Second Biggest Story of 2016: Will the Rental Market Remain Red Hot?

Crib Chatter doesn’t cover much of what is going on in the rental market, but you’d have to be dead not to notice apartment rental tower after apartment rental tower going up all over the GreenZone.

In 2015, developers were on track to deliver a record 3100 new apartments downtown.

But they aren’t stopping there.

They are scheduled to deliver at least 3500 more in 2016 and 4500 in 2017.

Apartment rental prices at the “top” luxury buildings have hit record highs.

From Crain’s:

The average effective rent at top-tier, or Class A, buildings in downtown Chicago rose to $2.82 per square foot in the quarter, up 6.0 percent from a year earlier, according to a report from Appraisal Research Counselors. But the Class A occupancy rate slipped to 93.7 percent from 94.2 percent in third-quarter 2014.

With the downtown apartment boom stretching into its sixth year, these are the best of times for landlords, who are still filling up their buildings even as they keep jacking up rents. The average Class A apartment now rents for 36 percent more than it did at the bottom in 2009.

Appraisal Research, however, estimates that downtown apartment absorption rates are about 2500 units a year. Doing the math, that implies an excess inventory in the next few years of several thousand apartments.

A lot of individual properties have also gone rental, including condos, townhouses and even single family homes.

This 1-bedroom Dearborn Park II 3-story townhouse at 1214 S. Federal in the South Loop recently came on the market as a rental after just selling in October.

It is listed at $2199 a month.

1242 s federal dearborn II entrance

It appears that the kitchen has been renovated with new cabinets and granite counter tops and that there is a new bathroom vanity.

You can see the pictures of the townhouse rental here.

Here was the townhouse when it was listed for sale earlier this year.

1214 S. Federal #H: 1 bedroom, 1.5 baths, 1200 square feet, 1-car garage

  • Sold in October 1995 for $135,500
  • Originally listed in July 2015 for $315,000
  • Sold in October 2015 for $298,000
  • Now listed as a rental for $2199 a month
  • Assessments of $275 a month (includes exterior maintenance, scavenger, snow removal)
  • Taxes of $4598
  • Central Air
  • Washer/Dryer in the unit
  • Bedroom: 14×21 (third floor)

Will the expected big increase in inventory in the luxury rental high rises impact pricing in all of the other rentals down the chain?

Or will the rental market stay hot enough to keep prices elevated even for the smaller landlords?

 

149 Responses to “Second Biggest Story of 2016: Will the Rental Market Remain Red Hot?”

  1. I would guess that by the end of 16, Apartment rents will start seeing some pressure in the 3 to 5 year old buildings. They will respond with free month(s) rent/other incentives.

    Townhouse/SFH rents will continue to increase

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  2. Let’s do the math…
    – $298,000 selling price
    – rental of $2199 a month, $26,388/year gross income
    – Taxes of $4598, and utilities maybe $200/mo
    – $19,390 net income, divide this by the selling price of $298,000
    = 6.5% cap rate

    In this economy, that’s a very good rate of return.

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  3. “Let’s do the math…
    – $298,000 selling price
    – rental of $2199 a month, $26,388/year gross income
    – Taxes of $4598, and utilities maybe $200/mo
    – $19,390 net income, divide this by the selling price of $298,000
    = 6.5% cap rate”

    You forgot the assessments of $275/mo, and the AV went up 30%, so taxes are probably going up by about 1/3 (or more), so:

    – $298,000 selling price
    – rental of $2199 a month, $26,388/year gross income
    – Taxes of $6000 (optimistic), and utilities maybe $200/mo
    – Assessment of $275/mo
    – $14,688 net income, divide this by the selling price of $298,000
    = 4.9% “simple” cap rate, before accounting for maintenance, replacement, management and vacancy.

    Which is still decent cash on cash in the current environment, and still (barely) enough to service a mortgage (thus levering your cash on cash return), but is *definitely* relying on capital appreciation to be a real winner.

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  4. I’m out of practice, I should have subtracted the $275/mo, $3,300/year in assessments from the gross income.

    Also, have to consider if the capital improvements of the kitchen and bath has increased the home’s valuation. I’m going to ignore that for now.

    – new cap rate of approx 5.3%

    It’s still a decent rate of return for the owner. The amount of rent is fair for the renter.

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  5. anon (tfo) – I agree. My estimate is optimistic. Your estimate is more realistic.

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  6. And I skipped over the reno–it that was even $10k, that’s a further damper on the cap rate.

    I’ll assume that the owner is someone who has other properties, so they know what they are doing. For a noob (with only this property, or maybe just a couple) that skinny of a return is asking for trouble.

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  7. The rental market is and will be (in my opinion) extremely good in the city. These younger people (under 35) have a completely different mindset than the older generations for many reasons:

    – they are a much more “mobile” generation – they don’t want to be tied down

    – they have a minimalist approach to life (again – very mobile) – they are not hoarders or accumulators of tangible objects

    – they are impulsive (they will spend what little money they have on new gadgets and technology – saving for a downpayment on a house is not on their radar)

    – they are mechanically challenged – they have difficulty fixing things around the house (things that people in the past knew how to do) – I don’t blame them for this – it’s their baby boomer parents who spoiled them and never taught them how to fix things around the house

    I’m not trying to be negative – but I truly believe that this is the truth. Most of the people I work with are in their late 20s/early 30s – every single one of them falls into this category.

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  8. The rental market would be good in my opinion too.
    Not because the younger folks don’t want to buy, but because they mostly wait till they are married to buy and folks get married later these days.

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  9. The rental market is and will be (in my opinion) extremely good in the city, not because of generational attitudes or lifestyles. It’s because of the new money lending environment. The days of “no money down” is gone. Gathering a 20% down payment is a huge hurdle. It would take two people, with very good incomes, many years to accumulate 20% of the value of a green zone property.

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  10. “– they are a much more “mobile” generation – they don’t want to be tied down
    – they have a minimalist approach to life (again – very mobile) – they are not hoarders or accumulators of tangible objects

    – they are mechanically challenged – they have difficulty fixing things around the house (things that people in the past knew how to do) – I don’t blame them for this – it’s their baby boomer parents who spoiled them and never taught them how to fix things around the house
    I’m not trying to be negative – but I truly believe that this is the truth. Most of the people I work with are in their late 20s/early 30s – every single one of them falls into this category.”

    Agree 100%

    Helped 2 move in the last year, everything fit in a PU

    Outside of clothes, they really dont seem to buy tangible items and hence they’ve lost the PITA factor of moving and will chase the dragon of newer is better

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  11. its hilarious that they are so mechanically challenged… you can literally learn to do just about any home repair in minutes on youtube…

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  12. The rental market is great until the next recession and dem youngins return to the parents house. They’re already living there in record numbers.

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  13. its hilarious that they are so mechanically challenged… you can literally learn to do just about any home repair in minutes on youtube…

    You dont get a participation trophy for it

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  14. “– they are a much more “mobile” generation – they don’t want to be tied down
    – they have a minimalist approach to life (again – very mobile) – they are not hoarders or accumulators of tangible objects
    – they are impulsive (they will spend what little money they have on new gadgets and technology – saving for a downpayment on a house is not on their radar)
    – they are mechanically challenged – they have difficulty fixing things around the house (things that people in the past knew how to do) – I don’t blame them for this – it’s their baby boomer parents who spoiled them and never taught them how to fix things around the house”

    I notice these traits being predominantly displayed by men. The women I know in this age range are buying condos, learning to fix things, and still enjoying owning things like cars, etc. The number of women I know who are still single, enjoy being single (myself included) because this type of man predominates the age group. Even one of my male direct reports said recently that if he was a woman he wouldn’t bother dating because the these traits. He thought women over 30 should just give up and enjoy life without having a man, with no skills and little money, drag them down. My boss mentioned being at a club filled with lumber-jack men, which grossed her out. If only lumber-jack wannabes are still single, then count me out.

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  15. “a club filled with lumber-jack men, which grossed her out”

    Is she sure she didn’t stumble in to a bear night?

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  16. “with no skills and little money”

    Hmmm there is still a significant gender gap in earnings. How come these woman can only find men with little money?
    Is it because

    a) They earn so little themselves that even with the gender income gap, men around them are still paupers.

    b) They are not desirable to high earning men, hence they are stuck with the aforementioned paupers.

    c) They make a poor choice where and how to meet men.

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  17. Yeah, plaid shirts are “in” with the bro crowd

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  18. d) They are ugly

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  19. e) they have the personality of a shoe

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  20. The consensus with the people in the room when my boss asked that question was that bearded men in plaid lumber-jack shirts are in style.

    It’s difficult to find stats on per capita income for working people. Everything is geared towards household income. I’d be very curious to see something showing per capita income by gender and education.

    There are very few men who meet my required minimum: No beards, own a car, equal in terms of income, dress decently on a first date, own a home or are saving to own a home, intelligent, good sense of humor, kind, responsible, have a pet of some sort (fish don’t count), have no credit card debt, take care of themselves when they are sick (no, I will not baby you when you have a cold), can stand on a ladder without falling off, take responsibility for their own laundry (no, I will not pick up your dry cleaning or wash your underwear), don’t snore or willing to get treatment to stop the snoring, etc, etc.

    Most women I know meet all of these requirements. Sometimes I wish I was gay.

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  21. “per capita income by gender and education”

    Hm, lets paste that into tehgoogle, and see if anything like that exists.

    The first result is:

    http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2015/median-weekly-earnings-by-education-gender-race-and-ethnicity-in-2014.htm

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  22. f) Fail at least 5 of Jenny’s 15+ requirements.

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  23. damn me and jenny were totally compatible until that last part about snoring… too bad i’m already taken, was totally gonna get the lawyer on the line

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  24. Can I get bonus points for being able to weld and Blacksmith?

    Would that offset the snoring?

    What kind of dog do you have? (Could be a deal breaker)

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  25. Ohhh… Welding and blacksmithing get you points :)

    I think PAP machines get rid of snoring. The last person I was with refused to use one and then was angry when I slept in the guest bedroom.

    I have two dogs (which are deal breakers to some)… One is a coonhound and the other a mixed breed that even a DNA test couldn’t completely determine.

    Everyone is so picky these days that it’s surprising anyone still ends up staying together in the long term. Somehow my grandparents and parents all had/have 40+ year marriages.

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  26. Jenny,

    what if your boyfriend’s pet is a cat?

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  27. Cats are cool too. I just like the idea of men who get pets on their own to take care of and love. Maybe it’s some latent maternal instincts that I find men with pets extremely attractive.

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  28. These capthas are gaslighting me. Damn it. I know that 9×9 is 81 and 9 dots minus 1 dot is 8.

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  29. “The rental market is and will be (in my opinion) extremely good in the city, not because of generational attitudes or lifestyles. It’s because of the new money lending environment. The days of “no money down” is gone. Gathering a 20% down payment is a huge hurdle. It would take two people, with very good incomes, many years to accumulate 20% of the value of a green zone property.”

    Not sure where people get the impression that you need 20% down now. Wife and I both make very good incomes, but have significant student loan debt. Saved a down payment on only one salary and recently (October) purchased a green zone property with 5% down. In fact, I was able to generate a bidding war between a mortgage broker and a major lender for the pleasure of offering me financing.

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  30. “The consensus with the people in the room when my boss asked that question was that bearded men in plaid lumber-jack shirts are in style.”

    They are called hipsters.

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  31. Developers are building luxury rentals not just in the downtown area. There are luxury rentals being built by 3400 West Montrose, 2900 N. Central and 6500 West Palmer and Shakespeare. Plus houses for 500K at 2700 N. Hamlin and Avers. The above addresses are not in the prime neighborhood but people are beating down the doors to rent or buy in the above areas.

    The Millennial generation wants to move to the city because all of the amenities and ambiance is close to them.

    BTW I know a coworker who is renting out his 3 bedroom condo at 3300 S. Michigan Avenue for $3500 per month. He is renting it to the students who are going to the Optometrist college.

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  32. “– they are mechanically challenged – they have difficulty fixing things around the house (things that people in the past knew how to do) – I don’t blame them for this – it’s their baby boomer parents who spoiled them and never taught them how to fix things around the house”

    If you’re 22, are your parents Baby Boomers or Generation X?

    I suppose they COULD be boomers but they would be on the young edge. Boomers are like the Clintons. They are in their upper 60s. Their daughter is 36. Is she even a millennial? She is probably a young generation X.

    Is Obama a boomer? He might be among the youngest ones. So I guess it’s possible they have a 22 year old since the Obama’s daughters are even younger.

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  33. “Saved a down payment on only one salary and recently (October) purchased a green zone property with 5% down. In fact, I was able to generate a bidding war between a mortgage broker and a major lender for the pleasure of offering me financing.”

    Thanks for the first hand account, Kevin, of what’s going on out there with financing right now.

    There is a myth that it’s really hard to get a loan but it’s not. And yes, you don’t need that big of a down payment. It’s not zero down like 8 years ago but many buildings will let you buy even with 3% down. If you can’t come up with even 3% down, then something is wrong.

    So I don’t think it’s the down payment that is keeping people from buying right now- if they wanted to.

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  34. I’m come to accept the fact that everyone is rich and is earning more money than me or you.

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  35. Counter-argument, Sabrina: my wife and I have a combined income a bit over $500K (and increasing rapidly) in very traditional career paths (consulting and law) and great credit scores, but have had a hell of a time securing a mortgage. As of six months ago, the line was “if you don’t put 20% down, we can give you 700K.”

    Frankly, it’s not much of an issue — we have an undermarket rental and we’ll have plenty of cash in a year or so, but it’s a little annoying that financing is an issue when we would have been approved for god-knows-what a decade ago.

    Maybe it’s different right now — we’ll check again when our lease comes to an end — but we should be as safe a bet as there is.

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  36. “No beards, own a car, equal in terms of income, dress decently on a first date, own a home or are saving to own a home, intelligent, good sense of humor, kind, responsible, have a pet of some sort (fish don’t count), have no credit card debt, take care of themselves when they are sick (no, I will not baby you when you have a cold), can stand on a ladder without falling off, take responsibility for their own laundry (no, I will not pick up your dry cleaning or wash your underwear), don’t snore”

    I have to give it to you for the snoring thing. It is approximately 1/3 of one’s life ruined :)
    But in all seriousness, I have some advice that I hope you won’t take it the wrong way. Basically, you want someone kind and caring, but don’t want to take care of him when he is sick. I would take care of a roommate it they were sick.
    Also you want the dude to be good with traditional male roles such as fixing stuff and all, yet you hate to cook (refuse to do your traditional role).
    Most kind intelligent people want to have a relationship with another kind intelligent person who believes in reciprocity.

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  37. Did some basic research.

    Baby Boomers are those born between 1946 – 1964.

    Generation X 1965 – 1984

    Then the Millennials…. some disagreement on whether millennials begin in 1982.

    Generation Y is made up/doesn’t exist…..?

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  38. The sale links to unit H, the rental links to unit D. Are you sure this is the same unit being “flipped” as a rental and not someone who is a reluctant landlord or something else?

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  39. Jenny: you sound like hard work. Wasn’t too hard for me to find a wife despite earning less *and* being dumber than her. Must have been my shaggy long hair and dashing plaid shirt. So keep adding must-haves to that shopping list or you might end up with somebody like me.

    I’d say the rental market downtown will keep up, more-or-less, with inflation as more good jobs are added to Loop area.

    Good news for creatures like me with cash to plonk down. Good also for contractors because my millennial ass flat out refuses to be soiled with handi-work. Not cerebral enough, you understand. My wife sure does.

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  40. I hope the rental market stays good. We bought a building in 2011 and have had no problem getting renters. This summer we had a bunch of people through and 4 applicants for a small (350 sq ft) apt in one weekend. I’d like for it to stay that way, though we will have to raise prices due to our tax bill going up. I do worry that the luxury rentals might cause people to expect more out of our apartments. My hope is that if we keep our prices lower then the luxury apts, we’ll be fine.

    Jenny, I know a lot of people in your boat and totally agree on the snoring. That was a deal breaker for me. I’d cut a guy a bit more slack though, on the dog. What if he travels for work? Or has been moving around a lot because of the hot rental market? Then it could be difficult to have a pet. Have you read Aziz Ansari’s book, Modern Romance? Even if you don’t like his humor, he uses so much research and data about dating in general that it is very interesting.

    Also wanted to say how much I enjoy this blog. I’m a regular lurker, and find it highly entertaining to read at work. Thanks all.

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  41. I saved up 20% down for a 3 bedroom in the GZ in less than 3 years, its not that hard, just takes some sacrifices, and making a good dual income doesn’t hurt either

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  42. GX – you might want to consult other mortgage brokers.

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  43. ” 6500 West Palmer and Shakespeare”

    You mean new stuff behind this place?

    https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2204-N-Natchez-Ave-60707/unit-1N/home/18921897

    That’s a perfectly nice unit, but (1) it’s not “luxury”, (2) it’s pretty darn ‘affordable’, and (3) that location isn’t about ‘city conveniences/amenities’ beyond a city address.

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  44. jenny on December 29th, 2015 at 2:52 pm: There are very few men who meet my required minimum: No beards, own a car, equal in terms of income, dress decently on a first date, own a home or are saving to own a home, intelligent, good sense of humor, kind, responsible, have a pet of some sort (fish don’t count), have no credit card debt, take care of themselves when they are sick (no, I will not baby you when you have a cold), can stand on a ladder without falling off, take responsibility for their own laundry (no, I will not pick up your dry cleaning or wash your underwear), don’t snore or willing to get treatment to stop the snoring, etc, etc.

    jenny on December 29th, 2015 at 3:52 pm: Everyone is so picky these days that it’s surprising anyone still ends up staying together in the long term.

    Um…

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  45. “GX – you might want to consult other mortgage brokers.”

    Yeah, for suresies.

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  46. “Baby Boomers are those born between 1946 – 1964.”

    So, someone born in 1964 with a 22 yo kid in 2016 would have been all of 30 when that kid was born.

    Yes, the *vast* majority of Millennials (born bt ~1982 and ~2000) have Boomer parents.

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  47. I’m part the “You Have Died of Dysentery” generation. I mentioned it before on this site and think it’s moderately amusing that my age group isn’t really part of any generation:
    http://socialmediaweek.org/blog/2015/04/oregon-trail-generation/

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  48. I have two dogs (which are deal breakers to some)… One is a coonhound and the other a mixed breed that even a DNA test couldn’t completely determine.

    You can’t just say coonhound, without saying what kind

    If you’ve trained the coonhound well, you’ve done well

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  49. “I’m part the “You Have Died of Dysentery” generation.”

    From the article:

    “If you can distinctly recall the excitement of walking into your weekly computer lab session and seeing a room full of Apple 2Es displaying the start screen of Oregon Trail”

    So, apparently this reaches back to kids born in the late 60s, so long as they grew up in the right (or perhaps wrong) school districts.

    I guess Gen X basically doesn’t exist.

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  50. Jenny,

    I too am of that generation late 70’s, early 80’s generation. Explains me perfectly although I have grown up with every video game system since the 2600, and it’s amusing to watch my toddler play minecraft.

    Also, as far as getting married, the fact of the matter is that you don’t want to be married or attached to anyone, and that’s OK. I’ve known plenty of people who’ve accepted far, far less than optimal partners (substance abusers, serial cheaters, degenerate gamblers, underemployed ne’er-do-wells) because 1. it was the only suitor available at marriage time and 2. they didn’t want to be alone. Sure many have gotten divorced but at least every marriage partner goes into the deal an optimist even if it breaks down only months later (like quite a few other weddings i’ve attended over the years).

    Regardless, by our age, everyone has baggage in life – including you (even if you don’t know it) and prospects for meeting the perfect person at this stage in life are close to 0. You can meet plenty of people, but they’ll all have far more serious downsides than not being handy or being petless – they’ll have ex-wives, kids, debt, substance or health problems, etc

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  51. “No beards, own a car, equal in terms of income, dress decently on a first date, own a home or are saving to own a home, intelligent, good sense of humor, kind, responsible, have a pet of some sort (fish don’t count), have no credit card debt, take care of themselves when they are sick (no, I will not baby you when you have a cold), can stand on a ladder without falling off, take responsibility for their own laundry (no, I will not pick up your dry cleaning or wash your underwear), don’t snore”

    Jenny, the ultimate question to ask is what you have to offer to the individual that meets all/some of the requirements. Relationships are about the other person, not about you. When both partners are trying their best to help the other person, that’s when the relationship works. When that does not happen…well, we have 50% divorce rate.

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  52. the 50% divorce rate is a myth that’s been around for a long time. the divorce rate these days is actually the lowest it’s been in generations. first of all, fewer people are getting married so as a consequence there are fewer divorces. secondly, people are getting married later in life and when they do get married, they are overall making better decisions about their marriage partners. gen x’ers have some of the lowest divorce rates of all cohorts. that’s not to say that people don’t get divorced because they surely are and the courts are full, but overall the long term trend has been fewer and fewer divorces.

    on the flip side though the trend for out of wedlock child births are also at near record highs. child support courts across the county are bursting at the seams.

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  53. “the 50% divorce rate is a myth”

    “first of all, fewer people are getting married so as a consequence there are fewer divorces.”

    Um, huh? if you’re reducing the denominator, you can reduce the numerator, too, and still have a *higher* rate.

    But, yeah, the rate is decreasing–by something like 5 percentage points–and was never *really* 50%–that was comparing current year divorces to current year marriages, which isn’t a proper calculation.

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  54. the divorce rate these days is actually the lowest it’s been in generations. first of all, fewer people are getting married so as a consequence there are fewer divorces.

    Um, huh? if you’re reducing the denominator, you can reduce the numerator, too, and still have a *higher* rate.

    Sloppy writing or innumeracy? I assume HD meant that because there’s less stigma to remaining unmarried and/or living together, the (fewer number of) people who go to the trouble of getting married are more likely to stay together. Statistics bear this out – college educated, financially stable couples are, today, more likely to get married, and it’s this exact cohort that has always been most likely to stay married.

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  55. Meant to post this link: http://qz.com/306166/the-divorce-stat-that-just-keeps-cheating-50/

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  56. The “beards” thing is interesting. I’m obviously male, but not into the beard thing. My choice. But I’m not against it and why should any woman? For one thing, it shows the dude has testosterone. And secondly, only white males can grow those beards. Ever notice that when you go to a bar on Fulton St. or Randolph St. etc. there is always those 1 or two black dudes prowling the scene? Well, they cannot grow those beards, because their hair doesn’t grow right. So, too bad for them, lol. I’m glad women like the trend.

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  57. I just saw a bunch of apartment rentals listed on the windows of a real estate storefront on the north side. There were listings for several of the new high rises downtown.

    They were offering $500 off first month’s rent and 1/2 off second month’s rent (prorated through the year) to move in by January 1.

    This is for a 650 square foot 1-bedroom renting for $1900 a month. So it was in a “nice” high rise but not one of the luxury ones.

    This is the off-season for renting so I would expect more deals. It’ll be interesting, though, to see what happens in a few months when you have the big spring moving season. Renters will have a lot of choice as far as new construction.

    It seems like the inventory will really put pressure on prices at Class B buildings.

    The key is incentives. If they start offering 2 months free rent, then you’ll know they can’t find enough tenants.

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  58. “only white males can grow those beards”

    James Harden is white?!?!????!!!!??????

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  59. someone forgot to tell the muslims that they can’t grow beards… lol!

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  60. “the muslims”

    that depends on one’s definition of ‘white’ (most “Arabs” are “Caucasian”). Like it sez on census forms about ‘Hispanics’, muslims can be of any race.

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  61. well that was sort of my point… i guess

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  62. Helmet obviously doesn’t know too many black men if he thinks we can’t grow beards. Black men in Philly were rocking those thick beards long before hipsters thought it was cool…

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  63. “well that was sort of my point… i guess”

    oh. didn’t come across to me, obviously. but, yeah.

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  64. “Helmet obviously doesn’t know too many black men if he thinks we can’t grow beards.”

    He’s too scared to know many.

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  65. Jenny,

    I love that owning a pet is a requirement. As a 38 year-old Gen X-er I’ve never understood those lumber jack types. Your requirements are reasonable, with one question. I wouldn’t expect to be “babied” when sick, but what’s the point of a companion of not to turn to each other in both times of joy and illness.

    Anyway, here are my stats:
    No beard.
    Two cars.
    Graduate degree.
    High income.
    $3 million self-made net worth.
    One investment property.
    One dog (very cute).
    No credit card debt.
    No snoring, but I sometimes talk while sleeping.
    Fixing things around the house, and/or using a ladder, easy.

    My own little diatribe on dating is that it seems a lot of women are used to being around loser-type guys, so probably out of necessity they adopted a somewhat bossy alpha attitude, which can be unappealing.

    Naturally I have some of my own requirements too:
    Age: 18-28
    Slender figure.
    75th percentile or better facial looks.
    No kids (pets are ok).

    So if you have any friends like that and want to explore setting them up, put them in touch on this thread.

    Brad F.

    ——
    JENNY on December 29th, 2015 at 2:52 pm: There are very few men who meet my required minimum: No beards, own a car, equal in terms of income, dress decently on a first date, own a home or are saving to own a home, intelligent, good sense of humor, kind, responsible, have a pet of some sort (fish don’t count), have no credit card debt, take care of themselves when they are sick (no, I will not baby you when you have a cold), can stand on a ladder without falling off, take responsibility for their own laundry (no, I will not pick up your dry cleaning or wash your underwear), don’t snore or willing to get treatment to stop the snoring, etc, etc.

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  66. Correction: that last part should have read “So if YOU OR any of your friends…”

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  67. freeze your credit card?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-04/yellen-s-job-puzzle-why-are-20-somethings-retiring-

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  68. sorry its this link

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-04/young-money-solutions-for-millennial-financial-worries

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  69. Brad, you’re 38 and want to date 18 year olds? isn’t the cardinal rule to divide your age in half and add 7? that would make the bottom of your age range closer to 26. even Leo doesn’t date 18 year olds. 20 year olds maybe but he’s famous!

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  70. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2598247/Is-Ryan-Phillippe-engaged-Actors-law-student-love-Paulina-Slagter-flashes-ring-wedding-finger-date-night-Chateau-Marmont.html

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  71. Sorry, Brad, I am out of your age range. It sounds like you are looking for more of a trophy wife. If you really do have a lot of money, you can probably get one fairly easily.

    As for the “sick” thing, I enjoy taking care of someone who is actually sick and needs my help. A cold doesn’t count. Pneumonia, surgery recovery, hospitalizations, I’m there.

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  72. wait isn’t brad F the squatter in Rogers park

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  73. There is a luxury rental building being built by my hood- 3437 West Montrose. Yes, a luxury apartment rental building. It seems like a lot of wealthy Millennials want to live in the city. There are also new apartment rental buildings being built in neighborhoods that you would not even think twice about: 2900 N. Central Avenue, 6500 West Palmer and 6500 West Shakespeare. The Millennial generation has a lot of money and they are going to redefine urban living for the next 30-50 years.

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  74. “freeze your credit card?”

    That’s been around a long time. Oldest one I found on first page of results:

    http://consumerist.com/2008/06/16/stop-spending-by-freezing-your-credit-card-in-ice/

    Theory is, of course, that by the time the block of ice melts, your urge to spend on non-necessities will have ended. Counterpoint is, of course, can’t pay for a real emergency either. It’s a silly impulse control thing, that’s less relevant with so much spending possible w/o a physical card.

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  75. I thought millenials for the most part had no money

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  76. “a luxury rental building … 3437 West Montrose”

    The last info about it suggested 2/2 units at $1500/month with a parking space. That’s kinda expensive for the hood, but isn’t “luxury” pricing by any means, especially with $1m into the dirt.

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  77. “wait isn’t brad F the squatter in Rogers park”

    That’s how he saved the $3mil.

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  78. “That’s how he saved the $3mil.”

    He was long Leapfrog. Must have dumped it Aug-12 or Jul-13.

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  79. He said $3M net worth, not $3M cash. I too have a net worth of $3M. The net present value of my law degree reinvested in the stock market with an 8% annual return makes me an internet millionaire too.

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  80. “The net present value of my law degree reinvested in the stock market”

    Huh?

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  81. I have a law degree. Over the course of my life time I’m going to earn millions. Give me that millions today to reinvest it the stock market with an 8% rate of return. After 35 years that number would millions. Hence, I’m an internet millionaire, I just don’t have the money yet, but I’m expected to earn it.

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  82. Everyone is a millionaire by your standards, HD.

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  83. “Everyone is a millionaire by your standards, HD.”

    and possibly Brad’s standards too!

    But in reality, most city/county/state pensioners are too. It’s like having a $1M in the bank and drawing out $50k a year for 20 years or longer. How many current retirees w/o a pension have a cool million sitting in the bank?

    But as my rich republican relatives with fat government pensions tell me “I earned that pension.”

    Hahahhaa

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  84. Jenny,

    have you ever been engaged to marry?

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  85. “After 35 years” /= “net present value”

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  86. “But as my rich republican relatives with fat government pensions tell me “I earned that pension.”

    Hahahhaa”

    Do they also say “Obummer better keep the government’s hands off my Medicare”?

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  87. ““After 35 years” /= “net present value””

    I know anon(tfo) i’m just making up nonsense to show that I’m an internet millionaire too.

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  88. “making up nonsense”

    Well, alright then.

    But one of the Brads linked to his brokerage statement with 75,000 (or whatever) shares of Leapfrog. So it must be true.

    I still miss Internet Millionaire John squatting in the South Florida penthouses back in ’09. That was more entertaining than a 2/2 in WRP.

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  89. “There are also new apartment rental buildings being built in neighborhoods that you would not even think twice about”

    So? There are also new apartments going up in far flung suburbs. If the return pencils out, then they get built. And *millions* of people live in areas of metro Chicago that I would not choose unless in extremis.

    If you are asserting that those apartments will rent for $2.50 a foot or more, then I call BS. If not, I don’t understand the relevance.

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  90. Brad F……
    His big leapfrog investment….. 2013 $11.46 now it trades at $00.73….. this is how you become an internet millionaire….LOL

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  91. “How many current retirees w/o a pension have a cool million sitting in the bank?”

    HD: It’s really impossible to know how many have a million in the bank because there are so many different accounts. You could have an IRA and a 401k and neither would know about the balance of the other.

    But a year ago, in early 2015, with the stock market reaching new highs, Fidelity said that about 72,000 workers had amassed $1 million or more in their 401(k) retirement plans at the end of 2014. These are just the accounts Fidelity controls, obviously. It doesn’t include the thousands of accounts at Vanguard and all the other investment companies.

    And, again, even Fidelity doesn’t know if someone has $1 million outside of their account there. So they could have worked 5 others jobs and rolled over their 401ks into a massive IRA and then started work at age 50 with a company that used Fidelity and it would look like they only had a small amount saved.

    But that being said, it’s still unusual for most retirees to save $1 million. Americans just don’t save. The pension is a forced system. That’s why it works.

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  92. Brad F: welcome back. I’m assuming you moved out of the Rogers Park foreclosure place.

    Where are you living now? If you’re in River North in a swanky place I don’t see why it would be a problem getting a 20-something woman to date you. They’re all over the place at the restaurants/clubs in that neighborhood.

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  93. Wow, some of the regulars on here really do pay attention and have great memory, or perhaps I just stood out. Leapfrog shares, formerly in west rogers park, also an accomplished tennis player, that’s me.

    I was never actually a squatter b/c I had a legal right to move in and stay. I just wasn’t paying any rent, mortgage, or property taxes for like 6-7 years. But alas nothing in this world is permanent. Even though I lived there more permanently than many “owners/debtors/borrowers”. Our government sponsored overlords eventually came around and incentivized me with about 10 thousand federal reserve notes to leave peacefully, which seemed fair. Plus I was ready for a nicer ‘hood and a nicer dwelling. New place is indeed swanky and a big step up. Though my old place, a modern 3/2 was already no slouch.

    “Squating” wasn’t planned for, but I can’t deny it was a bit fortuitous, but hardly life changing. Living for free doesn’t hurt one’s bankroll, but it also doesn’t create $3 million. If it did the housing projects would be full of liquid millionaires. Somehow I doubt a lot of people save and get net-worthed out of public aid.

    One thing HD has right is that if you use fuzzy enough logic and informercial worthy backwardation math EVERYONE is a millionaire. Born rich even. A 12 year old junior gangbanger drop-out born to a crack-wheure mother and an unknown father, yep millionaire (imagine the net present value of all of the hand-outs over the next 100 years, or the public cost of imprisoning such person). I suppose the difference is in what the financial world counts as net worth. If I (or those with equivelent or better net worth) walk into a bank, they’d hand me up to $3 million of assets or instruments. If HD walks in and tries that with his law degree they are going to say he OWES THEM money. Along the same line, the pauper or gangbanger can’t receive a lumpsum payment of all his future public assistance or public costs, like it’s a gdam lottery ticket.

    In dating, I’m skeptical that many worthwhile girls would go out with a guy just bc he had a couple or few million. It’s all a matter of perspective. When I was a broke college student, the idea of making $60k seemed well off. Then after one makes a million or three, one realizes that it has little effect. It’s good, but it is still a middle-class amount of money. The idea that such an amount would make it easy to pull all matter of primo tail, I think is a fallacy of those without that ballpark of resources. Rockstars, celebrities, pro-ballers can do that. They stand apart from the horde with high status and street cred. But a few million? What separates a few million NW from every typical office-worker joe? Not much. You’re still going to the same places, driving similar cars, having the same concerns, living in similar dwellings and ‘hoods.

    LeapFrog. How could anyone not see that trainwreck coming. Anyone who saw a child use an iPad knew LF was set to plunge. Yeah, I’m down $150k plus looking to get back in at a bottom. Is that amount going to affect my life, even if it goes to zero, nah.

    Speaking of how to go from well-off to broke, going for a “trophy wife” is probably a well worn path. I don’t plan on falling for that trap.
    I do truly believe in love, but I also believe money makes people do things. As such I’d be more interested in a “trophy girlfriend”. A youthful one who can go find a sucker to father her progeny a bit later in life. People age badly, money ages well. In a collision of biology and finance the results are sometimes beautiful, sometimes ugly.

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  94. Hi Jenny,

    Since you’re a woman I’m going to take your word that this is true, and think about it in a open minded way. So as a practical matter and purely honest question, how would a 38 year old guy with $3 mill easily get a “trophy” wife or gf? Step one, hang out in nice areas like RN or prime LP. But from there? Then what? One surely can’t just say that he has some money. Even alluding to it tangentially I would think could be repulsive.

    Any detailed actionable tips from a woman’s perspective would be greatly appreciated.

    —-
    JENNY: Sorry, Brad, I am out of your age range. It sounds like you are looking for more of a trophy wife. If you really do have a lot of money, you can probably get one fairly easily.

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  95. “In dating, I’m skeptical that many worthwhile girls would go out with a guy just bc he had a couple or few million.”

    You got that right. Worthwhile women get impressed by intelligence, knowledge, good attitude. For instance, if I were single and looking, I would consider going out with anon because he is smart and actually can use his brain to make logical deductions. I wouldn’t want to spend my life with someone who cannot make a constant argument or a debate or even worth produce kids with someone like that.

    I don’t know you Brad and you might be a great guy, but your posts look so shallow. You can just say I am financially independent and looking for someone and let the someone later on learn you have money (if you do). It is so tacky and new money to bring it up. Talk about your interest and see if you can find someone compatible with you. Say if you like sports (tennis was a good one), like to travel, speak a few languages, etc…

    Also a 38 year old looking to date an 18 year old is just creepy.

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  96. constant >>> consistant

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  97. Who’s hot for who on CC…… A new one hits the list.
    HD & Jenny
    Bob & HH
    Bri & Chuck
    And now MM & Anon

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  98. Sabrina and Chuk had their little lovers quarrel last week…..the tension was palpable…

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  99. Brad, there are some ways to pick up trophy girlfriends, but it involves preying on people with low self esteem and little money. I don’t want to give you tips in that area.

    If you want to meet someone who can be an equal in a relationship, you are going to have to up your age range or at least take teenagers off your list. It’s going to creep a lot of women out that you are OK with dating a woman in her teens. It makes me think you want to be in a position of power over your partner and that will be very unattractive to women with self confidence.

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  100. yeah brad, lil advice, its half your age +7 years is the acceptable age

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  101. “So as a practical matter and purely honest question, how would a 38 year old guy with $3 mill easily get a “trophy” wife or gf? Step one, hang out in nice areas like RN or prime LP. But from there? Then what?”

    that is just a terrible idea… if you enjoy the money you have worked hard to save or whatever why would you want a trophy wife or gold digger!

    But if you’re really into that, I’d start at the Godfrey hotel either Dolce or the patio lounge whatever on the 4th (i think) floor… lots of pretty ladies there that look the part anyway

    omfg these capchas!

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  102. ““Helmet obviously doesn’t know too many black men if he thinks we can’t grow beards.”

    Lol. A fro on your chin doesn’t count as a hipster beard or lumberjack beard. The Isley Brothers-look is not what we’re talking about.

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  103. “LeapFrog. How could anyone not see that trainwreck coming. Anyone who saw a child use an iPad knew LF was set to plunge.”

    vs

    “Yeah, I’m down $150k plus looking to get back in at a bottom”

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  104. I thought I would share this list of worst suburbs in the Chicagoloand area as prepared by a low brow infotainment website: http://www.roadsnacks.net/worst-chicago-suburbs/

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  105. “list of worst suburbs in the Chicagoloand area”

    Why only the 24 largest?

    Why only Cook County???

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  106. “Speaking of how to go from well-off to broke, going for a “trophy wife” is probably a well worn path. I don’t plan on falling for that trap.”

    But you’re leading with your money. All you’ve done is tell us you are worth $3 million and, whine, whine, the lawyer with the $200k in debt can buy and do everything you can do in your life (so- really- what’s the point of the money then?) It sounds like you have little else to offer a woman which is why you think your money doesn’t differentiate you. Because it really doesn’t.

    #1 rule: be interesting.

    You don’t need money for that.

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  107. “It sounds like you have little else to offer a woman which is why you think your money doesn’t differentiate you. Because it really doesn’t.”

    Uhm, so you’re saying that I’m right then? It does differentiate me or it doesn’t (which is my philosophy on it). I take offense to the accusation that I “lead with money”. I do nothing of the sort, which is why I would hardly feel comfortable with a golddigging trophy. I’ve experienced people who lead with money, and it’s a pretty clear indicator that they are likely vile; money presumably being their best quality even by their own generous judgement. Grad degree, no beard, pet owner, even tennis player all lead money for me. Until I recently moved to a nicer place, which was a reluctant move, few people would guess I had that amount. I live far below my means. Heck I was in a bank-owned squat. I have a lot to offer, but one thing I don’t have to offer is money. A golddigger-type would extract far more gold out of a spendthrift debtor rather than a tightwad like me. What I do have to offer is an analytical mind also capable of creating things and thinking in ways apart from the herd. This does differentiate me. Which indirectly lead to the resources. But the mind comes before, and exists independently of, the money that rains down as a result of my thoughts and actions.

    As far as the guy with $200k in debt vs me. Yes, there are indeed things a man with money can do that he cannot. First and foremost is legitimately comport himself with dignity (unless and until he pays it off in some distant future). To be in debt is the equivalent of being a slave or a work animal. Forced to do the bidding without question of those possessing resources. For thousands of years, those who accrued such debts had their wives and daughters taken from them just as soon as their gamble or ability to keep up with payments exceeded them (to be exchanged based on how close the women were were to around age 18). Such is the natural order of mankind for most of our history. To be a significant debtor is to risk not only your own freedom but the dignity of those you love. Sadly most people are debtors.

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  108. “(to be exchanged based on how close the women were were to around age 18)”

    Well, that’s right in your wheelhouse…

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  109. “First and foremost is legitimately comport himself with dignity (unless and until he pays it off in some distant future).”

    There is less dignity in squatting than having a mortgage. I wasn’t going to say it, but being a squatter is extraordinarily unattractive. It shows a lack of integrity and honesty.

    HD took loans to go to school and then actually participated in his chosen profession. It sounds like he is paying it off himself and not relying on his family. I don’t get the impression that he is scheming his way out of paying off the loans. This shows integrity.

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  110. Yeah, give someone credit for not scheming out of student loans which are legally not dischargeable under any circumstances. Sounds like great integrity to me. Just to be clear I am not and never was a squatter. Was just alluding to how I frugally, yet legally, lived in a bank-owned foreclosure. During that time I became a property owner with free and clear title at a different location. Sort of the opposite of a debtor. Perhaps HD will eventually pay off his debts and own his own name in the future, perhaps not. If not him in particular defaulting there are others. The same is true with mortgagors and their homes. There is a bubble of debt, both mortgages and student loans.

    To argue against the attractiveness of younger women vs older, well you might as well be arguing with a billion years of nature and evolution. To condemn such, sounds like the church talking.

    For every dollar borrowed there is a dollar lent. Creditors make debtors possible. People like me make it possible. This seems lost on many debtors. Read some history of debt, finance, economics and know that it is full of people extending themselves on rock solid plans of future earnings. The difference now is that loans are regularly extended to 25-30 years (student and home), over a third of a human lifespan or over half of one’s years as an adult. When it all crashes and it will, the leverage, malinvestment, and pain is that much greater. Students suing their schools is a warning sign.

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  111. “pay off his debts and own his own name in the future”

    Ain’t no one in the USA who has no debts. Especially if they “own” real estate.

    “Students suing their schools is a warning sign.”

    They’re suing “schools” that were really organizations established to defraud the government. They’d all be defendants in qui tam actions, except for the structuring whereby the “students” were paying with borrowed money. Note the different situation where the fraud-stitutions were paid directly by DOD for ex-mil students.

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  112. I believe ‘Brad F.’ is merely the latest pseudonym for the person who’s been posting on CC as HH, Dan etc. Brad F.’s promulgating identical misogynistic BS & justifying it same way HH/ Dan does. Just my opinion.

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  113. “the latest pseudonym”

    That’d be a long game, then. Brad F. has a distinct history on the cc.

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  114. “I was never actually a squatter b/c I had a legal right to move in and stay. I just wasn’t paying any rent, mortgage, or property taxes for like 6-7 years. But alas nothing in this world is permanent. Even though I lived there more permanently than many “owners/debtors/borrowers”. Our government sponsored overlords eventually came around and incentivized me with about 10 thousand federal reserve notes to leave peacefully, which seemed fair.”

    This does not speak to integrity. It speaks to cheating the system. Anyone who doesn’t have to pay housing costs for 6-7 years PLUS get paid off by the government is going to be well-off. If you were paying for your housing, you probably wouldn’t be a millionaire now.

    Oh…and yes, younger women are more physically attractive, but you won’t have an equal relationship with a teenager and will be looked down upon by your peers.

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  115. note to self: Add “no squatters” to Jenny’s ever growing list of requirements.

    side note: If they have > 1:1 ratio of toilets to humans, does that give them a pass on anything?

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  116. “side note: If they have > 1:1 ratio of toilets to humans, does that give them a pass on anything?”

    If he agrees with me on my toilet philosophy, but can’t stand on a ladder without falling off, I will give him a pass on the ladder. He needs to accept that he can’t stand on a ladder without falling off though and not attempt to stand on a ladder. Seeing someone fall off a ladder and injure himself is traumatic!

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  117. The pay-off I received was a result of an interventionist liberal nanny-state type government (and the people who vote for it). $11,000 is due to non-mortgagors whose dwelling gets foreclosed. I would never have passed such ridiculous laws, which go along with many other ridiculous interventionist laws in housing. But only a fool would turn it down.

    The nanny-state perpetual child/student society being fostered is the reason why you’re experiencing “men” in the dating pool who literally can not help themselves, whether that is with a hammer, ladder, or financially. Such a man might go out with an older woman if she can pick up the tab or fulfill some mom-like role for him. Oh, yes, on the other hand the guy who manages to get a significantly younger attractive woman, yes imagine all the ridicule he must endure from his peers, talk about traumatic.

    I’m not racist, antisemitic, or Jewish, but why is it that Jews and Jewish owned businesses often lend money to Black and Hispanic Americans. But rarely, if ever, do you see a Jew indebted to a Black or Hispanic person or business. In a similar vein you typically see people highly competent with math/finance who are the lenders and the flunkies on the borrower side. I wonder why that is. But somehow debt is grand.

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  118. TL-WR710N

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  119. ^^You can thank the captcha timeout for that post. What I tried to post was:

    I bet Brad F. doesn’t get invited to many parties.

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  120. Brad doesn’t need a girlfriend, he needs call girls.

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  121. “But rarely, if ever, do you see a Jew indebted”

    Lots of Jewish high-margin hedge fund types exist. It’s commonplace to use debt to amass fortunes in post-industrial America.

    Go look at the mortgages they have up in Highland Park. The image of the wealth is created using debt. Cars too. Leased.

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  122. “Oh, yes, on the other hand the guy who manages to get a significantly younger attractive woman, yes imagine all the ridicule he must endure from his peers, talk about traumatic.”

    Did it ever occur to anyone that the older woman, even a 30-something, wouldn’t want to date Brad? She wants younger too. Men in their late 20s and early 30s are in SUCH better shape than the guy who is approaching 40. And they usually still have their hair!

    So maybe there is a reason Brad, and other late 30-somethings, have to go SO much younger?

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  123. “HD took loans to go to school and then actually participated in his chosen profession. It sounds like he is paying it off himself and not relying on his family. I don’t get the impression that he is scheming his way out of paying off the loans. This shows integrity.”

    If HD took out $200M to got to a 3rd tier law school I would question his intelligence

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  124. “If HD took out $200M to got to a 3rd tier law school I would question his intelligence”

    I question your intelligence for making such a stupid comment.

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  125. “She wants younger too. Men in their late 20s and early 30s are in SUCH better shape than the guy who is approaching 40. And they usually still have their hair!”

    What makes you think younger men want to date or marry older women? That’s a false image/story line created by TV script writers. Guys won’t actually date older women, but rather use them for pump-n-dump one nighters etc. That’s the reality.

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  126. You’ve got it backwards HH, the cougars use the younger men for the one nighters. Older women go for even older men; and as they say, older women dating older men can have their choice of any two, but not three, of the following: looks, money & brains.

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  127. I certainly don’t want to date someone much younger than me. I would prefer no more than 5 years younger or 10 years older. If there’s too much of an age difference, you don’t have as many shared experiences. I had a relationship with someone older and it was culture shock.

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  128. “I had a relationship with someone older and it was culture shock.”

    Had no idea what ‘you have died of dysentery’ referred to?

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  129. Brad F posted “The pay-off I received was a result of an interventionist liberal nanny-state type government (and the people who vote for it). $11,000 is due to non-mortgagors whose dwelling gets foreclosed. .I’m not racist, antisemitic, or Jewish, but why is it that Jews and Jewish owned businesses often lend money to Black and Hispanic Americans. But rarely, if ever, do you see a Jew indebted to a Black or Hispanic person or business. …”
    He’s a bald fabricator (“$11k is due non-mortgagors” – on which planet BF?), he’s a woman hater, he’s racist & antisemitic. Ok, if BF isn’t HH just posting under another alias, Brad F’s his brother by the same mother. Just my opinion.

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  130. “I had a relationship with someone older and it was culture shock.”

    That can happen even without an age difference. What if someone gets married at 23 and has 2 kids by the age of 27. They divorce at age 35. If that person dates someone who is 30 and has never been married and never has kids and still lives at home with the parents, it would be a huge divide to relate to the life of the 35 year old with two small children, possibly a house and a minivan. Just different life experiences.

    I think life experiences are more important than age.

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  131. What makes you think younger men want to date or marry older women?

    No it’s not.

    Here’s a Hollywood example: Aaron Taylor Johnson and Sam Johnson. They have 2 kids. 23 years age difference. He’s 24 and she’s 48.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3045469/People-call-Benjamin-Button-reveals-hubbie-Sam-Taylor-Johnson.html

    But the reality is- for BOTH sexes- it’s not common for there to be a big age difference. It happens, but the idea that 38 year old Brad F is going to end up with someone who is 22 years old is just not going to happen. People want to date someone who is like themselves. They want to marry someone who is also like themselves. That usually (but not always) means similar ages because they have similar experiences.

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  132. Also, I was just reading this NYT article over the weekend about financial writer Jane Bryant Quinn. She is 76. Just married her second husband after being widowed. He is 64.

    But don’t worry, Helmethofer says younger men NEVER marry older women.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/realestate/jane-bryant-quinns-upper-west-side-home.html?_r=0

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  133. “She is 76. Just married her second husband after being widowed. He is 64.”

    I feel like the “similar age” range expands with age. I’d argue that a 20yo and a 30yo are vastly different while a 30yo and a 40yo are much closer and there is essentially no gap between an 70yo and a 80yo.

    It all comes down to life experience: 20yo’s have none, 30-60yo’s have some, 60+ have lots.

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  134. “But don’t worry, Helmethofer says younger men NEVER marry older women.”

    That is not what he said. It is true that from biological viewpoint young men don’t have an incentive to go after older women. On the other hand, older men have a strong incentive to chase younger fertile women.

    That being said, there are many other factors besides child bearing that influences modern day relationships. I know of a very wealthy 80 year old women who married a 30 year old man and we all knew why :)

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  135. “I know of a very wealthy 80 year old women who married a 30 year old man and we all knew why”

    Keep me in the loop if that doesn’t work out…

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  136. like square footage, age is just a number

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  137. “Just my opinion.”

    southbound, you are gender fluid, tending towards having way too much estrogen. You should follow the path of Caitlyn Jenner, you’d finally be happy in life.

    PS I don’t know how much TV or “women’s magazines” everyone here reads, but there is no denying the fact that most women over 40, including these so-called “cougars”, are downright almost unfckable, and no sane guy could get it up dealing with it. Think of Lisa Madigan divorced. She’s like your average Chicago woman, maybe even better. Who would want her as some “cougar”? HD, you are brainwashed by TV or something, not living in reality. How about some “cougar” who just left her marriage in Hoffman Estates or Lansing? Wow, I bet she’s really hot. You are all seriously deranged!

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  138. HH: alcohol. and that many men are seriously dogs that will get with anything that moves. old, fat, diseased, informed. sometimes I think you believe that Your reality is the only reality, but 3 mins on pornhub would show you that the world is not really the way you perceive it to be. and if you think that all 45-50 year old Cougars look like overweight housewives with short hair, then really, you need to get out more. or you’re way too young (posting like your a 50 year old) to know what you’re taking about.

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  139. Young guys flirt with me all the time… what’s funny is its more the young guys than then ones in my age group..

    pornhub HD, I just googled it…….. so this is where you spend your free time?

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  140. “pornhub HD, I just googled it…….. so this is where you spend your free time?”

    I read about the site and others like it in some internet article. It would be a good place for HH to visit.

    But that being said, I’ve always thought that HH was like 50-60 years old, some old crusty white guy from the NS who hate jews (why live in the NS if you’re so anti-semetic? Makes no sense to me) but his comment about cougars and older women makes me reconsider his age. Maybe he is a 24-25 year old kid posing here, and his comments that all cougars are suburban housewives from Hoffman Estates. He’s not interested in cougars because he’s 25 and looking at 22 year olds. Maybe when he’s 40 he’ll understand cougars more.

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  141. “I read about the site and others like it in some internet article.”

    Ah, the old “research purposes”

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  142. Between his GILF fantasies and $200M in bad Law School debt no wonder he had to move out to the ‘burbs

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  143. If anything this thread illustrates the drastic differences in the mindset of men and women. My general opinion is that men are going for beauty (that means youthfulness when we can get it) and women are going for good father/provider indicators, like stability (to stick with them) and resources (meaning money). The idea that a man wouldn’t want to date a much younger beautiful woman out of fear of being ridiculed by his friends, is literally laugh inducing. Pulling off such a feat gets more of a “wow I wish i were you” type of response. Pretty much the very last thing I would require from a woman would be “similar life experiences”. Now on the other end of the spectrum, a loser type guy with not much money or who is loaded with debt who is going with an older woman, now he might have something to be embarrassed about with his friends. Now, even if she’s rich, people can see the financial sense in that for him, but that would still be something embarrassing. I’m going to be 40 in less than 18 months, I will probably be even a bit more well off then too, nope no cougars in my future.

    As far as whether I really got a check from the regime for vacating my 3/2, it’s called the Keeping Chicago Renting Ordinance (KCRO for short). It basically means if your pad gets foreclosed and you’re not listed on the mortgage you gets paid. $10-12k, no questions. Which is nice, but really doesn’t matter unless you got student loans to pay or something. I could post a image of the actual check if you don’t believe me, but if you are one of those people then you don’t deserve it.

    Now as far as the feasibility of dating, bedding, wedding much younger women. If you are are solvent, worth a couple mill, debt free, smart, not hideous looking, perhaps even funny, I can’t see any reason why not. In fact as a 38 year old I had several dates with a remarkably attractive loyola undergrad this past fall. I possess pictures if you don’t believe me, but if you are one of those people then, naturally, you don’t deserve those either.

    And since you might be wondering, don’t ad hominem attack me as some creep who pulls out a camera on some unsuspecting girl. She sent those pics to me unprompted. We never did stuff like that in my day (heck we didn’t have phones capable of such). But I guess that’s how the “selfie-generation” does it. If they like you you’re gonna get some smokin hot high resolution pics made just for you right to your phone, without even asking.

    Other differences I noticed is that younger women these days are much more eager to talk about and try kinky stuff too. So basically cougars have absolutely nothing on them (unless you’re looking for $ which isn’t my situation).

    Wow, I just took this conversation to a whole new level again. But you can go back to justifying levered-up 30-year amortized purchases of crap boxes, mcmansions, and dubious law career based debt repayment programs now.

    —–
    …but the idea that 38 year old Brad F is going to end up with someone who is 22 years old is just not going to happen. People want to date someone who is like themselves…

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  144. Brad, while I can respect your old school opinions on gender and dating, i don’t judge anyone – but I don’t find it unsurprising that you’re a bachelor. if I were an Internet three millionaire I, like most men, would have snagged the prettiest coolest and most down to earth wife I could convince to marry me. smart, wise men find a life partner. and that wouldn’t be too hard with $3M and good looks. there’s an old saying out there that any eligible bachelor of a certain isn’t single because of his choosing, it’s because no woman had ever seriously considered marrying him.

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  145. Brad, you say yourself that you are a cheapskate, so you don’t really have money on your side. Do you have looks on your side?

    That being said, anyone can manipulate someone with lower self esteem. Woman with low self esteem behave like your date behaved. I’m sure you can find a young woman with low self esteem to manipulate. It’s just depressing and gross.

    Unless your friends are scum of the earth, they are going to be disgusted by you dating a high school girl.

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  146. The part Brad left out about the 18 year old Loyola frosh is that he paid her $250 an hour to spend time with him!

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  147. How the heck did a forum about Chicago real estate turn away from the relevant subject matter? This is why so many blogs, forums and message boards turn off people who would otherwise make wonderful contributions. On this board there are a handful of people who make outrageous statements just so they can get the attention that they desperately need.

    Sabrina this is your blog, take control of it. The best thing other regulars on this blog can do to anyone who makes statements that scream for attention is to ignore them.

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  148. So she was pre-law?

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  149. “The idea that a man wouldn’t want to date a much younger beautiful woman out of fear of being ridiculed by his friends, is literally laugh inducing.”

    Up to a point. I think “date” a much younger woman wouldn’t be ridiculed so much as ending up with one. Same for women. I’d be all for my 38 year old friends “dating” a 23 year old, but marrying one? Laughable.

    Do you want to get married or not Brad F?

    I’ve seen men approach 40 and panic because they were still single. Suddenly it dawned on them that the 23 year olds thought they were old (losing the hair does that) and that they might not be able to find a wife after all. All of their friends were married and had kids. They were kind of left out of the next stage of life.

    Actually, I’ve found that more single men have mid-life crises than women.

    If it’s soooo easy for you to get a 23 year old Brad F, you should be killing it on all the dating sites. You must be a star on Tinder. But I bet all you’d hear on there was crickets from the younger women (as long as you were giving your real age.)

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