Get A Pre-War 3-Bedroom For Under $300K: 421 W. Melrose in East Lakeview

This 3-bedroom in The Eddystone at 421 W. Melrose in East Lakeview has been on the market since November 2012. [editor's correction- it is NOT the penthouse.]

The Eddystone was built in 1928 just before the Great Depression hit and halted construction of the luxury apartment buildings going up along the lake front. I believe this building was supposed to have a twin but the Crash of 1929 hit so they didn’t build the second building.

While there is no square footage listed, it has a separate dining room along with the generous room sizes usually associated with vintage units of this era.

Some of its original features remain including crown molding, arched doorways, built-ins and herringbone floors.

The listing says the unit has new windows.

It has North, South and West views.

While it doesn’t have central air, the unit does have a rare in-unit washer/dryer that the listing says was grandfathered in.

Parking is rental in the neighborhood.

The listing says this unit is in the Nettlehorst school district.

It was recently reduced $26,000 to $299,000.

Is this a deal for the space even with the $1204 a month assessment?

Brad Lippitz at Prudential Rubloff has the listing. See the pictures here.

Unit #14A: 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, no square footage listed

  • Sold in May 1989 for $188,000
  • Originally listed in November 2012 for $325,000
  • Reduced
  • Currently listed at $299,000
  • Assessments of $1204 a month (includes gas, doorman)
  • Taxes of $4492
  • No central air- window units only
  • In-unit washer/dryer
  • Rental parking nearby
  • Bedroom #1: 17×12
  • Bedroom #2: 14×12
  • Bedroom #3: 8×14
  • Dining room: 11×14
  • Living room: 21×13

67 Responses to “Get A Pre-War 3-Bedroom For Under $300K: 421 W. Melrose in East Lakeview”

  1. Omg those floors-beautiful!!! Someone could really make this beautiful quite easily, looks to be mostly cosmetic work needed, although it’s livable as is. The area is wonderful too. I like it. If anything it looks a little dark but may just be the photos if it has N, S, & W exposure.

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  2. “This penthouse 3-bedroom in The Eddystone …”

    How do you figure that this is a penthouse? The building looks to have more than 14 floors (and I’ve seen other units with higher #s…

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  3. It’s about $2670 a month to live in this dark and narrow condo with AC window units, and then have to pay more for parking. Fail.

    This place looks cramped even without any staging. At least it has the “highly coveted grandfathered in-unit washer/dryer!” Hilarious!

    The ridiculous assessments are what kills it. They resale value tries to offset that but still falls short. To put things in perspective, you can buy a much nicer city condo for $450k to $500k with reasonable assessments and taxes and still play less per month than this place, AND get a fatter tax refund for writing off more of your mortgage interest. And notice how I said “city condo” — NOT single family home in a suburb. No need to start going down that road again.

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  4. “To put things in perspective, you can buy a much nicer city condo for $450k to $500k with reasonable assessments and taxes and still play less per month than this place, AND get a fatter tax refund for writing off more of your mortgage interest.”

    this is really the problem here. nice building but why piss away all that money in assessments when you wont be getting any of it back in the form of principal repayment or a tax break.

    plus, no parking is really a deal killer in ELV, imo. i live there and cant imagine not having a garage.

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  5. “you can buy a much nicer city condo for $450k to $500k with reasonable assessments and taxes and still play less per month than this place, AND get a fatter tax refund for writing off more of your mortgage interest”

    Not denying that it’s ideal to allocate more each month toward a mortgage payment than an assessment payment (interest deduction and, in theory, building equity), but I these assessments aren’t exactly unreasonable. Compare apples to apples: assessments on a typical 1,400-1,700 sq ft unit in an elevator building (in LP/ELV) with a doorman are going to run between $1,000-1,200/mo, plus parking (typically available in the building, something this building, as with many pre-war properties, lacks, though at least they typically include the heat, unlike post-war condos, e.g., on Lakeview Ave). Assessments on walk-ups of a similar sized unit are typically in the $300-400 range. That extra $600+ covers not only the elevator and doorman, but also greater maintenance/building engineer coverage, and all typically have both onsite management as well as full blown off-site management. Places with $400/mo assessments are on the minimalist management program and receive much less cleaning/routine repairs, etc. (or worse, are self-managed). I rented in an old building that has very high assessments, but the staff cleaned the common areas every single day, and were always fixing or tending to something. We now own in a place with $400 assessments and, while we do utilize the services of an outside management company, we’re definetely doing things on the cheap. Granted, I’m much happier writing a $400 check every month than $1,400. But there’s a very real difference in terms of quality and care.

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  6. Oh jesus the assessment whiners are out in force again

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  7. At first I thought good price for a three bed….I love vintage but wow 21 by 13 living room, that was the size of my lil’ one bedroom condo’s living room in Beverly..and the room was laid out much nicer with better windows. This place is very narrow and dark, and yes, the assessments are killing it.

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  8. Sonies – I’ll take my chances on a newer construction walk up with $200 HOA fees than this guaranteed money-suck.

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  9. Lovely built-ins and floors. Love the arches and elegance of this type of building. The dark appearance is due the lack of lamps and the unprofessional photos. Shooting a photo right toward a bright window makes everything in front of the window look dark.
    No parking included and window air conditioners would kill a sale, even without factoring in a big assessment.

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  10. I agree with Violet that this place is probably not nearly as dark and cramped as the photos make it look. I actually think the room sizes are pretty decent, although the kitchen looks god awful. I have been in another unit in this building (several years ago) that had a lot of work put into it – it was gorgeous.

    If the assessments cover heat and/or cable, I think it’s not too bad of a deal.

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  11. Posters may be correct that the photography is not doing this unit justice..which is too bad, just from the looks of it there is a lot to like. I do love the bathrooms and that subway tile, and yes the floors are great and the arched doorways. I know I am a fireplace fanatic but I can’t believe that an old building wouldn’t have one in each unit and it would make the living room look less boxy. The one bedroom is really small I wonder if it would hurt resale to make this a 2 bedroom unit instead?

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  12. “If the assessments cover heat and/or cable”

    Listing sez they cover heat, at least.

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  13. Yeah, the listing also says there’s a 1 car garage. The whole thing is a little confusing – Sabrina’s notes say the assessment covers gas (which may or may not include heat generally); I can’t find anything in the listing specifically describing what the assessment covers, but the rubloff layout is not very intuitive (for me anyway).

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  14. ” the rubloff layout is not very intuitive”

    They need to update their style from circa 2005.

    redfin sez:

    •Includes Heat, Includes Water, Includes Gas, Includes Common Insurance, Includes Security, Includes Doorman, Includes Exercise Facilities, Includes Exterior Maintenance, Includes Scavenger, Includes Snow Removal

    http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/421-W-Melrose-St-60657/unit-14A/home/13374335/mred-08279820

    but we still dont know if that is really accurate.

    If you do click thru to the RF listing, check out the ‘recently sold’ at the bottom; bigger, better view, no kitchen, but only $230k. Also, listing agrees with Heat included and sez cable included, too (maybe cable is opt in??).

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  15. Thanks for the link anon – I agree 16c has much better bones, and it has the fireplace mitch is jonesing for (although clearly deco only). Looks like the requirements re financing might have depressed the price. I would love to see what the place looks like after rehab.

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  16. so you say “To put things in perspective, you can buy a much nicer city condo for $450k to $500k with reasonable assessments and taxes and still play less per month than this place”

    how much do you think a larger 3/2 LSD condo should be worth? At least this one has some vintage character if you like that sort of thing. Then again If i lived on LSD, i would want a lake view… but yeah the asking price is not unreasonable

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  17. Very reasonably priced. The challenge is the parking off site but that is standard for many people east of Broadway. Minimal changes/upgrades and low profile window units would add a lot to updating the unit. I would have to see the actual space to comment on the lighting.

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  18. Violet,
    i love this place too, its awesome and who doesnt love plastered arches. and this price is great too!

    the down side is its a bit compartmentalized, which i like usually, but the width of the rooms make it a bit more cramped, and will add to light not flowing room to room.

    “Violet (March 1, 2013, 12:16 pm)
    Lovely built-ins and floors. Love the arches and elegance of this type of building.”

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  19. This is not a penthouse, even though it is a very large and very beautiful apartment. I get annoyed by real estate agents who refer to ordinary top-floor apartments with no outdoor space or private elevator stop as “penthouses”. This building HAS a real penthouse, featured on this site before, which is huge, larger than any other unit in the building, and has double height ceilings. This has to be on the floor just under the penthouse level, and it’s the same floorplan as the others on its tier.

    I have always loved this building, but it is another high-maintenance building with costs that will only increase with utility rates, which I am not expecting will stay level. The price seems reasonable for the space and the beauty of the place, as well as the prime neighborhood, even though the kitchen could use some help.

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  20. The maintenance covers heat, snow removal and all other common maintenance, plus a very high level of service- there’s a 24 hour desk, which costs money.

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  21. Laura, larger condo boards can negotiate bulk, fixed, and reduced rate utility contracts, actually saving money and reducing their cost over time

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  22. Also since utilities in Chicago are no longer monopolies, you have a lot more leverage in negotiations than you used to

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  23. Laura (or others),

    You seem to know a lot about the high-rise buildings on the north side. What buildings would you recommend if you were looking for a 3+ bedroom with parking and elevator, at the sub-$4000/month price point? (ie., $4000 includes mortgage+assessment, assume 20% down).

    Thanks!

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  24. “You seem to know a lot about the high-rise buildings on the north side. What buildings would you recommend if you were looking for a 3+ bedroom with parking and elevator, at the sub-$4000/month price point?”

    That’s pretty broad. Any northside hoods in particular? Do schools matter? Must you have an elevator? By “3+”, I gather that you want something that has at least 3 good bedrooms (i.e., a master and two real bedrooms, not a thrid “bedroom” that’s directly adjacent to the living room), is that the case? Must you have a third bath and/or powder room, or are just two toilets enough? Do you need charm? Besides your downpayment, will you have anything left for updates, or does it need to be move-in ready?

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  25. sonies, I’m well aware of the lower bulk rates that large residential buildings can score. The rates are an improvement on what you pay as an individual householder, but they won’t stay level in a climate of increasing energy scarcity and soaring costs.

    People tend to be fixated on what’s in front of them and think it will never change. Just as nobody, not even those who remember the gasoline lines of the 70s, saw the ramp-up in oil prices in the 00s, no one sees higher gas prices coming- and steeply higher gas prices ARE coming- because it is so cheap right now. It has yet to seep out to the mainstream that “fracking” is an utter economic failure and that the investors who bought the “fracking” story have subsidized our cheap gas prices. Now that investors have lost their money or are pulling out and fracking operations are shutting down all over the place as the fields deplete rapidly (fracked wells deplete almost instantly), gas is poised to ramp up steeply in price. Get prepared. Anyone who owns in one of these older buildings should be talking to the other owners about a thorough weatherization of the building. It will cost a lot, but it will pay back within a decade, and many time over thereafter, and might make the difference between a really comfortable building with reasonable costs, and one that is no longer even livable.

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  26. “This has to be on the floor just under the penthouse level, and it’s the same floorplan as the others on its tier.”

    Again – not right. Count the floors – look to be about 21 floors and some units have that number in them. So this isn’t the penthouse. Nor is it close to the penthouse. Looks like the fact checkers took a long weekend. And, as for your annoyance with overuse of penthouse, this is more off than referring to the top floor of a 4 or 5 story building as a penthouse. In my opinion.

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  27. Any northside hoods in particular? Do schools matter?
    Yes, good elementary school ideally. Prefer LP or LV, but open to anything up to Edgewater.

    Must you have an elevator?
    Yes

    By “3+”, I gather that you want something that has at least 3 good bedrooms (i.e., a master and two real bedrooms, not a thrid “bedroom” that’s directly adjacent to the living room), is that the case? Must you have a third bath and/or powder room, or are just two toilets enough?
    Yes to both

    Do you need charm?
    No, though nice to have

    Besides your downpayment, will you have anything left for updates, or does it need to be move-in ready?
    I’d prefer that it requires updates! But only have about 120k for down payment and rehab.

    Thx!

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  28. At some point too these older buildings approaching 100 years are going to have major upgrade costs (heating plants, pipes, electrical) that need to be planned for in fees over time (rather than added huge surcharges short term) so as not to overwhelm those on more fixed incomes (the older tenents).

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  29. To be perfectly honest, that unicorn 3-bedroom lakeside condo is more likely to be found on the South Side (Hyde Park/South Shore) than the North.

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  30. I’m open to HP – which buildings are commendable?

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  31. “Any northside hoods in particular? Do schools matter?
    Yes, good elementary school ideally. Prefer LP or LV, but open to anything up to Edgewater.”

    ar: why don’t you just get an agent and go looking? Jesus. There’s only so much a blog can do when you’re looking at almost the entire north side of a major city.

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  32. “This has to be on the floor just under the penthouse level, and it’s the same floorplan as the others on its tier.”

    Sorry- it was my mistake. It was likely late at night and I wasn’t paying attention and got it mixed up with another unit I was looking at. I’ll correct it in the post.

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  33. Laura Louzader-“because it is so cheap right now. It has yet to seep out to the mainstream that “fracking” is an utter economic failure and that the investors who bought the “fracking” story have subsidized our cheap gas prices. Now that investors have lost their money or are pulling out and fracking operations are shutting down all over the place as the fields deplete rapidly (fracked wells deplete almost instantly)”

    Laura, you are an idiot. Fracking is alive and well, and a needed economic engine. Please, focus your condescending attitude to what you think you know about real estate, buy a crappy condo in Humboldt and tell yourself the neighborhood is on the rebound.

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  34. I agree with Laura: fracking is a disaster waiting to happen

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  35. Big Buildings cost money people. If you want to live in a 2 floor walk up new construction west of Racine go ahead. But dont compare it to a pre-war building with doorman 100 yards from Belmont harbor. Its just not the same. People who want to live in high service buildings dont want to live in a three flat. As for costs- they are not cheaper in a high rise. I don’t care if we frack west lake view. High rises have structural costs that offset any savings you could ever have. Goodbye.

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  36. King Schultz, you’re the moron.

    Sabrina, I don’t like to post links here, but I follow energy very closely, and while this is nowhere the first I’ve heard of the dismal economics of fracking, it is the best and most informative article:

    http://shalebubble.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/SWS-report-FINAL.pdf

    I sort of tend to doubt that any substance can sell below its production costs indefinitely. Moreover, American gas producers have been lobbying relentlessly to ease export restrictions so that gas can sell on the world market, where it is trading much higher than it is here. Three LNG terminals are being built. If we permit natural gas to be exported freely, prices will quickly rise to parity with prices elsewhere.

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  37. King is right about natural gas; Laura is not.

    And this building has 22 stories, so 14 is no where near the top. If this was listed anywhere as a penthouse, that was a really dumb mistake, perhaps by the realtor.

    I agree the unit seems cramped and narrow, with no flow between rooms. Lack of parking also sucks. The assessment seems reasonable, however.

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  38. Dan#2: Natural gas is no doubt providing a cleaner and more affordable source of energy, and is important economically. But how happy would you be if fracking were to commence in Highland Park? If they had been fracking in HP for 10 or 20 years, would you have purchased your home down the street from the fracking area?

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  39. They do fracking in the middle of nowhere, what a stupid comment

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  40. “They do fracking in the middle of nowhere”

    “They” are not fracking in River North, no. But it’s already underway in plenty of areas that are in fairly close proximity to places in which people live and work. And it’s many of the most promising basins are located in or near heavily populated areas and/or areas from which population centers derive things like water. But if you’re first impulse is to argue that fracking is done well at a safe distance from anything worth protecting, I’ll take that to mean that you’re of the mind that fracking is, in fact, a cause for concern. So we seem to agree on something.

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  41. Annony,

    You raise a valid point, and I realize that fracking isn’t something one would want to live near. But neither is coal mining, or oil drilling, or a nuclear plant, or a wind farm, for that matter. Would you prefer we live in a world without all those things? Energy extraction isn’t pretty, but without it, you and I wouldn’t be sitting in our nice warm homes/offices conversing about it on the computer.

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  42. “Energy extraction isn’t pretty, but without it, you and I wouldn’t be sitting in our nice warm homes/offices conversing about it on the computer.”

    yet solar and designing passive solar homes, also geothermal heating is all available to us now and is pretty and non invasive.

    fracking, drilling, mining is all done to support old ways of energy consumption that make the old money energy suppliers make tons more money so they can lobby and continue on supplying the same old stuff at higher prices.

    the only reason its an issue is because you want to sit in your outdated offices/homes warm arguing on the computer instead up spending *upfront capital and putting your neighbor to work using the new technologies and engineering to heat/cool your office/home and power that iPad.

    and come on Dan#deuce, you drive the unmanly Prius that is just side stepping the problem then gussying the package up and then selling you a lie to drive very boring and slowly while looking very uncool in a practical and slow manner with no intentions on getting anywhere quick or in a fun manner.

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  43. I’m much more concerned with companies like BP dumping 6000 lbs of sewage directly into lake michigan every day, than some possibly but not sure if it is bad fracking buzzword that some political focus groups made sound scary to uneducated citizens

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  44. Figure out a way for solar and geothermal to provide the same amount of energy that fossil fuel does for us now and I’ll get behind it. I’ve seen no evidence that it’s possible.

    Also, there is an environmental impact from solar. First, it takes factories, material and energy to make the panels. And I’ve read that for solar to have a major impact, we’d need to set aside hundreds of square miles in places like Arizona and Nevada for huge solar farms. I think that’s an excellent use for the land, but it has brought criticism from those who fear the effect on local animal life.

    Geothermal is a great emerging technology; however, it isn’t available everywhere (like oil, you need the right geography), and there have been side effects where it’s used (in Germany, it was linked to earthquakes).

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  45. As for driving the Prius – sure, it’s not very sporty, but I think it’s a great solution. If everyone in the U.S. doubled their gas mileage by driving a hybrid car, we’d be completely free of the need to import oil from overseas, gas prices would go down a great deal and economic growth would take off as companies and consumers spent less on energy and more on other products. High energy prices are a key contributing factor to the slow economic growth over the last decade.

    Obama was smart to raise MPG standards above 50. The car companies (GM, for instance) already say they can achieve this, and the benefits to society from an economic and pollution standpoint will be tremendous.

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  46. Friend of mine in Australia works for a solar installation biz. She has an array on her home that is set up to run excess power to the electric company. It took three years for her to see a bill from the electric company since installation, and that was only because there has been a lot of rain in her part of the country in the past few weeks. We’re talking monsoon-type rains.

    She’s no energy conservation nut by any means. Has two teens, pets, runs all kinds of electric appliances, and has a system that isn’t supposed to produce that much power.

    Gotta think about solar like you think about your Prius, Dan2. Local, not national. A solar array on the home as opposed to ones used for large-scale energy production.

    Groovie – you left out LNP to fuel cars.

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  47. I there anything the good folks on Crib Chatter aren’t experts at?

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  48. ^agreeing on things

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  49. “Figure out a way for solar and geothermal to provide the same amount of energy that fossil fuel does for us now and I’ll get behind it.”

    you need to think smaller, like building per building becoming zero net energy or close to it, to where fosil fuels are a SUPPLEMENT not a sole means.

    “Also, there is an environmental impact from solar. First, it takes factories, material and energy to make the panels”

    thats why i said and asterisked “*upfront capital and costs”. yes the initial hit is nothing, a spit into a ocean type, compared to the years of sustainable and reusable energy generated.

    “Geothermal is a great emerging technology; however, it isn’t available everywhere”

    correct you do need the right topography for its application. but i am pointing out that its one of many diff one can use and its sustainable and can be a main source while fossil and nuclear can be a supplement.

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  50. “As for driving the Prius – sure, it’s not very sporty, but I think it’s a great solution”

    how? there is a study about it, that even if you owned one for 15 years the *extra fosil fuels and toxic waste used to build it and disgard it is more than the fossil fuel saved if driving 12k miles a year over that 15 years.

    now if you say you drive the car as its a marvel of engineering and a innovative plus risky step forward, then i wouldn’t question you (still would tease you).

    now the rumor is that the next gen prius(prii) will be getting 65 miles per gallon CITY!!!!! and there will be an AWD version.

    now with diesel tech getting better and cleaner with a greater ratio. also the fact Ford and the germans can build a 6 cylndar engine that drops 300+ hp and gets you 30mpg hwy is a greater feat than the 10 year old tech of a hybrid.

    “High energy prices are a key contributing factor to the slow economic growth over the last decade”

    dont disagree with you there, its is a huge huge huge factor from the little guys like us to the big corps.

    “Obama was smart to raise MPG standards above 50. ”

    CAFE was a very underrated policy that many dont know or dont care about. But if you look at the 2025 goal numbers it doesnt seem like they will be able to reach those numbers. but the loophole in it is the adding a all electric car to the fleet to make the numbers.

    and according to CAFE your prius (which i assume is the previous gen) wont meet CAFE by i think 2020 or 2025.

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  51. also with your prius you need to remember one thing it really isnt what you drive is how you drive.

    *you can drive your prius and end up with only 28mpg
    *you can drive my 8 cylinder and get 40mpg

    its just the prius is set up and underpowered so even the most lead foot insaneo driver can get high 20’s mpg

    its really how one drives, look at F1 racing they are the masters at hyper-milling and have the most tech to achieve this and do it at a speed that will win races. hyper-milling can be done in any car and the basics of it are super simple even for the the most dense soccer moms doing the school run. But like i said the prius is just set up to hyper mile from the get go.

    and all this R&D will save us costs at the pump but will go into the cost of ALL cars. so i tie this into the upfront cost and i am all for it if the return is greater of the long run. the prius is not the long run but it was a start 10 years ago.

    PS i dont care how many dual turbos you throw in a 4 banger or how you fix the turbo lag, in the end its still starts and idles like a 4 banger. still sounds like one, and even with the engine shut off it stops its still a 4 banger rattle/sound/and lack of power your stuck with and not much mpg savings. only 6 or above for the Groove

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  52. “She’s no energy conservation nut by any means. Has two teens, pets, runs all kinds of electric appliances, and has a system that isn’t supposed to produce that much power”

    thats the thing many see solar and geothermal as SUPPLEMENTS, when it really can be a main and the fossil fuel to supplement.

    its not the only and final answer but it is one that we have now and is tested and proven and really the panels are being built better and better where you can through a 70 mile curve ball at it and wont break.

    the photovoltaic (sp?) and the other solar thermal and be used on any home with nothing but a DC AC converter to get it to work in your home

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  53. “Obama was smart to raise MPG standards above 50. The car companies (GM, for instance) already say they can achieve this, and the benefits to society from an economic and pollution standpoint will be tremendous.”

    Good luck getting the Highland Parkers to give up their luxury imports or start car-pooling. They’ll be the very last to go green, as some of their large homes which take alot of energy to heat and cool attest to.

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  54. Grover, there are some pretty cool 5 cylinder engines, and can you really argue with the EJ series and similar motors? Sure the lag is heavier but that’s the nature of a car like that and the way it’s supposed to be. Flat engines (EJ) sound great at idle in my opinion.

    I am about to start getting rid of cars to make room for the Model S Performance that should be coming my way before too long. Mrs. JJJ says 2 have to go, so a net loss of at least 14 cylinders. I tend to have a heavy foot so I’m looking to save quite a bit just in gas costs, we’ll have to see how much the electric bill goes up and how much I can use other people’s juice.

    I actually think that CAFE has been great – a lot of numbers that weren’t at all reasonable 10 years ago now look much more doable, and the number of gas stations is going to keep dropping from where it has leveled off, probably to 100,000 or less by 2030 or so.

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  55. “there are some pretty cool 5 cylinder engines”

    yes there are but my argument is general and based so not gear heads will get. 80% of the US population only know 4 6 8 calendar engines. now mention rotory and watch the confused face appear.

    “EJ series ”

    yes a great engine because of the torque produced by it. just like diesels the torque is addictive and really what you need to fell like a speed racer.

    “I am about to start getting rid of cars to make room for the Model S Performance”

    beautiful car and insane engineering. read an article that when pushed on a track the juice ran out in two laps or something.
    also the charging times on a standard outlet are still way to long to make it truely a every situation type of car.

    I am not fan of electric cars, only becasue the battery tech (and price) at the moment is not even close to what is needed to make an electric car an *real option. i would by an oil burner over the nissan leaf any day of the week, shoot i would buy a 4 banger civic before i would by a leaf.

    and really if i needed to down size the fiat abarth is darn quick, fun, and good on mpg’s

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  56. Re. the studies about the materials/waste used to build and discard the Prius, I’ve read other studies that say it’s no different than other cars. There are some hybrid haters out there and I’m not sure the study you referred to is not biased.

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  57. “read an article that when pushed on a track the juice ran out in two laps or something.”

    Got a reference? Would love to check that out.

    “also the charging times on a standard outlet are still way to long to make it truely a every situation type of car. I am not fan of electric cars, only becasue the battery tech (and price) at the moment is not even close to what is needed to make an electric car an *real option. i would by an oil burner over the nissan leaf any day of the week, shoot i would buy a 4 banger civic before i would by a leaf.
    and really if i needed to down size the fiat abarth is darn quick, fun, and good on mpg’s”

    We’ll see what tune I sing after the first year, but I hear these same criticisms and don’t get a lot of them. As a technology, electric cars need to continue to develop and part of that is making cars that are competitive in a variety of segments. Because of battery weight and motor cost, it’s the larger, heavier, luxury segment where an electric car can be competitive now (although they’re not far off for some other segments). Sure, Tesla makes expensive cars but you getting luxury or luxury performance that’s price competitive. I think that “fuel” cost should be about 80% reduced and we’ll see how the rest of the costs turn out to be. Charging time on 240V is supposed to be around 4 hours from near empty to a standard charge. That costs you under $2000 for any electric car out there and a lot cheaper for some. You probably need an overnight or workplace chargepoint to make a car like this realistic. No one is suggesting that this is right to drive more than 200 or 250 miles, but I do that maybe 5 days out of the year. Still, unless it’s your only car I don’t really see why having a car that works in 99% of situations is that much of a problem. Unless they’re lying, which I haven’t seen evidence of, to me this is like being concerned about buying a pair of wingtips because they aren’t a good shoe for swimming. Or like saying that wingtips will never be good for walking for most people because they’re not made like walking shoes are.

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  58. I rode in a yellow cab today that had the blue-diamond “CNG vehicle” sticker on it. CNG = compressed natural gas

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  59. “the studies about the materials/waste used to build and discard the Prius, I’ve read other studies that say it’s no different than other cars.”

    Hey not saying it isnt true with the way they build cars now with thing getting shipped across the country to assemble the parts and them ship the assembled part back across the country to be assembled in the final product. I can bet other cars non-hybrid do this too.

    the point is that they do, do it this way (even if other jump off the bridge too), and that defeats its purpose to help the environment, not just to reduce oil consumption.

    “There are some hybrid haters out there and I’m not sure the study you referred to is not biased.”

    i agree it was probably a biased based report and it didnt go into details of how other non-hybrids were made.

    hey i am not a prius hater, i am really looking forward to the rumored next gen with 65mpg’s as to pull that off is a feat of awesomeness. I could car eless about the rumored AWD version as i believe a car with snow tires is better than any awd with all-season tires

    if the prius V had mini van doors al-la the mazda 5 minivan then i think it would be the perfect family car. and with 40+ mpg and that much room and cargo room its a great family vehicle.

    but in the end if i am driving my car every day i want a fun car to drive, and if i am sitting in it everyday i want a cars interior not to have more plastic than baby toys. that is why i dont drive a prius and will not.

    my 8 cyl does suck gas but i bet i use less gas than most prius owners do in a year.
    I have a short commute and I bike to work when I can.

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  60. “Got a reference? Would love to check that out.”

    you could probably google that before my lazy arse got around to finding it.

    “You probably need an overnight or workplace chargepoint to make a car like this realistic. No one is suggesting that this is right to drive more than 200 or 250 miles”

    Correct electric cars like the leaf are not made for putting on the miles. you really need to have more than one car and use the electric for the commute. and realistically average folk aint rolling in three cars for two people. but in that case you should just bike to work, saves gas costs, health costs, time costs & gym costs, mental health costs and wear and tear on your car.

    the performance in the realistic electric cars and hybrid (sorry tesla is not for the Joe’s its for elites) is just plain sad and lack any enjoyment.

    “Charging time on 240V is supposed to be around 4 hours from near empty to a standard charge.”

    i thought off a regular outlet (w/o the rapid charger) its around 8-10 hours to recharge? the rapid charger is only installed at home.

    now i cant rememeber but i think there is an aftermarket rapid charger for the chevy volt that with wifi connection checks the current electric rates and will only charge overnight when the rates are the cheapest!!!!!! thats cool beans there.

    but really the volt start at 40k and only has 4 seats. i can get a honda fit for 16k and fit 5 people and it would take 17 years to make up the gas costs @ $4gal to the volt.

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  61. JJJ, I’ve been seriously eyeing that Tesla sedan. I drive by their showroom on Grand everyday. I agree with your assessment, in the luxury segment it could make sense with current technology. The odds of me ever driving more than 100 miles in a given day is basically nihil and that tesla supposedly gets around 240 or so. However, I’d be curious what the battery drainage is doing say 75/80 mph. The wife’s car could be used for longer road trips, etc.

    During the week, my commute is about 20 miles round trip. Yet, my v8 SUV sucks gas like it is free. Paying $100 bucks a tank is starting to get old. If I am looking at a car in that price point, might as well save a little money on the gas even if you still want all the bells and whistles of a luxury car.

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  62. ““read an article that when pushed on a track the juice ran out in two laps or something.”

    Got a reference? Would love to check that out.”

    Here you go:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/automobiles/stalled-on-the-ev-highway.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

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  63. But see:

    http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/02/tesla-logs-nytimes/

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  64. anon (tfo), I’m going to have to ask you to point to the part of those articles where they talk about hot laps on a track draining the battery quickly. I’ve read a decent amount about those issues, although have tried to avoid getting totally sucked into the message boards, and while it is accurate that this isn’t really a track car, people seem to be getting about 50 – 80 miles under racing conditions (not sure if that’s a standard charge or a range charge). This isn’t surprising, it’s probably hard to regenerate very much power when racing as I would expect the braking power used a maximum braking far exceeds the amount or portion that can be regenerated. It also seems that heat is the primary factor and not battery power in limited use for racing conditions. I would expect traditional high speed highway driving does not limit range nearly as much.

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  65. “where they talk about hot laps on a track draining the battery quickly.”

    Maybe it doesn’t–best I could do for free. Also, I applied the groove filter, so assumed slightly off point.

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  66. maybe it wasnt an article moe of a show/video i am recalling

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/mar/30/tesla-sue-top-gear

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  67. “During the week, my commute is about 20 miles round trip. Yet, my v8 SUV sucks gas like it is free”

    never got the appeal of SUV’s other than a Jeep, never saw the point. if space is what you need then get a mini van. if 4×4 off road ability is what you need then get a wrangler for cheap or a rover.

    nobody besides minnesota, colorado and canada need AWD/4×4 as a good set of snow tires is just as good. and if you really need awd then a audi sedan has got you covered, or if audi is too expensive a subaru is fun to drive.

    and that ten miles in a suv has got to be boring, get a v8 sedan and have fun in those 10 miles!

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