2 Years Later This Unique 4-Bedroom Vintage Triplex is Back on the Market: 21 E. Goethe in the Gold Coast
We last chattered about this 4-bedroom triplex in the vintage row house at 21 E. Goethe in the Gold Coast in March 2011.
See our prior chatter here.
If you recall, it has a unique layout that many of you thought back in 2011 would take a special buyer.
3 out of the 4 bedrooms appear to be on different floors, with the master on the second, one bedroom on the main and 2 in the lower level.
3 out of the 4 have ensuite bathrooms.
The kitchen and the dining room are also located in the lower level (with the living room on the main level.)
Not much of the vintage interior remains.
There are 2 wood burning fireplaces, however, including one in the master bedroom.
The kitchen has white cabinets, granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances.
The unit also has a sunroom overlooking the garden.
The condo has central air, in-unit washer/dryer and a rare 2 outdoor parking spaces (that one of you said in 2011 meant a $100,000 premium since parking is so hard to come by in this neighborhood.)
If you recall, this is also the Ogden school district.
It sold for $799,000 in July 2011 and is now listed at $919,000.
Will it get the $120,000 premium just 2 years later?
It’s also for rent for $5500 a month.
Suzanne Gignilliat at Coldwell Banker has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #B: 4 bedrooms, 4 baths, 3027 square feet (square footage was 2625 sq ft in 2011), 2 car outdoor parking included
- Sold in October 1991 for $244,000
- Sold in August 1993 for $277,000
- Sold in August 1995 for $252,000
- Sold in May 1997 for $285,000
- Sold in January 2006 for $535,000
- Was listed in March 2011 for $849,000
- Sold in July 2011 for $799,000
- Currently listed for $919,000
- OR you can rent it for $5500 a month
- Assessments still $744 a month (the association has 5 units)- includes water
- Taxes are now $13466 (they were $12663 in March 2011)
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the Unit
- 2 wood burning fireplaces
- Bedroom #1: 22×19 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 15×17 (main level)
- Bedroom #3: 10×19 (lower level)
- Bedroom #4: 15×17 (lower level)
- Living room: 23×15 (main level)
- Kitchen: 14×9 (lower level)
- Dining room: 15×13 (lower level)
- Sunroom: 15×5 (main level)
i always say look at the comps to justify a price…but unless they put some money into the place not sure how they expect to get 120k more in less then 2 years
Suzanne, would a floorplan kill you?
Where’s the other unit in this building?
“Where’s the other unit in this building?”
It’s *5* units. This one appears to have originally been/planned-to-be 2 units (it’s really unit ‘AB’ or ‘X’, depending where you look)
This is a financial high-wire act.
mortgage ~ $4100
taxes ~ $1,100
ass. fee ~ $740
Total ~ $6,000/month
For rent @ $5,500/month.
What will ascend faster: the asset’s value or the taxes & ass fee?
The seller needs to be aggressive and buyers ought to think in terms of the last price paid: 799. I don’t know what to think about the enabler Wells Fargo.
A mortgage payment of $4100 is too high based on the purchase amount and timeframe. Probably closer to $3300 depending on the down payment and the actual interest rate that they got, and a non-trivial portion of that is principal.
yep, even assuming 0% down and a 3.25 over 30y the interest is only $2,279
so assuming that the principal paid (and Down payment) will be returned at future sale then the best comparison calc of carrying costs should be;
mortgage ~ $2,279
taxes ~ $1,100
ass. fee ~ $740
personal reserve for breakage/repairs ~ $150
Total ~ $4,269/month
For rent @ $5,500/month
so buying is actually better if one doesnt need to be mobile and if the market really says the rent for this place can really be $5,500.
“A mortgage payment of $4100 is too high based on the purchase amount and timeframe. Probably closer to $3300 depending on the down payment and the actual interest rate that they got, and a non-trivial portion of that is principal.”
“0% down and a 3.25 over 30y the interest is only $2,279”
Who’s your lender giving a 100% ltv jumbo mortgage at 3.25?
Looks like they have pretty nice closet space. Plus they seem to have good taste. I think I see a couple Robert Graham shirts in that wardrobe so you know this guy is balling.
I made a mistake. JJJ is right. I misinterpreted the number I got from Coldwell Banker’s calculator.
A mortgage loan of $639,200 was filed 8/09/11. Thirty-year fixed-rate conventional loans from May-August 2011 were offered at ~ 4.50%, so if we add 50 bps for it being a Jumbo, a loan for 639k probably cost ~ 5%, which is $3,400/mo, not my erroneous $4,100/mo. So their cost of carry is ~ $5,300/month, not $6,000.
The whole transaction looks pretty good to me from the lender’s standpoint. Every month the mortgagor does not refinance is a gain to Wells Fargo or — if it was securitized — to whomever owns the mortgage bond, ideally, the Illinois State Teachers Pension Fund.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?id=MORTGAGE30US
Question for russ perhaps.
If you put 10% down and finance via a jumbo loan, you pay PMI until 20% DTI correct?
I know lots of people hate ARMs because there’s no certainty about what the rate will be in 20 years, but I cry out at the thought of anyone with putting 20% down in late 2011 and paying 5% on a mortgage. They’re paying at least fifty thousand dollars of extra interest in the first five years of a loan like that. 30 year fixed loans might be right for some people but not nearly as many who get them and end up moving out within the next 10 years and being in a worse position.
“I know lots of people hate ARMs because there’s no certainty about what the rate will be in 20 years”
Just have to be self-aware about what your expected horizon on living in the place is. Given the sales history of this place, regardless of the current owners’ beliefs when they bought, it wasn’t realisitc for them to think they’d stay more than 7 years.
Obviously, for a great many people, life interferes with plans and expectations, but this place simply doesn’t seem to be a 15+ year home for some reason, and having a realistic expectation that you’ll stay at least 10+ should be the touchstone for getting a 30-year fixie.
Sonies, it depends. PMI on jumbos is extortionary. I’ve never closed a jumbo with PMI as we typically can avoid it by using secondary financing. In addition, vast majority of jumbo lenders won’t go above 80% anyway. However, if you did have PMI, you could get it removed if the LTV is less than 80% at some point in the future.
Vast majority of first time buyers are better off with ARMs. The 7/1 and 10/1 ARMs are rocking right now. People really do over estimate how long they really are going to live in their places, especially condos. Statistically, most folks are better off with an ARM as something like 90% of mortgages turn over within 7 years either through a refinance or selling. But the 30 year does allow you to sleep better at night.
In this environment it is a tough call thought because the 30 year rates are so low. I’ve seen a few clients who are adamant they want to keep their places as rentals so they want the 30 year even though they know they won’t personally be in the property after maybe 5 years.
It just boils down to the individual trying to guesstimate what their actual time horizon and future plans may be with the property. There is no right or wrong answer. Just what works for each individual.
what kinds of rates are they offering these days on 10% piggybacks? I can’t seem to find anything, lets just assume very good credit/income
Lows 3s for a 7/1 Jumbo with 10% down. Conforming typically in mid to upper 2s right now.
Low 3’s including the piggyback? Holy crap…
anyone wanna buy a 2/2 in RN? Good investment!
that was only to try and give as close to apples and apples comparison on the monthly nut as the tenenat would only need a DP of a security deposit.
“anon (tfo) (April 24, 2013, 9:40 am)
“0% down and a 3.25 over 30y the interest is only $2,279?
Who’s your lender giving a 100% ltv jumbo mortgage at 3.25?”
that was only to try and give as close to apples and apples comparison on the monthly nut as the tenenat would only need a DP of a security deposit.
“anon (tfo) (April 24, 2013, 9:40 am)
“0% down and a 3.25 over 30y the interest is only $2,279?
Who’s your lender giving a 100% ltv jumbo mortgage at 3.25?”
This unit was just reduced to $899,000.
I also just noticed this description in the listing: “The Gold Coast is the second wealthiest urban area in the United States after the Upper East Side of New York City.”
Who are they marketing this to? The Chinese or the Russians? Because if you’re looking at properties in the Gold Coast, don’t you ALREADY know that it’s a wealthy neighborhood?