A Single Family Home for a Condo Price Returns: 1802 W. Diversey in Lakeview

Feb 1 • Lakeview • 319 Views • 127 Comments

We last chattered about this 2-bedroom single family home at 1802 W. Diversey in Lakeview in September 2009.

1802-w-diversey-_i-approved.jpg

See our prior chatter and pictures here.

It was withdrawn from the market but has returned and is now reduced another $14,000.

It is now priced $25,000 under the 2006 purchase price.

The house has 2 bedrooms and a loft and its own 1-car garage.

The kitchen has white cabinets, granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances.

The listing says it’s in the Burley School District.

Leigh Marcus at Keller Williams Lincoln Park now has the listing. See the pictures here.

1802 W. Diversey Unit #I: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1400 square feet, garage

  • Sold in September 1996 for $214,500
  • Sold in January 2000 for $295,000
  • Sold in August 2006 for $410,000
  • Was listed in September 2009 for $399,000
  • Reduced
  • Currently listed for $385,000
  • Assessments of $150 a month
  • Taxes of $6262
  • Central Air
  • Bedroom #1: 15×12
  • Bedroom #2: 11×11

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127 Responses to A Single Family Home for a Condo Price Returns: 1802 W. Diversey in Lakeview

  1. Wicker says:

    Cute place, well laid out in my opinion. But I’d personally rather live in a 2 bedroom condo closer to amenities (walking to El, nightlife) and pay a bit more. Others may not, and I can see this selling (it’s a SFH!)

  2. Dan says:

    The knock on this place is that it backs up to the EL. The units across the street (odd numbers) are the preferred location.

    360K.

  3. homedelete says:

    Sort of like California where homeprices doubled in 10 years. This house even looks like it belongs in Cali.

  4. Gary Lucido says:

    Pardon me for digressing here but I finally got around to addressing G’s issues with the Case Shiller index for SFHs vs. condos: http://blog.lucidrealty.com/2010/01/31/chicago-case-shiller-index-for-condominiums-vs-houses/

    While I admit the possibility that condos may fall further I don’t believe they are that far from where they “should be” given the long term trends.

  5. Bradford says:

    “Dan on February 1st, 2010 at 7:49 am
    The knock on this place is that it backs up to the EL.”

    Actually, worse.

    It’s the Metra, and it *flies* through there.

  6. G says:

    Gary, some believe in unicorns and the tooth fairy.

    The actual long term trend is stil to be determined. Trying to claim it now is misleading since the bubble is still deflating.

    A helpful broker would recommend that the overcorrection is the time to buy. But, you gotta eat. Do you expect “the bottom” to settle at your trendline?

  7. G says:

    Gary, my “issue” with the indices is how you herald ” the bottom is in” for the SFH index when you deal mostly with condo clients.

    I pointed out the new condo index bottom in Nov. It is going lower. It excludes new construction and as those resales start showing up the index will fall further.

  8. Dave M says:

    The key to finding the bottom is employment and the lending environment. Good article in the Wall St journal over the weekend about how big banks are being forced by Fannie and Freddie to repurchase loans that had faulty documentation (ie. lack of documentation of income, non-owner occupancy of a home that was underwritten for owner occupancy), which is causing lenders to be more stringent on lending guidelines. The exception was FHA loans.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704343104575033543886200942.html

    The employment market in Chicago is horrible. Wages are down significantly from the peak, 10-30% for most white collar workers, assuming they still have a job. Companies that laid off are in no hurry to re-hire, and when they do, they bring people in at 25% or more less pay than the previous person. Prices will not bottom until 2012 unless the white collar employment market improves significantly, and fast. Another phenomenon is fewer young grads getting help from mom and dad for down payments due to their shrinking retirement nest eggs, and also due to the negative real estate market news and lack of incentive to buy at this point.

  9. This place looks awfully suburban. Looks like it belongs out in Rolling Meadows or Plainfield or someplace.

    That said, it is a good deal for the money, for a SF home in a prime neighborhood.

  10. homedelete says:

    Not Rolling meadows or plainfield which are 1950′s tract ranches and frame stories, but san fran:

    http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Francisco/686-47th-Ave-94121/home/620772

    The price of this diversey unit has been californicated too.

  11. Sonies says:

    Oh this place with the liar sqfootage, at least that has been fixed heh, classic thread.

  12. Groove77 says:

    question i have is this a SF or a Town home?

    you have an association and fee’s to pay into, you cant paint your house without the ass approval, you cant do any additions, i wonder if you can even change the door without approval?

    Communism looks good on paper but in practice…….. :)

  13. Tom (tfo) says:

    “Sonies on February 1st, 2010 at 9:17 am
    Oh this place with the liar sqfootage, at least that has been fixed heh, classic thread.”

    -classic indead. It hit 130+ comments, it think that is a Chater record. For those that were part of that discussion. The original sqft was including the garage.

  14. Tom (tfo) says:

    “Dan on February 1st, 2010 at 7:49 am
    The knock on this place is that it backs up to the EL. The units across the street (odd numbers) are the preferred location. ”

    -let me clarrify, the addresses in this developement are 1800, 1802, 1806, & 1808 W Diversey. The street that they are on is Picardy(SP?) which is a private/vanity street. The actualyy address are on the north side of Diversey so they are all EVEN.
    1800 & 1802 back up to the tracks and face west. 1808 & 1806 face east and do not back up to the tracks.

  15. Gary Lucido says:

    G,

    I don’t see how it matters what I “mostly” deal with. I assume you don’t mostly deal in any real estate but it doesn’t prevent you from having an opinion on it. And I take issue with your implication that my need to eat influences my opinion on the market. You don’t know my financial situation and my clients would tell you that I don’t push real estate. Up until the middle of last year I was a bear on the market and am on record as such.

    And I agree with Dave M that employment is key. I provide that data as well and it’s not a pretty picture.

  16. JPS says:

    Is that a dryvit exterior? If so, fail. Too many hassles even if it was properly installed.

  17. homedelete says:

    Employment has as much to do with housing prices as household income.

    Households need sustainable mortgage payments so that even if they go unemployed for some time they can still make the monthly payment from unemployment compensation and savings.

    Unemployment rates in the past have been similar to today’s recession but the difference is foreclosures. You don’t hear stories about renters being evicted because of job losses, you hear stories of homeowners being foreclosed because of job losses.

  18. Tom (tfo) says:

    @JPS
    -why is the dryfit a FAIL. I have no experience with it but would like to know. What is your knowledge base on it: contractor, homeowner, installed yourself??

  19. Gary Lucido says:

    There have been class action lawsuits regarding Dryvit – regarding trapping water behind it.

  20. skeptic says:

    re: the Metra line, I think that would be less problematic than a CTA line near a stop. It’s not the sound of a train running that many find aggravating, it’s the screeching of the brakes as it approaches a stop/turns a curve. YMMV.

  21. Bradford says:

    Yes, all the homes in Picardy place are Dryvit, which partially accounts for their low pricing, in addition to proximity to the Metra line.

    Dryvit is a mega mold clusterfvck, and homes with Dryvit exteriors suffer from *big* discounts compared to identical masonry or siding-clad homes.

  22. Bradford says:

    ‘skeptic on February 1st, 2010 at 10:27 am
    re: the Metra line, I think that would be less problematic than a CTA line near a stop. It’s not the sound of a train running that many find aggravating, it’s the screeching of the brakes as it approaches a stop/turns a curve. YMMV.”

    I lived in a townhome in Landmark Village, the devlopment immediately to the West of Picardy Place where this subject property is located. I was in the easternmost bank of townhomes, which back up to the SFRs across the street from this property.

    When the Metra went by, it wasn’t so much hearing it as feeling it, and our townhome was masonry construction. We were also the “third line” of residences away from the train line, behind the two rows of Picardy Place SFRs.

    This subject property is literally right ON the train line. I’ll bet it shakes, rattles, and rolls when the Metra zooms by.

  23. netdsgnr says:

    Interesting that Mr. Greco no longer has the listing. Based on what I have read on CC that does not seem to happen very often. In the previous thread on this residence both he and a Dryvit “expert” maintained that this exterior was correctly installed, moisture-proof and under warranty.

  24. This looks like what is being built in outer suburbs of Chicago, St. Louis, and Milwaukee since the 1980s. Most of these far-flung burbs weren’t developed before 1970.

    Actually, it looks very 1985.

  25. Dave M says:

    I like the $10,000 off of the 2000 price.

    Who would want to buy this at $400K? Does the realtor think potential buyers are all idiots?

  26. Dave M says:

    I like $10,000 off of the 2000 price.

    Who would want to buy this at $400K? Does the realtor think potential buyers are all idiots?

  27. anon (tfo) says:

    “Not Rolling meadows or plainfield which are 1950’s tract ranches and frame stories, but san fran:”

    I’d rather pay twice as much for that EsEff shack–two blocks to teh beach and two blocks to the park. Sure, it’s a dump, but it beats teh hell out of this place.

  28. revassal says:

    I like this being in the city even if its suburban, b/c the type of an architectural style shouldn’t necessarily affect the location of such style. esp in this example. too bad about the train and drywall issues, I believe a home inspector commented on this stuff, as well.

  29. anon (tfo) says:

    Oh, and it’s in the Jahn attendance area, not Burley.

    Never (EVER EVER NEVER) believe a realtor about what attendance area a property is located in–even if the school is across the street. Trust, but verify, even with your buyer’s agent.

  30. anon (tfo) says:

    ps re the school:

    If you put 1802 W Diversey into the Locator, it spits out Burley, but if you look at the boundary map, it’s clearly Jahn. If you use a Picardy Place address (either even or odd)–Jahn. If you use 1804–Burley, 1806 or 1808–Jahn. So, if you were interested in this with a school-age kid, you’d want to nail that down with CPS before moving forward. And it shows that you can’t totally rely on the locator either.

  31. anon (tfo) says:

    “Pardon me for digressing here but I finally got around to addressing G’s issues with the Case Shiller index for SFHs vs. condos”

    Gary:

    You may have answered this before, but I don’t recall (can can’t find)–why’s the trendline (appear to) curve upward? Is it just a graphing/internet artifact, or is it intentional? If intentional, why?

  32. Wicker says:

    anon: I’m inferring from your posts that Burley would be preferred over Jahn?

    All I’ve learned about school rankings came via the site linked by RedFin – are there better (besides word of mouth) sites to read up on CPS quality?

  33. anon (tfo) says:

    “anon: I’m inferring from your posts that Burley would be preferred over Jahn?”

    Senitment seems to be that Burley is desirable. Haven’t heard similar things about Jahn, but it’s also not “bad”.

    Stuff is (unfortunately) scattered all over + word of mouth. Don’t know of a good, reliable single source.

  34. Groove77 says:

    Wicker

    there are few good sites out there, top of my head CPS Obsessed and district 299 (the latter ran by suntimes i think)

    but like anon said, word of mouth and personal experiences is where is get my info. I have a few CPS teacher friends, went through CPS myself, and been to a few social gathering where you run into a vice principal and pick their brain stuff like that.

  35. Gary Lucido says:

    “why’s the trendline (appear to) curve upward? Is it just a graphing/internet artifact, or is it intentional? If intentional, why?”

    It’s an exponential curve, which is what you use to capture growth rates. It compounds every year. It also fits pretty well.

    Regarding schools, you can go to webprod.isbe.net/ereportcard/publicsite/getSearchCriteria.aspx

  36. Bob says:

    “The key to finding the bottom is employment and the lending environment. ”

    I actually believe that its mostly employment (80+%) and lending is only ~20% and that the unemployment bottom will be a leading indicator.

    IE: when unemployment magically drops from 10% to 8%, I don’t expect that to magically stabilize or reverse RE losses for a time, because 8% unemployment is still quite high.

  37. Bob says:

    I should clarify that I think unemployment is the 80% driver of valuations _at this price point_. At the 250k one bedroom, one bath segment its absolutely lending (or the continued availability of easy FHA loans).

  38. G says:

    “I don’t see how it matters what I “mostly” deal with. I assume you don’t mostly deal in any real estate but it doesn’t prevent you from having an opinion on it. And I take issue with your implication that my need to eat influences my opinion on the market. ”

    Gary, I have seen you post “the bottom is in” many times in different places (not just CC) while directing people to your website. You did this based on the SFH index. You ignored the more applicable condo index. Why, I don’t know – but it did seem to support your anecdotes, didn’t it? Your “opinions” are not distinguishable from sales pitches when you are a salesperson. You can take issue all you want, that doesn’t negate my point.

  39. Sonies says:

    No wonder nobody in my hood has kids the high school is 3.5% white kids… lol wtf

  40. anon (tfo) says:

    “No wonder nobody in my hood has kids the high school is 3.5% white kids”

    Huh?

  41. DZ says:

    “All I’ve learned about school rankings came via the site linked by RedFin – are there better (besides word of mouth) sites to read up on CPS quality?”

    Agree with what Groove and anon (tfo) said on this. Talking to people is very good (you also have to find the right people b/c each person’s knowledge is generally focused on a particular area). Verify as much as possible with facts and statistics of course.

    Every so often I find myself suckered into paying for a NPN Parents subscription to read the message boards. They are not nearly as informative as you think they should be. I like http://cpsobsessed.com/ that Groove mentioned, but it is certainly not broad in coverage.

  42. Sonies says:

    ““No wonder nobody in my hood has kids the high school is 3.5% white kids”

    Huh?”

    I’m saying all the yuppie scum flee to the burbs as soon as Jr’s ready for High school… unless I figured out my school wrong

  43. anon (tfo) says:

    “I’m saying all the yuppie scum flee to the burbs as soon as Jr’s ready for High school… unless I figured out my school wrong”

    Huh, didn’t know Wells HS existed. If you have a HS aged kid and live in River North, you send said kid to private school or one of the SE HSs (payton or young or jones, most likely). I would bet that almost all of those 27 white kids at Wells live west of teh river.

  44. Sonies says:

    and how can there be such a huge difference from K-8 and HS in an extremely (except for cabrini) wealthy area? Not that I care one bit about schools since I don’t have any kids nor plan to but seriously, wtf? Top 25% k-8 to bottom 5% worst for HS?

    (for K-8)
    469 among 2205 ranked elementary schools.
    106 among 1386 ranked middle schools

    (for High school)
    This school’s Sun-Times rank is 629 among 656 ranked high schools.

  45. MrsB says:

    “Wicker on February 1st, 2010 at 11:45 am
    All I’ve learned about school rankings came via the site linked by RedFin – are there better (besides word of mouth) sites to read up on CPS quality?”

    In addition to the websites previously mentioned, I also check out schools on http://www.greatschools.com

  46. anon (tfo) says:

    “and how can there be such a huge difference from K-8 and HS in an extremely (except for cabrini) wealthy area?”

    Cabrini isn’t in either of the areas–Ogden is all east of the river and runs up to north ave (ie, the whole gold coast) while Wells (at Ashland & Augusta) stops at Chicago east of teh river, but runs all the way to Sacramento & Grand. North to Webster/Damen, south to Kinzie from the river to Western.

  47. Sonies says:

    I’m well East of the river so, ???

  48. anon (tfo) says:

    “I’m well East of the river so, ???”

    So, you’re building and your neighbors are rather ridiculously in a HS attendance area that extends halfway* to Oak Park.

    My point was that the applicable Elem area (for you, and river north in general) is very, very different from the HS area, overall.

    *slight exagerration

  49. Groove77 says:

    “In addition to the websites previously mentioned, I also check out schools on http://www.greatschools.com

    i will second that site too, its not “chicago focused” but can be another helpful input.

    Anon,
    “Huh, didn’t know Wells HS existed”
    It did exist (went there for a brief stint), but i thought its a ROTC academy now?
    and whats with its attendance boundary? does it really go that far east? I need to make a phone call on that right now.

  50. anon (tfo) says:

    “and whats with its attendance boundary? does it really go that far east? I need to make a phone call on that right now.”

    Goes to the Lake and North to Oak* and South to Monroe, east of Michigan (apparently to capture any families camping in Millenium Park).

    *Looked too fast first time; HS boundary does include much of Cabrini. Ogden, tho, does not.

  51. Sonies says:

    “My point was that the applicable Elem area (for you, and river north in general) is very, very different from the HS area, overall.”

    Yeah and dare I ask… WTF why? Not that it effects me personally but I’d be quite upset if I paid the taxes that I do and get stuck with a school 50% full of a bunch of losers from cabrini and humbolt park

  52. Gary Lucido says:

    G,

    The only reason I focused on the SFH index is because that was what was readily available to me. I don’t even recall having access to the condo indices prior to S&P recently redesigning their Web site. It’s not some great conspiracy to deceive the unsuspecting public as you seem to be implying.

  53. anon (tfo) says:

    “Yeah and dare I ask… WTF why? Not that it effects me personally but I’d be quite upset if I paid the taxes that I do and get stuck with a school 50% full of a bunch of losers from cabrini and humbolt park”

    How many HS aged kids in River North/SV? How many of them don’t go to Latin/Parker/other private or Payton/Young/Jones? I think it is a matter of RN/SV needing to be in an attendance area + trying to make the demographics of the attendance area less bad (and totally unrepresentative of the school’s parents’ demo).

    Gary: “I don’t even recall having access to the condo indices prior to S&P recently redesigning their Web site”

    Funny, b/c the redesign has made it so I can’t find the non-current numbers (are the historical numbers firewalled, or am I being dense?), where before they were available as a tab from the main index list.

  54. Groove77 says:

    “I’d be quite upset if I paid the taxes that I do and get stuck with a school 50% full of a bunch of losers from cabrini and humbolt park”

    doode thats craziness i would be pissed about that too. when i was there the school was a POS and gangs pretty much ran wild. (hence the reason for the brief stay).

  55. Sonies says:

    “How many HS aged kids in River North/SV?

    How many of them don’t go to Latin/Parker/other private or Payton/Young/Jones? ”

    10k+???,

    27 + homeschoolers + 3 dropouts???

    :)

  56. Wicker says:

    Yeah, obviously by my moniker I’m in that Wells HS area. Wow is that enlightening on the general makeup of my neighborhood. I’ve seen a decent amount of singles/yuppies (duh), but then strollers. Not a lot of high schoolers wandering around. And even so now I’d question that I’ll see them in 10 years if I’m still here if that is the only high school option, or paying up a bunch.

    That said looking at the k-8, looks like those are ‘on the rise’. Perhaps because the families are pushing reforms through? I could gamble on k-8 with my (unplanned, not around) children figuring the wife & I could help shore up learning at home but high school I’d need a strong school for the kid to have a shot.

  57. Gary Lucido says:

    “are the historical numbers firewalled, or am I being dense?”

    It’s towards the bottom and you have to register. That’s the other thing…it took me a while to realize you could click on those bullet points and then the registration process requires you to create a 27 digit hexadecimal number (I exaggerate but it’s annoying as hell).

  58. SquareD says:

    “All I’ve learned about school rankings came via the site linked by RedFin – are there better (besides word of mouth) sites to read up on CPS quality?”

    Pretty soon people might start saying to just consult cribhater on that one, the way it’s going.

    (Not to say I don’t appreciate the discussion, as it’s inextricably linked to the RE market. . . even in Sonies’ hood where).

    This place would suck no matter what district it’s in, though.

    Oh, and, Groove, I vote townhome, not SF, as well.

  59. anon (tfo) says:

    “10k+???,”

    Dude, you smoking something today?

    There were about 1700 15-19 yos in 60610 in 2000. And about 250 in the ’11. So 2000-ish. Some (meaningful) percentage of whom are either part-timers (with diverced parents) or attend boarding school or are actually 18/19 yo college students, not fully replaced in the headcount by 14 yo 9th graders.

    “27 + homeschoolers + 3 dropouts???”

    I think 20 of those 27 are WP/BT folks stuck at Wells. But you’re prob. really close.

  60. Bob says:

    “WTF why? Not that it effects me personally but I’d be quite upset if I paid the taxes that I do and get stuck with a school 50% full of a bunch of losers from cabrini and humbolt park”

    Well you do and will if you have a kid. Unless a sufficient number of gentrifiers such as yourself decide not to flee to the burbs or send their kiddos to private schools.

    The social engineer libtards are constantly trying to get your kids thrown in with those loser kids, as evidenced by the recent census tract boundary school lottery contraption.

    They are going to try to ensure equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity, by making sure your kids are thrown in with the losers and dragged down with them. They masquerade it as the loser kids being brought up by the proximity to high achieving kids but we all know its more likely the former scenario than latter.

    I never want my offspring mingling with paulj’s kids and their mind’s being warped. He has such failed ideas about society and the world at large he is laughable.

  61. DZ says:

    “Pretty soon people might start saying to just consult cribhater on that one, the way it’s going.”

    I meant to say above that some of the people and info here on CPS are among the best around.

    “That said looking at the k-8, looks like those are ‘on the rise’. Perhaps because the families are pushing reforms through? I could gamble on k-8 with my (unplanned, not around) children figuring the wife & I could help shore up learning at home but high school I’d need a strong school for the kid to have a shot.”

    I think it’s an interesting question what happens in the future re CPS high schools. My impression is there are an increasing number of improving K-8 schools and all those parents will start pushing for HS options. Maybe in areas with enough good neighborhood elementary schools there might even be a push to transform the neighborhood HS (I don’t really know anything about HS attendance boundaries to know if this is remotely plausible). Maybe more selective enrollment schools, the impact of which would also depend on how the diversity programs evolve.

  62. 312forever says:

    Wicker,
    ?PS also has a fair once a year (September – October) on magnet/gifted programs, I found it to be extremely useful.

  63. Sonies says:

    “Dude, you smoking something today?”

    I wish, how the hell am I supposed to know, don’t like 200k people live in the GC, SV and RN? only 2k teenagers is insanely low!

    Then again now that you mention it, i NEVER see any teenagers. (Which is a good thing as I am deathly afraid of roaming bands of teenagers, ok not really but they are annoying.)

  64. JPS says:

    What do you expect the realtor to say? If the dryvit is original from 1996, they hadn’t even figured out by then how to install EIFS (which was developed for commercial applications) over wood frame residential construction without trapping moisture — it was early 2000′s before materials and techniques were available to do EIFS over wood framing without it being a total disaster. And even after that, many installers didn’t do it correctly. This stuff should never have been used for residential construction in the Midwest.

    “In the previous thread on this residence both he and a Dryvit “expert” maintained that this exterior was correctly installed, moisture-proof and under warranty.”

  65. anon (tfo) says:

    “as evidenced by the recent census tract boundary school lottery contraption.”

    I think you misinterpret that one. I think the lottery contraption is supposed to*: (1) be not-race-based, (2) help the parents who give a sh!t (ie, those who might pitch a fit) get admission, (3) help MORE parents who have money/connections, (4) appear to not be influenced by clout, (5) provide socio-economic, if not racial/ethnic, diversity.

    The truly hard-core going-nowheres don’t have parents who can be bothered to apply. The magnet schools (while hardly an equivalent of Kenilworth, even at their best) DO manage to self-select out the kids with parents who just don’t care–who are the ones more likely to be a problem, than the merely below-average kids whose parents *care*.

    *NB: I don’t think it will work as intended.

  66. Bob says:

    I doubt it as currently students don’t always attend their neighborhood school. So even in pockets of gentrified areas CPS is going to try to shuttle students away from their neighborhood schools and bus in students from less gentrified areas. When you have a society that values diversity far and above achievement, which is the case with CPS, it makes it hard for schools or areas to make advances in achievement.

  67. Bob says:

    My post above was in response to this quote from DZ:

    “Maybe in areas with enough good neighborhood elementary schools there might even be a push to transform the neighborhood HS (I don’t really know anything about HS attendance boundaries to know if this is remotely plausible). Maybe more selective enrollment schools, the impact of which would also depend on how the diversity programs evolve.”

  68. anon (tfo) says:

    “I wish, how the hell am I supposed to know, don’t like 200k people live in the GC, SV and RN? only 2k teenagers is insanely low”

    I was excluding GC, focusing on Wells attendance area east of the river, which was (in 2000) basically the 60610 and 60611 zip codes (also part of 60601, but that’d need parsing by tract, which I’m not interested in).

    Total pop was less than 75,000. Then think about the housing stock–not a lot of family friendly options, but lots and lots (and lots and lots) of places that suit singles and child-free couples. So, the baseline kid population is going to be lower than “normal” (like in EsEff and Portland, OR, where the %age of children is WAY below average). And, even among those with kids, they are much more likely to seek alternative residence when the kids get to HS age, unless they’re going private or S-E HS.

    Plus, the people who can afford a family-sized place (even in 1990) also (most likely) have the resources to afford private school, or a second residence in a good school district.

  69. DZ says:

    “So even in pockets of gentrified areas CPS is going to try to shuttle students away from their neighborhood schools and bus in students from less gentrified areas.”

    I thought CPS lets parents apply for schools in other neighborhoods, subject to space, but doesn’t mandate any busing. At least at the elementary level. If neighborhood kids who are good students go to the neighborhood school, that pretty much crowds out other students, desirable or not. E.g., Bell or Blaine at the elementary level. It’s presumably much easier to “turn around” elementary schools, which are much smaller and more geographically focused, than high schools.

  70. anon (tfo) says:

    “So even in pockets of gentrified areas CPS is going to try to shuttle students away from their neighborhood schools and bus in students from less gentrified areas.”

    Dude, do you have a current example of this happening, or are you just stuck in Boston, circa 1975?

  71. DZ says:

    “I doubt it as currently students don’t always attend their neighborhood school.”

    I didn’t mean to leave this part of Bob’s quote out. As I said, I think the issue is whether you can turn around a school enough so that the good kids in the neighborhood will want to there. Has been done at elementary level, tougher I think at HS level. But there will be pressure from all the fancy parents in e.g. RV/LV/etc.

    I mentioned in prior posts that there’s potentially a revamp of one of the schools in Bucktown, using an IB program. There were also claims that they would try to put in an IB high schoool. No details at all on that, but I imagine CPS will generally try to do some of those things.

  72. Groove77 says:

    Square D,

    yep town home all the way, and i would rather take a townhome than this FAKE SFH on the tracks, on a FAKE street, in the FAKE west LP

    “Oh, and, Groove, I vote townhome, not SF, as well.”

  73. anon (tfo) says:

    “There were also claims that they would try to put in an IB high schoool.”

    That seems to be CPS’s “cheap and dirty” (my phrase) way of doing it. But you have to start with a HS that is genuinely safe (at least as safe as an average suburban school–that is, not entirely safe–see, eg, the ETHS/New Trier post-bb game beatdown, or any of a multitude of similar stuff–as there’s no such thing as a completely safe HS), which doesn’t describe many HSs.

    I think Lakeview has few enough current neighborhood students that it might be able to change.

    I also think that the introduction of an IB program has another purpose–it fills up empty space in a neighborhood school with “good” kids and makes it easier for neighborhood parents to control the neighborhood portion (as the school is easier to “fill” from the ‘hood).

  74. Linda says:

    On the subject of schools, can anyone suggest a good place to find information about preschools for hearing impaired?

    CPS web site directs me to call Specialized Services, but they won’t tell me which schools have that program. I know that Bell has deaf education, but I would like to research other options.

  75. Groove77 says:

    “I think Lakeview has few enough current neighborhood students that it might be able to change”

    thats one school i never understood why it did so bad. given most of the involved parents an kids i knew with involved parents fought tooth and nail for them to get in Lane.

  76. 312forever says:

    Linda,

    How old is the kid? if she/he is younger than 3 Early Interventions can assist you with the placement.
    You probably have those links already, but just in case:
    http://www.ecechicago.org/programs/ece/pre-k.html
    http://cps.edu/Schools/Preschools/Pages/Preschoolforall.aspx

  77. Groove77 says:

    “On the subject of schools, can anyone suggest a good place to find information about preschools for hearing impaired”

    i hope someone hear has some ideas for you,
    i sent a text to a friend thats a CPS teacher in hopes she could lead you in the right direction. (she is flaky she may not respond until friday)

  78. Linda says:

    “i sent a text to a friend thats a CPS teacher in hopes she could lead you in the right direction. (she is flaky she may not respond until friday)”

    Thank you!

  79. DZ says:

    “I also think that the introduction of an IB program has another purpose–it fills up empty space in a neighborhood school with “good” kids and makes it easier for neighborhood parents to control the neighborhood portion (as the school is easier to “fill” from the ‘hood).”

    That sounds right. I think the change and timeing also serve to create a focal point. Everyone knows that there is a “change” at a particular time whether or not they give a crap about IB. This allows for parents to persuade each other they are going to commit to the school. Also, by doing it on a rolling basis, although they are oddly starting with K-3 rather than just K in the first year at Pulaski, they effectively segregate the new kids from the old kids. In fact, at Pulaski the Bucktown parents wanted to have two separate schools, each with its own principal, while the IB program was being phased in. But they were unsuccessful on that.

  80. Barry says:

    “yep town home all the way, and i would rather take a townhome than this FAKE SFH on the tracks, on a FAKE street, in the FAKE west LP”

    Who is billing this as LP? Everyone knows the North side of Diversey is LV.

  81. Gary Lucido says:

    And west of the tracks is North Center.

  82. Groove77 says:

    “Who is billing this as LP? Everyone knows the North side of Diversey is LV”

    too lazy to double check but i think there was an argument last time about this being west LP :)

  83. G says:

    “It’s not some great conspiracy to deceive the unsuspecting public as you seem to be implying.”
    No conspiracy, just misleading.

    About that CS firewall, you can also get the CS data without registering at macro markets:
    http://www.macromarkets.com/csi_housing/sp_caseshiller.asp

  84. anon (tfo) says:

    “Who is billing this as LP? Everyone knows the North side of Diversey is LV.”

    West of the tracks, so it’s not Lakeview, it’s North Center.

    BUT, it is still in 60614, based on the Diversey address, as both sides of Diversey east of the river are in the ’14, which is “lincoln park”.

  85. anon (tfo) says:

    Thanks, G!

  86. anon (tfo) says:

    So, digging into the CS a little now that I can get to it again, (thx again, G), I think that the 80s LA bubble is interesting:

    From 1987 (first reported number), LA went from 59.43 in Jan-87 to 100.99 in Mar+Apr-90 a gain of 69.93% in 3+ years, or 18.22%/yr.

    It then dropped to 73.84 in Feb-96, a loss of 26.88% over 6 years, but a nominal gain of 24.25% over 9 years.

    However, CPI-based inflation of the 87 value of 59.43 was +38.12% in ’96, for a real loss of 10% (almost exactly).

    If our Chicago bubble follows the same path–our peak was 169.13 in Feb-07, surprisingly similar to the size of the LA-87-90-bubble (which I know wasn’t really all of it–LA re got hot before 87–but I need to work with the info available)–a 10% real dollar loss would seem to be a reasonable guess of a possible CS bottom (obviously with most individual properties doing better or worse).

    At present, the CPI-based inflation of the Jan-00 CS-index value (thru 09) would be 124.59 (everywhere, obviously). 10% real dollar loss would be 112.13, possibly creeping up a bit over the next couple years. 112.09 is nominal CS for May-01. I think that would be my best guess for an approximate Chicago market bottom, barring the employment situation staying semi-permanently ugly (ugly like it is today) and/or the state/county/city finances turning *more* Californian than they are today.

  87. Barry says:

    “BUT, it is still in 60614, based on the Diversey address, as both sides of Diversey east of the river are in the ‘14, which is “lincoln park”.”

    60614 has no basis in reality when it comes to what is Lincoln Park (Community Area 7). 60614 goes all the way to Armitage/Damen!

  88. Dan says:

    27th ward alderman Walter Burnett attended Wells HS.

  89. DZ says:

    Random CPS question crossed my mind on my commute this morning. If your kid is in a neighborhood school and you move to somewhere else in the city, can your kid still go to the old neighborhood school? Not assuming any funny business, suppose you were legitimately living in the first place for a year or two and then move.

  90. anon (tfo) says:

    “If your kid is in a neighborhood school and you move to somewhere else in the city, can your kid still go to the old neighborhood school? Not assuming any funny business, suppose you were legitimately living in the first place for a year or two and then move.”

    AFAIK, nope. But if you get into a magnet or gifted program based in any part on proximity, you can stay. Again, afaik.

  91. anon (tfo) says:

    “60614 has no basis in reality when it comes to what is Lincoln Park (Community Area 7). 60614 goes all the way to Armitage/Damen!”

    Yeah, and the ’14 excludes the public housing west of Damen and south of Diversey (which is logan sq, by zip, by LP by community area). But that *is* the basis for someone calling this location “Lincoln Park”.

  92. G says:

    “27th ward alderman Walter Burnett attended Wells HS.”

    That’s no endorsement considering his armed robbery conviction as a teenager.

  93. Groove77 says:

    “That’s no endorsement considering his armed robbery conviction as a teenager.”

    G, bro people can turn their shyt around. (i am proof) being a stupid teenager is no excuse but should be take with a little sugar putting it in perspective.

  94. skeptic says:

    old news to many I’m sure, but as Lake View youth had a good laugh when they chose Lake View High School as the setting for My Bodyguard. It’s worth re-watching for history buffs.

  95. CH says:

    that is a good movie to see for early 80′s chicago watching. also good is Cooley High from 1975

  96. Groove77 says:

    CH,
    you are forgetting about “adventures in babysitting”

  97. roma says:

    DZ,

    Not likely what you’re asking about, but CPS policy is that if a student is in 7th grade, 8th grade or in high school, and moves, they are permitted to remain in their school until graduation.

    A student is always allowed to remain in their home school to at least finish the year, even after a move.

    More generally, since the official policy is to maintain education continuity and minimize disruption, there is the possibility of a student remaining at their enrolled school after a move (but I don’t know how often these types of appeals are successful).

    >

  98. CH says:

    adventures in baby sitting.. all I can recall from that is the stone container building, but it’s been forever and I think i saw it soon after it came out on video.

  99. Groove77 says:

    CH,

    Didnt have a blues club (dont know which one) and the factories on fulton? its been a long while since i saw that one

    what about “wild cats” they used lane tech in the 80′s

  100. G says:

    “G, bro people can turn their shyt around. (i am proof) being a stupid teenager is no excuse but should be take with a little sugar putting it in perspective.”

    I agree. It was a comment about the school since Wally turned it around after leaving Wells. Same for you, right?

  101. CH says:

    wild cats had a nice cameo by ll cool j.

    my best friends wedding has a shot on the river of smith and wolleys either being built, or just a hole.

    I’m still trying to figure out where elwood blues hotel room was next to the el. pretty sure it’s about where Boni Vino is now on van buren but the owner says he’s been there since the 70s

  102. anon (tfo) says:

    “I’m still trying to figure out where elwood blues hotel room was next to the el.”

    I find a claim that it was 22 W Van Buren, which is now Pritkzer Park, but I think most of it was done on a soundstage.

  103. Barry says:

    “Elwood’s apartment is in a building on the south side of Van Buren Street in the Loop just east of the LaSalle/Van Buren station. The building may still be there. That block escaped a lot of the tear-downs that went on around it (when they built the jail on Van Buren & Dearborn, expanded the federal buildings north of Van Buren, et cetera).”

    TMYK

  104. Groove77 says:

    G,

    The only thing that turned around while i was there was ME. I turned around after two months and walked out the front door.
    “It was a comment about the school since Wally turned it around after leaving Wells. Same for you, right?”

    CH,

    Dooode the blues brothers movie was shot all over the place… In park ridge, Ford city mall or Golf mill mall forgot which, chase seen down where the target is on roosevelt, their car drive on the lawn of a funeral home on devon and talcott

  105. anon (tfo) says:

    “Carrie Fisher blew up the best neighborhood deli, the Dill Pickle (her targets were Jake and Elwood Blues in the flop-house upstairs) in the Blues Brothers. Sadly the Dill Pickle is now gone, replaced by a park named after a wealthy Chicago family, Pritzker Park is gated off from the street and is home to bums and pigeons.”

    and

    “This is the scene in which they’ve just arrived in front of the “hotel”, and the “mystery woman” is parked out front. Ever wonder about some of the addresses of those businesses around the “hotel” that are shown in the movie? (By the way, I didn’t notice any of this until my friend pointed it out to me). First, since the Dill Pickle Deli Pub’s address was 24 W. Van Buren, and Saxony Shoes was right next to the Pub , that meant that Saxony Shoes’ address would have been 22 W. Van Buren, and “Plymouth Hotel”(‘s) address would have been 20 W. Van Buren, since there is clearly no address shown on the front of the “hotel”, or Saxony Shoes. Since this would be considered the even numbered side of the street, anything where the “mystery woman” was parked would have been the odd numbered side. (That’s the way Chicago streets are numbered here).

    Well, I decided to check this out today at the library, and I looked up these addresses in a 1976 phone directory, and found Dill Pickle Deli Sandwich Shop located at 26 W. Van Buren, not 24 W. Van Buren, like the movie shows. The Swesnik Loan Co. at 18 W. Van Buren was correct in the movie, the address for Saxony Shoe Store was actually 24 W. Van Buren. However, there was absolutely no listing for the “Plymouth Hotel” in the directory. I happened to look in a couple more directories, 1974 and 1977, same addresses, and no “Plymouth Hotel”.”

    TMYK.

  106. CH says:

    thanks all. I had seen Barry’s quote and that is why I thought it was boni vino.

    the pritzker park makes sense given what Mr Boni Vino told me. I have little recollection of what was there (pritzker) in 1980. though i do know in the mid 80′s on the state street side there was a store that sold throwing stars and butterfly knives to junior high kids. tmyk

    most of the gritty old loop is gone. the (west side ) block of clark s of vb is a throwback. and there are some stretches of n wells around lake that are reminiscent as well.

  107. roma says:

    One more thing about desirable neighborhood schools, that many may not know. You are generally guaranteed an enrollment spot in a school if you go to tuition-based preschool there. While this is paid (and not at all cheap), if there are spots this is another way to “gain entrance” into the school. Even if you’re outside the area (and you can apply to paid Pre-K even from outside), as long as you don’t move you can generally stay at the school until graduation.

  108. anon (tfo) says:

    “Even if you’re outside the area (and you can apply to paid Pre-K even from outside), as long as you don’t move you can generally stay at the school until graduation.”

    Or if you only move a little and are on good terms with the principal. I know a family who has done this.

  109. roma says:

    Yes, being on good terms with the principal can work magic in a lot of ways, since they have legit, semi-legit, and non-legit methods of getting you in! In the latter case, though, remember that principals have term contracts and can be removed by their LSC and (sometimes) CPS…

  110. Groove77 says:

    Linda,

    I didnt forget about you, but apparently my friend forgot about me :( i even emailed her. (i wonder if it went to her junk mail)

    Next “get together” we go to my wife has a friend thats a teacher who’s boyfriend is a vice principal i think, i will ask them.

  111. Linda says:

    No problem Groove77, I will wait.

    Thanks again for doing this.

  112. Groove77 says:

    Linda,

    My i got a hold for a run in acquaintance that is a “NEW” teacher (new=teacher only for a year or two). So i dont know who much weight it holds.

    but she said look into Schneider over by belmont and damen, They have a special ED class and she said, the teacher there is “born” to teach special needs kids.

  113. Barry says:

    Plus you’re right next to Tony’s Burrito Mex, which is the greatest burrito joint around!

  114. Linda says:

    “but she said look into Schneider over by belmont and damen, They have a special ED class and she said, the teacher there is “born” to teach special needs kids.”

    Thank you, I will definitely look it up. At this age, having a good and understanding teacher is very important.

  115. Groove77 says:

    Hey Linda,

    i finally spoke to my friend she put a strong recommendation for Bell not only for the Hearing impaired program but for academics also. she said CPS will provide equipment and resources if you choose to go somewhere else.
    However, it is best to go to a school with teachers that specialize in working with students with hearing impairments.

    she gave this web site for futher help;
    http://www.oism.cps.k12.il.us/dept_oss.shtml

  116. anon (tfo) says:

    “Schneider over by belmont and damen”

    High school in the same building. Student population is predominately residents of Lathrop Homes. Wouldn’t be my first choice, notwithstanding any specific benefits.

  117. Groove77 says:

    Linda,

    If i run into other people that are teachers i will hit them up for recommendations for ya.

  118. Linda says:

    “i finally spoke to my friend she put a strong recommendation for Bell not only for the Hearing impaired program but for academics also.”

    Groove77,

    I know that Bell is a very good school, but their hearing impaired program emphacises the use of sign language. My son isn’t completely deaf and wears hearing aids, so I would like to either get him into a special education program, or to find a school that teaches hearing impaired kids to listen and speak normally, rather then sign. I was even told that there are 4 such schools in the city, but their names and locations seem to be a big secret. Strange.

  119. tomaso says:

    If I was a parent I’d be looking at school financing. Illinois budgetary woes will soon be felt throughout its school districts as promised funding is not delivered. Special ed programs may be at risk as tough decisions are made in leaner years.

    “I know that Bell is a very good school, but their hearing impaired program emphacises the use of sign language. My son isn’t completely deaf and wears hearing aids, so I would like to either get him into a special education program, or to find a school that teaches hearing impaired kids to listen and speak normally, rather then sign. I was even told that there are 4 such schools in the city, but their names and locations seem to be a big secret. Strange.”

  120. Groove77 says:

    “I was even told that there are 4 such schools in the city, but their names and locations seem to be a big secret. Strange.”

    I will continue asking around, party season doesnt officially kick in gear until people break out the grill for first bbq of the year. That’s when we come across our chicago police and teacher “acquaintances” at summer bbq’s.

    My wife is still trying to find our six degree separation from the vice principle that we met, it turns out we were both wrong it wasnt her friends boyfriend it was somebody’s boyfriend at the party.

    BTW you would think that with all this technology we have (email, phone, text, twitter, facebook, ichat, match.com) that it would make it easier to get in contact with people turns out it makes us further disconnected from each other.

  121. Linda says:

    “BTW you would think that with all this technology we have (email, phone, text, twitter, facebook, ichat, match.com) that it would make it easier to get in contact with people turns out it makes us further disconnected from each other.”

    Yeah, that’s for sure. Technology keeps invading all aspects of life, but there should be a limit on how far it is allowed to go.

    Thank you so much.

  122. Groove77 says:

    “Yeah, that’s for sure. Technology keeps invading all aspects of life, but there should be a limit on how far it is allowed to go.”

    dont get me started on that, i bought one of those super phones and the thing does everything just not easily :)

  123. Bob says:

    “Yeah, that’s for sure. Technology keeps invading all aspects of life, but there should be a limit on how far it is allowed to go.”

    I’m one of the last holdouts without a smartphone it seems and my phone is not 3G. I could easily afford either but this is on purpose–I see how adults act with their Crackberries and its sad and

    I also really think people are silly getting worked up about mobile broadband. I can check my email on my phone and do basic surfing at 2G modem speeds if need be and am very content with that.

    If you want to watch streaming video on your phone, IMO, you’re just sad and have lost track of whats important.

  124. anon (tfo) says:

    “If you want to watch streaming video on your phone, IMO, you’re just sad and have lost track of whats important.”

    Dollar beers at a bar with no hipsters?

  125. Groove77 says:

    “If you want to watch streaming video on your phone, IMO, you’re just sad and have lost track of whats important.”

    Bob, its not that sad. I watch episodes of Top gear one youtube on my phone in bed before i pass out for the night :)

  126. Bob says:

    1802 Diversey Unit F, MLS 07690336

    “Great Short Sale Opportunity!” for 324k for Unit F. It is an ugly shade of pink vs. this unit’s more neutral colors so not sure what impact that would have. Pretty sure the paint job to fix the colors is less than 60k.

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