Get 2000 Sq. Ft and 3 Bedrooms for Under $330K in Roscoe Village: 2115 W. Roscoe
This 3-bedroom bank owned unit at 2115 W. Roscoe, literally in the heart of Roscoe Village, has been on the market since September 2010.
The bank has not been able to sell it.
Originally listed at $439,000 in September, the bank has been dropping the price but got aggressive this week when it dropped the price $40k in one day to $329,900.
It is now listed $210,100 under the 2005 purchase price.
Built in a 2004 building above some shops on Roscoe, it appears, from the pictures, to have the kitchen and baths intact.
It has stainless steel appliances, granite counter tops and brazilian wood floors throughout.
The unit also has an in-unit washer/dryer and garage parking. The listing says no central air- but I think that is just a mistake in the listing given the era of the building.
What does this sale mean for similar 3/2 units nearby on the market in the $500,000s? (such as 2152 W. Roscoe listed at $519,000– see the pictures here.)
And why isn’t this selling?
Carole O’Neill at Equity Ventures Realty has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #2: 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 2000 square feet
- Sold in November 2004 for $529,000
- Sold in November 2005 for $540,000
- Lis pendens foreclosure filed in July 2009
- Bank owned in July 2010
- Originally listed in September 2010 at $439,000
- Several reductions
- Was listed on January 24, 2011 at $369,900
- Reduced on January 25, 2011 to $329,900
- Currently still listed at $329,900
- No assessments listed
- Taxes of $7696
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Central Air (?)
- Garage parking included
- Bedroom #1: 17×14
- Bedroom #2: 14×11
- Bedroom #3: 12×11
This looks like a good deal to me.
does seem like a good deal but those pictures make it look small for being listed as 2000 sq ft.
Yeah this seems great to me. But I bet the CC’ers can find the catch. Or perhaps they want to spur a bidding war?
I don’t know what people don’t understand here – things were not selling because people were not in the market- NOT because of the price. Give it a couple of months – when people are more confident in the economy and start really looking to buy – this place will be gone in a flash.
Banks are smart to hold on to properties. Think about it – if you are not in the market for a car – it doesn’t matter if a Mercedes dealership lowers the price of an SL500 from 105k to 55k. Lowering it further WILL get it sold ONLY because investors or business type people know they can make a profit re-selling – but the dealer would be an idiot to lower the price – they just need to wait until more people are in the market for a car. It really is that simple of a concept….
As to my last post – has anyone else seen a huge number of properties go under contract in the past week? There have been about 50-75 properties that I have been watching over the past 6 months-2 years (yeah, 2 years) that have languished on the market and have all of a sudden gone under contract. I, myself, am beginning to feel the idiotic panic I used to feel in the mid 2000s!!!!!
“Banks are smart to hold on to properties.”
1. Good luck making the argument that banks in the real estate market are smart.
2. This place just celebrated it’s 2 year anniversary on the market, so it wasn’t really “held back”.
That said, this place looks like a decent deal if you don’t mind a middle floor walk up.
I have seen the same as clio – the market is really revving up and people are out buying properties again. I’m pretty sure it’s the interest rates that are the primary catalyst – people don’t want to ‘miss’ low mortgage rates – and now that they’ve seen rates going higher again they’re getting off their couches and locking in now.
I’ll guess that, as a result of the cribchatter publicity, this place will be under contract by Monday.
Banks are not in the real estate sales business. Kudos to this bank for acknowledging that fact and being aggressive in lowering the price for a sale. It is not so easy to use REO properties as comps to conventional sales. There could be any number of issues with them, and they are almost always sold as is. There is a cost associated with as-is sales and buyers should always price that into a “discounted” REO.
” Kudos to this bank for acknowledging that fact and being aggressive in lowering the price for a sale.”
wha…?!! Any business knows that if there isn’t a market for something, you can do two things – wait or significantly discount the price (STUPID). Most banks are smart and have been waiting (also smart not to repossess homes because they know a vacant property will be worse than the homeowners living there – even if they aren’t paying). However, now banks are starting to repossess the houses because they know the market is improving. They will put these houses on the market during a time when demand is increasing and will therefore be able to get a better price. Again, it really is quite simple…. ask any bank CEO and they will tell you this strategy – it’s no secret.
“ask any bank CEO and they will tell you this strategy – it’s no secret.”
Damn, I knew there was somethingI wanted to ask the CEOs I run with but I was so distracted by Uptown versus Lakeview comparisons 🙂
The issues with this property are:
1. There is no association (plus the other res. unit is bank owned)
2. It’s above a restaurant
3. It’s nowhere NEAR 2000 sf. (probably closer to 1500 sf tops)
This is probably about where this should have always been priced.
There are some negatives here: Cinder block new construction, second floor, Jimmy John’s below the unit, on Roscoe (front row seats for Hairbangers Ball and all the “fun” at Retro On Roscoe).
Think about it: 20% down plus closing costs/taxes = $70,000 downstroke. Assuming an assessment of $300 per month (guessing), and pristine credit (4.875% financing) = about $2330 per month all in, and taxes will go up.
Why is this such a deal? I think this place would be fun for someone for a few years. Does that warrent tying up $70k cash and assuming a payment roughly equal to renting it?? Seems like a liquidity trap.
” Most banks are smart and have been waiting (also smart not to repossess homes because they know a vacant property will be worse than the homeowners living there – even if they aren’t paying). However, now banks are starting to repossess the houses because they know the market is improving. ”
Uh, NO. Banks are foreclosing because the OCC and FDIC have told them to clean up their balance sheets, get non-performing loans off the books. Call the CEO’s at Old Second, Metropolitan and Cole Taylor, all looking for investment capital since they’ve been forced to sell these dogs. The market will soon be flooded with even more distressed properties, selling for a dime on the dollar.
“Think about it: 20% down plus closing costs/taxes = $70,000 downstroke. Assuming an assessment of $300 per month (guessing), and pristine credit (4.875% financing) = about $2330 per month all in, and taxes will go up.”
Also think about re-selling in 5 years for 400-450k. You guys really can’t forget about appreciation (which is even greater for properties you can get very cheap now).
I remember back in the day folks would rent places like this above stores.
“Uh, NO. Banks are foreclosing because the OCC and FDIC have told them to clean up their balance sheets, get non-performing loans off the books”
hahhahahahahahahah – these banks have the govt. in their pocket (or are you kidding?). The congressional hearings, bank behavior, etc. is all show for the american/world audience. Banks area going to do what is best for the banks – not the people, not the government, etc. Come on – open your eyes.
“Also think about re-selling in 5 years for 400-450k.”
Clio- even you have admitted in the past that when prices go up it will be just 1% to 3%.
If this actually sells for the ask- how do you get $400k in 5 years with 1% to 3% annual appreciation? Even at 3% a year you don’t even get close.
And then you have to subtract 8% to 9% for transaction costs when you go to sell in 5 years. So- what do you get? Maybe 6% appreciation, in a good case scenario, over those 5 years. And that’s only if prices actually start going up.
As for closings rising- I’m seeing a bunch of them but they were for properties that went under contract months ago. I’ve been hearing from people that it is really, really hard to close on properties now and those that do are taking longer than the normal 30 days.
1) I highly doubt its 2000 sqft unless they count the stairwells and the balconies and the garage space
2) its right above a Jimmy Johns
3) who knows what the assessments are like
4) I don’t think you can get a loan for a place like this
“”Think about it: 20% down plus closing costs/taxes = $70,000 downstroke. Assuming an assessment of $300 per month (guessing), and pristine credit (4.875% financing) = about $2330 per month all in, and taxes will go up.
Why is this such a deal? I think this place would be fun for someone for a few years. Does that warrent tying up $70k cash and assuming a payment roughly equal to renting it?? Seems like a liquidity trap”
in all fairness, those taxes can surely be appealed. they are WAY too high.
“Again, it really is quite simple…. ask any bank CEO and they will tell you this strategy – it’s no secret.”
The banks have no strategy. Some of them don’t even know what properties they own.
Yeah, its one thing to have ground floor stores in a high rise downtown (normal and there are usually 5-6 floors of parking as a smell and noise buffer). But above a restuarant in a 3-flat…no way. In my grandparent’s day that was a lower east side tenament.
Clio-
I bite my tongue nearly every day as I digest some of your assumptions. I don’t believe that the market for this type of place will be any more robust than it is today. It’s cinder block mediocracy at best. And, quite a commodty in Chicago.
That said, I do share your belief that real estate is a good buy today IF you can hold for 5-10 years. Places like this are for renting, IMO.
clio you are missing one huge point with your whole arguement
carrying costs, upkeep costs, and depreciation
yes it makes sense to “hold on and wait” with something that isn’t losing value every day… but in housing in a declining market it makes sense to unload the properties as quickly as the market will allow because I don’t think banks want to be in the home maintenance business, because believe it or not, most places require constant upkeep otherwise they lose value even faster
$450k in 5 years!?!?!? You think this place is going to appreciate 24k a year until 2016?!! (and that’s saying it sells for asking price!)
Please tell me you are joking or the most unrealistic optimist I have ever known.
I would never ever buy this place hoping I’d sell for 450k by 2016.
That being said, it’s nice to see a kitchen that isn’t cookie cutter. That’s a good thing too, because you’d have to do a lot of cooking to cover up the JJ’s “free smells”
“because you’d have to do a lot of cooking to cover up the JJ’s “free smells””
hahahaha thats gold
“As for closings rising- I’m seeing a bunch of them but they were for properties that went under contract months ago. I’ve been hearing from people that it is really, really hard to close on properties now and those that do are taking longer than the normal 30 days.”
Sabrina – what are people saying is the root cause of the issue with closing? i don’t know anyone that’s tried to close recently, but two of my friends last year didn’t report any issues. however, i am seeing the same thing on the redfin properties i watch – staying under contract for a LOONNNG time.
I’m watching two neighborhoods closely. Two nice neighborhoods. There are about 40 new properties a day in these two neighborhoods. And, one sale every three days or so. So, I haven’t seen evidence that the market is revving up again. Or, only revving up in the sense that a ton of stuff is coming to market.
“$450k in 5 years!?!?!? You think this place is going to appreciate 24k a year until 2016?!! (and that’s saying it sells for asking price!)
Please tell me you are joking or the most unrealistic optimist I have ever known.”
ABSOLUTELY not out of the question. I am not talking about all properties appreciating this much – but this particular one, maybe…. We see it everyday – people/investors buying properties at a certain price, putting minimal money into a rehab/reno, staging it and selling it for profit (some have been featured on cribchatter). In 5 years, at 450k – that is a 7% appreciation/year – for a property that, in my opinion is below its value at the current moment). Absolutely not out of the question.
What two neighborhoods are those? And what types of properties?
“but in housing in a declining market it makes sense to unload the properties as quickly as the market will allo”
Of course – but that is assuming that we will continue to be in a declining market. I have a very strong feeling that we are going to be seeing steady appreciation in real estate for the next 10 years –
perhaps its super bowl listing fever!
whitecity on January 27th, 2011 at 8:56 am
$450k in 5 years!?!?!? You think this place is going to appreciate 24k a year until 2016?!! (and that’s saying it sells for asking price!)
Please tell me you are joking or the most unrealistic optimist I have ever known.
______________________________________________________
I think $450k is possible in 2016 – all it will take is the completion of QE2, the implementation and failure of QE3 and the implementation of QE4 – sure oil might be $200 a barrel and food prices will double, but this property could go up that much if the Fed keeps printing money. IMO, the best reason to buy now isn’t because you think the price of the place will rise rapidly in real terms, it’s that the Fed is actively stomping on the value of the dollar and when that happens, hard assets and long term fixed low interest rate debt are pretty good hedging tools for consumers until financial sanity returns. I’m still pretty bearish about RE right now, but I’m 10x more bearish about the level of competence of the country’s leadership.
“I have a very strong feeling that we are going to be seeing steady appreciation in real estate for the next 10 years”
well feelings are great and all, but the market fundimentals say that isn’t going to be likely at all.
I will admit I think we’re close to a bottom, but there won’t be any real appreciation… just prices keeping up with inflation, which in 10 years “could” be significant
“We see it everyday – people/investors buying properties at a certain price, putting minimal money into a rehab/reno, staging it and selling it for profit (some have been featured on cribchatter).”
I don’t think this is a flip property like others that have been featured. The property IS ready to move in. It’s not missing a kitchen, painted bright orange with green shag carpeting, or something else that the “average buyer” is too lazy to fix up.
I know I won’t get you to agree and i don’t even know if I’d ever be able to prove my point that this won’t be worth $450k in 5 years, but agree to disagree I suppose.
“well feelings are great and all, but the market fundimentals say that isn’t going to be likely at all.”
unfortunately these “feelings” often get in the way of market fundamentals. come on, sonies – how many times have economists theoretically and fundamentally predicted things that should have happened but didn’t? More than you think!!
Clio-“Banks area going to do what is best for the banks – not the people, not the government, etc. Come on – open your eyes.”
Is that why all these banks are being shut down by the FDIC, because it’s “good” for the employees, all of whom have their pensions (in bank stock) wiped out? Yea, ask the former employees of Wheatland Bank how “good” it was to be shut down.
whitecity – I actually wouldnt bet that this place is worth 450k in 5 years – I was using it as an example of why it might make sense to buy something LIKE this for a price that I think is below its true value – you DO have to look at appreciation. Seriously, folks – I am really beginning to feel and see the investors start coming out of their caves. Be aggressive with properties you think are good values because they WILL be gone faster than you expect!!
“Places like this are for renting, IMO.”
According to CC’ers these seem to be the places that should only be rented, never bought:
-Anything near the EL
-Anything too far from the EL
-Anything above a restaurant or certain types of stores
-Anything on the first floor / garden level
-Anything with less than 3 bedrooms
-Anything without a dedicated parking space, generally covered and heated
-Anything within 1/2 mile of public housing
-Anything on a main street (Clybourn, Belmont, etc. etc.)
-Anything without central air, in unit w/d
-Most things made since 2003-ish (they are all cookie cutter, low quality, cinder-block types)
-Any SFH not on a standard size lot or larger
-I could probably keep going but I have work to do.
So what percent of properties in the GZ are actually OK to buy? And what is one to do if we never expect to make $250,000+/yr to afford the allowable places?
“I think $450k is possible in 2016 – all it will take is the completion of QE2, the implementation and failure of QE3 and the implementation of QE4 – sure oil might be $200 a barrel and food prices will double, but this property could go up that much if the Fed keeps printing money.”
Hmm, you bring up a very good point. You are going to need to be extremely close to JJs so you can buy their day-old bread.
I would suggest bidding above ask just to make sure you are the one to snap up this gem.
“Damn, I knew there was somethingI wanted to ask the CEOs I run with but I was so distracted by Uptown versus Lakeview comparisons”
Icarus,
Just know there is no comparison, Uptown kicks Lakeview’s ass any day.Too many Yuppies for me! :-0
We just discovered that there is a beautiful 3/2 newer construction right on my block going for $200. That is after it sold in 2002 for $298,000.00! I think the realtor is just trying to start a bidding war.
“Is that why all these banks are being shut down by the FDIC, because it’s “good” for the employees, all of whom have their pensions (in bank stock) wiped out?”
No big banks are closing – in fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if these big banks threw these smaller banks under the bus for their own benefit!!!
That is hilarious DC – AND very accurate!!
to clio @ 7.34. i made an offer – that was accepted – for a sfh in 60093. perhaps i’m one of your “50-75 properties”? i’m trying not to sound like clio but a beautiful sfh in winnetka, with the schools and lake and amenities etc for
Wow – looks like we’re on the rebound!!!:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/December-pending-home-sales-rb-323944565.html;_ylt=Avh_cii9bWIl2qCjKM1BEVi7YWsA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1dHFhdjhxBHBvcwM0BHNlYwN0b3BTdG9yaWVzBHNsawNwZW5kaW5naG9tZXM-?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=1&asset=&ccode=
Of course – I don’t trust the media at all – it’s all BS!!!
clio on January 27th, 2011 at 8:43 am
“Think about it: 20% down plus closing costs/taxes = $70,000 downstroke. Assuming an assessment of $300 per month (guessing), and pristine credit (4.875% financing) = about $2330 per month all in, and taxes will go up.”
Also think about re-selling in 5 years for 400-450k. You guys really can’t forget about appreciation (which is even greater for properties you can get very cheap now).”
So Clio I think this is what causes the confusion and eventual slamming of you: someone posted an example of the mortgage specific to THIS property and then you countered with your comment about re-selling in 5 years for $400K. You may have *meant* a property like this one but you came off as sounding like you had this specific property in mind.
DC-
Have you been talking with my realtor? Add “nothing west of Western” and you have my exact criteria!
Good news is my criteria has gone from ‘fantasy’ in 2006 to ‘reality’ in 2011!
Chris M
Lincoln Park/Near North Side – I don’t think I have any qualifiers on there – all prices, all sizes.
Icarus – come on – this is a real estate site that is meant to promote discussion about real estate in general – this is NOT the MLS or a Realtor site trying to match a buyer with a specific property. Nobody is looking at cribchatter to find properties to buy – you should know that by now. My comments are almost always more general (tied to the subject property) but encompassing many more like it. I really shouldn’t have had to explain that……
“Also think about re-selling in 5 years for 400-450k.”
“In 5 years, at 450k – that is a 7% appreciation/year – for a property that, in my opinion is below its value at the current moment). Absolutely not out of the question.”
“I actually wouldnt bet that this place is worth 450k in 5 years – I was using it as an example of why it might make sense to buy something LIKE this for a price that I think is below its true value”
Clio, you make me laugh. I hope you are here for more entertainment sake than actually trying to give people real estate advice 🙂
whitecity – I am not saying anything contradictory – I said that 450 in 2016 is “absolutely not out of the question” but also that I would not “bet that this place would be worth that amount”. You DO understand that “not out of the question” = possibility and the fact that I wouldn’t bet on it = low/medium probability. Probability and possibility are two entirely separate but related entities. The more you learn, the less confused you will be….
“According to CC’ers these seem to be the places that should only be rented, never bought:”
DC you should have kept going i enjoyed each and every word! epic funny
Ha, Clio! I never said you were being contradictory OR I was confused!!!
You said that……and what would make you think either of these things? All I did was copy and paste your own posts. You drew the conclusions about “you being contradictory & me being confused”
DC don’t forget
only rent places with 1 bathroom
Whitecity – what is your game? You want to win over me? – OK, you win – you are smarter and better and more clever. There – now let’s get back to the real estate discussion.
DC – You can add – “anything in Uptown” to that list…. LOL. I’m on a roll. “Anything South Of Madison…..” Anything with a wood-burning fireplace…… 😉
DC, bless you. I am going to make business cards with this list and hand them to all future RE agents that take on our business. (Although we’ll have to add: “not well-suited for vampires”.)
Chicago area #2 in home repossesions. What did you say, clio, banks are not foreclosing?
http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.com/article/20110127/CRED0701/110129866/chicago-area-no-2-in-home-repossessions-last-year#axzz1C3eVNqZ5
Why, thank you!
But regardless, I DO try to follow (and maybe even support sometimes!) your real estate discussion, however it is difficult to determine your point, direction or advice often – so therefore someone (typically not me) calls you out. I’m just giving you some constructive criticism on how to better formulate your arguments for your point of view. That’s all.
“Chicago area #2 in home repossesions. What did you say, clio, banks are not foreclosing?”
uhhh – no I never said that – ever. I said that the banks have been HOLDING OFF on repossessing until the market improved. Now that they know the market is improving, they are starting to repossess the homes (because they ARE going to start putting them on the market) – that was my whole point – everyone was wondering why banks weren’t repossessing – it was because they didn’t want to leave properties vacant in a bad market – now that the market is improving (and their books are improving), they are repossessing and releasing these properties to the market – THIS IS ACTUALLY A SIGN THAT THE BANKS ARE MORE CONFIDENT IN THE REAL ESTATE MARKET AND ARE MORE HEALTHY THEMSELVES. Again, this is all very logical and simple – seriously, just follow the logic – think like the banks and everything will become clear….
“As to my last post – has anyone else seen a huge number of properties go under contract in the past week? There have been about 50-75 properties that I have been watching over the past 6 months-2 years (yeah, 2 years) that have languished on the market and have all of a sudden gone under contract. I, myself, am beginning to feel the idiotic panic I used to feel in the mid 2000s!!!!!” – clio
“I have seen the same as clio – the market is really revving up and people are out buying properties again. I’m pretty sure it’s the interest rates that are the primary catalyst – people don’t want to ‘miss’ low mortgage rates – and now that they’ve seen rates going higher again they’re getting off their couches and locking in now.” – Joe
Now, for some actual facts:
New Contracts
Attached & Detached SFH
1/15/xxxx thru 1/25/xxxx
All Cook County
2011 1,354
2010 1,341
2009 847
2008 1,235
2007 2,070
2006 2,190
2005 2,103
All Lake County
2011 217
2010 212
2009 115
2008 184
2007 288
2006 346
2005 315
All DuPage County
2011 268
2010 256
2009 156
2008 225
2007 380
2006 450
2005 405
All Chicago
2011 640
2010 667
2009 426
2008 685
2007 1,127
2006 1,031
2005 1,068
Near North
2011 54
2010 55
2009 38
2008 84
2007 295
2006 124
2005 108
Lincoln Park
2011 21
2010 24
2009 9
2008 35
2007 33
2006 38
2005 54
Lake View
2011 40
2010 34
2009 25
2008 57
2007 58
2006 94
2005 83
Oak Brook
2011 4
2010 4
2009 1
2008 3
2007 5
2006 4
2005 6
Hinsdale
2011 9
2010 7
2009 12
2008 4
2007 11
2006 17
2005 13
Kenilworth
2011 1
2010 1
2009 0
2008 0
2007 3
2006 0
2005 2
Contracts for recent 7 day periods:
Near North
1/19/11-1/25/11 35
1/12/11-1/18/11 42
1/5/11-1/11/11 46
Lincoln Park
1/19/11-1/25/11 14
1/12/11-1/18/11 20
1/5/11-1/11/11 11
Lake View
1/19/11-1/25/11 27
1/12/11-1/18/11 25
1/5/11-1/11/11 16
This place is not a deal. It looks dismal and it smells like Jimmy Johns. Considering the normal bashing that goes on here, I’m pretty shocked anybody said this was a good deal.
Clio, I’ve also seen a wave of places go under contract. Its kinda frightening, I’m afraid i’ve been to aggressive with the returns i’ve been looking for.
Do you think the rise in number of places going under contract are because of folks getting scared of rising interest rates?
“I’ve been hearing from people that it is really, really hard to close on properties now and those that do are taking longer than the normal 30 days.”
I closed last month on a 2-flat and it took less than 30 days. Granted, I accepted the bank’s asking price to avoid the red tape; I’d say it can be done assuming you don’t plan on negotiating with a bank.
Curious G, does “under contract” mean financed only properties? Or do cash only deals count in that number too?
G – re-read my posts if you are that interested and bored. I said the 50-75 properties that I have been following for awhile are now starting to go under contract. Make yourself useful and give us information on the properties that have recently gone under contract (ie how many days were they on the market) – I would suspect that people, like me following these bargain properties are starting to buy them. Another sign that “people in the know” are starting to move. Seriously, people – you need to put some intelligence and thought when interpreting this data – it is not as simple as just presenting numbers and saying they are flat – you have to look at what types of properties are selling, what price range, where, etc. – otherwise you are nothing more than a computer (and those you can buy for 1000 atbest buy)
G,
Am I reading this right? I’m still a little hung over. Are you saying that in 2010 in Chicago, the whole year there were 667 new contracts, but in the first 26 days of 2011 there have been 640?
How many in Uptown? (We always get left out. ) 🙁
“I said the 50-75 properties that I have been following for awhile are now starting to go under contract.”
Wait, you’re saying that 50-75 properties are NOT under contract, but they are starting to go under contract? What does that mean? One is under contract? Two? Three?
But you see the trend – all will be under contract by next week, right?
JAson – no – he is comparing Jan 2010 to Jan 2011 in an attempt to prove me wrong when I said I noticed a lot of properties I have been following are going under contract. Like I said, more information is needed to make a real interpretation of what is going on.
“Seriously, people – you need to put some intelligence and thought when interpreting this data ”
Well gosh, I cannot even tell when Clio is talking in general or specifically about a property…i’m certainly not smart enough to interpret data.
Tipster – not sure if you are really interested in real estate of more interested in proving me wrong, etc. – but whatever – just skip over my posts. It really isn’t doing you, me, or anyone else here any good.
That makes more sense.
Decrease in prices brings an increase in volume. Ya think?
“Curious G, does “under contract” mean financed only properties? Or do cash only deals count in that number too?”
No. Yes.
Jason, are you looking for a SFH or condo? In Uptown?
“clio on January 27th, 2011 at 10:07 am
G – re-read my posts if you are that interested and bored. I said the 50-75 properties that I have been following for awhile are now starting to go under contract.”
Okay, I’m bored.
“clio on January 27th, 2011 at 7:34 am
There have been about 50-75 properties that I have been watching over the past 6 months-2 years (yeah, 2 years) that have languished on the market and have all of a sudden gone under contract.”
LOL.
G – not interested in playing with you. Please skip over my posts – we both have to be smart enough to realize when no more good can come over our constant back-and-forths. So, let’s just stop now. thanks
clio,
Please don’t take this as a slam, but…Some of us are actually interested in the properties featured on this website and what others (emphasis on plural) have to say about them. How about self-editing a bit and only chime in when you have something to add that might be beneficial to the discussion? Example – you’ve posted about 20 times to this discussion. Just a suggestion – do with it what you will. Thanks.
Jon – easy solution – don’t read my posts.
“Like I said, more information is needed to make a real interpretation of what is going on.”
Oh, I don’t know, I kind of believe that I offer just enough to make a real interpretation of your conclusions, clio.
“Jon – easy solution – don’t read my posts.”
Thanks for the suggestion. It would be an easy solution if you didn’t bait others into discussions regarding things unrelated to the property. It’s hard to sift through the 80 posts and weed out The Clio Show. People might like you more (here and in life) if you were to filter.
“People might like you more (here and in life) if you were to filter.”
Holy crap – do you think I post to get people to LIKE me?!! This isn’t a popularity contest or a personal website. This is a discussion about real estate. I have absolutely no problem with people challenging me and debating me – but when things get personal and idiotic, it does nobody any good – (no general useful information can come of it). As long as there is an HD out there, I feel I have to continue to post in order to balance the discussion and represent the positive side.
Icarus,
I ma not interested in buying, I live in Uptown and following Real-estate is kind of like a hobby for me. I am very happy with my place. If I had some extra capital right now I would love to buy some short-term flips. I am just afraid of what happens when interest rates go to 15%.
that would be easy if we had an ignore button
or just an ignore clio button
sonies – are you retarded? a very easy way to ignore me is to stop reading any post that has my name on it. For example, when it says “Clio on January 27th at 10.37 am” don’t read it.
You guys should get together and go bowling….
CB: “IMO, the best reason to buy now isn’t because you think the price of the place will rise rapidly in real terms, it’s that the Fed is actively stomping on the value of the dollar and when that happens, hard assets and long term fixed low interest rate debt are pretty good hedging tools for consumers until financial sanity returns.”
Is this typical CB trolling, or what you really think?
I agree that this is a reasonable scenario, and the reasonableness of it keeps me from participating in knocking any of clio’s future pricing predictions, as he’s made clear (when asked) that he is talking about nominal prices, not prices in 2011-equivalent USDs.
“This isn’t a popularity contest or a personal website.”
Thanks for making my point for me. It’s not your personal website – please post accordingly. And I’m out.
” I am just afraid of what happens when interest rates go to 15%.”
Jason, I don’t think interest rates will be anywhere near 15% anytime soon. They may start creeping back up to mid 6s by 2012-2013 but I don’t hear any talk about large increases in interest rates.
“$70,000 downstroke”
Talking ’bout he’s mad
Let’s take it to the stage, jack, come on!
And get up for the down stroke
Ah, parliament.
Jon – what part of “ignore me and my posts” don’t you understand?! Please – let’s keep the discussion to real estate.
G, very interesting, thank you!
At least the market is clearly more active now than in Jan of 09!
Do you have this for condos as well?
“Do you have this for condos as well?”
“Attached & Detached” includes Condos, THs, and SFRs, unless I misunderstand. Just no multi-units.
anyone know how long after sold it will hit the rec of deeds?
Yeah if the stock market keeps on rising and employments keeps on going, which despite all the naysayers here i think is pretty much definite, there is certainly going to be strong upward pressure on interest rates. Just glad I got my mortgage locked in a 3.97 apr (!!!!). Hopefully inflation will rise to 2 percent and after the interest deduction from my taxes, I’ll just have a free loan.
Groove, hard to say.. i’ve seen stuff post 1 yr afterwards. It generally is reported on MLS before public records.
I bought my place in Nov 2010, they recorded my sale before they recorded the Jan 2010 sale of the guy I bought it from.
“i’ve seen stuff post 1 yr afterwards. It generally is reported on MLS before public records”
ouch one year! I am not looking for a sold price, i know that part, i want to see what the winning competition mortgage is.
http://bpp.mit.edu/daily-price-indexes/?country=USA
looks like inflation is taking off (as of recent)
“Do you think the rise in number of places going under contract are because of folks getting scared of rising interest rates?”
No – I think that they realize that the economy is improving and buyers are going to start coming out of the woodwork. I really do know a lot of people who are watching several properties, waiting (like a lion preys on its kill) and now they are getting a little scared of the competition and so are pouncing. Now mind you I am not talking about ALL properties – only select properties that investors/flippers would be interested in.
“Hopefully inflation will rise to 2 percent ”
as measured by the government? — could take a while
or based in reality? — passed that point a long time ago.
““Attached & Detached” includes Condos, THs, and SFRs, unless I misunderstand. Just no multi-units.”
Ah, ok. Anyone want to bet if multi-unit contracts are up YOY the last few months? I’d guess they are.
p.s. one of the smallest lots around?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1160-E-54th-St-60615/home/13950285
nice appreciation ’99-’06? How will the ’06 buyer make out?
“anyone know how long after sold it will hit the rec of deeds?”
From when they actually record, 3-4 weeks, usually.
“I bought my place in Nov 2010, they recorded my sale before they recorded the Jan 2010 sale of the guy I bought it from.”
Recorded your deed before the prior deed? Yuo have a problem my friend, that you want to get fixed ASAP. Did you get title insurance? If so, file a claim *now*.
Roma – Are you interested in this place? Because I have a partner who has a son starting law school at U. of C. in the fall. He (my partner) could buy this place, have a place for his son to live for 3 years, and probably make a nice profit in 2014. Do you mind if I forward this to him?
“Recorded your deed before the prior deed? Yuo have a problem my friend, that you want to get fixed ASAP. Did you get title insurance? If so, file a claim *now*.”
Other than a technical problem (that can be fixed) what other problems could you see arising from this situation?
Forward away, Dr. Clio!
ANON (TFO) Is Correct.
clio:: sonies – are you retarded?
Not to get all Sarah Palin on you, but that’s incredibly offensive.
Regarding the property, I assume picture #6 is the master bedroom and picture #3 is one of the other bedrooms. Neither room is as large as I would expect in a 2000sf property (and one would have to assume they showed the larger/better of the 2 non-master bedrooms). Also, if there’s no association, that raises the question of what kind of maintenance has been done to the common areas/elements.
Madeline – I was going to ignore your post, but… are you frickin kidding me? – did you read what HE posted? I will NEVER insult or attack anyone unless they attack me first. If you want to comment on it, you have to be fair.
““anyone know how long after sold it will hit the rec of deeds?”
From when they actually record, 3-4 weeks, usually.”
thank bro.
Im worried that my mess up my chances of appealing my taxes, since it would then be a distressed sale when it wasn’t
good point clio, well does anyone have any thoughts on the issue with Trustees deed, vs normal deed?
Clio–
Maybe he could offer $49.95 for this place?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5345-S-Ellis-Ave-60615/unit-3H/home/16875215
At 7% annual appreciation, by the end of law school it would already be worth over $60.00
“My understanding of trustees deeds is that they are only for foreclosures”
No, a trustee’s deed is used *anytime* a trustee is executing a deed–like if the property is in a land trust or if there’s a receiver. It (basically) absolves the person executing the deed from liability the beneficial owner might have.
And your deed was from a land trust, so you’re good.
Here ya go, roma:
Combined Near North, Lincoln Park, Lake View
Multi-unit (2-4) contracts
2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011
Jan 18 16 9 5 4 8 6
Feb 28 19 21 12 2 5
Mar 30 23 20 9 7 15
Apr 28 18 11 13 5 18
May 29 25 19 12 6 11
Jun 18 14 12 7 5 11
Jul 19 17 22 11 12 10
Aug 27 15 6 10 14 6
Sep 22 14 6 7 6 9
Oct 20 14 10 5 11 10
Nov 22 6 8 6 6 13
Dec 15 16 10 4 8 14
“Maybe he could offer $49.95 for this place?”
That is a LOOOOOONG way from Laird Bell. Why would someone do that to their kid, unless they don’t really like the kid?
“I will NEVER insult or attack anyone unless they attack me first.”
ROFLMAO
Hmm its a co-op, may be hard to figure out what the appreciation will be, and at $923 a month to live in thats not exactly cheap (probably rental parity). Alot of banks stop lending on Co-ops, but having said that this place is VERY cheap.
I certainly couldnt see the price decling anymore.
clio, I never “personally attacked” you… but go ahead and remain in your own definition of your world, its cool
I viewed this place well over a year ago. It’d be a really good buy if it didn’t smell so bad.
clio:
Madeline – I was going to ignore your post, but… are you frickin kidding me? – did you read what HE posted? I will NEVER insult or attack anyone unless they attack me first. If you want to comment on it, you have to be fair.
I really don’t care which other commenters you insult (although I’d prefer that people didn’t personally insult one another). The people who post here are big boys and girls and can take care of themselves. What I’m objecting to is the use of the word “retarded”. It’s offensive (and juvenile, not to mention lazy).
gesco, I agree – 39k is a ridiculously low price for this place – a Huge potential problems is that the coop may not allow renters (therefore harder to sell in 3 years- this area is RIPE with rich U. of C. students but if you can’t rent to them, the value of this place drops. The pool of personal home buyers of this type of unit would be EXTREMELY small (because most professors and professionals that work at U. of C. would not buy this to live in).
Clio I think she means it might be offense to someone who has a learning disability or who has friends or family with that issue.
Madeline – lesson learned – now let’s move on to real estate….
G:
Hmmm, looks like perhaps some indication of an uptick there, but far from clear. Those are pretty small numbers — are those hoods representative of citywide totals?
Anon:
I wasn’t being entirely serious about the Ellis suggestion.
Even if it did allow renters they might wannt to approve all renters, and as 3 bedroom with tenants and potentially a turnover each year… seems like a bit of a headache.
Thanks! Those numbers were interesting and helpful.
There was an uptick at the end of last year that appears to have dropped off this month, at least on multi-units. I’ve been saying for a while that multi-units are hot hot hot.
G: Well, January isn’t over yet, though I’m sure our crack datajock G has his numbers updated thru today (or yesterday).
Feb-Jun were also all up YOY, tho again we’re dealing with very small totals here.
Question
who holds the lease for Jimmy Johns downstairs?
“I wasn’t being entirely serious about the Ellis suggestion.”
I know, but it was the first thing I thought of–may as well live in SLoop, cause he’d drive anyway.
“are those hoods representative of citywide totals?”
I can’t imagine so, as there’s the combo of so much of the multi-unit stock having been converted in those hoods and the implied land value making them not very realistic rental props, as compared to other hoods.
True, but that’s been the case since 06 at least, and we’re only curious about YOY movement.
I’m really just trying to ask G for the citywide totals without feeling too guilty about the repeated requests!
Back to the posted property, this price seems good to me. I’m 99% certain the problem is lack of HOA and resulting financing difficulties.
Disgree with TB on the taxes — they should go down ~30-40% on new sale and exemption. Right, anon?
The annual totals are:
276 197 154 101 86 130
With the 08-09 dip almost entirely from a flatlining after Lehman until Q3-09. The YOY variance looks pretty random, except the obv drop-off from 05 to 06 and after 06, which is (imo) attributable to the decrease in available units and unrealistic pricing.
“Disgree with TB on the taxes — they should go down ~30-40% on new sale and exemption. Right, anon?”
Probably need to appeal, too, so, assuming that number is actual 09 taxes (didnt check), with lower assessed value and HO, probably about 1/3 less, but subject to the general increase we should all expect going forward.
Also, if you need to appeal w/ counsel, expect to give them ~1/3 of your first year saving, in this case ~$1000, which still counts, to me.
Here is a comparable unit at 440 W SURF, in Lakeview 60657, which I’m sure that everyone here will agree is a much, much better neighborhood than Edgewater:
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/440-West-Surf-Street-Unit-2b_Chicago_IL_60657_M73917-73618
YES YES an absolutely beautiful 4 room 1 bed close to Broadway/clark/Diversey for $169K, and it has been on the market for nearly a year… has been relisted. It is a better apartment in a better building in a top neighborhood and it STILL is not selling. I’ve tracked it for a year. It has been reduced many times.
If the place at 440 W Surf can’t fetch $169K, I don’t see how this place is going to get much above $100K, given the difference in prices between 60657 and 60660.
All Chicago
Multi-unit (2-4) contracts
2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011
Jan 510 501 297 188 346 414 396
Feb 589 550 318 236 421 464
Mar 723 629 372 246 544 539
Apr 693 564 319 252 498 542
May 756 658 299 259 448 421
Jun 729 524 292 255 475 411
Jul 621 472 284 254 497 399
Aug 772 511 238 317 500 451
Sep 633 469 205 302 506 470
Oct 633 408 222 343 484 379
Nov 598 358 213 313 408 386
Dec 451 268 174 284 465 421
Tot 9713 7918 5240 5257 7601 7307
Def no uptick — if anything multiunit K’s are leveling off since a post-crash bounce. My prediction was wrong. Good thing no-one bet me.
Oh wait, this is Cribchatter, where evidence matters not a bit…
I’m STILL right, it’s just that: the numbers lie/it’s all psychological anyway/shadow inventory is pushing prices back to stone-age levels/Barack Obama is a communist/they’re not making any more land/the Chinese will buy it/this is Baghdad/funny money is everywhere/whatever, it’s all really the blacks and the jews and the gays fault (last one courtesy of one cribchatterer in particular)
p.s. anyone else think it’s interesting that post-Lehman, multi contracts are actually firmly rebounding from ’07 lows?
“anyone else think it’s interesting that post-Lehman, multi contracts are actually firmly rebounding from ‘07 lows?”
The edge came off the pricing. Two M-U teardowns on my block–one in 07 for a little over 600, one last year, on a wider lot, for under 450. Makes a big diff.
As someone looking for something comparable to this unit, the taxes are too high for this location, and we won’t buy anything with less than 2 garage parking spaces.
My wife and I looked at this property when it first came on the market two years ago. One thing stopped us in our tracks was financing.
When we discussed the property with our lender because it was greater than 25% commercial space they would not write the loan. As we had great credit and couldn’t get a loan, we dropped the idea like a hot rock as if we couldn’t finance it now… who would we be able to sell to if/when it came time to move.
We found something in the area (but not on Roscoe) and are very happy with the decision.
Let’s also not forget that, since mark to market accounting rules were relaxed a couple of years ago, banks were instantly give leeway to value properties at whatever they know think the properties “should” sell for in a “normal” market, vs what the current market would suggest.
Therefore, keeping somewhat inflated assets on the books may actually be better for some banks vs selling them.
Interestingly, when this was relaxed a couple of years ago, it got little to know media attention. And, whaddaya know, the banks were profitable the next quarter.
Yeah – that first “know” should be a “now”, and the second “know” should be a “no.”
…and I now know to it’s no good to post without rereading first!
Roma,
Multi unit (2-4) sales and prices trended up in the North Side neighborhoods I work in primarily (Lincoln Square, Lincoln Park, Lakevie etc…).
Unit sales are up over the past couple years as Anon mentioned due to prices first falling 20-30 percent or more on move-ins, tear down, and conversion grade multi-units. Prices are all over, but are up from the lows of the last year or so.
I’ve been writing about real owner/operator and single family converion deals for the past couple years in my markets and have had clients get some decent deals.
I know that two-three flat dumps in Albany Park, Logan Square, Avondale tec.. are getting picked up all the time when banks, lenders are willing to sell. I’m not into this market, but those numbers are way up. Real investors are picking up the disasters of wannabee real estate moguls of 2005-2006.
ER,
As I said upthread, my impression was that multi-unit sales were up. However, the data posted by G shows YOY declines in m-u contracts for the last 9 months. Maybe individual neighborhoods such as AP and LS defy the citywide trend, dunno. Lotta noise with such small totals.
As to the previous rise in volume, I am not surprised by the fact of it but rather the very definite timing–viz, the shift in YOY change that happens in Aug 08 and continues unabated right through the depths of the banking crisis. I would have thought activity was grinding to a standstill at least in Sept/Oct/Nov (surely at least closings #’s were depressed in those months, right??).
The problem with this place is definitely the square footage of the Retail in the building. Unless you buy with cash, no way you can get a Fannie/Freddie, FHA, or VA loan with more than 25% of the building being stores (which this is) Also, no mortgage insurance company will provide MI on a building with that percentage. I’m sure this place has had a lot of interest but everything drops dead because of the loan. Good luck!
I guess he hasn’t taken it yet. Reduced to $349.
#
clio on January 27th, 2011 at 11:07 am
Roma – Are you interested in this place? Because I have a partner who has a son starting law school at U. of C. in the fall. He (my partner) could buy this place, have a place for his son to live for 3 years, and probably make a nice profit in 2014. Do you mind if I forward this to him?
(1160 E 54th) Sold for $240k in January. A bit below the ’04 price but considerably higher than the ’99 price.
I guess he hasn’t taken it yet. Reduced to $349.
#
clio on January 27th, 2011 at 11:07 am
Roma – Are you interested in this place? Because I have a partner who has a son starting law school at U. of C. in the fall. He (my partner) could buy this place, have a place for his son to live for 3 years, and probably make a nice profit in 2014. Do you mind if I forward this to him?