You Said These New Construction Units Wouldn’t Sell: 1005 W. Webster in Lincoln Park
In March 2010 we debated whether this 6-unit new construction building at 1005 W. Webster in Lincoln Park signaled a market bottom in Lincoln Park.
It was a rare new construction development and the price points for the 3-bedroom units started at $699,000 and went as high as $875,000.
See our prior chatter and pictures here.
Many of you thought the prices were simply too high for the location near the El and the bars on Webster.
Since then, 4 out of 6 of the units have sold and another unit is contingent.
Here are the details on those units which sold with the March 2010 listing price appearing first:
- Unit #2E: $759,000– sold in July 2010 for $705,000
- Unit #2W: $739,000– currently listed at $719,000 and under contract
- Unit #3E: $749,000– sold in January 2011 for $705,000
- Unit #3W: $699,000– still available but doesn’t appear to be listed
- Unit #4E: $875,000– sold in July 2010 for $870,000
- Unit #4W: $849,000– sold in August 2010 for $825,000
These 3-bedroom, 2 bath units have luxury finishes including Viking appliances and natural stone baths.
So I will ask again- did this building signal the bottom of the Lincoln Park market- at least in the upper bracket?
Jeff Lowe at Prudential Rubloff has the listings.
See pictures and a virtual tour of Unit #2W here.
The banner on the building, as of yesterday, said “sold out”.
YES. These are nice units across from the el. I would not want to live there but they were a good value. Can not find those finishes and space elsewhere at that number. Forum was wrong. They sold.
how long would it take to walk to the loop from 1005 w. webster? will i have to cross LSD walking to get to the lake?
Wow – even as one of the biggest optimists – I am completely shocked that, #1 – these sold so fast and #2 – theses sold at such high prices!!! What is so special about these units/location? I don’t get it – but obviously people out there understand better than we do~!!!!
I’m surprised as well. I can’t imagine many people with the money to buy one of those places wanting to live in the heart of DePaul-ville. Have fun cooking on your stainless steel Viking appliances while the sound of wasted students partying at McGee’s wafts in through the window…
2W: The unit is small-looking, I’m shocked at the price, which could purchase an entire SF home in plenty of good Chicagoland locations. The hood over the range looks tiny in that photo, it even looks like it’s less than 30″. I like the master bath shower stall, less glass to squeegie.
I saw something similar happen along the lake in Rogers Park about two years ago, an entire new development sold out while other much bigger and cheaper units with better views languished on the market. I guess either buyers put a huge premium on new construction, (“first to use this bathroom”) or less likely, something funny is going on and these sales are not arms length.
There’s a new development at Barry (near Broadway) that took forever to construct. They kept the facade of an old building and put a bunch of condos behind it. It is totally fugly from the outside with the brand new fourth floor peeking out over the old facade.
Anyway, I walked through the open house this weekend. LR/DR/Kitchens are really, really small. Bedrooms are in weird locations and yet, half have sold and closed already. Prices around 600K for 3br/3bath including parking. Who would want to live on that crowded, loud block at that price point?
You people sound like a bunch of whiners. Seriously. City living does not equal peace and tranquility. Webster/Lincoln is a good stretch of bars and restaurants, close to Armitage shopping, etc. What do you want, private side yard and lawn mowers? Move to Cincinnati.
This is why I can’t get my head around Chicago. Proximity to the El is a good thing. Proximity to high density residential areas is a good thing.
A little off-topic, but this is why the wave of foreclosures is far from over. And the point about supporting the economy with the former mortgage payment is brilliant.
http://wallstreetpit.com/59607-even-more-millionaires-strategically-defaulting
“or less likely, something funny is going on and these sales are not arms length.”
Why would this by less likely? It’s the first thing I thought when I saw this sold out on my way to Sweet Mandy’s last night.
something funny is going on and these sales are not arms length.”
Translate what this means please?
I got the impression that they may not all be arms-length, but it still dosen’t seen so rediculous.
“or less likely, something funny is going on and these sales are not arms length.”
Joe, because most people here are probably evil, boring suburbinates who envy their younger exciting years in the city.
Am I the only one confused about the “arms-length” reference??
Really Spinoza, I don’t get it. This is the same crowd who was crying over the losing a full sized Dominicks in ELV. I can certainly think of better opportunities for urban development and quality of life at the street level than another big box store stuffed into a city block.
Big box stores and banks on every corner destroy neighborhoods. Small grocers that you WALK to a few times a week on your way home from work are a good thing. I’d rather have 3 corner bars than another Chase/BofA/Starbucks intersection.
What Does Arm’s Length Transaction Mean?
A transaction in which the buyers and sellers of a product act independently and have no relationship to each other. The concept of an arm’s length transaction is to ensure that both parties in the deal are acting in their own self interest and are not subject to any pressure or duress from the other party.
Oh, and I love where “City Living” is being equated to living on the El tracks up the street from Kelly’s/McGee’s/State and across the street from DePaul.
This isn’t even really Lincoln Park. This is Bizzaro World LP and real Parkers walk through this area at 10mph with hips a flailing so as to avoid the Big East college kids and their post college Big 10 counterparts to which this area is their Mecca and McGee’s is their Kaaba.
I’m not saying that means no person would ever pay 700 to 870k to live here, but am saying that the younger people I know with that money would never ever live here. Ever. I’m also saying that the odds of finding 6 of those people in this market seems beyond unlikely.
“This is why I can’t get my head around Chicago. Proximity to the El is a good thing. Proximity to high density residential areas is a good thing.”
people here whine about traffic in ELV or ELP when there are transit options availible too circumvent this… face it, people are selfish morons
Joe I, I mostly agree, e.g. if it was whole foods instead of dominicks, I’ll let it pass though…There is just something about looking at ladies grocery shopping with their glass of wine in their hands that gets me going 🙂
Just because they sold at that price doesn’t mean that the purchaser actually paid that price. Developers are bringing cash to the table at closing to make the actual price lower, but by bringing cash at closing they can say they sold the unit at a better price.
chicagobull, maybe you were well off once but please save your mis-placed snobbery for elsewhere. While you are right about what was once considered LP has changed, the fact is, the situation is what it is, i.e. most people perceive this area as LP.
Now, please tell us where would your friends buy at the same price point, same sq.ft.,brand new, etc…
Bigbadbank, I don’t think the cash amount you are talking is substantial. What you are describing mostly happens for cash-short buyers, to compensate/pay for the closing costs.
“Most people perceive this area as LP”
Only a 18 to 25 year old that just moved here from Cincinnati/Columbus/Omaha/Iowa would consider this prime LP.
My younger friends with this kind of money live in the GC/Mich Ave area. It’s the same place where all young kids with money live in this city.
There also isn’t a $ per SF number that would EVER get them or me to ever live in this location.
I know of developers that have brought as much as $25k to closing (on a ~500k unit) in addition to closing costs. Not a huge amount with respect to these units but still not a bad addition to a downpayment if you can get your mortgage lender to agree on the value of your unit being the percieved purchase price.
Chicagobull, your statement is a perfect illustration of the fact that you don’t have much clue. Please tell me where in Gold Coast? The new construction 3BR would be out of reach for them. Alternatives would be buildings like 1000 LSD. which is a disaster zone, as prime as the location may be.
Streeterville and Gold Coast attract more out of towners than LP, LV, target market being a lot of people from the suburbs, or the immediate midwest cities and some international.
Tell me where a family is going to purchase in GC/SV at $700K? Please do.
#3E
12/01/2010 01/18/2011 TRUSTEES DEED $705,000.00
01/11/2011 01/18/2011 MORTGAGE $705,000.00
#4W
08/02/2010 08/20/2010 TRUSTEES DEED $825,000.00
08/16/2010 08/20/2010 MORTGAGE $660,000.00
#4E
06/07/2010 07/19/2010 TRUSTEES DEED $870,000.00
06/15/2010 07/19/2010 MORTGAGE $499,900.00
06/07/2010 07/19/2010 TRUSTEES DEED $732,500.00
06/15/2010 07/19/2010 MORTGAGE $499,900.00
One owner appears to be a trader, another is involved in finance, another appears to be a finance analyst; and the fourth is unknown.
America – This is your TARP and QEI/II money at work.
ChicagoBull, go spend some time in a city on the East Coast where space has been at a premium for 200 years. You’ll find that with the exception of the super wealthy, people living in $600k-1mm homes and condos integrate just fine with lower value housing, students, and even people who aren’t the same color!
Chicago is a woefully segregated places, both racially and socioeconomically. People pay an absurd premium to live in certain areas of certain neighborhoods (Anonny’s unicorn hunt comes to mind). I agree Depaul does nothing good for street level quality of life, but I would take a place a block from the El within walking distance to Gemini, Lincoln/Belden bars, Kith and Kin, local option, and Sweet Mandy Bs at this price point for sure.
The “real Parkers” you describe belong in Schaumburg or some god forsaken town in Ohio.
most of the people living in this building are late 20s to mid 30s. it’s a great location (IMO) for that crowd. i don’t know for sure but i doubt there was anything shady going on here w/regards to the sales (based on what i know about the people who purchased the units).
it’s a nice building. people that have money like to live in nice buildings in good (for their lifestyle) locations. for what it’s worth, i’d kill to have the roof deck of the penthouse units.
The listed profession are not in order of the units listed above.
Joe I/Spinoza/et al.: This is DePaulville. Not really LP. Technically it’s in the geographic radius that is referred to as LP, but it’s like a pocket of a different neighborhood. It’s a college neighborhood. Not wanting to live in a college neighborhood (just like not wanting to live above a bar) does not equate to not wanting to live in the city. Where in LP would I buy at this price point? Try a few blocks east, west or even south of this location. I love the Halsted/Armitage shops, bars, restaurants–which is why I live two blocks east of them.
what’s going on w 3e?
Don’t you see people this is a work hard party hard type of building, hence it’s so close to the LP scene and bars. And given that most finance/trader types are all transplants from somewhere else, the perceived name recognition of LP along with the attendant lifestyle is important for this crowd. These condos are merely the first step in the property ladder on their way to either a SFH or row home in LP or a home on the north shore. It’s just the way it is.
“The hood over the range looks tiny in that photo, it even looks like it’s less than 30?.”
This appears to be a Viking 30″ hood over a 30″ range, I think it’s just the angle of the photo. IMO, chosing all Viking appliances is done for effect, not practicality. I have to admire the job Viking did with their PR, but anyone who researches fridges and dishwashers is likely to make a different choice to get reliability. Same for pro-style home ranges re a good range of features vs. price point. So not my first choice but I can see why they developer did this and the kitchen looks lovely and seems like it has a good layout. Also not my first choice for locale, but everything has pros and cons. While you could do a lot better in many areas, in others this would buy a lot less, and it’s not like it’s in Timbuktu.
I’m not arguing that this is in “real” LP.
I’m not from Chicago and therefore don’t have any sense of status or prestige attached to any of these neighborhood names. I’m just looking at the amenities available in the immediate area, including proximity to the Armitage shops you refer to, and am considering the trade-offs of being close to Depaul. I think the unit finishes, space, and amenities at these price points make sense to me considering all those trade-offs.
Feel free to blow me away with a similarly equipped 1,800 sq ft unit with parking for 700k 4 blocks east of here. I’m bitching in a macro sense about the city cause it drives me nuts what people think are worth paying for, and specific to the units, I don’t think any of these guys overpaid by more than 20-30k.
so 3E is 100% financed. who wrote that loan hd?
Louie,
Please go to Lincoln Park Chamber of Commerce and grab a brochure and a map of LP.
I completely agree with the fact that what was once considered LP, has extended pretty dramatically due mainly to economic dynamics. It was convenient for everyone as it has increased the value of real estate for all the stakeholders. If you ask me LP in its large sense is the most artifically constructed neighborhood in its valuation and its inconsistent architecture is a perfect illustration of that. But, that’s another discussion. Today, LP extends West of Ashland, up to Clybourn. Have you seen the Mega Mansions on Paulina, between Diversey and Wrightwood? Have you checked the empty lot prices in that micro area?
In all honesty, halsted/armitage shops are not taking you that much of a different environment in terms of where this property is located. There are even some cool shops on that strecth of Webster, and you have the beautiful Ray Meyer Fitness center which would defy any luxury, low ceiling, expensive health club in the city.
Spinoza,
You really need to learn how to read. I never said that they live in 3BD new construction. I said that no $ per SF number would ever induce them to live in this location.
The younger people with money that I know live in the GC and Mich Ave area. Some in the 4 Seasons, one in the Hyatt, some on ELSD. Some *gasp* have town homes in the GC, which can now be puchased for less than 2 mill. These are people with real money, Spiner that can live wherever they want. Yet none of them live over here. Hmmmmm.
One of these units sold for 870k. If you don’t know what you can get for 870k in this city right now, that makes you much more clueless than I.
Too bad Gracie’s closed! These probably would have gone for north of a mill!
Merrill Lynch
I’m just posting what’s recorded. I’m not making any representations whether or not it was actually 100% financed.
“#jfmiii on January 31st, 2011 at 1:00 pm
so 3E is 100% financed. who wrote that loan hd?”
“what people think are worth paying for”
Joe I – to each their own good sir. A dollar to you is not a dollar to me.
Homedelete,
A bachelor doesn’t buy a 3BR. It’s rare. it’s an exception. A 3BR is not a first step home.
http://www.ccrd.info/CCRD/controller?commandflag=searchByProperty&optflag=SearchCommandForIL&PIN_1=14&PIN_2=32&PIN_3=216&PIN_4=008&PIN_5=0000
And sorry the last unit above (I don’t know which unit it is) should read:
06/07/2010 07/19/2010 TRUSTEES DEED $732,500.00
06/18/2010 07/19/2010 MORTGAGE $499,950.00
I never said bachelor. I said party lifestyle. Some of the deeds were husbands and wives, others, just a single person. I don’t make any representations.
“#Spinoza on January 31st, 2011 at 1:06 pm
Homedelete,
A bachelor doesn’t buy a 3BR. It’s rare. it’s an exception. A 3BR is not a first step home.”
Joe said:
“Feel free to blow me away with a similarly equipped 1,800 sq ft unit with parking for 700k 4 blocks east of here. I’m bitching in a macro sense about the city cause it drives me nuts what people think are worth paying for, and specific to the units, I don’t think any of these guys overpaid by more than 20-30k.”
I agree, particularly with the macro sense commentary. It’s interesting because by and large the people who nitpick about how someone overpaid slightly or how one minor aspect of the property makes it unlivable are generally people who will never even have the means to make that choice.
Also worth noting re: this building is that the E side should command a premium to the W. Notice the bay windows that are only on one side of the building and also an additional buffer from the El tracks that are a block West.
Here’s a link to all the recordings for the building under PIN 14-32-216-008-0000 all the units are recorded to one PIN at this time.
http://www.ccrd.info/CCRD/controller?commandflag=searchByProperty&optflag=SearchCommandForIL&PIN_1=14&PIN_2=32&PIN_3=216&PIN_4=008&PIN_5=0000
Chicagobull, I offer analysis based on the feedback you gave. You said people with this kind of money: I translate into what can the same amount buy you in GC? East LSD, is not the same money. If you had said, ELSD kind of money, then I would of given you a different perspective. Townhomes under $2M, is not $700-$870K either.
So, decide first about what kind of money you want to talk about, then we can have a healthy discussion about the true comparables.
The fact that you are thrwing around the numbers so clueslessly makes my b.s. antennas very sensitive, and itchy, to say the least.
dont you guys know the snow is coming, you should really point your noses down or snow flakes might get inside.
I think it’s interesting that 3 of the 4 buyers are involved in finance, trading, or financial analysis. Stock market is pumped to nearly 12,000, commodities are going up; hot TARP and QEI/II money is floating around; and 20’s and 30’s something finance types are buying high end new construction condos.
This is what a ‘recovery’ looks like, right?
I’m sorry, but what bsd trader in their right mind in their mid 30’s is going to Mcgees or Local Option?
Give me a break.
And Joey and Spiner, go to Orchard and Burling off Armitage. Or check out the fy palace on the SE corner of Oz Park. Then go tell your buddies on the Jersey Shore about them. The homes between Wrightwood and Diversey, “Mega Mansions”?
I think this shows that there are people looking to buy quality product at reasonable prices. I think the problem with Crib Chatters by in large is that their perception of quality and reasonable are vastly different from the typical purchasers of property in prime areas of a big city like Chicago.
“One owner appears to be a trader, another is involved in finance, another appears to be a finance analyst; and the fourth is unknown.”
You dunno if they’re going to be living there. Could be rich people with kiddos going to DePaul who both want them to have a nice place to live along with an in town unit.
Not sure of the allure of this location other than its proximity to McGee’s & methinks dollar beer night there might not be such a great/necessary amenity to these owners.
cbull, drive through the exact stretch I described. Almost every single lot is SFs between 6000 and 12000 sqft and 3000-4500sqft townhomes.
“ChicagoBull, go spend some time in a city on the East Coast where space has been at a premium for 200 years.”
That has not been the case in Chicago, so what’s the point?
“I’m not from Chicago”
No kidding. What’s with the transplants who think their taste and sophistication make them special? That’s a dead giveaway to me that they couldn’t afford to live on the coasts, where that attitude might be valued.
You guys just don’t get it. It’s not about quality, or demand, or perception of demand. It’s about a bunch of 20 and 30 year old finance type guys making big money and spending it. This building is not a reflection of the market. It’s a reflect of the money the finance industry is currently earning. Three or four years ago instead of buying in this building they would have bought at a more tony address or elsewhere. That’s it. Show me a building with a cross section of the upper -middle class, with doctors, lawyers, finance types, accountants, small business owners, engineers, etc. Please for the love of god don’t extrapolate a building full of finance types into the market as a whole.
“go to Orchard and Burling off Armitage. Or check out the fy palace on the SE corner of Oz Park”
Stop comparing apples and oranges! You are not making any sense. Show me a home on that stretch that has similar comps, and tell me what is priced at?
Thanks.
p.s. so far you strike me off as more of a wannabe then an actual ELP’er. It’s like you know how to count all the brand name clothing lines, but that doesn’t mean you can actually afford/buy them of course.
Spinoza,
I don’t care about what is or isn’t “Lincoln Park.” My point is that you couldn’t sell me on living in that neighborhood based on all the great things in “Lincoln Park.” It ain’t worth it. I’m not saying anyone overpaid, I’m saying I personally wouldn’t have paid that much (or anything close). Having lived in that neighborhood during law school, I had my fill of trying to fall asleep to thumping music and shrieks from the street, State, McGee’s and Kelly’s–on a Tuesday night. I could go on, but my point is that particular intersection absolutely SUCKS to live near unless you are part of the crowds at those bars. That 1-2 block radius around DePaul generally sucks unless you are lucky enough to live in a building that is not adjacent to one occupied by DePaul students. And even then, you’re still fighting through wandering crowds of drunken idiots every weekend (not to mention the clusterf__k that is St. Paddy’s Day in that area). When I got a job, I definitely wanted to live in LP–but I refused to look at anything in “DePaulville.” That’s just me.
Joe -“ChicagoBull, go spend some time in a city on the East Coast where space has been at a premium for 200 years. You’ll find that with the exception of the super wealthy, people living in $600k-1mm homes and condos integrate just fine with lower value housing, students, and even people who aren’t the same color!
Chicago is a woefully segregated places, both racially and socioeconomically. People pay an absurd premium to live in certain areas of certain neighborhoods (Anonny’s unicorn hunt comes to mind). I agree Depaul does nothing good for street level quality of life, but I would take a place a block from the El within walking distance to Gemini, Lincoln/Belden bars, Kith and Kin, local option, and Sweet Mandy Bs at this price point for sure.
The “real Parkers” you describe belong in Schaumburg or some god forsaken town in Ohio.
”
I could not agree more. After living in several large cities, including NYC, this is my biggest gripe about Chicago. People do not integrate racially or socioeconomically b/c they are too scared to do something new. Too scared to think outside of the box. A friend of mine bought a vanilla box in streeterville over a gorgeous loft customized with high end finishings on Superior and Larrabee b/c he thought that streeterville was “the better image.” So now he lives in a plain vanilla box…how sad. This is like choosing a white 50s building on the Upper East Side over a cool Noho loft.
“Please for the love of god don’t extrapolate a building full of finance types into the market as a whole.”
Who is doing this?
Nobody is, and I’m begging that no one does. Because it’s just a matter of time before the clio show appears on cue.
“#tay on January 31st, 2011 at 1:29 pm
“Please for the love of god don’t extrapolate a building full of finance types into the market as a whole.”
Who is doing this?”
These seem quite overvalued to me on a per square foot basis, but I suppose that not all buyers are as concerned about that. I’m shocked that someone would buy an $800k 1800 sqft condo at that location. I understand when people spend that much in River North, the Gold Coast or Streeterville (I still think it’s nuts, but I understand it), but it just blows my mind at this spot. I’ll bet that the first resale occurs within 2 years and is more than 10% lower than the original sale price as someone looks to move up or move on. It also looks like a few of these purchases involve some family money, so maybe it’s not worth as much to get a deal if you didn’t earn the money anyway.
Louie, that’s a fair point you are making in terms of what you would prefer, where you would like to spend your money or how much you would like to spend; that’s your business. So long as you realize that, everything has a price. More seclusion and quiet is more expensive. If for instance you are someone who value that over the amount of sqft. you can get, there is no problem.
Some people bought 1BR new construction at $600 on LSD, some people buy a 3BR further north at the same price.
You’re right, Spiner, I’m clueless. That’s why I own in ELP and would never, ever, ever live in this location. That’s also why the above average number of people I know with enough money to live in this location choose not to do so.
Why do you keep trying to make this about comps? The people I know, including myself who can afford these don’t live over here.
Sorry I confused you with the phrase “this kind of money”.
“Show me the comps, show me the comps!!!!!!”
Settle down, realtard.
G said:
No kidding. What’s with the transplants who think their taste and sophistication make them special? That’s a dead giveaway to me that they couldn’t afford to live on the coasts, where that attitude might be valued.
—-
Not sure how this is relevant as it has more to do with the “you don’t know who I am” argument you do with Clio and JMM. For the record, I’m here for my MBA and my wife’s med residency. In 3 years I’ll be able to afford to live in any hood in Chicago I would want. The reason i follow this site is because I’m trying to decide if I would want to.
“I could not agree more. After living in several large cities, including NYC, this is my biggest gripe about Chicago. People do not integrate racially or socioeconomically b/c they are too scared to do something new. Too scared to think outside of the box”
Most Chicagoans and midwesterners have absolutely no taste. They just want to have what their parents had, if they have money, they’ll make it more over the top and ugly, that’s the only change you will be looking.
This is a city where people buy in a Mies building and decorate it in a victorian style with crown moldings.
chicagobull, real estate analysis makes only sense within a context. And the few established people I got the chance to know in my life do not show off in the way you do which drives me to the conclusion that you are either b.s. or a nouveau riche-your money can get you pretty much anywhere, but not your attitude my dear.
Thanks for the insult. You are so very -virtually, brave.
“my biggest gripe about Chicago”
is that everyone looks alike, majority overweight. Damn those top tier restaurants!
I’ve lived in this area for a long time, and feel like I had a pretty good handle on the market, but these prices really did surprise me. There was a brand new place 3/3 with similar finishes and size in a 4-story just west of here on Webster this past spring listed for $750K that I toured… and that place actually had a legit balcony. At the time I would have considered offering $625K for it… guess I was way off.
The arrogant old money personas are my favorite of all on this site, because old money arrogance just doesn’t care, and I can respect that. Very Marie Antoinette “let them eat cake”. I love it.
However, it almost always degrades into insults and personal attacks on vicious levels unheard of. The older money folks here seem to always seem to personally attack which underscores the muted purpose of old money arrogance. I sincerely hope you don’t degrade into that.
“#Spinoza on January 31st, 2011 at 1:41 pm
“I could not agree more. After living in several large cities, including NYC, this is my biggest gripe about Chicago. People do not integrate racially or socioeconomically b/c they are too scared to do something new. Too scared to think outside of the box”
Most Chicagoans and midwesterners have absolutely no taste. They just want to have what their parents had, if they have money, they’ll make it more over the top and ugly, that’s the only change you will be looking.
This is a city where people buy in a Mies building and decorate it in a victorian style with crown moldings.
#
Spinoza on January 31st, 2011 at 1:45 pm
chicagobull, real estate analysis makes only sense within a context. And the few established people I got the chance to know in my life do not show off in the way you do which drives me to the conclusion that you are either b.s. or a nouveau riche-your money can get you pretty much anywhere, but not your attitude my dear.
Thanks for the insult. You are so very -virtually, brave.”
“This is a city where people buy in a Mies building and decorate it in a victorian style with crown moldings.”
Now, let’s not make it all negative though. There are occasional moments of clarity as well, of course. After all, this is the city of Mies, and there is a house built by Tado Ando as well and many more-not too much properties like that…
Joe I,
if you do like modern, and you are in a position to buy something unique in few years, follow Ranquist. To my knowledge, they are the best modern builder in the city.
‘You’re right, Spiner, I’m clueless. That’s why I own in ELP and would never, ever, ever live in this location.’
People of live in ELP, never *ever* call the neighborhood ELP as there is no such place; a star taped on your hood does not make it an S class. You’ve given yourself away ChicagoBull.
“but these prices really did surprise me”
Try goin to NYC JP$. Just got back and I was aware that prices were inflated there, but oh man, did I underestimate. 2M for a 1,000 sq ft 1bdrm coverted warehouse with a balcony and a view, no prkg!
what bothers me more than anything else are the generalizations people make about rich people. not all rich people want to live in River North or the GC. not all rich people work at big law, finance, or have a trust fund.
some people prefer the more laid back atmosphere you get in ELP or even (gasp) WLP. not everyone with money works in the loop, wants to pop bottles on the weekends at Underground, or needs to ever even go south of North Ave.
now, we’ve seen some pretty lol nice properties in mediocre hoods (that castle comes to mind) that were clearly a product of some ignorant bubble developer. this building, IMO, doesn’t fall into that category. not even close.
tay,
very well said.
Builder builds a good product. Realtor is a seasoned professional. Location is solid. Result: Brisk sales at premium prices.
Cribhater speculation is nonsense as usual.
Bradford,
I don’t think that type of common sense would be well received around here. Please do watch out. -no sarcasm intended.
“Most Chicagoans and midwesterners have absolutely no taste.”
You couldn’t afford to live on the coasts, could you, andy? Why else would you want to be here?
“p.s. so far you strike me off as more of a wannabe then an actual ELP’er. ”
Ahahaha!
“It’s like you know how to count all the brand name clothing lines, but that doesn’t mean you can actually afford/buy them of course.”
LOLz! Thanks for the multiple laughs. Its clear your trying to invent a brand with the ELP thing. But you aren’t much of an influencer are ya?
Spinoza said
“Joe I,
if you do like modern, and you are in a position to buy something unique in few years, follow Ranquist. To my knowledge, they are the best modern builder in the city.”
Thanks. We’re not big on modern – lives too cluttered/hectic to make it look good. We prefer warmer/older with wood and leather and even fireplaces! My man cave would be a study/library with vents to suck out cigar smoke. So, kind of the exact opposite of modern, I guess.
“Most Chicagoans and midwesterners have absolutely no taste. They just want to have what their parents had, if they have money, they’ll make it more over the top and ugly, that’s the only change you will be looking.”
Living on the east coast does not give you “taste”. Jersey Shore – need I say more. Perhaps living in certain sections of NYC. Most places on the east coast – EVERYTHING is vintage. Having central A/C for the first time when I moved to Midwest was a huge novelty. Forget about what their parents on the east coast, most of them are going with what their grand parents had.
I agree with Flanders. Housing stock in East Coast cities I’ve lived in is very old compared to Chicago. Windows on the side in the city and some kind of dedicated parking would be a luxury in my mind. Plus you have to drag your trash to the front of your house. Obviously exclude large scale apartment/condo/co ops from this.
Perhaps the gals of Corepower Yoga (located directly across the street) add a certain value to a certain type of buyer.
“Perhaps the gals of Corepower Yoga (located directly across the street) add a certain value to a certain type of buyer.”
Sold. Do the girls come with the property? jk.
“Also worth noting re: this building is that the E side should command a premium to the W. Notice the bay windows that are only on one side of the building and also an additional buffer from the El tracks that are a block West.”
Tay, you got things flipped. The tracks are east, to go with the bays. Westside has the sound buffer, but the lightwell instead of bays. I’d take the noise.
But, as I said in the prior, I think these places, especially the Ws would live like deluxe 2+ dens, rather than “real” 3 brs.
Living on the east coast does not give you “taste”.
Who said, I came from the east coast? Besides, if we are talking about good taste, it is not exclusive of any price point or geoography. Most of those co-ops, whether in NY or ELSD in Chicago are decorated in ridiclously over the top, horrific stuff a la Trump’s own residence in NYC…
One doesn’t have to be of a certain economic strata to state an opinion on good taste.
Coast lines, universally, always attract more diversity in terms of the people who live there, more international people, etc. that’s why a developer can take the risk of building a Richard Meier building in NYC. And even though Chicago is one of the wealthiest cities in the world, at the end it is not as wealthy as NYC. And that affects and determines everything. In Chicago, very few developers would be willing to undertake the risk to build another Contemporaine, because people are much more conservative in nature and it would be too much of a niche product, just too risky to build.
wow, all the points you’z are tying to make about ELP or WLP means nothing and just show everyone that the people who live in all LP are just fake snooty cocks.
“Coast lines, universally, always attract more diversity in terms of the people who live there, more international people, etc.”
Enh, depends how broadly one defines “coast line”, as London would disprove that. And Paris v. Marseille doesn’t support it.
Also, that’s at least somewhat an accident of several millenia where the easiest way to get from A to B was via water, rather than a necessary state of things–a city that is an international port of call/arrival will be more diverse than a city that is not.
“a faux-parisian building designed by Lucien LaGrange. I wish people had the wisdom to leave what belongs to Paris, in Paris.”
I take you think Lucien should have stayed in Paris, as his buildings don’t belong there, either.
Anon, you said it: it’s all about transportation means combined with some historical elemets. Raison d’etre of Paris was always strategic, and still to this day, it is the centre of all transportation in France. London, is very similar. It is an island thus historically very vulnerable to attacks from the coast lines, and guess what would happen if you put the palace on the water front because the King and the Queen wanted to enjoy some water views, I suppose there would be no Britannia today.
The reason Chicago has become so wealthy, historically, because it was chosen/operated as the transportation hub of the entire inland U.S. and it still is today to a large extend.
anon (tfo)-
my bad. tracks are on the east. noise isn’t bad though, i’ve spent a pretty good amount of time in one of the e. units and the noise hasn’t ever been much of an issue.
anon, I would never say that as I believe he is an American citizen-albeit of French decent. He is free to go whereever he wants to 🙂
Joe I,
You have so much class. I am impressed.
Spinoza:
He was born in France. Maybe he’s a citizen, I care not. But his aesthetic would probably be *more* inappropriate in Paris.
The first and formost reason chicago grew was the canals that connected the chicago river to the illinois river which led all the way to the mississippi. All things great lakes/st lawrence seaway went eventually went through Chicago. The railways converged here to hit the water ports; stockyards, etc. The fire that burned teh city down was an opportunity for architects around the world to come to chicago to rebuild from the ground up and build the first brick skyscrapers
“The reason Chicago has become so wealthy, historically, because it
was chosen/operated as the transportation hub of the entire inland U.S. and it still is today to a large extend.”
anon,
Absolutely!
HD,
That’s exactly my point.
“All things great lakes/st lawrence seaway went eventually went through Chicago.”
Erie Canal. The St Lawrence Seaway wasn’t completed until long after the I&M was nothing more than an open sewer.
“The first and formost reason chicago grew was the canals that connected the chicago river to the illinois river which led all the way to the mississippi. ”
If you had to build a city on the Great Lakes, as they did for transportation, the best place is Chicago. Its the most southerly point that isn’t subject to (much) lake effect snow.
These were the traders I was talking about, when we were chatting about that Lakeview penthouse that had the putting green on the roof. There are so many in city (as I said Chicago is to trading as Vegas is to gambling). I actually think that they are an important part of the real estate market in this city. And bachelors do buy 3 bed units, why not? most don’t want to be bachelors there whole life. It would be interesing to see how many people in lincoln park are in finance, Id be willing to go as high as 10%.
“Id be willing to go as high as 10%.”
let me add, that is of properties over 500k
Russ for Mayor.
I’m with ChicagoBull, who care’s about comps? (And don’t question my mental capacity dude, the “realtard” slur is lazy). Also, I’ve taken some heat for saying I’d live in my area of Lincoln Square, my house being equal, than in most of Lakeview and Lincoln Park (with the exception of true ELP). But that’s me.
BUT if you do care about comps, there’s some I’d argue at 1307 W Wrightwood selling during the same time… and same agent, and my same company…so I take some credit.
This is about young and cash and spending it where they want. The chicks are less maintenance in this part of Lincoln Park too compared to ELP and GC.
I have had a trader client up his budget by $150K immediately after a bonus and bought the nicest thing he saw quickly. They now rent that place out and they bought a single family in the burbs in the same manner. Money hits, BAM, they buy.
“I have had a trader client up his budget by $150K immediately after a bonus and bought the nicest thing he saw quickly. They now rent that place out and they bought a single family in the burbs in the same manner. Money hits, BAM, they buy.”
Easy come, easy go.
“Easy come, easy go.”
Traders, while some may blow up and go broke, the majority are taught to be smart with their money. It’s not like the NFL where 80% go broke after 2yrs of retirement.
and so what if they want to park some of their cash in real estate? it helps diversify their portfolio and maybe even put a roof over there heads in the mean time
That’s not necessarily true. I’ve personally known plenty of traders in my life. I spent a considerable part of my undergraduate years working part and full-time for a company that employed traders, provided research to traders and was located at the board of trade. Nobody teaches the anything and most of them fail. This of course was during the days of open outcry. In fact I just filed the BK for a failed trader last year.
“#flo on January 31st, 2011 at 5:50 pm
“Easy come, easy go.”
Traders, while some may blow up and go broke, the majority are taught to be smart with their money. It’s not like the NFL where 80% go broke after 2yrs of retirement.”
Parking cash? At these prices its more akin to flushing it down the toilet. Live big, spend big.
“#flo on January 31st, 2011 at 6:02 pm
and so what if they want to park some of their cash in real estate? it helps diversify their portfolio and maybe even put a roof over there heads in the mean time”
Wow…these units are pretty nice. Interesing how fast it sold though.
“Parking cash? At these prices its more akin to flushing it down the toilet”
again HD – your opinion – not fact.
The golden days of trading are done. There are far more older dudes used to the good old days who will never make above $100k again now that electronic trading has taken over than there are young guns getting rich for the first time. I’m not saying there aren’t a few of the latter, but the reports of them being a driving force in Chicago’s real estate market are exagerated.
History will prove this a fact.
“#clio on January 31st, 2011 at 7:05 pm
“Parking cash? At these prices its more akin to flushing it down the toilet”
again HD – your opinion – not fact.”
“That’s not necessarily true. I’ve personally known plenty of traders in my life. I spent a considerable part of my undergraduate years working part and full-time for a company that employed traders, provided research to traders and was located at the board of trade. Nobody teaches the anything and most of them fail. This of course was during the days of open outcry. In fact I just filed the BK for a failed trader last year.”
the odds of success are not in a beginners favor, that I can accept. But that doesnt mean that there are not plenty of successful ones
and the differnece is…
so if they are not trading oil, they then become the ones that are pumping it? Most people trade for awhile and then do something else, either bc they made a ton of money that gives them freedom or bc they get burned out/forced out. There are plenty of traders with law/masters degrees to fall back on. they had previous careers and try to trade. they have more workforce skills then an average pro athlete. I know a guy that left his law practice to start up a hedge fund a couple years ago. so, if his trading doesnt work out he goes back to practicing law. and he makes it big, he has been doing well, putting some of his cash in a house today might be a good call, a way to diversify, put roof over his head…who know this could turn into a great inflation hedge?
” I’m not saying there aren’t a few of the latter, but the reports of them being a driving force in Chicago’s real estate market are exagerated.”
dont think anyone said they are the driving force, just that they shouldn’t be dismissed from the market all together bc this is Chicago.
“People of live in ELP, never *ever* call the neighborhood ELP as there is no such place; a star taped on your hood does not make it an S class. You’ve given yourself away ChicagoBull.”
ELP is actually starting to become a trending industry term to designate “good” Lincoln Park from Central or Western Lincoln Park because the n00bs get confused. “I live in Lincoln Park — Bosworth and Wrightwood!” So while it’s not common on the street, it’s common in places where people discuss real estate, like, oh, CribChatter?!
ELP trends to make a distinction in a more exclusive identifier. It’s like the inverse of what the “Clarendon Park” types are trying to do by scrubbing “Uptown” out of it.
“History will prove this a fact”
oh – OK – when you put it like that, it is much more credible and scientific.
A trader bought in this building An expensive unit. You can find yourself a picture of the young purchaser from 2008, disheveled hair and all, wearing the orange jacket and all, with a simple internet search. Must be nice to be in an industry that skims , well, so am I but i don’t quite make that much money.
“flo on January 31st, 2011 at 7:48 pm
” I’m not saying there aren’t a few of the latter, but the reports of them being a driving force in Chicago’s real estate market are exagerated.”
dont think anyone said they are the driving force, just that they shouldn’t be dismissed from the market all together bc this is Chicago.”
@HD, Man, you are good with your snooping. I am impressed. BTW, the guy is cute. I hope he will enjoy his new place : )
“You can find yourself a picture of the young purchaser from 2008, disheveled hair and all, wearing the orange jacket and all”
” the majority are taught to be smart with their money”
yeahhh…not so true. I just got back from NY because of the little UWBK stink (sry abt that folks) where my friend, a former investment banker turned hedgy trader, lost S E V E N figures in one sitting on one piece of bad news. That’s right folks, over 1M dollars. This kid is still in his 20’s might I add. So needless to say he was a bit, well, discouraged. He WAS looking at 5M dollar 2 bedrooms but has since re-considered down to a more *reasonable* 1-2M….watch him still spend 5M and finance 4M of it.
Traders are not responsible with their money because they are never satisfied and always believe they can turn what they have into more.
…and traders do not fuel Chicago. You can trade from anywhere that has an internet connection, from your phone!
Chicagoians fuel Chicago. More people are from here than any major city in the US I feel. Go to NYC and most likely that person is not from NY. Go to LA and no one is actually from LA (as the saying goes). Ask in Chicago…
“@HD, Man, you are good with your snooping. I am impressed”
miumiu – don’t get too close to HD – he will out you as well!!! seriously, this is where he gets his sense of power/authority. It is kind of pathetic – but to each his own….
yes traders are taught to take risk, but your example says nothing about how he was not smart with his money. had he bought the 5M dollar place then lost it maybe, but who knows now he might rethink and buy one the the last remain units in this building cash?
“…and traders do not fuel Chicago. You can trade from anywhere that has an internet connection, from your phone!”
again, nobody said that the fuel Chicago, just that they are a part of it. And chicago happens to be home to several exchanges. A lot of today game is speed, and I doubt the ATT signal from the iphone could beat a t1 line to the exchange. even a fast internet connection can be too slow.
people actually try to stay closer to the exchanges so the data has less distance to travel
Thanks for the heads up Clio. It is not nice to out people unless they themselves choose so.
“Ask in Chicago…”
Young people in the GZ seldom have a 773 number (and few actually grow up in 312). Yet for some reason people with an 847, 224, 331, 630 & 708 area codes frequently claim to be from “Chicago” as well. Somewhere in there the “land” gets truncated in where they’re from.
Where does that leave 872, Bob? 🙁
flo – agree on the speed issue but I doubt half these guys are the high freq type or in it for the split-second. Then again, who knows? And yes, my friends, myself, we lost a pretty good chunck of change, him especially, that’s the exact dinfition of not being smart with your money, betting high on a lotto ticket? Cmon, man…
to your example, purchasing a 5M home then loosing it has less to do with smart or responsibility. Higher powers than one’s intelligence can bring that house of cards down (reference: current housing situation in US).
Betting big on a small bank about to fail? It’s irresponsible and dumb. Buyng a 5M piece of property, with that 1M dp that was eatin by the Nasdaq? It’s smart-er (relatively speaking).
Bob – If I am from within 50 miles of Chicago and I travel anywhere…I am from Chicago.
No one knows or gives one if you are from Naperville, Schaumburg, or Highland Park.
Its just easier to say Chicago.
I’ve never outed anybody nor will I ever do so.
The trader who bought the instant unit is easily discoverable through the ccrd record and a google search. It’s not rocket science here, I don’t have crazy access to proprietary databases and data dumps like G.
My angle is that I know how to read the ccrd, and I’m familiar enough with financing and real estate law … and most importantly, I recognize that debt does not equal wealth.
Like a-fed said, his buddy will buy a $5,000,000 home and finance $4,000,000. Debt does not equal wealth. A-fed recognizes that.
“clio on January 31st, 2011 at 8:49 pm
“@HD, Man, you are good with your snooping. I am impressed”
miumiu – don’t get too close to HD – he will out you as well!!! seriously, this is where he gets his sense of power/authority. It is kind of pathetic – but to each his own….”
“flo – agree on the speed issue but I doubt half these guys are the high freq type or in it for the split-second”
the trader is technology trader so it is relevant.
And yes, my friends, myself, we lost a pretty good chunck of change, him especially, that’s the exact dinfition of not being smart with your money, betting high on a lotto ticket? Cmon, man…
depends on how much/big pot you were risking is. A 1M dollar loss is only 1% if the hedge fund had a 100M in it, of which at one point there was over 2,000 with that much. Maybe, the potential reward was 5M, I wouldn’t consider that dumb. Losses are part of the game, there is no other way around it.
“Betting big on a small bank about to fail? It’s irresponsible and dumb. Buyng a 5M piece of property, with that 1M dp that was eatin by the Nasdaq? It’s smart-er (relatively speaking).”
Well thats how that huge mansion on larabee and dickens just went up. with betting big on a big bank to fail, and did (Lehman). and that 1M dp wouldnt be eaten up by Nasdaq because you used it as a dp.
“Losses are part of the game, there is no other way around it. ”
Except for HTF traders which have admitted they rarely have a losing day and never a losing week.
Or the TBTF banks which admitted recently that their trading operations have losing quarters.
Or paulsen or magnetar who got to prepackage subprime loans into AAA securities which they were granted the first authority to short
or goldman sachs that gets to front run the fed’s bond buying operations
or the banks who borrow at near zero and loan to consumers at 15% on their credit cards
etc
Or the TBTF banks which admitted recently that their trading operations have perfect quarters. that’s what I meant to say
“or goldman sachs that gets to front run the fed’s bond buying operations”
All broker dealers got to front run the fed’s bond buying operation. It was a stealth bailout to Wall Street and that’s all it really was designed to be.
please, all have had losers or will in the future.
They just have more winners than losers
and yes some people are smart/connected enough to find edge in the markets.
who is building the castle on dickens?
hd i think all the BK work you do is seriously making you crazy.
of course most traders lose money. a fk ton of people try to become traders and most fail. many don’t understand how to manage risk, many can’t deal with the pressure, whatever it is, most do fail.
so what is your point? the ones that don’t fail either got really lucky or actually know WTF they are doing…probably a combination of both. those people can afford places like these.
i would however like to know what is going on with unit 3e. looks like no money down. how is that even possible?
@ boiztwn –
‘ELP is actually starting to become a trending industry term to designate “good” Lincoln Park from Central or Western Lincoln Park because the n00bs get confused. “I live in Lincoln Park — Bosworth and Wrightwood!” So while it’s not common on the street, it’s common in places where people discuss real estate, like, oh, CribChatter?!’
No, no, no boiztwn… please stop. Nobody, I mean nobody who lives in ‘ELP’ calls it that; I’ve lived in the same ‘ELP’ house for 20 years, and I promise you none of my neighbors call it that. It’s LP plain and simple; we know where we live. West of Halsted is Sheffield, OT.. well you get the idea. It’s a dead give away that a broker knows nothing about LP (and nothing of the older buildings it contains) when they use the term ‘ELP’. Run from them, do not trust them with your money. It’s like the time a couple was trying to prove their knowledge of world travel when they told me they just loved staying at the Ritz Carlton in downtown Paris. No such hotel, no such place.
Anyone who claims to be looking to buy in ‘ELP’ is just that… always looking, never buying. Anyone who discusses ‘real estate, like oh, Cribchatter?!’ is just that… discussing, with little useful knowledge of the real neighborhood. Be warned.
“It’s like the time a couple was trying to prove their knowledge of world travel when they told me they just loved staying at the Ritz Carlton in downtown Paris. No such hotel, no such place.”
So they don’t know that the Ritz isn’t a Ritz Carlton and that “downtown” isn’t the right way to describe anyplace in Paris. Did you really not understand what they were talking about?
“Show me a building with a cross section of the upper -middle class, with doctors, lawyers, finance types, accountants, small business owners, engineers, etc. Please for the love of god don’t extrapolate a building full of finance types into the market as a whole”
You realize homedelete that
1) Chicago is one of the major financial hubs of the world, even more so for Trading. So… you are going to have a lot of traders in this city, like you would have a lot of actors in LA.
2) How are traders / finance types any worse than a building full of accountants or lawyers? At least traders can somewhat argue they provide liquidity and help fuel capitalism. Accountants and lawyers only exist from laws, regulation, and strain put on the economy by government. I would be way more scared of buildings full of accountants and lawyers.
“Nobody, I mean nobody who lives in ‘ELP’ calls it that.”
Jay, I agree. However, as a useful shorthand (be it in discussions on CC or with real estate brokers), it has its place, increasingly so. Places like the “Southport Corridor,” etc. now serve as a useful shorthand, again, mainly for discussing real estate.
While Halsted is often considered the arbitrary western border, I would submit that “ELP” tends to feel more and less “ELP-like” depending on where the property is in terms of north and south. If a prospective buyer engages a broker and says, “find me places in ELP,” a good broker – with a finger on the pulse of today’s market, not the market of 20 years ago – would know what that means. And yes, if that person ends up buying one of those places, he or she won’t refer to it as ELP (at least we can hope not).
As for these places on Webster, they’re very nice, as they should be for the price.
“It’s like the time a couple was trying to prove their knowledge of world travel when they told me they just loved staying at the Ritz Carlton in downtown Paris. No such hotel, no such place.”
Maybe those people were talking about “The Ritz” which IS a hotel in downtown Paris and was where Princess Diana was staying the night she died. I could forgive someone for thinking it was part of the Ritz Carlton chain- since it IS one of the most famous hotels in Paris and has, essentially, the same name.
“Did you really not understand what they were talking about?”
I’m with you anon (tfo). It’s pretty obvious what those people were talking about.
It’s attitudes like this which is why some people don’t want to live anywhere near Lincoln Park!
ELP…WLP…Sheffield…haha, youse guys’ lack of true Chicago “roots” is showing!
A “real” Chicagoan would say that the Webster/Sheffield building is in “St. Vincent’s” after the nearby Catholic church. Even non-Catholics were known to describe their environs in terms of the local Catholic parish in the old days.
And ELP would be known as “St. Teresa’s.”
About the only remnant of that practice that’s still around today is “St Ben’s” as an alternative to “North Center.”
BTW could it be that at least some of the money that was used to buy these condos has some “powder” on it? As I understand it, both traders and college kids have certain “appetites” that a careful “entrepreneur” could do very well by providing what the customers want, in the privacy of his home rather than on some street corner.
Yeah I don’t think coke dealers are buying half million dollar condos In Lincoln park just yet chitowngal.
Also, labeling someone a real “Chicagoan” based on the terminology they use to describe a section of a neighborhood in a part of the city is stupid. Not every Chicagoan is 100 years old and knows every slang or nickname for every corner of the city. Nicknames are pointless. Lincoln park is just Lincoln park, not at vincents or wlp or Sheffield. The south loop is the south loop, not satans mile or crack corner, as it
Was called 20 years ago.
My point in this discussion is that here we have a building, and of the three identifiable owners, three are involved in finance, one being a trader and two being analysts. This is what economic recovery looks like: high income 20 and 30 somethings in finance related careers. In times past recovery has been different. This time recovery has meant that the finance sector gets free money with the hope that it will eventually prop up asset prices. And that’s evidenced by the fact that three finance types all bought expensive new construction in LP.
“#Greg on February 1st, 2011 at 6:16 am
“Show me a building with a cross section of the upper -middle class, with doctors, lawyers, finance types, accountants, small business owners, engineers, etc. Please for the love of god don’t extrapolate a building full of finance types into the market as a whole”
You realize homedelete that
1) Chicago is one of the major financial hubs of the world, even more so for Trading. So… you are going to have a lot of traders in this city, like you would have a lot of actors in LA.
2) How are traders / finance types any worse than a building full of accountants or lawyers? At least traders can somewhat argue they provide liquidity and help fuel capitalism. Accountants and lawyers only exist from laws, regulation, and strain put on the economy by government. I would be way more scared of buildings full of accountants and lawyers.
“
sounds like sour grapes HD
and his idea of the recovery would actually be pretty smart if that was the case. This is becasue, as the board as noted, these are the people that actually spend the money instead of hording it and doing nothing with it. and spending is healthy for any recovery.
how do these purchases, if we were to call them knifecatchers, benefit me in the future?
Sonies, it’s not sour grapes, it’s anger and disgust with the current system….there are plenty of names for it:
Crony capitalism;
heads I win, tails you lose;
privatize the profits, socialize the losses.
These are all concepts that have been perfected this recession.
Are you saying that it’s fair that 42,000,000 people are on food stamps but the guy who graduated a big ten school with a business degree is allowed to keep a disproportionate share of the wealth? How is that fair?
“#Sonies on February 1st, 2011 at 9:08 am
sounds like sour grapes HD”
“Are you saying that it’s fair that 42,000,000 people are on food stamps but the guy who graduated a big ten school with a business degree is allowed to keep a disproportionate share of the wealth? How is that fair? ”
Yeah- that is terrible. Also, how dare people that work 100 hours a week get paid any more than the people on welfare. While we are at it… it is also unfair that people get to live on ELSD and enjoy lake views while there are unemployed people with no views in public housing……
HD
“Are you saying that it’s fair that 42,000,000 people are on food stamps but the guy who graduated a big ten school with a business degree is allowed to keep a disproportionate share of the wealth? How is that fair? ”
Clio
“Yeah- that is terrible. Also, how dare people that work 100 hours a week get paid any more than the people on welfare. While we are at it… it is also unfair that people get to live on ELSD and enjoy lake views while there are unemployed people with no views in public housing”
this goes against every bone in my body and is the hardest thing i ever had to say but i agree with clio on this one,
HD – get a clue
“This is what economic recovery looks like: high income 20 and 30 somethings in finance related careers. In times past recovery has been different. This time recovery has meant that the finance sector gets free money with the hope that it will eventually prop up asset prices.”
I completely agree with this statement. Well said HD.
Ha! Who says they’re working 100 a week?
And why does working 100 hours a week in a ‘chosen’ profession like finance entitle finance types to obscene incomes?
http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aNGwv_XSgW1s
Traders Beat Surgeons on Pay as Gap Survives Crisis
By Danielle Kucera and Christine Harper
Jan. 13 (Bloomberg) — Wall Street traders discouraged by declining bonuses this month can take solace: They still earn much more than brain surgeons and top U.S. generals.
An oil trader with 10 years in the business is likely to earn at least $1 million this year, while a neurosurgeon with similar time on the job makes less than $600,000, recruiters estimated. After a decade of deal-making, merger bankers take home about $2 million, more than 10 times what a similarly seasoned cancer researcher gets (see table below).
Job Description Estimated Pay Source
M&A banker with 10 $2 Million Jeanne Branthover,
years experience Boyden Global
Executive Search
Bank oil trader $1 Million George Stein,
with 10 years Commodity Talent LLC
experience
Corporate bond trader $1 Million Jeanne Branthover,
with 10 years Boyden Global
experience Executive Search
Neurosurgeon with 8-17 $571,000 Rob D’Angelo,
years experience Olesky Associates Inc.
Law firm partner with $600,000 Jeffrey Lowe,
10 Years experience Major Lindsey & Africa
Four-star general $185,000 Tom LaRock, Defense
with more than Finance and
34 years experience Accounting Services
Cancer researcher $110,000 to Rick Hennessey
with 10 years $160,000 Commonwealth Sciences
experience Inc.
Aerospace engineer $100,000 Peter Bohner,
with 5 to 10 years Marymont Group
experience
Architect with 10 $80,000 to Lonny Rossman,
years experience $100,000 API Partners LLC
“#Sonies on February 1st, 2011 at 10:17 am
HD – get a clue”
“how do these purchases, if we were to call them knifecatchers, benefit me in the future?”
not sure about you personally, but they hire lawyers to complete the transaction, home inspectors, real estate agents, accountants, contracotrs, then maybe a door man, plumber, eletrician, painter, then you need to furnish the place, so all those stores and their emplyees, home depot, and now you need a car to to transport all the stuff….so pretty much anything and everybody, and then if you gonna call them a knifecatcher will sell it to you for cheaper, but it unlikely that youll ever buy so they will rent it to you. then they will hire movers, cleaning people, rental agency, and put a roof over you head for a fraction of the cost. Not sure if that was what you were asking?
The prices the knifecatchers pay create sign posts for the rest of us on the way down. Like G says, someone has to take the losses in the future and it may as well be the knifecatchers. Our children will thank them for it.
“#flo on February 1st, 2011 at 10:28 am
“how do these purchases, if we were to call them knifecatchers, benefit me in the future?”
not sure about you personally, but they hire lawyers to complete the transaction, home inspectors, real estate agents, accountants, contracotrs, then maybe a door man, plumber, eletrician, painter, then you need to furnish the place, so all those stores and their emplyees, home depot, and now you need a car to to transport all the stuff….so pretty much anything and everybody, and then if you gonna call them a knifecatcher will sell it to you for cheaper, but it unlikely that youll ever buy so they will rent it to you. then they will hire movers, cleaning people, rental agency, and put a roof over you head for a fraction of the cost. Not sure if that was what you were asking?”
“Ha! Who says they’re working 100 a week?”
Most of the guys I know in the financial industry log 80-100 hours /wk.
and sorry about the spelling i was typing while walking and just got it down quick
I have to agree with some of what HD says though, the amount of bonuses some of these folks get after all the disaster with banking system is not comprehensible for me. If researchers or doctors make a mess and start a pandemic, they won’t then get million dollar bonuses to stop it with help of others. Why are the bankers exceptions? Believing in free market economy does not mean there should be no rules or regulations what so ever. Also people on welfare are extreme examples. There are many hard working people who are struggling in this economy.
40 hours /wk will only get you fired, regardless of what industry you are in.
Finance is the ‘chosen’ industry. There is a revolving door between bankers and high level government officials (and the fed). It’s no surprise that all things finance are doing very very well. In the medieval times the chosen profession was the clergy. The employees of the Catholic Church was very wealthy and enjoyed great benefits and power among the nobility. The clergy had powerful positions within government and the military. Sometimes the pope even hired his own mercenary army to conquer the ‘papal states’ as it was called in italy.
“Ha! Who says they’re working 100 a week?”
as someone with firsthand working experience in the finance industry… I’ll say that.
And who determines what is obscene pay? you? get a grip… I can come up with millions of instances of lawyers being overpaid for merely being drags on society as a whole.
At least traders make money for institutions to then invest in other economic activity… what have lawyers done besides be middlemen leeches? They certainly haven’t created any useful laws, or done anything to benefit society.
I also don’t quite get what your point is, listing all those jobs… are you saying that professionals that are good at their job with decades of experience shouldn’t be paid well?
“40 hours /wk will only get you fired, regardless of what industry you are in.”
Of all the things you’ve posted that I don’t necessarily agree with, this is the one that I just have to call BS on.
Today it is finance. Whether it be trading, research, analysis, brokering, investing, or sales; the finance profession is clearly the profession that made out the best in this crisis. Which is so crazy because a lot people think it was the banking and finance industry that was responsible for the crisis in the first place.
Sonies, if you comprehend the point of the chart and of the article then there is simply no hope for you.
“The prices the knifecatchers pay create sign posts for the rest of us on the way down. Like G says, someone has to take the losses in the future and it may as well be the knifecatchers. Our children will thank them for it. ”
You’re getting G’s point muddled.
The point is that the knifecatchers are reducing the losses that are being socialized and contributing their own money directly into the bank bailout and taking some inventory off the market for a while all of which will help the banks move more REO, thus further limiting their losses and reducing the future burden on taxpayers. A virtuous cycle.
At least, that’s the theory.
Sonies, if you cannot comprehend the point of the chart and of the article then there is simply no hope for you. (typo correction)
This is what is obscene to me:
“In 1970, CEO salary and bonus packages were typically about $700,000 – 25 times the average production worker salary; by 2000, CEO salaries had jumped to almost $2.2 million on average, 90 times the average salary of a worker, according to a 2004 study on CEO pay by Kevin J. Murphy and Jan Zabojnik. Toss in stock options and other benefits, and the salary of a CEO is nearly 500 times the average worker salary, the study says.”
Country is worse off than it was in seventies and the salaries of top earners is way out of whack. It reminds me of all falling empires in the history when wealth disparity becomes intolerable. While higher salaries for productive people are healthy part of the economy, having out of proportion compensations even in face of failures does not make sense.
miumiu – according to some people – primarily CEO’s – this is perfectly OK.
anon(tfo) not muddled, but simplified.
Also in case you didn’t know, most of these traders (about 95% of them) fail and all of them pony up a large chunk of their own cash to trade
you are once again comparing an orange to an apple (4 star general, really? LOL) and trying to extrapolate it to fit your arguement as you see fit. (you really should have chosen a different profession as your arguing skills blow)
Well, I am sure inquisition was fine with clerics in medieval times too. History will tell how this will end too.
“anon(tfo) not muddled, but simplified.”
It has *nothing* to do with signposting values on the way down. Nothing.
Take up your four star general argument with bloomberg, not me. I didn’t write the article.
“#Sonies on February 1st, 2011 at 10:48 am
Also in case you didn’t know, most of these traders (about 95% of them) fail and all of them pony up a large chunk of their own cash to trade
you are once again comparing an orange to an apple (4 star general, really? LOL) and trying to extrapolate it to fit your arguement as you see fit. (you really should have chosen a different profession as your arguing skills blow)”
“Of all the things you’ve posted that I don’t necessarily agree with, this is the one that I just have to call BS on.”
Really? How many hours do you work a week? 40? I know someone half your age that will work for 10% less and put in twice the time….
anon(tfo) – i can’t find the link but iirc G specifically used the word signpost or sign or direction or something like that signifying price points on the way down. Without them we would not have price discovery
Anon (TFO) Try gettin a job with a major coporation and putting in 40hrs/wk. Watch how fast you either: a) get fired because you cannot complete all the work in that amount of time or b) get replaced by a younger, more ambitious worker.
Remember, companies that had huge layoffs in the past few years just combined job responsibilities for the workers. They did not hire new workers to assist in some of those added responsibilities.
And this is supposed to be a good thing? Legions of underpaid workers shuffling their children to daycare 50 or more hours a week so that the CEO can collect an outlandish sized paycheck?
I am generally very conservative in my nature and I believe in the free market, but there comes a point where ideology does not outweigh the practical realities of what is happening on the ground. I’m not advocating socialism but it blows my mind that all the wealth of the rich is made off the backs of the poor. A reasonable profit for sure, that’s the risk of running a business, the fat with the lean. But making a worker sacrifice raising a family or having children so that the shareholders can get an extra penny per share?
“#A-Fed on February 1st, 2011 at 10:59 am
Anon (TFO) Try gettin a job with a major coporation and putting in 40hrs/wk. Watch how fast you either: a) get fired because you cannot complete all the work in that amount of time or b) get replaced by a younger, more ambitious worker.
Remember, companies that had huge layoffs in the past few years just combined job responsibilities for the workers. They did not hire new workers to assist in some of those added responsibilities.”
“Anon (TFO) Try gettin a job with a major coporation and putting in 40hrs/wk.”
well, there’s always government work… and if you work 40 hrs a week for the gubermint, you’re on the fast track up to 6 figure pay in 5 years or less!!!
“Really? How many hours do you work a week? 40? I know someone half your age that will work for 10% less and put in twice the time….”
No, you don’t. Yes, I am sure of that. Because you don’t know what I do, nor do you know how old I am. And anyone who would put in twice the time I do for less money would be too stupid to keep the job for long.
Also, I am *surrounded* by people who are in the office *exactly* 40 hours per week and at absolutely no risk of being fired for job performance reasons. Have been everywhere I’ve ever worked.
thanks anon for the re-explanation; it does involve some belief that banks will act rationally. that there is enough cash to support the losses; and what i more hope for is that with some of the ‘premium sales’ that they will reduce prices futher on the lower end assets.
You obviously don’t work for the government because in this city/county/state its all about who you know and what have you done for me lately to get the 6 figure jobs in 5 years time. ask all of berrios’s staff who just got enormous pay raises.
“#Sonies on February 1st, 2011 at 11:06 am
“Anon (TFO) Try gettin a job with a major coporation and putting in 40hrs/wk.”
well, there’s always government work… and if you work 40 hrs a week for the gubermint, you’re on the fast track up to 6 figure pay in 5 years or less!!!”
you obviously completely missed my point, too
or quinn’s staff who got raises.
“thanks anon for the re-explanation; it does involve some belief that banks will act rationally. that there is enough cash to support the losses”
Well, the rationality thing is tough, because the reality of managing REO in the current situation where there are lots of reasons the banks can’t/don’t want to fairly value the REO makes it hard to generate the appropriate incentive structure
As to whether there’s enough cash, of course there is. It’s just a matter of what that USD gets us overseas.
HD –
LOL. so going to a big ten school and making more money than you do isn’t “fair?”
give me a freakin’ break.
if you think it’s that easy, quit your job and get into finance. oh wait, as you said, 90% of traders fail (which is roughly true), so it isn’t that easy. so what is your freaking point?
your beef should be with the government, not the people who are smart (or lucky) enough to pick the most lucrative careers and be able to enjoy the benefits that go along with that AND are willing to pump their money back into our economy.
btw, my friend that owns in this building doesn’t work in finance and neither do i. i have no stake in that industry and i don’t really care what happens one way or another — tbh it’s probably better for me if that industry as a whole sees a reduction in pay. your arguments are just ridiculous, especially coming from someone who seemingly should be able to create a logical argument.
Tay – they’re doing ‘God’s work’, right?
“No, you don’t. Yes, I am sure of that. Because you don’t know what I do, nor do you know how old I am. And anyone who would put in twice the time I do for less money would be too stupid to keep the job for long.”
It was a hypothetical comment, geared to the general audience. And don’t cite stupidity when keeping jobs, I know u know the unemployment numbers…I am making a point that there are people that will work more hours for less money. 40 hrs / wk will not cut it in many industries anymore.
“well, there’s always government work… and if you work 40 hrs a week for the gubermint, you’re on the fast track up to 6 figure pay in 5 years or less!!!””
Even people that work for the gov and putting in more than 40 hrs / wk because they know they can bank on OT.
“40 hrs / wk will not cut it in many industries anymore.”
That is true. Your hyperbole the first time bugged me tho.
I think we’re all irritated today. I know I am, and sonies’s appears to be too.
It’s the impending doom of the sno-pocalypse.
yes people won’t shut the fuck up about the blizzard and its irritating me, like I am some sort of dipshit that has such a boring life that I only have the weather to talk about
“yes people won’t shut the fuck up about the blizzard and its irritating me, like I am some sort of dipshit that has such a boring life that I only have the weather to talk about”
ahahahahahahahahahaha this just made my day!!!
So funny!!!
““40 hrs / wk will not cut it in many industries anymore.”
That is true. Your hyperbole the first time bugged me tho.”
Apologies if I offended you. When people say they *only* work 40 hrs / wk and believe that everyone else *only* works this, it’s very frustrating because now more than ever, you have to overachieve to keep your job or rather, have a chance for promotion.
Also, some companies aren’t even cutting OT for more than 40 hour work weeks because it’s “expected” now…
Instead of the weather, let’s pick up HD’s thread about finance professionals having a revolving door into government. Let’s compare the number of ex finance folks in government vs. ex practicing lawyers.
And yes, snowmaggedon is irritating me as well; flight cancelled for Wednesday.
“Apologies if I offended you.”
Not offended, but bugged me enough to comment on. Really low threshold, actually.
“Also, I am *surrounded* by people who are in the office *exactly* 40 hours per week and at absolutely no risk of being fired for job performance reasons”
actually i barely put in 40 hours a week, and will be going home in about an hour (dont want to deal with the snowmaggedon).
the hours i put in at my desk dont reflect the output i give the company.
The difference between lawyers working in the gov and finance is that there are thousand of law firms and only a handful of TBTF financial firms…
“Wicker on February 1st, 2011 at 12:37 pm
Instead of the weather, let’s pick up HD’s thread about finance professionals having a revolving door into government. Let’s compare the number of ex finance folks in government vs. ex practicing lawyers.
And yes, snowmaggedon is irritating me as well; flight cancelled for Wednesday.”
what the hell does that have to do with anything! there’s probably 10x as many actual lawyers than finance people in higher up government positions… and to be perfectly honest, we’d probably be a hell of a lot better off if we had more financial minded people in congress and other branches of the government becaue all these stupid braindead politician/lawyers care about is serving themselves and have zero clue the economic impact of their stupid government expansion policies.
Like when that nice hank paulson from goldman was running the treasury?
Hate to tell you guys but HD is right. The other day mention of Bear Stearns came up so I decided to google a gal who graduated a few years before me. She was a trader at BSC. She just bought a $1MM house in a tony burb (not NS).
You enrich yourself while gambling with stockholder monies and wind up deep sixing a corporation if its too little, or get a government bailout if its TBTF.
I truly believe the vast majority of Americans aren’t truly aware of what is going on these days. The financial sector as a proportion of our economy needs to shrink dramatically to adjust to the new reality but thanks to government bailouts.
They are like the clergy in the sense that if you don’t do what they say they threaten damnation (economic sense), even though there’s scant data to support that view.
Sonies, your argument is based on financial types knowing what they are doing which is not always true. Most of these folks have 2 year pathetic MBA degrees which gives them confidence without knowledge. If you talk to real finance and Econ gurus like GSB faculty, you would know that the MBA students are their laughing stock. The truth is that by taking 2 years worth of classes in many different areas, one becomes jack of all trades and master of none. Real knowledgeable people like GBS’s current dean Sunil Kumar are hardcore mathematicians not people who think game theory is about 2 people zero-sum games.
If medicine, engineering and sciences were as shallow as training of these folks in finance, I would for one stop taking planes, going to doctor, and driving over bridges or driving all together and retire to a farm.
“If medicine, engineering and sciences were as shallow as training of these folks in finance”
Social sciences have shallower training. And believe it or not their impact (via statism for both political parties in promoting home ownership) was likely nearly as contributory to our current quagmire as finance.
Empty Houses: Ownership Society is Over
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Empty-Houses-Ownership-cnbc-3543002734.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=5&asset=&ccode=
why would you ever drive as fast as you walk?
“why would you ever drive as fast as you walk?”
lol…good one
@Bob, cannot argue with that. You are right.
“social sciences have shallower training. And believe it or not their impact (via statism for both political parties in promoting home ownership) was likely nearly as contributory to our current quagmire as finance.”
Miumiu, you mean the professors that have never actually worked in the private sector a day in their life?
Russ, many of them consult on regular basis, but don’t get me wrong I am not saying real world experience is not important, but talking about planning economy of a country as Sonies said, requires more than taking a 2 year degree.
“I truly believe the vast majority of Americans aren’t truly aware of what is going on these days. The financial sector as a proportion of our economy needs to shrink dramatically to adjust to the new reality but thanks to government bailouts.”
only about 10% of chicago employment is in finance AND insurance, how much smaller do you think it should be?
“Hate to tell you guys but HD is right. The other day mention of Bear Stearns came up so I decided to google a gal who graduated a few years before me. She was a trader at BSC. She just bought a $1MM house in a tony burb (not NS).”
there are actually more women then men in the finance/insurance sector so this is not uncommon. people are rewarded for hard/smart work in this sector.
as for Chicago above 80% of the employed work over 35hrs a week, so that has become the norm.
An MBA is just another certificate to help pass through an ever tightening filter for access to “good” jobs. It’s intended to be a generalist degree; even the best programs are dedicated to spitting out practitioners, not academics.
I don’t think anyone in their right mind would expect an MBA from a top tier program like “GSB” (now “Booth” – named after an incredible successful money manager who got his MBA at GSB) to have the intellectual sophistication of one of their tenured Professors, and that’s not the intent of the program. The practitioner renamed the school. That says a lot.
In other words miumiu, what’s your point? That Gene Fama is smarter and better at math than likely all of his MBA students? Well, duh.
“real knowledgeable people” like Kumar are better people/more worthy/important to society than practitioners?
That, is much more debatable.
*his/her “right” mind. Sorry Sonies.
Sup dudes. I happen to be the guy from 4E. I’m loving the broad range of topics that my neighbors and myself have inspired y’all to discuss.
I figured I’d throw in a few thoughts:
1. I assumed I was getting a bad deal on my place. I was first in, got the top unit, roof, badass skyline view, bay windows, etc on new construction in what I feel is a great location. I was willing to overpay some to lock it down. It was a purchase for me and not an investment. I think that’s an important distinction.
1b. That being said, I was pretty happy to see I didn’t overpay as much as I thought relative to my neighbors. I thought they may get bang up deals compared to me and that wasn’t really the case.
2. I got two parking spots with my place. That bumped the price up 20-25k.
3. The location is perfect for me. I’m 25 and I run a couple websites. Our office is a 5 min walk away. I like to party so the bars are a good thing. The Depaul fitness center, yoga, food, etc is all great in my opinion. The church across the street is badass from the outside. I’ve yet to enter it so I can’t tell you about the inside.
4. The biggest downside (and really the only thing I’m not happy about) is the noise. Devil Dawgs is the devil. I hate that place. The food sucks and kids are loud at night. The L doesn’t bother me during the day, but can be obnoxious when you’re trying to sleep.
5. QE I/II is def pushing up the stock market.
6. Our government sucks.
7. The real estate market is almost definitely still overpriced by a decent clip.
8. Our economy is not in recovery and it’s possible we won’t see the good times again for many, many years. With that in mind, it’s really hard to go wrong with a long term loan fixed at below 5% Inflation will be a bitch at some point.
9. Vote for Ron Paul in 2012.
I will field questions if there is any interest.
Sincerely,
The 4th/unknown guy
Miumiu, most people in positions of power are incapable of understanding the true impacts of their decisions and policies, regardless of the degrees they hold. It is pretty obvious that we have too many attorneys in government imho.
Degrees are useful, but I don’t think anyone really believes they replace real world experience. I’ve worked with all kinds of Ph.Ds in Math, Sciences, Medicine, etc and half them couldn’t tie their shoes without help. The number of letters behind ones name says nothing about their “intelligence”.
@Joe I, my point is that way too many under-qualified people feel like expert in finance. I feel in other fields say medicine a technician does not feel like an expert in curing rare diseases but every Tom, Dick, and Harry with an MBA degree feels entitled to comment on fixing state of economy in a crisis which is way too complicated for their expertise.
@Russ, you are right but training in analytical fields at least gives a better basis for making logical decisions. Also more educated and knowledgeable folks are often humbler and more willing to listening to expert advice.
for the record, I don’t have an MBA… totally worthless in my field and I could think of about a million other things to waste 100k on… and the only thing i’m saying is that we would be a lot better off if LESS attorneys and more ‘finance types’ (note I didn’t say MBA’s, I meant people with business experience) were running the country instead of these stupid politician/lawyers
“Also more educated and knowledgeable folks are often humbler and more willing to listening to expert advice.”
hahaha funny stuff
“people are rewarded for hard/smart work in this sector.”
She was a high flying trader & MD at Bear Stearns. How did it work out for the owners of Bear Stearns?
“only about 10% of chicago employment is in finance AND insurance, how much smaller do you think it should be? ”
Wasn’t commenting specifically on Chicago, more generally across the country. In Chicago there are very few TBTF employed traders (maybe 10% of total by my guess or less) so not as big of a deal. In NYC TBTF-employed traders are probably at least 30-40% of all traders by my estimation.
“I feel in other fields say medicine a technician does not feel like an expert in curing rare diseases but every Tom, Dick, and Harry with an MBA degree feels entitled to comment on fixing state of economy in a crisis which is way too complicated for their expertise.”
I’d rather have MBAs have crafted the Dodd-Frank reform bill than Dodd & Frank and their lackeys. Dodd & Frank are lawyerly types whose prior policies resulted in the crisis. Its a lot like allowing the fox to re-build the new henhouse.
“why would you ever drive as fast as you walk?”
Some cars look better driving than some people walking in this city…
(I will resist from citing numerous ironically offensive, politically incorrect, and extremely stereotypical jokes in a Jon Stewart fashion.)
Correction: more like a Jon Stewart meets Jay leno fashion.
BTW, a grad degree is what you make of it. It can get you the interview, top of the pile, or thrown in with the rest of em all while teaching you more about a subject than you knew before. It is what you make of it.
“there are actually more women then men in the finance/insurance sector so this is not uncommon.”
What? Am I reading this correctly? This couldn’t be further from the truth- UNLESS you are counting only the insurance sector.
In “finance” women are completely the minority (from trading, to hedge funds, to mutual fund managers, to financial advisors, to the partnership of Goldman Sachs, to the attendees at Davos.)
4th guy sounds like he is the perfect resident for this place, I liked mcgees when i was that age though it was half the size it is now. are most of the other owners similarly young?
I can confirm that the 3 current residents are in the finance industry. They are all friendly and laid back people. I think they enjoy the location. I know one of my neighbors uses the Depaul gym as well. It’s really an awesome place to have right across the street. Excellent gym with racquetball and basketball courts. There a bunch of nice restaurants very close. I love the sushi at Sai Cafe at Armitage and Sheffield.
There are definitely college kids around, but I don’t see that as a terrible thing. McGees is kitty corner so its not like they are hanging out right by my building (except devil dawgs, damn I hate it). I think being on the 4th floor helps with the street noise but makes the L worse.
sabrina,
“there are actually more women then men in the finance/insurance sector so this is not uncommon.”
What? Am I reading this correctly? This couldn’t be further from the truth- UNLESS you are counting only the insurance sector.
In “finance” women are completely the minority (from trading, to hedge funds, to mutual fund managers, to financial advisors, to the partnership of Goldman Sachs, to the attendees at Davos.)”
Yeah I was talking about finance AND insurance combined, here is the source.
http://www.areavibes.com/chicago-il/employment/
that data is from 2000, so i know its outdated…and if anything I think more woman have come into the finance/insurance sector over the past decade.
I’m sure they’re all laid back guys, nobody is personally attacking any of the residents here. I’m simply trying to point out that, not just in America, but worldwide, we have decided to compensate the finance sector seemingly above all others. Real estate is in the worst depression it has ever seen in modern times, yet, finance types are able to purchase $200+ sq ft new construction condos at a time period where 1 in 8 mortgages nationwide are in foreclosure and unemployment is 9%+.
“I’m sure they’re all laid back guys, nobody is personally attacking any of the residents here. I’m simply trying to point out that, not just in America, but worldwide, we have decided to compensate the finance sector seemingly above all others. Real estate is in the worst depression it has ever seen in modern times, yet, finance types are able to purchase $200+ sq ft new construction condos at a time period where 1 in 8 mortgages nationwide are in foreclosure and unemployment is 9%+.”
“every dog has its day, dog”
If you think people who make a living in finance are the problem, you’re placing the blame in the wrong place. The reason things are so out of whack in this economy right now is because of the failed monetary policy of the Federal Reserve. The Fed’s loose monetary policy and suppressing of interest rates for extended periods fueled multiple boom and bust cycles. The worst part is we haven’t recovered from the last bust and we’re creating new bubbles by keeping interest rates near 0%. Needless speculation inevitably occurs when so much debt is not only allowed but encouraged. Why people would think our current stock market level is sustainable growth and not another bubble is beyond me.
Anyway, definitely don’t place the blame on the people in the finance industry. What’s happened with the stock market swings is simply a byproduct of a broken system.
Go 4th guy!!! he is wise beyond his years, IMO.
“4th guy sounds like he is the perfect resident for this place, I liked mcgees when i was that age though it was half the size it is now. are most of the other owners similarly young?”
mid 20s to early 30s, one older resident.
getting sad that our years of being able to hang at mcgees are dwindling fast.
“getting sad that our years of being able to hang at mcgees are dwindling fast.”
wouldnt be bad walking across the street and grabbing a bar stool and watch the storm come in right now
“Real estate is in the worst depression it has ever seen in modern times, yet, finance types are able to purchase $200+ sq ft new construction condos at a time period where 1 in 8 mortgages nationwide are in foreclosure and unemployment is 9%+.”
BUT real estate has just had one of the biggest run up in history as well creating the bubble, the economy is cyclical. Real estate agents were the ones raking in all the dough 5yrs ago. How about all the mortgage lenders? I know plenty of people in the finance industry that have taken major pay cuts, and it not all they are making record bonuses now? I do feel banks were a major player in the downturn do to the lack of lending standards, but I also blame all the individuals that leveraged themselves too much in real estate and/or the market. I think this recession was a squeeze on LEVERAGE. not just finance types but everybody that was leveraged in shape or form. It cleaned up all the people that didnt actually have the chips to play.
“http://www.areavibes.com/chicago-il/employment/”
I guess they count the secretaries as people in finance. What a BS.
It’s an awfully nice living these days to be working in finance. I don’t think they’re blaming the federal reserve, they’re thanking the federal reserve. The policies aren’t failures if they were designed to enrich those in the finance industry. These ‘failed’ policies are working just fine.
“If you think people who make a living in finance are the problem, you’re placing the blame in the wrong place. “
I think there’s clearly a difference between Joe Trader and Ben Bernanke/Henry Paulson type characters. Don’t lump them all together. Also, don’t leave the executive branch’s role out of this either. They encouraged loose lending while implicitly guaranteeing any loan.
” The policies aren’t failures if they were designed to enrich those in the finance industry.”
and nothing to do with protecting the average persons investments? or ease the lending of the credit crunch for the the average person? or advert a global recession?
There is a lot more blame to go around than just the finance people. and a lot more benefactors of the bailout than you seem to acknowledge.
however, I do agree that the finance industry had probably received more than their far share, and are partly responsible. and…wish they bailout never happened (actually if they didnt bail out Citi i dont know what I would have done if i went to checking account it was non existent) bet they would have still come after my credit card debt too
I’m not blaming, not once did I blame. All I did was comment that this recession, Joe Trader is making out like a bandit.
No law firm associate in my office purchased a $700,000 new construction condo in LP in 2010. But then again, we’re not involved in finance either.
“#The 4th/unknown guy on February 1st, 2011 at 10:56 pm
I think there’s clearly a difference between Joe Trader and Ben Bernanke/Henry Paulson type characters. Don’t lump them all together. Also, don’t leave the executive branch’s role out of this either. They encouraged loose lending while implicitly guaranteeing any loan.”
“I’m not blaming, not once did I blame. All I did was comment that this recession, Joe Trader is making out like a bandit.”
Fair enough, maybe the ones that persevered and survived…but there are an equal number, if not more, that got crushed and lost their jobs and/or income.
True, true, and they have been rewarded handsomely.
“Fair enough, maybe the ones that persevered and survived…but there are an equal number, if not more, that got crushed and lost their jobs and/or income.”
“I’m not blaming, not once did I blame. All I did was comment that this recession, Joe Trader is making out like a bandit.”
Can you provide some examples of time periods when traders not making out like bandits? 80s? 90s? 00s? This is nothing new.
I was gonna say the same thing, nothing new, thats why so many people are attracted to it.
somebody has to be at the bottom of the likable totem pole, its a battle at the bottom going on at the moment…
and by somebody i meant “profession”
Wow… completely agree with “4th guy”. I can’t believe how lucid his understanding of the economy is, for someone not in finance.
Homedelete…. that article is full of so much hyperbole, bullshit, and bias it is absurd. You can handpick the few traders at the top who are making 1M+, but you do not see how many fail, or how many work in the industry and don’t even come close. The average trader with 10 years of experience is NOT making 1M+.
Meanwhile, the average brainsurgeons are making around the numbers posted; they didn’t simply handpick the highest paid ones. There is a lot less risk in going to that industry. You know with fair certainty if you complete the schooling about the income level you will receieve, and it will be fairly consistent across the board. You also arent in constant fear of losing your job in a couple months.
“(actually if they didnt bail out Citi i dont know what I would have done if i went to checking account it was non existent)”
Another misconception regarding the bailout: depositors were protected by the FDIC to the tune of 100k per account. If Citi were allowed to fail depositors would’ve been protected.
Bob: you are on point about the FDIC protection, though the actual implementation of shutting down Citi would have been tough. But individuals weren’t going to be the problem, rather small to mid-sized firms with payroll accounts north of 100k. I believe that was the impetus for upping the limit to 250k.
Oh and HD: just as many lawyers would be snapping up expensive properties as traders – you just need to correctly compare your firm against a trading firm. Kirkland, Scadden, etc – those are the legal firms that match up against the trading firms & traders you are pointing out. However your firm of associates would line up against mid sized trading firms who are also not paying out the same. You’re a reasonable guy, don’t get sucked into the “OMG Helicopter Ben is making all traders rich!”.
Flip side of the story: if you would have put your cash in a bet all in a single stock or two last year, your IRA/401k would have grown by 20-40% depending.
I have close friends who are both professional traders and attorneys – both look across the fence and think the other have it good until they speak with each other. I’d find it a hard argument to make that lawyers haven’t been a protected, privledged class of citizen.
And I’m done with my logical fallacy argument.
Wait, am I looking at the wrong property here?
Did not three young finance types buy $700,000+ condos in this building?
For a moment there I was confused, everyone was telling me the bloomberg article is BS, or that it’s not the ‘fault’ of those making a living in the finance industry; or that ‘Kirkland, Scadden’ have comparable incomes to trading firms.
I’ll do some more research and see if I can find any brain surgeons, or biglaw attorneys or people from other professions who recently bought in this building. There is one.
BUT there are two financial analysts and a trader.
You cannot change that fact no matter how hard you try to spin it.
Bob, and what if you 200k?
This thread feels like it’s turning into a bubble, get out know before it burst!
Hd,
What is your point? People in finance make a lot of money?
I think his point was that
All traders make too much money and that they never lose
All traders made money only because the government gave it to them
Al traders are not smart with their money and just blow and eventually will be broke
Only traders buy in lincoln park condos in this market
Yet traders do not reflect the market but somehow are the knifecatchers at same time
I think the point is most traders have a downside and can blow up. however the tbtf firms, who make a lot of coin trading, had a big hand in causing this recession and got bailed out by rhw us taxpayers when their trades went bad. I know a lot of traders that think this is bs.
also, I think this is a pretty good list of capability
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/06/who-is-to-blame-1-25/
list of culpability
flo,
Mediocre minds always think in simple and generic terms. Not much you can do about it…
spin-
please elaborate, I must of missed something