Move-In Ready 6-Bedroom Portage Park Bungalow for Under $300K: 5416 W. Berenice

Portage Park is famous for its “bungalow belt” of historic bungalows built in the 1920s and 1930s such as this 6-bedroom brick bungalow at 5416 W. Berenice.

Currently listed as a “short sale” the price was just reduced by $50,000 and it’s now listed just under $300,000.

It has all the bells and whistles that home buyers look for including central air and a 2-car garage.

The home has 6 bedrooms, with 2 on the second floor, 2 on the main floor and 2 in the basement.

There are hardwood floors throughout the first and second level and ceramic tile in the basement. It also has retained some of its vintage charm with crown molding and built-ins on the main floor.

The kitchen has newer cabinets and stainless steel appliances.

The listing describes the baths as “spa-like.”

You even get a slightly bigger than standard lot with this home of 30×125.

Is this a deal?

Maribel Selva at Coldwell Banker has the listing. See the pictures here.

If you want to see it in person, there is an Open House this Sunday, July 11, from 12-2 PM.

  • Sold in May 1991 for $125,000
  • Sold in November 2002 for $335,000
  • Sold in August 2004 for $350,000
  • Sold in July 2008 for $370,000
  • Originally listed in February 2010 for $358,900
  • Reduced
  • Currently listed as a “short sale” for $298,900
  • Taxes of $4516
  • Central Air
  • Bedroom #1: 16×11 (second floor)
  • Bedroom #2: 12×10 (main floor)
  • Bedroom #3: 11×10 (main floor)
  • Bedroom #4: 13×9 (second floor)
  • Bedroom #5: 11×10 (basement)
  • Bedroom #6: 13×10 (basement)
  • Family room: 15×10 (basement)

73 Responses to “Move-In Ready 6-Bedroom Portage Park Bungalow for Under $300K: 5416 W. Berenice”

  1. i think wee need to go over the rules again, how is the an actual 6br when 2br’s are in the basement? even the listing agent has it as a 4br but in the notes/description it becomes a 6br?

    Its a nice place and for 250k its a good deal for a family, portage park is beautiful in spring summer and fall, the indoor pool is still a great place to get laps in during the winter. the olympic diving pool is fun as heck.

    the appointments on the place are nice but Groove smells a polish contractors special.

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  2. wow, this realtors must frequent some rather dismal spas if she thinks these are ‘spa like’.

    Glass block must be all the rage at spas now-adays.

    The rest of the interior looks decent. The front is drab. Those chunky white vinyl windows really do ruin the whole ‘historic’ bungalow look; shame.

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  3. Tom,

    hahahaahahaaha didnt see the feldco special windows, but hey for 250k would you think wood ones would be cost effective at this price point? at least its better than the old wood drafty/sticking/painted shut/put up take down storm windows things that was probably there originally

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  4. huh I guess my friends live in Riis park not portage park, anyway this is a nice place but i wouldn’t want to drive to work, bleh

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  5. Pretty decent looking place at a good price, all things considered. I like the living room but those builtins putting the TV at the level would drive me nuts. Talk about a crick in your neck.

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  6. nothing like thick, bright white windows and capping to screw up an exterior.

    I replaced old wood windows on my old building. Eventhough we went winyl it can look nice. Instead of white-on-white (which is the lowest cost option) we did a deep brown window with a black capping. Definant pop against the stone exterior. It was about a 50% premium over the white-on-white but well worth it.

    If you wanted a more ‘historical’ look, real wood windows are an expensive option.

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  7. meaning…real-wood double hung replacement windows.

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  8. This should be selling for less than 220k. Figure PI of about 1000 and taxes of 400. Take home income of the household including the in laws in the basement should be in the mid to upper 3000’s per month. That’s afforability and that’s how you prevent today’s purchases from becoming tomorrows foreclosures. The working class wasn’t buying 300,000 homes anytime in history until the housing bubble in the early 2000’s. Look at the 1991 price. It tripled in 17 years. That’s hella appreciation.

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  9. “huh I guess my friends live in Riis park not portage park,”

    portage park is a neighborhood and a park, Riis is just a park the hood is Belmont-craign and montclare

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  10. hd- it was also very ghetto in 1991 and wages were much lower back then too, add in inflation and upkeep (this is a well maintained home IMO) and its not out of this world

    a mid level honda accord in 1991 was 15k…

    a mid level honda accord in 2010 is 27k…

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  11. OT: detailed article about the relationship between interest rates and RE prices. Whatever happened to Zekas?

    http://bit.ly/c8BHHp

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  12. Come on Sonies, don’t let “logic” and “reasoning” get in the way of just generically extrapolating numbers

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  13. Also HD I am sure in 91 this place had 1 bath, no second floor bedrooms, no finished basement and a grandma style kitchen.

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  14. “Also HD I am sure in 91 this place had 1 bath, no second floor bedrooms, no finished basement and a grandma style kitchen”

    hahaha, i will 97% say in 91 it didnt even have the bedrooms up stairs and attic was unfinished.

    HD are you now saying this place at 250k (if you can even get the short sale that low) is still over priced?

    your saying a FHA 3.5 down 30yr fixed $1200 a month mortgage is to expensive for family with two working parents the man making 50-60k an year and the woman 30k?

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  15. HD doesn’t realize that most family “working class” folks live in the exurbs in their 2000sqft 200k house

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  16. It seems as though all of the “chatter” always ends up in a discussion of class and money. Well, I am going to put my unpopular 2 cents in: I am tired of catering to the middle and lower middle classes. For the most part, many of them partied their way through high school and/or college, many don’t truly understand the words “dedication and hard work” and now expect the world to “give them a break”. Well, I say, “too bad”… a little suffering never hurt anyone (again, I am not talking about the poor people – just the middle and lower middle class). Let their struggles be a non-verbal lesson to their children – their kids are our only hope to stop the cylcle of dependency!!!

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  17. “your saying a FHA 3.5 down 30yr fixed $1200 a month mortgage is to expensive for family with two working parents the man making 50-60k an year and the woman 30k?”

    LOL Groove, does your wife know what a sexist you are?
    For all you are getting with this house for the asking, you can’t bitch about the white windows or the glass brick. These commments are just bitching for bitching sake.
    Though I am not at all familiar with the area, try getting this much space, in this condition anywhere in the precious green zone.

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  18. Wow is clio really bob is disguise?

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  19. There are people/companies that help you restore traditional wood windows and storms. This is often less expensive than new windows and looks awesome on the old bungalows.

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  20. What is the precious green zone? FWIW, I saw this house a few months ago when it was priced higher. I didn’t think it was outrageously priced then but apparently it has gone into short sale.

    The basement was a bit too cramped for me. I couldn’t imagine it as a rec room (I’m 6’2″ though) and those posts make it a bit ackward to really place furniture and maintain flow.

    The rest of the house rehab falls under did the best they could. They didn’t go hogwild and spend a fortune, but they didn’t cheap out either, except where maybe spending extra money only made aestheic instead of practical improvements (windows, spa-like bathrooms, etc).

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  21. “LOL Groove, does your wife know what a sexist you are?”

    yep she calls me on BS all the time.

    “For all you are getting with this house for the asking, you can’t bitch about the white windows or the glass brick”

    we are cribbitchers i thought you knew. but westloop, do you get the same vibe i get from the pics “DIY” but a DIY done buy a tradesman? not saying its a bad thing cause i looks to be done “right” and the quality will show IRL.

    as for the vinyl window i put them in at my parents place, cut the the utility bill in half! well they were vinyl clad wood but they were “chunky” as well.
    but hey they dont look that great but for the price i paid for them and the energy efficiency they get its worth the eye sore

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  22. Sonies,

    How ‘very ghetto’ was portage park in 1991? Pray tell Sonies, was it ghetto like the south side of Chicago? Did you live there? Did you visit there? Do you know people who lived there? Has Portage Park gentrified significantly over the last 20 years? Do you ever seem to have any idea what you’re talking about?

    Barry,

    I’ve seen literally thousands of bankruptcies, foreclosures, loan mods, credit reports, loan applications, real estate closings and the like. I know what the general ranges are. So if you have better numbers for affordability then you tell me. For god’s sake this is a $300k bungalow with a finished basement. Lay off the kool-aid. if this is such a great deal then WHY HAS IT BEEN LANGUISHING FOR 136 days.

    Grove77,

    Does your family have a woman making $30k and the man making $50-60k? Did you buy a $300,000 bungalow on a 30×125 lot with 3.5% down? I didn’t think so. Furthermore, $250k with 3.5% down is not $1,200 a month, it’s more than that, it’s more like $1,600 including insurance and the such.

    Keep drinking the kool-aid folks when think that bungalows in portgage park should cost $300k.

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  23. Crib bitchers….perfect description!
    Obviously the work was done by a seasoned DIYer, as it is far above average. Sure he/she might have had a brain fart when choosing the windows as for a bit more $$ they could have chosen a colored frame, but in this case the function aspect is more important that the aesthetic aspect.
    With Chicago winters, I think we could all overlook the white frames if it meant staying warm and draft free. The original windows on Bungalows were probably the worst ever built as the quality of the materials at that time was very low. This style of house was generally a very economical option, so many things were not top shelf quality.
    This type of back and forth reminds me of House Hunters with first time buyers wanting the perfect….everything, custom colors included. Things like this have a simple fix and nothing to bitch about in the long run. Again, for what you getting for your $300k, it is a great deal.

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  24. homedelete, what’s wrong w/ kool-aid?

    (sorry, just trying to lighten up the mood)

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  25. “if this is such a great deal then WHY HAS IT BEEN LANGUISHING FOR 136 days.”
    Most of the listings, regardless of the price point, location, income level of the hood, etc are languishing on the market. Very few people are buying other than medium range, somewhat inexperienced investors hoping their ‘deals’ will soon translate into lucrative sales.
    Those everyday working souls who are buying now are looking to get the most usuable space that is well maintained built from the highest quality materials possible…and this is true at every price point.

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  26. “This type of back and forth reminds me of House Hunters with first time buyers wanting the perfect….everything, custom colors included.”

    Well said, westloopelo, well said!!!! I couldn’t agree with you more!!! Having rehabbed several houses and condos, I am always amazed at the demands of these relatively clueless bargain hunters. I don’t think they are malicious – just uninformed and living in some sort of fantasy where they can live like a rock star without working for it!!!

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  27. HD,

    Let me answer your questions
    1. when we bought yes my wife was making around that at one job, and i was making around that at one job.
    2. and no i didnt pay 300k for a bungalow with 3.5% down. (would do that today) we dropped like 40-55% down on a wood frame shack.
    3. even at $1600 (Insurance and taxes) isnt that bad for 4br house in turn key condition.

    also
    “Has Portage Park gentrified significantly over the last 20 years?”
    actually in the 80’s and 90’s it was beautiful. though it has slipped significantly north of the park

    “Did you visit there? Do you know people who lived there?”
    yes i did and still do

    there is no way anyone should pay 350k for this hence the shortsale.
    but even if you can get the bank to give it to you for 275k its not a “deal” but its not a rip off either.

    damn it HD what is your office number i need to call someone to give you a fricken hug. your soooooo doomy gloomy

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  28. ummmm by the way nobody as brought up (read bitched about)….

    ….how is the an actual 6br when 2br’s are in the basement? even the listing agent has it as a 4br but in the notes/description it becomes a 6br?

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  29. Groove77, what is the criteria for a room to be a bedroom? My understanding is it needs an exterior window. Does it also need a closet?

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  30. Sure space in basements are not supposed to be included in any discussion at resale. But, we all know the space WILL be used, so why not be candid about it to let the buyer know what exactly it can be used for?
    Not a fan of redoing basements, but the few that we have done all turned out to be the most used and most valued areas of the home. Huge Media rooms, party rooms, in law suites, seperate rental income for empty nesters, etc.
    I am all about truth being revealed in listings, so if the space is there, it is usable and the buyers realize the potential of the problems having living space in the lower levels of a home, why not advertise it as usable space?
    The rules and regulations of the entire RE Industry need a huge overhaul and adherence of the new rules by all who use them to make their living. You have perfectly fine living space in a home, but since it is below grade it can’t be advertised as such. Then you have agents refusing to list correct rooms sizes because of an inability of the industry to agree on one set of standards, or utilize correct floorplans…because they don’t have the proper software on their computers.
    I don’t get how this Industry is allowed to operate as it has for the years it has. So much of what has happened leading to the crash is directly connected to RE agents and brokers and their lack of responsibility in their jobs.
    Don’t get me going on this subject right now….

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  31. Crabby cribbitchers today:(

    Regarding the house- rip out the kitchen and put it something awesome, replace or somehow re-clad (if thats even possible?) those ugly windows, and I think it’s a nice house. Maybe re-tile a bathroom too. At this price (or lower-not sure about the hood at all) you can get a solid home and customize it exactly to your taste.

    Smile everyone, it’s Friday:) And not so miserably humid outside!

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  32. “My understanding is it needs an exterior window. Does it also need a closet?”

    well the chicago code is “borrowed light” and closets.
    ummm for basements to be legal i always thought that it needs to have two “real” exits not the second exit to the upstairs but exit out.

    hope a true code person can chime in becasue dont trust me as i dont get permits for anything, see http://cribchatter.com/?p=8914#comment-80120

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  33. “I don’t get how this Industry is allowed to operate as it has for the years it has. So much of what has happened leading to the crash is directly connected to RE agents and brokers and their lack of responsibility in their jobs.”

    Basically, you are dealing with a bunch of morons!!! I own a small real estate company and I cannot believe the number of imbeciles involved in real estate regulation. They actually think that they are doing great and important things – but basically they don’t have the knowledge, education, or deeper understanding to make important changes. Power should be taken away from these idiots.

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  34. “I’ve seen literally thousands of bankruptcies, foreclosures, loan mods, credit reports, loan applications, real estate closings and the like. I know what the general ranges are. So if you have better numbers for affordability then you tell me. For god’s sake this is a $300k bungalow with a finished basement. Lay off the kool-aid. if this is such a great deal then WHY HAS IT BEEN LANGUISHING FOR 136 days. ”

    I wasn’t trying to argue anything specific about this particular property, I just find it strange that you arbitrarily extrapolate numbers with no consideration for much else and pull some number (in this case, $220k) out of somewhat thin air.

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  35. I’m basing it on salaries and incomes for people in the area. I’ve got a number of clients in the general area of portgage park although not on this block. They heloc’d the heck out of their homes during the 2000’s and now they have $2,000 a month mortgage payments and they cannot afford it and seek loan mods that are generally in the $1,300 to $1,400 range based upon their income. So it may seem to be out of thin air, but it’s not, it’s based on my experience with people in the general area. Yes there’s the occasional fortune 500 senior VP in the area who went a little crazy in 2005/2006 (true story!!!!) but in general they’re working class wage earners and that’s about what they can afford. Too many unexpected expenses crop up, especially with little no savings, that they cannot afford $1,500 or $1,600 a month. They’re all defauling on those payments.

    “I wasn’t trying to argue anything specific about this particular property, I just find it strange that you arbitrarily extrapolate numbers with no consideration for much else and pull some number (in this case, $220k) out of somewhat thin air.”

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  36. @WL,

    I had said, and still think, that this is a decent house. The listing boasts of ‘spa like baths’. Because of that boasting I brought up the irony that the one bath is quite dingy and has a glass block window. Not spa like at all.

    That being said, still a nice house that can accomidate a decent sized family, even just in the above grad bedrooms. I think 2 parents and 2-3 kids could like out an entire generation in this house.

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  37. Homedelete (and anyone else who cares to join in):

    Given your experience, how much of a mortgage do you think this imaginary working class couple can/should afford and not be ‘house poor’? In all seriousness, are they effectively priced out of the Chicago market?

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  38. westloopelo:
    “The original windows on Bungalows were probably the worst ever built as the quality of the materials at that time was very low. This style of house was generally a very economical option, so many things were not top shelf quality.”

    Do you even know what you are talking about? Do you even know when most Chicago bungalows were built? Would you tear out the leaded/stained glass windows? Much, much better to renovate original windows, as this era of housing had very high building quality and craftsmanship.

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  39. Prof: 180k – 220k mortgage, plus taxes and insurance. Somewhere between 1200 and 1400 a month. Add in diapers, school expenses, car payments, and unexpected expenses and there’s hardly any money left over. Which is better than 4 years ago when families used credit to make up the differnece. Once you start having working class familiespaying 1500 or more it stresses the budget.

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  40. And anontfo I know your going to attempt to rebuff my numbers but going on the 3x income for mortgage amount; 180k is 60k a year and 220k is roughly 70k. That’s an above median income in chicago which comforms to your theory that the above median income is the typical homeowner. Sure you can buy a sfh for a family down by midway for 200k but anywhere in the green zone 200k for adequate living quarters is a near impossibility for a family of four. Which is why the green zone will continue to decline for years to come. The numbers just don’t make sense and the fact that post tax credit sales are anemic is proof.

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  41. HD —

    Working families of 4 that make 65k a year total are not new buyers in Lincoln Park or Lake View and never have been. Neighborhood segmentation along income lines is true of all large cities. There are lots of “affordable” SFHs to successful younger people. Plus, so long as parents are willing to hand over down payments, income-rich but wealth-poor younger families will continue to buy at similar price levels.

    Not sure how much your chancery job takes you to other big cities on the east coast, but Chicago offers a lot for the money at the higher end. My experience with relo families (friends, not by occupation) is that they are always amazed at the combination of house, neighborhood and sq footage they get in Chicago and its surrounding suburbs.

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  42. @ dd,
    of course I know the history of bungalows there in Chicago and also ones in the Denver area…Denver’s Washington Park area in particular. I am a long standing member of an organization devoted to the restoration and preservation of these magnificent examples of architecture.
    My next big project will be the restoration of a Prarie Style Bungalow in the Denver area. I have my sight set on two in particular that have been languishing on the market for over a year due to no price chops.
    While I do agree there were SOME, not all, high quality Stained Glass windows produced during this period, this house would not have been a model which would have featured them. This level of bungalow is closer to the mail order style featured by Sears and Roebuck during the 20’s and 30’s.
    And of course I would never tear out original sg windows that are restorable. One of my crew members specializes in restoring stained glass and other period features, so I am well aware of the value they hold.
    Remember though, not ALL houses constructed during ‘this era’ were of high quality and craftsmanship. For you to make the statement that during the (depresssion) era, the quality and craftsmanship was all of the same level shows that it is you who might not know what they are talking about!

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  43. westloopelo:
    “The original windows on Bungalows were probably the worst ever built as the quality of the materials at that time was very low.”

    The replacement window(s) on this house lowers the value of the house and will probably not last as long as the original window(s0.

    My posting does not refer to depression era construction, as many bungalows were build before the depression. 1920s had unparalleled quality of materials, design, building techniques (concrete foundations), and craftsmen who then had little work during the depression. America lost many craftsman because of the depression.

    Houses vary in quality and craftsmanship, but I am always pleasantly surprised by the quality in this era of homes. Bathrooms that are still functioning and look good. Original kitchen cabinets (yes, full height) and lots and lots of wood, even closets have oak trim. Windows are solid, old growth wood and often are less expensive to rehabilitate than replace. Glass often is thicker and has a slight “wavyness” to it.

    Try using some qualifiers and you won’t have to be so defensive or make claims of what others said.

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  44. The point here is that the quality of a middle class house (one salary) in the 1920s could not be replicated today. A 60-70K salary will not get you new construction with crown moldings, custom windows, brick construction SFH etc. in a middle class Chicago neighborhood today. That salary can get you an older home, where $$$ is put in for renovations etc. New construction with a custom interior runs about $300-$500/sq ft, unrealistic for most, as the price of a small (1200 sq ft) house without the land is over $360K. So why do we now need two salaries to buy a house and why is housing still too expensive?

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  45. JMM, whoa your comment was straight out of right field…..who said anything about working class families in lincoln park??????I’m talking about trying to pay for 300k bungalows in portage park for households making 70k a year. Of course chicago is cheaper than the coast but that has nothing at allto do with the price of this bungalow.

    And speaking of the coasts, I read today that santa cruz ca prices are down 57% this bust and continuing to fall!!! How’s that for the coasts

    And finally, in case you’re too youmg to remember, lincoln park used to be very working class and somethings you see remnants in the crapshacks with grey siding inhabited by eldeerly couples.

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  46. dd, the FHA 3.5% financing combined with investors buying to renovate and resell sets the floor for everyone. It has very little to do with parental down payments, unlike JMM, who I’m sure still sucks off that teet

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  47. JMM, you are totally wrong when you say that working class folk have never been buyers in lincoln park or lake view, you don’t even know how totally wrong you are.

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  48. I have to agree with homedelete on this one. In fact, I know someone who owns a bar in the middle of Lincoln Park (has run it for 40 years.) It was the ghetto when he started it! Awful neighborhood. They are truly working class (no college education, works at the bar every day etc.)

    They basically got lucky that the neighborhood changed around them and the real estate they bought all those years before appreciated. It is their biggest asset now- obviously.

    In the early 1970s, parents were scared to send their kids to DePaul. A lot has changed.

    Same with Lakeview. Totally working class/middle class even in the early 1980s.

    This housing bubble did a doozy on the outer middle class suburbs. Homedelete is right. A $300k bungalow “seems” cheap- but for middle class families that is not cheap. And isn’t Portage Park or Jefferson Park supposed to be middle class?

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  49. danny (lower case D) on July 11th, 2010 at 10:45 pm

    In the 60s and 70s, Armitage Ave. (near Sheffield) was a Puerto Rican strip of commerce, much like today’s strip near Division and California.

    Old Town and Lincoln Ave. were the hippie centers. The Chicago Outfit ran nightclubs on Rush and Division Streets, and porn shops and peep shows on Wells Street. Wealthy professionals lived in newer developments, like Sandburg Place. At one point, Uptown had a rather large native American population (I wonder where they went).

    My point with all of this reminiscing. Neighborhoods have always changed and will continue to change. Not always in a positive direction.

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  50. how many suburbs in the “60’s and 70’s that were very nice, are now in decline? I’d say more square miles and more population and more housing stock is declining in Chicagoland than is getting better. Problem is many (pundits, media, etc.) focus on the improvements in the the green zone, and the expansion of the green zone, while never focusing on how many other areas are in serious decline (suburbs). Some of the the 60’s and 70’s housing stock in the burbs is really going downhill and fast. Hispanic are living in these places, and they are not keeping up the properties. Hispanics are great and all….but they never created a neighborhood, built a cathedral, started a university or built a hospital like europeans did.

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  51. What are people’s general thoughts about the future of Portage Park, Mayfair, and Montclare over the next 10 years or so. When I was growing up, these were solid, nice, working-class neighborhoods. A bit off the el grid, but close to the Kennedy, and decent ‘hoods/’burbs like Sauganash, Norridge, etc. The prices in these areas seem like great values if they don’t turn ghetto. Are these areas due to pop or decline?

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  52. “What are people’s general thoughts about the future of Portage Park, Mayfair, and Montclare over the next 10 years or so”

    EJ – Although those areas are not going to turn into the gold coast/lincoln park- type areas, I think it is anyone’s guess whether they will turn into urban ghettos.

    Interestingly, Westchester (near west suburb) is a great example of a town that has managed to keep up it’s image as a clean, safe town while keeping housing costs extremely low (175-275 for a decent house). The residents are the ones that are responsible for keeping it such a clean, great place to live. If those areas have the same type of people, they will probably do well..

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  53. “Try using some qualifiers and you won’t have to be so defensive or make claims of what others said.”

    I am not being defensive, I am simply answering your baseless accusation. You are posting information you found on wikipedia with no real working knowledge of bungalows or of what was happening during this era.
    That ‘wavy’ and thick glass you refer to is a defect during the production due to low grade materials and poor construction methods.
    You are picking out a small detail and saying this is devaluing the home. Actually replacing the old windows (of low quality and no value) along with the other improvements has increased it’s value (non monetary) as the new owners will be getting a fairly ‘new’ home with much usable and nicely done space.
    Any person showing interest in a bungalow such as this is not doing so because of it’s historical or architectural value, but rather for the livability. I am sure they could care less about the replacement windows other than the fact that they are good for keeping out the elements.
    If the originals were so well constructed and of value (again they were not stained glass) why are they not present now?

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  54. “What are people’s general thoughts about the future of Portage Park, Mayfair, and Montclare over the next 10 years or so”

    Montclare-well in my hay day it was mostly italian with sprinkles of irish and bit more of polish. NOW the only italians/polish/irish left are 70, 80, 90 year olds that never moved and wont. almost all its new inhabitants are Hispanic with 90% being mexican.
    If you want to know how the new mexican residants are taking care of the that hood just look at the shops down grand and north down harlem before the bubble. (after the bubble its even worse). Oddly there are business with money there, Caputo’s market gets a much need new home with a DECENT PARKING LOT!

    Portage-again in my hay day it was polish/German/Irish in that order, it was beautiful and safe. now its mostly European and taking a turn the Monteclare is taking but slower. Strangly its has more gang activity than mayfair or montclare but it kind of always had more.

    Mayfair-is were my aunt raised her kids and is still kind of the same. it hasnt fought off the mexican influx butt has better than most areas. the park over the last 10 years gets a little more ghetto each year.

    all said these areas over the next 10 years look to be getting worse as they have already declined, add to that the foreclosures that are happening there (almost as many as the southside) it doesnt look good.

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  55. Too add, please dont take my observation as racist towards Mexican culture. as its more of a class issue within the race and to me it seems as the lower class has moved into these areas and have not kept up it charm. as if a higher class of that race would have inhabited there they would have kept its charm while infusing their culture and taste into it.

    ******all of this is my observations and opinions and do not reflect what may truly be happening********

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  56. danny (lower case D) on July 12th, 2010 at 10:34 am

    Dan said: “Hispanics are great and all….but they never created a neighborhood, built a cathedral, started a university or built a hospital like europeans did.”

    Sorry to be a history scold, but Google up “Spanish Mission” for many examples of churches and neighborhoods constructed in the American Southwest, long before the Pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock.

    You want an example in Chicago? Google up “Our Lady of Guadalupe Church” to find out about the oldest Mexican Parish in the City. This church was constructed by/for Mexican Parishoners, who mostly worked in the steel mills of the southeast side.

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  57. Danny and Dan,

    it really doesnt matter of what they built in the past, its about what they are building now and in the future.

    a quick stroll down the streets will tell you how thats working out.

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  58. quick stroll down the south and west sides will tell you a lot of things too, what’s your point exactly?

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  59. Stoll?? I wouldn’t get out of my car.

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  60. “Spanish mission” is European. Spain is part of Europe.

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  61. “What are people’s general thoughts about the future of Portage Park, Mayfair, and Montclare over the next 10 years or so”

    These areas seem to be experiencing more downward trends in housing prices. Prices still do not seem to be stable.

    I personally think there are great deals to be had, as prices can be 50% off peak prices. I especially like Montclare, as many city workers live there.

    Westchester is similar to the above areas in Chicago, except that there is no rail transportation. Esthetically, the town is not great, and the housing stock is rather plain. Great deal on housing (prices are off about 50% from the peak), as long as your kids are not in high school. Disfunctional high school district is reported to have many problems, yet property taxes are high.

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  62. “what’s your point exactly?”

    oops, sorry sonies i had a point yesterday and would have shared it with you in full. but as of today i forgot where i was going with that. Damn old age messing with my gooey cranium computer.

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  63. Prices are falling in all these neighborhoods which is a good thing and buyers are employed, have good credit and often a down payment. I don’t mind living among people with savings, good credit and employment.

    Moreover, I believe there is a trend going on, and I don’t have any hard stats, but, buyers are finally beginning to see established areas in the city, a little west of the green zone, as acceptable areas to live, including portage, mayfair, albany, saug, irving park, etc.

    Here’s a nice little 4 bedroom cottage for $250k at 4202 N. Whipple that closed in April. It needs a little work to convert the upstairs but still.

    How much would this cottage cost 8 or 12 blocks to the east? $400? $500?

    http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4202-N-Whipple-St-60618/home/13487614

    ““What are people’s general thoughts about the future of Portage Park, Mayfair, and Montclare over the next 10 years or so””

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  64. “I don’t mind living among people with savings, good credit and employment”

    HD please point me to a neighborhood that has at least 50% of these types of people.

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  65. Hello, I’m a lurker, first time commenter. My hubby and I live in this neighborhood with our new baby. We moved in 5 years ago. I love stopping by this website to see if there’s any chat about PP. Some things I love about PP: the actual park is really nice. The large outdoor pool and kiddie pool are pristine. (the folks running the pool can be really strict but I like that.) I love taking my baby out for strolls out there. It’s fun to watch the summer camp kids, groups of people lifting light weights together, lots of walkers, joggers, tennis players, etc. I am very disappointed at the closing of so many businesses over by Milwaukee and Irving Pk. I can say that the neighborhood association and the “Friends of the Park” group are working hard to bring new activities and renovations to the area (new Farmer’s Market, Movies in the park, and a circus appearing in October.) And the neighborhood association managed to get the “for rent” signs and old business signs removed from Milwaukee over by six corners to make it look alittle less depressing. Many residents do care about getting the neighborhood a higher, more positive profile. Anyway, chat on. I’ll be reading!

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  66. “….it really doesnt matter of what they built in the past, its about what they are building now and in the future.”
    You know I love you Groove, but admit it, dan and danny handed it to you hard and you are left trying to talk your way out of it.
    LOL J/K, but it was funny to read… Thanks for my laugh of the day buddy!!
    I thought someone would hand it to you over the ‘is it racist’ (referring to Tosh.O) Mexican comment.
    And while it doesn’t really matter to this conversation as I understood the class/race distinction, the crewmember I spoke of regarding sellers actually measuring and revealing the sq ftage of units is Mexican man who never went to school and only begin speaking English when he became one of our crew years ago.
    Measuring all of our rehab projects and drawing detailed and accurate floorplans (most of the time from memory) is but one of many talents he possesses. He actually built his own home in Florida on his own with no help from anyone.
    Moral of this unneeded story…never generalize a race or class of person when trying to qualify or dismiss their talents or brainpower. It takes all kinds to make our world go round.
    And who would think a gay dude would be responsible for successfully renovating hundreds of homes?
    Crazy racist/sexist/homophobic world huh?
    ….We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming….

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  67. edupsyc,

    Thanks for a really great post!!
    I wish CC was populated by more people who really appreciate and love their neighborhoods instead of those who say nasty things without really knowing the area in question at all.

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  68. edupsyc,

    6 corners is depressing. It’s too busy of an intersection without much foot traffic to keep the little shops in business. The housing density just isnt there like any of the other 6 way intersections in the city – broadway/clark/diversy or ashland/lincon/belmont etc.

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  69. Well actually westloopelo, that azz handing (if you read closely) was BETWEEN Dan and Danny. Dan said a certain race didnt build stuff and Danny pointed out they did.

    so sir westloop, i now present you thee azz :)

    but now on to the serious stuff.

    the first annual WipeOut dinner party was a hit! we actually had more show up than planned and no cancellation. The appetizer bar was more decoration than taste but it was a smash and everyone loved it as a novelty (all that work and hardly anyone ate any of it). the main course we went eastern european and looking back may have been to heavy for a summer day.

    WestloopElo all in all it was great, and next WipeOut party i can schedule around your next visit to Chicago?

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  70. I’m glad this discussion is still going on.

    Homedelete: ashland/lincon/belmont was as depressing in the 90s as Cicero/IrvingPark/Milwaukee is today — it will just take some businesses opening up to reverse it.

    edupsyc, I’m hoping to move there or Jeffy Park someday

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  71. “ashland/lincon/belmont was as depressing in the 90s as Cicero/IrvingPark/Milwaukee is today”

    Yep. It’s *still* notsogreat. At least the first half block in every direction.

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  72. I did notice that the douche bag touch bar closed and became something else sports-bar related. I laughed a little.

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  73. “edupsyc, I’m hoping to move there or Jeffy Park someday”

    I was just in jeff park last night at our friends. (they live buy major and carmen) we walked our kids to the park at foster and austin. and wouldnt you know it on the way back we ended up talking to some random person watering their lawn for like 45 minutes. its a fricken great and peaceful chicago hood there.

    even though i love park in Portage park more than the ones in jeff park. i would rather live in Jeff park for the neighbors and peaceful streets.

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