The Million Dollar Southport Brownstone: 3847 N. Janssen
This 4-bedroom brownstone at 3847 N. Janssen in the Southport neighborhood of Lakeview has been on the market since May 2009.
It is now listed for $126,000 under the 2006 purchase price.
Built in 1907, the house was renovated in 2005.
The kitchen has a large island and upgraded stainless steel appliances alongside new cabinets. It has the open concept which is connected to the great room.
The bathrooms have all been upgraded to natural stone.
There is a large family room and one bedroom on the lower level but all three other bedrooms are on the second level.
The house also has two car parking and central air.
For the space and location in the neighborhood, is this house now priced to sell?
Jennifer South at Dreamtown Realty has the listing. See the pictures here.
3847 N. Janssen: 4 bedrooms, 3.5 baths, 2 car garage
- Sold in July 1997 for $300,000
- Sold in September 2004 for $600,000
- Sold in June 2006 for $1.225 million
- Originally listed in May 2009 for $1,349,900
- Reduced several times
- Currently listed for $1,099,000
- Taxes of $13,282
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 15×13
- Bedroom #2: 11×11
- Bedroom #3: 20×12
- Bedroom #4: 12×8 – lower level
Very nice home. I like how these people, for the most part, did not ruin the house by putting gaudy wall paper, paint combinations, old antique furniture, etc. throughout the house just so they could say it was decorated. I say “for the most part”, because that tile by the door is hideous. But then again, I’m a guy, so I have no clue whether something looks good or not. All in all, its a nice home. It will be interesting to see if it sells at this price.
Brick two-flat abutting Chicago alley, one block south of Irving Park, is not a million dollar house. Decent (not outstanding)renovation effort, but Chicago can only sustain a certain number of million+ houses, and this is not one of the chosen few. I think $800,000, if seller is lucky, because the real estate market just isn’t what it was in 2006.
Aw man, they took away all the charm on the inside…
The exterior is so BLAH for $1M+.
There’s absolutely no yard, just a deck above the garage. Also, are we sure that’s genuine brownstone and not yellow brick? Brownstone is pretty rare in Chicago.
I think Architect hit the nail on the head. It’s a nice enough looking place (although could use some more pictures) but misses out on enough fronts to not be worth the ask to me. Of course, I don’t really know much about this bracket, but if I had a million bucks to spend, this would not be high on my list.
It’s in Blaine school district. The short lot and alley is a bit of a downer.
I’m with Architect on this one.
While the renovation seems decent enough, why did they open the kitchen? It makes the place look like a much smaller condo in a 3-flat, not a single family home.
I live in the neighborhood. It shouldn’t go for over $900K based on the interior and exterior. I do think it will sell for more than $800K. They need to make it quite a bit nicer to crack the $1M barrier. New construction south of Addison is listed in the $1.4M range and is not selling and has been on the market a long time. This is farther north, too.
I’m going to discount it another $80,000 if it’s not a brownstone. $820K is my prediction on what it would sell at. I doubt the owners will sell it at this thought and will just sit on it for 2-3 years, hoping prices will rebound. Best of luck with that one.
There are at least two separate (and related) questions on pricing that I like to keep in mind. One is how this is priced relative to the asking prices of other properties. Second is how the asking price compares to what they will get for it. The second question depends in part on the answer to the first but also, importantly, on the big questions we debate endlessly on the market.
I’m very interested in the second question but the first is easier to debate with facts and is specific to the property in question. (I have some sympathy for the position that the first question is meaningless without the second. But then all we’re going to do is debate the state of the market ad nauseum.)
So on the first question, I’m not sure that the list is that out of whack with other properties that are in a very good school district, renovated etc. The big knock to me is the short lot, and I’m not sure how much to take off for that.
I like the open kitchen.
ps: owners’ new house was purchased for $2.1mm. On July 21, 2009.
“see 3847janssen.com but still no pix of the basement, other than a bathroom.”
Ahh, thanks. It looks nice if a tad generic, which is good and bad. I know that $1m is just a number, but when I see something is $1m, I really expect something more than just a nice but largely run-of-the-mill two flat. Which is probably a bit irrational, but a place like this just sort of demonstrates to me how wildly irrational the housing market truly is. I’m not hating or saying this is out of line with comps or won’t sell close to ask or blah blah, but I remember a comment in another thread where someone said something along the lines of “people have forgotten the value of a million bucks”.
I walked through this place when they an open house a few months ago. This will definitely sell in the $900’s given the brick structure (not brownstone at all), proximity to Blaine and Southport, and general nice job with the conversion. The biggest downside is the lot and the only true outdoor space is over the garage that overlooks an adjacent large coach house and garage. A coat of neutral color paint throughout the house would help dramatically with showings. This weekend, I walked through 3712 N Bosworth listed at $965K. This house is a few blocks away on a standard lot. It has better outdoor space and more character than the subject house, but the layout just didn’t make a ton of sense at 3712 Bosworth. Assuming these two are direct competitors, 3847 Janssen should sell first, assuming they’re willing to move on price. I have to imagine that a new $2.1MM house helps create some incentive to deal.
nice place if you have kids. where did they move to?
this made me laugh “brand new state-of-the art Jewel “!
way too generic to break a million. The master bathroom is very bland and screams home depot. Guessing high 800s for this.
300k in 97 seems low. i know sopo hadnt been coined then but this was still a nicer hood. smokin woodys was still there as well.
That is NOT a brownstone!
That is a YELLOW Brick house
I visited a home in sopo of an interet millionaire in the late 90’s, maybe 96 or 97, and it was a nice home, not as nice as this one here, but nice. I remember being shocked at how much the guy paid for it. That was one of my first experiences during college with real estate and discovering that nice hoods were very expensive. Its tough to compete against internet millionaires for housing in nice hoods. This dude was the older brother of a friends friend who sold his little ISP for a few million.
The owners of this house got it for free from a rich set of parents. Yes there is a mortgage but we all know that parents don’t foreclose.
Kudos to the photographer, ugh to the owners and their parents. And they followed it up with another huge home purchase? Have their lost their minds? I can’t fathom how someone could have the cash to make these mistakes but not at least BORROW the taste to do a little better for their money!
There are not a lot of safe places to put cash these days.
Chris:”I can’t fathom how someone could have the cash to make these mistakes but not at least BORROW the taste to do a little better for their money!”
If the guy’s such a big shooter, why such a crappy place? I’d rather pay the same price to live large in a penthouse in Streeterville, River North or the Gold Coast, or pay more and get a real house.
Chris, I think Barry was referring to her daddy.
Owners’ new house is in Bethesda. Looks pretty nice, and is new and large, but not all that special–typical 5000 SF house on a 1/4 acre. About 1.5 miles from both DT Bethesda and NIH. DC is still wicked expensive, at least for “prime” properties.
cute realtor!! very meg ryan….
In the future, you will know a 2000-10 era rono by the “open” floor plans and granite kitchens and “natural stone” baths. There’s nothing special about this reno- Chicago is stuffed with features just like this, especially in rehabbed condos on the north side. It really is cookie-cutter.
It looks nice, but it lost a lot of charm in the reno, and it’s not worth a $600K premium..because this place is not worth more that $500K tops.
Laura is right. It’s just a gut job with alot of can lights and crown molding and typical $3 psf oak floors. The usual kitchen and bathroom finishes.
Laura,
Are you saying you think this house will sell for between 5-600k on the open market?
Or are you just saying you don’t care for it?
I think Laura means 500k + renovation costs (or fraction thereof).
Dan stole my thunder.
rachel, why should a buyer pay for someone else’s reno she might not much like?
We are reverting to a normal housing market, in which you need not expect to recover the costs of renovation. You MIGHT, but you shouldn’t expect to. Before 1990, you did this stuff for your own enjoyment of your home. Unless the place is in really bad shape before you renovate, you usually are not going to come close to recovering what you spent.
I want MY choices, not the previous owner’s. If you’re only rehabbing to sell, don’t bother; you’re wasting your money.
“I think Laura means 500k + renovation costs (or fraction thereof).”
Nope. As she responded to you, she means $500k. Making the 2 br vintage places she covets “worth” maybe $150k, within the price curve. B/c, seriously, if this place is “worth” $500k, what’s that 3/2 duplex up on Dayton “worth”? $300k? $350k?
As the old saw goes, the market will determine what this place is worth.
It may well be worth more than I think it is..it is in a prime area, after all, and it IS very nice. Most people would find it acceptable.
Laura, the ‘market’ is nothing more than one bozo with FHA financing looking for an $8,000 handout, or, some young couple with $1,225,000 of daddy’s money looking for a home, or, some boomer with an inheritance from their parents (likely accumulated by a survivor of the great depression).
The 20% downpayment from savings and mortgage no more than 2.5 to 3.0x income type buyer is nearly extinct, but rest assured that as prices continue declines, these prudent buyers will reappear and eventually returning to dominating the marketplace.
“#Laura Louzader on February 16th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
As the old saw goes, the market will determine what this place is worth.
It may well be worth more than I think it is..it is in a prime area, after all, and it IS very nice. Most people would find it acceptable.”
OT, but:
can someone list some places in LP/LV that are what they actually WOULD expect for a million? i’m looking in this price range and i’d prefer something smaller, something like the wellington penthouse from last week. however, everytime something is posted in the 900-1.2 range, consensus is it’s overpriced.
i’m mostly curious what people actually think you should get for a million in the area.
bonus: if you’re a realtor, you might get a client out of this.
I agree with Laura that I don’t want to pay for another person’s taste (hence my comment “or fraction thereof”) – but I do value an ok renovation such as this more than a place in need of an immediate full rehab or with 60s kitchen/baths(at least I can live and enjoy the place in the meantime and do any further reno to my taste whenever it is most convenient)…I do not know the area well enough, but if what people say is true, 500k seems too low. But it certainly doesn’t strike me as anything close to a million dollar home.
“The 20% downpayment from savings and mortgage no more than 2.5 to 3.0x income type buyer is nearly extinct, but rest assured that as prices continue declines, these prudent buyers will reappear and eventually returning to dominating the marketplace”
Yup. Fascinating to me the amount of irrational financial decisions made by the masses. I’ve been waiting for 2.5 years to start seriously looking for a place to buy, my friends all think I am insane because I have been renting. I plan to put a large chunk down and have a mortgage at about 1x income. And i’m the crazy one!
“i’m mostly curious what people actually think you should get for a million in the area.”
The consensus here would be that no place that’s listing under $1.2MM is actually worth $1.0MM.
As I said, I don’t the ask here is out of line with what the ASKs are in this area. (This is not to say they would be worth that.) I would certainly be interested in better places that are asking $1.1MM.
I’ve got a handful of friends just completely upside down on their homes. They’re stuck and can’t move. In particular, I’ve got one friend stuck in a 1 bedroom in a high rise along the lake. 300 units IIRC in the building and 40 are listed in the MLS at any given time. He doesn’t even bother listing his because he can’t compete, he didn’t do a renovation like other 1 beds in the building and he’s still got a second mortgage which puts him upside down. Young couple, want to have babies, thinking of renting the unit out at a loss every month because they need to move but they can’t sell at all.
YET I’m the loser because I rent. My yearly rent is less than 8% of my AGI; yet I’m told I’m the loser because I don’t flush 24% or more of my AGI down the toilet in interest payments.
“#tay on February 16th, 2010 at 2:09 pm
“The 20% downpayment from savings and mortgage no more than 2.5 to 3.0x income type buyer is nearly extinct, but rest assured that as prices continue declines, these prudent buyers will reappear and eventually returning to dominating the marketplace”
Yup. Fascinating to me the amount of irrational financial decisions made by the masses. I’ve been waiting for 2.5 years to start seriously looking for a place to buy, my friends all think I am insane because I have been renting. I plan to put a large chunk down and have a mortgage at about 1x income. And i’m the crazy one!”
“But it certainly doesn’t strike me as anything close to a million dollar home.”
The place is about 3000 SF. Say that replicating the structure would cost $500k or so, at most (and you’d get brand-new, for good and ill). The short lot right here is probably “worth” $300-400k (today), were it vacant. Its “fair value” is probably in the ~$850-900k ballpark, which seems “close” to a million, to me. ‘course, there’s a lot of downside, still, in the lot “value”–I think that normal city lots in desireable, but not premium, locations “should” trade for under $250k, and a small lot like this is more along $150k value.
Which gets one down under $700k for this place, which *might* satisfy folks like Laura as not-completely-absurd (and is a price at which I personally would be interested, were I in the SFH market). And I don’t like some of the things they did, am mixed on the alley location and hate the short lot.
To arrive at the price I guessed, I interpolated between the 2001 and 2004 prices, for the economic fundamentals in this country are so wretched and will remain so for such a time as to send this housing market into overshoot on the downside.
And even when we manage a real recovery, lending and financing are going to be a lot different than they were 1995-2007. I really don’t think we will see a return of the louche lending that drove the price increases from 2001-2007. That is over and it will probably not come back in our lifetimes, because it produced the credit disaster we’re working our way through now.
The generation of young people coming of age now are going to be one frugal, cautious generation, and lending will once more be risk-based, as it was before 1980, rather than asset-based. For peope who don’t remember the world the way it was before 1980, this is going to take a major re-adjustment. We oldsters will have to “rethread our heads” to understand a world where house prices have to have a reasonable relation to area incomes and rents, and where you don’t make appreciation equal to a year’s income just for occupying a dwelling with your name as owner of record.
Keep in mind that conditions have changed completely since 2001, 0r 2004. The easy lending is gone for a long time. There will be less government support for mortgage lending than there is even now, and lending standards are much tighter and will probably stay that way for a long, long time.
It will all be very weird to a lot of people, yeah.
“To arrive at the price I guessed, I interpolated between the 2001 and 2004 prices”
But, both of those sales (97 and 04) were of an unconverted 2-flat. So that’s comparing apples and oranges, even if you don’t like the reno that they did. Like pricing an individual condo in an apt conversion based on the price per key the coverter paid, before they spent $$ (assume they did, for purposes of the example) updating mechanicals, etc.
rachel on February 16th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
“I agree with Laura that I don’t want to pay for another person’s taste (hence my comment “or fraction thereof”) -”
What taste?
Can’t you see that this is a standard spec house conversion? The finishes are all upperish end mid-2000’s.
I toured this place a while back and found it to be pretty well done, but bland. House is very large and in pristine move-in condition. Basement was pretty nice too. Other upstairs bath was nicer than master IMHO. It is minimally staged with bland hotel furniture. At least it was done properly with plans and permits.
The idea that this will sell in this location at 600k is laughable.
Would I personally want to live in this house-No.
Do I think it will trade for over 900k- most likely. We would have to look at the comps.
rachel on February 16th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
“I agree with Laura that I don’t want to pay for another person’s taste (hence my comment “or fraction thereof”) -”
What taste?
Can’t you see that this is a standard spec house conversion? The finishes are all upperish end mid-2000’s.
I toured this place a while back and found it to be pretty well done, but bland. House is very large and in pristine move-in condition. Basement was pretty nice too. Other upstairs bath was nicer than master IMHO. It is minimally staged with bland hotel furniture. At least the conversion was done properly with plans and permits.
The idea that this will sell in this location at 600k is laughable.
Would I personally want to live in this house-No.
Do I think it will trade for over 900k- most likely. We would have to look at the comps.
“the conversion was done properly with plans and permits”
Then how does the assessor still think it’s a multi-family and where are the home-improvement exemptions for the property taxes?
Plans–I’ll take your word for it. But Permits? Are you sure? (not that I think permits are the be-all in any case).
tay, I feel for you. I was in a similar position before I gave up. So many things about the Chicago housing market are wrong. On the one hand, prices in the so-called green zone are bid up because Chicago is lacking in neighborhoods with characteristics that are acceptable to 30-something professionals. Vast tracks of the south and west sides are convenient to the Loop but, fairly or unfairly, unliveable in the minds of most buyers. Heck, Uptown can be super scary, and the problems in Rogers Park have been discussed extensively here.
Meanwhile, we are at the moment near a historic high in terms of the premium people pay for city living. My understanding is that much of the green zone has only in the last 20-30 years been reclaimed as a pleasant place to live.
Lot sizes in the city also compare very unfavorably to other towns, and well-lit condo conversions are scarce. (Forget about useful outdoor space.)
Finally, nothing in the city can be a permanent arrangement if you want kids unless you are willing to pay twice for school, once in property taxes and again at Latin or Lab or wherever you find space.
And that’s why I gave up on Chicago real estate.
This looks more like a 2 flat conversion than a spec house conversion. But i’m just guessing here
“nothing in the city can be a permanent arrangement if you want kids unless you are willing to pay twice for school”
This is (as MUCH discussed here) not true. HS is genuinely problematic–at least for the next several years, at a minimum–but there are plenty of viable elementary school options, if one actually cares to look.
Now, there is the problem of *this* being “typical” in size and price for what’s available in the attendance areas for the good elementary schools, but that’s not “paying twice”.
anon (tfo), thanks for the correction. I guess I’m a little out of touch.
I also forgot to mention the dire financial straits of the state. Sure, many places are having the same problems, but I have much less confidence in the ability of our elected politicians to confront the legacy costs of public unions, let alone do something about endemic political corruption, than in other states.
“a spec house conversion”
What would that be? A conversion from a house to a house?
A “spec conversion of a 2-flat to a SFH” was how I read dahlia.
“I also forgot to mention the dire financial straits of the state. Sure, many places are having the same problems, but I have much less confidence in the ability of our elected politicians to confront the legacy costs of public unions, let alone do something about endemic political corruption, than in other states.”
THIS really concerns me, too. Hopefully the County govt turns around *a bit* next year. And everyone stops using the scary pension deficit numbers to scare us.
Tho, Illinois is not *nearly* so bad off as California–altho, that’s like saying the guy who lost both his legs and one arm is not nearly so bad off as the guy who lost all four limbs.
anon (tfo) on February 16th, 2010 at 3:00 pm
“the conversion was done properly with plans and permits”
Then how does the assessor still think it’s a multi-family and where are the home-improvement exemptions for the property taxes?
anon ( tfo) Touche! I saw the plans and assumed the permits.
Chris – fortunately, kids are a ways off for me. probably 10 years or so before i’d have to worry about putting a kid in school.
i guess at that time i will have to decide if the extra expense of private school for 12 years is worth the benefits of city living, which i greatly enjoy. for now, i just need to find a place i enjoy living for the next 5-10 years so i don’t have to keep up this seemingly endless apartment search.
i’ll say one thing, it really is depressing reading about all of this stuff. property after property has glaring problems that any reasonable person shouldn’t have ignored. i guess nothing to do besides continue to try to make smart decisions and hope things work out for the best, but i am not optimistic on the future of countries financial health.
Tay,
I’m in a similar situation as you. I’ve been looking to purchase a property for ~2 years and haven’t found the “right” place. I’m hoping to find a home before my lease is up in the summer.
I would also appreciate if people would post links to places in Near North/LP where they felt a $800k-$1mil price tag was justified.
I came across this listing a few days ago and I thought it was intriguing:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/331-W-Belden-Ave-60614/unit-3/home/21725660
It sold for 910k in ’06. I E-mailed Sabrina to make a post about it, hopefully she does. Curious to see what people think about it.
Here is a somewhat similar property, nicer kitchen, slightly bigger lot ( ugly facade) in Bell school district. Under contract for over 1.1 mil.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3857-N-Oakley-Ave-60618/home/13390659
that doesn’t list what it’s under contract for, right? looks like that was listed at 1.1, could be under contract for much less.
I was wondering what happened to the Bell house. Will be interesting to see what it sold for, if it goes through. Finishes were pretty nice, thought the kitchen layout was a bit odd and didn’t love the wet bar in the family room. Also didn’t like the deck/yard very much, IIRC.
Jonathan,
the Belden place is part of a condo association that is more old school. They don’t like younger people. Reminded me of the Gold Coast in a sense.
Check out this one – don’t totally agree with the decorating, but I understand the price and value given the location and space.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2130-N-Lincoln-Park-W-60614/unit-5N/home/13347368
Laura, again… what’s with the “worth $500K?” You can wax all day about the credit crisis and generations to come etc… but if they originally listed this at $899K, it would have been sold near list in a week. Have you not seen a sales comp for single family homes in Blaine? I sold a 2000 sq ft duplex condo built in 1996 with original finishes at 3616 N Janssen for $550K last fall.
Let’s make “predictions” based on market reality people. Once in a while I’m wrong, but I’m not going to miss the mark by $300-$400K on this place.
@dahliachi
“I toured this place a while back and found it to be pretty well done, but bland. House is very large and in pristine move-in condition. Basement was pretty nice too. Other upstairs bath was nicer than master IMHO. It is minimally staged with bland hotel furniture.
The idea that this will sell in this location at 600k is laughable.”
Exactly… I’ve gotten torched for calling out ridiculous selling price “predictions” before because they were just “opinions”. But when someone says this house SHOULD sell at $500K or $600K that’s an uneducated opinion with no basis… and to continually post this stuff over and over…I mean, what the hell?
I’m sorry, it’s late.
I agree with most comments on this. It’s in Blaine, which is the draw here but so many strikes against it for the asking price: alley lot, no yard and the finishes lack cohesion: there’s three different types of wood finishes on the first floor alone, the transition from slate entry to living room floor doesn’t quite work and the new wood floors don’t look expensive. The kitchen has fab appliances, but the cabinet/countertop combination looks a bit passe. The master bath has nice square footage but again, the finishes are not polished enough for this price point. I say this house is stuck in no man’s land. Unless they’re willing to take a big hit – my guess would be low to mid-900s, I don’t think it will sell, period.
Jonathan, re: Belden, if you’re going to buy, you should definitely buy on the top floor — the units have some pretty cool outdoor space, on two levels if I recall correctly. The first floor units have sold around the same level but aren’t anywhere near as nice, IIRC. I looked at one of these two or three years ago but I couldn’t justify both the high price and the $800+ assessment. No comment on whether the association is snobby — although that would have been nice for my realtor to point out, which s/he did not.
Tay and Jonathan,
If you’re interested in a stunning 2400-sq.ft. penthouse with 360 views in the historic Headley School on Magnolia Ave in LP… we’ll be listing soon for around $825.
I know someone who used to live in the belden building, and the association was difficult to say the least. I don’t think they really liked have younger people (under 35) at all living there.
It’s a great location. I’m assuming you get one parking space with the unit, correct? The alley is a little tight back there where the parking is.
In the immediate neighborhood, street parking for guests can be difficult – often you have to park on Stockton, which is one of the most frequent places for car break-ins in Lincoln Park and the north side.
Nothing like a $950,000 buy-in and some shitty neighbors to make life annoying.
Reminded me of New York coops, except you’d be spending 4-5 times that and have even more headaches in NY.
DZ:
“Also didn’t like the deck/yard very much, IIRC”
I think we discussed that house before. I really don’t understand why one puts in the size deck they did–it’s ~2/3s of the space b/t the house and the garage and at main floor height–in other words, it leaves you with an almost unusable patch of grass (good for dogs, I guess) *and* puts you on display for most of the block. Pretty odd–just like the wetbar ten feet from the kitchen.
I’m interested to see the sale price–there’s a rundown two flat in the next block that’s also under K, which will also be interesting.
heidi,
if you can give me some contact information i’d love to follow up on that.
This is a very nice house and the renovations are were done well but unfortunately this is not a million dollar house.
Nice enough renovations but the lot is only 30×85 and who counts bedrooms in the basement? house prices in the suburbs have come back to below 2002 levels and the city is following. Getting 04’s $600k would be a stretch.
“Getting 04’s $600k would be a stretch.”
In ’04 it was an un-updated 2-flat. Getting this for under $750k would be a serious deal. Something around $850 would be “fair” and if they listed under $999k, I think they’d sell v. quickly for something around $950k.
But they tried to make money on it, which was ridiculous.
This seems to be down to $1MM now (although the link in the topic post above still shows ($1.1??).
Assuming say a $50K discount off list, that’s close to 25% off the 2006 price. If you think bubble prices were 25-30% too high, then it’s not insane to think about buying this place, and interest in this place (even though it is around $1MM) would not demonstrate a return to bubbly times. If you think we have 40-50% to fall from the peaks, then it would be a mistake.
The seeming fact that they were not getting enough interest at $1.1MM suggests that we are a fair ways from the height of the bubble.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3847-N-Janssen-Ave-60613/home/13384216