Market Conditions: 10 Years of High End Inventory in South Barrington/Barrington Hills
Someone at Crain’s must be reading our minds (and our recent discussion) about how much inventory is on the market in the million dollar category.
The answer? A lot.
Crain’s defines the “high-end” to be $1.5 million and above. I think we were chattering about houses over $1 million the other day. But even above $1.5 million- the inventory levels are pretty devestating.
Ruth Ciaglia has shown a Barrington Hills mansion more than 40 times in the past year and a half.
The five-bedroom house, built in 2008 and listed for $3.7 million, has drawn two offers, but both times the deals fell through for the home at 36 Peraino Circle, says Ms. Ciaglia, of South Barrington-based ERA Countrywood Realty.
The buyers “disappear as soon as you get close,” she says.
South Barrington/Barrington Hills now has enough high end inventory to last 10 years and 6 months.
But if you think living in Lake Forest or the Gold Coast would insulate you- you would be wrong.
For the entire Chicago area, sales of single-family homes priced at $1 million or more have jumped up this year, compared to 2009. But the number of high-end properties coming to market is growing even faster, making the job of brokers like Ms. Ciaglia even more challenging.
After the two Barringtons, Burr Ridge has the next-biggest backlog, with 55 homes, or a 5½-year supply, followed by the city’s Gold Coast neighborhood with 47 properties, or a supply of five years and three months.
A balanced market will typically have six to eight months of inventory, according to one rule of thumb.
Other towns with an intimidating backlog of high-priced residences are west suburban Oak Brook, with 56 properties, or a 61-month supply, and north suburban Lake Forest, with 152 homes, or a 51-month supply.
“The houses just sit and sit and sit,” says Mark Kolar, managing broker of RE/MAX of Barrington. “There’s an excessive amount of supply and not enough buyers to soak it up.”
The areas with the lowest inventory are:
- Wilmette: 1 year
- Lincoln Park: 1 year and 4 months
- Winnetka: 1 year and 9 months
- Glenview: 1 year and 11 months
- Hinsdale: 1 year and 11 months
But even the “lowest” is still high by historical standards.
Chicago area swamped with high end backlog [Crain’s Chicago Business, Andrew Schroedter, October 14, 2010]
Real Estate bought between 2001 and 2008 …. dead man walking
You are right Mike HG, this “recession” has hit everyone who bought during this time.
In Oak Brook there are 31 properties above $2MM for sale. Only 3 have closed in the last year. Do the math. There are foreclosures/short sales galore there.
However, just try to find a nice SFH home in Chicago in a desirable school district close to public transportation for under $1MM. OK, I need to define nice. At least 3,000 sq ft, 4+ bedrooms, nice finishes, upgraded, standard lot or bigger, not on top of the el or on a busy street or with a weird layout or leaking like a sieve or moldy or weird design elements.
Get a nice SFH in the suburbs with 4 bedrooms and buy a 1 bedroom condo in the city. Cheaper than $1 million
Work in the “city” and stay there during the week or treck it home to the burbs.
I had a student at Fremd HS who’s father worked in Milwaukee where they had a 1 bedroom condo. He would stay there a few nights during the week and treck home on Fridays and other nights when he was needed.
“However, just try to find a nice SFH home in Chicago in a desirable school district close to public transportation for under $1MM.”
Gary, I’m assuming you’re referring to the Greenzone area. Because I can easily find quite a few examples in the outstanding school districts in Edgebrook and Norwood Park.
My opinion… much of the “market” for these homes (at least those in the low end of that range
…were people whio couldn’t really afford in the first place.
“However, just try to find a nice SFH home in Chicago in a desirable school district close to public transportation for under $1MM. OK, I need to define nice. At least 3,000 sq ft, 4+ bedrooms, nice finishes, upgraded, standard lot or bigger, not on top of the el or on a busy street or with a weird layout or leaking like a sieve or moldy or weird design elements.”
As Sabrina notes, you must mean close in or GZ (which are equivalent when you add your good school criterion). You also must mean 4+ bed total, as 4 bed up would be tough.
The school requirement is obviously the tough constraint. You can certainly find plenty of SFH in Bucktown/Wicker in the $800s range and even the $700s (esp if you can live with a shorter lot). If you’re picky about schools, there may just not be that many houses period, regardless of price range, on the market at any given time. But there have been homes in Bell in the $800s, not a lot but they have been out there and it’s not like they got snapped up right away.
“There are foreclosures/short sales galore there.”
Misinformation, Gary, does great harm to your reputation. There are NOT short sales/foreclosures galores in Oak Brook. While there may be a handful in the cheaper sections/subdivisions, I would bet any amount of money that there are less than 5-10% short sale/foreclosure in the OB/HC school district.
The article fails to mention the backlog or “high inventory” of buyers waiting on the sidelines…
“In Oak Brook there are 31 properties above $2MM for sale. Only 3 have closed in the last year. Do the math. There are foreclosures/short sales galore there. ”
Gary, of the 132 single family houses for sale in Oak Brook, only 2 are short sales and both of those are tear downs in the Downers Grove school district. Maybe you are predicting that there will be many short sales/foreclosures because of the high inventory of 2 million plus houses – but most of those people don’t have mortgages and have paid cash for their homes. Sorry to disappoint….
If the high end market is being devastated and there is this HUGE backlog of homes, then where are the bargains in these areas? I actually would be ok if all of this was true and prices were falling/low because I would buy up more property at a discount – but they’re not – prices are still are really high. Some of the people I know in this price range who are selling ARE having a hard time selling their houes (some have had their house on for 2 years) – but they are NOT in any financial distress and have no plans of lowering their prices. Again, I am not an ostrich burying my head in the ground and refusing to believe anything negative, I am just telling you that there is another side to the story (other than the numbers) that everyone needs to know to see the whole picture!!!
“Gary, I’m assuming you’re referring to the Greenzone area.”
Yeah, I should have added reasonable commute time/close in.
I think it’s pretty safe to say that $1.5 million dollar plus homes aren’t really worth the asking prices.
Clio – you’re right, there are buyers waiting on the sidelines. They’re waiting because there prices are too high. Lower prices will bring stronger demand.
Ok, I understand that cribchatter mainly focuses on the city of Chicago. But as a kid that grew up in the suburbs for the most part, I cannot imagine raising a family in the city. If you’re in your 20’s or 30’s and dont have children or the children are very young (under five), I can see living in the city. But once your children get older, why on earth would you fork over a ton of money to live in the city with a good elementary school. You could live in one of the burbs with a house twice the size, a big yard, a 3 car garage, with just as good of schools, MUCH lower crime, and a lower sales tax. If you play the cards right, you can live in an un-incorporate area that means lower property taxes near a good train line (ala the BNSF) that can get you downtown in 30 minutes. This is the same time as riding on the el for some of the green zone hoods. But then again, my point of view is slanted because I grew up in the burbs. I’m not trying to knock raising a family in the city, but I would like someone elses point of view on this or just a different opinion so I can get a better understanding. Heck I might even change my mind on the idea. Thanks.
“Gary, of the 132 single family houses for sale in Oak Brook, only 2 are short sales”
Clio,
Obviously you are correct. There are not that many short sales/foreclosures currently on the market. However, I have anecdotally seen several in the area in the past. Some are currently bank owned and not on the market and the entire Brittwood Creek development (undeveloped) went into foreclosure. My comment was not based upon real data but rather a sense that I had developed.
Also, the consumer price index rose a paltry 0.1%. There is no inflation in sight. With quantitative easing two one the way, interest rates are staying low for a while. Eurodollar futures (interest rate predictions) are as low as I have ever seen them.
“If the high end market is being devastated and there is this HUGE backlog of homes, then where are the bargains in these areas?”
By definition if there is a 10 year supply of homes in a community then there is a huge backglog. But the question of where the bargains are is a good one. Volume is negligible because there is a huge bid/ask spread right now. If people really want to sell they will have no choice but to cut their price or the flip side is that if people really want to buy they are going to have to pay up. I think more people will have to sell than people who have to buy.
Raising a family in the city with Gary’s quaifications will always be expensive because there are so few areas with homes that meet the qualifications. Hoity toity urban living with all the bells and whistles is an expensive propositon and has always been and will continue to be for the wealthy.
These $1.5 million dollar asking price homes that are sitting on the market are probably only worth $1.1M or so, but the owners are just too stubborn to believe that the value isn’t what it was in 2006 or 2007.
Mike, I agree that you can get more bang for the buck in the suburbs, but the reality is that the suburbs are pretty lame even the close in ones when it comes to shopping, restaurants, etc. Even though I live in Oak Park now, I probably go into the city twice a week for dinner because the restaurants in the burbs are so boring. However, I do like the fact we are in walking and biking distance to pretty mcuh everything Oak Park has to offer.
If money were no object, I would probably still live in the city. When we get to the point where we don’t have kids to worry about anymore, we will most likely move back to the city.
Also, people are finding out that huge yards, 4000 sqft homes with no architectural appeal, cost a lot to furnish and upkeep. The burbs can keep the McMansions. I will take a smaller well built 80 year old+ bungalow any day.
Mike HG: I also grew up in the burbs, but I like the idea of raising a child in the city limits. Some reasons are the walking culture, proximity to work places for spouse & I, and access to airports (I fly a lot).
The burbs get farther away from the city every year when utilizing anything but Metra. I ride the el and could easily switch back to riding Metra to work, but it’s the professional relationship building, overtime that I put in that makes reliance on the Metra next to impossible. Plus when a kid shows up I’m told from friends that I’m going to want to be with the kid more than commuting.
Schooling is much more bewildering in Chicago but manageable it would seem, but at a price (either proximity to city center or cost for tuition). If I were planning on 2,3,4 kids suburbs all the way – for one your life is your kids so why bother paying for being close to amenities & friends, plus schooling.
Life is simply different between the two locales and I really can’t condemn one or the other. Finally, I have a lot of friends (so, a safety network) within the greenzone & northside regions (do oriole & Rogers Park count as GZ now?) so moving to the burbs would all but relegate our interactions as virtual or planned get togethers. Even now I can still meet up with friends for random dinners / coffee – even if they have kids! Maybe it’s my friends in the burb’s problem but they don’t see each other nearly as often as the Chicagoans do. I think it’ll be cool to have my kids grow up with my friend’s kids.
“Raising a family in the city with Gary’s quaifications will always be expensive because there are so few areas with homes that meet the qualifications. ”
Indeed. But if you start stripping away criteria he listed that might not be super critical to you you can indeed find a good balance at a far cheaper price point. Housing, like any good, is about making compromises with the limited resources one has.
However I have a strong suspicion in this environment the longer one waits the less compromises one need make.
Mike HG,
to understand something, look to its opposite. I grew up in the city and cannot fathom living in the suburbs for that same reason, even though the benefits you mentioned are hard to dispute.
however, you can get a lot of what you specified if you are willing to live outside the greenzone. There are plenty of safe neighborhoods and even what I deem pseudo-suburbs within the city like Edison Park.
El versus Metra — after rush hour you’re limited to an hourly train schedule which I had a hard time adjusting to the six months i lived in Berwyn.
Like most city folk, I was determined to raise a family in the city. It’s totally doable until you factor in schools. My wife is a teacher and has worked in CPS…if the headlines about the CPS budget crisis don’t concern you, it’s important to know that the situation in most of the schools is really a mess. The schools are so underfunded that she routinely had to purchase and bring her own supplies…from books for the students to copy paper to toilet paper! Most of the desirable schools…Bell, Blaine, etc…and the rising stars…Coonley, Waters, etc…rely on fundraising efforts among the community for the resources they need. Further, the gang presence in the schools is far stronger than most people realize…kids start getting recruiting early on and my wife would often find students drawing gang symbols in their notebooks, even at the North Side schools. And all of the good public city high schools are selective enrollment and getting even more selective every year as demand increases for limited spots.
So, after considering all of these factors and the cost of real estate in these areas, it just made the most sense for us to consider Evanston and Oak Park, which IMO are more or less city-like communities that just never annexed into Chicago. Despite higher taxes, they offer far more bang for your buck and the El runs through both of them, making the commute to work or to see friends no different than if you were in the city itself. These are already desirable communities but I think their appeal is going to increase quite a bit more over the years as die-hard city people that can’t afford to live in the prime North Side areas with good schools look for an urban alternative that is more affordable.
For those people with regular 40-45 hour a week 8 to 5:30 type of work schedules, the Metra to the burbs can make sense. However, when you travel out of either airport, work late quite often on a 60 hour+ week schedule, the burbs suddenly don’t look so good. The alternative is living in the burbs and driving in, often at 5:30am in order to get the early parking and only have to deal with the commute one way (the way home).
“I actually would be ok if all of this was true and prices were falling/low because I would buy up more property at a discount – but they’re not – prices are still are really high.”
Certainly sales are slow (that’s the point of the article) in the higher end, and there are not a lot of observable prices, but to the extent we see them, don’t they support falling rather than flat or increasing prices? If you look at sales in the last year of $2MM+ properties in OB/Hinsdale (that appear to be resales rather than new construction or very major reno), prices seem down. I see a number that sold earlier in the decade and all sold below the earlier price, including prior sales from 2002-2003. I don’t see any that sold above an earlier 2000s price (except where the earlier sale seemed like it was prob for the lot).
(This is of course separate from your prior claim that there weren’t price declines in OB regardless of price tier, which was already disproven by G.)
“Also, people are finding out that huge yards, 4000 sqft homes with no architectural appeal, cost a lot to furnish and upkeep. The burbs can keep the McMansions. I will take a smaller well built 80 year old+ bungalow any day.”
russ, good words and i second them. how many suburban and some city mcmansion homes have rooms that are never used and that thrid or forth bath that is just a museum piece as nobody uses it.
one thing though i hate with all my passion 80 year+ bungalows closets really any old houses closets.
“Most of the desirable schools…Bell, Blaine, etc…and the rising stars…Coonley, Waters, etc…rely on fundraising efforts among the community for the resources they need.”
As JMM has pointed out, Sears does ~$500k in fundraising annually, so it’s not just the city schools.
And it’s funny that you note the gang presence–via drawing of gang signs–in CPS but are considering ETHS and OPRF as alternatives–I think you may be having a “grass is greener” issue.
“that thrid or forth bath that is just a museum piece as nobody uses it”
Trust me groove–if you had a 3d bathroom, it would get used. Unless they were all on the same floor, for some reason.
I’m talking about gang presence in the CPS elementary schools. And my wife has observed classrooms in both Oak Park and CPS elem/middle schools…there is a huge difference.
Also, the CPS fundraising in to just keep the schools functional. I doubt that North Shore schools really need the extra funds…
ChrisM,
great write-up, one thing though gangs are in oak park and evanston schools too and in the past 7 years have gotten bad. not to the LEVEL of CPS, but its there.
and me being a product of the CPS system say to you parents HAVE A PLAN FOR HS DONT NOT SEND THEM TO A CPS HS.
oh and dont think for a second in the selective enrollment or “test in” schools there are not gangs there. they are there, they are.
“observed classrooms in both Oak Park and CPS elem/middle schools”
What northside elem schools? And “northside” means, to me, east of the river and south of Foster (maybe Lawrence). If you’re talking about elsewhere in the city, sure, but that’s hardly a revelation.
Moving to the suburbs becomes even more difficult if one partner works in the city outside of the downtown. Metra becomes useless because commuting time increases significantly with transfers. I hear that the edison park to lincoln park is nearly an hour taking the metra to clybourn (and then a shuttle) or driving in traffic in the 8am rush hour. Ergh. That’s why the blue line and highway access in old irving is so important to me.
also heed my words people,
MOVE AS CLOSE TO YOUR JOB AS POSSIBLE, your life and mood will be better!
Thanks, Groove. I agree with you about the gang presence…is is absolutely in Evanston and Oak Park (arguably more so in Evanston), but there is a big difference between the extent of the presence relative to Chicago and the degree to which it affects the environment within the school.
Within your boundaries, she has observed in Waters and Ravenswood. The other GZ area schools include Sabin, De Diego, and Peirce (where she student taught).
“The article fails to mention the backlog or “high inventory” of buyers waiting on the sidelines”
So where are all these sidelines buyers living????? Maybe in their parents basement….
“Trust me groove–if you had a 3d bathroom, it would get used. Unless they were all on the same floor, for some reason.”
you know what our basment bathroom only gets used during big parties and when wife is in the bathroom and i had a beer and TBK night.
i do see three deucers on one level in the burbs it dont know why one would do that.
“I doubt that North Shore schools really need the extra funds…”
Yes CPS is grossly underfunded. However, all schools in IL are somewhat dependent on state funding. Anyone looked at the state budget lately? Scary. If you think suburban schools are safe from funding issues you are delusional.
Oh…add Jahn to that list of North Side schools.
“This is of course separate from your prior claim that there weren’t price declines in OB regardless of price tier, which was already disproven by G.)”
Uhhh – he hasn’t disproven me at all – the homes that actually sold for less than the mid-2000s prices were not in the OB/HC school district and were teardowns in one of the few “cheaper” subdivisions. The homes in the OB/HC school district have not lost value – also remember that “G” was only talking about homes that were bought after 2005 and sold thereafter – the majority of the sales in oak brook were houses that were bought BEFORE 2005 and absolutely did sell for a profit. My only point being that real estate is area specific – comparing different parts of Oak Brook is like comparing different buildings in the Gold Coast.
“i do see three deucers on one level in the burbs it dont know why one would do that.”
For when the kids are in HS and wife is getting ready to go to work/whatever at the same time as groove, lil groove and lil groovette are getting ready for work/school, so there’s a br available for groove and lil groove to fight over, since the women folk won’t share. Hypothetically.
Amazing….. a thread about suburban homes ends up on CPS chatter……
“i do see three deucers on one level in the burbs it dont know why one would do that.”
If you’re not too space constrained, why not? Makes easier when you have houseguests. Suppose you have 4 bd up and 2 kids. Guest is not going to use the master. Lot easier if there’s a separate guest bath in terms of congestion and not having to tidy up the kids bath. Not critical, but if you have the room, why not?
“but there is a big difference between the extent of the presence relative to Chicago and the degree to which it affects the environment within the school.”
totally agree, for elementary schools. but same could be said about the yuppie chicago schools, there is a gang presence there but level and the enviroment negate the maniac latin ganster diciples and the 4 corner huslter tags in a note book
*only the elm level
“So where are all these sidelines buyers living????? Maybe in their parents basement….”
yes, or they are renting… someone should really write an article or do a survey and show that the backlog of buyers WILL start buying once the economy picks up. Mark my words, within 5 years the headlines will read: “housing shortage drives up home prices” or “lack of inventory in city/suburbs drives up prices”….
“If you think suburban schools are safe from funding issues you are delusional.”
but, but, but … cognitive dissonance setting in … help!
“add Jahn to that list of … [Waters and Ravenswood]”
Okay, Jahn is notgood still, as I always note, and may not yet be on the way to turning. And Waters and Ravenswood are not full of neighborhood kids, either, but have definitely been heading that way. There is a *good* reason that principals tout low numbers of non-neighborhood kids at their schools.
“Uhhh – he hasn’t disproven me at all – the homes that actually sold for less than the mid-2000s prices were not in the OB/HC school district and were teardowns in one of the few “cheaper” subdivisions. The homes in the OB/HC school district have not lost value – also remember that “G” was only talking about homes that were bought after 2005 and sold thereafter – the majority of the sales in oak brook were houses that were bought BEFORE 2005 and absolutely did sell for a profit.”
Don’t forget the ones that haven’t sold. Those haven’t come down in price at all!
Also: (1) as you well know, he disproved what you said but now you’re changing what you said and (2) take a look at $2MM+ sales in OB/H–they are selling below pre-2005 (nominal) prices.
“…..the entire Brittwood Creek development (undeveloped) went into foreclosure”
Interesting… this was a planned subdivision of ?20 homes. Lots that were 1-2 acres were originally offered for 1.5-2.5 million (yes, that is JUST the land). These lots were finally reduced earlier this year to 700k-2million and more and 33% sold. I was strongly considering buying one of these lots. If the subdivision/developer goes into foreclosure, what happens to the people who bought the lots already? BTW, the roads/sewers have already been put in – nobody has yet begun construction, though.
“If you think suburban schools are safe from funding issues you are delusional.”
You’re right…all school districts depend on state funding to some degree, but it varies. I recall reading an article that showed the lower income suburbs being far more dependent on state funding than the higher income suburbs that are flush with cash from property taxes. Really, all schools, except for the expensive elite privates, are facing funding issues…the Archdiocese of Chicago school system is another good example.
“If the subdivision/developer goes into foreclosure, what happens to the people who bought the lots already?”
They’re out any deposits made for construction, won’t see any of the (if any) community amenities built/finished and need a new builder. Other than that, not much.
DZ,
less is more brother, i am actually surprised you are not going with that motto. i am suprised that this trend isnt the norm now with all the tree huggers, zipcars, living close to the EL for commute, and walkability.
the large mansion on 3 acres is so wasteful and unneeded. really does a three person house hold need a 4/3.5 homes with a living room and a family and a media room and a basment play room?
how about this one TV room and spend some f’ing time together as a family. maybe then little timmy wont feel so alone and shoot half his school.
ok i am going way of track i will stop here
“Don’t forget the ones that haven’t sold. Those haven’t come down in price at all!”
DZ, that is my point – everyone on this site is predicting doom and gloom and a glut of shortsales/foreclosures in high end real estate – however, as I pointed out there are NO real bargains out there. Why? Because these homeowners are NOT underwater and can afford to ride this whole housing recession out. Why is this important? Because those people who are waiting to buy in these areas and are waiting for the bottom to fall oout on prices are going to be very disappointed because these sellers don’t have to (and won’t) lower their prices. They can wait a few years until the housing market improves….. and I think the TRUE buyers who are actually looking at these higher end homes are going to start realizing this and are then going to start buying.
Bottom line: rich people who live in this high end homes (and not the speculators or phonies) are NOT going to budge on their prices. The sooner the people interested in these types of homes realize this, the better off they will be!!
“For when the kids are in HS and wife is getting ready to go to work/whatever at the same time as groove, lil groove and lil groovette are getting ready for work/school, so there’s a br available for groove and lil groove to fight over, since the women folk won’t share. Hypothetically.”
ok valid point, but the bickering and fight for position brings a family closer if you really want to dig deep
“the large mansion on 3 acres is so wasteful and unneeded. really does a three person house hold need a 4/3.5 homes with a living room and a family and a media room and a basment play room?”
Truer words were never before spoken…. unfortunately groove, the media/society has everyone fooled that if you live in a nice mansion/estate, your life will be like the rockefellers/vanderbilts, etc. – obviously this is not true. That being said, having grown up in a cramped condo on the south side of chicago with 3 sisters and 2.5 caretakers (3 bedroom condo) and only 2 bathrooms I can tell you that space has tremendous benefits!!!
“Bottom line: rich people who live in this high end homes (and not the speculators or phonies) are NOT going to budge on their prices.”
As I’m sure you’ll agree, they prob should raise them another 25 percent.
“having grown up in a cramped condo on the south side of chicago with 3 sisters and 2.5 caretakers (3 bedroom condo) and only 2 bathrooms I can tell you that space has tremendous benefits!!!”
i will concede that women to bathroom ratio should be one to one up to 3. same goes that it should be a ratio of 2 closets per woman.
wow that was sexist, but i am ok with that 🙂
DZ,
As I mentioned before, I think OB/Hinsdale is a GREAT place to invest. I personally wish I had MORE real estate in these areas. For this reason, I am actually hoping that the bottom falls out of the market here as I would love to buy many more homes. I know that the homes that I own would suffer value loss – but that is only a paper loss – and I can afford to keep all of them for many years (I have no intention of selling any of my properties in OB/Hinsdale). So, when I am talking about ob/hinsdale not losing value, I am not bragging or trying to convince anyone – I am making those statements because I am desperately trying to find bargains – and I just cannot in these areas (same goes for Kenilworth and Winnetka – I troll those areas looking for bargains and I am coming up empty!!).
On city versus burbs, for me it is completely social and cultural. Not sure why you think your social life doesn’t matter any more once you have kids, but for my family it is super important. We stay sane and happy precisely because we haven’t given up all aspects of our former child-free life. We can easily meet up with friends after work, or go out for a drink after the kids go to bed. If we lived in the burbs I can’t imagine motivating to drive an hour to meet a friend for a drink at 9pm on a week night, but I do it pretty regularly when it’s minutes away and I can still be in bed by 11.
My husband and I both grew in the city, and are raising our kids in the city because our friends and family are all nearby. As someone else mentioned, I love raising my kids with my friends kids. We take advantage of all the free concerts and events and museums, and the park district classes are phenomenal.
Schools are the big issue….Don’t have a good answer there. I would give it all up and move to the burbs before I would pay private school tuition for 2 or 3 or more kids, but I’m certainly going to do my best to get the kids into a great public school, we’ll find out next year how that goes.
Clio…are you looking for properties in these areas that you can buy-rehab-sell or buy-hold?
“I am making those statements because I am desperately trying to find bargains – and I just cannot in these areas”
So something like this that sells for about 10 percent off the 2002 nominal price is not a good deal, when in your view the true price is still at bubble levels?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Hinsdale/211-N-Bruner-St-60521/home/18031835
Yeah, I’m at that ratio groove.
Selu…you have great points. My wife and I value the same things and tried to find a good compromise. For example, we love the free concerts at Millennium Park during the summer…and having a house right off the Green Line in Oak Park allows us to enjoy that just as easily as our current place off the Blue Line in Logan Square. I would love to buy a SFH in the Bell or Lincoln school districts…if only I could afford it. We’re currently in the Darwin school district area in Logan Square…unlike the rising North Side schools, I haven’t seen any real promising developments at the schools near us…and we would try to turn it around a la Nettlehorst but we really just don’t have the time necessary to do that. Otherwise, it’s private school (we’re not interested in religious schools) or take a gamble on the CPS lottery.
“Clio…are you looking for properties in these areas that you can buy-rehab-sell or buy-hold?”
I am only thinking of buying/holding. That being said, I have bought tear downs in hinsdale, put 50k into them to make them rentable and am renting them (and plan to do so for the next several years).
Yeah Chris M, Oak Park would be the only suburb I’d consider if schools don’t work out in city.
“So something like this that sells for about 10 percent off the 2002 nominal price is not a good deal, when in your view the true price is still at bubble levels?”
10% depreciation/accumulated-maintenance seems about right, as I bet they hadn’t replaced any mechanicals/appliances in the 8 years since new.
Those taxes are *nuts*.
Clio…just asking because I’ve come across some distressed listings in the North Shore that are pretty cheap for the area and that could probably be rehabbed and probably sold for a profit if done by a person who knows what they’re doing. For example, there was recently a SFH foreclosure in Winnetka on the market for $281k.
“So something like this that sells for about 10 percent off the 2002 nominal price is not a good deal, when in your view the true price is still at bubble levels?”
DZ – there are those percentages again!!! You have to look at the individual property – Do I think 211 N. Bruner was a deal at 2 million when the owners bought at 2.2 million on 2002? No, I don’t for this particular property because the previous owners bought this property brand new and there is always a premium paid for a brand new house. Had this house not been brand new (but 10-15 years old), it probably would have sold for 1.8 million in 2002. Therefore, it really isn’t that good of a deal.
“For example, there was recently a SFH foreclosure in Winnetka on the market for $281k”
Chris, do you have a “dummy email” or site to contact you – I would be interested in those type of properties but, despite having lived in Kenilworth for a couple of years when I was a kid, I don’t have any connections to that area.
Email is chris at 312agent dot com
Also, DZ, when I was talking about lack of price depreciation, I was referring primarily to OB houses in the OB/HC school (although all of Hinsdale and OB have fared very well in the real estate downturn).
I’m sure if you looked hard enough, most of you could find a suburb that was acceptable, and I don’t mean only Oak Park or Evanston. Choices in life aren’t as stark as Chicago or nowhere else. Not every suburb is as bland as Plainfield.
“Not every suburb is as bland as Plainfield.”
yes they are
clio spewed “Bottom line: rich people who live in this high end homes (and not the speculators or phonies) are NOT going to budge on their prices. The sooner the people interested in these types of homes realize this, the better off they will be!!”
Oak Brook Brook Forest Elem/Hinsdale Central HS active listing examples:
Address List Price Orig List Date Mkt Time(days) Orig LP %reduction
34 CHATHAM $1,099,900 4/17/2009 547 $1,350,000 -19%
38 SHEFFIELD $1,750,000 8/19/2008 552 $2,395,000 -27%
1108 Midwest Club $1,895,000 4/10/2009 554 $2,100,000 -10%
68 Forest Gate $1,574,000 3/10/2009 582 $1,843,000 -15%
61 Forest Gate $1,274,000 3/9/2009 753 $1,493,000 -15%
55 Breakenridge Farm $1,995,000 2/29/2008 943 $3,499,000 -43%
411 FOX TRAIL $1,999,000 10/12/2009 1,177 $2,275,000 -12%
3401 ADAMS $1,650,000 4/23/2008 1,580 $2,499,000 -34%
3015 LINCOLN $5,750,000 1/21/2009 573 $5,750,000 0%
1715 Midwest Club $2,349,000 9/25/2009 386 $2,589,000 -9%
1106 Midwest Club $2,395,000 7/16/2009 388 $2,690,000 -11%
1801 Midwest Club $2,250,000 9/14/2009 390 $2,600,000 -13%
43 BAYBROOK $2,649,000 9/17/2009 394 $3,159,000 -16%
1001 MIDWEST CLUB $3,295,000 3/18/2009 578 $3,995,000 -18%
3404 ADAMS $2,649,000 6/4/2008 636 $2,849,000 -7%
404 BRIDGEWAY $2,815,000 11/3/2008 651 $2,999,000 -6%
118 SAINT FRANCIS $2,999,000 11/20/2008 675 $3,695,000 -19%
707 DEER TRAIL $5,600,000 7/24/2008 814 $6,900,000 -19%
3516 MADISON $3,695,000 5/20/2008 1,067 $3,950,000 -6%
308 OAK BROOK $2,849,000 1/25/2008 1,069 $3,495,000 -18%
G: How are you pulling this data? Are you exporting it from the MLS?
Chris, I may email you at some point as well, perhaps when we get really serious about buying.
You need to get out more.
“#Sonies on October 15th, 2010 at 10:32 am
“Not every suburb is as bland as Plainfield.”
yes they are”
“
Welcome back, G!!!
“G: How are you pulling this data? Are you exporting it from the MLS?”
Methinks YOU need to worry about Chris M and not others.
DZ: Thanks…and even if you aren’t serious about buying yet, just let me know if you would like one or more auto MLS searches setup…you’ll get notifications whenever properties that meet your criteria come on the market or drop in price. Once the search is setup, I would just wait for you to contact me with any questions. I have a bunch of prospective buyers that are setup like this…just monitoring the market to see where prices are going and watching out for any potential deals.
The michael Jordan of cribchatter “G” is back. Were you trapped in a mine? (Too soon?)
G – budging a couple of hundred thousand dollars on a 2-3 million dollar house is just a small shift. When I think of “budging on price” I am talking over 35% off – and true, there ARE people that are budging, but the MAJORITY are not moving on price.
G. . . the data-driven bitch slap returns to cc. . . I stand in awe once again.
Thanks for posting again– this place needs some facts to police the rhetoric!
(Plus, I’d never have seen the 3015 Lincoln Rd place otherwise. . . what an awesomely entertaining listing 07636428 )
“Plus, I’d never have seen the 3015 Lincoln Rd place otherwise”
Never clicked thru any of the references to kingwanted.com that have been posted here from time to time?
G – despite our differences in opinion, you ARE AWESOME with your numbers/response time. You should use You blow any agent/broker I have ever worked with out of the water!!!
“(Plus, I’d never have seen the 3015 Lincoln Rd place otherwise. . . what an awesomely entertaining listing 07636428 )”
This is one of my neighbor’s houses that I posted about a couple of months ago.
“why on earth would you fork over a ton of money to live in the city with a good elementary school. You could live in one of the burbs with a house twice the size, a big yard, a 3 car garage, with just as good of schools, MUCH lower crime, and a lower sales tax.”
Walking to work in 10 minutes beats 1hour plus commute via car, rail etc. I don’t need/ want a 2000+ square foot place and I have several parks outside my door. No need for a car when public transportation and a Zipcar are fine. Also, sales tax might be lower but property taxes are just as bad if not worse in some suburbs. I can see the argument on crime and schools, but I don’t want sheltered kids, who don’t know how to ride a public bus or have never seen a homeless person.
“Never clicked thru any of the references to kingwanted.com that have been posted here from time to time?”
*chortle*
Apologies, as always, for my shortcomings in reading comprehension and/or cc digestion.
(WTF with the lot that castle is on? Seems like a huge shortcoming, especially considering the options available at half the listing price.)
“This is one of my neighbor’s houses that I posted about a couple of months ago.”
Ah yes, this explains it . . .
I go back to ignoring the suburbs now!
“You need to get out more. ”
nah I still haven’t done everything in Chicago yet (its a work in progress)
“(WTF with the lot that castle is on? Seems like a huge shortcoming, especially considering the options available at half the listing price.)”
You are right – it is an eyesore to the neighborhood!!! Most of us live on 2-4 acres. That house is on a lot that is just under/over and acre. I think that the builder thought he was being smart because it was the cheapest piece of land in the area (I think he paid 800 or 950k for the land in mid 2000s -G? need your help). Unfortunately, the end result was this monstrosity which is not selling. Oh, and the 5.7 million dollar price is the cost of the house UNFINISHED!!!
As for price drops on expensive properties, there’s another blog where the blog proprietor runs through the sales on the North Shore (Wilmette, Winnetka, Kenilworth, Glencoe) each month and compares the listing to sale prices:
http://activerain.com/blogs/realpro53
Unfortunately, she’s inconsistent about how she presents the info each month. But that said, there were a lot of months where the average sale prices would be 20% or more off list. And of course in some cases the list prices had been reduced from the initial asking prices.
“why on earth would you fork over a ton of money to live in the city with a good elementary school. You could live in one of the burbs with a house twice the size, a big yard, a 3 car garage, with just as good of schools, MUCH lower crime, and a lower sales tax.”
Answer: traffic and commute time.
It is worse than the crime in many people’s opinions. Metra is ok but it is at capacity, has service issues and does not drop always people off that close to their place of employement.
The solution to traffic and commute time is to get a job in major employment areas in the suburbs i.e. naperville, schauburg, rosemont, oak brook, elk grove business park, etc and then live within a 20 minute drive from there…
However that’s so much easier said than done given our economy and state of employment.
“Chris, do you have a “dummy email” or site to contact you – I would be interested in those type of properties but, despite having lived in Kenilworth for a couple of years when I was a kid, I don’t have any connections to that area.”
Clio, do you just make stuff up? Now, in addition to living in Atherton, you “grew up” in Kenilworth?
“The solution to traffic and commute time is to get a job in major employment areas in the suburbs i.e. naperville, schauburg, rosemont, oak brook, elk grove business park, etc and then live within a 20 minute drive from there…”
Works for corporate, less so for professional services. And if you switch careers or employers, your options are limited without having to pick up family and move.
“Clio, do you just make stuff up? Now, in addition to living in Atherton, you “grew up” in Kenilworth?”
No – absolutely not. I have never lied about anything on this site. My parents moved to kenilworth when I was a kid (because of the schools). We lived on east melrose for 2-3 years but I didn’t adjust well with the other kids and we were not as rich as the other people around us so my parents decided to send us to the U.of C. lab schools (where I lived until I graduated college). Boston is where I did my graduate work (Harvard) and Atherton was where I did my post graduate work (stanford). Along the way, I made money in real estate. There, now you have way more than you probably wanted to know……
“but I didn’t adjust well with the other kids”
Shocking.
Maybe I’m just ghetto, but I shared a 1.5 bath home with 4 sisters and a brother and two parents growing up. I’m not dying to replicate that, but same sex siblings are totally capable of using the bathroom at the same time. Girls can do makeup/hair in their bedroom. For most of the history of humanity we’ve gotten along with very unprivate bathing conditions. I think the 1 bath for every bedroom +1 for guests convention is ridiculous, except maybe in the super high-end (3 mill plus) properties. Who wants to clean 7 toilets w/out live-in staff?
Good point, Peg. I grew up with one sibling and two parents, and we had just one bathroom. Again, I wouldn’t want to replicate that situation, but I never found it to be too harsh of an upbringing.
That said, can you please put my mind at ease amount my decision to buy a two bedroom (I have one child and may or may not have another in about 2 years)!
“G – despite our differences in opinion”
I don’t see where you disagreed with me. Your responses to me have consisted entirely of changing your argument, ad hominems or declaring a dead thread.
“That said, can you please put my mind at ease amount my decision to buy a two bedroom (I have one child and may or may not have another in about 2 years)!”
bunk beds were invented for this very reason 8)
“Your responses to me have consisted entirely of changing your argument, ad hominems or declaring a dead thread.”
I’ve never changed my arguments – the truth is the truth – I have no need to change my argument (yes, I did need to clarify things – ie OB/HC segment of OB). The “dead thread” post was to save the rest of the folk here from reading this idiotic back-and-forth. In terms of the ad hominems, I’m sorry if you took offense – but I never insulted you to invalidate your points. Ok – enough of this nonsense –
City vs. Burbs – am I deluded (possibly) to think that living in a walkable area might be easier than being car reliant with children? I see the trasferring and folding of stuff and carseats and buckles and harnesses vs a stroller that can just be pushed everywhere… True you can get walkable in the burbs just as easily as you can end up car reliant in the city but I grew up with suburbanites who were scared of the city, seriously had no idea how to hail a cab or read a public trans map. I have wondered if the insulated suburban expecrience has contributed to the stories you hear of young kids killed in vacation (thinking Natalee Holloway here) when they didn’t know how to be out of their element.
Not that city living is a cure-all it just seems easier to run across a very broad section of the human condition (yes, oak Park and Evanston approx that too but I just don’t like the towns). Although, I think Roscoe Village undermines my entire position…
While we’re on the topic of the burbs… has anyone else noticed that people that live out there are like a million times more scared of everything? its hard to explain, but I have an inlaw that won’t feed her kids fish because of mercury, chicken because of salmonella, beef because of mad cow disease, she even went out of the way to mention other precautions she takes in her daily life as to “not get sued” and this isn’t just one person, I have noticed many others that just live in fear… could it be from watching too much news? or what, this is very puzzling to me as living in fear is no way to live life!
“I have noticed many others that just live in fear… could it be from watching too much news? or what, this is very puzzling to me as living in fear is no way to live life”
sonies, it is very simple – it is a selection bias/phenomenon. Generally, people who CHOOSE to live in the suburbs may be less adventerous and more cautious (not necessarily in a good way) than people who choose to live in the city. Also, a lot of people in the suburbs were born and raised there and were never adventerous enough to venture into the city. So it is not the suburbs which make their residents fearful, it is the residents themselves who have that particular disposition who choose to live in the suburbs.
If one can live in a big, fancy house in east Evanston, Wilmette, H Park, etc. (i.e., within a couple blocks of the lake, and within 8 or so blocks of the villages and Metra stops), then sure, living in a burb while working in the Loop could be appealing. Otherwise, the whole point of living “in Chicago” is to live IN Chicago.
If I had a nickel for every time I’ve met someone who says, “I’m from NY” or “I’m from Chicago,” only to later disclose that they actually grew up on Long Island or Barrington, respectively, well, let’s just say I’d be rolling with Clio and having $4,000/mo maintenance costs at my house.
Either live in the city, or move near an ocean or some big mountains.
1) You have to remember that during much of my youth and during most of my parents much of life in the city was a dirty dumpy crappy dingy place and most people left. You know how you walk around the city and you see those houses with the fake stone looking gray siding from the 1940’s and 1950’s? a lot of the city looked just like that, sort of half run down and crappy. So to knock the suburbs or call them part of a suburban existence is just kind of naive because that’s how most middle class people grew up.
http://chicagocrimescenes.blogspot.com/2009/07/138-years-of-murder-in-chicago.html
Look at this chart for the murder rate of Chicago and notice how it jumps significantly during the 1960’s and remained elevated until the 1990’s when suburbanites like me from all the midwest returned to the city for gentrification.
2) Natalee Holloway was a high school senior killed by a serial killer in a tourist destination. i don’t think that has anything to do with a middle class suburbanite being out of their element.
“I have wondered if the insulated suburban expecrience has contributed to the stories you hear of young kids killed in vacation (thinking Natalee Holloway here) when they didn’t know how to be out of their element.”
“I didn’t adjust well with the other kids and we were not as rich as the other people around us so my parents decided to send us to the U.of C. lab schools (where I lived until I graduated college)”
So your parents bought a house they couldn’t afford and then moved? Seems like a harbinger of your real estate dealings to come.
“Either live in the city, or move near an ocean or some big mountains”
There is also a subset of people who would LOVE to live in the city but have to live in the suburbs because of work. (sad emoticon) – I am too computer/internet illeterate to understand how to make one.
“That said, can you please put my mind at ease amount my decision to buy a two bedroom (I have one child and may or may not have another in about 2 years)!”
Okay, we bought a 2-bdrm with 2 kids (one was on the way)/2 parents. We have space and plans for expanding, but knew going into it that we wouldn’t have the money to do it for about 3 years, so in the meantime it’s a 2/1 (Will be a 4/2).
Our experience so far has been fine. The kids sharing a room is not a problem at all, I might have them share even if we had another bedroom or two. There was a little adjustment at first but they are close and enjoy the company, and the older one keeps the younger one entertained when he wakes up too early letting mommy and daddy get extra sleep. It’s pretty cute.
The biggest drawback is that with them sharing a room there is less space in there to store all their stuff, so we have to dedicate a portion of our dining room to toy storage/play space. We have tried to handle it tastefully, but there is still a large kid zone in our main living space.
Also, we had to put a work space/desk in our bedroom because we need a place to work where we can close the door for privacy sometimes. All in all it’s manageable, but I will really happy when we expand.
“If I had a nickel for every time I’ve met someone who says, “I’m from NY” or “I’m from Chicago,” only to later disclose that they actually grew up on Long Island or Barrington, respectively”
oh gosh when i was at UofI i hated the idoits i would ask, “where you from” they would say “chicago” i would be happy and ask what part and get “downers grove, PALITINE, Vernon Hills, etc.” i would laugh at them in and say thats not chicago.
the best was the Tools that had the nerve while i was enjoying my laugh to retort “so then where you from” and i would respond “grew up around logan sq and NW side but before i came to school here i lived on the west side” and what ever “street cred” mr. glenbrook north was trying portray in the sticks of Chambana/urbaign was quickly squashed.
“Okay, we bought a 2-bdrm with 2 kids (one was on the way)/2 parents. We have space and plans for expanding, but knew going into it that we wouldn’t have the money to do it for about 3 years, so in the meantime it’s a 2/1 (Will be a 4/2).”
If I’m not mistaken, I believe anonny is looking at 2/2s in Lincoln Park…is this correct? Based on your plans for expansion, I think it’s safe to assume you have a 2/1 single family home. I think having a 2 bedroom place with room to expand is ideal…but a 2 bedroom condo with no room to expand and 2 kids may or may not work…guess it depends if there is a den for the play area, how large the rooms are, etc.
“oh gosh when i was at UofI i hated the idoits i would ask, “where you from” they would say “chicago” i would be happy and ask what part and get “downers grove, PALITINE, Vernon Hills, etc.” i would laugh at them in and say thats not chicago.”
Hell, I have it happen now, with people currently living in the city. idiot: “I grew up in Chicago” me: “where” idiot: “Buffalo Grove”. Actually had someone say “DeKalb” once.
Groove: heh I’m sure we all have those types of hits. I’ve come to terms with the ‘I’m from Chicago’ statement the farther away I am (Chambana definitely isn’t far enough). The two tops for me were when I pressed for neighborhood I got back: North of Gurnee, and ST LOUIS!!!
That was just awesome. Admittedly I was in Hong Kong for the St. Louis person but comon – I had already identified as being from Chicago before they said they were as well.
“idiot: “I grew up in Chicago” me: “where” idiot: “Buffalo Grove”. Actually had someone say “DeKalb” once.”
the new mayor (chico or rahmbo) should institute a new law on people like that that we get one free nut kick for every mile outside city limits they actually live. (poor dekalb guy)
wicker,
in hong kong, st. louis guy gets a pass, one for admitting he lives in st louis out loud and two for seriously making a decision to live in st louis and still say it out loud.
Groove: Duly noted. That exemption will be put into the new law.
I hate to admit this, but I have a god friend who is from [debating whether to even say this] Princeton, IL who claims he is from Chicago. He even has a tattoo on his arm that says “Sweet Home Chicago.” He did live in Chicago for like 2 or 3 years, but now he is back in the middle of the sticks.
PermaBear,
a Blue ribbon committee is being assembled for a revision to the punishment of the law for people like your good friend.
“a Blue ribbon committee is being assembled for a revision to the punishment of the law for people like your good friend.”
A better punishment would be requiring them to live for 12 months (24 for Debkalb/Princeton; 60 for St Lou) in Englewood or Roseland or something.
“A better punishment would be requiring them to live for 12 months (24 for Debkalb/Princeton; 60 for St Lou) in Englewood or Roseland or something”
The penultimate punishment would be to have them spend 5 minutes with Clio!!!!
OT but for anyone who cares to see a piece of the shadow inventory:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3825-N-Milwaukee-Ave-60641/unit-B/home/12775031
Relisted today at $225k;
Eviction of mortgagor filed in June 2010;
Order of possession entered in September 2009
Judgment by default entered in May 2009;
Foreclosure filed in October 2008;
Last payment estimated 4 or 5 months before filing i.e. May or June 2008.
Purchase price in August 2000 was $285,000
Mortgage in August 2000 was $258,000
If you think there are deals today, there will be even better deals tomorrow.
(G gets credit for that adage which I’ve used plenty of times since)
3825 N Milwaukee Unit B
2 bed townhome w/ all the bells & whistles. Granite counters, fireplace, Deck & much more. Come see this wonderful TH today! Buyer responsible for any/all compliances, taxes, room count, escrows, etc if required. All inspections/systems tests are at buyer’s expense. Offers require pre-approval & EM due in certified funds at acceptance. Addendum required after seller accepts offer. Cash deals require proof of funds.
$285,000 in 2000 as the last sale
Listed for $225,000 today
Its not really shadow inventory anymore now that it’s listed but you get the idea
good weekend folks
“oh gosh when i was at UofI i hated the idoits i would ask, “where you from” they would say “chicago” i would be happy and ask what part and get “downers grove, PALITINE, Vernon Hills, etc.” i would laugh at them in and say thats not chicago.”
Funny. I went to college outside of the midwest. In contrast, I remember telling people that I grew up in a small town north of Chicago that only had about 2000 residents, and didn’t even have its own gas station or grocery store.
“I hate to admit this, but I have a god friend who is from [debating whether to even say this] Princeton, IL”
You’re friends with a god? And one from Princeton, IL, no less!
:-}
“The penultimate punishment would be to have them spend 5 minutes with Clio!!!!”
uhhh- people would LOVE to get 5 minutes alone with me!!!
““…..the entire Brittwood Creek development (undeveloped) went into foreclosure”
Interesting… this was a planned subdivision of ?20 homes. Lots that were 1-2 acres were originally offered for 1.5-2.5 million (yes, that is JUST the land). These lots were finally reduced earlier this year to 700k-2million and more and 33% sold. I was strongly considering buying one of these lots. If the subdivision/developer goes into foreclosure, what happens to the people who bought the lots already? BTW, the roads/sewers have already been put in – nobody has yet begun construction, though.”
It’s unfortunate that CC won’t let me post when I’m mobile – spam filter. Anyway, more on Brittwood Creek. It’s a really dicey story.
Only one lot ever sold in that development. A year and a half ago some poor sucker paid $1.5MM for a lot there. The development was taken over by the bank. Just before the foreclosure suit was concluded the developer started to slash prices on the lots. I actually had a contract for a buyer on one lot. The developer was not being honest with his listing agent, who had no idea the foreclosure was about to be concluded. In fact, the listing agent was led to believe that new investors had come in to rescue the developer and the bank had been called off. They then entered into a number of contracts with closing dates set for the final court date for the foreclosure?!?!?!? Made no sense to me but some people speculated he was trying to demonstrate to the bank that he could raise cash. The bank took over the development and all the contracts were canceled and the earnest money returned. The bank could have easily sold the lots off but wanted to sell the entire development to someone else who would sell the lots. Then out of the blue some guy shows up claiming to have bought the development from the bank. Clearly he had some connection to the bank because he knew things that he only could have gotten from the bank. But there was something not quite right and people were questioning whether or not he really owned the property or maybe he only had an option on the property.
The end result is that no one is going to buy those lots right now because everything is in limbo and if you build who knows when you would have any neighbors.
As an interesting side note…the developer’s personal residence is for sale in Oak Brook for $2.65MM and listed with the same agent that listed the development. It is not a short sale or a foreclosure yet but this guy’s life is over so where do you think this will end up?
Am I correct in assuming that perhaps the reason Wilmette’s high-end market appears to be not as bad as some other suburbs, is that Northwestern U professors and administrators are buying homes there, and commuting to the campus?
Also – if I had the means to buy a “high-end” home in the North Shore, it would have to be a house by “The Sheridan Road Ravine.” How are places in that posh pocket faring in this market?
“uhhh- people would LOVE to get 5 minutes alone with me!!!”
I don’t think you’re far off the mark on this one.
Bob – I’m talking about spending time alone with me in a good way!!
“As an interesting side note…the developer’s personal residence is for sale in Oak Brook for $2.65MM and listed with the same agent that listed the development. It is not a short sale or a foreclosure yet but this guy’s life is over so where do you think this will end up?”
I wouldn’t be surprised if the developer has paid cash for that place. He is an extremely well known developer and very prominent figure in these parts. He has made MILLIONS in all of his developments (Forest Gate, Savoy Club, etc.) and has to be a multimultimultmultimultimillionaire. If his personal residence does go into foreclosure, it is because he was “smart” and took advantage of the situation, hid his money and cut his losses.
re:Brittwood Creek
Gary, I can’t help but feeling really bad for the developer. You don’t realize how much this poor guy went through. There were several legal/municipal/social issues with this development and he made SIGNIFICANT compromises to appease the neighbors and Oak Brook village officials. This was a fight that started in 2005-2006 and was only resolved in 2008-2009. If the neighbors and village officials would have been a little more cooperative, the subdivision would have been sold out in 2005-2006 and everybody would have been happy. So, I don’t blame the guy for trying anything he could to save the subdivision. I just hope that he isn’t finished – he is a great builder and great visionary!!
Clio,
There is at least some mortgage on his personal residence – at least $1MM but the records are hard to interpret. I read somewhere that he filed for chapter 7 so I doubt he is a multi-millionaire any more. These guys gambled big, won big, lived big, lost big. It’s hard for ordinary folks to feel sorry for them.
“I read somewhere that he filed for chapter 7 so I doubt he is a multi-millionaire any more.”
His company may have filed for chapter 7 – but he is a really smart guy and probably has millions stashed away (legally) somewhere. There are a million ways to beat the system (legally).
Depends clio. A lot of developers were speculative/bullish enough to back their financing with personal guarantees. Those that did this cannot beat the system (legally). Of course if they’re good at hiding money there are ways to beat it illegally.. for a time.
I agree though that those developers that did not delve into personal guarantees can mostly just walk away and laugh at the banks/investors willing to give them crazy amounts of money for their grandiose (and now failed) ambitions. Stupid bankers–what were they thinking?!
“Stupid bankers–what were they thinking?!”
True, bob – but these “stupid bankers” are also the ones who made millions (billions) off of these type of developers/characters. As you know more than anyone, it’s all about the bottom line.
“These guys gambled big, won big, lived big, lost big. It’s hard for ordinary folks to feel sorry for them.”
Gary, I understand your point – but without people like this, we all would be living in cardboard boxes and mud huts. You need these visionaries to direct the 99.99% of the population who are lazy, scared, unimaginative followers!!
Quality of life is very important to my husband and I. I find the suburban life very depressing. Also I rather have 2 kids and send them to good private schools, keep them cultured by living in a metropole and more importantly keep myself in good shape. No offense, but I really don’t get the American concept of lets get married, have tones of kids, get the hugest characterless house one can afford in some lame suburb and oh lets get fat together. The only think more depressing to me is owning a van : ) Of course, this is my personal opinion and I can appreciate that people have different taste.
Sounds like a stereotype of the suburbs. 2 kids in private school costs around $40K per year (Latin, Parker, Lab). If you put that towards mortgage payments in the suburbs you would live in a palace with plenty of character – even for a lot less. The bigger issue is the commute.
miumiu,
Living in the suburbs, I totally understand what you are saying – but there is a very different undercurrent that is present which is not obvious to outsiders. You really can find many people who share similar interests, values, etc. no matter what they are. This is especially true in the more diverse white collar suburbs. City living is nice (especially if you have money) but it adds a TREMENDOUS amount of stress to life. Suburban life is much easier, peaceful, and less stressful.
Green acres is the place to be
Clio: “…but without people like this, we all would be living in cardboard boxes and mud huts. You need these visionaries to direct the 99.99% of the population who are lazy, scared, unimaginative followers!!”
I know you went to U of C and all that… But, come on. (Keep that Strauss in your own House)
danny,
I really didn’t mean to insult anyone – I just call it like I see it. The problem with everyone nowdays is that you can’t be truthful – you have to be nice. Well, sorry – call a spade a spade!!
That’s cool. No insult taken.
I do think that a lot of developers/entrepreneurs did go into real estate head-first off of the high dive. I wouldn’t be surprised if many ultimately go bankrupt. It’s kind of like the old adage about a dealer dipping into his own stash.