Love the Cubs? Live Near Wrigley Field: 3520 N. Reta in Lakeview
Some Cubs fans dream of living within walking distance of Wrigley Field so they can hear the roar of the crowd from their open windows.
This 2-bedroom unit at 3520 N. Reta is about 3.5 blocks from the Friendly Confines.
It was new construction in 2006 so it has all the bells and whistles of new construction of that era along with some luxury finishes including a wine fridge.
The kitchen has upgraded appliances with a stainless steel Viking stove.
For those of you who are clothes horses, you’ll love the 12×10 master bedroom closet.
It’s already listed $20,000 below the 2007 purchase price.
Nick Kluding at Baird & Warner has the listing. See more pictures here.
You can also see it in person this weekend at the Open House on Sun, Feb 28: 11 AM – 1 PM.
Unit #2S: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, no square footage listed
- Sold in April 2006 for $489,000
- Sold in September 2007 for $515,000
- Currently listed for $495,000 (includes the parking)
- Assessments of $183 a month
- Taxes of $6649
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 16×14
- Bedroom #2: 11×11
- Master Bedroom closet: 12×10
Hmmm, nice little isolated side street, two blocks to the El, two blocks to the lake, and an interior that actually has some nice details to it. Other then the fact that the exterior is ugly and the price (IMHO) is a little high, it’s a nice place that should sell reasonably soon.
There’s a sizable difference between loving the Cubs and loving Wrigleyville. Unless you enjoy d-bags vomitting on your sidewalk, this location is highly not recommended.
Nice walk-in closet though…
Whats the point of that shower/tub combo like that? I don’t get it… dumb dumb fad IMO.
I’d either
A) Have a larger shower and maybe a towel closet
or
B) A bigger tub with a shower built into it
Sonies;
The ladies love that crap even though the tub rarely gets used. Just one of those emotional things that make no sense, but if you don’t have the separate tub/shower you aren’t keeping up with the Jones.
I much rather prefer a very big shower.
“A bigger tub with a shower built into it”
But then you don’t have a bubbling tub.
Not that I like them, but that’s a big part of why. Also, many, many “nice” hotels have the same and “everyone” wants bathroom like at “Hotel X”.
You use a shower almost every day, My wife has used our tub as a tub I think once or twice over the last year… But we have one of those cheapo-combo tub/shower things but still I see where you’re coming from Russ. Women are indeed dumb about certain things
2006 construction = bells and whistles of new construction + shoddy construction, moisture problems, leaking roof, eroding tuck pointing, etc etc. + shell entity developer with no recourse.
I have a friend who purchased the top floor of one of these generic three flats that are now all over Lincoln Park/Lakeview. Awesome roof top deck (and all the bells and whistles). Last time I spoke with him, he said he has spent over $60k in repairs. I think he bought in the low $400k about 5 years ago.
I stayed in a condo in key west once that had a giant 2 person hot tub/bath and a shower on the wall. seems like that would work here. plus when you stand up and are all bubbly it’s easier to rinse than having to walk around into that glass box that they have.
You could get a townhome not too far from this place for $400k, not sure why anybody would ever pay this for a 2br/2ba
Tub: you need the tub to wash the kiddies. The master closet is amazing and the kitchen is pretty impressive. Glad to see that not all developers are throwing up shoddy/cookie cutters.
I don’t want to sit down and take a bath in the shower you’ve been peeing in and shedding back hair in. I greatly enjoy – and use – my separate “just for me” tub.
Also – don’t you need a tub for kids? Not sure how sticking a toddler in a shower works.
I much prefer a giant shower with a built-in bench and multiple shower heads to the tub/shower combo. There is usually a bathtub in the second bathroom for the kids, so I don’t understand the need to have it in the master – unless it is really just all about the jets.
“Glad to see that not all developers are throwing up shoddy/cookie cutters.”
Just b/c it’s pretty doesn’t mean it’s not shoddy. That’s the basic problem.
“you need the tub to wash the kiddies”
If you’re buying a half million dollar 2/2 in W’ville with an eye to the practicality of living there with kidS(!! multiple!), you either have more money than sense or no sense at all. Not to mention that the 2d bath most likely has a combo tub/shower that would be perfectly adequate to bathe a child (or twins, heaven forfend) in.
“You use a shower almost every day, My wife has used our tub as a tub I think once or twice over the last year…”
Exactly why I’d rather have a separate tub and shower. Why bother getting the tub dirty and have to go through the hassle cleaning it.
unless you – god forbid – you want to take a bath. no matter how fancy the shower is, you can’t take a bath in it.
Just because it’s pretty, doesn’t mean it’s shoddy..that’s why you hire an inspector to inspect the inside AND outside. Btw, sometimes you CAN tell shoddiness from pictures.
Also, a lot of people live in 2/2s for the first few years they have kids. (as evidenced by the strollers in the entryways of so many 3/4/6/8 flats in Lakeview) If 3-4 people (two of them being very small) can’t live in 1500+ square feet, you’re a pack rat.
“sometimes you CAN tell shoddiness from pictures.”
Often you can tell it IS shoddy from the pictures.
Nothing you see in pictures can tell you it is definitely NOT shoddy.
“If 3-4 people (two of them being very small) can’t live in 1500+ square feet”
Sure, and so can 8, or more. But do you really want to pay almost $3000 a month for the privilege?
“Nothing you see in pictures can tell you it is definitely NOT shoddy”
Responding to myself–
Where are the pictures of the roof? Or the sidewall? Or the close-ups of the windows where they meet the bricks.
Of course you get an inspection, but you’re the one who said “Glad to see that not all developers are throwing up shoddy/cookie cutters” based on the pictures. Or have you seen an inspection report for one of the units in the building?
“unless you – god forbid – you want to take a bath. no matter how fancy the shower is, you can’t take a bath in it.”
have a bathtub in the other bathroom for the kids and when you want to take a bath once a year…
“I don’t want to sit down and take a bath in the shower you’ve been peeing in”
Who the hell *actually* PEES in the SHOWER? I thought that was just a Seinfeld gag.
A viking stove in a place like this is a total waste. I’d be surprised if the hood actually vents to the outside.
Hahaha that’s funny you say that because fairly often venting issues are latent defects in new construction like this. The vents dont’ go anywhere or at least not outside.
“I’d be surprised if the hood actually vents to the outside.”
“I’d be surprised if the hood actually vents to the outside.”
But you can tell from the pix that it does. This is *totally* not shoddy. [/sarcasm]
I seriously doubt that this was built *that* poorly. b/c that would be pretty absurd. But not *as* absurd as saying that you *know* it was vented properly (and the vent hole in the side wall was properly sealed) based on looking at the pic above.
Oh and I have trouble reconciling:
Master Suite Is Nearly 600 Square Feet (!!!)
With a master bedroom that is listed at 16 x 14. Even if it includes the “close horse” (whore!?) closet, the master bath would have to be bigger than the master bedroom…
…I really love this place…
anon, take a chill pill. Some people don’t mind paying more money to live in Wrigleyville/Boystown. I think it’s a great location. Close to everything…and that always come at a price.
“Master Suite Is Nearly 600 Square Feet (!!!)”
Possible, the closet and bathroom *could* be 100 sqft 10’x10’wall to wall (not including shelving or bathtubs & junk), the porch/balcony could be another 100 sqft and the room is 224 sqft, 524 is “nearly” 600 right?
8)
“Master Suite Is Nearly 600 Square Feet ”
Whole structure (ie, both north and south) has an exterior footprint of a bit under 2800 sf. So this place is ~1400 sf, max, before dedcuting exterior walls and interior common areas (ie stairs). So, the master suite is over 40% of the total SF?
Also, 4N is also currently listed for $539k. Has been on and off the market since Mar-08. Appears to be the same layout (mirrored, of course), with $30 higher assessments and an extra $1000 in taxes. Unclear on the roof deck situation, as it’s in the narrative for 4N, but not 2S.
ps: re kids–if you think that you’d cram your 2 kids (as has suggested) and all their stuff into an 11×11 room and not have your 1300 sf condo completely overwhelmed with the kiddos junk, you either (a) don’t have kids or (b) are a serious outlier (like .01 percentile) among UMC Chicago parents in your child-stuff buying. HD would have more than that amount of stuff for his kids.
Oh and let me add while this place is really nice, I wouldn’t pay 500k for it thats for sure. I would maybe pay 350k, but that’s just me and my opinion. Some other people put a much higher premium on being in Wrigleyville, that to me is a negative.
“Whats the point of that shower/tub combo like that? I don’t get it… dumb dumb fad IMO. ”
My parent’s house built in 1992 had this setup. A pretty long lasting fad if you ask me.
“The ladies love that crap even though the tub rarely gets used.”
Parents dog would always eat the cat shyt and eat the cat food. Litterbox and catfood was placed in tub where dog couldn’t reach to prevent dog from chowing down. In that sense it got used all the time.
Oh BTW this monstrousity is way overpriced. I am hesitant to guess what these will trade at at the bottom but I think places like this are in for a massive hit.
The longest I have heard someone hold out in a 2/2 with kids is 6 months pregnant with #2. Most pull the trigger after #1, but might stay until #2 is on the way at least.
I think a swing and high chair alone would take up the entire dining room in our old condo. No way you get all that plastic crap into a space like this and are ok with it, especially if you are as anal about finishes as the buyer of a place like this most likely is.
“Possible, the closet and bathroom *could* be 100 sqft”
Listed sez closet is 120 sf. say that the 16′ for the BR runs back to front, and the 12′ of the closet is added on and the whole suite runs the full width of the unit (undoubetdly true), you get to ~28×19 which is 532 which, with a little rounding of the subtotals is pretty close. But then, I would think of the place as closer to a 1 br + office–but I know I’m kinda ridiculous on that point.
If he’s counting the balcony … I don’t even know what to say.
“The longest I have heard someone hold out in a 2/2 with kids is 6 months pregnant with #2. Most pull the trigger after #1, but might stay until #2 is on the way at least.”
You’re going to see people staying put involuntarily in this downtown. I already am. Already seeing idiot late 20-something and early-30somethings at work bitching about the RE market and how its un-American they can’t move on up the property ladder and how RE values are the key to the economy. Some say millenials have an entitlement attitude but they’re overlooking GenX/GenYer property owners entirely.
the closet is bigger than my master bedroom 🙁
“if you think that you’d cram your 2 kids (as has suggested) and all their stuff into an 11×11 room and not have your 1300 sf condo completely overwhelmed with the kiddos junk, you either (a) don’t have kids or (b) are a serious outlier”
with that sized closet the kids stuff can go there 🙂 but with two i dont know if you can fit all the stuff in there just imagine the out door kid toys where do you put that? i bought a shed to put next to the house for my sons outside stuff.
“just imagine the out door kid toys where do you put that?”
On the balcony and in the hallway. Duh. That’s one reason that the childless hate having parents in their buildings.
“with that sized closet the kids stuff can go there ”
And then one of the features you liked sooo much when you bought (the huge closet for all your clothes) is totally killed.
“I think a swing and high chair alone would take up the entire dining room in our old condo”
Here you can just stack it in front of the bar that is 3 feet away from the open kitchen.
I think this place will be lucky to sell for anything over $440K or so.
“I think a swing and high chair alone would take up the entire dining room in our old condo”
Its easy JMM, we did only a small travel swing and the hook on high chair. (well we did end up getting a full high chair when he was 8 months)
The master suite looks pretty huge. Looks like a queen size bed AND a freakin sofa!
Of course you can do it. Imagine what Vu grew up with with 10 siblings in a tent. And look how successful he was.
The point however is: most buyers of 400k+ condos aren’t putting up with that for very long.
“The point however is: most buyers of 400k+ condos aren’t putting up with that for very long.”
See, we actually agree about a lot of stuff.
Bob, totally agreed. Whatever generation is 20-something at the moment always gets slammed with the “entitlement” rap but I think we will see in time that the most unrepentant sense of entitlement was pioneered by Boomers and perfected by Xers.
This place is a way station on the way to suburban life. No wonder it’s constantly trading hands.
“The longest I have heard someone hold out in a 2/2 with kids is 6 months pregnant with #2.”
moved 9 days before #2 hit. then it took us over 4 mos to unpack.
I do take bubble bath at least once a week. This is the only me time I get!
And I would kill for a closet like that!
Actually I know a couple with 2 kids (11 and 3 y.o.) who libe in 2 br condo. Both kids go to Latin.I guess different people have different priorities.
“moved 9 days before #2 hit.”
But signed the contract at 6 months?
“The longest I have heard someone hold out in a 2/2 with kids is 6 months pregnant with #2.”
“moved 9 days before #2 hit. then it took us over 4 mos to unpack.”
Two weeks after #2 for us.
“Actually I know a couple with 2 kids (11 and 3 y.o.) who libe in 2 br condo. Both kids go to Latin.”
Walking distance to Latin? And I bet their master suite isn’t 45% of the condo.
nada, rented a place with 1 more bdrm and a den. plenty of space but newborns in hi rise apts should be avoided if possible. hard to escape the fussing. I could have really used a nice quiet basement those first few months.
“Actually I know a couple with 2 kids (11 and 3 y.o.) who libe in 2 br condo. Both kids go to Latin.I guess different people have different priorities.”
Knowing Latin parents, this is probably not your average 2 bedroom. Perhaps it’s a 10 room co-op with a library, den, family room and game room on top of those 2 br.
Besides, 2x Latin tuition alone (not including your generous “donation”) could entirely pay off the average 2br condo in 4-5 years. My guess is that is an unusual circumstance.
anon (tfo),
2 blocks from Latin.
JMM,
No, it’s even much smaller than this W-ville condo; typical highrise build in 70-ies. The couple can afford to move to 3-br in the area or Latin tuition for to 2 kids, but not the both. Suburbs or public school is not an option, so this is just the choice they made.
I like the separate shower and massive spa tub, and would use that tub a lot.
People have different ideas about what constitutes a silly extravagance. To me, a CAR is a silly extravagance, and so is a big screen TV. And a pleasure boat is a gigantic folly and monster waste of fossil fuel resources.
Now, if I had children, good schools and a car for all the chores pursuant to raising them,would be the priorities. Everything else would be optional.
“Actually I know a couple with 2 kids (11 and 3 y.o.) who libe in 2 br condo. Both kids go to Latin.”
What 3-year-old goes to school?
“What 3-year-old goes to school?”
it actually STRONGLY recommend that to gain admittance to Latin you enroll your kid in the Pre-school there.
“it actually STRONGLY recommend that to gain admittance to Latin you enroll your kid in the Pre-school there.”
And start making your annual fund contributions.
“The couple can afford to move to 3-br in the area or Latin tuition for to 2 kids, but not the both. Suburbs or public school is not an option, so this is just the choice they made.”
I’m sorry but that is ridiculous. There are plenty of options not NEARLY as expensive and just as good. If you are on bottom dollar to send kids to Latin you should not be sending them there or should be on a scholarship.
There’s nothing wrong with kids going to school at 3. My 5 yr-old daughter has been in the British School since age 3 and she loves every minute of it. Not as expensive as Latin, but certainly not cheap. Most of the parents are not the ultra-wealthy set and make plenty of sacrifices to cut that tuition check, myself included.
Its funny. The conversation strayed to those who make sacrifices to send their pre-schoolers to one of the best schools in the midwest and the sacrifices that requires, yet nobody touched on the fact that that option is likely out of reach of the owner or the potential purchaser of this place.
To put it bluntly what does a DINK Cubbies couple who loves Clark St do after a baby falls out of mommy and reality sets in?
Private school plus a 450k mortgage? With their excellent foresight & planning I bet they’re wondering how mommy even got preggo in the first place.
One thing I will bet on is their offspring won’t be joining chi_dad’s at the British school. Call me presumptive but I’d be willing to bet these people can’t afford this mortgage and the tuition, as old money typically doesn’t buy McCrapBoxes like this.
A lot of cheap beer pitchers in this couple’s future. I just hope I don’t run into them as they might kill my buzz.
“If you are on bottom dollar to send kids to Latin you should not be sending them there”
so you think the better options is to get a big SFH and send the kids to Clemente HS?
Chi-Dad,
How is The brit school’s track record? its only been open since late 90’s i think, i havent run across any bad or good things about it. or talked to any one with kids there.
Price seems on par with latin and parker, so why not go with the proven system?
I love all the generalizations about the people that own this place or what they might or might not be. If you actually look at the street it’s probably the only one within blocks of Wrigley that is quiet due to the fact that it’s a one way that dumps out onto Addison and can only be accessed off of Halsted.
Sure they are without kids, but seriously guys, you want someone making assumptions about who you are based on where you live? Grow up folks. Not a bad price seeing as how the 4N unit for sale in the same building has the same footprint but roof access and wants $30K+ more. Please, save some money and not have to haul your ass up 4 flights of stairs.
IMO, the reason people send their children there is two-fold. First, certain parents like the British-style IB education track and the culture that comes with that (think little uniforms). Second, Latin and Parker are difficult to get into and I think the British School generally takes anyone who can afford the tuition.
Most people do not realize this but I believe the British School of Chicago is part of a larger for-profit education business, owned by a private equity firm that acquired it through a buyout. Your high tuition pays teacher salaries but I believe it also helps fund interest payments and debt amortization, and an IRR for the private equity owner of the business.
“Price seems on par with latin and parker”
List price is not the real price at Latin & Parker. Does the British School (a for-profit institution, no?) *expect* addtional contributions beyond tuition?
“List price is not the real price at Latin & Parker. Does the British School (a for-profit institution, no?) *expect* addtional contributions beyond tuition?”
This is absolutely correct and I don’t think donations even work because its not a 501(c)(3). I guess you could just cut a check to the shareholders of the business, but that seems a little strange.
That said, Parker and Latin probably don’t have fixed charge ratios and debt convenants they need to hit every period. Could you imagine a default here? I’d be pissed if a lender came in and seized my child as collateral.
JMM,
May it’s not the choice you or I would make, but this couple is happy with their lifestyle. And your own kids education is not the worst use for the money!
“owned by a private equity firm”
Sovereign Capital. 34mm Sterling in 2008 (not sure if that was cash price, or imputed value) in an MBO, for 5 US schools, one in Doha, and the education mgmt biz. They’ve gotten killed on the forex, if nothing else.
And they’ve paid for a new facility here, at least. So they’ve got a big investment.
Groove – the big differences between BSC and Latin/Parker/et al. are:
– BSC is a for-profit enterprise which, as a card-carrying libertarian, I believe makes for a more efficiently-run school with strong incentives for producing excellent results.
– The school has a very strong philosophy on how kids learn best, and they execute it very well in each of the classrooms. This means that parents don’t have much say in what’s taught, how the school runs, etc. (i.e., squeaky-wheel, meddlesome parents don’t get the grease). You need to really believe they know what they are doing and trust them with it – otherwise, it’s definitely not the school for you.
– They interview ~100 teachers in the UK for each one they hire. It’s a prestigious post for a Brit teacher, which results in an excellent, highly enthusiastic staff.
– It is now a fully-accredited IB school. Kids have the full equivalent of a US-diploma at age 16. They can go on to college from there, or continue 2 more years to receive the IB diploma.
– Many parents from other countries who grew up on the British system prefer to send their kids here, so the student body is much more diverse than other schools.
– Track record of teaching youngsters is outstanding. Kids learn to read, write and do math earlier than the other privates.
– Best of all, NO FUNDRAISING.
Lastly, I would say that admission is based solely on the child’s merits. Latin, for example, is so overweighted to the parent’s merits – they have very few slots even available for young kids b/c they are all allocated to current and former parents and students. I don’t think we would have gotten in.
Anyway, I think the school is truly excellent and my daughter loves it. So I’m willing to forego a car, vacations and nice digs to send her there. 36 bus to the Red Line, baby!
“I’d be pissed if a lender came in and seized my child as collateral.”
there is something in the air this week, everyone is dropping some funny stuff.
“List price is not the real price at Latin & Parker”
true from what i HEARD its another 5k a year
It hard to say, if we only had one kid and could get acceptance to Latin (not parker) i think i would sacrifice too like 312’s friends
Groove,
I haven’t seen their W-2 or 1099, but this couple doesn’t look like they are making any sacrifices (besides living in 2 Br) – Europe vacations, designer clothes, mom can afford not to work etc.
“Lastly, I would say that admission is based solely on the child’s merits.”
I don’t know a for-profit enterprise in existence that turns down incremental business that is profitable. I think it’s more like — most people cannot get their kids into the elite private schools (which I think is a shame, don’t get me wrong) so they send them to this new British School. I’d love to meet a parent whose kid was rejected by the British School based on merit and not capacity constraints because I doubt the situation exists.
The school has its merits. But there are also possible issues. For example, the high school is very lean on enrollment from what I understand (though this may change). What sort of athletic program can you run with that attendance? So much for Friday night lights… Is there an athletic program at a place that promotes sending kids to college at 16?
For now, this is an option of folks in the city with small kids. Whether kids ultimately matriculate through is still up for debate.
“What sort of athletic program can you run with that attendance? So much for Friday night lights”
For many parents (and kids) that would be a positive. I’d just as soon that competitive sports be separated from schools, at least on the high school level, but wouldn’t go out of our way to find such a place.
I am biased, but I think competitive sports are good for girls.
Thank Chi-Dad,
good info, brit school has not been on my radar i may schedule a visit in the next month or so. I checked the website just now and see that its a small athletic program. (reason i dont favor parker) I am strong believer in athletic competition and arts in a childs education it cant be all math and science. true athletic competition help a child learn in a fun way the value of hard work and repetition = pay off, the arts are VERY valuable in teaching problem solving (creative minds see things in more than one way).
“36 bus to the Red Line, baby!”
and the funny stuff keeps on rolling 🙂
“BSC is a for-profit enterprise which, as a card-carrying libertarian, I believe makes for a more efficiently-run school with strong incentives for producing excellent results.”
this i disagree with, I believe a small bureaucracy is best for a school as it can change/adapt its curriculum to meet the needs of its CURRENT students. Something a BIG beast like CPS cannot do or if they want to it takes year to implement.
“So much for Friday night lights”
I think its quite a joke of the American institution of being enthralled with HS football and going to see the kids play on a Friday night. Its doubly hilarious and sad in smaller but still large midwest towns (ie: Cincy) on the Friday evening newscast HS football is the top story during the season.
“I don’t know a for-profit enterprise in existence that turns down incremental business that is profitable. I think it’s more like — most people cannot get their kids into the elite private schools (which I think is a shame, don’t get me wrong) so they send them to this new British School.”
There is some truth in this, but the child of a friend of mine in good financial standing was turned down for admission. To be able to sell the school in the long term, kids need to do well – or, at least, they can’t have kids with the potential to adversely affect the experience of the other kids (as my friend’s child would) and cause parents to pull out.
“Its doubly hilarious and sad in smaller but still large midwest towns (ie: Cincy) on the Friday evening newscast HS football is the top story during the season.”
better than talking about all the arsons and murders that went on that night… but I agree friday night lights is stupid and a huge waste of money for schools.
Its the “prestige” that they are trying to protect (in turn the high tuition) and thats a part of the legacy and institution that i dont like about latin, and fenwick.
do you mind me asking what was the reason they felt your friends kid would “scare” the affluent parents there?
“There is some truth in this, but the child of a friend of mine in good financial standing was turned down for admission. To be able to sell the school in the long term, kids need to do well – or, at least, they can’t have kids with the potential to adversely affect the experience of the other kids (as my friend’s child would) and cause parents to pull out.”
” I think competitive sports are good for girls”
So do I. I just question why it *must* happen through the schools.
“do you mind me asking what was the reason they felt your friends kid would “scare” the affluent parents there?”
The kid is a classic bully. Why pay $22K/year to have your child bullied at school? I can’t speak for the BSC’s admission policies, but if they’re smart they would try to avoid admitting kids like this.
“So do I. I just question why it *must* happen through the schools.”
The public parks are over stretched already for kids up to HS.
The main reason i think athletics in schools is great and should be there is for the “school spirit” aspect it creates. even if a kid isnt good enough for the team he still can participate in the stands by cheering making banners boo’ing the opposing team and stuff like that.
It brings people together with a commonality and gives every one at the that school pride in it.
“The main reason i think athletics in schools is great and should be there is for the “school spirit” aspect it creates”
In my HS, it poisoned “school spirit” for most who were non-participants. So it goes both ways.
And, in most communities, when budget cuts get discussed, art, music, theater, science, *everything* else will get sacrificed before a dollar gets taken away from the football team–b/c of “school spirit” (the last refuge of the teenage scoundrel).
“The kid is a classic bully. Why pay $22K/year to have your child bullied at school? I can’t speak for the BSC’s admission policies, but if they’re smart they would try to avoid admitting kids like this.”
Oh, very true. but with smaller class sizes wouldnt that inhibit the bullies opportunities for “damage”?
people scold me when i say this, but i think kids need bullying to grow. (up to a point)
I mean just look at the place you work….there are bullies there and its bust to learn to handle/deal with them at a young age. (practice make perfect)
“Oh, very true. but with smaller class sizes wouldnt that inhibit the bullies opportunities for “damage”?”
Private, for-profit, instutions are fairly susceptible to lawsuits. Even with a *perfectly* defined code of conduct and complete (signed) acknowledgement by kid and parents of the consequences of a failure to satisfy all requirements, I don’t know if it’s an acceptable risk to take on a known, established bully.
Besides. Isn’t that the point of the competitive athletic program?
“And, in most communities, when budget cuts get discussed, art, music, theater, science, *everything* else will get sacrificed before a dollar gets taken away from the football team–b/c of “school spirit” (the last refuge of the teenage scoundrel).”
I was a coach at my local park and three in my family are coaches in the CPS HS. (two HS football coaches one volleyball)
But even i think Sports should be cut before the Arts. the arts are more valuable to a kids development than “moving a ball around”.
“Besides. Isn’t that the point of the competitive athletic program?”
the funny never ends.
I’m not a parent but I’d much rather have my kids take practical living classes (consumer finance, home ec, etc) before any arts or sports. Its my impression that far too many HS kids graduate without practical living skills these days.
Chi-dad; thanks for the info on the Brit school. How does it compare to the Lycee francais (also IB granting), if that was under consideration?
Groove, competitive school sports are virtually non-existent in many European countries, so their kids must learn the value of hard work somehow. And the value of repetition is also evident when you recite the multiplication tables or conjugate latin verbs in the different tenses. I actually don’t like the huge focus on sports and extracurricular activities (including community service as a graduation requirement!) in schools and college admissions.
Oh, fwiw, we (2 kids) grew up in a 2/1, then a 2/1 plus den, shared yard, but had multiple vacations a year etc. Fun life (but the second BR was bigger than the one featured here!!).
“How does it compare to the Lycee francais (also IB granting), if that was under consideration?”
I wish I could say – I’ve heard good things from a couple of friends. I had no idea they were IB-accredited and the tuition is substantially lower than BSC. I probably should have looked into this option more closely 🙂 I should mention that French is a standard part of the BSC curriculum, as well, starting at Reception.
Rachel,
“Groove, competitive school sports are virtually non-existent in many European countries”
thats why we kick but in the Olympic games 🙂
“I actually don’t like the huge focus on sports and extracurricular activitie”
see the key word there is HUGE. its should be within the total experiance but not a Foucus or even a Huge focus.
also hard work is learned elsewhere. but with sports its more fun and rewarding quicker which is even more relevant with the “now” generation.
I have no idea why CPS did this community service thing to graduate. just plain out crazy. the community service stuff should be voulntary and shouldnt be used as “good marks” for collage adim.
i did community service in my teens some was plain voluntary by my own caring the rest was judicial.
“I should mention that French is a standard part of the BSC curriculum”
There are many schools that are pushing the french language, any one know why that is?
I would rather be forward looking and push Mandarin/Cantonese (or spanish)
at home my wife is teaching our son German and her native language, i try and toss in spanish. poor kid is going to be messed up and confused 🙂
“thats why we kick but in the Olympic games”
Exactly how many olympic athletes (aside from B-ball and track) were on their HS teams in the same sport? Most of them have separate club teams (or individual coaches) that do the most for their development.
Really, my objection is to high stakes football (aka Friday Night Lights) as an “integral” part of HS. It’s expensive and I don’t see the *incremental* benefit provided over the (many) other sports.
“many schools that are pushing the french language”
Lots of available French-speaking teachers?
France makes us feel guilty about McDs in their country?
School principals have French paramours?
Groove,
I think French gives the appearance of “higher class” than Spanish. But, once you know French (and Latin:)), learning Spanish is oh so simple. It’s also a world language (many European countries, Quebec, African countries). What’s your wife’s native language? Is it a good idea to toss in languages one is not a native speaker of?
Yeah, I expect Mandarin will be in our childrens’ future. It takes a while to filter the need for that through the system (educating teachers etc), but hopefully in 10 yrs, we’ll be there.
Rachel,
Lycee Francais is a very good school, but it’s a French school with English as a second language. Most of the classes are taught in French and only some in English. Most of the kids that attend it are native French speakers and HS is really geared towards taking Le Bac, not ACT or whatever test you have to take to be accepted to American university.
I know parents those kids go to LF and they are very happy with it – but they are French expats.
Also LF de Chicago is part of Agence pour l’enseignement francais a l’etranger and sponsored by French Government and this makes it very different from British School.
“at home my wife is teaching our son German and her native language, i try and toss in spanish. poor kid is going to be messed up and confused”
The Dank Haus in Lincoln Square has a good Saturday program for German. 9am to noon, full school year, $475.
“Yeah, I expect Mandarin will be in our childrens’ future. It takes a while to filter the need for that through the system (educating teachers etc), but hopefully in 10 yrs, we’ll be there.”
I am seeing a huge fad regarding parents (all white) wanting to teach their kids Mandarin. I am curious as to the motivations behind this. Do you _honestly_ think it is going to give your kids any sort of competitive advantage in the future workplace? I can tell you honestly if that is the intent Spanish is a much better language. I hope school districts don’t bend to this faddish trend of teaching one’s kids Chinese.
Also you claim French is a world language but sorry to inform you the only two world western languages are English and Spanish. All other European languages have a base that is a shadow in comparison to English and Spanish.
Especially here in Chicagoland I can see the utility of teaching one’s kids Spanish, but the other languages I think kid’s time could be better occupied on other things.
Groove,
Most CPS schools now pushing Chinese and it’s hard to find public school with the French program!
surprised this didn’t get linked (sorry if I missed it):
http://www.chicagopublicradio.org/Content.aspx?audioID=40279
Chicago Takes on Bad Developers, With Mixed Results
Just a few years ago, homebuyers stampeded into brand-new condos all over Chicago. Then, reality hit. Water started leaking in. Mold crept up the walls. Elevators stopped working. Now the city of Chicago is trying to clean up the mess by chasing after developers responsible for shoddy work. But the city’s good intentions have, in some cases, made life even tougher for the homeowners.
Bob, I wasn’t arguing that French is more important than Spanish – and in the US that is certainly NOT the case. But it is a world language (heck, you can get around some Muslim countries in French)…And it is super easy to learn Spanish if you know French well, and the other way around.
We’ll need cultural education in addition to the Mandarin…Apparently negotiating in China is very different.
If you just start early enough, you are in no way limited to one foreign language (and again, multi-lingual education is common in Europe). So Spanish, French and Chinese are all possible! Of course, I doubt public schools will provide that kind of well-rounded education…
Rachel
“What’s your wife’s native language?”
her native tounge is Polish/Ukranie, her second is German, third is Russian, fourth is English. (given her english is now better than her russian she says). For me first is english, second is spanish.
“Is it a good idea to toss in languages one is not a native speaker of?”
thats why at home for our son we just stick to in this order English, German, polish and spanish. we decided to skip the ukraine and russian maybe when he turns 10.
“We’ll need cultural education in addition to the Mandarin”
Very very good point
Chi_Dad,
“The Dank Haus in Lincoln Square has a good Saturday program for German”
Kewl, actually my wife says german grammar is better than all the other languages she knows.
312,
“Most CPS schools now pushing Chinese and it’s hard to find public school with the French program!”
good to see the school forward looking, i didnt even know about that which schools?
Bob,
“I hope school districts don’t bend to this faddish trend of teaching one’s kids Chinese”
I dont feel its a fad (well it became one kind of) but looking into the future it is looking like the way to go business wise. china is the manufacturing capital now. even the manufacturing company i work for we have turned to china for raw materials, i would think knowing madarin could help me dealing with chinese vendors. or at least help when playing tour guide when they vist.
any colonial power language is going to offer some benefits, globally. that said, yeah, in Chicago you’d be nuts learning anything but Spanish if you’re thinking of staying here.
otoh, after a lifetime of Spanish classes (including AP) and growing up with Mexican and Puerto Ricans a plenty, I can’t speak Spanish to save my life. Immersion is really what it takes…
I don’t think most parents can realistically predict the future that far out. Also if they are pushing their kid(s) because they think being able to talk to a Chinese vendor over the phone that is a large disconnect from reality. Chinese vendors have people on the phone quite capable of speaking English.
The Chinese who don’t speak English are earning the equivalent of $4,000/year working 60hrs per week assembling widgets OR (rarely) are very high up execs with translators. The parents pushing their kids towards Mandarin don’t seem to get that its not really an “in-demand” language, or at least not nearly to the level that they perceive it.
Just because the McWalMart crap most Americans buy today is made in China does not mean speaking the language will be an invaluable skill in reality. I think its more a product of media hype and parents succumbing to it. I challenge anyone else to posit otherwise.
“I challenge anyone else to posit otherwise.”
It’s already been posited otherwise.
But to counter your point, there’s really then no reason to learn *any* other language, except for the bare exercise/knowledge of it.
“because they think being able to talk to a Chinese vendor over the phone that is a large disconnect from reality. Chinese vendors have people on the phone quite capable of speaking English.”
Bob,
come on your a/were a business major you have to see the trends and how its shifting and where its going. dont give crap about disconnect to reality.
We bought a company few years back that all its raw material and manufacturing is out of china, and since we have grown it we hired two Chinese employee’s to handle relations/purchasing/inventory/travel/all other crap with them.
Its global economy already brother and we are lucky english is the most common of its languages cause your job would already be out sourced to a person multi-lingual
Groove,
I don’t remember all of them, but from the top of my head – Bell, Alcott, LaSalle and LaSalle II, bunch of other magnet and IB schools. Chinese is definitely a new trend in CPS. And every other school has some type of Spanish program.
Funny, my very good school friend back in my home country hired authentic Chinese guy (it was PITA to find one!) to come to her house every day for an hour or two and teach her 3 month old Chinese. After two years later little guy is fluent in Chinese, he also mastered the use of chopsticks:). Their argument was that English is dead as a word language and in 20 years or so we will all have to speak Chinese in order to be successful in the global economy.
Groove,
Its tough for me to debate with one big on assumptions and perceptions and short on facts. The most common of its languages across the world are Spanish and English with a comparable number of native speakers (people who speak other western languages tend to speak one of these two as well). Chinese (Mandarin) has a comparable number of speakers to those two but that’s directly related to its population.
“Its global economy already brother and we are lucky english is the most common of its languages”
Your friend is funny. And if they think that their child speaking Mandarin is going to allow them to seamlessly blend in with the Chinese and their culture that’s even more hilarious. You should’ve asked him the comparable GDP of China and the US. My guess is they haven’t a clue. As for the little one mastering chop sticks as well–I feel really sorry the parents have no culture of their own to imbue on their children. That’s certainly what it sounds like–lost white suburbanites. Maybe the parents will at least one day be able to pronounce Kung Pao chicken correctly.
“Their argument was that English is dead as a word language and in 20 years or so we will all have to speak Chinese in order to be successful in the global economy.”
Bob,
I cannot say I 100% agree with their view of global trends, but they are not totally of the track. Both parents travel for work extensively all over the world and they both speak English and Arabic (as foreign languages), so this is a valid opinion.
It’s a great to be able to communicate in other language(s) – not the worst use of time, effort and money. Not everyone sees US as a center of universe, so I can understand their preference of Chinese over English.
Of course kid speaks other 2 languages that are native to this area, so they are not “lost white suburbanites” family by any means. This phenomenon “lost white suburbanites” doesn’t even exist in my home country!
“Its tough for me to debate with one big on assumptions and perceptions and short on facts.”
bro you know i never post “facts” only personal experiences and observations. I have to do my Job and I don’t have enough time to fact dig and honestly this is a interweb blog and dont really care to do the leg work. (same reason i dont spell check or proof read i just type and go).
312,
Thank you, i will keep that into consideration when we move. given there are hardly any listings in bell area and the other areas are pricey!!!
“Groove,
I don’t remember all of them, but from the top of my head – Bell, Alcott, LaSalle and LaSalle II, bunch of other magnet and IB schools. Chinese is definitely a new trend in CPS.”
“And every other school has some type of Spanish program”
dont get me started on that 🙁
40 years ago it was ‘Russian’ 20 years ago it was ‘Japanese’ and in the last 10 years its been ‘Chinese’.
You just wait and see. China has empty skyscrapers, empty malls, empty cities, terrible pollution, a command economy with fraudulent statistics, etc.
“Their argument was that English is dead as a word language and in 20 years or so we will all have to speak Chinese in order to be successful in the global economy.”
China will still be a player in the world economy, but it’s going to take a them foreign war on multiple fronts to become the ‘superpower’ that all the kool-aid drinkers in the world think China will be. China will be the next crash, and big time. He’s calling it Dubai x 1000, which is a pretty bold statement:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a6i2PSZD.Jr4
There are actually wide-ranging opportunities for Chinese instruction in CPS, not only what 312 mentioned, but also through the Confucius Institute @ Payton, summer programs, trips to China, at classical Schools, World Language Schools, Interational Studies schools, and many others.
With a couple exceptions (Payton, Lindblom, a few others), high schools are still lacking, but in elementary school, it may be that there are more opportunities for Chinese programs in the public schools than in private (they’ve gotten a bunch of money from the Feds, from businesses, and from China!)
Groove,
Yeah, your wife is right, German grammar is fantastic (well, the Latin one is, too – but we don’t want get into the value of dead languages here:)…
I still think knowledge of Mandarin will be an advantage – to what extent I don’t know. And I do know that the language won’t insert us into the culture (I heard from a Chinese American that Chinese in the US tend to advertise a car, say, in Chinese when it’s a good deal, and in English when it’s a lemon), and have read plenty about the difficulty of foreigners making deals in China. Hence my comment about the importance not to neglect cultural education.
I also know quite a few Chinese, even with advanced degrees obtained in the US, who can barely communicate in English (their English is barely intelligible even after 10+ yrs in the US). Their foreign language instruction is simply not designed for actual communication. Of course, we may have similar issues with Chinese: Indeed, one of my main worries about Chinese in school is the huge cost/effort associated with learning it, as it is a very different language.
And the chopstick baby, they better keep it up for quite a few years, otherwise that knowledge will be forgotten all too soon.
“Yeah, your wife is right, German grammar is fantastic”
oops it was supposed to read HER german grammar is better than HER english, russian, ukraine and polish.
sorry about that (see above post to Bob, i dont proof read).
“40 years ago it was ‘Russian’ 20 years ago it was ‘Japanese’ and in the last 10 years its been ‘Chinese’. ”
Reminds me of the 1980s, where the Nikkei was soaring, the Japanese bought Rockefeller center and in hollywood movie-films (borat term intentional) involving businesspeople everyone was eating sushi. Several blocks of downtown Tokyo real estate was worth more than all the RE in the entire state of CA at one point. Look how that turned out for them.
No more hollywood movie-films about the land of the rising sun and their business acumen and how they’re going to be the new global ruling class. From heros to zeros in the course of a decade. Everything apparently wasn’t Zen & Sun Tzu afterall.
China has to play catch up and learn English – not the other way around. English is the lingua franca and 20 years growth of a communist society won’t change that.
I’m sure some of us remember when Russian was widespead; whatever happened to that?
Bob, you might want to revisit the state of Japan’s economy – while we were subsidizing Hummers, agrobusiness, fossil fuels and not raising CAFE standards they overtook us in solar PV development (as did Germany, Spain, etc.).
Pitiful. Real estate is actually pretty irrelevant when viewed out of context of the energy required to make it livable.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704479404575088162722320100.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
“The positive data could reduce fears that growth in the world’s second largest economy will slow again toward the middle of the year as fiscal policy support for the economy fades, analysts said. If private demand remains firm, helping Japan get over deflation, that could also reduce pressure on the government and the Bank of Japan to take further economic stimulus steps in coming months.
Japan’s nationwide core consumer price index fell for the 11th-straight month in January, matching economists’ consensus forecast for a 1.3% on-year drop. The core figures exclude volatile fresh food prices.”
Man if my parents had forced me to learn Japanese in the 80s because it was faddish I’d be pretty pissed at them because aside from the sushi restaurant waitstaff being slightly impressed I don’t think all that expense and effort would’ve had a good payoff.
Now if they had forced me to learn Spanish..well I’d probably thank them for that.
My older sister knows a bunch of languages: Russian, German, Latin, English. She works at a low level corp position and rarely has an opportunity to use her knowledge.
Pretty soon the entire language thing will be moot anyway as you’ll be able to talk into a cellphone and it will be able to do voice translation (even using your exact same voice). Might even be here already.
No the US is not the center of the universe, but it seems among white collar circles everybody thinks they do far more international jet setting than they actually do in reality. In LA chinese makes more sense, after spanish of course.
“standards they overtook us in solar PV development (as did Germany, Spain, etc.).”
Incorrect. Perhaps solar PV deployment but last time I checked it is a US firm that is pushing the technological envelope with regard to solar PV, whose panels currently have 19.2% solar efficiency. Sunpower (SPWRA) just came out recently with another most efficient solar panel. This was possible via a DOE grant provided by US taxpayer dollars, not Japan, Germany, or any other country’s government dollars.
http://investors.sunpowercorp.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=417965
groove sez:
“at home my wife is teaching our son German and her native language, i try and toss in spanish. poor kid is going to be messed up and confused :)”
Nope, actually, I think it’s good for the growing brain to get this kind of creative workout. Many folks grow up in a bilingual home, and speak two languages from birth (like I did). I think it made learning a third language very easy in HS, and I’m glad I can understand the world and other cultures in a broader way than others can. It’s a good thing, Groove!
and, re: the “bully kid” they wouldn’t let into British… I’ll bet it was way less about the kid tormenting others, and way more about him being a disruptive, uncontrolled little ruffian that the teachers simply don’t want to have to deal with. Where there’s bullying, there’s other behavioral/social problems, and I’ll bet this kid will have a troubled adolescence no matter where they put him.
yall have a great weekend see ya monday 🙂
“Man if my parents had forced me to learn Japanese in the 80s because it was faddish I’d be pretty pissed at them because aside from the sushi restaurant waitstaff being slightly impressed I don’t think all that expense and effort would’ve had a good payoff.”
But bob, you could grow a ponytail, move to Japan and get laid 24/7 if you knew Japanese…
Sonies:
Having visited Tokyo, while you are being facetious, you are also correct. Actually ditch the ponytail though and go have fun in Roppongi.
I love this building. You can really tell it’s top notch quality. I’d love to live that close to Wrigley Field. Thumbs up!
China:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ7kFn9x-Rc&feature=player_embedded#
No bubble here folks, nothing to see, keep moving along.
“Pretty soon the entire language thing will be moot anyway as you’ll be able to talk into a cellphone and it will be able to do voice translation ”
Yeah, *that* won’t cause any problems. Idiomatic translation springs to mind, even before we get into tone and slight mispronunciations by the speaker. It might happen soon, but it’s going to have a limited vocabulary on both sides and the speaker will have to know enough of the other language–or at least the translation dictionary–to avoid confusinge verbiage.
From Today’s Tribune:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/northnorthwest/ct-met-chinese-classes-0304-20100304,0,2167091.story
Unit 3N is a 3/2 in this building and came on the MLS two days ago with an ask of 490k. MLS 07907750.