1441 n campbell

Get A 3-Bedroom East Humboldt Park Cottage For Under $400K: 1441 N. Campbell

Mar 25 • Humboldt Park, Single family homes • 674 Views • 87 Comments

This 3-bedroom cottage at 1441 N. Campbell in East Humboldt Park recently came on the market.

Built on a standard 25×125 lot, it has a 2-car garage.

Some upgrades have been made to the home.

The kitchen has white Kraftsmaid cabinets with stainless steel appliances and a red vintage refrigerator.

There is some exposed brick.

There are dark bamboo floors on the main level.

2 of the three bedrooms are on the second level with the third on the main floor.

There is an unfinished basement.

I can’t tell if the house has central air as both having it and not having it are in the public listing.

This house was previously listed a year ago in March 2012 for $369,000 but it didn’t sell.

It’s come back on the market at $395,000.

Will it get the higher price now that the market is hotter?

Michael Clouse at Element 78 Realty has the listing. See the pictures here.

1441 N. Campbell: 3 bedrooms, 1 bath, 1700 square feet, 2 car garage

  • Sold in August 1991 for $60,000
  • Sold in November 1999 for $70,000 (??? the public record says $7,000 but I think that’s a typo given the 1991 price and it was not bank owned.)
  • Sold in July 2007 for $265,000
  • Originally listed in March 2012 for $369,000
  • Withdrawn at the same price in July 2012
  • Recently re-listed at $395,000
  • Taxes of $3576
  • Central Air (??? – listing says it has C/A but also says there is no C/A)
  • Bedroom #1: 15×15 (second floor)
  • Bedroom #2: 14×15 (second floor)
  • Bedroom #3: 9×11 (main floor)
  • Laundry room: 8×7

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87 Responses to Get A 3-Bedroom East Humboldt Park Cottage For Under $400K: 1441 N. Campbell

  1. Very cute 19th century cottage, nicely updated with cleverly arranged kitchen and attractive upgrades.

    But I confess I’m at a complete loss to understand why Humboldt Park with its high crime is so much more attractive to professionals than west Rogers Park, which has much better quality SF houses available for vastly cheaper prices and also has far less crime and at least as much interest to it, as this area. I suppose proximity to downtown is a major factor.

  2. Gary Lucido says:

    I know that anything with the name “Humboldt Park” in it brings cringes to this forum but this particular neighborhood appears to be up and coming. Median income is 49K and move 4 blocks east and it jumps to 78K as Wicker Park. There is a lot of interest among investors in the strip just a few block west of Western around here.

  3. homedelete says:

    “Median income is 49K and move 4 blocks east and it jumps to 78K as Wicker Park. ”

    So the criminals no longer have cross Western Ave. in tow with your grill stolen from you back porch. How convenient!

    The fact of the matter is that Humboldt Park may gentrify around the fringes but there’s just too much entrenched poverty, gangs, crime and vacant lots to fully turn the corner. I would love to see it turn but there’s too much friction between the gentifiers and the residents to every truly change. It’s a better bet to head NW to avondale and jefferson park and jump on the bandwagon.

  4. homedelete says:

    Of note this property utilizes the space very well, considering that the first floor is a whopping 1,100 sq feet. The bedrooms upstairs add a little more sq footage but this is a small space, and possibly even too small for the current residents i.e. the crib in the bedroom (aka the former attic converted sometime between 1880 and 2000).

  5. Icarus says:

    well you know the old adage, if at first you don’t succeed, increase your asking price by $25K

  6. jenny says:

    This place is more convenient to downtown than Rogers Park. However, I would shy away from Humboldt Park. Perhaps it would work to buy this place as a rental for a few years and see if the neighborhood improves.

    The lack of a second bathroom really kills this place though. There is no way, I would pay $400k to live in a one bathroom house, in a neighborhood that is still riddled with gangs.

    Also, is the $49k median for a family or per capita?

  7. Madeline says:

    Nicely done, but very small for a family. Might work for a couple or a singleton, but is that the demographic that’s looking for a single family home?

  8. AnonLP says:

    I’m single and looking for a SFH. I am done sharing walls with people (bad neighbor experiences) but still want to live in the city. I’d buy this in a heartbeat if it wasn’t in HP.

  9. mda says:

    We had looked at some houses by Bloomingdale on Campbell and Rockwell and were told going south of North Ave was a bad idea around there. I believe this is the area where a lot of McCarthy’s efforts have been focused on in cracking down on gangs.

    http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/14391152-418/more-than-a-year-in-chicago-police-war-on-gang-having-an-impact.html

    The article starts by talking about Potomac & Rockwell, which is a couple blocks away from this property.

  10. johnnyU says:

    $400M for this?

    They over improved this place for the area

  11. Gary Lucido says:

    “Also, is the $49k median for a family or per capita?”

    I’m pretty sure that’s household income.

  12. Java says:

    Super cute, esp. the charming kitchen with that red fridge, but a little cramped (yes, the lack of a 2nd bathroom, even a powder room, really hurts), and wow, Humboldt Park is not a favorite of mine. I think HD is wrong on the crib — I think that’s in a separate bedroom upstairs (there are 2 bedrooms upstairs, no?).

  13. homedelete says:

    The separate bedrooms upstairs is the dormered attic? there is a dormered attic or some sort of vinyl siding addition on the back of the house.

  14. jay says:

    ‘I’d buy this in a heartbeat if it wasn’t in HP.’

    Would you still consider buying this exact property at *double* the asking if it were in what you’d consider to be a more desirable neighborhood? Because that’s what it would take. The neighborhood is up and coming, maybe too slow for this crowd, but this is how people with ‘limited’ means make long term profit in RE: they wait it out. Buy this place, enjoy your life, remember that others have done the *same* thing years before you did it (me – LP in the 70/80s), log onto CC in 20 years and listen to a new generation moan about the lack of opportunity even as it looks directly at them.

  15. Icarus says:

    ” log onto CC in 20 years and listen to a new generation moan about the lack of opportunity even as it looks directly at them.”

    Future Anonny Jr: I don’t consider this East Humboldt Park, I consider EHP to be East of Western not just East of the park itself.

  16. brad says:

    One strategy would be the follow the El tracks for the best place to invest. I’d be okay living a few blocks around the Western, California, Logan, and Belmont stops.

    Grand, Chicago, Division, and Damen are obviously already pretty pricey or waiting for high rise construction on the larger parcels around Chicago and Grand.

  17. Nonchatterer says:

    “this is how people with ‘limited’ means make long term profit in RE: they wait it out. Buy this place, enjoy your life”

    True enough, with proviso that neighbor risk won’t get in the way of the “enjoy your life” part. Music, insane dogs, domestic drama, front stoop and curbside visits at all hours. All these can be part of your urban lifestyle with the right folks living next door.

  18. mda says:

    Brad has the right idea. I can’t see a place this small going for a whole lot more than $400k in most parts of Logan Square or Avondale. They’ve got gang activity too, but they aren’t the center of the MLD’s drug trade.

    Life is too short to waste 20 years on some neighborhood that might gentrify someday.

  19. jay says:

    ‘True enough, with proviso that neighbor risk won’t get in the way of the “enjoy your life” part. Music, insane dogs, domestic drama, front stoop and curbside visits at all hours.’

    That’s all apart of up and coming. Same thing happened in Sheffield in the late 70s early 80′s, exactly the same thing: gang fights, petty crime, garage break-ins, Latino music blasting at 2am, car break-ins… lived thru it all, and crime was statistically *higher* then, and there was zero buzz regarding the city, any city for that matter, as it was *all* about the burbs. LP was more gentrified even at that time (and much more expensive), but there were reasons people still bought west of Halsted – it was ‘affordable’. This is nothing new, not in NY/SF/LA/even London. What is new though, is that you have long term rapidly shifting demographics on your side; there are reasons big money, really big highly researched money, invests in certain cities now, Chicago included. We never had that then, as you threw money at the wall and just hoped it stuck, and it did.

  20. marco says:

    Does a house this size need a separate laundry room. Stack the w/d and can can at least fit a powder room or small full sized bathroom. This may be the only house in Humbolt Park with Bosch W/Ds.

  21. homedelete says:

    “log onto CC in 20 years and listen to a new generation moan about the lack of opportunity even as it looks directly at them.”

    I don’t think it’s fair to extrapolate your situation 30-40 years ago about LP and say that Humboldt Park will do the same thing. And who wants to spend 20 years waiting around for the change to occur, if ever. You got lucky in your place in LP but not everybody will be so fortunate. Just ask the buyers who bought new construction south 290 on western….that area was supposed to gentrify too..

    Following the el line is definitely a good idea, so is clustering around downtown; and so is heading NW from downtown along the blue, brown and union pacific NW metra line.

  22. homedelete says:

    “What is new though, is that you have long term rapidly shifting demographics on your side; ”

    I too am somewhat familiar with demographics and I think it supports Humboldt Park expanding in size rather than gentrifying!

    But that aside, the upper middle class is growing and so are the lower working classes, at the expense of the middle classes. You either move up or down. I don’t know if there are enough people ‘moving up’ to get to Humboldt Park.

    I have a buddy who recently moved to this area, although east of western (just barely) and he freely admits the neighborhood is still in transition and it may never fully transition. It sure as heck won’t turn into another lincoln park.

  23. CK says:

    “Same thing happened in Sheffield in the late 70s early 80?s, exactly the same thing: gang fights, petty crime, garage break-ins, Latino music blasting at 2am, car break-ins…

    Have to agree with Jay. I was in CC’s beloved Lakeview early 90′s close to Southport. Saw the same thing. My car got broke into twice, at which point I sold it. I remember Latino neighbors sitting in their car all day hanging out with the family, listening to the car radio. Nice working class people, just loved the fact they were in America and had a car I guess. Also remember a few house loaded with gang bangers, tags everywhere, etc.

    I also helped a friend move into this area of Humboldt around the same time, at night. I have rarely walked into such insanity. I seems much much better now than in those days.

  24. Groove77 says:

    I know The Groove should be the last of anyone to correct spelling, punctuation, or grammar. But it thought i should point this out and correct it for you

    ‘This 3-bedroom cottage at 1441 N. Campbell East OF Humboldt Park recently came on the market’

  25. jenny says:

    Lakeview and LP have the lake going for them. What does Humboldt Park have going for it? You could have a similar commute to the Loop from Oak Park and not have to deal with gangs.

  26. Groove77 says:

    ” You could have a similar commute to the Loop from Oak Park and not have to deal with gangs.”

    jenny dont fool yourself gangs are in Oak Park. they are every where. there was even a gang shooting in the norwood/jefferson park boarder on Foster and Nagle.

  27. AnonLP says:

    I hear you on making money and agree it would be tempting. I wish I felt ok living in a gentrifying area. Could certainly make more money. In my case I’m a single woman and would not feel safe coming and going after dark. Not that I come in at crazy hours, but I do have a dog I need to walk and hell, in winter, it’s dark long before I even get home from work.

    But also agree with some other posters that it’s a bit of luck as well. I bought in LP in 2007 and it sucks that my condo has decreased in value, but it decreased a hell of lot less than riskier areas of the city. i might actually be able to sell at a profit (my friend just sold for $50K more than he bought in 2006, a 3BR in LP.)

  28. ewwhite says:

    And…. SOLD… Well, it’s contingent now.

  29. jay says:

    ‘I don’t think it’s fair to extrapolate your situation 30-40 years ago about LP and say that Humboldt Park will do the same thing.’

    I’m not suggesting that HP will be the next LP, in the same way few in NYC are proclaiming that the Lower ES will one day be the new UES. What I am suggesting though, is that living in and living thru a gentrifying neighborhood can have it’s financial rewards… long term; the operative word here is ‘can’, as there are no guarantees in RE nor in life for that matter.

    I’d say that today my place is worth at least 4x more than what I bought it for in ’88 (and I overpaid for it by $50K at the apex of that crazed market). Then came the crash of the early 90′s, where I and most of my neighbors were underwater for several plus years (however taxes still rose), then only to watch my house’s value painfully and slowly, very slowly, rise because deeper pocketed buyers all of a sudden wanted bigger/newer in areas like Ranch Triangle, Wrightwood, Bucktown, Southport, etc. Then all of a sudden public school quality/ease of public transportation/tear downs and their unfortunate replacements/quality of surrounding housing stock/walkability, became the new ‘it’ factors, and wham, my value is probably where it should be… if not more than where it should be, and rising faster than it probably should be. Gentrification is a roller coaster ride even in prime LP, and if it’s not for you and I don’t think it is, then that’s that. I’d do it all over again even with not knowing what I know now.

    “And…. SOLD… Well, it’s contingent now.”

    Congratulations to these new owners, catch your opinion in 20 years.

  30. helmethofer says:

    Humboldt Park isn’t going to gentrify until they take a blowtorch to this thing: http://www.voxxi.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/IMG_12391.jpg

    No chance of a SoPo type changeover there. jay is wrong.

  31. helmethofer says:

    Hey jay: curious about your opinion, since you’re old enough to have been thru several cycles and recessions from the Eighties until now. Do you worry or think that “this time it’s different”? Or is that said everytime during the downturn. Some of the long time gurus out there (like Richard Russell etc.) are saying this time around is like NOTHING they’ve ever seen before, ever. With all the massive debt/deficits/unfunded liabilities… is it really different this time? or will be we looking back in 20 years laughing at the worry? I don’t recall as many dooms-day type pronosticators around after dotcom crash, not like we have today analyzing the world financial position.

  32. dd says:

    Charming cottage with very well done remodeling.

  33. Sabrina says:

    “I’d say that today my place is worth at least 4x more than what I bought it for in ’88 (and I overpaid for it by $50K at the apex of that crazed market).”

    So many asset classes are worth 4x what they were in 1988. It doesn’t take a genius to make loads of money if you buy one asset and don’t sell it for decades. This is just a story supporting “buy and hold.”

    With real estate- neighborhoods can change. In the last decade, the neighborhood with the most appreciation was Lincoln Square and Edgewater and places like that. You won’t make the same amount owning in LP anymore. And areas that were once “nice” might not be in 20 years. It’s really a lottery. What about all those families who bought 25 years ago in Flossmoor? That was a lovely, upscale suburb. Had been for decades. But there’s been no appreciation there. Even in the boom. They’re LOST money. Who knew? They didn’t when they bought in the 1980s. Luck of the draw.

    I’ve mentioned this before. I had friends buy a greystone in Wicker Park in 1990-1991. They could hear gunshots nearly every night. They got it on the cheap. It’s over 20 years later. Sure- it’s worth a lot of money but it was hell for a decade and they put a lot of money into fixing it up. Do I want to live in hell for 10 years? No thanks. Life’s too short. And, like I said, I could have taken the same $400k they spent on the place and turned that into $1 million over the last 20 years too.

  34. Sabrina says:

    “And…. SOLD… Well, it’s contingent now.”

    There are a bunch of those new construction SFH on this block and surrounding blocks. Like one a block. I think I counted 3 or 4 just driving around here. Those sell for around $400k too but I think they’re slightly bigger (like 2000 square feet). All brand new construction, of course. More than 1 bath.

  35. Sabrina says:

    ”You could have a similar commute to the Loop from Oak Park and not have to deal with gangs.”

    I get out of my car in Oak Park though. Some city neighborhoods? Nope.

    There are gangs everywhere- but that doesn’t mean they’re living next door.

  36. Sabrina says:

    “Lakeview and LP have the lake going for them. What does Humboldt Park have going for it?”

    What does Bucktown have? Some houses being listed in the $3 million to $4 million range now there.

    Why?

  37. Sabrina says:

    “That’s all apart of up and coming. Same thing happened in Sheffield in the late 70s early 80?s, exactly the same thing: gang fights, petty crime, garage break-ins, Latino music blasting at 2am, car break-ins… lived thru it all, and crime was statistically *higher* then, and there was zero buzz regarding the city, any city for that matter, as it was *all* about the burbs.”

    Did you raise a child in that environment Jay?

    This house is being marketed, most likely, to families.

    It is not a starter home price. It is upper middle class housing. What’s the school here? Where’s the park? Who comes to your child’s birthday parties?

  38. dude says:

    [jenny] – “What does Humboldt Park have going for it?”

    It has the park, sherlock.

  39. jay says:

    ‘What about all those families who bought 25 years ago in Flossmoor?’ ‘…no appreciation there’

    Flossmoor? That’s your comparison? What does a suburb, or rather an exurb, have anything to do with a gentrifying *urban* Chicago neighborhood? Really? My experiences are most certainly an example of buy and hold, but we’re not talking Apple stock here – trying sleeping in your monthly statement, we’re talking about the fact that everyone *requires* a roof over their head, and therein lies the rub… what and where do you want that roof to be? I’m guessing the majority of CC’rs want the GZ, or a good shot at what may be the next GZ. I just happen to love old townhouses and city living, so my place was a natural match for me – win or lose, why move? And yes, at the end of the game (read – retirement or death) it’s kinda nice, actually pretty sweet, to know that the house you have stewarded for all these years has a lot more value to it than the original purchase price adjusted for inflation… for yourself or your heirs.

    So while you’re all up in the suburbs, lets talk about Wilmette. A family member bought the same year I did (’88) for $750K, and just sold a few months ago for $1.1M. Sure they still made money when they sold, sent three kids to a fine public school, had a nice life in a faux-colonial McMansion, all wonderful except when the kids grow up and move on. But, they saw nowhere near the RE returns like those of us who bought at the same time in LP or like your friends in WP… or my friends who bought entire brick 3-flats on Courtland in ’90 for $65K. Live in hell? I’d rather feel the crime and grind of the city, than lay witness to sterile north shore’rs in their fucking cable knit holiday sweaters drink cocktails mixes out of their Orvis punch set. And apparently the next generations (not all, but a very sizable subgroup) thinks similarly about living in the burbs (maybe not the Christmas parties), as by and large even the nicer suburbs are not appreciating like *houses* in the GZ… not here, not in LA, not outside of NY, not outside of Boston, but I’ll give you Silicon Valley which is unique. The suburbs are never going away, nor should they, but they’re no longer and haven’t been for quite some time, the single dominating force since WWII in where one must live to prosper. Schadenfreude… absolutely.

  40. Sabrina says:

    “So while you’re all up in the suburbs, lets talk about Wilmette. A family member bought the same year I did (’88) for $750K, and just sold a few months ago for $1.1M. Sure they still made money when they sold, sent three kids to a fine public school, had a nice life in a faux-colonial McMansion, all wonderful except when the kids grow up and move on. But, they saw nowhere near the RE returns like those of us who bought at the same time in LP or like your friends in WP.”

    Well- the schools are SO MUCH BETTER. That’s why they’re there. If you’re single or in your 20s you can do the GZ. You never answered my question. You didn’t have kids in LP in the 1970s or 1980s, did you? Doesn’t seem like it. Similarly, I don’t understand why you’d want to raise a child in Humboldt Park either. My friends who bought in Wicker Park in 1990 were childless. So they didn’t have to think about keeping a child safe against gangs and gunshots.

    My point about Flossmoor was that it’s random what neighborhoods gentrify and which do not. Appreciation is completely random. Even right near the train station in neighborhoods that used to be “well off”. The Gap neighborhood on the south side has been talked about for 10 years. Great housing stock and close to downtown. But so far, gentrification hasn’t happened.

    Same with Uptown and some other north side neighborhoods (let’s not even get into that.) We all know someone who bought 10 or 15 years ago in Uptown or Edgewater and who are still taking a loss.

    Being scared in my house isn’t living. Having to call the cops all the time isn’t living.

    One of my friends bought a house in 2004 in West Oakland, CA. It has a great collection of Victorians. People are moving in and fixing them back up again (it used to be ground zero during the Jazz Age. The BART stop is not far away).

    The result was that she bought two rotweillers (one of which was stolen) and got into so many fights with various neighbors that she ended up letting the house go into foreclosure just so she could move out of there. The stress level was incredible. They used to do drug deals right in front of her house. She started wiping dog do-do on the fence so that it smelled so bad that they stopped doing the deals in front of her house. (hey- whatever works.)

    Staying there for 10 or 20 years? No way. And I’m SURE it will gentrify in that neighborhood. No doubt in my mind (or hers.) But you have to live first. And that was no life. (She has so many amazing stories about crime etc. I told her to write a memoir.) By the way- you call the police at your own risk. I used to worry about her safety all the time. The neighborhood doesn’t like snitches, right?

    Lincoln Park stunk for 20 years. I knew someone who went to DePaul in the mid-1970s and her parents wouldn’t let her live in the area because it was too dangerous. I’d rather buy Apple and sleep with that if I want appreciation. Real estate is for living. If you pay it off and it goes up 1% to 3% or you get lucky and get 5% a year- all the better. But otherwise, I want to LIVE in it.

  41. johnnyU says:

    Sabrina – I think you were on a roll, but I disagree with this

    “This house is being marketed, most likely, to families.
    It is not a starter home price. It is upper middle class housing. What’s the school here? Where’s the park? Who comes to your child’s birthday parties?”

    I think its being marketed to a couple making $150-175M/YR without kids. I think the targeted couple will unfortunately buy into the premise that the neighborhood is turning and that in 7 years when their future child is ready for school, the area schools will have improved enough that the current state of the area schools aren’t a problem.

    Regarding the Wilmette vs LP debate a more apt investment comparison would be a T Bill Vs a Tech start-up

  42. homedelete says:

    Sabrina’s right. Jay, you, for the most part, got lucky. You’re not some real estate genius, you bought in an area close to downtown that had the potential to gentrify – and it did, very much so. However, your opinions on the north shore (which you disparage but I happen to agree with) are not universally shared, and in fact, the population and wealth concentrations of the north shore are far greater than the tiny little sliver of the north shore called lincoln park. To eaches own basically.

  43. homedelete says:

    “Regarding the Wilmette vs LP debate a more apt investment comparison would be a T Bill Vs a Tech start-up”

    It’s the same income classes just different age groups that go back and forth between LP and the north shore. Park Ridge is sort of the same way. I’ve met at least half a dozen LP and OT transplants who lived in the city but moved to the ‘burbs when it came time to move; generally the ones in PR are slightly ‘poorer’ (relatively of course) than the transplants from the north shore. But the north shore is plenty the same way – they live inthe city for a while and when it comes time to move, tehy go to the bigger house in the suburbs and often it’s the north shore. When people say stuff like this LP and the north shore aren’t comparable, they just prove they have absolutely no idea what they’re talking about.

  44. Russ says:

    I’ve always wondered what would be the next hot neighborhood in Chicago. There does seem to be some randomness to when and why certain areas gentrify faster than others. In addition, every city has that one neighborhood where it just won’t or can’t gentrify despite galiant efforts to do so. I think there needs to be several things in place – location, housing stock, a business center, turnover of older residents, active new residents, and lack of affordable or viable housing options in more popular areas.

    So while Humboldt Park has several of those items, the thing that I think stops it for most folks is there are other viable alternatives at reasonable price points.

  45. Icarus says:

    “Jay, you, for the most part, got lucky. You’re not some real estate genius,”

    I don’t believe he’s stated anything other than luck and dedication as they key to his success. In fact, he’s even pointed out that after 30+ years of home ownership surprises like broken furnaces, regular maintenance and updating, your profit margin shrinks considerably.

  46. homedelete says:

    “I think its being marketed to a couple making $150-175M/YR without kids. ”

    I can market clear pepsi to the 18-34 age demographic and hope that it sells too but that doesn’t mean it will. This is not a $400k house, and most assuredly not west of western.

  47. homedelete says:

    I can also market $3.50 bags of soup with exotic flavors (both natural and artificial) to younger age demographics and hope that it sells, but it will ultimately fail, just like the $395,000 workers cottage of west of western.

    http://www.campbellsgo.com/

  48. helmethofer says:

    “A family member bought the same year I did (’88) for $750K, and just sold a few months ago for $1.1M.”

    Wow, that’s hard to believe. Was the price psf in Wilmette really that high in 1988?

    You know what interesting is the gentrifying inner-ring parts of cities in TX… like Dallas, Houston etc. 25 years ago their prices were 1/2 of Chicago’s on a price psf basis, and TX was looked down upon by Chicagoans….but now they’ve caught up to the $300 psf range. It has to do with Chicago living in the stone-age and embracing the corrupt-socialist model of leftist governance, and promoting itself as a sanctuary city, that’s making us fall behind in appreciation rates with the rest of the world.

  49. BE says:

    “And apparently the next generations (not all, but a very sizable subgroup) thinks similarly about living in the burbs (maybe not the Christmas parties), as by and large even the nicer suburbs are not appreciating like *houses* in the GZ… not here, not in LA, not outside of NY, not outside of Boston, but I’ll give you Silicon Valley which is unique. The suburbs are never going away, nor should they, but they’re no longer and haven’t been for quite some time, the single dominating force since WWII in where one must live to prosper. Schadenfreude… absolutely.”

    I think it’s too early to tell what the “next generation” really wants. Since at least the 80s, every generation of 20- and 30-somethings had a large portion of people that wanted to live in the city, and for very good and obvious reasons all of which have been debated before. However, for those that had kids, most of them moved to the suburbs for very good and obvious reasons all of which have been debated before. Our priorities change pretty dramatically between ages 25 and 35, especially when kids enter the picture.

    What we are seeing is fewer people getting marrier and having kids. Many of them will stay in the city. However, as the Gen Y/Millennial Generation enters their 30s, many will not be able to afford GZ city-living because of their crazy student loan debt. Some won’t have families at all, but those that do will want someplace affordable to live and will need to rely on public schools because they can’t afford private.

    The city-vs-suburb debate is tiresome. The debate should be about transit-oriented, walkable communities (city or suburb) with good schools and amenities vs. car-oriented outlier neighborhoods/suburbs/exurbs with crappy schools and fewer amenities.

    The older, transit-oriented suburbs will always do well with families where one or more parent works in the Loop. The lifestyle of a family with a young child in Lincoln Square is not that much different from a family in the North Shore or La Grange/Hinsdale. Charming, older homes on city-sized lots. Kids running from house to house across front yards. Lots of stuff to walk to. Lots of kid-focused activities. Similar commute to the Loop time-wise.

  50. BE says:

    “Flossmoor? That’s your comparison? What does a suburb, or rather an exurb, have anything to do with a gentrifying *urban* Chicago neighborhood?”

    Flossmoor is most definitely not an exurb — it’s an upscale, mature suburb that has been popular with UofC faculty/doctors for years. In terms of beauty, parts of it are right there with eastern Winnetka and southeast Hinsdale. It is sad about what happened to home prices there, though. However, it also presents a huge opportunity for young families who want to take a “risk” in the south suburbs in that you can buy an gorgeous house 5-minutes from the Metra for $100 psf or less. It’s still a great community, but unfortunately it gets lumped in with the rest of the southland and stays off of people’s radar.

  51. homedelete says:

    “It’s still a great community, but unfortunately it gets lumped in with the rest of the southland and stays off of people’s radar.”

    Flossmoor to my parent’s home is 50 miles; which is an hour drive, even with no traffic. In Traffic? fuhgeddaboudit! For easter this sunday? No way!

    Chicago is a huge sprawling metropolis from portage, to joliet to geneva to crystal lake to waukegan. There are lot of places to live but communing between them just isn’t practicable. t’s not like MN-ST paul where you can get from one end ot the other in 25 minutes even with traffic on the highway. It sometime take me an hour and 10 minutes to drive from downtown to mt prospect on 90, much less commuting to the south suburbs

  52. homedelete says:

    The other issues with the south suburbs are the taxes. You can get a huge 2,500 sq foot ranch on 1/4 acre for $250,000 but the taxes will be $10,000. I saw one the other day in Olymipa fields. $260~ish for the house and $15,000 in taxes.

  53. helmethofer says:

    “However, it also presents a huge opportunity for young families who want to take a “risk” in the south suburbs in that you can buy an gorgeous house 5-minutes from the Metra for $100 psf or less. It’s still a great community, but unfortunately it gets lumped in with the rest of the southland and stays off of people’s radar.”

    I’m sure there’s an equivalent area of Detroit or Cleveland, that’s gone to zero or close to it. Risk indeed.

  54. E in HP says:

    The vast majority of the comments left here about Humboldt Park (and the area in particular that this house is being sold) come across as ignorant banter from people that obviously don’t live here. I’ve lived east of the park and west of western for the past couple of years and in that time there have been multiple SFHs built and sold for 350-450K within a 1 block radius of me.

    As far as the people that live here:
    My wife and I are biracial.
    The house north of us is owned by a white couple that own and run restaurants/clubs in Bucktown/WP
    north of them is a middle class black family
    south of us is a low income black family
    south of them is another white couple that own a business in WP
    across the street is a really nice PR family, north of them is a white guy that lives alone, south of them is a Mexican family

    It’s been a pleasant place to live with a lot of diverse people. I don’t live here “in fear” and I don’t “have friction with the residents”. It’s a place where I shovel my neighbor’s sidewalk when I’m shoveling my own and they help me with my car when I get a flat or if there’s something wrong with my battery.
    It says a lot that this house at a whopping 395K for such a “gang infested” area is under contract in less than 5 days.

  55. BE says:

    “Flossmoor to my parent’s home is 50 miles; which is an hour drive, even with no traffic. In Traffic? fuhgeddaboudit! For easter this sunday? No way!”

    Most people that live in the south suburbs have family in the S/SW suburbs or NWI. I agree that, unless you wanted to actively avoid your parents, it would be silly to move that far away.

  56. BE says:

    “The other issues with the south suburbs are the taxes. You can get a huge 2,500 sq foot ranch on 1/4 acre for $250,000 but the taxes will be $10,000. I saw one the other day in Olymipa fields. $260~ish for the house and $15,000 in taxes.”

    Agreed. The smaller industrial and retail tax base down there puts a lot of pressure on residential property taxes.

  57. johnnyU says:

    “It’s the same income classes just different age groups that go back and forth between LP and the north shore.”

    Not 25 years ago dumbass

    “I can market clear pepsi to the 18-34 age demographic and hope that it sells too but that doesn’t mean it will. This is not a $400k house, and most assuredly not west of western.”

    I’m happy for you. I also noted that the price was a joke for the neighborhood

    Nice reading comprehension Lionel

  58. johnnyU says:

    “It’s not like MN-ST paul where you can get from one end ot the other in 25 minutes even with traffic on the highway. It sometime take me an hour and 10 minutes to drive from downtown to mt prospect on 90, much less commuting to the south suburbs”

    LOFL. There is no way you are getting from one end of Mpls to St Paul in 25 minutes during rush hour.

  59. homedelete says:

    to the dumbass who called me the dumbass:

    who said anything about ‘rush hour’? my quote was ““It’s not like MN-ST paul where you can get from one end ot the other in 25 minutes even with traffic on the highway.”

    Since when does traffic = RUSH HOUR.
    there’s traffic on the kennedy right now but it’s not rush hour.

  60. CH says:

    “A family member bought the same year I did (’88) for $750K, and just sold a few months ago for $1.1M.”

    that sounds kind of odd. Had a friend who’s family moved from EV to glencoe in 88. when they got out of glencoe in 04 (sold as tear-down) they got triple what they paid. the old house in Ev happened to be for sale at the same time and sold for double what they got for it.

    granted, it’s not quadruple but I think your wilmette example isnt super typical either.

  61. Mitch says:

    “The other issues with the south suburbs are the taxes. You can get a huge 2,500 sq foot ranch on 1/4 acre for $250,000 but the taxes will be $10,000. I saw one the other day in Olymipa fields. $260~ish for the house and $15,000 in taxes.”
    Agreed. The smaller industrial and retail tax base down there puts a lot of pressure on residential property taxes.

    I live in the south burbs and while I am not happy with my taxes (who is) I think they compare to some of these places in the city I see featured here…and I have a big lot and trees and good services, etc. Don’t get me wrong, the taxes suck but they suck all across crook county.

  62. jay says:

    No Sabrina I didn’t have kids. But, plenty of my neighbors did and somehow they turned out just fine. Either they went to public (which weren’t all that great back then), catholic, Parker (when it was an ‘affordable’ hippie like school at something like $9k a year), Montessori. Education while important, just wasn’t this obsessive topic like it is now; I realize that alone will strike panic and anger here, but believe me when I tell you it was the opinion of the time, not for all, but for most who choose the neighborhood.

    Dumb luck HD? Absolutely dumb luck is *always* a factor in any type of ‘success’. It was dumb luck that I was born a tall white male – that alone won’t carry you thru life, but it certainly helps open doors and I’ve known that. Dumb luck buying where I did? Sure to some degree, but it’s more than that. I’ve always moved along the lines of the creative class, and while I can’t stand that manufactured label but for lack another description I’ll use it here. As a broad example, while the masses continued moving to the suburbs, small groups of outside thinking people couldn’t believe the potential opportunity they left in their wake – beautiful (and that’s in the eye of the beholder) untouched vintage urban architecture. Dangerous, risky, frustrating, money pits that had little promise of ever paying off, but it was a chosen style of life that just had a soul to it, and the other option (where many came from and found soulless) was inconceivable. Dumb luck or forward thinking?

  63. anon (tfo) says:

    HD: how fast do you drive that you can get from Stillwater to Mound in 25 minutes?

  64. jay says:

    ‘Had a friend who’s family moved from EV to glencoe in 88. when they got out of glencoe in 04 (sold as tear-down) they got triple what they paid’

    ’04 was a very different market than now. My example was a typical 4000sq ft (give or take) newish house on the west side of town. Taxes climbed into the $23K range, heating and cooling costs continued to rise, yard/house maintenance was large, little walkability if any, the space was just too much for now two people. They were not desperate to sell, but they felt (as did their neighbors who are in similar situations) that houses like theirs were not going to appreciate that much more in the future. Thankfully they aren’t relying on the proceeds of their house sale to solely fund their retirement in 7 years… unlike their neighbors.

  65. anon (tfo) says:

    Or, the 75 miles from Princeton to Lakeville? You really drive 180 mph on county roads?

  66. jay says:

    ‘In fact, he’s even pointed out that after 30+ years of home ownership surprises like broken furnaces, regular maintenance and updating, your profit margin shrinks considerably’

    Actually 20+ years of home ownership Icarus. Damn, don’t make facing 50 shortly any harder than it already is.

  67. homedelete says:

    “HD: how fast do you drive that you can get from Stillwater to Mound in 25 minutes?”

    Stillwater is pretty far outside of town..went to an inlaws wedding there recently…
    Try more like woodbury to maple grove 30 mins.

    Why does everyone always use extreme examples on CC?

    https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=I-494+N&daddr=10th+St+N&hl=en&sll=45.015302,-93.169556&sspn=0.423754,1.056747&geocode=FdnbrwIdqh5u-g%3BFYoVrgIdPER1-g&mra=mift&mrsp=1&sz=11&t=m&z=11

  68. Java says:

    anon — while I agree that HH is being overly optimistic about travel times in MSP, you’re not talking about actual MSP “suburbs” when you mention Stillwater and Princeton. MSP is totally different from Chicago in terms of commutes and travel times. Even the 494 rush hour snarl doesn’t begin to compare with Chicago rush hour. I’d LOVE to have my old Twin Cities commute (even the one brief year of Wayzata to the East Bank, which I thought was terrible at the time).

  69. JJJ says:

    There are plenty of long commutes in the Twin Cities, and the meters are super-annoying. This is just another thing on the long list of things that HD is ignorant about.

  70. gringozecarioca says:

    “Damn, don’t make facing 50 shortly any harder than it already is.”

    Find yourself a 19 year old…

  71. jay says:

    ‘Find yourself a 19 year old…’

    No we got nothin’ in common, no we can’t talk at all… [but] please take me along when you slide on down

  72. gringozecarioca says:

    “No we got nothin’ in common, no we can’t talk at all… [but] please take me along when you slide on down”

    Perfect… The fine Columbian…

  73. homedelete says:

    Overly optimistic? I link to google from woodbury (east) to maple grove (west) in 30 minutes at 3:30 p.m on a tuesday. The equiv drive in chicago is flossmoor to mt prospect which well over an hour w/o traffic.

    Oh wait, JJJ is the authority on the subject – he says there are long commutes but Im ignorant of them and then just leaves it at that. It must be true, that google traffic map updated nearly instantaneously by tens of thousands of android smart phones calcuating GPS and uploading to google services doesn’t mean shit. JJJ knows everything, he knows of ‘long commutes’ because he is so smart, he knows damn near everything. JJJ must be in mensa he’s so damn smart, and he’s probably so damn wise too. LIke king Solomon.

  74. homedelete says:

    anon(tfo)’s example is basically like commuting from rockford to kankakee, and then wonders why you can’t do it in an half an hour.

    Java is the only person who lived in MSP, and said taht the commute doesn’t even compare to the chicago commute, and then opines upon an forlorns for his previous commute.

    Yet, JJJ knows everything. Both Java and I are wrong.

  75. gringozecarioca says:

    “JJJ must be in mensa he’s so damn smart, and he’s probably so damn wise too. LIke king Solomon.”

    that’s not good for you, since he bet Bob, drunk in an ice cold pool, 1″ over in the HD/Bob penis size spread..

  76. Bob says:

    “As a broad example, while the masses continued moving to the suburbs, small groups of outside thinking people couldn’t believe the potential opportunity they left in their wake – beautiful (and that’s in the eye of the beholder) untouched vintage urban architecture. Dangerous, risky, frustrating, money pits that had little promise of ever paying off, but it was a chosen style of life that just had a soul to it, and the other option (where many came from and found soulless) was inconceivable.”

    You did the opposite of what everyone else was doing with little regard for immediate financial/school concerns. You got outsized returns via the urbanization trend.

    But if the SWPLs moving to Logan Square/West Town now paying huge PPSF for these properties think they’ll be as fortunate they have another thing coming. The “creative class” doesn’t give a shit about amenities as much or schools, but SWPL pretenders do. And when they crap out a kid financial considerations/whats best for their kid dominate. Not the case with artists. Most artists I know would rather be dead than move to the suburbs, and while generally they don’t have many kids as a group, the few they do don’t cause them to high-tail it out to wherever for whatevers considered best for the lil’ one in SWPL circles.

  77. anon (tfo) says:

    “while I agree that HH is being overly optimistic about travel times in MSP, you’re not talking about actual MSP “suburbs” when you mention Stillwater and Princeton”

    1. Love that you called HD “HH” on this one.
    2. His fricking example for metro Chicago was driving from Flossmoor to his parents house. I’m sure that his parents live in the heart of a massive suburban employment center. He sets it up as not about commuting to work, but getting to grandmas for Easter dinner.
    3. His example of how big Chicago is was taking the cities on the metro fringe — “portage, to joliet to geneva to crystal lake to waukegan. There are lot of places to live but communing between them just isn’t practicable” — and the impracticalability of commuting between these places on the fringe.
    4. He then, in context of the outer edge of metro Chicago, and driving from Flossmoor to Palatine, said you can drive from “one edge” of MSP to the other in 25 minutes–with “traffic”. Sure, if he means Edina to Woodbury, whatever. But even that requires typical freeway entrance to freeway exit math, not driveway to driveway where someone might actually live–as in his Flossmoor to grandmas house example.
    5. Then he pulls his HD-DH routine as his bluster and obfuscate response, hoping that no one goes back to the transcript to see what he actually suggested.

    Are you actually suggesting, Java, that you didn’t know anyone that lived in (fine not Princeton) Elk River, who knew people they might visit semi regularly living in (fine) Apple Valley? Because even I know people in MSP who live a similar ~60+ miles from family members, and I don’t know anybody. And that is the same damn thing as HD’s ‘going from Flossmoor to Grandma’s house”–an absurd pairing as a ‘daily commute’, but a totally plausible one for a weekend visit to family. And you ain’t driving from Elk River to Apple Valley in 25 minutes; you ain’t even getting from Elk River to the airport in 25 minutes (oh, that’s even a plausible commuting pair! Elk River to airport area. Not that I’d choose to live that far from work, but some do–most likely someone with Grandma in Brainerd or something).

  78. homedelete says:

    “Are you actually suggesting, Java, that you didn’t know anyone that lived in (fine not Princeton) Elk River, who knew people they might visit semi regularly living in (fine) Apple Valley? ”

    You’re missing the forest for the trees here. The point was the MSP area is smaller and has better traffic than Chicago which makes both commuting and visiting family members on Easter faster than in Chicago. There’s shorter distances and less congestion between one end of the metro area to the other. And as shown at 3:30 p.m. on a Tue afternoon you can get from one randomly chosen point far in the east to to another point far in the west in 31 minutes. That commute, flossmor in the south, to palatine in the north, would be well more than 30 minute. Of course there will be family members who live 60+ miles away and travel regularly, but that’s not the point, I don’t see what’s so difficult to understand here. I’m through with this website, I’m quitting cribchatter, I’m sure my posts won’t be missed. I’ll reappear when G and steve heitman appears. ciao!

  79. Madeline says:

    But if the SWPLs moving to Logan Square/West Town now paying huge PPSF for these properties think they’ll be as fortunate they have another thing coming.

    What “thing” do they have coming? The phrase is “they have another think coming”. Also, SWPL=?

  80. Java says:

    Wow! Didn’t realize I’d get people upset! Sorry, HD.

    Yes, you can spend a long time driving around the Twin Cities metro area (esp. if you go to the exurbs or small towns nearby, like Stillwater), too, but it really isn’t in the same ball park as Chicago, esp. when it comes to rush hour. The drives, though, even when they are long, just aren’t as bad — much less stop-and-go, crazy taxis, and swearing, not to mention not experiencing the pit of despair that descends upon me when stuck at a standstill on the Dan Ryan wondering what I did wrong in life to end up there.

  81. JJJ says:

    “Oh wait, JJJ is the authority on the subject – he says there are long commutes but Im ignorant of them”

    This kind of sums you up. I lived in the Twin Cities for a while and commuted by car – it’s no traffic paradise. The popular commutes are pretty busy and can be bad. Not as miserable as Chicago but worse than any city outside of the big 5 and major urban centers. The entrance ramp meters are enforced and can add 10 – 15 minutes during heavy traffic. They’re not as bad as they used to be, and they’re supposed to be no more than a 5 minute wait, but in practice that’s just not that case. You spent some time checking out what the internet shows at whatever random time you looked at it. Regardless of my opinion of how smart you are, you don’t realize the limit of your experiences and you don’t recognize how foolish you seem when you try to sound like you know something about something you obviously know nothing about as soon as you open your mouth (Twin Cities traffic, economics, etc.).

  82. JohnnyU says:

    Ramp meters are gone.

    HD – you aren’t getting from Maple Grove to Woodbury in 30 minutes period

    Minneapolis to Woodbury without traffic sure.

    And I live in Mpls, Hutz

  83. anon (tfo) says:

    “HD – you aren’t getting from Maple Grove to Woodbury in 30 minutes”

    What if he drive that Chevy Equinox flat out the whole way?

  84. homedelete says:

    the wife owns the equinox. I drive a corolla. 2003 to be exact. 125,000 miles. but I need a new car. I’m looking at a 2006 sentra. any opinions?

  85. homedelete says:

    btw your msp disagreement ain’t with me, it’s with google. click the link, bastards.

  86. anon (tfo) says:

    “btw your msp disagreement ain’t with me, it’s with google.”

    If you trust google driving times like that, consider yourself warned. I’ve had an experience where it was inaccurate by a factor of almost 3 (as in google said 1 hour, reality was 3), and it had nothing to do with traffic or weather.

    “click the link, bastards.”

    I, at least, figured your new ‘position’ involved phishing. No way I click your links anymore.

  87. homedelete says:

    I figured out who you were a long time ago, anon.

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