Market Conditions: January Home Sales Jump 32.2% In Chicago To A 6-Year High

Feb 21 • Market Conditions • 170 Views • 195 Comments

I almost forgot about the January home sales. Everyone knows it was a hot, hot, hot start to the year in Chicago.

From the Illinois Association of Realtors:

The city of Chicago saw a 32.2 percent year-over-year home sales increase in January 2013 with 1,485 sales, up from 1,123 in January 2012.

The condo market in the city of Chicago showed a sales increase of 29.7 percent to 829 units sold in January 2013.

The median price of a home in the city of Chicago in January 2013 was $159,000 up 7.4 percent compared to January 2012 when it was $148,000.

Here’s the data since 2006 (thanks to G):

  • January 2006: 2009 sales and median price of $258,000
  • January 2007: 1850 sales and median price of $279,900
  • January 2008: 1203 sales and median price of $290,000
  • January 2009: 918 sales and median price of $205,000
  • January 2010: 1237 sales and median price of $195,000
  • January 2011: 1034 sales and median price of $150,000
  • January 2012: 1093 sales and median price of $149,000 (not sure why IAR has 1123 sales for last year)
  • January 2013: 1485 sales and median price of $159,000

The percentage of total January Chicago sales that were REO/Short Sales:

  • 2009: 25%
  • 2010: 42%
  • 2011: 50%
  • 2012: 49%
  • ?

Chicago condo/townhouse sales:

  • January 2009: 474 sales and median price of $308,625
  • January 2010: 675 sales and median price of $279,000
  • January 2011: 585 sales and median price of $180,000
  • January 2012: 623 sales and median price of $185,000
  • January 2013: 829 sales and median price of $202,500

“The first month of 2013 continues to show positive signs of a market recovery in the city of Chicago,” said REALTOR® Zeke Morris, president of the Chicago Association of REALTORS® and Operating Principal and Managing Broker, Keller Williams Realty, CCG. “The median price of a condo rose to $202,500, up 8.7 percent from January of last year. The condo market’s slow revival shows a steady but measured improvement that we will continue to watch as an indicator for the greater health of the city’s housing marketplace in 2013.”

“Foreclosures continue to dampen price gains and reduce inventory levels as prospective sellers are wary of the effect these properties have on their own prospects,” said Geoffrey J.D. Hewings, Director of the Regional Economics Applications Laboratory at the University of Illinois. “However, the sales volumes are impressive and with foreclosure sales continuing to outpace new additions, there is some expectation that over the next year, prices might start to move upward in some sustained fashion.”

What are the issues that could derail this housing recovery this year?

Will rising mortgage rates (if they rise) or continued frustration over low inventory do it?

Home sales, median prices increase in January; housing gains extend into new year [Illinois Association of Realtors, Press Release, February 21, 2013]

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195 Responses to Market Conditions: January Home Sales Jump 32.2% In Chicago To A 6-Year High

  1. Gary Lucido says:

    45% were distressed.

    “What are the issues that could derail this housing recovery this year? Will rising mortgage rates (if they rise) or continued frustration over low inventory do it?”

    Sabrina, the question reveals a negative bias. You could just as easily have asked what’s going to keep it going. Just giving you a hard time.

    I just did an analysis of how hot the market is right now: http://www.chicagonow.com/getting-real/2013/02/hot-chicago-real-estate-market/ 41% of the homes listed just 2 weeks ago are already under contract. The upward trend is dramatic.

  2. yoss says:

    We’ve had rising sales and prices for two years now. I think people will feel safer buying homes and won’t worry as much about catching a falling knife. I don’t think prices will increase much from current levels but I also don’t think we’ll see the deals from 2009/10 for a long time – if ever. I think 2/2s will be the last to recover and will mostly be owned by investors. Trying to predict the effect of higher rates on housing prices is very difficult. Are rates higher because the economy is improving and the Fed is raising rates? I would think housing is higher. Are rates higher because of rampant inflation (see 1970s)? I think housing is lower.

  3. Vlajos says:

    Thanks Gary, interesting.

  4. Elliot says:

    Looks like I missed my chance and have been priced out forever. See you after the next bubble burst.

  5. yoss says:

    ” Elliot (February 21, 2013, 9:12 am)
    Looks like I missed my chance and have been priced out forever. See you after the next bubble burst.”

    I would imagine it is frustrating being a buyer right now – no inventory, prices increasing and most people looking in rear view mirror thinking of all the deals they missed. In the meantime they are paying all time high rents while waiting for the 09/10 deals they missed to return or the “bubble” (which is really just price stabilization rather than a bubble in my opinion) to burst. I think when the next bubble bursts prices will be higher than where they are today – need appreciation first for it to be a bubble.

  6. Icarus says:

    I think what we are seing — not in all cases of course — is that people who wanted to step up to a SFH in 2008/2009 but couldn’t because they discovered they had an underwater property used the last couple of years to come up with a strategy to be able to buy a house. It took a few years but they some combination of:

    1) rented their condo for two years after moving in with future spouse
    2) paid down their current mortgage enough to break even
    3) saved enough downpayment to get financing
    4) improved their credit scores and perhaps increased their income so that they could “afford” two mortgages without or without a renter

  7. DZ says:

    “We’ve had rising…prices for two years now.”

    Really? Based on what?

  8. Vlajos says:

    I think the real interesting stats are that average days on the market dropped 12% to 78 days and inventory is down 41%.

    http://www.illinoisrealtor.org/sites/illinoisrealtor.org/files/2013marketstats/City-of-Chicago.pdf

  9. sonies says:

    Don’t worry about mortgage rates rising, the fed has basically said they will buy hundreds of billions of MBS’s until unemployment reaches 6.5% and inflation stays under 3% (which with their funny math, they will)

    I’m not sure if you guys saw the January CPI report, but it said that gas prices decreased last month… lol its all lies!

    All I know is that unless your income is going up, your standard of living is decreasing dramatically.

    Inflation will hit but not in the housing market as people are still scared of getting burned again, and well, less disposable income because of the rising prices of necessities and less wage growth.

    I hope i’m wrong as I wouldn’t mind unloading my 2/2 in the next few years hopefully for more than my mortgage balance

  10. homedelete says:

    Are you a realtor?

    There are plenty of deals out there. Just not as many in the GZ but still plenty of deals especially in the burbs or in non-GZ territory. And don’t forget that many sellers as they see the market improving will list their property which will in turn drive inventory up in the near future.

    ” yoss (February 21, 2013, 9:19 am)

    ” Elliot (February 21, 2013, 9:12 am)
    Looks like I missed my chance and have been priced out forever. See you after the next bubble burst.”

    I would imagine it is frustrating being a buyer right now – no inventory, prices increasing and most people looking in rear view mirror thinking of all the deals they missed. In the meantime they are paying all time high rents while waiting for the 09/10 deals they missed to return or the “bubble” (which is really just price stabilization rather than a bubble in my opinion) to burst. I think when the next bubble bursts prices will be higher than where they are today – need appreciation first for it to be a bubble.”

  11. c says:

    Time to buy is now. why pay crazy rents when you can lock in a 30yr below 4%? You save money every month and most likely the market will keep going up as people are more comfortable buying as they believe the bottom is in. You can rent the property down the line if you so choose. If your plans is to stay somewehere for 3+ years buying makes sense. get the tax write-off and save on rent. Hell, even take a 7/1 arm belwo 3%…

  12. jenny says:

    Where are all of these inexpensive homes? Are investors just buying up buildings in the slums and renting them to section 8 tenants?

    On the other hand, I read an interesting article in the Economist recently that estimated that homes in the US are undervalued by 20% compared to income levels.

  13. sonies says:

    Yeah Median price of 160k seems so low, although with 43% distressed I guess its possible if 600 homes are selling for like 10k in the slums,

  14. yoss says:

    “DZ (February 21, 2013, 9:22 am)
    “We’ve had rising…prices for two years now.”
    Really? Based on what?”

    January 2011: 585 sales and median price of $180,000
    January 2012: 623 sales and median price of $185,000
    January 2013: 829 sales and median price of $202,500

  15. yoss says:

    “homedelete (February 21, 2013, 10:00 am)
    Are you a realtor?
    There are plenty of deals out there. Just not as many in the GZ but still plenty of deals especially in the burbs or in non-GZ territory. And don’t forget that many sellers as they see the market improving will list their property which will in turn drive inventory up in the near future.”

    I’m not a realtor as I’m sure you know but nice use of this classic distraction in an attempt to undermine my arguments without actually making any of your own. My comments are regarding the GZ – I don’t know anything about the burbs or non-GZ properties. Regarding your “theory” on sellers coming out of the woodwork – where are they? The market is improving yet inventory is at lows. Again this is GZ in the city. With respect to deals – where are they (in the GZ)? I don’t see any.

  16. DZ says:

    [yoss saying median, median, median]

    I thought we all understood on this site that medians were often v misleading. (And how does the current median price compare to bubble times?)

    “Yeah Median price of 160k seems so low, although with 43% distressed I guess its possible if 600 homes are selling for like 10k in the slums”

    Well, I take that back, maybe there is some confusion about median. The hypothesized 600 homes could sell for $1 or $159K or anywhere in between and not affect the current median.

  17. miumiu says:

    No way, but the chatterratti had said the housing prices won’t rise in any foreseeable future. Something must be wrong with this data. They have kidnapped G and are forging data!

  18. miumiu says:

    I think people here suffer from premature purchase syndrome or something. Decision to buy or rent is more complicated than just looking at mortgage rates. If ones circumstances, jobs, marriage status, number of children and so on may change significantly in near future, buying might not make sense. Even if “theoretically” (most likely based on a flawed reasoning) a few hundred bucks are saved per month.

    “Time to buy is now. why pay crazy rents when you can lock in a 30yr below 4%? You save money every month and most likely the market will keep going up as people are more comfortable buying as they believe the bottom is in. You can rent the property down the line if you so choose. If your plans is to stay somewehere for 3+ years buying makes sense. get the tax write-off and save on rent. Hell, even take a 7/1 arm belwo 3%…”

  19. yoss says:

    “DZ (February 21, 2013, 10:34 am)
    [yoss saying median, median, median]
    I thought we all understood on this site that medians were often v misleading.”
    You are the one who assumed I was talking about CS index – all you had to do was look at the top of the post to see the data I was referring to. Median data is misleading but it is what was referenced in the posting and correctly or incorrectly most buyers look at median price instead of CS index. I doubt 5% of the US population understands how CS index is calculated. I don’t have current CS data for Chicago but I think it is up for the year.

  20. Benjamon9 says:

    It also may make sense as well, miumiu. If one knows they plan on having one or two more kids in the next few years and is currently in a 2 bedroom apartment with one child, now might be a good time to buy the house while prices are reasonable and interest rates low rather than waiting four years when they have two more kids and need a house and prices and interest rates may be higher.

    I agree that lots more wieghs in on whether to buy or not but it can go both ways. (Towards renting or buying)

  21. sonies says:

    I know what median means, my hypothetical is just an idea of probably what is happening, where there is a huge disparity in the market, lots of homes selling for a song to investors, and lots of expensive houses selling at a premium if they are turn key to homeowners. I don’t have the data but even still where can you get a “median” house for 160k?

  22. DZ says:

    “You are the one who assumed I was talking about CS index”

    I didn’t say anything about CS. Do you think CS reports medians? [fn]

    “Median data is misleading but it is what was referenced in the posting and correctly or incorrectly most buyers look at median price instead of CS index.”

    My mistake. I thought you were offering the view that *you* believed that prices had been rising for two years.

    “I don’t have current CS data for Chicago but I think it is up for the year.”

    Most recent month was up YOY, I think, first such YOY increase in long time. Not rising over the last two years.

    [fn] It’s not really the median-ness of the realtor assn type numbers that’s the issue, it’s comparing differently skewed samples over time. But I wanted to get in a comment about sonies comment at the same time.

  23. anon (tfo) says:

    “correctly or incorrectly most buyers look at median price instead of CS index.”

    If most people thought jumping off a cliff was a good idea, would you repeat it as if it were objectively a good idea?

  24. DZ says:

    “I know what median means, my hypothetical is just an idea of probably what is happening, where there is a huge disparity in the market, lots of homes selling for a song to investors, and lots of expensive houses selling at a premium if they are turn key to homeowners. I don’t have the data but even still where can you get a “median” house for 160k?”

    Fair enough, just giving you an unnecessarily hard time. Interesting point, maybe some can tell identify the median house(s) for us. There is actually such a house, if the numbers are correct.

  25. Fred says:

    How is the median price affected by flippers? How many investors buy for a song one month, then sell again for a premium price a few months later? Are prices actually up in general, or are properties at the bottom of their depreciation cycle just getting renovated and placed back on the market on top?

  26. homedelete says:

    “Yeah Median price of 160k seems so low”

    Outside of the GZ – and not the sums either – the median house price is around 160, for sure. Groove’s neithborhood, The median sale price in Jeff Park is only $177,000 for SFH.

  27. sonies says:

    Thats crazy, I mean what are the low end of prices in Jeff park? Can’t be much lower than that can it?

  28. anon (tfo) says:

    Another:

    http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4327-N-Drake-Ave-60618/home/13483864

    Neither of them noted as a short sale.

  29. yoss says:

    “anon (tfo) (February 21, 2013, 11:07 am)
    “correctly or incorrectly most buyers look at median price instead of CS index.”
    If most people thought jumping off a cliff was a good idea, would you repeat it as if it were objectively a good idea?”
    Where did I say I thought it was a good idea to use median prices rather than CS? I said that correctly or incorrectly they look at median prices when considering if prices are increasing / decreasing / stable. I was making an observation rather than forming an opinion on the observation. Given your attention to detail I would think you could tell the difference.

  30. anon (tfo) says:

    “what are the low end of prices in Jeff park?”

    For a sfh/2-flat? This:

    http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4919-N-Meade-Ave-60630/home/13500057

    $80k

  31. anon (tfo) says:

    “Where did I say I thought it was a good idea to use median prices rather than CS?”

    You didn’t say it was a good idea, but you lead a comment with:

    “We’ve had rising … prices for two years now.”

    which was apparently based on the median price data presented in the post. Guess I didn’t read in the “People see reports of … and based on those reports, believe that prices are rising” [or something akin to that] that you were thinking in that comment.

  32. Benjamon9 says:

    Jefferson Park has Riis park in it? I thought Groove was in Galewood or Monteclare or Austin or whatever you want to call the area by the Brickyard.

  33. Vlajos says:

    I think CS has serious flaws for areas with older homes. Someone told me they don’t include info on homes that haven’t sold over a long period of time. Where I live, half the homes seem to switch hands every 20 years or so. My home is 100 years old and has had 4 owners, including us.

    CS works well in Phoenix I imagine.

  34. JMM says:

    Inventory in the suburbs, at least the ones I know, has gapped up significantly starting with the post Superbowl period. We’re still not at 2011, but there is a significant upward trend in listings. Redfin does a decent job tracking it, look at their charts and you can see the trend reversal.

    In the city, condo listings have increased, but the same does not seem true for SFH. Most of the complaints and crazy market times appear to revolve around SFHs which is to be expected — there simply aren’t that many of them in the first place on a relative basis. SFH rental demand remains strong from what I see, in fact, some “frustrated” buyers have entered into leases with the expectation that they will wait for more availability and a calmer market and find the right house instead of competing in a circus act right now. If the purchae happens off lease cycle say in the middle, that works ok given the need for a lot of families to completely renovate before they move in (small children and renovations do not mix). I cannot blame them, but $6000-$7000 in rent that we are seeing for a renovated 4BR SFH in a premium north side neighorbood is probably 2000-2500 above PITA for these folks. That’s tuition at a good private school — for one child of course. We’ve forecasted rent / improvement concessions for the back end of 2013 so the thought is some of the air is coming out of the high end rental market for families.

  35. homedelete says:

    All I’m trying to say is that outside of the GZ and select suburbs prices are far more realistic of how most people live. We all joke about “schaumburg” and how much it sucks for upper middle class people to live there but the median selling price for a SFH is only $211,000. That’s a $1,500 a month mortgage payment with taxes and 10% down. We joke about schaumburg and the lifestyle is awful but it’s a safe place, in cook county, low crime, lots of shopping and a TON of diversity that every on CC loves so tremendously….

    Once you start moving lower down the socio-economic ladder to ‘white’ Midlothian it’s $86k median home price for a SFH.

    http://www.redfin.com/IL/Midlothian/14740-Kildare-Ave-60445/home/12985689

    THis is $112,500 in Midlothian, a perfectly acceptable although middle class suburb. This would be high $200′s in Park Ridge, and $450,000 in the GZ as land value only.

    Don’t let the GZ prices jade your thinking, not everyone lives this way.

  36. DZ says:

    “I think CS has serious flaws for areas with older homes. Someone told me they don’t include info on homes that haven’t sold over a long period of time. Where I live, half the homes seem to switch hands every 20 years or so. My home is 100 years old and has had 4 owners, including us.”

    It downweights and at some point doesn’t count sales where the prior sale was a long time ago. Hard to figure out how the house itself has had improvements or not over that time frame. But that’s only a problem if the houses that trade with big gaps appreciate at a different rate from those that turn over relatively more quickly (which is possible, but not nec so). Bigger problem is that it covers a wide area so if you believe the e.g. coonley hood has different dynamics (even within a price tier) CS will only tell you so much.

  37. homedelete says:

    “Once you start moving lower down the socio-economic ladder to ‘white’ Midlothian it’s $86k median home price for a SFH. ”

    I say this in quotes because everyone knows the south side is way more segregated than any area north of Madison street (despite what HH believes about self-segration).

  38. DZ says:

    “$6000-$7000 in rent that we are seeing for a renovated 4BR SFH in a premium north side neighorbood”

    So rents are already coming down!

  39. anon (tfo) says:

    “Someone told me they don’t include info on homes that haven’t sold over a long period of time.”

    If it’s far enough back that they don’t have the prior sale in their database (back to mid-70s or so, iirc), then yeah, excluded. And they do discount the index effect of older prior sales (a 6-month flip counts for more than a 10 year hold and that counts for more than 20 year hold). So, truth-y.

  40. sonies says:

    Sorry Hd, Midlothian is not an acceptable suburb, i’d be like the hillbilly black sheep in my family if I lived somewhere like that

  41. JMM says:

    “So rents are already coming down!”

    These aren’t baby boomer trophy manses circa 2004-2008. More like renovated frame and converted two flat. These went for 4000-ish only a few years ago.

  42. yoss says:

    “anon (tfo) (February 21, 2013, 11:53 am)
    “Where did I say I thought it was a good idea to use median prices rather than CS?”
    You didn’t say it was a good idea, but you lead a comment with:
    “We’ve had rising … prices for two years now.”
    which was apparently based on the median price data presented in the post. Guess I didn’t read in the “People see reports of … and based on those reports, believe that prices are rising” [or something akin to that] that you were thinking in that comment.”

    You didn’t need to read anything into the statement. It was a factual statement based on the post Sabrina made.

  43. anonny says:

    My gut tells me that we could list our two bedroom (which needs a new kitchen) now, and close at $10-20k above what we paid in 2010. So we’d almost break even after closing costs. But where would we go next? There’s no Unicorn Criteria compliant 3 bedrooms in our range to buy right now (at least not with the down we’d scrape together after closing), nor do there appear to be any suitable 3 beds to rent. Maybe – mabye – we could find a suitable 2 bed to rent, but it would likely cost quite a bit more a month than our current place. So we’ll watch and wait, likely through as late as the early spring of 2015, to sell our place and find a suitable 3+ bedroom to buy in the city. One thing’s for sure: If a SFH (i.e., the burbs) were on our radar, we’d be in no hurry whatsoever, and would happily stick it out in sub-optimal quarters in some prime hood in the city with great public elementary schools (and cheap taxes), and only towards the end of the eldest’s middle school would we begin looking at the multitude of deals that will be surfacing in the coming years in even the very nicest burbs.

  44. DZ says:

    yoss is always wrong.

  45. homedelete says:

    Only by luck of birth did you end up 6’11″ and upper middle class…..nobody (except JMM) is too good for anything…

    ” sonies (February 21, 2013, 12:15 pm)
    Sorry Hd, Midlothian is not an acceptable suburb, i’d be like the hillbilly black sheep in my family if I lived somewhere like that”

  46. DZ says:

    fact: yoss is always wrong.

  47. Vlajos says:

    “If a SFH (i.e., the burbs) were on our radar, we’d be in no hurry whatsoever, and would happily stick it out in sub-optimal quarters in some prime hood in the city with great public elementary schools (and cheap taxes), and only towards the end of the eldest’s middle school would we begin looking at the multitude of deals that will be surfacing in the coming years in even the very nicest burbs.”

    Makes a lot of sense.

  48. sonies says:

    I’m not that tall, and yes, you’re probably right hd, although my mom managed to get the hell out of Marquette park and Palos back in the day, i might have done the same even if born in different circumstances

  49. BE says:

    “If a SFH (i.e., the burbs) were on our radar, we’d be in no hurry whatsoever, and would happily stick it out in sub-optimal quarters in some prime hood in the city with great public elementary schools (and cheap taxes), and only towards the end of the eldest’s middle school would we begin looking at the multitude of deals that will be surfacing in the coming years in even the very nicest burbs.”

    But if you have the option to be settled, then why not do that before school is an issue? Moving is very tough on kids, especially grade/middle school-aged kids. Why put them through that if it can be avoided?

  50. Gary Lucido says:

    This post I did a while back on my own neighborhood demonstrates just how useless median price information is for determining what’s going on with “home prices”: http://www.chicagonow.com/getting-real/2012/12/hot-chicago-real-estate-markets-east-village-and-ukrainian-village/

    It’s useful for measuring mix shifts. What you see in that graph is almost certainly a mix shift. Home prices in my neighborhood have not doubled in the last few years.

    Having said all that my sense is that the Case Shiller index does a good job of capturing the general trend in home prices in Chicago. It certainly passes the smell test, though it has it’s limitations and should not be used at a neighborhood or property specific level.

  51. yoss says:

    “DZ (February 21, 2013, 12:36 pm)
    fact: yoss is always wrong.”

    I agree – I am in fact always wrong :)

  52. mh says:

    This is one of those intangible benefits of homeownership v. renting when you have kids – I bought my current house in part because I wanted my kids to grow up on the same block, with the same neighbors, in the same schools, and feel like they have community roots. No clue if it will actually pan out (jobs change, people change, etc.), but that’s the goal. Uprooting older kids is tough.

    “But if you have the option to be settled, then why not do that before school is an issue? Moving is very tough on kids, especially grade/middle school-aged kids. Why put them through that if it can be avoided?”

  53. looking to buy says:

    “But if you have the option to be settled, then why not do that before school is an issue? Moving is very tough on kids, especially grade/middle school-aged kids. Why put them through that if it can be avoided?”

    I agree. It’s tough on the kid’s when you move to a new neighborhood/town city. That’s why you don’t see a lot of people move from Schaumburg to Northbrook becuase of a job change. If a family voluntarily chooses to move, it’s usually within the same town/city and same school attendace area.

  54. helmethofer says:

    “and would happily stick it out in sub-optimal quarters in some prime hood in the city with great public elementary schools (and cheap taxes), and only towards the end of the eldest’s middle school would we begin looking at the multitude of deals that will be surfacing in the coming years in even the very nicest burbs.”

    Just curious but how good is LIncoln Park HS? I was stuck at a red light at Halsted at Armitage in the afternoon. School was just out and there must have been 30 kids at the NWC of the intersection waiting to catch a southbound bus. I’d say 90% of them were African-Americans. I decided to drive back up Orchard to see the school and parking lot, etc. More of the same. If the CPS and GZ is filling up and students within the boundaries are taking all the slots, then were do these kids live? Marshall Field homes? How good is the school? Viable? sure didn’t look like it.

  55. Icarus says:

    “Just curious but how good is LIncoln Park HS? I was stuck at a red light at Halsted at Armitage in the afternoon. School was just out and there must have been 30 kids at the NWC of the intersection waiting to catch a southbound bus. ”

    So your windowless van is out of the shop?

  56. yoss says:

    “how good is LIncoln Park HS”

    IB program is among the best in the city among public schools (if not the best) but regular HS is mediocre. Strange because Lincoln Elementary is probably the best AA school in the city. My kid isn’t school age yet so I probably know less about schools than most on this site.

  57. Vlajos says:

    It appears to be better than the state average. 66% meet and exceed PSAE vs. state average of 51%.

    http://iirc.niu.edu/School.aspx?source=Profile&schoolID=150162990250047&level=S

  58. anon (tfo) says:

    “Strange because Lincoln Elementary is probably the best AA school in the city”

    Lincoln Elem has something like 100 kids per class; LPHS has something like 550 per class. Even if every Lincoln Elem kid went on to LPHS (v. counterfactual), they’d still be less than 20%. As it is, I’d be somewhat surprised if even 10 kids per class from Lincoln Elem have been in LPHS gen pop (ie, excluding IB and double honors and whatever other special programs).

    Do note that LPHS is going w-to-w IB starting in teh fall. This will likely affect the composition of the student body, over time.

  59. sonies says:

    but helmet, did you offer them some candy?

  60. yoss says:

    anon (tfo) – How will wall to wall IB affect composition? Will it make it more difficult in general and increase scores by weeding out underachievers? What you say about Lincoln El makes sense – I guess there are far fewer high schools relative to elementary schools.

  61. anon (tfo) says:

    “How will wall to wall IB affect composition? Will it make it more difficult in general and increase scores by weeding out underachievers?”

    Dunno, that’s why so many weasel words. But I do think it is likely to change things, as it becomes less tenable to coast thru.

  62. helmethofer says:

    “but helmet, did you offer them some candy?”

    Shut up. Actually, I was drunk stumbling out of The Store, and they flashmobbed me and kicked me in the skull repeatedly….the more likely scenario.

  63. helmethofer says:

    ” in LPHS gen pop”

    you make it sound like a prep school for County County Jail.

  64. anonny says:

    I don’t think it’s such a big deal for kids to move, as long as it’s done by around 7th grade or so. I’d of course prefer to stay put in the city from pre-k through 12, but if our kids aren’t at a private school by 6th grade or so, we’ll head for the hills. Who knows what LPHS will be like at that point, but if it we were at that point today, I’d be disinclined to stay and send my kids there. Even assuming they’ll both be IB or whatever (a big assumption), I’m not so sure I’d want them to have such a “school within a school” insular experience (I’m sure it’s great academically, but sociallly, it seems to have some drawbacks).

  65. anon (tfo) says:

    “I’m sure it’s great academically, but sociallly, it seems to have some drawbacks”

    Learn something new–Nonny puts stock in Bob’s opinion.

  66. DZ says:

    “I don’t think it’s such a big deal for kids to move, as long as it’s done by around 7th grade or so.”

    Did you ever move as a kid? Whether it’s a big deal depends on the move and the kid, I think.

  67. anonny says:

    “Did you ever move as a kid?”

    Not after second grade, but never flew either, not until 19 when I moved to another state on my own. None of the former steel/auto workers in my childhood neighborhood were offered attractive jobs in NYC, Chicago, DC, Seattle, the Bay area/SV, LA, Atlanta, Denver, Charlotte, Boston, or whatever white collar hub to which professional families might up and move. Nowadays, professionals will move at the drop of a hat (excluding, to a large extent, attorneys who practice at firms).

    “Whether it’s a big deal depends on the move and the kid, I think.”

    Of course. And it would also depend on the parents’ efforts to help the kid get plugged into a new place.

  68. Fred says:

    Many kids, myself included, go to public grade/middle schools then private high school. The opposite, too. They adapt.

  69. Bob says:

    ““I’m sure it’s great academically, but sociallly, it seems to have some drawbacks”

    Learn something new–Nonny puts stock in Bob’s opinion.”

    Not even socially. The IB program in HS can lead to burnout in undergrad. Or resenting the parents in undergrad if they think they were pushed into it.

    The IB program gives you an extra high-school diploma, so you can work an extra shift at McDonalds with it. Aside from parents who want to brag to other people their age about their kids, it is of little practical value in reality. Yeah you enter college with a head-start with all those AP credits, but you can take those classes outside of IB, too.

    I remember seeing a bunch of IB kids at my HS at graduation and thinking “wow where the hell were they the past couple years?”.

  70. CH says:

    anonny had another kid? congrats!

  71. Bob says:

    “We joke about schaumburg and the lifestyle is awful but it’s a safe place, in cook county, low crime, lots of shopping and a TON of diversity that every on CC loves so tremendously…. ”

    No what everyone here on CC, esp. in the GZ loves is walkability to a safe el stop and shopping. They state diversity to allay their white guilt. In reality in most of their neighborhoods it is people that look just like them and are of the same socioeconomic status, with a couple minorities sprinkled in to make these SWPLs feel better & inclusive. When push comes to shove (when they have kids) they’d much rather prefer a more white/asian %age suburb vs. one with real diversity, because walkability is no longer a concern to them.

  72. helmethofer says:

    “We joke about schaumburg and the lifestyle is awful…… a TON of diversity that every on CC loves so tremendously…. ”

    I went to Woodfield before Christmas a few years ago, and I thought I was in Calcutta.

  73. helmethofer says:

    ““I’m sure it’s great academically, but sociallly, it seems to have some drawbacks”

    “Socially”….what is that supposed to mean anyway? What should your little Josh or Chad be doing anyway? Following sports or mass culture (which is hip-hop)? When are you people going to learn? Nerds rule the world, and especially those that are willing to identify with the perverse machine.

    Look at Rahm Emanuel. Do you this he was socially acceptable at New Trier? He was a loser. Oprah Winfrey? abused by her illiterate uncle in Tennesse. Nate Berkus? flamer. Candid Candace the porn model? she runs “society” today in Chicago. Who says an IB type environment is bad? Sounds like a plug-in to the real world. More bizarre you are, the more you are “in” with the crowd. Guys like Southbound and JZ are always pecking around the perimeter with these types, but won’t ever break-in, truly. Everything is upside-down.

  74. gringozecarioca says:

    “anonny had another kid? congrats!”

    See if his unicorn criteria was build with forethought, or this now changes everything?

  75. homedelete says:

    “I went to Woodfield before Christmas a few years ago, and I thought I was in Calcutta.”

    Now that’s diversity! Few customers at Ikea speak English natively either.

  76. Gary Lucido says:

    I’ve always been perplexed by this so maybe someone here can explain it. Take a school like Agassiz. It is 47% low income. However, the surrounding area has a median income of about $106K. How is this possible? And don’t tell me that the income is bimodal in the area. I don’t believe that.

  77. homedelete says:

    Gary: Young single mothers have more children than older established couples, so it takes fewer younger single mothers having children to outnumber the children of older established couples. They usually have some unusual situation – living with grandma, or in a dumpy apartment owned by a relative, or with the boyfriend near work, etc.

  78. Vlajos says:

    Gary, not all the students at a given school come from the neighborhood. What’s interesting about Agassiz is that non low income students perform very well. They make up 53% of the student population and 97% meet and exceed state standards with 54% exceeding. This is pretty much as good as any top suburban school.

    In 2000, 70% of the student population was low income, now it’s 47% and declining every year. Total enrollments are at the highest level since 2004.

  79. Sabrina says:

    “It is 47% low income. However, the surrounding area has a median income of about $106K. How is this possible? And don’t tell me that the income is bimodal in the area. I don’t believe that.”

    Apartments.

    Ever check out the low income ratio of Oak Park schools? It always surprises me too.

    What is more interesting, for CPS anyway, is the number of students as you get up into the middle school. There can be 58 students in the kindergarten and by the time you get to 8th grade there are only 17. Does everyone drop out by the second or third grade? (to go private or move to the burbs?) Otherwise- why the big drop off in the elite middle schools by the time they reach 7th and 8th grade? Are they all doing what anonny is thinking of doing?

  80. Vlajos says:

    “Does everyone drop out by the second or third grade?”
    No

    “(to go private or move to the burbs?) Otherwise- why the big drop off in the elite middle schools by the time they reach 7th and 8th grade? Are they all doing what anonny is thinking of doing?”
    Yes, many do this when they know their kids won’t get into a selective enrollment HS.

  81. Russ says:

    I’ve been impressed with how well Oak Park schools perform given the income diversity. However, Oak Park does have an issue with illegal enrollment from Chicago west side. So much so, the schools have started investigating Oak Park residency of all students.

  82. Vlajos says:

    Good point Russ, Oak Park elementary district is 21% Low Income. Of non-low income 95% meet and exceed state tests and 51% exceed.

    Agassiz actually has better outcomes than Oak Park schools on an apples to apples comparison.

  83. anon (tfo) says:

    “why the big drop off in the elite middle schools by the time they reach 7th and 8th grade?”

    Sheesh. (1) the ‘name’ privates consider 5th grade an ‘entry point’, with larger class sizes. (2) the pre-HS suburbs flight (as others noted) (3) CPS ‘academic centers’ for 7th + 8th. (4) CPS ‘Middle years’ IB programs. (5) 8 years ago, many, many, many fewer people trusted their precious angels to CPS–need to see how student pops are in 6-7-8 in the *next* five years.

    ps: which are the ‘elite middle schools’???

  84. anon (tfo) says:

    “I’ve always been perplexed by this so maybe someone here can explain it. Take a school like Agassiz. It is 47% low income.”

    Dunno if specifically applicable to Agassiz, but (1) ‘low income’ is determined by application for free/reduced lunch, (2) ‘fraud’ is rampant, (3) *no one* verifies anything, (4) many schools harrange parents to submit the forms, as it means more state funding, (5) overall, ‘low income’ levels are overstates by ~25 percentage points–if Agassiz is only half as bad as the district as a whole, that’d mean 35% instead of 47%; as bad would mean under 25%, (6) everything everyone else suggested.

  85. Vlajos says:

    anon, you #5

    “8 years ago, many, many, many fewer people trusted their precious angels to CPS–need to see how student pops are in 6-7-8 in the *next* five years.”

    Is the key at this point.

  86. anon (tfo) says:

    vlajos:

    do you know which are the ‘elite middle schools’? Want to get on the list(s).

  87. Vlajos says:

    anon, lol,

    most CPS is k-8, which is smarter. Middle schools/junior as many suburbs have are awful.

  88. Vlajos says:

    junior high that is, sorry

  89. Gary Lucido says:

    “not all the students at a given school come from the neighborhood.”

    Well, I’ve wondered about that also. Is this really true? How does that work? Where do the kids come from and how do they get into that school? Can kids get into Burley, Blaine, or Bell from outside the neighborhood the same way?

  90. Vlajos says:

    “Well, I’ve wondered about that also. Is this really true?”
    Yes

    “How does that work?”
    If a school has available slots, you can apply and get in regardless of where you live

    “Where do the kids come from and how do they get into that school?”
    They can come from anywhere in Chicago, their parents fill out a 1 page form to apply to get in.

    “Can kids get into Burley, Blaine, or Bell from outside the neighborhood the same way?”
    Basically no, these schools are packed by neighborhood kids and have massive weightlists.

  91. Groove77 says:

    “Well, I’ve wondered about that also. Is this really true? How does that work? Where do the kids come from and how do they get into that school? Can kids get into Burley, Blaine, or Bell from outside the neighborhood the same way?”

    you rocking sarcasm or honestly dont know?

  92. Groove77 says:

    @ anonny,

    dooode what happened did the Parker/Latin admit not happen? or where you going the SEES route and that did not work either?

    i thought you were already set on the Parker (or was it Latin) as the school?

    “and would happily stick it out in sub-optimal quarters in some prime hood in the city with great public elementary schools”
    “but if our kids aren’t at a private school by 6th grade or so, we’ll head for the hills.”

  93. Groove77 says:

    Also any one know if Junior K, middle school, and HS is the only grades they accept at Latin/Parker?

    I though that regular K is another point too?

    *yes i know they will admit exception at any grade

  94. Gary Lucido says:

    “you rocking sarcasm or honestly dont know?”

    I sent my kids to private school and then later one daughter did the selective enrollment thing so we never needed to worry about this. Also, I have honestly never heard this discussed but figured there had to be something like that going on.

  95. anon (tfo) says:

    “Also, I have honestly never heard this discussed ”

    Doooode. Really? Didn’t know that all of attendance area CPS is (theoretically) open enrollment? So, some kid from Roseland *could* go to Blaine, and kids from way way west *do* go to (eg) Lake View HS.

    But (1) ‘full’ schools need not accept outsiders, and (2) no transportation provided, hence theoretical, among the ‘top’ elementaries. (which is another one of my long held/oft repeated maxims about CPS–so long as over ~1/2 of the kids at a AA school are non-neighborhood, school won’t get full neighborhood backing, which is, imo, necessary to make the school ‘turn’).

    HS might be a different story, but none of the AA HS’s are yet ‘good’ in the AA program (and all of the better half of ‘em have many kids not from the hood). Might change, and we’ll see if any of them turn into mostly neighborhood schools.

  96. Groove77 says:

    Nothing wrong with not knowing

    just checking for sarcasm (its tricky on the internet)

    “I sent my kids to private school and then later one daughter did the selective enrollment thing so we never needed to worry about this.”

  97. DZ says:

    “I though that regular K is another point too?”

    Doesn’t seem to be. From latin’s site http://www.latinschool.org/admissions/process (I like the “approx” 63 spaces):

    Junior Kindergarten – child must be 4 years old by September 1 to enter. Approximately 63 spaces available.
    Senior Kindergarten – grade 4: spaces based on attrition.
    grade 5: Approximately 10 spaces available.
    grades 6-8: Approximately 2 spaces per grade available.
    grade 9: Approximately 45 spaces available.
    grades 10-12: Approximately 1 space per grade available.

  98. anonny says:

    “grade 9: Approximately 45 spaces available.”

    Besides there being 18 fewer spaces than the J-K entry point, how competitive might that HS entry point be?

  99. Groove77 says:

    thanks DZ,

    you can see the CPS SEHS opening spots at the HS entry level for latin

  100. anon (tfo) says:

    “how competitive might that HS entry point be?”

    Competitive. Likely less so in any given year than, eg, Payton, but definitely competitive.

  101. DZ says:

    “how competitive might that HS entry point be?”
    “Competitive. Likely less so in any given year than, eg, Payton, but definitely competitive.”

    I’d think more people willing and able to do 4 yrs tuition than 14 years (esp when not as far along in careers at beginning of school). Maybe SEHS more of compettiive option to L/P than SEES? I don’t know. Then again, the people really eager to have their kids in L/P prob would have them in from the start.

    I will say I know someone’s kid who got into L for HS, who was a v good student but not an incredible overachiever. No major family pull. Also know someone w kid who got into L for JK this year, wo major pull.

    If at HS age, it seemed like my kid could really benefit from eg Latin (I don’t know exactly what scenario that would be but haven’t rule out), I’d think about it, whereas not even on radar now.

  102. Groove77 says:

    remember that report i sent you where it showed the amount of acceptances from the Latin/Parker to NSCP/Payton/Whitney?

    so you can see that the competition for latin’s Private is for kids that couldn’t score into a good HS

  103. anonny says:

    “Also know someone w kid who got into L for JK this year, wo major pull.”

    Hmm. Is that kid the younger sibling of a current L student? If not, then the someone you know (i) actually has a great deal of pull or (ii) the only pull he or she has involves your leg. Or by “for JK this year,” did you mean the 2012-13 school year?

  104. anon (tfo) says:

    “If not, then the someone you know ”

    you forgot “or (iii) fills a demographic category that my kid doesn’t”. From their site:

    “Latin School intentionally seeks to admit students and families of various identities and backgrounds, working to integrate them into the vibrant culture of the school”

    http://www.latinschool.org/diversity

  105. anonny says:

    “you forgot ‘or (iii) fills a demographic category that my kid doesn’t’.”

    Are they notifying diversity applicants earlier than all other non-sibling applicants?

  106. DZ says:

    “you forgot “or (iii) fills a demographic category that my kid doesn’t”. From their site:”

    You mean nonny should have played up his working class rust belt never got on an airplane roots, not the 1 of 100 biglaw associates’ kids applying this year.

    nonny, there is a soupcon of doubt as my info is at the moment second or thirdhand, but I am still pretty sure.

  107. DZ says:

    “Are they notifying diversity applicants earlier than all other non-sibling applicants?”

    You have not yet heard? My inference was you’d heard no.

  108. anonny says:

    “nonny, there is a soupcon of doubt as my info is at the moment second or thirdhand, but I am still pretty sure.”

    That he or she has been admitted for 2013-14? The only reason I’m surprised (or questioning the extent or anatomical focus of anyone’s pull) is because notifications weren’t to happen for another couple of weeks.

  109. DZ says:

    “That he or she has been admitted for 2013-14? The only reason I’m surprised (or questioning the extent or anatomical focus of anyone’s pull) is because notifications weren’t to happen for another couple of weeks.”

    Yeah, I have no doubt about no older sib, and v v little doubt about lack of pull (not legacy, not donor, etc.). Before you said anything, I would have said 1-2 percent chance I was wrong about being admitted already. Updating w your info, maybe there is 10-15 percent chance I’m wrong.

    But you seem to be behaving as if you’ve ruled it out for this year, which seems odd if you haven’t heard.

  110. DZ says:

    Also, no doubt that 2013-14 JK is the year in question.

  111. anonny says:

    “But you seem to be behaving as if you’ve ruled it out for this year, which seems odd if you haven’t heard.”

    Nope, haven’t heard. That should happen after the first week of March (I say “should,” because all previously received communications notwithstanding, the fact that you’re 85-90 percent certain that you know that at least one non-sibling applicant has been notified gives me pause). As they say: hope for the best but plan for the worst. Either way, whether it’s P, L or otherwise, we’ll stay in our current place for at least one and as many as two more years and, in any event, the location parameters of our next place would expand (beyond Lincoln and Ogden) to encompass, at the most, Alcott and Nhorst.

  112. Groove77 says:

    “in any event, the location parameters of our next place would expand (beyond Lincoln and Ogden) to encompass, at the most, Alcott and Nhorst.”

    is this because the new found income of not having to pay a private tuition? and the Alcoot and nhorst have cheap stock so you can get a larger nest?

  113. DZ says:

    “the fact that you’re 85-90 percent certain that you know that at least one non-sibling applicant has been notified gives me pause”

    I’ve been truthful (in terms of what I think I know) in everything I have reported on this topic, though you should note that I was also 85-90 percent certain lil nonny had been turned down.

  114. Groove77 says:

    ““the fact that you’re 85-90 percent certain that you know that at least one non-sibling applicant has been notified gives me pause”

    I’ve been truthful (in terms of what I think I know) in everything I have reported on this topic”

    DZ, do you think the financial aid admits are early for forecasting or reporting reasons?

    *sorry to assume the folk you know are the unwashed poor

  115. DZ says:

    “sorry to assume the folk you know are the unwashed poor”

    Hey, we’re in the top cps tier now! But year, I would think they would prioritize those they really wanted, incl the most impressive of the poors that they want to offer aid to. It’s like college, if you don’t get in early, is there even point in going?

  116. JMM says:

    I got a kick out of the private school angst above but you can trust that Latin has not notified non-affiliated families if they have said their date is a certain date. They notify the same way and time every year and it is not bifrucated (except for affiliated familes which they clearly disclose). Depending on how connected your pre-school is, the head of school can confirm that as he/she probably knows everyone in admissions in addition to a large chunk of the trustees. My cousin’s children went to a pre-school where some half the class goes on to Latin (or other similar schools). They cannot let one family know and not others, there would be a riot on Dearborn the next day. I feel bad for the parents who have to go through the process, the suburbs offer a much more humane approach to this type of thing.

  117. homedelete says:

    jmm expressing sympathy? that’s a first !

  118. anon (tfo) says:

    “expressing sympathy?”

    Sympathy for those who “have to” go thru the private school application process. I, too, have mucho sympathy for those who have to go through completely voluntary tribulations.

  119. homedelete says:

    “I feel bad for the parents who have to go through the process, the suburbs offer a much more humane approach to this type of thing.”

    That quote above is legitimate sympathy. He honestly feels bad. That’s a first on this board. You know how those upper class WASP families are, they never show any emotion at all. JMM must be losing it in his old age.

  120. DZ says:

    “expressing sympathy?”
    “Sympathy for those who “have to” go thru the private school application process.”

    And at the same time not so subtly disparaging nonny for having made the wrong choices on preschool and housing location.

    Still he’s a good CC character, esp in combination w the right other characters. I also finally realized one of the nice blvd houses is a Maher (by reading the plaque my son has jumped off prob 20 times while I’ve been w him).

  121. JMM says:

    I think paying $25,000 for a *half day* of songs, coloring and ABCs is on the silly side, yes. And that goes for folks who can still afford a nice house and all the other trappings which, though I would have thought otherwise, is not always the case.

    After all, $25,000 is taxes on your GW Maher masterpiece and its all you can eat at the top ranked elementary, which you can walk to, that feeds the top ranked high school, which you can also walk to. Chicago metro has good public schools. It’s a gift other areas do not offer.

  122. Bob says:

    “That quote above is legitimate sympathy. He honestly feels bad. That’s a first on this board. You know how those upper class WASP families are, they never show any emotion at all. JMM must be losing it in his old age.”

    It’s like JMM got stuck out here whilst on a field trippe from ol’ New Englande and never made it back home. Or maybe he was sent here in an attempt to set up a polo club.

  123. Bob says:

    Anyhow on a related note to the topic, great article in Bloomberg Businessweek issue that just dropped about the recent run up in house prices. Mostly centered on Phoenix but mentions the PE money being used here in Chicago as well. Yeah this couldn’t possibly not end well.

  124. helmethofer says:

    What’s the deal about “Ogden”? I keep hearing about it. I exited off the Ogden ramp off the Kennedy recently, and voila, there was the Ogden Intl. school right across from what looks like an African-American CHA building. Sign said “west campus” 6-12. This is some elite school? Please advise. thanks.

  125. helmethofer says:

    “You mean nonny should have played up his working class rust belt never got on an airplane roots…”

    I wonder if that would work? Probably not. The diversity they are looking for is the racist-based kind, based on skin color and rural and lower-middle class whites are excluded from consideration. Nobody helps lower-middle class whites in Chicagoland, or anywhere, everything is severly stacked against them. Hispanics are getting the jobs based on taking slave labor wages and (lack of) benefits, blacks get all the sympathy and community-based hand outs, the liberal back-stabber SWPL whites (ironically what annony aspires to be) won’t help out their own people, and the Jews? Forget it, they hate middle-class whites and want to keep them down and replace them with immigrants from everywhere but Europe.

  126. Bob says:

    “the liberal back-stabber SWPL whites (ironically what annony aspires to be) won’t help out their own people”

    SWPL whites, for the most part, are either going to remain childless or are just in the city for a transitory phase before fleeing to the suburbs, or equally likely these days, a more southern economically prosperous city like Dallas (although the SWPLs would vastly prefer Austin as it has critical mass of their groupthink).

    For all of the SWPL preaching about anti-racism, I find it hilarious the examples I see of an AA nanny walking a stroller of non-blk babies very rare indeed (I think I’ve seen two examples in my years here & one was an African immigrant so not AA). You would think there would be an ample supply of affordable such unskilled labor from neighborhoods easily accessible from public transportation. But let’s be honest about the SWPLs: deep down they know the reality & that they are so scared of being accused of.

    Blacks in Chicago do get all the sympathy and blacks & whites in southern states like Georgia really do think (and for good reason) white people up here are dumb and pushovers. In towns in the south the races actually get along better & eat at the same tables in restaurants as the perpetual govt dependent class is much smaller as a % of the metro area and producers can’t be cowed into having it become a larger percent of the population due to “slavery/jim crow”

    Chicago’s south side is perpetually in a sad state of affairs with the AA and PR neighborhood(s). A single mother can crank out babies and get a standard of living of ~40k/year with our generous benefits (and remaining unmarried is part of the key to this system exploit) and people wonder why things don’t get better as the years go by.

    They need to start bulldozing the vacant buildings in neighborhoods like Englewood, Garfield Park & Austin and scaling back the section 8–let mother nature reclaim it and revert to urban prairie much like Detroit. I love it when SWPLs call my ideas eugenics as well. Many are so absurdly stupid they’ve been cowed into the belief, via their white guilt and events many decades or centuries ago, that expecting people to provide for themself & their own offspring is eugenics. When in reality this very safety net breeds these murderers.

    At least one of the perps that shot that girl at Obama’s inauguration I’ve already shown lives in that CHA highrise Lake Parc place. Yup a known gang member, from a single parent household (not confirmed but lets play the odds) should’ve never been born getting free housing & everything else coming up. Now that girl is dead and we have to house him for life and the newsmedia talks quite a bit about guns but never mentions the other ingredients to the murder cake recipe.

    But the SWPLs need not be bothered with inconvenient truths such as this Jon Stewart & Stephen Colbert say if they only ban the guns and give them more opportunity (mayor Daley wanted to give them free broadband lol) things will get better.

  127. Bob says:

    (and let’s be honest: the SWPLs have never went to Oakland or Bronzeville–their experience is wondering what neighborhood it is while on lakeshore)

  128. Sabrina says:

    “I exited off the Ogden ramp off the Kennedy recently, and voila, there was the Ogden Intl. school right across from what looks like an African-American CHA building. Sign said “west campus” 6-12. This is some elite school? Please advise. thanks.”

    http://www.ogdenschool.org/pages/Ogden_Intl_School_Chicago

  129. homedelete says:

    my goodness, these rants are so tedious and unrelenting. I can’t take it any more.

  130. Sabrina says:

    Me neither HD.

    If you want to talk indepth about CPS- go to the blogs on that subject.

    Thanks!

  131. Vlajos says:

    I think HD was referring to the racism here.

  132. Groove77 says:

    ” Sabrina (February 26, 2013, 8:44 am)
    Me neither HD.
    If you want to talk indepth about CPS- go to the blogs on that subject. ”

    F’ing comedy gold!!!!!!!!!!!!

    just spit my water onto my now broken keyboard

  133. Groove77 says:

    “I think paying $25,000 for a *half day* of songs, coloring and ABCs is on the silly side, yes. ”

    thats only 25k for 14 years (hopefully ten as SEHS is in play)

    but your 25k in property taxes is FOREVER even after you are pay 40k for college and even after your kids have kids.

    Also which do you think will grow faster considering the time/situation we are i now, property taxes or private school tuition?

  134. helmethofer says:

    “I think HD was referring to the racism here.”

    LOL!! You’re quite good at it, Vlajos. Let’s hear you spew some more negative comments about Glenview.

  135. helmethofer says:

    “I think paying $25,000 for a *half day* of songs, coloring and ABCs is on the silly side, yes. ”

    You’re paying for the connections. If you don’t have them, good luck. You don’t think Obama, Rahm, Lisa Madigan etc. got to where they are on merit alone, do you?

  136. anon (tfo) says:

    “but your 25k in property taxes is FOREVER even after you are pay 40k for college and even after your kids have kids.”

    That’s why (ok, one reason why) you sell your NT house and move into a condo when the kids are out of the house. Also, helps keep fresh blood moving into NT, so less chance of popular uprising against expensive schools.

  137. Groove77 says:

    ” You’re quite good at it, Vlajos. Let’s hear you spew some more negative comments about Glenview.”

    @helmuthoffer,

    you do know, your a scumbag bottom feeder, right? If you havent realized how much of a punkazz scared little beyotch you are, please let me take the time to tell you now.

    you sit behind a keyboard in your mommys basement spewing garbage to get reactions out of people on the internet in hopes to get somebody’s anybody’s attention. you are probably 300lbs and havent been laid and most likely drank 3 sodas since breakfast.

    in reality you are to afraid to say your crazy out loud in public as you would be confronted be a gentleman like me. I would love the chance to be in your presence as you try to mouth out the crap you do.

    but again you are nothing but a bottom feeding scumbag and will never amout to more than the piece of shyte you are.

  138. helmethofer says:

    Shut up Groove, you should just be banned. Don’t waste your breath on moronic rants, OK?

  139. Groove77 says:

    “Shut up Groove, you should just be banned. Don’t waste your breath on moronic rants, OK?”

    what you doing around lunch time today? I know i am free.

  140. anon (tfo) says:

    “Me neither HD.

    If you want to talk indepth about CPS- go to the blogs on that subject.

    Thanks!”

    Nice validation of the Ustasi, Sabrina. Boo-yah!

  141. helmethofer says:

    “what you doing around lunch time today? I know i am free.”

    Not only am I smarter than you, I was a HS wrestler. So, let’s meet at the parking lot at Autozone at 7123 W. Grand. That way, after I’m done kicking your lethargic ass, your wife can pick you up from the lock-up at Grand & Central, make it easy for you.

  142. Groove77 says:

    @helmethofer (scumbag)

    hey how about we do this beat down, oops lunch meeting sooner. its starting to snow and i would prefer not to get stuck in traffic on the way back.

    “Groove77 (February 26, 2013, 10:38 am)
    what you doing around lunch time today? I know i am free.”

  143. Groove77 says:

    “your wife can pick you up from the lock-up at Grand & Central”

    and your assuming that i dont know anyone working there huh.

    but if your game i can be there in 15 minutes

  144. helmethofer says:

    I’m going to enjoy pressing your bloated swollen face into the pavement.

  145. Groove77 says:

    “I’m going to enjoy pressing your bloated swollen face into the pavement.”

    i am leaving in 15 minutes. (so 20 minutes)

    look for a black hyundai genesis

  146. Groove77 says:

    “i am leaving in 15 minutes. (so 20 minutes)”

    sorry meant levain in 5 minutes be there in 20 minutes

  147. helmethofer says:

    Better tell your boss that you aren’t coming back to work…

  148. homedelete says:

    I can’t decide if this interlude is hilarious or moronic. I laughed though and I’m not sure why.

  149. helmethofer says:

    It’s moronic for sure, look who is leading it.

  150. Groove77 says:

    You piece of shyte I am here right now. All I see is a silver civic an a Mexican Chevy van.
    Where the Fuq are you you little punk.

    F’ing roads are slippery and I did drive all they way here for you to punk out. You got 10 minutes to get here you beyotch arsenal scumbag

  151. Groove77 says:

    You stupid little beyotch I should have known you would have plunked out.

    I fuqing can’t believe I drove in this weather for a dang scumbag like you and you didn’t even show up you scumbag beyotch

  152. helmethofer says:

    Oh yeah? I’m standing right outside right now with my forearms crossed in front of my silver Nissan Maxima (w/ the sports packge). Where are you?

  153. Groove77 says:

    You fake arse punk,

    If you are there tell me the color of the three cars that are on the grand ave side of the auto zone you scumbag

  154. Phil says:

    It’s moronic.

    Might as well tell Brad F. to grab his tennis racket and kill two birds with one stone.

  155. Groove77 says:

    Also tell my why the same cop has slowly driven past my car three times? I bet you called them from you r mom’s basement you little piece of shyte

  156. helmethofer says:

    holy crap Groove!!….today really is your lucky day. I’m at Autozone at Grand and Central Park, that one. Google gave me the wrong address. I’m at the Autozone at 3577 W Grand Ave, Chicago, IL, near Jimmy’s Red Hots. I guess you get to keep your teeth for another day, you are one lucky little weasel.

  157. sonies says:

    oh man, ^ LOL at this stuff

  158. Southbound says:

    Oh so now Helmuthead’s the self proclaimed Chicago expert got lost on his way to the address he specified? The South Afrikan expat now claiming to be a former high school wrestler (do they even rassle in your apartheid minded part of S Afrika Dann?) & is threatening to meet up and beat up Groove – just not today? I couldn’t make this s–t up if I tried.

    And the other member of cc’s anti abortion couple spews “…Yup a known gang banger from a single parent household who should have never been born…” So abortion IS permissable but only for ….? What Bubba are there no single parent households in your part of Appalachia? But they’re better at parenting outcomes because of inherent genetic superiority huh? Hypocrite!

    Then Bob posted “.. just fill in any nonsensical rant here instead of me repeating his vile lies & spewings..” Wrong again BubbaBob you stupid ignoramus.

  159. helmethofer says:

    Shut up Southbound, just because you were rejected and black-balled from a fraternity….aren’t you a little advanced in years to still hold grudges?

    “What Bubba are there no single parent households in your part of Appalachia?”

    Poverty rates are high in WV, but the levels of violent crime, rape, etc. are far less than in black areas of the USA. Explain that. PS It’s illegal to marry first cousins in KY: http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/human-services/state-laws-regarding-marriages-between-first-cousi.aspx

    You’ll notice from that list Southbound, that it is legal to marry a first cousins in NY, NJ. CT, FL where there are high concentrations of Ashkenazi, the most inbred people in the USA.

  160. helmethofer says:

    “Oh so now Helmuthead’s the self proclaimed Chicago expert got lost on his way to the address he specified?”

    Exactly. I drove out from Bucktown. I knew that there was an Autozone at Grand & Central near the jail where Groove was going to end up after I pummeled his face in. I wanted to make it easy for him to show up, and then get his butt kicked in. I confused Central Park and Central. I was just at Jimmy’ Red Hots and that Central Park Autozone recently. I honestly didn’t think enough about 7123 W. Grand being a different Autozone on the west side from Google. No way I could’ve made it out that far west that quickly. So, today really was Groove’s lucky horseshoe day.

    I have decided now, after some reflection, that I will not re-arrange Groove’s face.

    It just wouldn’t be right to send a man home to his wife & kids with a bloodied face/broken jaw. So, I’m now going to to take the high-road that I didn’t earlier today. It’s Lent and I’m not going to be a party to beating another human being’s face up.

  161. Inquisitive says:

    I must say, helmethofer that was a pretty bad and convenient excuse (wrong autozone) for not showing up..

  162. Fred says:

    Damnit, I was really hoping this p1ssing contest would happen once and for all so we could go back to actually discussing real estate. The more and more time you guys fight, the less and less time I spend here. I suppose my employer thanks you.

  163. Southbound says:

    Sissy HH posted ” “I honestly didn’t think…” Only honest thing you ever posted here imho. My only grudge is against lying hypocrites – oh that describe you – it’s easy to confuse 7100 West with 5600 W for pu–ies who immigrated here from the Saharan plains huh? Since I want to address your lies I repeat I quit frat during pledge phase because I learned many of those frat bros thought & acted like Bob. Not that Bob isn’t happy with being an alcoholic woman hating lying bigot – just wasn’t the kind of people I choose to spend any time with. You are a clown!

  164. sonies says:

    This is a good example of how not seeing any sunshine for weeks at a time makes people crazy

  165. anon (tfo) says:

    “a pretty bad and convenient excuse (wrong autozone)”

    Every fricking little gangster wannabe in Chicago knows the difference b/t 7200W and 3600W. And none of *them* would hold themselves out as experts on much.

  166. helmethofer says:

    “I must say, helmethofer that was a pretty bad and convenient excuse (wrong autozone) for not showing up.”

    “Only honest thing you ever posted here imho.”

    I was there, willing and ready.

  167. helmethofer says:

    Bullcrap, how many Autozones would anyone think there’d be W.Grand in Chicago? I was at the one near Jimmy’s this week. Do it yourself, google: autozone grand chicago then look at the map and you see Central (Park). I cut and pasted it, whatever…. Point now is, that I am not going to re-arrange anyone’s face, because I am a gentlemen, and Groove gets to go home unbloodied to his family.

  168. Groove77 says:

    “helmethofer (February 26, 2013, 11:12 am)
    Not only am I smarter than you, I was a HS wrestler. So, let’s meet at the parking lot at Autozone at 7123 W. Grand.”

    What a bunch of BS, from the biggest scumbag here

    *like you couldnt google the address that YOU posted.
    *the fact you had to google it in the first place is sad Mr. i know chicago
    *its not like monteclare is a former jewish hood and it would cause you a headache

    your just a punk hiding in your moms basement whacking off to the sear bra catalog. go have another mountain dew and ask your mom to wash your skeet sock its getting too stiff.

    its sad as i had to call my guy to see if there was a call to the police on me, the cop that passed me a few times followed me for about a mile. sad that you need to call the police on me. just a sad scum bag.

    you a sad little human being and thats saying too much. well at least now ever one here not only see your a low -life bottom feeder they also now know your a coward and best of all learned that you really are not a chicagoan if you really could get central park and central mixed OH WAIT it was by HARLEM anyways you toadstool. and the fact you cant beleive there is two auto zones on grand, come on duchebaag grand ave is nothing but auto, body, tire, auto glass shops.

    *oh wait wait and wait !!!!!!!!!! the best part i for got to mention this gave auto zone east of jimmy’s a call. nobody saw a silver maxima with a scum bag standing outside.
    Now before you BS you way out of this one, trust me all it would take is my smile and a $100 for the puerto rican girl working there to review the security cameras for me.

  169. Bob says:

    Southbound just because you were kicked out of a frat during rush does not mean that people in the frat hate women. That is a mental rationalization effete males such as yourself make to cope with being booted expeditiously from the greek system.

  170. tone says:

    No Case Schiller discussion?

  171. Southbound says:

    Bob you greek style lover you – ironic that you project ‘effete maleness’ on me. Still no long term relationship with a woman or kids for you or Dann huh? Were you too a wrestler in high school? Given what floats your boats you both must have loved all that intimate contact with other sweaty males? I quit your greek system of affiliating in an organization primarily comprised of douche bag, women hating men bonding over alcohol – that doesn’t give you license to re-write my history. Not that I care what you think or post you lying douche bag!
    I’m going back to handling real estate matters while you and Dann can go back to pulling your puds.

  172. Southbound says:

    HelmutHeadHofer/DeanOlds posted “…because I am a gentleman…” Oops one posting of truth was your limit – you are clearly back to posting complete BS. I don’t know you (thank God for that) but I am absolutely certain no one that does know you would ever confuse your traits with those of a gentleman.

  173. Bob says:

    Southbound loves to imagine other guys single because deep down he holds a hope that he can get them. he does not understand most guys strongly prefer the opposite gender & do not deviate from this preference like he does.

  174. anon (tfo) says:

    “most guys strongly prefer”

    Dude, you’re hanging out with some pretty bi-curious guys if that’s all the stronger statement you can make.

  175. homedelete says:

    Bob strongly prefers miller high life but he’ll occasionally drink an amstel light or a zima. Or a fine sauvignon blanc with his younger artist buddies who live at Belmont and Clark and have lots of friends named Tina.

  176. anon (tfo) says:

    “Bob strongly prefers miller high life but he’ll occasionally drink an amstel light or a zima.”

    Bob still has a stash of Zima?!??!!! Awesome!

  177. homedelete says:

    ” Let’s just say it is known some guys rush thinking there is more going on than appears. ”

    And you have personal knowledge of it too! The hazing is the best part, right? Are you the maine east soccer coach? That’s who you are!

  178. homedelete says:

    South side Irish, they’re the worst! Ship ‘em off to South Bend for all I care, let them. If this were 1890 you’re damn right I’d have a “NO IRISH NEED APPLY” in the window of my shop!

  179. DZ says:

    “he isn’t much of a success in life after going to a lower tier law school and realizing he’s not going to make partner and give his family the lifestyle he dreamed of.”

    Does bob or hd make more money? Sincere Q.

  180. homedelete says:

    2013 brought me a new employment situation and lets just say I’m gonna be OK. but do I make more than Bob? I’m not gonna play that game. I don’t get into pissing contests and especially not With Bob.

  181. homedelete says:

    bob don’t take it personally, I’m not trying to smear you. everybody’s posts have a ton. anon is a know it all. jmm is a snob. groove is of the streets. I have a huge chip on my shoulder. HUGE. your posts regardless of your orientation have a tone that’s a bit light in the timberlands. it’s just a persona and probably not even real. hahjaa

  182. homedelete says:

    a ‘tone’ not a ton

  183. Sabrina says:

    “No Case Schiller discussion?”

    tone: we rarely discuss Case Schiller. A few years ago some people would post it in a thread but it’s 3 months old – so not exactly forward looking data. Chicago continues to lag the other major cities in price gains though.

    Everyone on here would rather just insult each other instead of talking about real estate.

  184. helmethofer says:

    I think it’s crazy that people think Bob would be a homosexual. Groove, myself, Bob, JMM, and G are probably the most obviously non-homo regulars on this website. Everyone else is questionable, imho.

    Southbound is a ding-dong. He’s a Quinn (a homo) wannabe, the type of loser Chicagoan that represents the decline of the City of Big Shoulders. The Southbound legacy is right here in black and white, his baby-boom generation: http://illinoispolicy.org/blog/blog.asp?ArticleSource=5503

    He sent his kids to “Notre Dame” but he’s pro-abortion? What a tool of his generation. There’s not a doubt in my mind that his kids are the ones leading ND to its final doom as a Catholic institution. Duke, Vanderbilt, et al were once tied to Christian principles (Duke has a chapel), but no more…. sucker fools like Southbound, who are truly led around by people who mock him, are the types who follow along, like lemmings, to lead society into the State of the State we’re in today (i.e. bankruptcy, vicious violent crime, abortion, poverty, illegitimacy, etc.) He’s a clueless follower.

    Southbound likes to brag about his “family and kids” because he protests too much. It’s his cover. Who else used a “family and kids” to bludgeon a single person with? A closet homo, that’s who.

  185. DZ says:

    “I don’t get into pissing contests and especially not With Bob.”

    I think you kinda did (“2013 brought me a new employment situation and lets just say I’m gonna be OK”) though I’m not sure claimed future income will cut it.

    I say you two meet at the autozone on grand w your W2s and any other income you want to document. It’s pretty close in my mind. Deciding factor may be whether bob gets to count his mileage reimbursment (the path to true wealth) as income.

  186. homedelete says:

    I make shit. I’m a chancery lawyer, remember? I work hard and make everyone else money but I make peanuts. My wife is the Biglaw partner. But the commute from long grove to Wacker drive is getting tedious for her so I’m only a hop, skip and a jump away from becoming a stay at home dad. She makes all the money in my household. Got a problem with that, huh?

  187. homedelete says:

    Income not equity partner

  188. tone says:

    Sabrina, do you think the latest CS is an aberration?

  189. Groove77 says:

    “helmethofer (February 27, 2013, 12:15 am)
    Bullshit, you idiot.”

    you are a scumbag and as we all found out a HUGE puzzzy on top of that.

    i am done with your weak pathetic arse

  190. homedelete says:

    THREAD CLOSED.

  191. gringozecarioca says:

    “with foot long schlongs.”

    I love when Bob uses Yiddish… Only thing better is when Helmut sings the theme song from Laverne and Shirley…

  192. Gary Lucido says:

    Just did my February update: http://www.chicagonow.com/getting-real/2013/03/february-record-home-sales-chicago/

    Compared to a 28 day February 2012 closings were up 19.7%. The IAR will probably compare to the 29 day month and will also be comparing preliminary 2013 numbers to final 2012 numbers. Consequently they will probably report a mere 9.8% growth.

    My post also shows the trends in contract activity, inventory, and distressed sales.

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