“The Market Is Brutal”: 1722 N. North Park in Old Town Finally Sells
We’ve chattered several times about this 5-bedroom renovated vintage house at 1722 N. North Park in Old Town over the last 18 months.
See our October 2010 chatter here.
Originally listed for $2.3 million in June 2009, we watched the price fall, and fall, and fall again.
Still there was no sale.
Located in a prime location in the Old Town Triangle, and completely renovated, the only thing it was missing was deeded parking.
Crain’s reports that the house finally sold in December 2010.
Many homeowners understand that in this market they have to price their homes to sell, says Karen Peterson, a sales associate in the Lincoln Park Plaza office of Coldwell Banker NRT.
Here’s the final listing history for the house:
1722 N. North Park: 5 bedrooms, 4.5 baths, plus family room, 4500 square feet
- Sold in July 2007 for $1.435 million (per the Tribune)
- Was listed in June 2009 for $2.3 million
- Reduced
- Was listed in September 2009 for $2 million
- Reduced
- Was listed in December 2009 for $1.985 million
- Reduced
- Was listed in April 2010 for $1.895 million
- Reduced
- Was listed in October 2010 at $1.69 million
- Reduced
- Sold in December 2010 for $1,572,500
- Taxes of $16,848
- No parking – but one year paid for by the seller
- Central Air
As we’ve chattered about recently, sales in the upper bracket appeared to be picking up, especially at the end of 2010, compared to the prior year- during the darkest days of the financial crisis.
Crain’s has the final numbers- and sales DID rise in 2010 compared to 2009.
House and condo sales of $1 million or more in the city of Chicago jumped 31% to 630 units in 2010, compared with 480 units in 2009, according to brokerage Baird & Warner Inc., which analyzed information from Midwest Real Estate Data LLC.
In the Chicago metropolitan area, sales of $1 million or more rose 21% last year to 1,442, compared to 1,195 in 2009.
Unfortunately, Crain’s does not break out what sales were like in prior years such as 2007 and 2008. We know 2009 was bad. Anything would be an improvement over that year. But how did 2010 stack up against, say, 2008 or 2006 or a “normal” year like 2000?
Inventories have come down recently, but I’ve seen many listings simply pulled off the market for the holidays. I’m expecting most, if not all of those, to come back on the market this spring.
The backlog of unsold luxury homes in the city has actually fallen since the summer. The supply was 18 months of houses and 21 months of condos on Aug. 31, the last time the Chicago-based brokerage studied the luxury market. In the city, the number of luxury homes on the market fell 21%, to 889 units on Dec. 31, compared to 1,124 units Aug. 31.
But the decline in unsold inventory is likely to be short-lived, says James Kinney, vice-president of luxury sales at Chicago-based Baird.
The number of homes for sale typically falls at the end of the year, when prospective sellers take properties off the market to start again the next year. In a healthy market, the backlog of unsold homes is usually less than nine months, especially at the end of the year when inventory bottoms out.
And inventory is likely to grow even more this summer if sales don’t pick up, Mr. Kinney says.
As a result, the downward pressure on prices is likely to increase, he says.
“That’s going to be the biggest issue going forward,” he says.
The median price for high-end single family homes, according to Baird, fell 12% to $1.3 million from $1.5 million in 2009. Condo prices didn’t fall as much due to several sales at the very highest end in the Elysian (over $6 million) which skewed the data.
There were also a lot more upper end condo sales in 2010 compared to 2009 due to closings in the Elysian and Walton on the Park. It’s amazing how just one or two new buildings closing can skew the data for that year.
Will the luxury market finally break out of its price decline this spring/summer?
High end sales up in 2010; glut persists [Crain’s Chicago Business, Andrew Schroedter, January 18, 2011]
I’m sure all the shills will say this is good news and spin it anyway they want to. We are still in a phase of massive de-leveraging, especially for anything in the $600K- $1.9M range. The number of people I know who are “waiting till Spring” to put their place on the market is numerous, and I’m afraid that there will be more competition with their properties than they’d hope.
This property looks like a decent buy at this price, even without parking. It does adjust comps downward for the immediate area though.
Tomorrow IAR will announce December sales down about 20% from last year, which is not as bad as recent months. Contract volume is recovering: http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-real-estate-getting-real/2011/01/is-chicagos-real-estate-market-getting-less-bad.html
I can’t put in a second link but inventories of 2 – 3 bedroom condos is improved in light of the higher contract volume and fewer units for sale. See 4th graph on chicagohousingstats.com
In this case, ‘brutal market’ is spin. It not only lacked parking, it has no backyard. No yard, no parking, for s.f. home means not luxury. Lot size matters. They did as well as could be expected.
“I can’t put in a second link but inventories of 2 – 3 bedroom condos is improved in light of the higher contract volume and fewer units for sale. See 4th graph on chicagohousingstats.com”
It looks like inventories have really fallen Gary. But what’s the cause? People giving up during the winter months and simply withdrawing it (only to try again this spring?) I’m seeing a lot of “new” properties come on the market that were already on the market a few months ago.
By the way- if sales really fell 20% in December it is worse than I thought. If you remember, last December was brutal as the first time home buyers credit (the first one) expired at the end of November. Last December, closings fell off a cliff as all those sales were pulled forward.
So it was worse than that? Wow. I thought we might see a year over year gain in December because the 2009 data was skewed. Apparently not.
al is 100% correct – this property was doomed because of lack of a parking space and no backyard. Furthermore, what idiot sells in this market and expects to get a good price? If they just waited months-1-2years, they could have done much better.
“If you remember, last December was brutal as the first time home buyers credit (the first one) expired at the end of November”
Again, I hope you realize that the “first time home buyers credit” only affected a VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY small segment of the housing market (namely, those homes under 300-400k max). There is a ridiculously huge inventory of homes above 400k that wasn’t affected AT ALL by this credit. Remember, there is a whole world outside the one you may live in…..
Clio, you are wrong. Sales spiked nationwide (and in Chicago) on that credit. 40% of all home purchases are by first time buyers. They were using that credit.
If it was such a small percentage- why did sales fall of a cliff in December in Chicago AND nationwide after the expiration of BOTH credits? Because it artifically pumped up sales.
Oh- and we, the taxpayers, all graciously paid $30 billion (each time) so the market decline could be delayed a few months.
Agree with Al. I don’t see what advantage this offers over a townhouse. With no yard, parking etc… I would prefer a large condo or a townhouse in an association that has some green space.
I think this house went at 27% under ask because properties that don’t have everything expected for the price point suffer more. This is true whether you are buying at 200K or 2 million. For example, a 200K condo without hardwood and granite will suffer a larger price deduction than one with.
Plenty of Old Town properties sell without parking and little yard. Heck, we just saw a 2 bedroom condo sell for more than its 2007 purchase price with no elevator and no parking just a few blocks away.
This Old Town house is not unusual. I could find dozens of houses in this price range on the North Side that have been on the market for a long time, with numerous price reductions, with little profit for the sellers.
“Clio, you are wrong. Sales spiked nationwide (and in Chicago) on that credit. 40% of all home purchases are by first time buyers. They were using that credit.”
Sabrina, sales MUST be broken down to make any sense. Sure, sales were up because of the first time home buyer credit – but those sales were in the under 300k category. How does this affect someone who is trying to sell/buy a 1 million dollar place – NOT AT ALL. So you CANNOT use the first time credit to analyze the entire market.
Things are brutal out there. The high end picked up. A lot of the high end seems to be related to finance and financial markets. You don’t see contractors buying high end homes, you see them selling their own homes.
This stuff just looks expensive when compared to prices in Phoenix/Miami. Part of me thinks we could see a half off sale 5 years from now. I just don’t believe in the long-term demographics of this area relative to the sun belt.
“Plenty of Old Town properties sell without parking and little yard. Heck, we just saw a 2 bedroom condo sell for more than its 2007 purchase price with no elevator and no parking just a few blocks away.”
Sabrina, This makes no sense. Its one thing not to have parking for a 2 bedroom condo. Its another for a SFH. SFHs are largely purchased by families with children. Not having a parking space is far more difficult for a family with kids than a single or a couple who can cab everywhere. This is why not having parking for a house is a much bigger problem. You should not compare the expectations of SFHs to 2 bedroom condo markets.
Maybe you just shouldn’t put $2.2M into a purple FRAME…? Derp.
“It looks like inventories have really fallen Gary. But what’s the cause? People giving up during the winter months and simply withdrawing it (only to try again this spring?)”
It is largely driven by fewer homes on the market. But that happens every December. Was the seasonal withdrawal worse than 2009? Don’t know yet if it was seasonality or not. The thing is that so many sellers are willing to wait it out unless they absolutely HAVE to move. And buyers are willing to wait it out too in many cases. Hence, the huge % of distressed property sales. That’s the only thing that can move.
“This stuff just looks expensive when compared to prices in Phoenix/Miami. Part of me thinks we could see a half off sale 5 years from now.”
Actually, this stuff just looks cheap when compared to prices in NY/LA. Part of me thinks we could see a double increase 5 years from now.
– see how stupid this sounds. This isn’t Phoenix/Miami – you can’t compare different areas. Real estate 101
yes, the market is brutal, but 90% of the brutality in this one instance is the fault of the dope who overpaid in 2007, went overboard on renovations, and then asked over $2MM for a purple house that belongs in Candyland.
with no parking.
Its called gingerbread victorian. My significant other hates hates hates it. I don’t mind it so much.
I agree with AL, a SFH should either come with a garage, a carpad or a place to put one. If it doesn’t, it’s always gonna have to factor that into the price. Is there someone out there who will buy it and not think about those things? Sure, but the odds of finding that buyer are slimmer.
Poor guy only made about $140K…. (before fees)…
Good deal on this house. Prior owners had $2.2MM in it.
“homedelete on January 19th, 2011 at 9:36 am
Its called gingerbread victorian. My significant other hates hates hates it. I don’t mind it so much.”
I’m sure it’s worth $2.2MM in San Francisco where it belongs.
“Poor guy only made about $140K…. (before fees)…”
Um, not really. They dumped huge amounts of money into this property after the 2007 sale – it was a total gut rehab. My guess is that they lost between 150 and 300k before fees. That just sucks.
Sean wrote: “I just don’t believe in the long-term demographics of this area relative to the sun belt.”
Just wait for more of that global warming craziness, my friend! Chicago offers a unique advantage (in the long-term perspective) by its adjacency to one of the largest fresh water supplies in the world. The funky weather will keep getting funkier, and that could well mean total drought in the Southwest.
Before the market can go up, it has to stop going down and stablize for few years. We are in the beginning phase of that hopefully. Right now there is a big lack of liquidity because both buyers and sellers are afraid they will do a deal and in 6 months the price will be 20% against them. No one knows what anything is worth because prices have been so volatile. Even on this sight smart, veteran real estate pros have wildly different opinions on what a dumb 2 bedroom condo in lincoln park is worth. It’s going to take long time for the dust to settle. Thinking prices could double in 5 years is not understanding the destruction that has taken place.
” Thinking prices could double in 5 years is not understanding the destruction that has taken place.”
That was written in response to a reader who posted that prices were going to be cut in half because phoenix/miami prices are low. Of course prices are not going to double or be cut in half in 5 years.
I honestly DO think that we are bouncing around the bottom right now in many areas (GZ) and will start seeing flat prices for the next 1-2 years with steady increases thereafter. That is not saying that there won’t be great deals that pop up here and there – but probably not in the numbers that most buyers hope for.
Look at the foreclosures/short sales out there. I have looked at every single one in the 60610, 60611, 60654, 60614, 60521, and 60523 zip codes and CANNOT FIND A SINGLE DECENT ONE. That is what is coming down the pipe – more horrible properties that are foreclosures. Seriously can anyone find a decent short sale/foreclosure in those areas?!! …. I thought not….
“Before the market can go up, it has to stop going down and stablize for few years.”
no it does not, that is false!
V shaped recovery in housing baby!
(very likely not gonna happen, but what you speak is not the facts)
So the renovator bought this house for close to 1.5M put 700k into it, and then put it on the market for 2.3M, which would mean an immediate loss right away after commissions? Something doesnt seem right about this. Did the renovator lose there own money on this deal? and why would they have taken that big of a loss instead of renting it out or waiting for better market conditions? The lot is 50 ft shorter than a normal lot and only 6 ft wider which wasnt even used. Ouch!
Clio you are wrong (sounds redundant).
Imo residential real estate is a simple daisy chain which was greatly assisted by 1st time buyer tax credit – in order for the 4 bedroom SFR to sell, prospective purchasers must sell their 2 bedrm condo. When the two bedroom condo market seizes & sneezes the 4 bedroom SFR market catches the proverbial flu. Maybe you and your social circle don’t do things this way but the majority of prospective move up purchasers must sell to be able to buy – remember there is an enormous world outside of the one you live in.
“Again, I hope you realize that the “first time home buyers credit” only affected a VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY small segment of the housing market (namely, those homes under 300-400k max). There is a ridiculously huge inventory of homes above 400k that wasn’t affected AT ALL by this credit. Remember, there is a whole world outside the one you may live in…..
Again, I hope you realize that the “first time home buyers credit” only affected a VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY small segment of the housing market (namely, those homes under 300-400k max). There is a ridiculously huge inventory of homes above 400k that wasn’t affected AT ALL by this credit. Remember, there is a whole world outside the one you may live in…..”
“I honestly DO think that we are bouncing around the bottom right now in many areas (GZ) and will start seeing flat prices for the next 1-2 years with steady increases thereafter.”
I hope this is true, because I’ve decided that the best thing in my particular situation is to wait 2 years or so to buy. I could buy a 2/2 now, but think I’d be better suited to buy a 3-4 bedroom townhouse in a few years that I’d be more likely to want to hang on to for a while.
southbound,
your point is well taken. i should take my own advice and realize that there is a whole world outside the world I live in!!!!
The real estate I deal with is primarily people who are 2nd or 3rd home buyers with 400k+ incomes and at least 1 million in assets. That segment of the market (which, I admit, is very small) wasn’t that affected by the first time home buyers credit. However, I do agree with you and understand what you are saying – I was completely wrong in saying that it had no effect – obviously, it does/did.
“I could buy a 2/2 now, but think I’d be better suited to buy a 3-4 bedroom townhouse in a few years that I’d be more likely to want to hang on to for a while.”
I think that is very smart – but I would still keep looking. If you see something in a 3-4 townhouse that looks attractive to you, try and buy it. The earlier you buy your “permanent” home in this market, the better off you will be down the road. I have seen the real estate market frenzy (fueled by sentiment/emotion) and things could get heated very very fast.
I think I’ve surrendered on the idea of buying a home in the city and instead we are making my 2/2 condo as homey as possible with new appliances (for us, not resale) and adding some extra cabinets in the kitchen.
I fear that by the time I’m able to sell my condo for break even, I’ll be forced to buy a home in the burbs to get what I want.
Icarus, I think you are in good company. Most people I have talked with are beginning to enjoy the place they are in and are hunkering down for 2-3 more years. There is nothing wrong with that – actually, there are a lot of benefits of staying put:
1. Avoid the stress of moving (often underestimated)
2. Familiarity = decreased stress (ie, knowing what routes are fastest, where the restaurants, grocery, gas is best, etc.).
3. Payment – probably a lower payment than you would have if you moved
4. Moving expenses – often underestimated by people
5. Redecorating/refurnishing expense – always underestimated by people.
6. Increased taxes (usually people are moving up = increased taxes
7. Increased utilities (ditto #6).
Clio, I dont understand why people arent following that the homebuyers credit didn’t really affect folks looking to buy properties over 400k. First off they are likely not first-time homebuyers so their credit would have only been 6500. It also required that you lived in your current residence for 5 out of the last 8 previous years. Alot of these folks didnt even meet that qualification with all the trading up happening in the boom and even if they did whats 6500?
On a 500k home purchase its 1.3%, doesnt seem like that much of an incentive to buy buy buy. Now on the other hand if you are buying an 80k property and are getting 8k… well thats huge.
Clio,
do you sit on cribchatter all day everyday? You must post 25+ posts a day. Don’t you realize there is no point in trying to prove “YOU’RE RIGHT.”
With all your blogging you could have I don’t know maybe improved yourself or peoples lives around you? How about volunteer your time or start teaching seminars on “how to make it rich in real estate” like Armando Montalongo.
MP – you are right!!! Actually, I have taken the week off to do my corporate taxes and organize my life – but it is much more fun to post on cribchatter. At work, CC serves as a type of internet “savory sorbet” – it cleanses my mental palette so I can approach the next subject with a clear mind.
Icarus: My choice over the summer was find a place to buy, or, upgrade various items in my apartment. After a very brief and discouraging search; I decided to upgrade my lifestyle instead. I’ll be hunkering down for a while too. But here’s a cool house that came up in the neighborhood below the 2004 purchase price.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4108-N-Kostner-Ave-60641/home/13482106
sorry HD but living in a house that looks like a gut-rehabbed barn is not “cool”
“here’s a cool house that came up in the neighborhood below the 2004 purchase price”
What’s your expressway radius again? This can’t be much more than 500 feet away (I realize it hasn’t moved since 2004, I’m commenting generally not re change from the 2004 price).
homedelete,
thanks, that one came in my inbox this morning. I swear I’ve seen it before but it looks like it hasn’t been on the market in all this time…i guess they are all starting to look alike to me.
DZ — it’s not as close to the expressway as it seems and I don’t think there is an on or off ramp on that street so it wouldn’t be too bad.
I think that’s a good price and I hope it sends a message to the people who are trying to sell less for more (those who can come down on their price, not those who cannot).
DZ – this dutch colonial (not barn) is further from the highway than that midcentury modern home in oak brook that someone posted the other day. Those oak brook homes literally back up to I-88.
To me being no more than a 5-7 walk (not bus ride ) to the el is important. I’ve lived in four or five neighborhoods in Chicago, at least 9 or 10 apartments nearly 16 years now and I’ve never lived more than a 5 minute walk from the red, brown or blue line.
As long as I’m not RIGHT on the highway, it doesn’t bother me so much. It means less time sitting in traffic to get to the highway.
The issue with this house (from what I think is the case) are the small rooms and the no bathroom upstairs…a lot of smaller 100 year old homes are like that.
But I am pleased to see someone list below the 2004 purchase price. That’s a rarity in this neighborhood.
dutch colonial = barn x barn?
because thats what it looks like
“DZ – this dutch colonial (not barn) is further from the highway than that midcentury modern home in oak brook that someone posted the other day. Those oak brook homes literally back up to I-88.”
Why would you even compare this house to the one in ob? The one in OB was a totally different style, different area, and different price point (1 mill). Also, it backed up to a country club – not i88.
“Unfortunately, Crain’s does not break out what sales were like in prior years such as 2007 and 2008. We know 2009 was bad. Anything would be an improvement over that year. But how did 2010 stack up against, say, 2008 or 2006 or a “normal” year like 2000?”
Chicago $1M+ closed detached SFH
2005 399
2006 432
2007 435
2008 358
2009 246
2010 277
Chicago $1M+ closed attached SFH
2005 393
2006 375
2007 432
2008 476
2009 234
2010 353
Chicago $1M+ closed attached & detached SFH
1998 107
1999 150
2000 271
2001 278
2002 291
2003 404
2004 676
2005 792
2006 807
2007 867
2008 834
2009 480
2010 630
Cook County $1M+ closed detached SFH
2005 1,167
2006 1,171
2007 1,190
2008 863
2009 594
2010 693
Cook County $1M+ closed attached SFH
2005 396
2006 379
2007 447
2008 481
2009 238
2010 359
Cook County $1M+ closed attached & detached SFH
2005 1,563
2006 1,550
2007 1,637
2008 1,344
2009 832
2010 1,052
Thanks G- it looks like the market is improving for 1 million + houses. Great news!!!
“Armando Montalongo”
Haaaaa, haaaaaaaaa, haaaaaaa now that was funny. I had forgotten all about Mr. Flip that House Texas style. That dude Armando was a trip. At least his brother knew it was time to bail long before Armando’s world fell apart. I wonder what happened to the guy in South Carolina on the original Flip that house series. At least it looked like his company did decent work on the homes. It looked like Armando used duct tape, mirrors, and any other trick to make the home look pretty in 48 hours without addressing any real structural issues. I’d bet that most of those buyers wish they never bought one of his flips!
I bet armando isn’t suffering at all…..
“Clio, I dont understand why people arent following that the homebuyers credit didn’t really affect folks looking to buy properties over 400k. First off they are likely not first-time homebuyers so their credit would have only been 6500. It also required that you lived in your current residence for 5 out of the last 8 previous years. Alot of these folks didnt even meet that qualification with all the trading up happening in the boom and even if they did whats 6500?”
What people perceive as “free” money has a powerful psychological effect, especially for accelerating timing of purchases, and a lot of people clearly managed to take advantage of the credits. Should that credit have much of an effect? No. Did it? Yes, clearly.
I hear your point on the fact that it shouldn’t have too much of an effect on the $600k+ market, but I’d have to look at the limits for the credit and the sales in that market segment to really believe that it did not. A lot of buyers above $600k may also be trading up with a need to sell an existing property, and the credit may have had some “trickle up” effects as well. Without the credits, I tend to think that the 2009 and 2010 sales numbers, even for +$1M, would have been even lower than they were.
The Chicago $1M+ attached closing numbers were inflated by the high end condo closings in 2010. Half of the condo increase is attributable to contracts signed in 2008 or earlier. 10 E Delaware, Walton on the Park, Aqua, 600 N LSD, Legacy, OMP, Elysian and Trump had 164 closings combined, compared to 68 in 2009. We’ll see where the condo numbers go when they better reflect resales of the vastly increased supply.
As for Chicago detached SFH, there appeared to be continued movement on old inventory, with 42 houses sold with at least a year’s market time (not including list-hold off market-relist) at an average of 82% of the original list price. The majority were spec construction or rehab, and this inventory has been declining. I suspect their contribution to volume will diminish.
Here are some more areas:
Dupage County $1M+ closed attached & detached SFH
2005 335
2006 318
2007 298
2008 220
2009 185
2010 193
Oak Brook $1M+ closed attached & detached SFH
2005 36
2006 34
2007 31
2008 15
2009 20
2010 21
Hinsdale $1M+ closed attached & detached SFH
2005 149
2006 111
2007 111
2008 86
2009 81
2010 89
Lake County $1M+ closed attached & detached SFH
2005 421
2006 430
2007 426
2008 253
2009 150
2010 176
Lake Forest $1M+ closed attached & detached SFH
2005 151
2006 136
2007 157
2008 84
2009 60
2010 82
Highland Park $1M+ closed attached & detached SFH
2005 86
2006 91
2007 74
2008 53
2009 30
2010 38
We’ve stabilized a step or two above 2008’s bottom.
I’m still surprised at how large the premium is to live in OT/LP compared to the north shore. My understanding is that RE taxes are similar, school would be insanely cheaper, and the $ per sq foot is much less if you buy in the burbs.
You really have to value having a 15 minute commute or have a mid to high six figure income to justify buying a decent SFH in the city.
This is a very high level, low rent analysis, but I suspect that lots of people, who during the good years could justify the extra cost of the city, are going to reluctantly move out to the burbs.
Compare 1.6m to what you could get in Winnetka and IMO the vast majority of people are going to pick the burbs. That being said, there is a ton more supply on the north shore than there is in ELP, OT, etc., so who knows.
“school would be insanely cheaper”
Why? At least before HS? Lincoln Elem (which this house would feed to) is as “good” or “better” than any public elem school on the north shore. Then there is the small but real possibility of getting them into one of the CPS HS’s that is as “good” or “better” than NTHS.
“You really have to value having a 15 minute commute or have a mid to high six figure income to justify buying a decent SFH in the city. ”
You also have to have a mid to high six figure income to consider buying a $1.6mm house in Winnetka. Unless there is some subsidy program I haven’t heard about, in which case, do tell.
But, yes, that is why *most* yuppie-ish folks, upon having kids, decamp for the ‘burbs. Most of them either (a) can afford a city SFH, but prefer the certainty and “ease” of school districts like NT or Hinsdale Central or whatever, or (b) can’t afford a SFH in a city hood they have heard of which also has a decent school.
The real thing to do is to compare what family-friendly condo/house one can afford on ~$100k/income (assume a dp-fund of $100k, just for fun; also, please note that $100k is about the *median* family income in both Lake and DuPage counties, mean is higher, so it’s not a crazy number) in the city vs. in generic-80+%-white-suburb. And then compare the attendance area schools. The ‘burbs win out, pretty handily, for most people.
“You also have to have a mid to high six figure income to consider buying a $1.6mm house in Winnetka. Unless there is some subsidy program I haven’t heard about, in which case, do tell.”
It was meant to be implied that you could get *the same* for less in the burbs. Same sq footage, outdoor space, parking, for less.
If you pay 1.6m for a place of this size in OT, I assumed something similar could be had for far less in Winnetka. One friend of mine just bought a ~new sfh in Winnetka for around 1m, it’s comparable to this place, albeit without much outdoor space either.
I wasn’t aware that public school education in this zone is better than the public school education in the NT district.
tay probable didnt know about this being in lincoln, or maybe even lincoln being a great school.
taxes are higher in winnetka as well. but I’ve always wondered if you breakdown the numbers, what tradeoff is. higher taxes vs private schools.
here’s one example. 1.6 mil winnetka place, taxes 4k more a year or so. looks like the tax bump might be worth it if you have to pay for school in the city. and prefer more house to walk-ability and lower concentration of country club types.
http://www.trulia.com/property/3011653496-788-Walden-Rd-Winnetka-IL-60093
The effective tax rate of a house in that Winnetka loction for 2009/pay 2010 was 1.74% of assessor’s market value. The effective tax rate of a typical Chicago house was 1.56%.
Those rates are without a homeowner’s exemption.
Do you guys really think people are choosing between winnetka or hinsdale and chicago?!!!! My experience has been that there are suburbanites and city folk and the two rarely switch teams – children or no children.
my mistake, trulia site didn’t list the taxes. but rubloff did
Taxes: $20,804
http://www.rubloff.com/search/property.cfm?propID=632DD53F-287A-4BD9-97DC-054E531EA804
Clio –
You said:
“Do you guys really think people are choosing between winnetka or hinsdale and chicago?!!!! My experience has been that there are suburbanites and city folk and the two rarely switch teams – children or no children.”
When I’m ready to purchase a home, this will be my decision. I can afford a SFH in Lincoln Park, OT, etc., but I might choose not to spend what I would need to spend to live there if I can get *the same* for less in the ‘burbs. Not too interested in locking up more capital than I need to, also.
I’ll be looking in the 1-2m range when I do buy a home, but who knows. I’m not just some internet schlub who is talking out of his ass.
“I wasn’t aware that public school education in this zone is better than the public school education in the NT district.”
I tread lightly on those sorts of comparisons, but test scores are comparable and Lincoln is very highly regarded. Buying within the boundary is a big deal to many.
“It was meant to be implied that you could get *the same* for less in the burbs. Same sq footage, outdoor space, parking, for less.”
Absolutely, but I wasn’t totally sure on the point as your example was Winnetka and what you get for the same amount. This is, imo, a much, much nicer *finished* house than you would get for, say, $500k in generic-suburb-X, but undoubtedly you can find a similar-sized house, with similar finishes on a larger piece of land (at least enough to park one car and have a couple of shrubs) for substantially less money.
Glad it sold. Very cute place.
Those “Ikea” frosted-glass metal-framed cabinets offend me, though. As do the “Salad Bowl” bathroom sinks. That trend must leave, and now. Yet both are correctable, and the place is great overall.
I will just never understand why people go for “fad” trends in kitchens and baths in renos rather than something classical with a modern spatial sensibility in vintage places like these. All of the trending in the chatter around here in the vein of the “ugh! That open kitchen/LR combo is just gross and 90s!!!!” when that style was the must have once upon a December should be proof positive.
I bet it would have sold for more, and more quickly, with more classical than “sooooo passe in 4 years, if not now” fixtures.
“Did the renovator lose there own money on this deal? and why would they have taken that big of a loss instead of renting it out or waiting for better market conditions?”
The whole point of a renovator is to get the sale quickly. No point in holding it as a rental for 4 or 5 or more years. Finishes go bad. Repairs have to be done. And there is no cash to renovate the next property. Landlording is a big no-no in the world of renovation/flip.
I liked this house; but this home was a design pet project for somebody’s significant other. They made choices not everyone would use but it’s still a beautiful home. I could look past the frosted cabinet windows and the bowls. I really liked the victorian exterior and modern exterior. In my experience that’s a rare find. and a much better combination than the modern exterior, victorian interior which, according to a designer I know, does most definitely exist, and is disgusting.
regardless, one thing I cannot look past, no matter how hard I try, is tract housing in the exurbs. We may judge cookie cutter condos but thank goodness we don’t have to judge 3 bedroom homes in Plainfield.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Plainfield/11543-Glenn-Cir-60585/home/12815976
I’ve been keeping my eyes open for a typical chicago brick bungalow with a modern interior, as opposed to the arts and crafts of the time period; I have not seen that yet on cribchatter or anywhere else. I’m sure it exists but it’s a rare find. Unfortunately, nowadays, the home despot/menards interior renovation job is par for the course for a typical chicago bungalow and they end up looking like this – and even scarier, they actually sell!
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4127-N-Tripp-Ave-60641/home/13479732
LOL @ plainfield house “Prime location w/ water views!”
I think it would sell better if they said
“close proximity to a humongous mosquito breeding ground for your pet amphibians!”
and you have strange taste… that place blows
nevermind… i thought you said you liked that plainfield house, not this one… lol!
Sabrina on January 19th, 2011 at 10:14 pm
Finishes go bad. Repairs have to be done.
~
Word, word, word.
But most buyers and renters don’t get this. It’s “OOoo~ the fridge is SILVER!” or “I can use my countertop as a mirror!” in lieu of what matters.
Never underestimate the power of sparkles. Savvy people? They’ll look at what matters, and not the cabinet style or whether there’s a silver fridge in the room or not.
clio – I’m also deciding between certain city neighborhoods for schools vs. burbs. I’d prefer OT due to location over the other areas (mainly a straight shot up Damen from Division to Lawrence it seems).
The burbs move would be a hard move for my family – and I grew up in the western burbs myself.
“clio – I’m also deciding between certain city neighborhoods for schools vs. burbs. I’d prefer OT due to location over the other areas (mainly a straight shot up Damen from Division to Lawrence it seems).
The burbs move would be a hard move for my family – and I grew up in the western burbs myself.”
you may be looking at good schools, but are missing the total picture. OT is a beautiful area FOR ADULTS, but i rarely see a teen or pre-teen on a bike riding to his frinds house. or a gang of skate boarders on the way to the park. In OT when do you see a group of 9 year olds playing football in the street.
its not just about the school for the kid its the whole environment that should be looked at.
Groove,
You could say the same thing about any city neighborhood when compared to the suburbs. Yes, some neighborhoods are better than others within the city, but it’s really not even close when compared to the amenities that most burbs provide.
Living in OT might make for a 15 minute commute each way for working adults. Compare that to Lakeview or even further north and you’re saving 30-40 minutes per day or more if you’re working in the Loop.
In this situation, parents can spend hours per week more with their children than they could living elsewhere. Some would argue that is more important than their kids being able to play football in the street.
Bottom line, to each their own.
“In this situation, parents can spend hours per week more with their children than they could living elsewhere. Some would argue that is more important than their kids being able to play football in the street.”
ask a 10 year old whether he would like to hang with daddy or his buddies playing johnny tackle.
“Bottom line, to each their own.”
100% true!!
and i am a huge pusher of living as close to work as possible and would take the 15 minute commute and no parking over a 45 minute commute and a huge yard that i would only use on the weekend.
depends on your work schedule too, if you work grueling hours and that extra 40min is the only time you get with junior, it’s close to priceless. but if it turns 2.5 into 3+hrs it’s not nearly as valuable. I’ve been getting a little over 2hr per afternoon with my 15mo old of late and I am more than ready for him to go to bed by the the end of it. an extra 40min is undesirable. and he’s a great kid in my unbiased opinion
You’ve got other problems if you spend only 40 minutes a day with your children and you need to live in Old Town so you can see your children.
Even to me 2 hours seems like not enough during the week and this is from somebody in the same position as you. I’ve given up a lot of extracurricular activities during the week and gotten into work earlier so I can spend as much time as possible at home.
“I’ve been getting a little over 2hr per afternoon with my 15mo old of late”
I now get 4hr and still once a week go home for lunch play in the snow before his nap. (wife hates it cause when we are done i hand over a wet kid and take off).
now saying this realize i have forgone a high paying career and graduate school for a low paying career just because i personally rather enjoy my family and my hood than commute and work extra hours.
each is own, and priorities change as i did work two jobs and wife did two when we first started out so we can live the life we are now.
each is own for sure, or maybe your kid is just better than mine. crap how did that happen?!
the point was that i think it’s silly to call OT a good place to live for adults and not children. there are benefits and drawbacks to literally every place you could possibly live. in the grand scheme of things, OT would be a great place to be raised and any kid would be lucky to have parents that could afford to raise them in an area like that.
i don’t have kids, i’m not even married, it’s just annoying to me when people try to project their own values as facts that should apply to everyone.
I know plenty of people that don’t want to see their children or family and work all the time.
“#CH on January 20th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
each is own for sure, or maybe your kid is just better than mine. crap how did that happen?!”
“OT would be a great place to be raised and any kid would be lucky to have parents that could afford to raise them in an area like that.”
Not very lucky if both parents work all of the time and the kid is raised by the help.
I like them better than work so I guess I shouldn’t feel that jealous of groove, thanks hd!
“I like them better than work so I guess I shouldn’t feel that jealous of groove, thanks hd!”
each is own bro, its all about your own beliefs not someones else’s. who cares how much or little time i spend with my family shouldn’t affect you at all.
our choice was to put ourselves in a situation where wife could be a stay at home mom, and i could be at the dinner table at 5:30, i could still coach, and play in my bball league (and maybe softball and football too).
but thats us.
“the point was that i think it’s silly to call OT a good place to live for adults and not children”
hey i was just calling them like i see them. i know if i was a pre-teen or 9 year old not having homies to play catch one catch all would suck.
i just dont see kids in OT out and about being kids?
“hey i was just calling them like i see them. i know if i was a pre-teen or 9 year old not having homies to play catch one catch all would suck.
i just dont see kids in OT out and about being kids?”
Too busy with the private coaches and the language lessons and practicing the three instruments etc.
Besides, what kid wants to hang out with little over-privleged kids like that?
For those of you who are parents – when did you make these decisions about how much time to spend at home vs. work? After you had kids or when you were “planning”? Why is it that careers start to take off just when kids start to enter the picture? No kids for me yet but not sure how I would handle this trade off.
“planning”?
Ha!
I suppose its different for everyone. Virtually every man I’ve ever met who has three daughters or more daughters, and only daughters (no sons) spends lots of time at work. They love their family but being home isn’t quite the same around four or more women.
I know other old school people who are never home – the wife stays at home and the husband goes out every night and gets business and works in the office all weekend.
I know other people who try and be home as much as possible. I know people who hire nannies for 50 or more hours a week.
It’s just whatever you feel comfortable with. There is no easy answer.
“I know other people who try and be home as much as possible. I know people who hire nannies for 50 or more hours a week. ”
And these are not mutually exclusive.
I’d love to be in a situation to get an au pair. The extra help with simple coordination & shuttling would be excellent.
“Virtually every man I’ve ever met who has three daughters or more daughters, and only daughters (no sons)”
Is that a big demographic? “Virtually” suggests you know at least 7 or 8.
Yeah, that’s probably about right. I notice a pattern. maybe the pattern is wrong. I’m just sayin’
“DZ on January 20th, 2011 at 5:17 pm
“Virtually every man I’ve ever met who has three daughters or more daughters, and only daughters (no sons)”
Is that a big demographic? “Virtually” suggests you know at least 7 or 8.”
“when did you make these decisions about how much time to spend at home vs. work? After you had kids or when you were “planning”? ”
Joe I,
we started “planning” when we got engaged. now that “plan” has changed over the years from the original but the main premise of the “plan” is still intact.
we wanted to position ourselves that if she decided she didnt want to work and stay home that we could to it comfortably without any change in lifestyle. and if she still wanted to work the extras will just be for more savings/investing and more/larger vacations. but the rule was once we had kids we HAVE to be at the dinner table at 5:30, together, no phones, no TV.
wife was thinking of going back to work but, just wait, when you see the prices of good Nannies or top daycares you may need to re-evaluate your careers.
after interviewing nannies we went over our careers and their potential (perks, growth, ease of movement, proximity to house). when knew that my career would come out on top but still went through the exercise anyways just in case.
then we weighed the cost of a nanny (and nanny share) to her jobs value and SHE said screw this I WANT TO RAISE MY OWN KIDS. and that was an end to that exercise.
*btw if our exercise would have produced her career to work the best for us. I would have had no problems being a stay at home Dad, i wouldnt be as awesome and as good as my wife, but would have enjoyed it the same.
good luck joe I, it all changes and view/ideals may need tweaking. the only advice i can give you is give yourself a BIG cushion financially and all other things will work itself out naturally and stress free.
“I’d love to be in a situation to get an au pair. The extra help with simple coordination & shuttling would be excellent.”
do what i did the first 8 months i hired a cleaning lady to come once a week, and some times twice a week. i paid her extra to knock out the laundry too.
hoops league in your neck of the woods? i’ve played several but never any out there.
“hoops league in your neck of the woods? i’ve played several but never any out there.”
there is one a brooks park, almost all fireman and cops. but that was about 6-7 years back.
kilborn park had a good one a few years back.
played a few at that sports center on logan by the target.
i play on the west side during the fall/winter and one southside winter/spring now. just one league per season for me at this age.
gage park used to have a good one on saturdays and they have open gym at 12pm in the winter on the weekend. the pick up games are very leisurely and an older crowd good when coming off an injury to get your legs and wind back.
Just wanted to comment on the perception that kids and Old Town do not mix. I don’t have children but I live in Old Town and see kids everywhere. The Menomonee Club has many programs for children that do not cost a lot. I’ve seen the weeknight karate and art lessons and they are full with kids having fun.
Halloween in Old Town is alive with children and their parents going out for trick-or-treats and the playground at LaSalle Language Academy is full every night and weekends with kids playing.
I think Old Town is very kid-friendly and it’s not just rich kids with their nannies and au pairs. Parents are very involved with their kids’ activities.
ah, I’ve played at brooks but only as a sub in a league that was way more talented than I. and a few at the target with sport monster. odd court surface there.
there was a fun league at green briar on peterson. court is very small and they played 4 on 4. nice for old legs. Mike North was always playing with his buddies before us.
CH,
the windy city field house floor is odd but i swear by it. my body, knees, and other joints feel 10x better after hard game there than a slow pick up game anywhere else.
but i do notice i am slower on that court or its just my mind play tricks.
ha, green briar on peterson, i just ate at wolfy’s last week, i think they have new owners its not the same feel.
brooks is crazy competitive and the league is hard to get into.
aslo check des plaines YMCA they had a tough league back in 1999.
BTW nobody ask why i am posting this late, please