Who’s Buying All the New Construction in Lakeview? A 6-Flat at 1165 W. Eddy

1165 w eddy

This new construction 6-flat at 1165 W. Eddy in Lakeview just came on the market.

Last week, Crain’s discussed the teardown and new construction phenomena in Chicago. Over the last 5 years, Lakeview was the most popular neighborhood for teardowns in the city.

On the 3700 block of North Greenview Avenue, construction is under way on a house with five bedrooms, five baths and a rooftop deck. It will replace a humble two-bedroom, one-bath cottage that was there for 125 years before it was demolished last fall.

It’s a familiar transition in Lakeview. In the past five years, nearly 300 older residential buildings in the neighborhood have been torn down and replaced with new homes, according to data compiled by Chicago Cityscape, which tracks building-industry permits in the city.

Lakeview is the epicenter of teardowns in the city, with more than twice the number in the second-ranked neighborhood, North Center. There, 124 residential buildings were torn down to make way for new homes from 2011 through 2015.

But it’s not just single family homes that are being built, it’s also 3-flat and 6-flat buildings like this one at 1165 W. Eddy.

In 2011, we actually chattered about the 1893 2-bedroom Victorian house that was on one of the lots at 1167 W. Eddy.

1167 w eddy approved

You can see that chatter here.

In 2011, that house, which was on a standard city lot, sold for $493,000.

In 2016, it, and the lot next door, are now 6 luxury condominiums with these price points:

  • #1E: 4 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, duplex down, $899,900
  • #1W: 4 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, duplex down, $899,900contingent
  • #2E: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, $559,900contingent
  • #2W: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, $559,900
  • #3E: doesn’t appear to be on the market
  • #3W: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, $679,900

At least 2 of the 6 units are already under contract.

The units have Subzero and Wolf appliances, natural stone bathrooms and custom millwork.

Each unit has a large front balcony. The top floor units have private rooftop decks. Each unit comes with 1-car parking in the garage.

As was the case in 2011, this is still your view across the street:

1167 w eddy across the street approved

During the housing bust, we often discussed who it would be that would buy up all the 2/2 condos that were built in the boom that were listed at $400,000.

The $400,000 price point now seems quaint, even in Lakeview and Bucktown.

No 2/2s are being built new construction at that price. They are all “luxury” and priced over $500,000.

Who’s buying a 1450 square feet 2-bedroom in Lakeview near Wrigley Field for $679,900?

Has a new type of buyer emerged in Lakeview?

Has the era of 27-year old newlyweds buying their first condo while still going to Southport or Wrigleyville bars passed?

Brian Henderson at Jameson Sotheby’s has all the listings. You can see the interior pictures here.

Unit #3W: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1450 square feet, penthouse

  • New construction
  • Currently listed at $679,900 (includes 1-garage parking space)
  • Assessments of $125 a month (includes water, common insurance)
  • Taxes are “new”
  • Central Air
  • Washer/dryer in the unit
  • Bedroom #1: 15×12
  • Bedroom #2: 12×10
  • Private rooftop deck

 

114 Responses to “Who’s Buying All the New Construction in Lakeview? A 6-Flat at 1165 W. Eddy”

  1. It’s crazy; developers want insane money for shoe boxes that are essentially three rooms these days. All the “au courant” dull gray paint, white kitchens, painted millwork and SubZ, Wolf, etc. in the world still means you are living in a shoe box. The price differential asked for by these newer units with high end finishes is completely disproportionate to what the finishes cost the builders and these buildings will not hold their value well.

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  2. The unit looks nice with good finishes, but the location just isn’t for me. 1. I’m a Sox fan 2. The Cubs traffic for half the year, along with the Clark street bar spillover every weekend would drive me crazy. But for a mid to late 20’s Cub fan with a high salary looking to relive his college / bachelor days, I can see this working for him.

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  3. “Who’s buying a 1450 square feet 2-bedroom in Lakeview near Wrigley Field for $679,900?”

    Idiots – the same ones who will be complaining in 5-7 years (when they have their two brats) that they can’t sell their condos…..thank god for history – it keeps repeating itself. The developers are smart – they are taking advantage of these morons…

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  4. I highly doubt 27 year olds are buying 680k condos, I would guess people in the 35+ DINK range or possibly 50+ no kids folks, heck maybe even senior citizens are scooping these up? Doubtful but maybe

    Just glad I bought my new construction 2 years ago instead of today!

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  5. You can get a lot of house even in the North Shore for $600K :)

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  6. The developers aren’t running a charity program, they are running a business. Price is determined by what people are willing to pay; there are plenty of people willing to pay 650+ for a 2/2 to live in the southport corridor, considering that new construction SFH are generally $2.2 million or above in the neighborhood.

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  7. Most of the buyers are young married DINKs. Usually late 20s or early 30s. Both husband and wife are typically recent graduates of top MBA or law programs. Almost always work in consulting, PE, i-banking, brand management or BigLaw firms. Usually putting 20% down, although it isn’t uncommon some portion of that is a gift from parents.

    They will typically stay in the place three to five years before moving up to a single family. The move is always precipitated by children hence why there is a crib in nearly every resale condo listing.

    North Shore is usually the suburb of choice. Every now and then, they will stay in the city, but most don’t. Occasionally, a few move to western burbs. A decent number wind up relocating out of Chicago.

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  8. What Russ said.

    /thread

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  9. I kind of find these type of units boring. The finishes are nice enough, but the layout just doesn’t do anything for me. The not quite large enough great room with two bedrooms in back.

    I guess I just prefer vintage with a real dining room and more defined living spaces.

    Each to their own.

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  10. If you are old enough, you probably remember that Wendy’s commercial where the elderly woman is rocking in her chair and says “where’s the beef?”. To that, I say where is the data? If the people who are buying these 650K and over condos, townhouses, houses, etc. are financially well positioned then the housing market is on stable footing. If not, then we will see a repeat of the last housing bust.

    I tried researching what percentage down buyers are putting down and what percentage of their monthly net income goes to housing. I just couldn’t find any data points. Perhaps if anyone else can chime in with such data points it would be appreciated and we can have a whale of a discussion.

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  11. “If the people who are buying these 650K and over condos, townhouses, houses, etc. are financially well positioned then the housing market is on stable footing.”

    A few things are known:

    1. Basically no OARMs.
    2. Basically no NINJa loans.
    3. Zero down jumbos (100%, 90/10, 80/20, whatever) are hard to get.
    4. Can’t get a 3% down FHA loan for $650k in Chicago.

    That removes the bulk of the most troublesome situations from teh last time around.

    What’s still out there as a problem are:

    1. Income stability for duly qualified borrowers
    2. ARM resets (but there’s little near-term risk of those being jolting, *especially* in a recession)
    3. future re-sale market

    Each of those was pretty small potatoes last time around, except the *option* ARM resets.

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  12. Russ: I’m surprised to hear that most buyers of these sorts of units are putting 20 down. Don’t see why they wouldn’t do 10. Somebody please make the case to me: why wouldn’t you do a 5 or 7 year ARM with 10 down on this sort of housing?

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  13. Annony, real estate buyers are not rational. Most believe they must put 20% down and even when you show them they don’t have to and why a lower down payment might be better, they still prefer to put 20% down. You can do these purchases with 10% down and not much penalty in terms of rates.

    The 20% down is to protect the bank, not the borrower. Someone who actively manages their money, can most certainly get a higher return keeping their money over putting it into the house.

    Statistically, condo buyers are better off with ARMs as the mortgage almost always gets paid off through a refinance or a move prior to any adjustment. However, a lot of people have an irrational fear of ARMs because when the housing market imploded, all they kept hearing about where ARM adjustments.

    If I were buying a condo, I’d probably go with a 7/1 or 10/1 ARM. There are no right answers though. Everyone’s risk tolerance is different. Some people prefer to just not have to worry and choose a 30 year fixed. There is nothing wrong with that line of thinking.

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  14. Nice unit, but calling it a penthouse is really stretching it :)

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  15. Nimesh, the jumbo market has very little appetite for crap loans. In addition, Dodd-Frank, made it pretty impossible to make poorly underwritten loans with their QRM/QM rules.

    As anon(tfo) pointed out, most of the lax underwriting features are non-existent in the jumbo market. As such, anyone getting a jumbo mortgage is very qualified.

    No amount of underwriting due diligence though can protect against extreme drops in value or borrower income loss.

    I’d say current pricing is reflective of supply and demand of the actual primary residence market. There aren’t many investors / speculators buying these homes for a quick flip like during the bubble.

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  16. Don’t you have to pay PMI with less than 20% down? I don’t like the idea of giving the bank free money. I’m not a stock market expert and wouldn’t feel confident that I could make enough money on my cash to make up for the PMI I was paying.

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  17. plenty of bank are now offering no PMI 10% down mortgages to well qualified buyers.

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  18. Russ, what percent of the loans that you underwrite are bought by a GSE?

    (I presume you work at a nondepository mortgage lender. Is that right?)

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  19. Wojno, I’m at a non-depository lender. My book of business is probably 60% jumbo and 40% GSE right now.

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  20. When I was looking in 2011, I had to put 20% down to avoid paying PMI. My credit score is over 800. I still may have chosen to put the full 20% down to avoid the interest.

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  21. “The $400,000 price point now seems quaint, even in Lakeview and Bucktown….Has the era of 27-year old newlyweds buying their first condo while still going to Southport or Wrigleyville bars passed?”

    But you’re talking new construction and luxury here. There are still plenty of less expensive and older 2/2s available in Lake View. For instance the median price of LV 2/2s sold in the last 6 months is $385K. And guess what? As I flip through some of those I see plenty of people taking losses on those sales.

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  22. ” As I flip through some of those I see plenty of people taking losses on those sales.”

    That’s un-possible, Gary.

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  23. I hate the look of this type of building. There’s nothing charming or interesting about this style of building. It’s just so boring and plain. For the price of these places, I expect them to look better than the units built in Roosevelt Square.

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  24. @Russ

    “The not quite large enough great room with two bedrooms in back.
    I guess I just prefer vintage with a real dining room and more defined living spaces.
    Each to their own.”

    Are the bedrooms and baths smaller in the vintage style? I am just wondering what has to give if we presume the lots sizes stay the same.

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  25. I don’t understand the appeal of a place like this, especially at this price point. There just seems to be so little living space – you are either in the kitchen/dining room/living room area or a bedroom and that’s it. I live in a vintagey 2 bedroom place that has a sun room, living room and dining room, all distinct rooms, and it is almost half the price of this place. Yes, this place has some fancy appliances and other nice finishes and a rooftop deck from which I can keep tabs on the Taco Bell and Cubby Bear that are beyond the parking garage across the street, but I’m still going to come home from work most nights and be in one of 2 rooms. Paying $680K for that is just nuts to me.

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  26. “There are still plenty of less expensive and older 2/2s available in Lake View.”

    No there’s not. I just screened for 2/2s from $350,000 to $400,000 in Lakeview (with no cares about ANYTHING else.) So I don’t care if it has a/c, w/d, or parking.

    There were 35 units.

    Lakeview is one of the top 10 most dense neighborhoods in all of America. In 2005-2008 there were hundreds of these condos on the market all over the place. $400,000 was considered the upper bracket. And on this very blog, after the bust, we wondered, “who will be able to buy all of these $400,000 2/2s?” We asked whether people wouldn’t just skip the condo and move to the suburbs where at least you could get a house for that.

    Instead, as it turns out, they decided to RENT instead.

    Now, if I look at the $400,000 to $500,000 2/2 inventory, there are 60 properties available. Nearly double the amount under $400,000. That’s still an insanely low amount.

    But I stand by my statement: the $400,000 2/2 in Lakeview is quaint nowadays. They are NOT building it in new construction. You can get it in older construction without parking, on a busy road, or in one of the Sheridan conversion high rises. That’s about it. Even the middle unit in a 2005 3-flat is listing at $475,000 these days.

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  27. Also, by the way, nearly every property from $350,000 to $500,000 in Lakeview is under contract.

    It is SMOKING hot out there right now. There’s NO inventory so people are buying whatever is listed.

    If you have a property that has some kind of flaw and you’re thinking about selling, list now or forever hold your peace. Because if you can’t sell now, something is REALLY wrong with the property.

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  28. Chichow, it depends. Vintage units tend to have more distinct living areas . I had a 1500 sqft condo with a sunroom, huge living room, large formal dining room, eat-in kitchen, and two full baths. It felt much larger than a comparable sized McCondo where you just have the great room and the 2 bedrooms. The difference is that I had small closets and the bedrooms were a little smaller. However, the living areas just felt much more substantial.

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  29. New construction puts in massive closets and master bathrooms that eat up a ton of square footage.

    Also, the kitchens are always oversized, with huge islands.

    Vintage units have smaller kitchens and baths. There are no showers AND soaking tubs in vintage unit bathrooms (usually.) They just weren’t built like that. Also no walk-in master bedroom closets. So the living space feels larger (and sometimes is.)

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  30. “I just screened for 2/2s from $350,000 to $400,000 in Lakeview (with no cares about ANYTHING else.) So I don’t care if it has a/c, w/d, or parking.

    There were 35 units.

    Now, if I look at the $400,000 to $500,000 2/2 inventory, there are 60 properties available. Nearly double the amount under $400,000.”

    So you compare availability in a $50K price range to availability in a $100K price range you wonder why the availability in the $100K price range is twice as large?

    The fact remains that half the 2/2s sold in Lake View in the last 6 months were at or under $385K.

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  31. Don’t get me wrong. Condo inventory in Lake View is stupid low and times are short, though they’re still 50 – 80 days lately: http://lucidrealty.com/lakeview.php

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  32. chicago is a major city and lakeview in particular has many residents not from here. it’s a major hub and its not surprising that tens of thousands of the area’s elite salaried professionals all cram themselves into expensive luxury condos. dink income households usually have upper middle class parents too that help with college tuition, down payments, etc. the social circles I run in are not these types but I knew plenty of them throughout my lifetime. two BigLaw associates make a lot but work a lot. I knew a big law associate who once told me that they billed 300 hours one month preparing for a trial. that’s 10 hours a day for a month straight of challenging and stressful work. they probably earned themselves a $600k luxury condo in lakeview.

    I have no doubt that they can afford these condos but the issues will arise when the next round of layoffs start. big law attorneys, consultants and finance types lower on the totem pole are first to be cut and they often never find employment as high paying again.

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  33. “You can get a lot of house even in the North Shore for $600K :)”

    why anyone would move to Northie to live west of Green Bay road is beyond me. just move to northbrook or buffalo grove and admit defeat already.

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  34. “why anyone would move to Northie to live west of Green Bay road is beyond me. just move to northbrook or buffalo grove and admit defeat already.”

    To each its own.

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  35. SUCKERS is the perfect way to describe buyers of this new condo garbage. BTW; Gary is right…2/2 condo cinder block garbage from the 1990-2010 age/range still shows a good amount of inventory. These got pummeled in market value during Bush’s Great Recession just like s/f homes around Lakeview. They have barely recovered from what buyers paid during the 2005-2009 correction. The buyers of this new sht like Eddy will feel the same hit when they sell down the road. A major correction is coming soon to the hot overheated & overpriced markets like Lakeview, West Town, L.Park; and Wicker Bucker.

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  36. “I just screened for 2/2s from $350,000 to $400,000 in Lakeview

    There were 35 units.”

    Redfin sez 15.

    But there are 44 more listed for under $350k, with 2+ beds and 2+ baths.

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  37. ““why anyone would move to Northie to live west of Green Bay road is beyond me. just move to northbrook or buffalo grove and admit defeat already.”

    To each its own.”

    you’re absolutely right. When I lived in park ridge, people looked at me like I was crazy for living so close to the airport. Now that I live in wonderful long grove, people look at me like I’m crazy for wanting to live in a 90’s era home on a big lot in the middle of a congested suburban wasteland! but again, to each’s own.

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  38. “they billed 300 hours one month preparing for a trial. that’s 10 hours a day for a month”

    Probably more like 18 hours a day for half the month, and nothing much the other two weeks.

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  39. “Redfin sez 15.”

    I didn’t use Redfin. The screener I used lists those that are under contract already. Redfin does not.

    It’s even hotter than the screener I used.

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  40. that’s not the way it was explained to me in this instance but yes it probably does happen like that too.

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  41. If ONLY some of these folks would move to the North Shore, it is AWASH in listings with price drops every week! I work Loop to North Shore and stray west (but not too far from the lake, it’s hot without the lake breeze in the summer, and cccccold in the winter). If all the former DINKs, who are now DIKs (once the kids arrive…) would just sell their condos and move to the north shore we’d free up some inventory in Chicago Proper, and that would be a huge relief for a lot of folks.

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  42. Yeah Sara but who actually wants to live west of Green Bay Road? I’d stay in my cramped condo in the city too if my social status and life track destined me for west Wilmette

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  43. Just did a quickie search east of Green Bay from Wilmette to Lake Forest and came up with 252 homes priced under $1m. A couple of examples: 425 Provident in Winnetka a 4 bed 2.1 bath home priced at $679k in the Crow Island Elementary School District – 176 DOM. Or for the same price a renovated 3/2 at 442 Woodlawn in Glencoe – 53 DOM and counting. Both walking distance to the Metra and both New Trier HS. For $689k you can have a 4/3 with a Lake Forest address. Sure there’s carpet and linoleum to replace, but you get a yard, gardens, a screen porch and a 2 car garage. That one is 115 DOM and counting. I’m guessing that folks are debating whether to stay where they are in the City and have just one mini-me, wait to have #2 til they can afford $900-$1m and move to a farther-out City neighborhood, or just go for the American dream and head to the suburbs with lawns and commutes.

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  44. “If ONLY some of these folks would move to the North Shore, it is AWASH in listings with price drops every week! I work Loop to North Shore and stray west (but not too far from the lake, it’s hot without the lake breeze in the summer, and cccccold in the winter). If all the former DINKs, who are now DIKs (once the kids arrive…) would just sell their condos and move to the north shore we’d free up some inventory in Chicago Proper, and that would be a huge relief for a lot of folks.”

    That’s interesting you say that Sara because I’ve been hearing the same thing about the prestige western suburbs too. I know of a few people looking along the Burlington Northern line from Downers Grove to Hinsdale and there are PLENTY of starter homes. All within walking distance of the train and those little downtowns. Many have been sitting on the market for months.

    And these are “entry level” type houses. Sure, a some of them need a little work, but you’re moving there for the next 20 years and they are priced under what you’d pay for a 2/2 in Lakeview.

    I only wonder what will happen to suburban inventory in a couple of weeks when all the spring sellers start listing? Maybe the city dwellers are waiting for that and then they’ll buy in the burbs and that will free up some city inventory. We’ll see.

    I also wonder if we’re finally seeing the death/retirement of the baby boomers (and they’re moving to Florida/Arizona) in a lot of these suburbs and that is freeing up inventory too. It was always a question as to who would replace all those baby boomer home owners.

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  45. “that’s not the way it was explained to me in this instance”

    So, as opposed to a ‘normal’ month, this person (1) had to work both weekend days every week, and (2) got to bill all of the time s/he was in the office? Sounds like it was more about optics than necessity–you’re still talking about “only” 70 hours a week, and there are all sorts of people who do that *most* of the time.

    And don’t bring up ‘billables’ v ‘total work’–if it’s trial prep, half the firms just have everyone bill start to finish on those days, have meals brought in, etc. 10 hour days are not notable; 30 straight is–but I doubt that.

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  46. “425 Provident in Winnetka – 176 DOM.

    That’s a really good example–yeah, it clearly could use some refresh on paint, and I’d probably replace every light fixture, but that seems like a nice house at a reasonable for the community price.

    What’s wrong with it?

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  47. so your saying 300 billable hours a month is not impressive? as opposed to most professionals who bill 200 hours a month? coming from you and I who post here more than we actually work, I’m incapable of doing anything above 40 hours a week at this point in my life.

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  48. Suburban Empty Nesters are moving downtown!!!!

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  49. “so your saying 300 billable hours a month is not impressive?”

    I’m saying that, when one is in an environment where every minute ‘at work’ is billable, no it is not very impressive. There are tons of people who work 70 hours a week, doing something far more taxing that ‘trial prep’.

    Doing that every month? Yeah, that’s a bear. And the folks who end up going to trial, where the trial last for 10 months, and the whole damn time is basically that intense, *that* is something that takes years off your life. Even 2 weeks, with basically no time to sleep, is totally killer.

    But 30 days, with the work pretty evenly spread out? That just seems annoying. Not that it’s something I’m at all interested in doing.

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  50. The whole big firm hours thing is totally overhyped. It’s perpetuated by (1) those who wanted but didn’t land a 2L summer job, and the related first year job, at a big firm, and (2) law schools as a way to make excuses to/console the students who fit into group (1) (which is the vast majority of law students).

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  51. 2 responses
    Re north shore (and west suburbs) it feels like 2011-12 when there were so many properties to show buyers were paralyzed by choices. Your comment “what’s wrong with it” is Deja’s by all over again.

    Re associate hours I’m working with a Schiff Hardin associate now who is working 9-12 regularly and later when there are conference calls with Asian clients (she reports results back to the partner the next day). Not a myth if you’re on that track.

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  52. We just did a review of Lake Forest a few days ago and I was really surprised at how much the inventory is increasing. Look at the second graph. Lots of people are bailing.

    http://blog.lucidrealty.com/2016/01/20/lake-forest-real-estate-market-2015-review/

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  53. thanks Russ.

    btw, who buys your jumbos? Do you sell them individually to the highest bidder or do you get a warehouse line of credit from JPM or WF on condition that you’ll supply only them with mortgages?

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  54. Nice post Gary but I wish your data was more detailed. The average price might be skewed due to a house’s age, renovation, or dilapidation.

    I wish you’d select a random sample of house sales and tell us how prices are moving in relation to a house’s most recent sales price when compared against its prior trade value.

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  55. “I wish you’d select a random sample of house sales and tell us how prices are moving in relation to a house’s most recent sales price when compared against its prior trade value.”

    Yeah, average prices are not meant to reflect underlying price trends. I do believe they reflect the health of the neighborhood – e.g. teardowns and rehabs are taking place combined with underlying price appreciation would be reflected in a rising average price.

    To do what you suggest is a ton of work and it’s what Case Shiller does. It would be nice to have that data.

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  56. 425 Provident Ave

    11.5k a year in tax. Since it is Winnetka, is that New Trier?

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  57. 425 Provident is New Trier HS. 3 bedrooms on the 2nd level and a 4th on the 3rd level. Nice yard. It’s about 5 blocks from the Winnetka Metra Station, it’s west of Green Bay and north of Willow. EAST of Green Bay the least expensive option in Winnetka is a 5 bed 3/2 bath home at 465 Sunset. Renovate, move in as-is, or tear down – it’s not horrible, appears to be occupied by a family with children – but OPTIONS – you’ve got OPTIONS!

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  58. 425 Provident has a *ridiculous* asking price. The house is all of 1,560 sq feet with a partially finished basement. It’s also on a skinnier 45′ lot although it’s deep and boring. The asking price per sq foot is $435! in a town where the *median* is $369. This is not an above median house in a community of some of the metropolitan area’s wealthiest people.

    465 Sunset is a tear down with way too high of an asking price for a lot. Few people want to renovate a 2,400 sq foot house from top to bottom (including the sad, tired stucco exterior) that costs $725,000 at the onset, hence, it sits.

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  59. “The house is all of 1,560 sq feet ”

    How’d you calculate that? Looking at the floorplan, it’s over 1700 w/o counting the third floor at all.

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  60. “I’d stay in my cramped condo in the city too if my social status and life track destined me for west Wilmette”

    That’s a great quote HD, lol. How many people must be in that situation, the aging wife who “notices handbag brands”, the balding husband who notices car brands, all those country clubs around they’ll never get into. It’s sad actually. But everyone who lives in America needs to calm down and remember we’re in the best country on Earth.

    Wilmette attracts the GZ expats from outside of Chicago. It’s like the only suburb they’ll consider. Personally, I think they should consider West Winnetka and Hubbard Woods. The lots are 50′ wide x 180′ deep compared to 25′ x 125′ in the city. Those streets in Winnetka like Cherry, Oak, Provident etc. make great alternatives to GZ living, imho. Being west of Green Bay is not a bad thing. If you live in west Winnetka, you can get to the Edens on Willow Rd. in literally no time whatsoever. Freedom.

    Living east-of-Green Bay is more restrictive, but not as bad as being stuck in a streeterville type locked location. I think you need a $1.0 million house in the North Shore to do it right at a bare minimum. $25 Provident doesn’t cut it. $1.0 mil may seem like alot, but compared to Lake View and SoPo and Bucktown it’s not, and you have the schools.

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  61. I looked at the assessor’s Sq footage, and then I looked for any additions that would have increased the sq footage, and I did not. I wouldn’t call that attic space aka 3rd floor real usable living space, I can’t even tell if it’s got HVAC up there.

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  62. Are country clubs still a thing? i’ve heard nothing but bad news about country club finances, in fighting, aging facilities, rising dues with declining membership. The county club my firm’s partners frequented actually voted to be bought out by a national chain because they couldn’t cut it. Who in the world has time for country clubs any more? A co-worker of mine went to her parent’s country club for dinner last year out in a far NW burb and she, at age 55, was the youngest diner in the club. It’s all old people, none of whom are still conducting any business on the golf course anymore.

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  63. “I looked at the assessor’s Sq footage”

    That’s hokum.

    “I looked for any additions ”

    Obviously not very hard.

    I don’t think the house is great or anything, but it’s priced with the structure is worth well under $100/sf. Hence, “what’s wrong with it?”–and I assume the answer is “same as most of the other older houses in NT–the mechanicals are all out of date and the foundation leaks”

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  64. “Who in the world has time for country clubs any more?”

    good question… the only people my age I know that golf is one dude in commercial real estate (and I don’t think he even goes that often), the other guy inherited a bunch of money and doesn’t work at all so I think he golfs out of boredom

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  65. I didn’t look very hard for additions, but now that mention it, upon closer inspection, they bumped out the kitchen in the back for about 260 sq feet. Regardless, that’s still $377 per sq foot, which is still a lot.

    The assessor’s figures for SFH actually aren’t all that bad you just have to adjust for changes/additions over the years. Otherwise you get realtors who start counting outdoor patio space and the 48
    inch high crawlspace as livable sq footage.

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  66. “that’s still $377 per sq foot, which is still a lot.”

    But right on the median that you provided for the community.

    And that still counts the finished attic area at *zero* and the part-finished basement at *zero*.

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  67. “Who in the world has time for country clubs any more?”

    Really depends on if you golf, right? If you do I could see the appeal (well, if you could put up w the country club people, which I could not).

    If there were a good swim pool club we’d prob join. can someone here sponsor me into the cycle saddle club?

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  68. My dad golfs, but never joined a country club (couldn’t afford it, snobbish, etc). Besdies that, why would you want to play at the same golf course all the time? You’ve got to mix it up.

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  69. “Besdies that, why would you want to play at the same golf course all the time? You’ve got to mix it up.”

    my impression is that it can be tough to find good tee times on challenging courses. and you might spend a lot of time driving around. couple times I golfed w a friend, we’d end up spending maybe 1.5 plus hours driving aroudn in weekend traffic.

    compare to driving 10 min to the club, where all your stuff is stored and you have a ready tee time. and maybe every once in while go to a friend’s club for variety and on vacation.

    that said, I really couldn’t stand any of the country club people.

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  70. “compare to driving 10 min to the club, where all your stuff is stored and you have a ready tee time. and maybe every once in while go to a friend’s club for variety and on vacation.”

    Plus, as I understand it (notagolfer, at all), if you’re at a decent club, there should be some sort of reciprocal agreements, so you have some privileges at other courses. Maybe that’s not common here is Chicago–notagolfer.

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  71. It’s fun to know a course really well and know how it plays. It adds to the experience and shotmaking imho as opposed to blindly playing new courses all the time. Pros love to learn and play at Augusta over and over.

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  72. Raise your hand if you have been invited to a country club party because a member didn’t meet their yearly quota of spending.

    thats the only way the groove is allowed in the gate of any country club on purpose

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  73. “thats the only way the groove is allowed in the gate of any country club on purpose”

    were you dressed in “snappy casual”, which is how the dress code of my in laws’ club was described on teh web page for visitors (i.e. rift raft).

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  74. “dressed in “snappy casual””

    Does that mean clothes with a lot of snap closures? Pretty odd, on most adults.

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  75. Okay, I don’t have any way to relate this to anything in the thread, but this was too good to keep to myself (or the tens/hundreds thousands of other people who have seen):

    http://spectrum.ieee.org/img/eagle-drone-620-1454344153300.gif

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  76. Last one i went to was bryn mawr country club. didn’t golf just a dinner party, so dress wasn’t casual. but from what a gather of the member who “had” to host the party he usually dresses casual when he stops in for “mandatory” lunches.

    im not of the ilk that would pay hard earned cash for a CC. i even refuse to join the Moose either. given the groove would get a better ROI on the moose than any country club.

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  77. “Last one i went to was bryn mawr country club.”

    last time I went to bryn mawr breakfast club I had the pajun pancakes, which were excellent.

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  78. Every time I go to a country club someone always tells me “The kitchen is this way…” or someone as if I’m the valet.

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  79. here DZ here’s a much better angle :)

    http://i.imgur.com/zieb99P.gifv

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  80. Doctors still golf and belong to clubs. Think that it is mostly the established ones that are over 45 as the younger ones don’t have the $60-100K downstroke as easily these days.

    And the companies and sales reps that used to join clubs and pick up their tabs can’t do that any longer. AdvMed rules, Pharma industry “Self regulation” and the newer CMS Physician Sunshine Act all changed that game.

    I dont golf but was curious about the local CC. Heard that it was $65K down for a full and $15K down for a social. Socials can golf pre May 15th and post Sept 15th and once a month during the summer. That is enough for my game. Then there are the non stop dues. I guess that if they had a fitness center and indoor pool I could make a case for this as a family thing. Some fun events and a fairly decent dinner option.

    But they are stuck in golf mode and have not become a full amenity club. New FFC will open later this year with excellent facilities within a mile from the house. So that seals the CC deal.

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  81. This is the only country club my hubby goes to. http://autobahncc.com/

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  82. none of the times i graced the front steps of a country club was the member hosting the partae a doctor.

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  83. “Every time I go to a country club someone always tells me “The kitchen is this way…” or someone as if I’m the valet.”

    Were you dressed snappy casual? But yeah, one of my friends who is in lots of settings where he is the only af am says country clubs are the worst.

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  84. OMG oilc, that looks like heaven, what are the dues like?

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  85. “what are the dues like?”

    Country Club Member
    Initiation Fee $35,000
    Annual Dues $5,000
    Country Club & Corporate Memberships include Track & Facility Access, Member Racing Programs and Club Social Events. Upon joining the club, Members will receive a members pack including a Member Manual, an Embroidered Travel Bag, One Embroidered polo style shirt and an assortment of Autobahn stickers.

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  86. better start saving now cuz I know what I’m gonna get for my mid life crisis!

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  87. Anon’s right on fees, my husband loves it, right now he rents a space for his car but will be building out a condo which can house around 6 cars on lifts….. ugh.

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  88. I’m a golfer, and a club member, and under 40. I can tell by the tee time availability there are a lot of people still playing. It’s not about working harder or longer hours, it’s about thinking differently than the herd.

    And putting money towards sport and leisure rather than interests payments on debt.

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  89. “Country Club Member
    Initiation Fee $35,000”

    Founder Fee’s 10+ years ago was $75k, no annual dues.

    The track is only open 7-8 months a year, its not really a “country club” and really doesn’t even come close to the “feeling” of a golf country club. It’s a race track with some nice facilities, about as swanky as a Holiday Inn. LOL

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  90. “Anon’s right on fees, my husband loves it, right now he rents a space for his car but will be building out a condo which can house around 6 cars on lifts….. ugh.”

    Wow, with 1 in 7 Americans on food stamps you and your husband sound more irritating and annoying than Brad F or Trump could ever be,

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  91. And who the heck do you think pays for all those food stamps! And healthcare, and childcare, and housing, and prisons, and more food (obesity is endemic among the less well off).

    It’s a great thing there are some people out there able to carry so many others (and have money left over for fun). BC a lot of the bottom half of Americans are never going to create any productive output for their entire life.

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  92. The only clubs I like are bridge clubs and if you don’t like hanging out with old people you should avoid them. We constantly lose members due to them moving to the other dimension :)

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  93. “And who the heck do you think pays for all those food stamps!”

    Brad F,

    its the W2 working stiffs with HHI of 75k-250k that are funding all of that stuff. its not the folks in the earning bracket (or earning type) of your internet persona.

    “It’s a great thing there are some people out there able to carry so many others”

    Its a great thing that the folks who set up this economic structure after they stole the land from the natives, had the foresight to set it up so the folks in your internet persona income bracket didn’t just take it all but “forced” to give back as to bring up all within the community.

    Its the view like yours that has poisoned the nature of the true meaning of “invisible hand”. Your lack of understanding the symbiotic nature of community is the main reason you will always fall to the complaining of the “lower class leaches”. a mantra spewed by a certain economic class out of simple lack of empathy and basic understanding of how kids movie could explain the “circle of life”

    a shortened down and plain example is when a small/medium privately held biz has been squeezing every last drop to increase operating income. that would include wages and jobs that are slow to grow if not cut. that same owner of said biz is now on crib chatter complaining that his property value dropped, his ROI on outside investments have been below average if not stagnant, and that he is tired of paying for the lower class of people.
    Even a 14 year old in a high school level econ class can see hipocrisy(sp) in this person.

    Just remember that your internet persona’s income class are not the ones “paying for the food stamps” but you are the ones who caused more people to be on them.

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  94. “BC a lot of the bottom half of Americans are never going to create any productive output for their entire life.”

    Yes, yes, but a real rentier would figure out who to make lots of money off unproductive poors, like Wal-Mart opening at midnight on the first of the month, or Carlos Slim and his Obamaphones.

    Brad F., look in the mirror, you are the unproductive poor in this equation

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  95. I will say its really fucking annoying to have both my wife and I claim 0 and still wind up owing a considerable amount of taxes come april 15th… fuck you stupid shitheads that want to raise them more

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  96. “I will say its really fucking annoying to have both my wife and I claim 0 and still wind up owing a considerable amount of taxes come april 15th… f…. y… stupid s…heads that want to raise them more”

    Wow! talk about aiming for the rock but missing the whole mountain.

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  97. “I will say its really fucking annoying to have both my wife and I claim 0 and still wind up owing a considerable amount of taxes come april 15th”

    Is your annoyance bc you would rather have given the govt the money in advance and thereby forgo the vast returns you could have made from all the stocks bought and covered calls sold?

    Don’t you have an accountant, or a copy of turbotax? Hopefully you’re not at risk of underwitholding penalties.

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  98. “invisible hand” really? It’s the leftist-interventionist types that promote and wish to increase the number of public dependents. More dependents = more leftist power. It’s other people, the productive classes who pay for it all. Naturally one group tends to be more familiar with economic literacy and generating value (for themselves and others) and the other group is primarily literate taking (by force and otherwise) from said group.

    The high income earners (productive class) pay for everything in this country. You’d think the non-productive bottom half would show some appreciation. Heck they should even want to help the productive people be MORE productive so that they can take more of their money. But it is the exact opposite. The people without money want everyone to be just like them, to justify their ways. Imagine what the world would be like if everyone thought this way.

    But instead of showing some appreciation and kissing some ass (hello I just bought enough food to make you fatter and paid your rent for you! so you don’t even have to try to work), but instead they like to cause problems. And walk slow as possible across the middle of the street impeding the progress of my luxury car. What gives?

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  99. “And walk slow as possible across the middle of the street impeding the progress of my luxury car. What gives?”

    Brad F, is this you?

    http://jalopnik.com/insufferable-craigslist-guy-demands-to-know-who-took-a-1757163603

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  100. “Brad F, is this you?”

    I was going to post the same q.

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  101. Now that is really funny.
    But no, I always use one of my six toilets.

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  102. how can one be upset that someone shit on their piece of shit

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  103. “The high income earners (productive class) pay for everything in this country. ”

    As they should because they own nearly every damn thing of value in this country. Saying that the productive class ‘earned’ their money is like saying that the King should rule because of ‘divine right’. It’s a just another hollow justification for the wealthy to hoard all of the assets and keep it for themselves.

    now in a country where there was a thriving middle class, the the wealthy don’t own damn near everything of value, sure, it doesn’t make sense to make those relatively richer pay for those who are relatively poorer.

    But Brad, where a guy like you with a mere $3 millions – yes – a mere $3M, is still so far down the economic totem pole not to even register on the hockey stick graph of wealth distribution, you too should be clamoring for the billionaires who funnel their wealth through Bermuda, CH, and the isle of man, to pay their fair share, because you are most assuredly overpaying. The billionaire class who pays for jeb’s $100,000,000 presidential campaign views your mere $3,000,000 as a rounding error. The internet is full of stories of billionaires throwing parties that cost $3,000,000 for one night and you’re proud of three million? hahahaha, $3M isn’t wealthy, it’s nothing, and it’s probably all tied up in some retirement vehicle anyways. Where are your railroads, or your private jets, or your super yachts, or super freighters, or your % ownership in a fortune 500 company? You don’t have those, and you’re just a working class chump like the rest of us. comfortable maybe but really, you have so much more in common with the guy on food stamps than the billionaire in Davos who would confuse you for a waiter. Those are the people that need their wealth redistributed, by force of government arms if necessary.

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  104. “It’s the leftist-interventionist types that promote and wish to increase the number of public dependents”

    the key word is “wish”. but its the polar opposite of leftist-interventionist that have actually CREATED the increase of public dependents. and actually block any policies created to reduce the number of public dependents. there is a difference in “wish” and “reality”

    “The high income earners (productive class) pay for everything in this country”

    again wrong, and again the true “productive class” is the 65k-200k W2 earners.

    “But instead of showing some appreciation and kissing some ass”

    yes the wonderful internet persona of “let them eat cake”, classless at best and the equvilent of “he’s a french model, the internet told me”

    “hello I just bought enough food to make you fatter”

    and say you internet persona is 5% on point, you understand that the Fattness comes from your ideal “productive class” engineering products that resemble food and sell them at the lowest possible price point going for the quantity at low margins instead of good margins at lower quantity. That engineering of food “like” products at that low of price becomes a staple for the folks who live off your dollar. the worst is natural selection doesnt come into play because advances in medicine keep them alive for double the expectancy and medicine is EXPENSIVE because of your productive class and its lobbying and polices. but again the productive class is picking up the huge medical tab.

    so really for all your whining about things it really seems like you the productive class keeps shooting themselves in the foot?

    and how really “productive” is that when the byproduct is the hindrance of your own earnings?

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  105. The only thing that is productive is capital, which is used to entice productivity in the ‘working’ class. at some point below an amount slightly higher than minimum wage, the productivity of the ‘working’ class precipitously deteriorates as working strenuously with little pay and high external costs (gas, childcare, uniforms, health insurance, etc) becomes literally cost prohibitive and many individuals choose to leave the workforce entirely, and live off the dole, family or engage in criminality. paying a worker minimum wage to live on the beach and serve drinks at a hotel is one thing, but paying a worker minimum wage to work in a big box store is a deal not many workers will take unless their is a choice; and $1,200 a month in disability/welfare/social security is often a better a deal than $2,000 a month before taxes, gas, health insurance and child care. The dream of a comfortable life in a rich country and leisure time through technology has been stolen by the rentier class; and now those same workers who should be enjoying the fruits of society’s wealth and technological progress are instead serving burgers to each other or stocking shelves in their neighborhood walmart for $9.00 an hour instead. I know that Margaret Thatcher says that the problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money – but that was nearly 40 years ago, and a lot has changed since then, and the wealthy objectively have A LOT of money. I’m willing to take my chances to see how long we can make the system run on their capital incomes and wealth. As the saying goes, some billionaire’s 2nd yacht is your school system’s failing pension; and some sqazillionaire’s capital gains tax break is the potholes on your street. These are things that belong to you and have been wrongfully stolen. Don’t forget that Robin Hood wasn’t stealing from the rich to give to the poor because he was a socialist, he was merely returning to the poor what the rich had wrongfully stolen.

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  106. It’s a sad day in America when educated, marketable, and presumably intelligent people say something like “the only thing that is productive is capital.” That is not now, nor has it ever been true. In fact it is the least true today that it has ever been, with multi-generational lows in interests rates. What has an enormously high productivity is creative thought combined with common sense. The results available to people fitting that description are probably as high as they’ve ever been. I’ll have you know that I started with no capital, zero. But I’ve created millions in value, and millions more to follow, all before my mid-30’s. Was that because some rentier invested in me with capital, not in the slightest.

    What Thatcher said about socialism was true long ago and it will be true long into the future. Why on earth would it ever be not true. Spending other people’s money profligately is a party till the end (to everyone not having to pay the bills). Human nature, it doesn’t change in 40 years or 400.

    Leftist-interventionists desire ever increasing power, that’s human nature too. So naturally they wish for (and take action to effect) more dependents. Anti-business policies put more people out of work, on the public dole, voting left, etc. The poor people are pawns in the system. But their vote counts just as much as a middle class person’s. Keep them down, keep them dumb, dependent, and voting left.

    Blaming the food on the reason poor people are fat? Wow. Blame the alcohol for making a man a drunk too? Or blame the casino? Blame the rich who invent and manage important things. Oh heaven forbid someone do something really creative and useful, what a sinister thing to do!

    Food = other people should give me better choices
    Children = other people should educated them better
    Housing = other people need to stop driving up the cost
    Mortgages = other people gave me the loan
    Money, Healthcare, Retirement, etc, etc, its about about passing responsibility onto others. And is anyone to wonder why women complain on this board that men are common sense inept. The nanny-state has pussified so many people. That’s why immigrants not speaking a lick of english can land on shore and get rich. That’s proof that it is a state of mind. Having nothing to do with all of the myriad of external factors people wish to use to justify and absolve themselves of responsibility for their failures.

    I’ll be comfortable with my own personal earnings, thank you very much. You HD can be comfortable of your dreams of plundering the super-rich (and your debt payments owed thereto).

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  107. “It’s a sad day in America when educated…”

    Have you been working on this since Friday?

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  108. Brad, you miss the point entirely when you think your $3M is a lot of money. it’s not. it’s merely a drop in the bucket. 62 billionaires own as much of the wealth as half the world. They want you to think the way that they do so they can keep all their money for themselves. meanwhile, they own the casinos, the processed food companies, the purveyors of poison (alcohol/cigarettes/carbon companies), and everyone suffers from their vast hoards of wealth.

    Maybe someday you’ll realize you have more in common with the poor guy begging for a hamburger than the rentier in Davos. There are so many poor people precisely because they are rich. To deny that is to do their bidding.

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  109. http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/18/richest-62-billionaires-wealthy-half-world-population-combined

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  110. I find the discussion about income distribution, income inequality, etc. quite fascinating. Fascinating because whenever this topic comes up the divide goes into it’s familiar road map. Those who like the status quo and defend it and those that believe government intervention is necessary.

    Homedelete and Bernie Sanders have a good and a valid point. The economy is rigged. The diagnosis is correct but the prescription is not correct; that we need the government to intervene.

    I believe that the best path is for free markets to function. The problem is not the guiding hand of the invisible hand. The problem is that the invisible hand has been hijacked by moneyed interests. The crony capitalist is worse than the welfare cheat. Because the crony capitalist masquerades himself as a capitalist while damaging the system that has allowed us to live in a high level of prosperity.

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  111. There is something very detrimental about “crony capitalists” on that we can agree. But the important thing to understand is from where and from whom exactly do crony capitalists gain their power. What is the transmission mechanism to transfer public wealth into private wealth of the crony’s bank accounts, freezers, and mattresses?

    Leftist-interventionist government and its operatives! There’s how. The crony is wealthy and powerful not because he is chummy with honest successful businessmen or an entrepreneur building a great business. No, instead he is the crony / friend / accomplice of the politician with the authority and political cover to intervene and artificially manufacture winners and losers. Thereby the free market, naturally becomes a rigged market. And still there are some who wish to give more power and desire more intervention from the government. And what do you think would be the result of that? Benevolent dictators who care about poor people and their debt burdens! A Robin Hood type in office! Ha.

    The last Robin Hood who came through this town was buying a myriad of $40k Rolexes and priceless Michael Jackson paraphernalia. He cared a great deal about the poor, so they said.

    I paid for my Rolexes (three of them) in cash. He paid used money that wasn’t his. How lovely. And you people want more of that.

    I suggest you guys write to JJJR and beg to suck it. Because that’s the closest you’re going to get to wealth is by being chummy with a guy like that. HD maybe if you do the right favors for him he can help you with some of those tuition bills.

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  112. Wasn’t this last weeks conversation? shouldn’t we move on to a new topic?

    But need to add a few points then i am done;

    Brad F(u), I am not blaming the food I am pointing out the system is rigged to where the worst food is the most easily available and is the cheapest by a huge margin. correct it is still on the purchaser to make the decision.
    I will say that if i was faced with feeding 4 kids and myself with limited funds, i truly dont know if i would be able to make the correct choice either.

    Nimesh hit it head one, capitalism at its core is a beautiful thing. (Communism, on paper, sounded good at one point too). Just right now “the system” is rigged, it needs a master reset.

    sadly we could have had a natural master reset, but the gubment had to intervene. and the worst part now is the only way to get things back to a level playing field is to have more gubment intervention.

    Oh Brad F(u), the funny thing in all of your internet persona rich guy mantra of people using money that is not theirs. You do understand that the people how have obtained the most cash (way, way, way more than your photoshopped bank account) they have all used the same principle OPM. that stands for Other People’s Money. every single one of the has made their money off of OPM, why in the heck would you risk your own capital that low in the game?

    its when these folks have used OPM to get them to the point where they are, they then become the OPM (i.e. venture capitalist) and now use other peoples intellectual property and hard work to make them money.

    for a person who says the randomly obtained “millions” basic economic principles seem to have blown right past you. I wonder how much more you actually could have made if?

    well if “if” was a spliff we would all be blunted.

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  113. Well I can tell by your writing and logic (so screwed up and self-contradictory that it’s not worth the effort to analyze) you’d be the perfect guy to get really chummy with JJJR. He’s really good at using other people money, so maybe he can toss a few scraps to you if you’re good. Anyway, have fun being less well off even indebted, borrowing, and dreaming of plunder. I’ll continue doing things creative and smart and enjoying the fruits thereof. And I’ll share some with the poor too, because I can. What can poor and indebted share with each other? Past due bills, anti-rich mentality, worthless time, dreams of plunder. That’s going to do a lot of good.

    I’m surprised some of your libritards can do the math required to submit a post on here. As Rauner said liberals are bad at math and he is right.

    –Brad FU

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  114. “Well I can tell by your writing and logic”

    hence the reason i am not in the same income bracket as you. i dont have the smarts and waste my free time typing random incoherent thoughts on crib chatter. so i guess i am doomed to be a mindless non-creative desk jockey to cover my past due bills so i can live off Brad F’s money and rooty tooty fresh and fruits of his labor in the only republican neighborhood in chicago.

    Well you know what they say about people who mention rolex’s more than once as the only timepiece?

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