Rarely Available 3-Bedroom Gold Coast Triplex in Former Mansion: 857 N. Dearborn
This 3-bedroom triplex up in 857 N. Dearborn in the Gold Coast just came on the market.
It’s in the middle of the building in the picture above with the black door.
According to the listing, this was a landmark mansion that was built after the Chicago fire by Treat and Foltz Architects.
It has limestone stairs and entry, custom solid walnut entry doors, and the large windows that were the norm in mansions in this area at that time.
This occupies the top floors in a 2-unit building which has three outdoor spaces, including 2 back decks and a private rooftop deck which has interior access (no walking outside to get there.)
The listing describes the back decks as having a “newer steel frame.”
There are two original wood burning fireplaces along with one gas one.
It has vaulted ceilings and skylights in the main staircase at the center of the unit.
The kitchen has wood cabinets and stainless steel appliances.
The master suite is on the second floor along with a sitting room/family room and the only full bath in the unit.
There’s a half bath on the first floor.
The listing says there is a new furnace and air conditioning. The property also has some of the other features buyers look for including washer/dryer in the unit.
Additionally, the listing says there is parking, which is $40,000 extra. Is there a garage in the back or on the alley or is it in a nearby building? It’s unclear from the listing.
It’s located just steps away from the popular Washington Park and all the restaurants/shops of the Gold Coast and the Mag Mile.
This property last sold in 1996.
Will this unique property go under contract this week?
Elizabeth Amidon at Jameson Sotheby’s has the listing. See the pictures and floor plan here.
Unit #2: 3 bedrooms, 1.5 baths, 1650 square feet
- Sold in December 1989 for $250,000
- Sold in August 1996 for $245,000
- Currently listed for $610,000 (plus $40,000 for parking- not sure where it’s located)
- Assessments of $150 a month (includes exterior maintenance, scavenger, snow removal)
- Taxes of $10,161
- Central Air
- Washer/dryer in the unit
- 2 original wood burning fireplaces
- 1 gas fireplace
- Bedroom #1: 13×10 (third floor)
- Bedroom #2: 16×16 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 14×13 (fourth floor)
- Family room/sitting room: 14×13 (second floor)
- Laundry room: 3×3 (second floor)
- Deck: 18×9 (second floor)
- Deck: 18×9 (third floor)
- Private rooftop deck: 18×14 (fourth floor)
At first glance I’d say this looks like quite the bargain.
Before I looked at the photos I thought this might be the deal of the century.
After looking at the photos, I think it is a super nice home however it is not a three bedroom, it is clearly a very large two bedroom.
The dings are a lack of master bath (but that wouldn’t actually bother me.) This home has so many gorgeous details and has been lovingly maintained. The roof deck appears to be accessed from only one of the bedrooms? Not sure if that is correct – – I thought there would have to be two modes of egress from the roof. The fact that you half to walk through a bedroom however is another ding against this unit.
that old timey toilet is amazing. I had one just like it in a dollhouse growing up.
This unit is quite perfect for a couple who does not intend to have kids or for someone who wants a really cool pied a terre in the city. I do love it and think there is an outside chance that the right buyer comes quickly and possibly even pays between $575K – $625K for this.
The taxes seem really low to me, particularly given this amazing location near bughouse square!!
I want to edit my estimated sale price range – – this is the type of place that is so unique and full of character that the right buyer in the right market (and this is a pretty good market), may be so emotionally attached (love at first sight), that in order to “win” this unit, they pay well over ask. $650k with the parking is totally believable….as is $700K if someone really swoons (and the type of person who would like this unit I am guessing will really like this unit).
You only need two means of egress if the deck is over a certain size (300 sf) and under forty some feet in height. Common roof decks are a different beast entirely.
“You only need two means of egress…”
And it was built after a certain date, and if you actually got permits for it.
That said, note the stairs up in pic 31–they go to the roof and provide a 2d egress.
Nice place, but not nice location. It’s very close to the Chicago/State intersection, which has a lot of police activity. And, it’s very close to the Lawson House SRO (affordable housing), which has another set of issues.
Maybe it’s improved a lot since I was in the area, but I used to see a lot of headlines like this:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-homicide-lawson-ymca-20180513-story.html
I’m very close with a couple who lives around the block from Lawson. Their area isn’t perfect, by any means, but they’ve lived there 12 years and I’ve never heard them complain about Lawson. Just one example, of course. Others’ experiences could differ.
“Nice place, but not nice location. It’s very close to the Chicago/State intersection, which has a lot of police activity. And, it’s very close to the Lawson House SRO (affordable housing), which has another set of issues.”
Lol!
This is literally 2 blocks north of Chicago.
Developers are building million dollar condos across from the YMCA. Literally. Starting at a million dollars and going up. They are building a massive Whole Foods there as well. Along with another luxury apartment tower.
But I guess no one will move in even though it’s right across the street from the YMCA.
Lol.
I like the pictures in the listing. Kudos also for the floor plan.
How many other units are there in this mansion?
“Nice place but not nice location….”
Frankly, in Chicago, everywhere is two blocks from something “undesirable”. If you need to be surrounded by rich, white people at every turn, fly your freak flag and move to Lake Forest and call it a day.
@GoneFishin
Couldn’t have said it better so I’ll repeat:
“If you need to be surrounded by rich, white people at every turn, fly your freak flag and move to Lake Forest and call it a day”
LMAO!
“How many other units are there in this mansion?”
The listings says 2 units. The other one is below this one, in the lower level.
But it looks like the whole building was once the mansion. There’s probably 6 units in total.
“looks like the whole building was once the mansion”
It looks like it was 3 rowhouses. Big ones, for sure, but not what I thin of when I hear “mansion”.
“It looks like it was 3 rowhouses. Big ones, for sure, but not what I thin of when I hear “mansion”.”
The description calls it a mansion. I’m assuming they built it for one family after the Chicago fire. That was 150 years ago. Lots of buildings are reconfigured over the years.
The Art Institute has a whole archival image and media collection. Maybe you can figure it out?
http://digital-libraries.saic.edu/cdm/search/collection/mqc/searchterm/Treat%20and%20Foltz/mode/exact
“The description calls it a mansion.”
Yea, and lots of descriptions say that the house is in the attendance area for a selective enrollment school.
Which should I believe, the realtor, or my lyin’ eyes?
“Which should I believe, the realtor, or my lyin’ eyes?”
anon(tfo), it’s not what you see, its what you want to ‘believe’ and if you believe enough, like really really believe, just like Peter Pan, it all becomes true. It all starts with how you phrase things. A progressive tax rate is now a ‘fair’ tax; a 0.5% cut is ‘tax relief’; murdering a 9 month old child in the birth canal is ‘health care’ and the body parts are ‘excised genetic waste’. And if you want to believe that this home is in the attendance area for a selective school, then you should believe hard enough, and make it happen through some good old fashion graft.
Why you gotta be like Hof, HD? Why bring abortion on the CC?
We’re murdering 9 month olds in the birth canal now HD?
WTF!
So tired of the extremists and the lies about women’s health.
Even more important to elect MORE women to higher office, nominate them to the bench and get them into the CEO jobs at fortune 500 companies. And wait for the old generation to die off.
“Which should I believe, the realtor, or my lyin’ eyes?”
Did you look it up at the Art Institute?
I guess not.
The architects are quite famous. They designed lots of big mansions if you consult the Art Institute which houses some of their drawings.
1500 square feet would have been a very strange rowhouse built in that era which was quite wealthy. There’s not even a back staircase for the servants, for instance.
1500 sq ft only covers the top unit. The lower unit (sold in 2011) is roughly 1400
Sq. Ft. So the entire rowhome is about 3,000 sq ft total. My guess is the top unit will sell for $575-$600K.
“Why you gotta be like Hof, HD? Why bring abortion on the CC?”
I didn’t bring it up – the state of IL did. In its infinite wisdom, with infrastructure crumbling, and pension obligations exploding, and the state hemorrhaging people – an extreme and out of touch north sider progressive state rep decided that *the most important thing* to address right now is the expansion of abortion in the state, to make IL the abortion capital of the United States. That aside, other than attracting a few thousand abortion tourists for a few hours, who will then leave the state shortly thereafter, how does this affect the hemorrhaging of people from the state? 30 years from now, when there are fewer people in the state, and in addition to vast swaths of the south side, southern suburbs, and down state counties being empty, how does this help pay our pension obligations? It’s so frustrating to live in this state, we are the laughing stock of the country.
“It isn’t just the wealthy, who tend to be older, leaving. A new study by demographer William Frey of the migration patterns of millennials (those aged 22 to 38) found that Chicago ranks as the third-least attractive among the nation’s 53 largest metro areas, losing an average of nearly 19,000 more young adults than it gains every year. Those losses account for the bulk of millennial flight from Illinois, which similarly ranks below all but two states in trying to attract young adults. ”
https://www.city-journal.org/chicago-housing-market
Read the comments section at the article, we are literally the laughing stock of the country. These people think they are virtuously, but everyone is laughing at us behind our backs and surrounding states are attracting the regions smartest and best.
“For years, Illinois colleges and universities have tried to find new ways to attract more high school graduates from within the state, while young people increasingly are choosing to pursue their degrees elsewhere.
New data show the problem is only getting worse.
Figures released by the Illinois Board of Higher Education show that 48.4 percent of Illinois public high school graduates enrolled in four-year universities in 2017 attended out-of-state institutions.
That’s up from 46.6 percent in 2016 and about 45 percent in 2015.”
Chicago Tribune article – “Illinois losing even more high school graduates to out-of-state colleges”
They’re leaving and they’re not coming back. Does State Rep Kelly Cassidy really believe that making IL the abortion capital of the country will really make college students think twice about leaving? I mean really?
Just for comparison, the cities with the lowest millennial growth are:
Birmingham -0.6%
Chicago 0.2%
Toledo 0.5%
St. Louis 0.9%
Youngstown 1.0%
Jackson 1.2%
Milwaukee 1.4%
Syracuse 1.5%
Dayton 1.7%
Salt Lake City 1.9%
And in 10-15 years from now, when these millennials have set down roots and have families, it won’t be here in IL. But hey, marijuana is almost legal now!
It scares the crap out of me that IL’s baby making age population is leaving, disappearing, saying “bye bye” to chicago and to IL. Who will you sell your home to in 25 years when its time to retire, if the population of the state is less than it is today? This is an enormous problem, but our state legs are just sticking their fingers in their ears and doing their ‘progressive’ agenda, because they hate Trump. They’ll burn down the entire state, and our housing market in the process, because they hate Trump. So sad.
“Read the comments section at the article, we are literally the laughing stock of the country.”
Based on those comments, we’re the laughing stock of Dan-Hof’s knitting circle. Whopp-dee-f’ing-doo.
“Based on those comments, we’re the laughing stock of Dan-Hof’s knitting circle. Whopp-dee-f’ing-doo.”
Laugh it off at your own peril. We are the laughing stock of the country. And residents and college students are voting with their feet and Chicago is the second least desirable city in the nation for young people, in lock step with Birmingham and Toledo! Yeah!!
But wait, this doesn’t fit Sabrina’s *narrative* that chicago is young and vibrant and booming and everyone wants to live here.
Millenials and college students as a whole DON’T want to live here – they are moving with their feet. Even they can see what Sabrina, with her years of experience covering the housing market, cannot see – this state sucks.
You understand evidence better than that, HD, and *you* cited it. A bunch of 4chan rejects spewing vitriol are who you cited to.
Says something about something that that is what you chose.
Using a very small sample size (two), I think both Sabrina and HD are correct on the migration patterns of millennials (those aged 22 to 38).
I know two big 10 college grads that came to Chicago to work a few years ago. One worked at a Chicago tech startup the other at a Chicago big corp. The one working in a tech startup moved to the San Fran area last year. The big corp guy moved to Austin.
That’s a small indication that Chicago is still a draw to big 10 college grads (Sabrina’s assertion) and that millennials tend to migrate away from Chicago (HD’s assertion).
“A bunch of 4chan rejects spewing vitriol are who you cited to. ”
It’s the comments section to the article about how poorly the IL housing market is performing, and that people are responding by leaving, and you call the comments ‘4chan rejects.’
I’ve bantered w/ you extensively over the years, and you are a very intelligent guy (I still think there’s a 25-30% chance you’re actually Rahm himself) but your partisanship and social circle confirmation bias has given you a blind spot to the larger world and neighboring suburbs and states.
So, at some point in this “mansion’s” history, six separate entrances were added to the front (3 up to the main level and 3 down to the basement level), as were three living/sitting room bump-outs. That, or the broker is…gasp…engaging in realtorspeak puffery, or is incompetent, or a bit of both. I wonder which is more likely?
As for the number of IL high school grads attending out of state schools, might that not be the product of the huge number of younger boomer and older gen x upper households in the nice areas of Chicago/burbs having sent their kids to high performing k-12 and having the money (and/or willingness to borrow) to send their kids to college outside of IL? Or MUST such families only send their kids to U of I?
The 1909 renumbering of addresses has 855, 857 and 859 Dearborn replacing 257, 259 and 261. So it was definitely three separate addresses in 1909.
Using the old numbering, you can find in Robinson’s Atlas of the City of Chicago, 1886, that the three separate addresses were in use then.
If you go to the 80-acre maps, you can find that the parcel was subdivided by a plat recorded December 17, 1875, to create separate lots for these three townhouses (and 3 more lots to the south) of 19′, 19′ and 20′.
So, yeah, I’m pretty damn certain that the realtor (or your interpretation of “mansion”) was wrong.
btw, in the Polk directory from 28/29, the two outer THs were being used as rooming houses, Mrs Cora Slaven the proprietor of 855, and Mrs Alice DuVerdler of 859. One Mrs EM Bowen resided in 857.
“MUST such families only send their kids to U of I?”
U of I is (1) far harder to get into now than when any of us went to college; (2) more expensive that out-of-state tuition at most(?) other Big 10 schools; and (3) in a town that (other than relative proximity to Chicago) in the bottom half of Big 10 burgs.
This is three years old, and only relates to public colleges:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/08/26/us/college-student-migration.html
The other states with really big imbalances between incoming and outgoing college freshmen are CA, NJ, NY and (surprise!) TX. Only NJ is really on par with IL for bad optics, imo.
“your partisanship and social circle confirmation bias”
Nah, it’s my arrogance and disdain for the masses. I don’t really give a fig about what someone who bothers to troll a legit article** with “you should move, but don’t move here” “thinks”.
**open to considering any given article in City Journal as either serious, or partisan claptrap, or a combination thereof. I say that as a sometime subscriber.
That’s a small indication that Chicago is still a draw to big 10 college grads (Sabrina’s assertion) and that millennials tend to migrate away from Chicago (HD’s assertion).
Starting this year, grads and millennials are two different populations. Class of ’19 (assuming 4 years of college) is the first post-millennial class.
(Not that this refutes anyone’s point(s), but “millennial” has become shorthand for “young people” and there are a lot of not-so-young-anymore millennials now.)
Many Big 10 schools offer in-state tuition to out-of-state students who meet certain scholastic measures.
And other state schools are offering free tuition to kids who can’t get a dime from UIUC:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-met-illinois-students-brain-drain-20180405-story.html
$100,000, and not needing a coat most of the winter? And you can still get a job in Chicago after graduation!
“And other state schools are offering free tuition to kids who can’t get a dime from UIUC:”
Granted this was over 20 year ago but UIUC didn’t give me a dime either. And I was as need based as one could get. I wasn’t a minority which probably hurt but my parent’s household income was close to zero (i grew up poor) and my parent’s contribution was $0.
I remember UIUC’s award letter which said they only gave merit scholorships starting with ACT’s in the mid 30’s and they did not have any need based scholarships. (In retrospect, that should have been my invitation to leave the state! Alas, but being poor meant I did not even have the funds to fly, nor a car to drive, to visit out of state colleges, and no way to get there, or get home, so I stayed very close to home.) Granted I did well on the ACT but I did not score in the mid-30′ (33, 34, 35, 36).
My goal lately has been to talk $h it about the state every chance I get. Once the topic gets started at parties and social gatherings, everyone chimes in and starts telling about their own plans to leave too. It’s a great topic to bring up at parties and the low morale is infectious.
“UIUC didn’t give me a dime either….I wasn’t a minority which probably hurt”
[Despite knowing nothing about UIUC’s financial/merit aid policies, then or now:] So you get a shitty ACT score and blame it on teh minorities?
“U of I is (1) far harder to get into now than when any of us went to college”
This is my impression for lots of schools (even when controlling for increases in the quality level of candidates). Semi serious q. how can this be? Population growth? Lots of good students who went to lesser schools that they are going to now?
btw, on the millennial thing, when looking at just those with college degrees, it seems that the city does not great but ok, but the ‘burbs are affirmatively repelling them, which leads to the metro’s overall horrible result:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/petesaunders1/2017/01/12/where-educated-millennials-are-moving/#753bb5e9d3cc
@DZ – – I wonder this too. The young folks straight outta college in my workplace don’t seem smarter to me (smart, but no smarter than anyone else at their age 20 or 30 years ago), so why is it so much harder to get in? I think it is the universal application process – – you can fill out one application for multiple schools has made college applicants cast a wider net than previously. More applicants per school then allows schools to be more selective. Not sure if that actually results in the same level of enrollment however.
All the focus on tons of extracurriculars makes candidates particularly boring in my humble opinion – – they end up not being really great at anything but ok at a bunch of stuff.
“More applicants per school then allows schools to be more selective. Not sure if that actually results in the same level of enrollment however.”
But you can’t go to more than one school, right?
“All the focus on tons of extracurriculars makes candidates particularly boring in my humble opinion”
I had essentially no extracurriculars, so I was surely super interesting.
DZ: exactly we are all angry at affirmative action that gives scholarships, grants and admission spaces to people based on the color of their skin, rather than their merit or need. I was poor, my parents were poor. But a 30 ACT isn’t enough for a poor white boy to get need based scholarship.
“how can this be? Population growth? Lots of good students who went to lesser schools that they are going to now?”
per the BLS: “In October 2018, 69.1 percent of 2018 high school graduates age 16 to 24 were enrolled in colleges or universities”
Also, per the BLS: ” Sixty-three percent of June 1993 high school graduates were attending colleges or universities in the fall of 1993[.] The enrollment rate had been 62 percent in both 1991 and 1992; in 1980, about half of the most recent high school graduates had enrolled in college by the fall.”
Per nces.ed.gov:
HS grads 2018 = 3,612,500
HS grads 1993 = 2,480,519
HS grads 1980 = 3,042,214
So, calculating first year college students:
1980 ~1.5m
1993 ~1.5m
2018 ~2.5m(!!)
UIUC freshmen class (all frosh, not just new admits):
2018 = 6,770
1993 = 6,761
1980 = 7,318
So, out of all HS grads, the number out of every 10,000 able to enroll at UIUC has been:
1980 = 49
1993 = 45
2018 = 27
And that excludes the effect of a well established increase in the number of international students: In 1980, less than 1% (250 of 26228) of all UIUC UG students were international; in 1993, 441 of 26333 (1.67%); in 2018, 5550 of 33673 (16.5%)–the increase in the student body driven by an increase in 5th year seniors and some bump in transfer admits.
“But a 30 ACT isn’t enough for a poor white boy to get need based scholarship”
bc it wasn’t and isn’t enough to get into one of the several dozen schools that provide full or near full aid for all student with family income below a certain (not poverty low) level.
“I think it is the universal application process”
Nah, it’s the 2/3s increase in the number of kids enrolling in college, combined with a much smaller increase in the seats at “tier one” (intentionally vague) colleges.
Just to finish up my story, the college I did end up attending recognized my underprivileged background and gave me a lot of scholarships, so I went to college pretty cheap my first two years. In my third year my parents, in their infinite wisdom, decided to stop filing their taxes and wouldn’t fill out the parent financial aid forms (even though their family contribution was $0). NO FAFSA, no financial aid. So I got declared an independent student and suddenly all those poor kid scholarships went bye-bye because I was no longer from a poor family – I was ‘independent’. My final two years of college cost me 3x as much the first 2 ($10,000 for first two years vs $30,000 for final two years). I graduated with a lot, a lot more debt (including graduate school) than my peers, which saddled me with debt burden my working life so far. But whatever, just a story before you judge, which you’re all so keen on doing.
“anon (tfo) on May 30th, 2019 at 4:50 pm
“But a 30 ACT isn’t enough for a poor white boy to get need based scholarship”
bc it wasn’t and isn’t enough to get into one of the several dozen schools that provide full or near full aid for all student with family income below a certain (not poverty low) level.”
My family was pretty close to poverty level in the late 90’s. It was a bad time at home. I did get financial at near full prices at other schools with my ACT, just not at UIUC.
btw, further to the “mansion” issue:
I’m comfortable with an assertion that the Salesforce Tower won’t affect the views from here.
“I’m comfortable with an assertion that the Salesforce Tower won’t affect the views from here.”
Are you sure? I’m still worried. Can you provide a diagram to set my mind at ease?
“DZ: exactly we are all angry at affirmative action that gives scholarships, grants and admission spaces to people based on the color of their skin, rather than their merit or need.”
“We”? “All”? Nah. I’d bed dollars to donuts that I was more “disadvantaged” than you. And I didn’t even give college the ol’ college try until I was 30. Still graduated from a T25 law school (not that it matters) and spent my first 5 years of practice at a place where around a third of my first year class was from Harvard, another third from U of C (the cream of that crop), and the other third made up of a handful of Stanford, top Northwestern, and top T14ers, along with a bunch of ultra strivers from U of I (often the most impressive at the firm) and schools like mine. Nobody there was complaining about affirmative action.
If anything, affirmative action placements should be increased. I know that you’re Hof-trolling to some extent, but you must know that it’s unseemly for an able-bodied straight white person, however humble your origins, to complain about AA.
“bc it wasn’t and isn’t enough to get into one of the several dozen schools that provide full or near full aid for all student with family income below a certain (not poverty low) level.”
Sure it is. If you’re an athlete. (lol.)
Many ivies will take you with ACT as low as 26.
“So I got declared an independent student and suddenly all those poor kid scholarships went bye-bye because I was no longer from a poor family”
Let me get this straight, HD. You actually DID get scholarships although you were a white guy and the only reason you lost those scholarships was because your parents screwed up and then you were an independent student under different rules.
I don’t see anything in your story about how a non-white student got preferences over you. So why the crying over affirmative action?
You got the scholarships. They got their’s. You lost yours. They didn’t lose theirs. Yours didn’t go over to them.
Your situation had NOTHING to do with affirmative action.
Most financial aid is pretty color blind now unless you win a separate scholarship from an ethnic organization which has deemed it part of the scholarship that you must be, say, from Uzebekistan or the Czech Republic or something. It’s much more class based (i.e. what the family can afford.)
“so why is it so much harder to get in?”
Students are applying to a lot more colleges than they used to. It used to be 5. Now it’s 10 to 20.
And anon(tfo) is right about the change in international students. They are a huge part of the application pool now. It used to be you were just competing with other kids in your state to get into Harvard and now it’s also all the kids at the International Schools in London and Singapore.
“My goal lately has been to talk $h it about the state every chance I get. Once the topic gets started at parties and social gatherings, everyone chimes in and starts telling about their own plans to leave too. It’s a great topic to bring up at parties and the low morale is infectious.”
You must be the life of the party Homedelete.
“And other state schools are offering free tuition to kids who can’t get a dime from UIUC:”
Alabama gives full tuition scholarships to national merit scholars (thanks to the profits from the football program, which is separate from the University but feels guilty for its bounty so donates quite a bit back to the school).
Nebraska also provides quite generous scholarships to out of state students. Even mediocre ones.
Students need to shop around now.
“Millenials and college students as a whole DON’T want to live here – they are moving with their feet.”
Who’s living in the 10,000 apartments? Who’s moving into the NEMA, the 25th tallest all residential building in the entire world that just opened in the South Loop and has spectacular views?
Why are they finally converting the Old Post Office into commercial space, and leasing it out, if no one is moving here and everything sucks? Has someone told UberEats???? My god. Get on the phone with them. They are going to hire “thousands” of people for this office in the Old Post Office. Where will they find them?
Someone please tell Salesforce too, before its too late. And quiz Dyson about why they chose Chicago as their North American headquarters just a few years ago. That seems really stupid to do in a dying city.
And why, oh why, is Riverline being built?
And a new billion dollar terminal at O’Hare? What a travesty.
Are there people leaving the city and the state? Sure. There are plenty of cities that are booming. If I was looking for a great job market I’d move to Texas or Atlanta. Cheap housing. Less snow. Why not?
The country is big. The entire economy is crushing it. People should move now while they can. In a recession, it will be hard to sell that real estate and even harder to get a new job.
“in lock step with Birmingham”
Birmingham is awesome, by the way. Great food scene. Interesting architecture. Pretty area. Airport only so-so though. And you have to deal with the rest of Alabama.
The problem with the much smaller second tier cities is that it’s harder to change jobs and move up, even in something as basic as marketing. And other jobs, like in tech, can be non-existent.
“Who will you sell your home to in 25 years when its time to retire, if the population of the state is less than it is today?”
For decades, demographers have warned that the Baby Boomers of the north (not just Illinois, but ALL of the northern states) would be in for a world of pain as they all went to sell en mass to generations that were much smaller than them while they fled to Florida or other sunbelt states. But then, hooray, the Millennials turned out to be an even BIGGER generation. Unfortunately, tastes and lifestyles have changed. Millennials don’t want to be in the suburbs.
I have no idea where the housing market will be in 25 years.
Miami could be underwater. So could Tampa. Phoenix could be without water. So could Las Vegas. LA or San Francisco could have been damaged by a big quake. Moving patterns could have completely changed. The Midwest could be “in.” Detroit could be the city everyone wants to be in. Or maybe it will be Chicago. Climate scientists actually put the Midwest in a good position in the climate change scenario.
“And in 10-15 years from now, when these millennials have set down roots and have families, it won’t be here in IL.”
The oldest Millennials are now 37/38 years old. Lol. In 10 to 15 years they will be seriously thinking about retirement. Let’s hope they have already put down roots.
“how does this affect the hemorrhaging of people from the state?”
I’ll answer you. Women will not move to states that ban abortions. Some female college students are already turning down college admissions to places like Emory and Wash U in St. Louis.
You cannot compete in a global economy with those policies. It was the same with gay marriage. If you ban abortion with these archaic laws, Amazon will certainly not be opening up a new office in your state. And poor Georgia if that ban holds because Netflix, Disney and others will pull their filming out.
Meanwhile, because Illinois has put in extra protections around women’s health, our film office has been trying to convince Netflix to film some of its upcoming series here in Chicago as we have the studios and infrastructure (and the film industry is now a big business here.) But getting a few Netflix shows would be a really big deal. If Netflix leaves Georgia, where are they going to go? I’m sure they’d give Illinois a look.
Being anti-women is really bad for business.
“Does State Rep Kelly Cassidy really believe that making IL the abortion capital of the country will really make college students think twice about leaving? I mean really?”
Yes. It IS a factor.
https://nypost.com/2019/05/25/scared-students-are-rejecting-colleges-in-states-with-strict-abortion-laws/
“The 1909 renumbering of addresses has 855, 857 and 859 Dearborn replacing 257, 259 and 261. So it was definitely three separate addresses in 1909.”
Thanks anon(tfo). I knew I could count on you to figure it out. There have to be records somewhere.
I wonder if it’s really a Treat design in the first place? Sometimes “lore” gets passed down from owner to owner but it’s never actually correct.
By the way, something came up this evening so there won’t be a new post tomorrow.
Get outside and enjoy the beautiful day. I’ll return with some new properties next week.
“it’s unseemly for an able-bodied straight white person, however humble your origins, to complain about AA.”
It’s not unseemly at all. Nearly all of my close relations is on some sort of medicaid and welfare and I had to deal with significant hardships growing up lower middle class. But as a straight white guy, i don’t check the right boxes on the intersectionality check list, and my plights are insignificant compared to other perceived victims. Whatever annony.
“I don’t see anything in your story about how a non-white student got preferences over you. So why the crying over affirmative action? ”
We were talking specifically about U of I where I insinuated that if I had the correct color skin I could have received an affirmative action scholarship but not a need based scholarship. Affirmative Action is a blight on college admissions, there’s currently a trial going on against Harvard over these same issues, and its even worse for the legacy and wealthy admittees. The average really smart guy with little money and the wrong color skin has little shot at an ivy.
“Being anti-women is really bad for business.”
This is the same talking points nonsense. I’m not going to waste anyone’s time responding with the typical talking points because we’ll never convince each other of anything. I am familiar with the film industry in chicago, and it’s not our liberal abortion laws that is driving film production.
“I’ll answer you. Women will not move to states that ban abortions. Some female college students are already turning down college admissions to places like Emory and Wash U in St. Louis. ”
I know plenty of grads from Wash U (including a distant cousin of mine). No one really cares if a few hundred east coast liberals decide to go to state U instead of wash U because missouri has strict abortion laws. If that’s their form of ‘protest’ so what. It’s better they keep those admission slots open for locals instead.
The real issue though is that with respect to the booming economy, you are missing the forest for the trees. Downtown is booming but at what expenses – as the crains articles showed, at the expenses of the suburbs as sears campus, the mcondalds campus, and countless others are sitting vacant. Even the boeing move was just a few hundred jobs. Southfield michigan was booming too while Detroit burned – it didn’t mean that things were getting better, it was a sign that things were getting worse.
This property is now contingent
““We”? “All”? Nah. I’d bed dollars to donuts that I was more “disadvantaged” than you. And I didn’t even give college the ol’ college try until I was 30. Still graduated from a T25 law school (not that it matters) and spent my first 5 years of practice at a place where around a third of my first year class was from Harvard, another third from U of C (the cream of that crop), and the other third made up of a handful of Stanford, top Northwestern, and top T14ers, along with a bunch of ultra strivers from U of I (often the most impressive at the firm) and schools like mine. Nobody there was complaining about affirmative action.”
Well, sure, y’all made it to the promised land. Why would any of you complain when you had what you wanted *and* could feel good about noblesse oblige? HD could have been one of those ultra strivers from U of I (though presumably they had higher than a 30 ACT), but he had to go to whatev is below that.
“I’d bed dollars to donuts that I was more “disadvantaged” than you.”
I would like to see this settled. How about average family income and net assets while in HS?
“HS grads 2018 = 3,612,500
HS grads 1993 = 2,480,519
HS grads 1980 = 3,042,214”
Gotta say, without having gthooi (other than checking you recorded the numbers correctly) on its face those number seem a little suspect. A large decline over 13 years followed by a large increase over teh next 15 years. The foreign student aspect is convincing. Not fully sure about the importance of increase in percent students going to college, depends a bit if the students who are competing for top schools are among the group increasing.
“on its face those number seem a little suspect”
It’s actually moderately hard to find good data on graduation rates over multiple years. So, I looked at the birth cohort, and assumed 18 years prior to each class year (close enough for purposes of the example):
1962: 4,167,362 (implied grad rate = 73%)
1975: 3,144,198 (implied grad rate = 78.9%)
2000: 4,058,814 (implied grad rate = 89%)
While that 89% seems high, that comports with Census reporting on the current graduation rate. And the 73 and 79 are not unusually low compared to other easily found data (eg, line graphs).
“How about average family income and net assets while in HS?”
In deflated dollars? Wanna say 1995, using the CPI calculator?
Did anyone see the article in WSJ last week about rich people affirmative action – having your kid diagnosed with a learning disability so they can have extra time on the ACT / SAT?
The article mentioned New Trier. Apparently, something like 30% of the classes kids are claiming some sort of disability so they qualify for extra time on the tests. The article found that in highly rate public high schools in wealthy districts all over the country, there is an over representation of kids with learning disabilities qualifying for extend test taking time.
So basically Junior who is taking 4 AP classes is also disabled and needs extra time on the SAT / ACT now. Yeah, right…
“Junior who is taking 4 AP classes is also disabled and needs extra time on the SAT / ACT ”
That wouldn’t be a null set, but it’s not 1 in 20, nevermind 20+%
“In deflated dollars? Wanna say 1995, using the CPI calculator?”
Sounds good! HD, nanny?
“You cannot compete in a global economy with those policies. It was the same with gay marriage. If you ban abortion with these archaic laws, Amazon will certainly not be opening up a new office in your state. And poor Georgia if that ban holds because Netflix, Disney and others will pull their filming out.”
fucking lolz, I saw that in the elevator yesterday and cringed so hard… what a load of crap. I am pro choice as they go (because seriously who gives a shit what women are doing with their own bodies), but come the fuck on, nobody is choosing to not work in the film industry in a certain state because of abortion laws, give me a fuckin break. Is Disney “protesting” this so that they can virtue signal all the while paying shit wages to all its employees due to the excess of people wanting to work in entertainment? probably.
My father was working class, manual laborer, just like his father and his father’s father before that. You can derive income from that assertion in the 90’s with the typical struggling to make ends meet in a neighborhood of working class townhomes in an awful far out suburb. During this time period, my father was injured at work and had a comp claim that went on years. During this time period, the household income went down to zero for years and my parents were in and out of foreclosure during high school. During this time period, like so many others who refill even a single prescription vicodin, my father became addicted to opiods. it was not a good time. My mother had to open a home daycare for a couple of hundred dollars a week during this period. My younger sibling – who is now dead – went out of control and was kicked out of school. Meanwhile, my formerly stable working class neighborhood went to hell, literally, as the neighborhood was taken over my low wage immigrants from foreign countries, and the gangs that came with that. It was literally unsafe to walk around the neighborhood as a high schooler as I was regularly harassed and intidated for being one of the only Caucasian kids still in the neighborhood. Everyone else left. My parents were in foreclosure, had bad credit and couldn’t leave the area for a few more years. As an aside, my neighbor next door had a tween aged child and he would invite his kid to bring over friends for sleepovers, and then he would rape her friends during the night. Apparently he raped a number of the kids in my neighborhood including people I knew well and wasn’t caught until one kid I knew well finally spoke up. He got arrested and went to jail for a long time but this was during the clinton era when there was no immigration enforcement and I swear, his entire family came up after he was arrested and took over his house, and they had, no exaggeration 15 people living the condo, taking shifts sleeping on matresses while they were working low wage illegal type jobs. With them came the cockroaches, the tens of thousands of them, everywhere, all the time. AFter teh illeagals were all evicted after the foreclosure, the other members of the condo building broke in and everyone bug bombed their units at the same time. I remeber walking through the empty unit the next day with literally thousands of roaches covering the entire floor, everywhere. This is just the tip of the iceberg, I can continue on if you wish.
Family assets in high school: Negative
Family income in high school (at least three years): close to zero or slightly above zero with the home daycare money.
Anon, in the article, a New Trier senior led the investigation because he noticed a huge number of his classmates seemed to get special accommodation for the ACT/SAT. He figured out it was about 30% of the graduating class…
Top high schools in NYC, Boston, etc all have similar numbers. In the article, administrators at various schools basically admit they are pressured by parents to have their kids diagnosed so they get the extra time and many spend thousands to find doctors to sign off. Once a doctor makes the diagnosis, there is nothing they can do about it even if they think it is BS. The ACT/SAT do not currently note if a student received extra time IIRC.
To put in perspective, only about 2% of students typically would qualify according to the article IIRC. It is obvious the system is being gamed to get improved scores at many of these schools as there is no way 30% of students at New Trier or any other highly rated public school for that matter have any kind of learning disability that would warrant extra time on ACT / SAT, not too mention while simultaneously supposedly carrying high GPAs and taking AP classes that warrant applying to highly selective colleges/universities. I mean c’mon….
At the other end, lower income black students were significantly under represented in the data for needing extra time, so were Asians.
Recall, in that admissions scandal several months ago, this was also a tactic used, but apparently is pretty wide spread.
“Junior who is taking 4 AP classes is also disabled and needs extra time on the SAT / ACT ”
“That wouldn’t be a null set, but it’s not 1 in 20, nevermind 20+%”
“He figured out it was about 30% of the graduating class…”
So depends on how taking 4 AP classes correlates with getting an accommodation.
Also, if taking 4 AP is sufficiently common, it’s going to be hard to get from the 30% figure to teh 1 in 20. Not sure if I took 3 or 4 junior year. Was uncommon then but my impression is it’s a lot more common now. AP now = honors classes in the olden days.
HD Family income in high school:
–So I think he’s eliding a year of income pre injury (as well as payment on the comp claim post HS, bc if there wasn’t any recovery HD would have mentioned it), let’s call it $25k?
–Then three years at $200 per week (which is not close to zero for the poor), which is $10k, but I’m going to say it’s $15k because I think HD is rounding down.
–I’m going to go with average over four years of $13.75k.
[No points for stuff that happened at some random neighbor that had no direct impact on HD]
“if taking 4 AP is sufficiently common”
From a New Trier report:
“In the class of 2017, 589 students [out of 1060 grads] took 2046 AP exams, averaging 3.5 tests per student”
I wouldn’t be surprised if the “30%” was 30% of that half of the class, rather than 30% of the class.
The comp settlement was iirc $10k or $12k from which the lawyer and medical bills were paid. Comp never pays enough. As for $10k or $15k a year home daycare, that’s before expenses, and that’s near poverty level for a family of four. There was some family help in there I suppose, plus some food stamps. Times were not good. I mean my background isn’t that terrible compared to kids in foster care or with a parent in prison, but I know I’ve got 97% of my upper middle class peers and co-workers beat when it comes to typical poor white folk upbringing. Like I said everyone in my extended family is on Medicaid. How many family members do you have on Medicaid? My only saving grace was that my neighbor fed into a ‘good’ school district so I met and befriended a lot of upper middle class and middle class friends which gave something to strive for. But it didn’t work for my sibling or many of the other neighbors now dead or in prison from my youth.
“No points for stuff that happened at some random neighbor that had no direct impact on HD]“
You’re not very good at reading between the lines, are you. Sometimes some things are better left unsaid.
“Family assets in high school: Negative
Family income in high school (at least three years): close to zero or slightly above zero with the home daycare money.”
More or less the same here, though I was an 80s kid, not 90s (by 95 I had already been living independently for 6 years, none of which were in college).
But rather than being out in a remote burb of a major city like Chicago, I was in the first “burb” just over the city line of a mid-size rust belt city, which up until the early/mid 80s was relatively prosperous, such that a steel worker could provide a family with a solidly middle class lifestyle. But those steel jobs (including my father’s) disappeared pretty much overnight, leaving a bunch of primary bread winners who had already started families scrambling for any income. The result was a neighborhood that was somewhere between life as depicted on “The Kids are Alright” and “Shameless” (it went from the promise of the former to the reality of the latter pretty quickly). When I took my New Trier-educated wife to see my childhood street about 9 years ago, she didn’t say much, but I got the sense that she felt I had understated how blighted and bleak things were there.
Many of the young dads in my neighborhood, including my own, served in the military in the 60s/early 70s, and could have obtained college educations basically for free, but didn’t, instead taking relatively high paying jobs at a steel plant when they started their families. Once those jobs were gone, there was an entire population left standing around (in many cases, literally) wondering where the middle class life they were promised had gone. Many of those folks, drunk on Fox News for the past decade, voted for Trump and hope to do so again, all because they lost what they “deserved” back then, and it’s all because of the “illegals”, non-white people generally, or the fancy white liberals in big cities who want to take the money that working class whites haven’t actually contributed and give it to those illegals and non-whites.
“More or less the same here, though I was an 80s kid”
I’m going to claim victory here, as I did in college when we were comparing who was poorer (easy to do bc you could just compare estimated family contribution), incl a friend who claimed to live in the ghetto. Definitely sub $10k, govt assistance and living in the basement of relatives part of that time. One of my parents got a usps job when I was in college and that was like hitting the lottery. One of the HS I went to is routinely on worst HS lists and at risk of being shut down (okay, the HS I graduated froml is more like a poor man’s new trier, but we were renting a shitty apt on the absolute poorest border part of town).
Annony, your story is super generic and not particular interesting or even that unique. Guy in rust belt gets college degree, then turns his back on the ‘faux news watching trash’. Your hardship story pretty much sucks. I’ve seen sob story documentaries about similar rust belt stories.
And worst part of your story, is that you come across a class traitor of the very worst kind. You value immigrants and foreigners over the people of your own community. You forget where you come from and stick your nose up in the air like you’re better than them.
Annony, you’re not better them. Your T25 school and big firm experience means nothing to them or to me. Your fancy degree at 30 is a piece of paper to your community. You can take yourself out of the rust belt but you can’t take the rust belt out of trash like you. Your shit still stinks and you’re not better than anyone, especially not your hard working, honest community where you grew up.
I used to think that HH, the freakin neo-nazi, was the worst person who posted here, but now it’s you. You’re officially the worst person on the board. Congratulations.
I think y’all should meet in the parking lot of an Auto Zone and fight this one out.
annony, i Take my back comment that you’re the worst person on the board. Neo-nazi HH is still the worst – because nazis are always the worst, followed by the infamous whose name I will not speak. So you’re not the worst person on the board, but I find your blanket dismissal of working class Americans folk – of all skin color – to be offensive and repulsive.
In 1928, y’all’s families could have been living in a ‘furnished room’ in one of these rowhouses. How times change.
“you forget where you come from and stick your nose up in the air like you’re better than them”
Well, not ALL of them, but objectively speaking, most. If I contribute way more in taxes, take way less in government handouts, and don’t support the Trumpian decline of this country and with it the free world, I think there’s a decent argument there re: betterness. And working class whites generally commit crimes at a higher rate and receive more in government assistance than their similarly situated non-white peers – and way more than working class immigrants. If there are other criteria to consider, I’m all ears.
HD
is it the Budweiser or Schlitz talking?
things will get better – especially with more runways
“is it the Budweiser or Schlitz talking?”
I’m a Miller guy personally. He made a really offensive and racist comment and slanders entire class of victims even though he was one of them. He’s clearly a terrible person.
“In 1928, y’all’s families could have been living in a ‘furnished room’ in one of these rowhouses. How times change.”
And 800 years go my ancestors were lords with sizeable fiefs exerting their feudal rights over your serf ancestors.
“And 800 years go my ancestors were lords with sizeable fiefs exerting their feudal rights over your serf ancestors.”
So what happened? They had everything, yet their collective DNA wound up in the wretched scene you described growing up in? I guess that’s what happens after centuries of entitlement and getting things the easy way on the backs of slaves and descendants of slaves. There’s a reason that one sees the Confederate Flag flying in some areas of the north and midwest (like my childhood neighborhood and probably yours). Not surprising that they’re supporters of the current treason.
“So what happened?”
God damn prussians.
HD Anonny DZ
I wonder if there is more in common in your stories than differences.
Does the below apply to your upbringings?
“What makes some places into income-mobility springboards and some into traps? One often-cited factor is that the “green” locations tend to offer easy opportunities to move to higher-income locations or situations – either physically, by offering easy access to nearby high-growth big cities and having few barriers to moving, or indirectly through postsecondary education institutions located in the region.
Mobility traps tend to be places where such opportunities are scarce. In other cases, there is only a single industry or income source, and its earnings have not grown.”
yeah I know it’s from USA north
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/a-tale-of-two-canadas-where-you-grow-up-affects-your-adult-income/article35444594/
an article with specifics to the rust belt
https://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/22/snapshots-of-upwardly-mobile-areas/
“You value immigrants and foreigners over the people of your own community.”
Immigrants ARE my community. Unless you live in some cabin in the woods and have no contact with the outside world, immigrants and “foreigners” are all around us.
Chicago has the largest population of Poles outside of Poland. It has one of the largest Mexican populations in the United States. And it had 58 million visitors last year, with a large percentage of those being “foreigners.” Walk around the downtown on any summer weekend and you’ll hear foreign languages.
The greatness of America is that it has absorbed immigrants from everywhere on the planet. Successfully. No other country has done so.
“Like I said everyone in my extended family is on Medicaid. How many family members do you have on Medicaid?”
It’s always shocking to me, HD, that you support this administration, or Republicans, in general, when many of them, including Paul Ryan, were actively trying to cut Medicaid. Ryan wanted to cut it by 30%. It would have decimated the program. And then what happens to those on it?
Medicaid is the health insurance for poor people but the largest chunk on it are the elderly. 30% are children and disabled.
The “work” requirement that the Republicans want to put on it, wouldn’t require many to actually “work” because no disabled 75 year old walking with a walker or in a wheelchair is going to “work” to qualify.
I don’t get it HD. This is a serious question: why do you vote for people who, literally, could destroy the lives of your family members?
Yes, I have a family member on Medicaid myself. I’m terrified that the Republicans will retake the House and again talk about slashing the program by 30%, all the while spending a record amount on defense.
“but come the fuck on, nobody is choosing to not work in the film industry in a certain state because of abortion laws, give me a fuckin break.”
Sonies, businesses were pulling out of Indiana when Pence was governor. And, yes, Netflix, Disney and the others who film in Georgia have said that if the law goes into effect, they will leave.
You can’t recruit people to work in a city if they are anti-women. We’re half the population. We will vote with our wallets, along with our feet. And women will not live in a state that has these kind of abortion laws.
“Did anyone see the article in WSJ last week about rich people affirmative action – having your kid diagnosed with a learning disability so they can have extra time on the ACT / SAT?”
This has been going on for at least 15 years now in all the elite high schools. They will request it with regular exams as well.
And the admissions scandal is the result of even this advantage not being enough to get junior into one of the prestige schools. So they took it to the next level of actually cheating (and not just getting an advantage.)
If you want to talk about advantages, what about all the New Trier kids who take a college prep course or even have their own tutor to prep them for the test? This kind of preparation can, actually, increase your score dramatically. I’ve seen kids go from 26 to 31 on the ACT after having a private tutor and doing tons of practice tests.
Can a poor family afford to prepare their kids this well? No.
This is why the test companies are thinking of adding on information about the students background which would be added into the score.
“Gotta say, without having gthooi (other than checking you recorded the numbers correctly) on its face those number seem a little suspect. A large decline over 13 years followed by a large increase over teh next 15 years.”
Um…it’s Baby Boomers and then, in 1993, GenX, and then in 2018, those would be GenZ, but they’re a big generation like the Millennials are.
This is all due to birth rates of those generations. You can really see just how small GenX is though. Yikes.
“This property is now contingent”
It’s unique and hasn’t been on the market for years so now’s your chance if you’re a buyer.
“Affirmative Action is a blight on college admissions, there’s currently a trial going on against Harvard over these same issues, and its even worse for the legacy and wealthy admittees.”
Um…affirmative action has NOTHING to do with the other categories you listed: legacies and wealthy admittees.
Lol.
There’s just as much admission shenanigans if you come from a certain state, or city. Heck, it’s actually a disadvantage to apply to Harvard from New Trier. You have a much better chance of getting in from a south side high school, actually. As I’ve said many times on this blog, they will only take so many students from one school at these elite universities.
For instance, 70 kids apply to Wash U from Hinsdale Central. But if you go to a high school out in Plainfield, Lockhart or Joliet, how many of your classmates are you going to be up against if you want to go there too? Very few.
Small, rural high schoolers have an even better chance if they have the ACT score. Schools LOVE them, but, alas, many of them don’t apply.
Michigan actually sends counselors out to the high schools in the Upper Peninsula to get them to apply as many don’t think they’re qualified or can keep up there so they don’t even bother to apply. They also lower the ACT score requirement for those from the rural areas just to boost the representation from those areas.
“Downtown is booming but at what expenses – as the crains articles showed, at the expenses of the suburbs as sears campus, the mcondalds campus, and countless others are sitting vacant.”
Lol.
The whole Chicagoland area is booming HD. My god. Wake up people! It’s been booming for 5-7 years. In all major cities.
McDonald’s was sold almost immediately (large piece of land.) Looks like a mixed use type of scenario, including homes/townhouses.
Sears declared BK but hasn’t gone under. People still working its campus.
The Motorola campus is about to be rebuilt too. Anyone else remember what’s going in there? That’s a big piece of land.
Hey- Detroit is booming too HD. You need to get out more. Quit living in the past. The big cities are booming. Detroit, Austin, Cleveland, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, St. Louis.
Detroit is really building out its downtown. Lots of the abandoned buildings being converted into offices, hotels, condos. Ford is going to renovate one of the huge buildings there, kind of like the Old Post Office, and bring 5,000 more jobs downtown.
It still has a way to go but for those looking for an opportunity to live the American Dream, Detroit and the other rustbelt cities provide an affordable, happening scene. If you’re an artist, or in a profession that pays a little bit less (teacher, librarian etc.) you can still get ahead in most of the Rustbelt. Chicago is the most expensive of them all.
“I know plenty of grads from Wash U (including a distant cousin of mine). No one really cares if a few hundred east coast liberals decide to go to state U instead of wash U because missouri has strict abortion laws. If that’s their form of ‘protest’ so what. It’s better they keep those admission slots open for locals instead.”
The locals?
You mean all those people who were just marching in St. Louis- which is where the last remaining clinic actually is? Those locals?
St. Louis is pro-choice HD. Ba ha ha ha. It’s blue.
And, believe me, Wash U will lose out on good academic candidates, and may even lose out on grad school applicants, because of that law. Who wants to move with a spouse to St. Louis with those draconian laws (men or women) when they can move to Chicago and study there?
People WILL vote with their feet. The universities, not just Wash U, may not even be able to attract other candidates like football coaches, professors, etc.
No one wants to live where they, or their wives, daughters, sisters, will be unsafe.
Sabrina,
Abortion is the culture of death. It’s ghoulish and disgusting. There’s no point in trying to convince you or anyone else of this. The only place that matters is the Supreme Court, and they’re soon about to recognize civil rights to the unborn. Being pro-abortion today is little different than being pro-slavery in 1864. These new bills expanding abortion are nothing more than fleeting attempts to keep abortion alive (no pun intended) as abortions have fallen to 30 year lows, 40 year lows.
IL only had less than 40,000 abortions last year. The last time this state had less than 40,000 abortions was 1973 the year it was legalized. Abortion’s days are nearly over and not a moment too soon. Demand is dropping off a cliff for abortion and the state legislature has to expand it? And then declare that a nine month old fetus has no rights in the state? Isn’t that exactly what southern states said about slaves too? Slaves are not people and have no rights?
As for the “republicans only care about forced birth but then don’t want to pay for the children” argument (Which is always the next comment in the abortion debate) I say that the choice to have a child shouldn’t be based on how much free stuff the government can give new families and mothers. How did mankind ever survive without the government paying for free health care …
And one little tidbit about that – pregnancy, birth and children’s medical services aren’t ‘free’. The state keeps a tally of all the charges and recovers it through child support payments from the father of the child if the parties are not married and the mother receives government services. Those bills are charged to the dad, and collect interest. Title IV-D of the social security act of 1975.
“58 million visitors last year, with a large percentage of those being “foreigners.””
4 percent is a large percentage? lol ok
“Sonies, businesses were pulling out of Indiana when Pence was governor. And, yes, Netflix, Disney and the others who film in Georgia have said that if the law goes into effect, they will leave.”
1) no they weren’t
and
2) I’ll bet you a million bucks that Disney doesn’t leave Georgia
and
“And women will not live in a state that has these kind of abortion laws.”
This is just dumb… women will live where the jobs are at, and will do anything to work in the film industry. Abortion is probably one of the least of their worries or on their mind because well probably half of the women support the measures anyway… seriously who the fuck even thinks about something so horrific and makes life choices based on something that you don’t even want to happen. Its completely ridiculous fear mongering. Stop it!
I wonder if Disney is going to stop filming in the UAE, Egypt, and Jordan where they still stone gays and is also very anti abortion…
“I wonder if Disney is going to stop filming in the UAE, Egypt, and Jordan where they still stone gays and is also very anti abortion…”
Do their employees live there for months? Maybe some actors won’t want to go there either?
Here’s what they say:
Disney May No Longer Film in Georgia Over Abortion Ban
The list of Hollywood productions considering leaving Georgia over the state’s new abortion ban continues to grow. Netflix voiced its intentions earlier this week, saying the company would “rethink” filming in Georgia if and when the law goes into effect, and a handful of other directors and creators have also expressed a desire to pull their productions out of the state under similar circumstances. Now it looks as though Disney, which has filmed movies such as Black Panther and Avengers: Endgame in Georgia, may also leave. Speaking to Reuters, Mouse House honcho Bob Iger said it would be “very difficult” to continue working in Georgia if the so-called “heartbeat” law does indeed get implemented on January 1. “I think many people who work for us will not want to work there, and we will have to heed their wishes in that regard,” Iger said. “Right now we are watching it very carefully.”
https://www.wired.com/story/disney-georgia-abortion-law/
“This is just dumb… women will live where the jobs are at, and will do anything to work in the film industry.”
Sigh.
Women have already shown that they won’t live in certain states that make laws against their rights. Employers know this. They won’t be able to hire the best women candidates because, you know what, we have choice on that. We’re not going to move to New Orleans or Baton Rouge. We’re not going to go to school there. We may choose not to vacation there.
It’s really not that hard.
Corporations pulled jobs out of Indiana when it passed discriminatory legislation that they knew would hurt them in trying to get the best employees. That’s what this is. Because you know what? Lots of MEN won’t want to move their wives to these states (nor their daughters.) Because, heaven forbid, they should be in the situation where their wife has a problematic pregnancy and now they, too, would be criminals for simply flying them to another state.
So, yeah, educated women won’t move to those states. Why the f*ck would we? That Georgia law literally puts us in jail for driving to Florida to make our choices.
It’s kind of ironic we’re getting these laws now with 2020 the 100th anniversary of women being given the right to vote. But what am I saying. It’s not surprising.
“Abortion is the culture of death. It’s ghoulish and disgusting.”
So you’re against the death penalty then too?
“Demand is dropping off a cliff for abortion”
It’s amazing what happens when woman can control their own bodies. I’m sure you will agree.
There are several reasons for this:
1. Reduced teenage pregnancies because there’s better counseling about birth control: condoms, the IUD and the pill
2. Fewer pregnancies overall in the United States. We now have the lowest birth rate in modern times. Fewer pregnancies means fewer abortions.
3. Easy access to the Morning After pill. This lets women take care of the situation if they think there is any risk of a pregnancy at all because birth control has failed etc.
4. Women are having fewer children. It’s approaching what other industrialized countries now have. We can’t replace the population. Immigration is the only way to grow the country going forward.
By the way Sonies, with Pence and the business he lost because of his dumb “religious freedom law”- Angie’s List decided not to spend $40 million to expand its headquarters and Salesforce threatened to pull out of the state. It never went that far because the state legislature reversed course.
But other companies said they couldn’t recruit there if the law stood, including Apple.
Do you think they’re staying in Georgia? How do you even hire a female college student at, say, Coke all the while telling her that she had better not attempt to get an abortion while living in the state because she would be imprisoned for 99 years. And so would her friends/family who helped her go to another state to get one.
Are you nuts?
It’s almost laughable. It makes Pence’s law look like child’s play.
The sad thing is, no one expects the courts to uphold these laws from the 1500s. What a waste of a legislature’s time and effort. Don’t they have anything else better to do? Evidently not.
HD, you didn’t answer my question.
Why do you vote for Republicans whose very platform is to cut Medicaid by 30% which would decimate the program all of your relatives appear to be on?
I don’t get it.
Why are you voting against your own interests? Why are you voting to have your relatives have no health insurance?
And it must be really, really bad if your relatives are on Medicaid (or they’re very old.) Because most are either the elderly, disabled, or children.
Many states have allowed the expansion of Medicaid which has now put more simply poor people on the plan. Perhaps your relatives live in one of the expansion states. But the Republicans want to end that too. Only John McCain saved that.
“seriously who the fuck even thinks about something so horrific and makes life choices based on something that you don’t even want to happen. Its completely ridiculous fear mongering. Stop it!”
Do men go every year to their doctor to get checked for diseases specifically related to giving birth? Do they feel the egg leave their body every month, and see it in the bottom of the toilet?
Until they do, maybe they don’t get to say that women don’t make life choices about something as completely serious as whether or not they will GO TO JAIL FOR 99 YEARS because they want to get a safe, medical procedure.
We think about pregnancy every month Sonies. For about 40 years. In a row.
And states that make it safe are at a much bigger advantage in attracting corporations, the best talent, the artists, the creative. Everything.
“Women have already shown that they won’t live in certain states that make laws against their rights.”
this is bullcrap! if it was true where is the large migration of women moving to then? Last I checked places that are anti abortion (which for the record I still think is a completely retarded law) still are around 50/50 women/men. Parroting some BS about Illinois being abortion friendly isn’t going to solve the population crisis.
“By the way Sonies, with Pence and the business he lost because of his dumb “religious freedom law”- Angie’s List decided not to spend $40 million to expand its headquarters and Salesforce threatened to pull out of the state. It never went that far because the state legislature reversed course.”
Also bullcrap… Angie’s list decided to “not expand” in early 2015 because their stock went from 25 to 5 in the 2 years prior… you really buying this virtue signaling garbage? Well salesforce “virtue signaled” so yay on them? lmao
“But other companies said they couldn’t recruit there if the law stood, including Apple.”
more virtue signaling… if anything they are whining about having to pay more to employees to make their offers more attractive to live in a place that they aren’t aligned politically with… but yea they have no other reason to do this right
On a side note, for the record I am waaaaaay more libertarian than the current religious right retards and I can’t stand them at all, they are legitimately moving the country backwards in places and its just flat out sad.
This property sold on 7/19 for $575,000
Thanks for the update Eric. Did that include the parking? That’s what I would have thought this would go for.
Looks like parking wasn’t included