labor/management consensus (and, in Europe, social democracy). Guess what happened to that.

    So I side with the Groove thesis, although we can all quibble about the income thresholds.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  217. ““So next question is could YOU live in a way you would see fit as middle class with a Family of 4 HHI of $70k in the city of chicago?”

    What would that be aftertax?”

    The biggest diff there, imo, is if that $70k is one worker income, or two. If two, then, yeah, tough. If one, then notawful, but–tradeoffs.

    Should add that to the equation–if two incomes needed to exceed income X, then not really in MC (or whatever); so if MC is 40-60, and two workers in family of 4 make 25 and 20, still pretty much LMC. Seems to me that that is the biggest change in what constitutes “MC”–that 50 years ago vast majority of MC families had single wage earner, and now notsomuch. LMC/working class/poor all *always* most able-bodied members tried to have paying work of one sort or another.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  218. Saw an interesting comment on another blog today: The greatest challenge of political economy going forward is how to ensure that ordinary people will be able to make a decent living lawfully. I’m not sure that exaggerates the truth by much.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 3 votes)
  219. ” if I had to, prob not in the city,”

    thats where this started, about lower middle class living comfortable in CHICAGO. and goes back to a point i said way far above, that move out by HD as city living is not affordable for folks in middle or lower middle income brackets.

    If I go by the HUD guideline I could spend $1750 monthly on housing. come on no way a family of 4 w/ a HHI of 70k is owning in a nice area for $1750 an month. Renting yes it can get you a good area.
    but again is a FHHI of 70K really going to shell that much out for rent? and why not just buy in a burb then?

    like i still say not saying it cant be done, but it wont be happy middle class and it wont be without mucho hoops and distress to get to. plus many compromises inbetween.

    and at FHHI of $70k no yearly trips to disney world or maui. it will be bumper stickers from branson and random jellystone parks.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  220. “Classical definition of middle class was never about the national median of income or wealth. It was about how you made your money, and the cultural esteem attached to it, and your relative security in the social order. …

    So I side with the Groove thesis, although we can all quibble about the income thresholds.”

    wha?!?!? Groove’s thesis is $70k ain’t MC (and certainly not higher), regardless of anything else. Tenure-track asst. professor? You’re LMC. Under the classical definition, diff story.

    This has *nothing* to do with the classical definition of MC.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  221. “So I side with the Groove thesis, although we can all quibble about the income thresholds.”

    glad somebody is on my side, I was worried that i am starting to come off as a uppity pompous arse.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  222. $1,750 a month would be a $320,000 house assuming 20% down, at a 3.5% 30 yr fixed rate and RE tax of $6,400, and insurance. You could find something like this and still live a “middle class life” of some kind. Coming up with the DP is another issue of course,

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  223. “The biggest diff there, imo, is if that $70k is one worker income, or two. If two, then, yeah, tough. If one, then notawful, but–tradeoffs.”

    my above arguments assumed a two worker family, as to limit the potential of extra income.

    “This has *nothing* to do with the classical definition of MC.”

    its more of my high standards of living and what i perceive as comfortable. Dear gosh i sound so snobby on this topic.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  224. “thats where this started, about lower middle class living comfortable in CHICAGO. and goes back to a point i said way far above, that move out by HD as city living is not affordable for folks in middle or lower middle income brackets.”

    I agree at that income you’re prob better off in a burb, but if you made me live in the city I think still fine. Buy a place in oriole park say, at $250 or however low I need to to make it affordable.

    “and at FHHI of $70k no yearly trips to disney world or maui. it will be bumper stickers from branson and random jellystone parks.”

    Yeah I know, but it’s always something. If I can afford maui, then I’ll be thinking about whether I should be staying at the grand wailea instead of the sheraton, etc, etc.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  225. “If two, then, yeah, tough. If one, then notawful, but–tradeoffs. ”

    The one v two earners is a v fair point. I do think there are always tradeoffs. I don’t think at $70K you’re having to make terrible tradeoffs that significantly degrade a reasonable quality of life.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  226. There is homeless, rural poor (SSDI income only etc), working class poor / lower middle class ($12,00 an hour to make ends meet, middle class); middle class (moderately nice life style, $40-$80k household income); UMC $80k+; and upper class is above $400 and more about unearned income and not income.

    That being said, so many people are upper middle class but squander the wealth and don’t even know it, with 2 new cars, private schools, credit cards, large mortgages and then complain they can’t make ends meet. My opinion is that if you can’t live a comfortable lifestyle on a $100k for a family of three or four, then you have a spending problem, and not an income problem. Comfortable doesn’t mean 2 new cars, or multiple vacations a year. It means some savings, not living paycheck to paycheck, going out to eat where they bring the food to you, type of place. Yet people squander it all the time.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 3 votes)
  227. “$1,750 a month would be a $320,000 house assuming 20% down, at a 3.5% 30 yr fixed rate and RE tax of $6,400, and insurance. You could find something like this and still live a “middle class life” of some kind. Coming up with the DP is another issue of course”

    that maths seem off? with tax, interest and ins it would be around $2,000

    and really a two working FHHI of $70k can really cough up $2,000 a month?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  228. “that maths seem off? with tax, interest and ins it would be around $2,000 ”

    320-64 = 256, at 3.5% for 30 = $1150/mo. + $550/mo in taxes = $1700/mo. Insurance is prob a bit more than $600/yr, but not too much.

    “really a two working FHHI of $70k can really cough up $2,000 a month?”

    Can? maybe. Should? no. Do? sometimes.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  229. “that maths seem off? with tax, interest and ins it would be around $2,000 and really a two working FHHI of $70k can really cough up $2,000 a month?”

    No, I don’t think it’s off here. The mortgage would be $256k assuming 20% down. Conservative 2% RE taxes may be high for most of the city too. I think its doable if you want it to be, Plus, it’s more doable if you have some sort of income increases annually at least at the rate of inflation or better, which brings me to another point. Many people were raised upper middle class, drop down to middle class in terms of income when they start working, but they still want to live the type of lifestyle they did growing up.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  230. ” agree at that income you’re prob better off in a burb, but if you made me live in the city I think still fine. Buy a place in oriole park say, at $250 or however low I need to to make it affordable.”

    thats my point middle class and lower middle class are better off getting more bang for the buck in the burbs. and really find me a decent home in oriole for 250k?

    i know a person can make it work in the city, but with that income they are not going to live a middle class lifestlye. and live in a *decent neighborhood.

    also in that income bracket with two family workers odds are your not working in the loop so a car is vital.
    its just not happening.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  231. “320-64 = 256, at 3.5% for 30 = $1150/mo. + $550/mo in taxes = $1700/mo. Insurance is prob a bit more than $600/yr, but not too much.”

    oops sorry my basic calc was assuming 320k was the loan price.

    and really how and the F are they going to come up with a $65k down payment?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  232. “upper class is above $400 and more about unearned income and not income.”

    IMO, ‘upper class’ is mainly about the passive income or making enough that 10 years of income = option of retiring (or checking down to semi-volunteer work) while maintaining the lifestyle you’ve become accustomed to.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  233. “thats my point middle class and lower middle class are better off getting more bang for the buck in the burbs. and really find me a decent home in oriole for 250k?”

    Burbs making more sense doesn’t mean you can’t live happily in the city if you had too (e.g. for job). Something like this in oriole. Not nice but fine and something slightly cheaper would be fine too.

    http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/7439-W-Catalpa-Ave-60656/home/13557244

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  234. Groove’s thesis is $70k ain’t MC (and certainly not higher), regardless of anything else. Tenure-track asst. professor? You’re LMC. Under the classical definition, diff story.
    “This has *nothing* to do with the classical definition of MC.”

    Again, we can quibble about thresholds. But this whole argument has everything to do with how you define middle class. A richer and more persuasive notion of middle class takes human capital as more important than your W-2. And the classical definition of middle class trumps anything else when you’re talking about the learned professions. Tenure and professional (in the literal, classical definition of the term) status make all but poor grad students and adjuncts MC — by definition.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  235. “Tenure and professional (in the literal, classical definition of the term) status make all but poor grad students and adjuncts MC — by definition.”

    That and tree-fitty still only gets you one cup of coffee. And does nothing to house, clothe and feed the other 3 people in the household.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  236. the lesson from this is all is not to squander the wealth.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  237. “glad somebody is on my side, I was worried that i am starting to come off as a uppity pompous arse.”

    Groove, uppity and pompous, NEVER! Arse, maybe. ;)

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  238. “If I can afford maui, then I’ll be thinking about whether I should be staying at the grand wailea instead of the sheraton, etc, etc.”

    What’s better? to have the house on the NS, and basically have all your income towards “the nice NS house”, or buy in Park Ridge and have more spending cash (for vacations, car, whatever)? You decide.

    I talked to a Winnetka realtor once, and she said that many of those people have “the house” there and that’s it. All their resources go towards that, as the priority.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 1 vote)
  239. “That and tree-fitty still only gets you one cup of coffee. And does nothing to house, clothe and feed the other 3 people in the household.”
    Note that we’re talking about an assistant professor making $70K, not a Teamster driving a Hostess delivery truck for $70k. These two people are in different classes. _That_ was my point. And I’ll further say that the differences in their class positions — or, to put it another way, their human and social capital — can be highly relevant to the question of where in Chicagoland should choose to live.
    And now that you brought it up, an assistant professorship absolutely does make it easier to house your family, through the low interest loans, subsidies, and access to preferred housing that many urban universities offer. It also often makes it much cheaper to give your offspring an elite education (which is the elephant in this room). And tenure, admittedly only an implied good for an assistant prof, is a form of security few others in the MC can dream of.
    Again, Groove’s original thesis (although not actually stated as a thesis): “I grew up lower middle class (if not almost middle class considering the time then) in the city, i do not wish that on my kid in todays time.” Unimpeachable, by any reasonable notion of LMC.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 3 votes)
  240. ” It’s so expensive to be poor, which is awful, because they have so little money to begin with.”
    This is so true when you are working poor and living paycheck to paycheck but making too much to receive benefits.
    You end up doing things like:
    – Buying weekly instead of monthly transit passes
    – Paying banking fees because you cannot maintain a minimum account balance
    – Paying usurious check cashing fees because you do not have a bank account
    – Paying out of pocket for healthcare because you cannot afford health insurance and do not receive it through work
    – Racking up huge medical bills for emergency care
    – Spending more on groceries because you are buying the 1 lb bag of rice for $2 as opposed to the 25 lb bag of rice for $20.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 3 votes)
  241. “and really how and the F are they going to come up with a $65k down payment?”

    They don’t. If you make $70,000 a year, saving even $500 a month would be pretty good. Maybe $1000 a month if you don’t contribute to a 401k.

    Let’s say they save $1,000 a month. That’s $12,000 a year.

    It takes, at a minimum, 5 years just to come up with the downpayment.

    VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  242. “No, I don’t think it’s off here. The mortgage would be $256k assuming 20% down. Conservative 2% RE taxes may be high for most of the city too. I think its doable if you want it to be.”

    They say the house should be 2 1/2 times your income. If you make $70k then no more than $180k for the house. That would be do-able for a family earning $70k a year. That’s what makes cities like Nashville, Charlotte and the like so affordable for the middle class. You can actually get a very nice home for $180k in those areas (at least on House Hunters.) And you can live a regular life with new cars, vacations etc. at the same time.

    VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  243. “They say the house should be 2 1/2 times your income.”

    It used to be 3x, and that was long before these manipulated and depression level all-time low interest rates. I’d bump it to 4x.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  244. ““and really how and the F are they going to come up with a $65k down payment?”
    They don’t. If you make $70,000 a year, saving even $500 a month would be pretty good. Maybe $1000 a month if you don’t contribute to a 401k.
    Let’s say they save $1,000 a month. That’s $12,000 a year.
    It takes, at a minimum, 5 years just to come up with the downpayment.”
    I think it’s a good thing to have to save that long for a down payment. That’s how it used to be and how it should be.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  245. Okay, I’m coming in this late, but I must chime in because I fit most of the demographics discussed. 1. I’m a professor, with social, but not economic capital (although my husband is an attorney) 2. who is choosing to raise 3 children in the city. And although we live in the GZ, all 5 of us live in a two bedroom town home that we purchased 10 years ago. (The kids share a room). Why do I choose this, and not move out the suburbs like HD, where I could likely get a huge house with a yard? 1. I like the diversity that HD decries (kids not-speaking English in the sandbox–horrors!) 2. I dislike the parochialism of the suburbs. (And I know this because I grew up in an affluent one) 3. As a working mother, I like being 20 minutes from my job–it makes it doable. 4. I like being close to downtown (I can walk to the Art Institute, for example, and do so often).
    The only ‘hard’ thing about living in the city with kids is the schools. And we solve that by paying for Catholic schools and bypassing the public education system altogether. It is not an unreasonable choice; people need to think about their priorities.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +4 (from 10 votes)
  246. “Groove’s original thesis … any reasonable notion of LMC.”

    Groove fleshed it out at $90k is still LMC, with only qualification a ‘useless’ college degree (say, classics or ‘English’), as opposed to a useful one. If people with college degrees, making about median income, aren’t middle class, even using an outdated, European concept of middle class, then middle class doesn’t mean anything.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  247. Housing is consumption, and your neighborhood is a positional good. Where you choose to live often says much about your wealth, but that’s by no means the whole story, as Endora reveals. She’s made tradeoffs that many on this blog would find incomprehensible; her explanation reveals a set of tastes and attitudes that are sophisticated and cosmopolitan, maybe even elite. (Not knocking you, E.) I’ll take her word that these aren’t backed up by financial capital … because up to a point they don’t have to be. Class differences are expressed and reinforced by taste, and your ability to make distinctions in the right way can get you access to productive networks without having the bankroll perceived as necessary to buy your way in.

    This ability is acquired early, and that’s why people of our ilk are so concerned about school quality and raising kids in “the city” (i.e., only certain parts of the city, not Belmont-Cragin). So, yeah, maybe a LMC family (income threshold TBD by TFO) would be doing their kids a favor by buying into the GZ idyll at any cost, but that’s not how the LMC rolls. Fuck it, move to Park Ridge and for godsake keep your brats offa HD’s lawn.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 4 votes)
  248. I live in Long Grove.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 3 votes)
  249. I love that this thread continues chugging along.

    And looky here, suck it, Avondale haters!

    http://news.yahoo.com/chicagos-hottest-neighborhoods-2013-180000748.html

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 4 votes)
  250. I’ve been saying for 2 years now that Avondale is hot. An abundance of multi-units, cheap storefronts, lower crime, easy public transit access, and a transient population of poles, hispanics and hipsters that makes it ripe for gentrification. Sandwiched between fancy old irving to the northwest and logan/bucktown/wicker to the southeast, it’s truly the only gentrified neighborhood along the NW corridor. It’ll take a few more years for it to completely develop, even WP took a decade to become what it is today; but Avondale is surely to become an extension of logan. The next change after that will be kilbourn park – but that’s a decade ahead.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  251. “it’s truly the only gentrified neighborhood along the NW corridor. ”

    NON-gentrified, sorry about that.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  252. “Burbs making more sense doesn’t mean you can’t live happily in the city if you had too (e.g. for job). Something like this in oriole. Not nice but fine and something slightly cheaper would be fine too.
    http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/7439-W-Catalpa-Ave-60656/home/13557244

    shoot, nice find!

    i personally dont like the oriole neighborhood or school, but it is a really great option and if pressed wouldnt hesitate to live there.

    but remember housing is only one expense of the perceived MC family.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  253. ” benjamon9 (February 6, 2013, 6:27 pm)
    Groove, uppity and pompous, NEVER! Arse, maybe.”

    you are now on the list

    dont ask what the list is, i shall not tell. just always remember you are now on it

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  254. “What’s better? to have the house on the NS, and basically have all your income towards “the nice NS house”, or buy in Park Ridge and have more spending cash (for vacations, car, whatever)? You decide.”

    …….well you know my answer to that question. Just take a look at where I live and the size of my house.

    i do need to point out that Highland park is cheaper than Park ridge.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  255. wow groove that could possibly be one of the ugliest houses I have ever seen on this site

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  256. “I think it’s a good thing to have to save that long for a down payment. That’s how it used to be and how it should be.”

    yes but the gubment and banks used to reward savers back in those era’s now ALL the rewards/benefits go to borrowers.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  257. “but I must chime in because I fit most of the demographics discussed. ”

    “I’m a professor, with social, but not economic capital (although my husband is an attorney)”

    and my agrument states that because of your high income you have more opportunities to benefit from living in the city that a family of 4 with both working and a HHI of 70k dont not.

    yes all of us here would rather live in the city, I would love to have my son grow up as a 5th generation chicagoan. but its looking like my income and perceived lifestlye and basic i want for my kid will not cut it in a 606xx address.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 3 votes)
  258. “but that’s by no means the whole story, as Endora reveals. She’s made tradeoffs that many on this blog would find incomprehensible; her explanation reveals a set of tastes and attitudes that are sophisticated and cosmopolitan, maybe even elite.”

    I wouldnt find it incomprehensible. as let me reveal some info about how the groove family rolls and see what strata of class you would place me?….

    …I chose to buy a small house (on a 50′ wide lot) over by Riis park (google map it) because a sub 30 minute commute to work, be quick drive times to family, and becasue it was cheap. yep my mortgage payment i just paid was $735, yep thats all so suck it.
    this low housing costs affords us 2 expensive vacations a year, 2 cheap US vacations and a place up in wisconsin for weekend getaways. 2 new cars (wifes is 4 years old now, but she still likes it) 1 old beater and one classic car i sold last year , no marital fights about money (i sleep on the couch for other reasons), a huge clothing/shoe budget (i am scared of polyester in clothing), a huge cushion where i to get laid off for 7 years straight.
    I have a undergrad degree, wife has an associates. I have a professional job as a desk jockey and wifey is a homemaker (was in the HR field before kid). Wife came from another country so had nothing to start with, my parents did have any in cash to help start me off.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +4 (from 4 votes)
  259. “i do need to point out that Highland park is cheaper than Park ridge.”

    It’s also farther away from chicago; and west highland park is just a neighborhood of really small homes that don’t really belong there. The eastern part is the wealthy part. Park ridge too has a handful of pretty wealthy parts and the poor parts (where I live) are arguably nicer than the small little cottages in teh western half of high park.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  260. HELMEAT:

    THE LINDEN HOUSE IN PARK RIDGE WENT UNDER CONTRACT IN 3 DAYS!!!!

    THE AURORA HOUSE IS STILL LANGUISHING FOR 155 DAYS NOW.

    Yes Helmet, there are miracles!

    “helmethofer (February 5, 2013, 12:25 pm)

    lots of folks around that scene need some miracles.
    If someone was to give you the Aurora house for free, or something like this, which one would you choose?
    http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1733-Linden-Ave_Park-Ridge_IL_60068_M75119-52095

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  261. “what strata of class you would place me?….”

    You’ve touched on the secret shame of the liberal elite. It classifies other people, and not entirely innocently.

    See this for more on hipsters, taste and class:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/14/books/review/Greif-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  262. “lots of folks around that scene need some miracles.”
    I thought Helly-D meant the patrons at El Milagro?
    Or the patrons at Cook County Jail?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 1 vote)
  263. endora: “The only ‘hard’ thing about living in the city with kids is the schools. And we solve that by paying for Catholic schools and bypassing the public education system altogether.”

    followed by: “1. I like the diversity that HD decries (kids not-speaking English in the sandbox–horrors!) ”

    This is contradictory. People send their kids to GZ Catholic schools to avoid diversity. Surely, you can’t possibly claim that you are a regular, concerned, traditional Catholic and that’s the true reason you are using the school, LOL. The GZ Cath schools don’t even provide much church, they’re run by liberals, dimwit liberal girl teachers coming out of college anti-Catholic brainwashing colleges, and these places have plenty of homosexuals in charge, including the parish priests that probably forgot how to do something as simple as pray the Rosary. So, admit it, you pay the private school tuition to avoid having to send your kids to CPS where the diversity actually is. People like endora, the “professor” only like controlled diversity, in doses they deem acceptable. She lives in the GZ and uses private school where the majority of the kids are white….then claims to be superior to others. I see it as hypocrisy, I decry your interpretations, and believe that HD’s values are more honest and far less hypocritical.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 10 votes)
  264. “it’s truly the only gentrified neighborhood along the NW corridor. ”

    Notice those hipster bars and restaurants across from the the Mega-Mall on milwaukee. Is that considered Avondale? Talk about diversity, two sets of people that don’t interact, don’t speak the same language, have nothing in common, no shared values…I don’t know what’s so great about a society in which people don’t communicate with each other. Over time the mega-mall will be demo’ed probably, and the Mexicans will move out.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 5 votes)
  265. 2 whole years… and what exactly was the turning point and what, pray tell, were you saying before that?

    Nobody in Avondale wants it to be “hot,” we are just sick and tired of being discussed as Logan Square’s red-haired stepchild.

    “I’ve been saying for 2 years now that Avondale is hot. “

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 2 votes)
  266. You mean the Mega Mall that is across the street *from* the actual Logan Square monument?

    Oy.

    “Notice those hipster bars and restaurants across from the the Mega-Mall on milwaukee. Is that considered Avondale?”

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 2 votes)
  267. The smart one.

    “I wouldnt find it incomprehensible. as let me reveal some info about how the groove family rolls and see what strata of class you would place me?….”

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 3 votes)
  268. “lots of folks around that scene need some miracles.”
    I thought Helly-D meant the patrons at El Milagro?
    Or the patrons at Cook County Jail?

    Yes, that’s right. The irony of that dumpy tortilla factory, near the Jail, in that crapbox hood….calling itself “Il Milagro”.

    But HD, you were right. But at least agree the Linden house isn’t “cool”?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  269. “I’ve been saying for 2 years now that Avondale is hot. An abundance of multi-units, cheap storefronts, lower crime, easy public transit access, and a transient population of poles, hispanics and hipsters”

    Is Avondale really that distinct from Logan Sq.? Shouldn’t they be combined for our purposes? pretty much like Wicker Park/Bucktown?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 4 votes)
  270. FYI,
    Rober Shiller
    http://www.businessinsider.com/robert-shiller-home-investment-a-fad-2013-2

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 4 votes)
  271. Most of the Catholic schools are quite diverse.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 5 votes)
  272. Wow. Actually, Helmoffer, I’m a practicing Catholic, who went to 12 years of Catholic school and wants her children to do so as well.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 7 votes)
  273. I stand corrected.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 5 votes)
  274. “Nobody in Avondale wants it to be “hot,” we are just sick and tired of being discussed as Logan Square’s red-haired stepchild.”

    There’s a red ginge hipster who arrives at the subway at the same time I do every morning.
    And he’s a DARK red CURLY ginge too.
    This morning he was sucking on a toothpick, wearing a backwards Green Bay Packers hat and kissing his very good-looking blonde girlfriend.
    UG-ly-imagery-toooo-ear-ly-to-take in the mor-ning – UGH!!!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 4 votes)
  275. “It’s also farther away from chicago; and west highland park is just a neighborhood of really small homes that don’t really belong there. The eastern part is the wealthy part. Park ridge too has a handful of pretty wealthy parts and the poor parts (where I live) are arguably nicer than the small little cottages in teh western half of high park.”

    umm east part of HP wealthy? i assume you mean east of GB road? well that distinction doesnt start till its close to central ave. (many affodable homes east of GB right off clavey rd)

    yes PR in theory and distance is closer, but real traffic wise i think i could beat you to the loop from lake cook rd, i will even give you the advantage of starting at the boston market on devon in PR.

    oh and how do you love being a part of a few minute interval runway? when spring and summer comes you’ll love it ;)

    and what is with the rundown homes on NW Hwy and greenwood? they gonna tear those down yet?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 1 vote)
  276. ” skeptic (February 7, 2013, 12:20 pm)
    The smart one.”

    I will have to disagree, as i am willing to sell my cats first born to get out of the hood now. but during our 10+ year run it was an acceptable hood. took a rough down swing the last three years and i aint about to be around during even more falling and getting shytier.

    So really not a *very long view of smarts

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 1 vote)
  277. Riis Park went downwards starting in the late Eighties! My buddy went to Prosser, he lives in Tri-Taylor now, no kids, but always says if had them, no chance he’d be in the city.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  278. Would you shut your stupid hole already? This is ignorant for so many reasons, but ESPECIALLY on a real estate blog!

    “Is Avondale really that distinct from Logan Sq.? Shouldn’t they be combined for our purposes? pretty much like Wicker Park/Bucktown?”

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 8 votes)
  279. “Riis Park went downwards starting in the late Eighties! ”

    everybodys tolerance of “downward” is different. I found the area perfectly acceptable when we bought and not to much different when i would head over there growing up. but yes downward since my auntie raised my cousins there in the 70’s

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  280. I was applauding your general philosophy/plan as opposed to Riis specifically, but has Riis really gone that far downhill? After 10 years you must have some equity, no?

    My grade school had their annual picnics there every June, still vividly recall the stories of how one of my black classmates got jumped by a bunch of racist punks in broad daylight on a basketball court, probably 82 or 83.

    “I will have to disagree, as i am willing to sell my cats first born to get out of the hood now. but during our 10+ year run it was an acceptable hood. took a rough down swing the last three years and i aint about to be around during even more falling and getting shytier.”

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 3 votes)
  281. the CPS schools aren’t diverse. not by a long shot. they’re mostly all black or all Hispanic. a handful of schools are mixed on thr north side but The nw, south and west sides are the exact opposite of diversity. is Clemente diverse? heck, as I’ve pointed out many time before my suburban high school in the 1990s was 25% hispanic, 10% Asian, 10 black and the rest at 55% was white and that’s more diverse than 90% of all CPS schools. you want to see diverse? Maine east less than 40% white and a mix of everything under the sun as the rest. that’s diversity and its not like schurz the old Irving park high school that is 95% Hispanic.

    ps I don’t get plane flights over my half of park ridge since the runway realignments. duh!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 5 votes)
  282. Park Ridge elementary schools are 87% white, 8% hispanic, 0.3% black, 3.1% asian and the rest mixed.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 5 votes)
  283. From earlier in the week Beaubien is:

    37.3% white
    1.5 black
    41.1 hispanic
    13.9 asian
    6.0 other

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 4 votes)
  284. park ridge isn’t going to apologize for the lack of diversity in its top notch elementary schools.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 4 votes)
  285. “park ridge isn’t going to apologize for the lack of diversity in its top notch elementary schools.”

    Park Ridge benefitted all these years from having a white buffer zone, known as the NW Side. Compared to Oak Park, which has no buffer zone to the West side, it has that advantage. Over time, as the NW side turns Hispanic, eventually you’ll have leakage into Park Ridge. I’m surprised there’s not more non-white leakage into PR coming from the north up by Oakton and multi-culti bizarroland near Golf Mill and Milwaukee Ave.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 6 votes)
  286. “I was applauding your general philosophy/plan as opposed to Riis specifically, but has Riis really gone that far downhill? After 10 years you must have some equity, no?”

    yes it has gotten rough. and even to rough for my tolerances.

    yes i have a bunch of equity (more if the world uses my value for it), but remember my competition is the 99K bombed out forclosures as my area is not a “buy a turn key” type of hood. its a buy a bombed out place and call in your whole extend family and give them hammers type of hood. so in the end what i will only part with the place for is 3x what i could sell it quick for. we’ve alwasy planed to keep it and rent it out to family even back in 2005 when we were looking to move then.

    back in the day it was easy to just ball bat a few bangers to keep them from making camp in a 4 block radius. not the same now, the old timers dont have any control of the shorties like they used to. you used be able to toss a few back with the old timers ask them a favor to keep the shyte off these certain blocks or another and they would put the order out. now the shorties are not structured and have no respect for the balance the old timers had in place.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 3 votes)
  287. “yes it has gotten rough. and even to rough for my tolerances.”

    No shit. But according to the Southbound and skeptic narrative, you have to worry about white racist teen punks! Don’t worry about drugs, gangbangers, illegal weapons, assaults, break-ins, home invasions, shootings, graffitti, robberies, sexual assaults, fatherless kids, welfare mooches….no, it’s white racists…that’s the big problem over there. Watch out! Seriously. /sarcasm

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -4 (from 10 votes)
  288. my mental image of helmut head http://i.imgur.com/bVxAqyd.jpg

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +7 (from 9 votes)
  289. helmet

    park ridge is part of the nw corridor from downtown to mchenry. it won’t be turning anytime soon. in fact the leftover areas are getting better ie Avondale jeff park etc.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  290. the nw corridor and 449,000 retro 1960’s split levels on linden price out most of the riff raff from surrounding areas.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 1 vote)
  291. helmet just says the things that most people feel but cant admit in good compnay. he doesn’t disguise his feeling with liberalism. his anti semitism goes too far though.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -8 (from 12 votes)
  292. Speak for yourself HD. I disagree with everything Hater in chief says. You have issues my dear, I now remembered that you did not want your kid to go to school with cleaning lady’s kid. And they call me the snob. I mean really what is wrong with being a cleaning lady? I prefer mine to most of you guys.
    @ olic, HH is way older and less hip than what you posted. I’d go with
    http://zodiblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/fat-shirtless-guy-eating-cheeseburger-2_3.jpg

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +4 (from 10 votes)
  293. Miu, your right , only problem with you pic is he doesn’t look gay enough. Fat in the closet gay nazi sounds about right to me.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +5 (from 11 votes)
  294. I don’t want my kid going to school with the cleaning lady’s kid because the teacher will be spending more time teaching english rather than teaching my kid math and science. That’s the difference between good schools with high test scores and bad schools with low test scores. It doesn’t make me a snob. It’s reality. I”m not ‘better’ than anyone but this is reality. If my cleaning lady’s children were all little Einsteins, then sure, my kids can join the same study group, but they’re not. It’s the same reason, miumiu, that smart people go to HARVARD rather than HARPER college. It’s the same reason people choose YALE over CHICAGO-STATE.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -6 (from 10 votes)
  295. Im glad godwin’s law is still in effect…

    So whats everyone’s favorite kind of Potato Chip? I like sea salt and vinegar for some wierd reason, the kettle ones rock!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 6 votes)
  296. I agree with helmut on some things, but on other he just seems a little too racist. He’s toned down his eugenics and DNA theories; but his anti-jew spasms still creep up every now and again. But he does have valid points about the hypocrisy of liberalism and how so many liberals live in a cognitive dissonance where they appreciate diversity and liberal thinking but yet shun it in their own lives.

    I had a very liberal neighbor a few years back who was more leveled headed about this things. He was totally liberal but hated illegal immigration. He said he couldn’t understand for the life of him why gays and alternative lifestyled individuals would ever champion for an entire culture of people to emmigrate here, who by their catholic nature, disagree with and dislike their very lifestyle choices! He said liberals should be rooting for more danes and sweedes and french to immigrate here, at lesat they have liberal views on abortion and gay marriage, unlike the catholic latin americans. Yet they’ are all under the same (D) tent and vote for Obama.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -7 (from 13 votes)
  297. I haven’t said anything offense yet I get three thumbs down? Don’t associate with me others on this site!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -7 (from 11 votes)
  298. http://www.redfin.com/IL/Kildeer/20750-W-Lexington-Ln-60047/home/17652701

    I love long grove! 10 thumbs up!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -9 (from 11 votes)
  299. “I love long grove! 10 thumbs up!”

    Don’t you mean Kildeer?

    VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +6 (from 6 votes)
  300. “So whats everyone’s favorite kind of Potato Chip? I like sea salt and vinegar for some weird reason, the kettle ones rock!”

    I love s&v too. Lays is fine.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 1 vote)
  301. “my mental image of helmut head”

    That’s ridiculous. Here is my mental image of you two: oilc and miumiu http://bit.ly/XpKSsK

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 8 votes)
  302. For anonny

    http://www.nalp.org/buying_power_index_class_of_2011

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  303. Guess who???????? https://www.google.com/search?q=gay+hitler&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=dqQUUeL_OqXDygGLw4CADg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=768&bih=928#biv=i|10;d|uurtF0KmmgSOXM:

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 4 votes)
  304. Okay, for some Friday entertainment, here’s a little place I’m going to call “House of Stains”.
    Many, many, different kinds of stains!
    http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/6037-N-Nagle-Ave-60646/home/13511963?utm_medium=email&utm_content=home_image&utm_source=myredfin&utm_campaign=listings_update

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  305. “park ridge is part of the nw corridor from downtown to mchenry. it won’t be turning anytime soon. in fact the leftover areas are getting better ie Avondale jeff park etc.”

    HD,

    sorry bro its already happening, look at your hometown of palatine more and more mexicans moving in. also look at mathewlesko’s hood Cary, i think there school is like 40% mexican now.

    just follow the history of millwaukee avenue and the trends of ethnic movement just in the time of our age group. its the poles followed by the mexicans followed by the hipster then the yuppie.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  306. “Okay, for some Friday entertainment, here’s a little place I’m going to call “House of Stains”.
    Many, many, different kinds of stains!”

    WTF a bombed out place like that on the nagle speedway should no cost 173k.

    a buddy of mine looked at a place on nagle last yearish for 200k and it had a new kitchen and new furnace and roof. baths last done in the Snow ‘Informer era but well maintained .

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  307. “HD,
    sorry bro its already happening, look at your hometown of palatine more and more mexicans moving in. also look at mathewlesko’s hood Cary, i think there school is like 40% mexican now.
    just follow the history of millwaukee avenue and the trends of ethnic movement just in the time of our age group. its the poles followed by the mexicans followed by the hipster then the yuppie.”

    Maybe my cleaning lady will move in next to HD. HD you will love the tamales she makes, there is nothing like homemade!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +4 (from 4 votes)
  308. “Maybe my cleaning lady will move in next to HD”

    WTH?????? everyone hear is talking about their nanny or cleaning lady. then thinks they have a grasp of the MC or LM class?

    if you have a cleaning lady or nanny you are neither MC or LMC!!!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 4 votes)
  309. “if you have a cleaning lady or nanny you are neither MC or LMC!!!”

    According to you $70-80k is not middle class in chicago. Family making e.g. $100k could def have a cleaning lady or nanny (which may be close to comparable to daycare cost w multiple kids and may allow the second parent to work).

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 2 votes)
  310. It’s not MY cleaning lady; it’s the office building’s cleaning lady. She just cleans my office in my suite along with all the other offices. We’re good friends, I did some pro bono work for her, but there’s no way in hell she wants her kids going to the same school as the gringos nor do I want my kids learning spanish. Latin maybe, but not spanish.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 5 votes)
  311. “It’s not MY cleaning lady”

    Do you have a cleaning lady? Need to know where to put you on the groove mc scale.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  312. “do I want my kids learning spanish. Latin maybe, but not spanish”

    Are you seriously not already teaching your kid(s) Spanish? Spanish should be a given. And a decent grasp of French, by 9th grade, is not much of a stretch. Then sure, a couple of Latin classes in high school, then a couple of semesters in college if they like (I took 3 or 4 semesters of it in college, partly to fulfill my (unfufilled in high school) language requirement, and partly to be plugged into the classics/humanities small school vibe while attending a big football-focused university).

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 4 votes)
  313. whats the big deal about having a cleaning lady, we have someone come in 4 hrs a day 3 days a week and it costs $250.00 per week.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  314. “Are you seriously not already teaching your kid(s) Spanish? Spanish should be a given.”

    I’m sure hd thinks latin and french are more high class.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +4 (from 6 votes)
  315. homedelete: He said he couldn’t understand for the life of him why gays and alternative lifestyled individuals would ever champion for an entire culture of people to emmigrate here, who by their catholic nature, disagree with and dislike their very lifestyle choices!

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/11/majority-of-latinos-support-state-recognition-of-gay-marriage/

    quote from the article:
    Hispanic voters were more likely than other voters to say they would approve if their state recognized same-sex marriage, according to preliminary exit poll results.
    Nearly six-in-ten Latino voters (59%) said their state should legally recognize same-sex marriage while 32% said their state should not. But among all voters, about half (48%) favored legalization of gay marriage while nearly the same share said they would oppose it (47%).

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +5 (from 5 votes)
  316. “the nw corridor and 449,000 retro 1960?s split levels on linden price out most of the riff raff from surrounding areas.”

    “sorry bro its already happening, look at your hometown of palatine more and more mexicans moving in. also look at mathewlesko’s hood Cary, i think there school is like 40% mexican now.”

    HD, Park Ridge is surrounded, except for the lucky buffer zone it still enjoys to the south. It’s only a matter of time before some 7-11 owner to your north in Niles, in the multi-culti bizarroland around Golf Mill, hits it big, saves some money, gets sick of living with 11 relatives from India, etc. That guy is going to be buying in Park Ridge. His sons will love Maine South, nothing says you’ve made it in America than a white girlfriend, and with all the american dads around today as brainwashed as the baby-boomer Southbound, that’s not going to be difficult.

    “Are you seriously not already teaching your kid(s) Spanish? Spanish should be a given. ”

    The main reason to learn Spanish is to be able to hear what they are saying about gringos behind your back. Every employer should learn it for that reason only. Speaking it is not a good idea, because any Latino don’t respect dipshit-uppity white liberals that speak to them in their language. They see it as a sign of weakness and stupidity, since in America the language of winners is English. The most comical scene in this regard would be the single loser white liberal walking her “dog” trying to speak Spanish to a working father Hispanic that has offspring. What must that father think of the white liberal female wasting her most healthy years….with a dog? learning the language of the immigrant, instead of bettering her own life? or having one?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 6 votes)
  317. “attending a big football-focused university”

    Why go somewhere so antithetical to your preferred vibe?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  318. ” sonies (February 7, 2013, 8:31 pm)
    Im glad godwin’s law is still in effect…”

    “homedelete (February 7, 2013, 8:36 pm)
    … He’s toned down his eugenics and DNA theories; but his anti-jew spasms still creep up every now and again.”

    Komisch!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  319. HD, who ever said Hispanics were conservative? 40% of their births are outside marriage, drug and alcohol use is higher, so are crime and prison rates. Lots of uncles knock-up their nieces. Mexico is a violent hellhole, so are cities like Tegucigalpa. See the movie Sin Nombre about MS-13. Whoever said these violent people were as nice and conservative as the Swiss? In Mexico, the Leftwing has severly curtailed the rights of religion, wasn’t there some “Viva Cristo Rey” movie out last summer that covers the anti-Christianity in Mexico? The gay agenda is more advanced in Mexico I believe than in the USA, I’m sure there’s plenty of web info on that. Univision has been pumping all kinds of brainwashing into the Latino world, its owned and run by Jews. Haim Saban, Don Francisco. Then you have the bizarre blue-eyed descendent of conquistadors, Jorge Ramos. Lots of stuff going on that the gringo doesn’t understand, none of it good. You guys who like your cleaning ladies, don’t have to deal with her 5 sons, one of which is likely to end up in prison or a gang, etc.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 4 votes)
  320. is there irony in criticizing racist dan’s hatred of diversity and then calling him gay?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +5 (from 5 votes)
  321. “The main reason to learn Spanish is to be able to hear what they are saying about gringos behind your back. Every employer should learn it for that reason only. Speaking it is not a good idea, because any Latino don’t respect dipshit-uppity white liberals that speak to them in their language. They see it as a sign of weakness and stupidity, since in America the language of winners is English. The most comical scene in this regard would be the single loser white liberal walking her “dog” trying to speak Spanish to a working father Hispanic that has offspring. What must that father think of the white liberal female wasting her most healthy years….with a dog? learning the language of the immigrant, instead of bettering her own life? or having one?”

    Helmut you narrow minded tosser. If you can’t see the advantage of knowing Spanish or another emerging market language then you truly are an idiot. One of my friends sons runs the division a fortune 500 company in latin america. Him speaking Spanish is integeral to the job. I consult in China and HK, and my language skills are key. Open you eyes man, we live in a global society now.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +5 (from 9 votes)
  322. “is there irony in criticizing racist dan’s hatred of diversity and then calling him gay?”

    my calling dan gay is not meant to be a negative comment on gays, I have many friends that are gay. I beleive that dan is in the closet, there an inner struggle going on. If he just accepted who he is he might be a happier person.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +5 (from 9 votes)
  323. I just wanted to shoutout to oilc for satisfying Goodwin’s Rule.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 3 votes)
  324. “Open you eyes man, we live in a global society now.”

    And everyone wants to speak english. everyone also knows that an overseas assignment for a fortune 500 is a dead end job. YOu can’t smooze the bosses, you’re not around for performance reviews, and you never quite assimilate to the new country and everyone knows it’s just a matter of time before you go home.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 4 votes)
  325. “But he does have valid points about the hypocrisy of liberalism and how so many liberals live in a cognitive dissonance where they appreciate diversity and liberal thinking but yet shun it in their own lives.”

    It is hypocrisy.

    OK, HD you said the above…so which group within the mosaic of our diversity is the most vocal about “appreciating diversity”, proud of its liberalism, yet simultaneously “shuns it in their own lives”? The Poles? WASProtestants? German-Americans? Who?

    Why is it a “spasm” to observe the Jews in Chicagoland this regard?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 4 votes)
  326. Do you folks have any idea how a child’s brain develops? And the effect that attempting to learn second or third languages can have on a child’s brain development and cognitive abilities?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 8 votes)
  327. I didn’t say those were MY positions about latin american immigrants. that was my NEIGHBOR’S opinions. I didn’t say I agreed with them nor did I adopt them. I was merely repeating what I believed was one of the few liberals I know with an anti-illegal immigration position.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 2 votes)
  328. “Helmut you narrow minded tosser.”

    oilc: I’m not a tosser, you’re my rub-and-tug masseuse. Miumiu is your back-up.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -4 (from 10 votes)
  329. ” And the effect that attempting to learn second or third languages can have on a child’s brain development and cognitive abilities?”

    many bi-lingual spanish children can’t speak either language fluently.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 5 votes)
  330. The people who are most adept and proficient at knowing multiple languages are the Germans. No other nationality on earth can touch them on that. When they learn Spanish, they also learn from the correct source: Spain.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 5 votes)
  331. Park ridge isn’t going anywhere. It’s has a river, a forest preserve AND a major 10 lane interstate to the west and to the south; and to the east is Edison Park where a lot of highly paid chicago professionals live due to teh residency requirement. The north of course is niles but the housing stock is smaller, smaller lots, less expensive buildings (more vinyl siding, less brick). Every community has the guy who makes some dough and moves to the nice suburb and there’s nothign wrong with that. In fact growing up I was great friends with an asian guy whose parents moved to arl. hts. and they were the only asian family in the neighborhood. Rest of the area was white (and jewish!). although he ended up being a real jerk for reasons completely unrelated to his enthnicity, he married a white girl with a phd, he has a great job too and between the two of them they make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Like probably in the $400’s. I haven’t seen him in a while but trust me when I tell you – I could care less that he married a white girl or his family moved to arl. hts. or any of that nonsense.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 3 votes)
  332. “Helmut you narrow minded tosser.”
    oilc: I’m not a tosser, you’re my rub-and-tug masseuse. Miumiu is your back-up

    In your dreams Helmut……… oh wait your gay.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 10 votes)
  333. “And everyone wants to speak english. everyone also knows that an overseas assignment for a fortune 500 is a dead end job. YOu can’t smooze the bosses, you’re not around for performance reviews, and you never quite assimilate to the new country and everyone knows it’s just a matter of time before you go home.”

    Yeah those mid six-figure dead-end jobs………… being a mid five-figure bk attorney is where its at!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 9 votes)
  334. “is there irony in criticizing racist dan’s hatred of diversity and then calling him gay?”

    Thank you CH. I agree. While olic obviously was using this as a figure of speech as Southbound was using the “p” word in similar manner, it is sad that being non-heterosextual male is associated with negative qualities. Maybe in another 20 years we will stop this. Language is a mirror a society so it will hopefully evolve eventually : )

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 6 votes)
  335. “I didn’t say those were MY positions about latin american immigrants.”

    The Democrat party is basically a tent of disparate groups united by one thing: anti-white racism.

    The Latinos are willing to disregard their historical culture and machismo, and unite with LGBTQ for one reason only: take down white America. That’s why you see outreach between “Latino-Jewish relations” etc. What do blacks and Latinos have in common that they would join together under the Obama banner? Basically, you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours….and who cares about America’s core group? Who’s selfish? Romney voters? Hardly.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 4 votes)
  336. I just heard today on BBC that every 4 minutes a woman is raped in South Africa, where HH claims to be from. I sure hope he is gay for his sake.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 6 votes)
  337. “non-heterosextual male is associated with negative qualities”

    Oh really? Is there anyone here willing to raise their hand, and say they think male homosexual sodomy is not disgusting?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -3 (from 7 votes)
  338. “I just heard today on BBC that every 4 minutes a woman is raped in South Africa”

    I hope Paul Simon, Bono, Peter Gabriel and Steven van Zandt and the rest of those idiots are proud of what they accomplished. Let’s see them go walk around Johannesburg by themselves.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 6 votes)
  339. ok, I have dropped enough grenades on CC today. Off you HK to celebrate the New Year.
    Happy New Year to all on CC, even you HH.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +5 (from 7 votes)
  340. homedelete<b?: I didn’t say those were MY positions about latin american immigrants. that was my NEIGHBOR’S opinions. I didn’t say I agreed with them nor did I adopt them.

    You used that position as an example of how your liberal neighbor was more “level-headed” than other liberals. He isn’t. He’s wrong. Hispanics and gays do not have competing interests; it’s a perfectly sensible coalition.

    helmethofer : Oh really? Is there anyone here willing to raise their hand, and say they think male homosexual sodomy is not disgusting?

    I think it’s hot.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 10 votes)
  341. “Is there anyone here willing to raise their hand, and say they think male homosexual sodomy is not disgusting?”

    Hand raised.
    BTW, reading the above sentence, I assume you are ok with the act and only take issue if it is between homosexuals? Interesting position (pun intended). I’m off too. Happy New Year!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 5 votes)
  342. “According to you $70-80k is not middle class in chicago. Family making e.g. $100k could def have a cleaning lady or nanny (which may be close to comparable to daycare cost w multiple kids and may allow the second parent to work).”

    okay she stopped readin hear long ago so i can say this…

    my cleaning lady and my nanny is my wife and she is/was an immigrant.

    so i just said 2 offensive things in one sentence. and under my own def of LMC, MC, and UMC i just got bumped all the way up to UMC!!!

    @annony,
    I agree the more languages the better but overall to think about it does it really have a decent ROI? my kid is being taught my wifes native language, i teach him spanish, and in the end when is mad he tells me that he is taking his trains and going home in english.
    At times i think the time teaching him those could be better used by having him read ONE language at a higher rate, or adding extra levels of his problem solving skills, or by having him watch commercial television

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  343. It will pay off, it just takes time. I have a few friends who never learned their parents’ languages because when they were pre-k / early elementary age, they struggled a bit with reading, etc. (common for bilingual households and typically self corrects) – every single one of them deeply regrets the lost opportunity.

    “At times i think the time teaching him those could be better used by having him read ONE language at a higher rate, or adding extra levels of his problem solving skills, or by having him watch commercial television”

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  344. “Is there anyone here willing to raise their hand, and say they think male homosexual sodomy is not disgusting?”

    sadly i was born hetrosexual so i couldnt tell you if it is or isnt.

    i could careless what one does in the bedroom with the blinds closed and the doors shut. as there are many hetro’s that do many things i find disgusting and so many levels. in the end thats them and what the do in closed doors or alleys behind dumpsters.

    but if we all think about it, we all secretly wish we were born a gay male. Take away all the hatred towards them, the discrimination they receive, and the shame the face before accepting themselves, all that out of the picture its a pretty darn awesome lifestyle that can carry until your in your 50’s.

    I love my wife to death but dang it she can yap on and on and on and on then get on the phone and yap on and on then drive to my M-I-L and yap on and on and on and on, then come back home and yap on about what she just yap on about to me.
    being married to a dude i can come home at say is the game on, he would grunt yes and turn it on and sit quietly and watch it. we would high five when our team wins then go bone and fall asleep. does it get any better than that? :)

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +8 (from 8 votes)
  345. “Is there anyone here willing to raise their hand, and say they think male homosexual sodomy is not disgusting?”

    Is the bottom wearing chaps?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +4 (from 4 votes)
  346. “I think it’s hot.”

    Liar. You think a man, inseminating the feces inside another man’s hairy butt is…..”hot”?

    You’re not telling the truth. I don’t want to into a “spasm”, but the hollywood media, via their sitcom characters and their clothes, etc. totally distort the reality of homosexuality. Didn’t HD once say he knew a few cops that hated to go on homosexual domestic disturbance calls because of the severe injuries they inflict on themselves, two grown males going at it? Maybe Southbound could give the fellas some pointers on how to duke it out.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -4 (from 10 votes)
  347. “At times i think the time teaching him those could be better used by having him read ONE language at a higher rate, or adding extra levels of his problem solving skills, or by having him watch commercial television”

    How many languages do you want him to speak fluently as an adult? That’s perhaps main issue to me. I think the studies about benefits or downsides of learning multiple languages as kid aren’t that reliable. But clear that you will speak another language more fluently if you start young and keep it up.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  348. ” its a pretty darn awesome lifestyle”

    No it’s not. It’s unnatural and weird. They know it too. That’s why there are higher levels of suicide, drug use, depression, and careless sexual activity levels which are evidenced by higher STD rates among gays. They cannot reproduce and have a normal family. Two gays who use surrogates, donated eggs, etc. trying to get around that, will ultimately fail, because the child will someday want to know who their own mother is, they were robbed from, and from where they got ONE-HALF of their ancestry and genes. It’s sick stuff going on out there, don’t let the sitcoms brainwash you into that false imagery.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -6 (from 8 votes)
  349. “It will pay off, it just takes time. I have a few friends who never learned their parents’ languages because when they were pre-k / early elementary age, they struggled a bit with reading, etc. (common for bilingual households and typically self corrects) – every single one of them deeply regrets the lost opportunity.”

    i already subconsciously have pulled back on the spanish, my MIL will only speak english to him, so its all on the wifey for her language.

    not saying there is no value in the added language or slightly added cognitive ability, just thinking what else that time could benefit and have a greater outcome with the same time. Personally i was on board with the three languages up to last year, now im am wishy washy on it.

    really the end goal is not to raise a Hhoffer and i will chalk up a win!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  350. “Chinese New Year is the longest and most important celebration in the Chinese calendar. The Chinese year 4711 begins on Feb. 10, 2013.”

    oilc: Have fun in your homeland….Thanks for assimilating so well…..but in America our New Year was on January 1, 2013.

    In this country…no ticky, no laundry, ever see this movie? LOL… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaUmJOU1ejs

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -5 (from 7 votes)
  351. “But clear that you will speak another language more fluently if you start young and keep it up.”

    the keep it up part is really the key in all of it isnt it?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  352. ” Didn’t HD once say he knew a few cops that hated to go on homosexual domestic disturbance call”

    No, it was a fellow attorney who represented victims and perps in domestic violence cases for the homosexual community. Crazy brain damage cases, broken arms, when two guys fight and are drunk or high on tina or whatever, they can really go at it and cause some damage. thats not to say that a typical male batterer doesn’t cause serious to a woman, but woman are less likely to fight back, but the male lover will almost always defend himself

    but beyond that disgusting graphic description of HH’s sodomy was too much for me, I did not want to read that, at all, it kind of wrecked my day.

    I’m over and out on this thread…back to real estate

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  353. I don’t get why Sabrina let’s all this gay talk go on and on. Pays the bills I guess.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -3 (from 5 votes)
  354. “that disgusting graphic description of HH’s sodomy was too much for me”

    it wasn’t that disgusting, it was matter-of-fact ask any medical doctor. It’s the TV shows and the gay agenda types, “fashion industry”, etc. that are giving us the false images, not me.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -3 (from 7 votes)
  355. “No it’s not. It’s unnatural and weird.”

    yes at one time people said the same thing of the theory of the earth being round

    look how thats worked out

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +6 (from 6 votes)
  356. it’s because Sabrina’s not a nazi.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 4 votes)
  357. ” Vlajos (February 8, 2013, 1:07 pm)

    I don’t get why Sabrina let’s all this gay talk go on and on. ”

    but remember we cannot talk about the paint or furniture, as those things change when the seller moves

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +8 (from 10 votes)
  358. helmet, do you find straight sodomy disgusting?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +6 (from 6 votes)
  359. Yes, of course.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 4 votes)
  360. You’re not telling the truth. I don’t want to into a “spasm”, but the hollywood media, via their sitcom characters and their clothes, etc. totally distort the reality of homosexuality.

    Sitcom characters? Clothes? I was talking about p0rn.

    Two gays who use surrogates, donated eggs, etc. trying to get around that, will ultimately fail, because the child will someday want to know who their own mother is, they were robbed from, and from where they got ONE-HALF of their ancestry and genes.

    What about straight people who use surrogates or egg/sperm donors? Are they robbing children from someone? How do you feel about adoption? Adopted children will not have the knowledge of even “ONE-HALF of their ancestry and genes”.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +4 (from 4 votes)
  361. “I don’t get why Sabrina let’s all this gay talk go on and on.”

    Equality, that’s why. No more keeping it in the closet, that’s bad and narrow-minded. It’s equal, just remember that.

    (someone needs to scroll back and figure out who the culprit was, that started this stuff)

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -3 (from 5 votes)
  362. ” helmethofer (February 8, 2013, 2:06 pm)
    (someone needs to scroll back and figure out who the culprit was, that started this stuff)”

    ….and now my day is complete. The End

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +4 (from 4 votes)
  363. “Adopted children will not have the knowledge of even “ONE-HALF of their ancestry and genes”.”

    Right. Most of them are heartbroken they don’t know, many go on quests to find out. It’s suboptimal to have orphans. So why then “normalize” this gay situation, that normalizes the unnatural, and will multiply it, based on the selfishness of two homosexuals that want “a kid” like it’s some possession or pet? It’s suboptimal to normalize this perverted behavior and then bring children into it via legal force, etc.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -3 (from 7 votes)
  364. I feel bad for this poor townhome that has to be associated with this conversation. Sabrina should just delete everything that doesn’t have to deal with it for equality sake.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 7 votes)
  365. “I feel bad for this poor townhome that has to be associated with this conversation. Sabrina should just delete everything that doesn’t have to deal with it for equality sake.”

    1. when does, after the 10th post, anything relevant to the subject property every get said?
    2. screw equality i am still trying to get answer from the gallery on their perception of LMC and MC
    3. really the realtor put “magazine quality” in the limited character space MLS fields, does it deserve better
    4. ban hhoffer simple solution, we can get back to arguing hood bondries, ELP and the ocean, where HD lives
    5. i need my visual of milkster disgust of redheads and train platform necking
    6. seriously just ban hhoffer and all his other personalities
    7. MuiMiu came back just for this thread dont take that away

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +8 (from 10 votes)
  366. I’ll agree with 1, 4, 6 and 7.

    Milkster can’t totally despise redheads….I don’t think she hates me….or maybe now she does.

    Your whole class argument is pointless. Move back to arguing neighborhood boundaries. ;)

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 3 votes)
  367. While I wish I had never seen any of HH’s postings somehow I missed Helmuthead’s assertion he is a relatively recent immigrant. Oh wait, not HH – it is beneath him to be a lowly immigrant, he is an expat! from South Afrika! Go figure. Not sure whether to believe since HH is certifiably cr-zy & exhibits many sociopathic tendencies here including repeatedly posting hatefilled spewing full of lies. But if true I love the irony of a immigrant who is rabidly anti-american lecturing oilc whose new year celebration is appropriate for Americans to celebrate! And the irony of HH’s bitter railing against immigrants as well as a — dude railing about the practices of — dudes. Well of course it is all forgivable since HH also asserts he is highly educated – imagine that. I favor cc taking up a collection to send the south afrikanner back to S Afrika where HH will truly find sympathetic ears. Hey HH did your family find itself in need of quickly ‘expating’ out of Germany in 1945 like you found yourself in need of “expating’ out of S Afrika? .

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +5 (from 9 votes)
  368. I live in killdeer for goodness sake. long grove. get it right.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 1 vote)
  369. “Milkster can’t totally despise redheads….I don’t think she hates me….or maybe now she does.”
    Gingey Benjy?!
    I love it! :)

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 1 vote)
  370. “Gingey Benjy?!
    I love it! :)”

    Even worse for HH, not only am I proudly a ginger but also gay. I liked HH’s depiction and Madeline can come watch any time!!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 5 votes)
  371. low inventory in NYC too

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/realestate/faced-with-apartment-shortage-brokers-get-creative.html

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  372. Benjy, did you get the info I sent you?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  373. “No it’s not. It’s unnatural and weird. They know it too. That’s why there are higher levels of suicide, drug use, depression, and careless sexual activity levels which are evidenced by higher STD rates among gays. They cannot reproduce and have a normal family. Two gays who use surrogates, donated eggs, etc. trying to get around that, will ultimately fail, because the child will someday want to know who their own mother is, they were robbed from, and from where they got ONE-HALF of their ancestry and genes. It’s sick stuff going on out there, don’t let the sitcoms brainwash you into that false imagery.”

    Wow, I kept seeing the comment popping up in the side bar thing and thought, “That’s a lot of convo about that boring “magazine quality,” house! Little did I know until I just checked it out! Okay, the HH guy above has to be a troll…I see some goofy kid sitting in his room getting us all whipped up over nonsense. But still I will bite (not in that way HH BE-HAVE!!) and have to stick up for me and my homo brothers and sisters and set the record straight from your nuttiness and the other more well meaning straight people here…..we are all different, just like you are different from the rest of your straight friends, I am a gay guy in my 40’s who thanks to my parents (strict conservative Catholics who despite their beliefs on homos instilled in me the strenght and self respect and respect for others that get you though life ) and God (yea, I believe in one) have managed to have a healthy, “normal,” life with a relationship with a great successful guy for over 20 years. Despite my very healthy and uh, active sexual past (and really, gay or straight werent we all sluts in our youth before we got “married” and grew up..I love some straight people who bemoan the “immorality,” of gays when they themselves were monks) played football (and was secretly banging my team mate…good times, good times) has never had an STD or prone to depression (wow would I be depressed I got a great amount of ass in my day and have the best one at home) I live in the burbs, friends with my straight neighbors, some who are liberal, some who are arch conservatives but stay out of my bedroom like I stay out of theirs, matter of fact the electrician next door is our best bud and comes and goes as he pleases like a “sitcom,” neighbor (no women around to curtail the beer drinking foolishness here) I have a great job, love the Sox (the things I would do to Paulie,oops sorry HH my homo got the best of me there, but damn that man has an ass on him) vote on the candidate not the party, pay too much taxes to the Cook County Mafia, have not adopted a Chinese kid or want to have a surrogate (what the hell am I gonna do with a kid???) have a “normal, ” family (I wasnt hatched out of an egg you know) with my family, my partner’s family, the friends we made family,…go to the neighborhood straight pub to watch sports and drink beer, hate shopping….have not pursued any agenda (though my neighbors kid came out recently…never talked to him,have no effect on him, ,maybe he saw that two gay guys can have a “normal” life but if anything the poor kid has seen being gay can be as “boring,” as being straight)..support gun rights, antiabortion (though I would prefer not to tell a woman what she can do with her body…but please just put a rubber on kids, its real easy and still fun) ..most sterotypical thing I do is work out quite a lot (not only do I look good I can bet you I could kick any racists, homophobes ass) actually agree with you about liberal bias (one of my buds is dating a professor who is all about “diversity,” but disdains me as I don’t live up to his cliche vision of a homo..irony he doesn’t understand..)

    Reason for this long rant is to let you HH know that yes, we are all different, gay, straight, from Assslamabab or where ever the hell you were deported from…and finally, just STFU about your obsession with gay sex, especially of the anal variety(some of “us” it might surprise you never engage in that particular thrill) and believe me I NEVER think about the “disgusting” things that breeders do (tho thank God for it or I wouldnt be here) in their own homes, some of whom, gasp have anal sex themselves….what do I care what you do, just have fun, pull the drapes, keep it safe and clean up after yourselves okay???

    Now, back to that “Magazine Caliber,” house…….

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +6 (from 10 votes)
  374. helmethofer (January 31, 2013, 2:52 pm)
    I have nothing negative to say about this place. Looks good to me.
    I was thinking the broker missed “Lives Like Sfh” in the description, but it’s in there.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 4 votes)
  375. Mitch you sound like a log cabin Republican. And that comes from somebody who has no dog in this fight with HH.

    http://www.logcabin.org/site/c.nsKSL7PMLpF/b.5468093/k.BE4C/Home.htm

    Me personally, I’m willing to accept all sorts of people under the (R) as long as they’re fiscally conservative.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  376. Reading this long thread has been a very enjoyable hour as it has allowed most of the regulars to tell much about their own personal lives and belief systems and has served to put a human aspect to their online identity. Even reading the despicable posts by our in house closed minded bigot Helmuthead has been enjoyable and extremely revealing.
    While I once considered him to be a hardcore racist and bigot, the revelations he has made recently now makes me view him not as a bad person but rather one who is lost and is now slowly finding his way out of the self imposed closet he has locked himself in.
    His posts indicate that he is suffering from low self esteem and a deeply ingrained hatred of not only of himself but of all who are different from himself. As a way of trying to understand where his hatred comes from I have come to the conclusion that he suffers from a form of self hatred and I believe from his writings that he is not a true hater but rather he is a gay man who cannot come to an acceptance of himself. That alone would force a normally adjusted person to show hate and contempt to all others who do not look like him or those who do not think as the does. While mostly very disturbing to read, each post he makes signifies that there is a deep non acceptance, no matter how tiny that might be of himself. In order to fix that which he is suffering from he has to start making small steps to heal this damaged mind. And I believe with each of his hateful and harmful statements he is making baby steps in a positive direction. He is seeking out a way of getting all of these nasty thoughts out of his head and as disturbing it is to read them sometimes maybe we should help him just by letting him spew out this garbage and hopefully by doing so he is making progress in curing that which ails him and makes enjoyment of his life a more pleasant and constructive one.
    While he does have quite a long road ahead of him, he should be quite proud of himself for making such great strides on what is his quest for his own acceptance of the true HH. I think at the current rate he is making some progress and for that we should congradulate him.
    I guess we will have to tolerate him for now and in the end we will be rewarded by being able to celebrate a new man who is open to new ideas and acceptance of those who do not see things in the current misguided and miserable way he lives.
    So hang in there HH you are finally seeing light at the end of the hatred filled, self loathing path that you are on. Just think of the joys that await you at the end of your journey! You will be able to finally see enough good in another mans characteristics and you will ultimately find a mate and go off to live the happy, normal live that everyone deserves.
    Onto Mitch…I truly enjoyed reading your personal story (I had to read it a few times to fully grasp the eloquence you put into the piece) as it is very similar to my own. The only exception being that because of the dedication that my work required to be successful, I have not been able to put in the due dilligence needed to find that one person who will share the rest of my life.
    My new found freedom of not working is allowing me to open a lot of doors that were once closed. Being able to finally open these doors is leading me onto so many paths I used to only dream of taking once my life’s work was complete.Now that I have the time to devote to a search for a suitable, longterm partner (which will lead to one of NYC/Miami’s grandest weddings…yes I will have two if not more ceremonies), along with persuing the many interests and hobbies I have, will now occupy the empty space that was once filled with blueprints, financial spreadsheets and doing intensively physically demanding labor.
    I am totally happy to be where I am. The financial and social benefits that 35+ years of a 6 day work weeks where I would spend 18+ hr days on the job site with my crew has put me in an extremely comfortable position. The only thing I do not have in my life is having a loved one with which to share the rewards of my dedication to the business. But that is not a huge concern to me as with my vast rolodex of friends and acquiantances in multiple cities will eventually lead me to the right person.

    I knew early on in my career that my own perseverance, undying motivation and unstoppable drive and an OCD driven attention to the smallest of details all combined to place my company on the highly coveted list of those considered to be the best in this industry.
    These characteristics and attributes combined with fantastic great fortune of having loyal, life long and unmatched in the industry dream team of the most talented bunch of construction and remodeling specialists in the country as my dear friends added greatly to my being able to fulfill a life long goal of retiring with a sizable fortune still in place.
    I am beyond grateful to the Great Spirit that I am able to do this at an age that where I will able to enjoy the fruits of my life long labor while still very active and in perfect health and shape.
    Like you Mitch, I spend a lot of time at the gym keeping up a perfect physical image that is greatly valued not only in the gay community but now in all parts of our society. Right or wrong it is a fact that so much emphasis is placed on physical image we are led to believe that in order to be viewed as acceptable in our society, we have to be a perfect body. Not only has a life time of hitting the gym built a near perfect physique (as I see it), I am in the best health as well.
    I too have never contracted ANY sort of STD that HH thinks pervades our portion of society and as surprising as this revelation might be to some curious people, not all gay men enjoy a**l sex. It is just something that I have never thought of as I don’t enjoy it. Not for me!
    I too have never been depressed, quite the opposite it true! I relish the thought of being able to wake up in the morning being incredibly happy with my own life and to me this is the best time of day. Opening my eyes knowing my life is all that I wanted it to be is worth all the stuff I had to endure to make it to this point of my life. I am truly content and am fortunate to have everything I need to be so happy. No self loathing or non self acceptance for me!!
    I too am also never lonely and have a social calendar that is so full that most society obsessed people would be envious of how socially active I am. Looking through the calendar for next three months, I have only about 12 hours that are open for some last minute outings to any number of creative outlets here in the city. The same holds true for the time I am able to enjoy taking in all that Miami and Denver have to offer.
    The hundreds of dear friends, close acquiantances and work related people who I am grateful to have in my life will continue to serve to make the remainder of my life an extremely happy and full one. The sheer variety of people in my rolodex span nearly every type from Wall St pros, investment bankers and wealth management specialists and other financial advisors.
    Real Estate people, Designers and Architects, developers and builders and restoration experts. People from all levels and areas of Fashion…designers, illustrators, seamstresses, modeling industry execs, agents and scouts. Stylists, Models and their agents/handlers, trainers, make up and hair care experts are in there as well.
    The massive list also includes many hospitality career individuals, ranging from servers/bussers, bartenders, hosts and maitre’ds to very prominent Chefs and kitchen personnel and owners of some of NYC’s and Miami’s finest restaurants.
    People from the entertainment industry including singers, broadway actors, theatre set and costume designers, screenplay writers and directors, even some behind the scene theatre personnel are some of the more adventurous and highly entertaining people I know.
    But enough of my life and I only relate it for all of you to read that what HH says is not true. Who we are born as does not make us any different than that of our hetero counterparts. I could go on to say the only thing that seperates heteros from homos are that we take what we are born with and see everyday things in an entirely different and deeper manner.
    So from one content and successful Gay Man to another, much Thanks for your articulate writing and the candid portrayal of your life…I think many of the regulars here benefited greatly from it. As a fellow gay man, I know I did. You put a positive spin on a positive life and for that I am extremely grateful!
    Our lives when poured out for all to see proves we are no different that you HH. We all have the same chance to do with what we want to do with our lives and just because we are wired in different way in regards to who we are born to be attracted to does not have us less than the human beings you are born as.
    Just take time to realize we are no different and stop bringing up the sexual proclivities we are all capable of enjoying. That sort of posting and complaining that you do not agree with it has no place on a RE forum. But realize just because we are able to enjoy sexual activities with members of our own gender does not mean we are of lower grade of human than you are. Equal but different!
    Onto other topics discussed on this revealing thread.
    It is very important to be multi -lingual in our world today. While English is my first language, I have learned Spanish and can speak it fluently. I also can carry on conversations with Italians and French and am now learning some German but realize I have a long ways to go to get to the point of being able to speak that fluently.
    The reason I find it very important to have the ability to communicate with people in their native language is I chose to live in some of the countries most culturally diverse cities, NYC, Miami and Denver. Learning these languages has benefitted me as I am able to fully understand where they are in their lives and to know that while our cultures may be different we still experience both the same problems and enjoy the same things live offers us.
    Depending on where you live it is important to be able to communicate even at the most basic levels in order to get your ideas and thoughts across. I hope those who have children take the time to teach their children this important fact at an early age. It only serves to make their lives richer, while opening their minds up to the fact that regardless of the manner in which people live their own lives, we are still of the same exact species. Having a different skin color or religious or political beliefs does not diminish the importance of anyones life. If anything it makes each of our own lives more important and just as valuable as the rest of the people with whom we have to share the same planet.
    Learning cultures other than yours is a very rewarding thing to be able to experience as it adds greatly to the significance and richness of your own life. Put aside differences in each our lives and instead realize it is these differences that make the world what it is. There is no shame in admitting you may enjoy Mexican or Chinese food or that you dress in a manner that is different from other people riding the subway.We are all the same people HH and we have to learn how to put aside differences in order to appreciate each human for what they are able to bring to the table.
    The more hatred and non acceptance of people based solely to their ethnic heritage that you chose to carry around does nothing positive to you whatsoever. If anything you are doing some serious physical and emotional damage to yourself. Study after study has shown us that people who harbor the type of hatred that you display towards members of other nationalities and religious beliefs different from you will actually cause you to suffer from physical ailments and disease. The very real possibility that you will suffer an early death caused by this deep hatred should be enough of a reason to work on your flawed outlook and hopefully for your own well being you will adopt a new modern belief system that will enable you to enjoy all that this life has to offer.
    Wishing only the best of life to you HH and I hope you will learn even a tiny bit of what we are attempting to convey to you. Take as small a step as you feel comfortable with, It is a fantastic life outside your own front door and hopefully you will learn this sooner or later.
    Peace out all and thanks for allowing me to write truthfully about my feelings not about Real Estate but about our lives in general. I know based on past comments that some of you hate reading my mini novels here but this one comes from the heart and is posted in hopes that a few people realize the wrongness in their thought process and the belief system they hold close to their hearts and open their lives up to all that is brought to us by the Great Spirit…..brought for us to enjoy and to pass down to future generations.
    Great day and a great life to all here on this fantastic Real Estate site!!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 14 votes)
  377. “ban hhoffer simple solution, we can get back to arguing hood bondries, ELP and the ocean, where HD lives”

    I’ve banned him many, many times.

    VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 5 votes)
  378. “but remember we cannot talk about the paint or furniture, as those things change when the seller moves”

    Ha! Ha!

    You got me Groove. :)

    VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +5 (from 5 votes)
  379. “Pays the bills I guess.”

    I wish. I make almost nothing from this site. It’s enough to pay my gas to drive around Chicago’s neighborhoods taking pictures of houses. That’s about it.

    VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  380. Let’s talk about real estate- shall we? This discussion is getting tired.

    Move on everybody.

    Lots of activity in the housing market this weekend. Did you see all the open houses? Did you see all the people at them? I did. Did anyone go to an open house which was swarming with people?

    VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +4 (from 4 votes)
  381. Okay, here’s a couple of weekend real estate stories. This place: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3152-N-Hudson-Ave-60657/unit-1/home/13372775 went on the market on Thursday afternoon. I sent our realtor an email Thursday evening, asking her to set up an appointment to see it Saturday morning, which she did. Early Friday afternoon, she emailed me that it had gone under contract. Less than 24 hours on the market!

    Had an appointment to see this place on Sunday at noon: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2648-N-Seminary-Ave-60614/unit-3/home/12729855 . NOT an open house, but there were 6 other couples looking there at the same time we were. I would be shocked if it wasn’t under contract soon.

    It’s getting a little crazy out there.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  382. Thanks for the stories Madeline. This is what I saw over the weekend as well. Multiple people looking at properties in the GZ whether or not it was an open house. Even in that crappy Sunday weather.

    VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  383. Oh- hottest price point I saw was $500,000 to $650,000.

    VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  384. “Let’s talk about real estate- shall we? This discussion is getting tired.”

    Apologies for going off topic, but can you just confirm that your position is that you don’t want dan/hh posting here under any name?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +4 (from 6 votes)
  385. “Apologies for going off topic, but can you just confirm that your position is that you don’t want dan/hh posting here under any name?”

    Longtime readers/posters here know Dan’s history (why do you think we still call him Dan?) They all have been able to pick out his various reincarinations (remember when he was Marcus, for instance?) But since I’ve banned him too many times to count- I figure I’d just rather know when Dan/helmethofer is posting and leave it at that. I continue to delete his most outrageous comments. When a bunch of his comments are deleted he usually straightens up for awhile.

    But it doesn’t help when people bait him (and you know you do.) Just don’t respond to his craziness. I understand that’s hard- but just don’t do it.

    Recently, it seems that the chatterati regulars have gotten a good grip on “controlling” him- mainly ignoring most of his diatribes and keeping the discussion on real estate (for the most part.) I appreciate that. You’re all keeping him in check.

    We all know Dan’s problems. But he’s a reflection of greater society (sadly.)

    VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 4 votes)
  386. ““… can you just confirm that your position is that you don’t want dan/hh posting here under any name?”

    [long non-answer]”

    So, we should take it that your position is ‘whatever; but I’d prefer if no one feeds the troll’?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  387. “Oh- hottest price point I saw was $500,000 to $650,000.”

    That’s pretty high for the hottest price point, no?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +4 (from 4 votes)
  388. Holy fuck westloopelo, I’m surprised you didn’t crash Sabrina’s frickin server with that barrage of useless blathering wall of text

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +12 (from 14 votes)
  389. “[$500,000 to $650,000 is] pretty high for the hottest price point, no?”

    Controlling for (i) GZ locales and (ii) the income ‘necessary’ to have a longview on GZ living and (iii) likely buyer mix slanting toward families/soon-to-be-families and (iv) actual median family income among those both (a) looking to buy rather than rent and (b) looking primarily in GZ and (v) relatively small number of buyer needed to make the under-100 potentially viable (there are *total* 320 3-bed+ listings (inc sfh, condo, th & multi) in the city for $500-700k) listings look ‘busy’, seems about right.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  390. “Oh- hottest price point I saw was $500,000 to $650,000.”
    “That’s pretty high for the hottest price point, no?”

    I don’t see how you can conclude much about hottest price point from going to a few open houses.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 2 votes)
  391. “Lots of activity in the housing market this weekend. Did you see all the open houses?”

    Redfin reported that there were 950 open houses this weekend compared to 250 last weekend.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  392. Westloopelo derailed the thread when he couldn’t tolerate HD’s decision to move to Park Ridge and was bothered further that HD was happy about his decision:

    “I find this the saddest statement on this site for quite some time.”

    The thing that set westloopelo off was HD’s comment about English-speaking kids at the sled hill. He thinks it’s the saddest thing. Everyone here should have come to HD’s defense from the thought police, not just me.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 8 votes)
  393. “Redfin reported that there were 950 open houses this weekend compared to 250 last weekend.”

    The famous Post Super Bowl bump!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -1 (from 5 votes)
  394. well if everyone else is going to thread-jack
    http://www.chicagonow.com/adventures-house-hunting/2013/02/super-bowl-is-over-time-to-get-selling-or-buying-or-both/

    I will ask this: if you are going to open houses, would you rather go on a rainy day like yesterday or a sunny warm day? I use to think sunny warm day until it became so much work and cut a big chunk out of my day. I also think a rainy day might lend an opportunity to see if there is any water damage on the property.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  395. dafuq Westloopelo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    now back to the original topic, to be middle class in the city limits one needs a HHI of $175k to live what i think is a MC lifestyle.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +5 (from 5 votes)
  396. If people dislike Westloop, I’m sure his sexuality is the LEAST of their concerns.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +3 (from 5 votes)
  397. nice to see westloop in old form bringing the quintessential tl;dr post

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
  398. If diversity is so desirable, why is there a cost premium places that are not diverse? Why is park ridge and northbrook more expensive than, for example, skokie or niles?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -6 (from 12 votes)
  399. HD,

    It’s like when you were part of the lowly renter class. Stop trying to rationalize the compromises you’ve had to make. Don’t get upset that other people don’t want what you want. Do just try to be happy.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +5 (from 9 votes)
  400. “If diversity is so desirable, why is there a cost premium places that are not diverse? Why is park ridge and northbrook more expensive than, for example, skokie or niles?”

    hey hey, maybe you’re causality is flipped. maybe the diverse are priced out of those fancy spots. or is there a price premium for bridgeport over logan square I’m not aware of

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 4 votes)
  401. “or is there a price premium for bridgeport over logan square I’m not aware of”

    the premium for Bridgeport is not built into the price, or the there is a premium in the price but only to be negated by the negative monetary value of fact you have to live in bridgeport.

    to many variables to assume causality.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  402. There’s “diversity,” and then there’s diversity. Over the past 3-4 years, we’ve met quite a few families at our go-to playgrounds, at the park, or at our regular dining haunts, for whom English is not a first language. Do you think that everyone in the medical, business and other grad programs at local universities is a native born U.S. citizen? Everyone in residencies is a native born U.S. citizen? Everyone working at large corporations, consulting firms, etc. is a native born U.S. citizen?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 6 votes)
  403. I think the bigger issue is economic diversity. There are very, very few places where you can find a range of both incomes and ethnicities living in close proximity.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  404. “I think the bigger issue is economic diversity. There are very, very few places where you can find a range of both incomes and ethnicities living in close proximity”

    For the most part, yes. However, I’ve met lots of foreign families who (from what I could gather) don’t have big incomes, and rent 2 bedroom condos (with a couple of kids) in our neighborhood, because they place a premium on having immediate access to the park/zoo/lakefront, easy access to things like the Nature Museum and a quick bus down to Mich Ave, etc., hail a cab at or within 50 feet of their front door at all hours, etc. Plenty of people from urban areas of the developed world aren’t yet obsesed with having a yard, basement family/tv/rumpus rooms, etc.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 5 votes)
  405. “There are very, very few places where you can find a range of both incomes and ethnicities living in close proximity.”

    VISIT RODGERS PARK

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +5 (from 5 votes)
  406. “Do you think that everyone in the medical, business and other grad programs at local universities is a native born U.S. citizen? Everyone in residencies is a native born U.S. citizen? Everyone working at large corporations, consulting firms, etc. is a native born U.S. citizen?”

    hd wouldn’t know what kinds of people are in most of those situations.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +5 (from 9 votes)
  407. “There are very, very few places where you can find a range of both incomes and ethnicities living in close proximity.”

    VISIT RODGERS PARK

    OR GOLF MILL MALL AREA

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  408. I never said they didn’t exist at all, Groove. Although I have no clue where the GOLF MILL MALL AREA is.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  409. “There’s “diversity,” and then there’s diversity.”

    I can’t tell which is which and which is better, more authentic, etc.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  410. “I can’t tell which is which and which is better, more authentic, etc.”

    Well, a lot of the discussion implies that both of them are bad. That the extent of the diversity should be rich-ish people with southern european (but not spanish) ancestors and rich-ish people with northern european (but not Dutch!) ancestors. Oh, and a few genuine rich people are ok, as long as they have european (but not spanish or dutch) ancestors. And so long as they all speak ‘Murican fluently, of course.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  411. One grandparent from a continent other than Europe is also acceptable, but only if you can regale your neighbors with colorful stories about his or her past at dinner parties. Bonus points for Native American heritage or participation in the French resistance during WWII.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 2 votes)
  412. “I will ask this: if you are going to open houses, would you rather go on a rainy day like yesterday or a sunny warm day? I use to think sunny warm day until it became so much work and cut a big chunk out of my day. I also think a rainy day might lend an opportunity to see if there is any water damage on the property.”

    Icarus, I love real estate, but at least when I was seriously looking for a house, open housing was better in bad weather. If you are seriously looking, it takes lots of energy and time that I’d rather not lose on a beautiful day. Now, if it is open housing for the fun of real estate…..then definitely nice weather is better because why even go out if it isn’t nice?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
  413. “Bonus points for Native American heritage or participation in the French resistance during WWII.”

    You mean minus points, since when did people on CC like Billy Ray Cyrus types? It’s hilarious those dilettantes still trying to believe that speaking French is worthwhile (in America). The people you run into that might possibly speak it in 21st century Chicago are going to be Muslims.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -4 (from 6 votes)
  414. “If diversity is so desirable…”

    It’s not. Robert Putnam wrote a book that uncovered its flaws: Bowling Alone. Remember when America had the Kiwanis, Lions, Elks, Rotary, K of C, Shriners, Civic group, etc. etc. Every single town in America had their signs posted on the city sign at the entrances. That kind of unity is impossible under diversity, and that kind of volunteerism and community-building is dead for the most part….replaced by distrust as Putnam’s studies have shown. Let’s face it, people here on CC all seem to defend Jewish-Americans and presume they are smart. They choose self-segregation for their families. So, if people who shun diversity are “bad”, you can point the finger there first.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: -2 (from 8 votes)
  415. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZIP_code#Marketing

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  416. Enter in 60614 and the anti spam code

    http://www.claritas.com/MyBestSegments/Default.jsp?ID=20&pageName=ZIP%2BCode%2BLookup&menuOption=ziplookup

    tasty

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  417. People like jjj tend to disregard that half of all children in America will be on food stamps at least some point in their childhood. All he focuses on are the foreign grad students and call it diversity. I know people from all walks of life moreso than 90% of the posters on this board. The middle class american is only a paycheck or two away from financial disaster. If one family can make it in the world and have a decent income , power to them, regardless if they’re diverse or not. I know what it’s like to be poor, very poor, and I don’t mean college student poor, and I never wish to be that again. Money isn’t everything in the world, money and a large paycheck means nothing. It doesn’t make someone a better person or intrinsically worth more. It can all be gone in an instant because you can’t take money with you when you’re dead.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +2 (from 6 votes)
  418. “hd wouldn’t know what kinds of people are in most of those situations.”

    You think I’m a dumbass and I think you’re a goof. Lets just leave it at that.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +4 (from 8 votes)
  419. Sad_at_Plaza440 on February 12th, 2013 at 8:20 am

    Since that has become kind of an open thread, this property looks like one of the more horribly over-priced places I’ve seen in a while: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2727-W-Sunnyside-Ave-60625/home/18954382. Am I being too aggressive, or is this seller really in trouble? Also, even at the peak of the boom in 2006, I can’t see why someone would buy that size house on that size lot in that location for over $1.5M. I’m guess it sells below $1M, and $1.05M tops.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  420. [2727 W Sunnyside]: Yeah, gotta be significantly overpriced. Wo having spent any time comparing, 4443 mozart seems nicer, 45 foot lot, has been on the market a long time and hasn’t sold, w current list at $1.14. Another way to think about it is that the sunnyside house would sell for maybe $1.2 max in bell or coonley, again wo having looked at it closely. And I’m guessing lots are worth significantly less in the manor.

    Maybe $1.0 ish for sunnyside.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  421. $1.45Million? No freaking way. Nearby recent sales are no where near this. DZ is right at $1million ish.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  422. “The people you run into that might possibly speak it in 21st century Chicago are going to be Muslims.”
    LOL, HH.
    I speak French fluently and I am Catholic.
    I was born in Canada, but my heritage is not European.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)

Leave a Reply


× eight = 48