1-Bedroom in Southport Closes Under 2005 Price: 1148 W. Roscoe
We chattered about this first floor 1-bedroom at 1148 W. Roscoe in Southport numerous times in the last year as we wondered what the market was like for a $300,000 1-bedroom in this neighborhood.
See our first chatter and pictures here.
The unit recently closed for $22,000 under the 2005 purchase price.
Unit #1W: 1 bedroom, 1 bath, no square footage listed
- Sold in July 2005 for $293,000
- Was listed in October 2008 for $315,000 (parking included)
- Reduced
- Was listed in November 2008 for $299,500 (parking included)
- Withdrawn
- Re-listed and Reduced
- Was listed in February 2009 for $279,000 (parking still included)
- Sold in April 2009 for $271,000 (parking included)
- Assessments of $159 a month
- Taxes of $3,736
- Central Air
- W/D
- Fireplace
- Bedroom is 12×10
- Ed Jelinek at Coldwell Banker had the listing
…looks like everyone’s price estimates for the place were pretty far off.
I’m showing that this unit closed for $273,160 on 7/1/2005
Maybe the $273,160 price is without parking, & the $293,000 price is with parking.
Sure, some moron overpaid, big deal. I’m quite pleased to see that it closed below the 2005 price…
“#paulj on May 6th, 2009 at 7:01 am
Oh pundits…So unhappy so early in the morning. There are a lot of people who would take this place in a minute. Is it perfect? No.
Benefits:
*Good neighborhood
*FP
*A place for a little dog to relieve himself in the morning (valuable in Chicago in winter)
*Bedroom with a WINDOW
*Parking
*Central air
*Better than average kitchen
*W/D
Compare it with your dumpy rental… I thought so.
The selling price is up to the market, not you.”
“I’m showing that this unit closed for $273,160 on 7/1/2005.”
Public records show it selling for $293,000.
Which is correct? The MLS or the County? The Tribune also shows it selling for $293,000.
Either way- it still sold for less than the 2005 price.
This place is awful. Wish I could have showed this sucker my place.
2 closings today so far…
1742 N Larrabee – Purchased in 2002 for $567k and sold yesterday for $650k after 36 days on the market.
Should this person have purchased or rented over the past 6+ years?
1749 Wells – purchased for $335k in ’04 and $305k in ’02. It sold yesterday for $387,500 after 20 days on the market.
Should this person have purchased or rented over the past 4+ years?
Quit being a douche Steve we all know that some properties sell above what they paid for a few years ago. What you don’t know is how much $$$ they put into the place, so all those gains you are spouting could very well be losses.
Anyhoo, I sort of feel bad for the moron who paid this much for a really awful 1 bedroom below grade condo with a piss porch (bums/dogs/friends) right on the EL tracks. I’m sorry buyer, but you caught a freakin butcher’s knife here. Then again, it only takes one idiot. Here is proof!
>Sure, some moron overpaid, big deal.
At what point do enough people buy at current price levels that stop being morons?
I don’t think StevO is being a douche. People on here like to rub in the losses, I see no problem with him rubbing in the gains. Real estate is not a perfectly efficient market and is not liquid at all and I enjoy hearing about data points on both sides.
“*Bedroom with a WINDOW”
Actually paulj every bedroom per city code has to have a window or access to natural light. So this one is rather par for the course.
That being said I am shocked as well that this closed at ask. I’ve never really spent a lot of time in the Southport Corridor but from what I can tell it is a nice neighborhood, sort of a small town/Mayberry within Chicago kind of feel. Aside from all the drawbacks of this unit I also couldn’t deal with living near an el stop that isn’t 24/7.
Steve – well let’s see. The guy who bought on Larrabee in 2002 made 14.6% total, which comes out to about 2% annualized return. In other words, inflation beat them. Great investment there. Sure, there are other factors such as mortgage interest deductions, but we also have things like agent commissions to worry about as well (the standard 6% brings this place down to $611k).
Overall, I wouldn’t be very pleased if I was the owner looking to make some money on this place. It wouldn’t have been hard to beat that those kinds of returns in the marketplace.
Brad, morons are determined on a case by case basis. But there are a lot of them out there.
I don’t get why people call buyers here morons or idiots because they chose to invest their own money in a home rather than to rent. There are many people out there who did purchase with the intention of staying in their homes for 10+ years. Not everyone buys a house/apartment only to live in it for a few years before attempting to sell to make a profit.
Regardless of how many (life long renters I imagine) posters here think it was a bad idea to purchase in the past few years, buying a home for your own LONG TERM use is STILL considered a good investment.
In ten years when you all are still renting, will you still be angry at those who thought ahead and now have a good amount of equity in their homes? Sour grapes!!
I bought a home recently and think this guy/gal is still an idiot…
Hey JR – Your home is not an investment. The question is whether renting is more practical and economically efficient.
Look at it this way, not only did these owners have a wonderful place to live, it was cheaper than renting and you end up with a nice big pile of cash when you sell.
“Overall, I wouldn’t be very pleased if I was the owner looking to make some money on this place. It wouldn’t have been hard to beat that those kinds of returns in the marketplace.”
I just saw this. What a moron you are. How is the market place doing over the past 6 years?
Yes, Heitman, we know. Those who bought before the big run-up can still sell at a profit in this market (if they didn’t do something stupid like HELOC out all their equity). Yes, they made a smart choice by buying instead of renting.
For those of us like myself who moved to the city in 2005, that doesn’t really help me. Would I like to have bought in 1999 and sold in 2006? Sure, who wouldn’t? But had I bought in 2005, when I could clearly see that prices were unsustainably high, where would that leave me now? I’d be making a monster mortgage payment on a less desirable place that I couldn’t even hope to sell without a big loss. Thank God I trusted my instinct and rented. Now I can buy a better place for less money once it truly becomes a good time to buy (I’m thinking 2010-2012).
Incidentally, the way I first got the idea that prices were way too high was when I was out for drinks one night and talking to a friend of a co-worker. She had bought a place in Lakeview with an interest-only mortgage and was struggling just to make the interest payments plus assessments and taxes. But she felt things would be OK since she’d sell at a profit in a couple of years and take the equity and put it into a nicer place. I wonder how that worked out for her. After that, I started doing research and came across all kinds of housing bubble information on the web. That was when I KNEW I wasn’t going to buy anytime soon.
Pete – The example I used on Wells for purchased in 2004. That was right in the middle of the condo craze. i am not saying some people did not over pay in 2006 & 2007, but it is just way exaggerated here. LP is off 5% or so and that is it.
May June and July closing will show us exactly where we are in terms of price drops. I will guess no more than 5 – 7% from the peak…
I am in a similar situation Pete having moved here five years ago. I knew about the housing bubble all the way back in 2005 when it was on the cover of the Economist with a title “After the Fall” and it showed a graphic house falling on a homeowner.
Still it didn’t truly hit home to me until a year or two later when I met a young single accountant girl who owned a 400k place down in River North. I remember thinking to myself I know what accountants make and something is not quite right here…just think of how many thousands of overextended people there are out there.
They figured RE always goes up, so best to buy the nicest place possible to live a good life and leverage up as much as possible to maximize their ROE. Leverage works both ways. Guess what happens to that ROE number with leverage when the price of the underlying asset goes south?
Nice call on the SHill, Sonies. These likely both lost money and cost more than renting.
Here’s some more info. Don’t forget transaction costs at >6%, too.
“1742 N Larrabee – Purchased in 2002 for $567k and sold yesterday for $650k after 36 days on the market.”
Sold 3/25/02 for $567,500
Listed 2/4/09 at $699,000
Sold 5/1/09 for $650,000
The seller did a total kitchen renovation. In addition, the rest of the unit appears to be updated, but probably not bathrooms.
“1749 Wells – purchased for $335k in ‘04 and $305k in ‘02. It sold yesterday for $387,500 after 20 days on the market.”
Sold 6/24/02 for $302,500
Sold 8/25/04 for $335,000
Listed 10/3/08 at $449,900
Expired 1/20/09
Listed 1/30/09 at $399,000
Sold 5/5/09 for $387,500
This had extensive renovations done. These included “wide plank floors, redesigned eat-in kitchen w/slate floor & huge Master spa bath w/soaking tub & open limestone shower w/body sprays. Second bath w/slate rain shower & body sprays.”
I’ll point out, too, that even the mls states a market time of 132 days.
I am in a similar situation Pete and Bob. I knew this guy who bought a home with 20% down and a 4.25% interest rate. His housing payment is 60% of what his rent payment would be and he actually owns the place and can fix it up to his liking. To think of all those accountants paying hige rental rates when they could be buying at these low interest rates and saving a ton on taxes. Unreal!
I for the record will attest that I am not jealous on anyone with equity in their home. I have no shame in renting.
Bob and Pete, it was 04 when I noticed the bubble and 05 when I became fully aware of what was going on.
By the time 06 came around I was talking about the bubble and pretty much universally derided as a heretic. I half hearted tried to counsel friends regarfing their ill timed decision to buy to no avail.
Og G – You still did not answer the questions of your rental formula. Tell me about the Orchard place and the Larrabee place. Which is a better deal, to rent or to own?
Sure thing, SHill. Keep begging.
And you keep renting…
“Hey JR – Your home is not an investment. The question is whether renting is more practical and economically efficient. ”
So when the numbers aren’t great, it’s no longer an investment? Keep moving those goalposts!
“Look at it this way, not only did these owners have a wonderful place to live, it was cheaper than renting and you end up with a nice big pile of cash when you sell.”
In what universe do you live in where a place is priced cheaper than the rent? Do you have any evidence to support your claim that the monthly payments, taxes, assessments, etc. were cheaper than renting? Or is this more of your made up baloney?
“I just saw this. What a moron you are. How is the market place doing over the past 6 years?”
See, that’s the great thing about stocks, bonds, etc. versus real estate – liquidation is much easier. Want to sell a stock? As easy as clicking a button! Can’t say that about a house.
Because it’s so easy, you’re not going to find many investors whose portfolios look the exact same as they did in 2002. Frankly, you’d have to be an idiot to be negative vis-a-vis your 2002 position right now.
In reality, I don’t. But that’s not where you’re from.
Yeah no, I still wouldnt have paid a dime over $200 for this place.
There’s shame in owning if you bought between 2001 and 2008 and it is particularly shameful if you used toxic financing.
No shame in renting in fact it makes me one of the smartest people in the room.
See Orchard conversation from yesterday. G tell them your conclusion. Is it better to have a $2,700 housing exp (even lower in 2003) or a $3,900 rental rate? Oh, and the property sold for more than it was purchased for…
Let’s see if G goes away again and hides the rest fo the day
“There are many people out there who did purchase with the intention of staying in their homes for 10+ years. Not everyone buys a house/apartment only to live in it for a few years before attempting to sell to make a profit.”
This is a good point, but I think one particular point is often overlooked on this site. We see a lot of apartments on here, not homes. How many people buying small 1 bedrooms (especially over the last few years) or crammed 2/2’s ever plan to stay in them, especially once the wife/husband and kids come along.
If you are comparing a 1 bedroom place to larger spaces its just not apples to apples
Some neighborhoods, Lakeview especially, are filled with tiny condos that are priced significantly over their rental value, the ratio of prices to incomes, and the new standards for loans
As usual HD has zero clue as to what he’s are talking about (again). So I should feel shame that I bought my house in 2001? Please explain. What were the conditions under which I purchased, what is my house worth? You make SH look like the poster boy for clear thinking.
Frankly you aren’t one of the smartest people in the room, rather you are an idiot. My guess is you are a very bitter 3rd tier law school grad that is pissed that he gets laughed when attempting to get hired by name Law firms and is stuck doing work that any para-legal could do sleep walking. If only those big firms recognized your brilliance…
So does anyone have any idea how big this high end rental market is, we see lots of big rental asks, but how many people willing to fork out $2K+ are there. I wonder considering how you can get a nice 3 bedroom in North Center, Lakeview, or Lincoln Square for $1200- $1300. You can even get a half of 2 flat for $1300
Ohhh HD! I still love you man but that one hurt!
> No shame in renting in fact it makes me one of the smartest people in the room.
What room? Not this one.
“See Orchard conversation from yesterday. G tell them your conclusion. Is it better to have a $2,700 housing exp (even lower in 2003) or a $3,900 rental rate? Oh, and the property sold for more than it was purchased for”
Still repeating the same bad data? I corrected you yesterday.
You never did show your analysis (or was that it?), but I’m sure its your typical GIGO.
I don’t understand why calling me a paralegal third tier law grad is supposed to insult me. It’s just not true, not even close to true. Am I supposed to get all riled up and defend my honor or something?
But if my goal was to get you all pissed off and offended by saying it’s shameful if you bought post-2001 then well the joke is on you buddy.
But anyway, if you bought in 2001 you better get to the exit before everybody else because the bottom of the housing bust is 1999 pricing. Yeah, that’s right, 1999, watch your equity disappear. I said that two years ago and I was a heretic and insulted and derided. Today I have much more credibility.
“JohnnyU on May 6th, 2009 at 10:38 am
As usual HD has zero clue as to what he’s are talking about (again). So I should feel shame that I bought my house in 2001? Please explain. What were the conditions under which I purchased, what is my house worth? You make SH look like the poster boy for clear thinking.
Frankly you aren’t one of the smartest people in the room, rather you are an idiot. My guess is you are a very bitter 3rd tier law school grad that is pissed that he gets laughed when attempting to get hired by name Law firms and is stuck doing work that any para-legal could do sleep walking. If only those big firms recognized your brilliance…”
There are only a handful of neighborhoods in the entire chicagoland region where large numbers of renters will fork out $2000 plus for a rental. Once you start hitting $2,000 a month many people outside of lakeshore neighborhoods want to own.
“#Haywood on May 6th, 2009 at 10:41 am
So does anyone have any idea how big this high end rental market is, we see lots of big rental asks, but how many people willing to fork out $2K+ are there. I wonder considering how you can get a nice 3 bedroom in North Center, Lakeview, or Lincoln Square for $1200- $1300. You can even get a half of 2 flat for $1300”
JohnnyU,
Are the first-tier law grads working a BigLaw going to bail us out of this housing mess? Them and the i-bankers?
Cuz I mean somebody has to buy up all these 550k bungalows and 275k start condos all over the city. Might as well be them?
Don’t buy in bad neighborhoods. Just the good ones…
Like Lincoln Park?
First, a look back:
Lincoln Park April condo/TH sales:
1988 = 72
1989 = 89
1990 = 112
1991 = 100
1992 = 116
1993 = 119
1994 = 145
1995 = 99
1996 = 148
1997 = 143
1998 = 138
1999 = 132
2000 = 111
2001 = 115
2002 = 148
2003 = 126
2004 = 139
2005 = 161
2006 = 116
2007 = 149
2008 = 74
2009 = 58
I wonder what these forward looking indicators mean?
Lincoln Park condo/TH contracts:
4/08 = 107
4/09 = 96 (-10.3% YOY)
Lincoln Park condo/TH listings entered in mls:
4/08 = 215
4/09 = 223
“I don’t understand why calling me a paralegal third tier law grad is supposed to insult me. It’s just not true, not even close to true. Am I supposed to get all riled up and defend my honor or something?”
I didn’t call you a para-legal (That would be insulting to para-legals), I called you a 3rd tier law school grad that does the work of a para-legal. Its not an insult but rather an accurate assessment. Get upset or not, its of no concern to me.
“But if my goal was to get you all pissed off and offended by saying it’s shameful if you bought post-2001 then well the joke is on you buddy.
But anyway, if you bought in 2001 you better get to the exit before everybody else because the bottom of the housing bust is 1999 pricing. Yeah, that’s right, 1999, watch your equity disappear. I said that two years ago and I was a heretic and insulted and derided. Today I have much more credibility. “
I’m not your buddy. I don’t hang with self aggrandizing hacks.
What did I pay for my house and what is it worth? You can’t answer the question and instead of shutting your pie hole or admitting as much, you keep on bloviating about what you don’t know. Yeah I’ll head down to the local realtors office and demand they sell my house because some 3rd tier law grad said so…
You have zero credibility, you are an anonymous poster on a website. Jesus if you aren’t the poster child for overcompensation.
Somebody’s underwater. Did your HELOC interest rate adjust May 1st or something?
JohnnyU,
Is it your intention for your comments to drip with irony? q
“Are the first-tier law grads working a BigLaw going to bail us out of this housing mess? Them and the i-bankers?
Cuz I mean somebody has to buy up all these 550k bungalows and 275k start condos all over the city. Might as well be them?”
Bob – I hate Lawyers as a rule and they could all be wisked away to some remotes island never to be seen or heard from again and I would throw a party. Though I find that they all have an unearned arrogance about them, 3rd tiers are especially unsufferable. (Note there are a few decent lawyers but they follow the inverse 90/10 rule)
As for a solution, let there be real penalties for bad decisions and have the market sort it out
“Somebody’s underwater. Did your HELOC interest rate adjust May 1st or something?”
Wanna bet or do you want to keep running your pie hole?
Southport Corridor? WTF. This place is closer to sheffield and clark. Some idiot let their Realtard talk them into a shithole. Maybe the person plans on making some money selling hotdogs from his/her patio to people on the sidewalk.
“As for a solution, let there be real penalties for bad decisions and have the market sort it out”
Definitely agreed. Our government doesn’t see it this way, or least not recently. Foreclosure moratoriums, cramdowns, bank bailouts, other measures are just transferring wealth from taxpayers to those who got in over their heads and delaying the inevitable.
We had a bubble. A lot of people bought more house than they could afford, especially in a bad economy. They aren’t responsible debtors like those who bought a house they could afford nor do they deserve to be neighbors of the more responsible people.
This is America and not until recently was it so glaringly obvious the government is interested in equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity.
since renting v. owning is being discussed:
$1100/month rent for a 1BR in River North
vs.
275k+ (+assessments/tax/etc) for a 1BR condo in River north
I think renting right now is a great idea…
I especially like the returns on my equity positions at +60% since my march buying spree.
any chance i could’ve got 60% increase in 2 months on a down payment? as it was stated, i click and i sell. def. not illiquid
“Southport Corridor? WTF. This place is closer to sheffield and clark.”
It’s closer to Racine than Sheffield, but yeah, I’m not sure what part of “Southport Corridor” people think extends beyond, you know, SOUTHPORT.
I guess “Wrigleyville” has lost its luster?
Let’s hope so. It never made much sense beyond a block or two in every direction around the stadium – the Cubs play at Wrigley Field 81 times per year.
So that’s less than 25% of the days each year, with a game possibly having an impact up to (we’ll be generous) 12 hours, or half the day. We’re talking about 40 days.
I love the Cubs and I love Wrigley, but quite frankly the concert venues have as much (if not more) impact, as those are running all year, and much of the week.
Thanks for always pointing out that issue Bob since I remember a similar one from forbes that said When will the bubble burst, and it was a picture of a home with a bubble around it that was about to pop.
It was no secret that something negative was going to happen, but kind of difficult to predict the intensity.
I do like the predictions on this site though. If you’re right then you’re some type of real estate tycoon w/a magic crystal ball and if you’re wrong well then the buyer is an idiot and overpaid.
As for this property – I think the selling price is fair, if a single person brought 10% down then they probably make about 70K a year, which seems just about right. Or a couple who makes 40K each, also feasible.
OK, sorry for the brief political point here, but:
“This is America and not until recently was it so glaringly obvious the government is interested in equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity.”
What do you think the S&L Crisis was all about? Or Joe Kennedy, the Kennedy patriarch, being made head of the original SEC?
After the American Revolution the London banks just switched teams, we’ve been run by bankers/”Capital” for centuries, and it isn’t ever going to change barring a serious restructuring of our government and economy.
The one guy who was out there accurately predicting the housing bubble (credit bubble is really a better description) is Kevin Phillips, ex-Republican who got sick of their lack of fiscal conservatism. Read his book “The Cousins Wars,” and then “Bad Money,” and you’ll be better able to put all of these events in historical context.
Surprising it sold for that much… the el runs right behind it!
Oh, and it’s a ground floor unit!
“No shame in renting in fact it makes me one of the smartest people in the room.”
How is it that “one of the smartest people in the room”, who is an attorney, and has been in the business for years, only has a combined HOUSEHOLD income of about $150K, today?
My best friend made $150K right out of law school— in 2002.
so you’re saying you can measure intelligence by income level? so many holes in that theory I don’t know where to start, but I’d begin with the rocket scientists who have been getting bailed out with TARP funds. the big brass and middle management are all very well paid, but smart, they ain’t.
I think we are talking about attorneys- first tier, third tier, paralegals and such.
Wow MADFLY you sure have a vendetta against me. Am I supposed to feel insulted because my household income is *only* $150k?
“Somebody’s underwater. Did your HELOC interest rate adjust May 1st or something?”
Wanna bet or do you want to keep running your pie hole?
Still waiting…
This should be easy money for a guy of your intellect. I mean you predicted everything and are (self admittedly) one of the smartest people in the room and are undoubtedly sitting on more money that you know what to do with, from you know actually sacking up and taking your own advice. I’m sure a little bet wouldn’t scare such a savvy, smart guy like yourself.
Or you could be yellow
No vendetta, HD – $150K is a very respectable income. But let’s be realistic, when you boast as being “the smartest”, you make yourself a target. Truth is, I kind of like you. 😉
Ah, but if he had taken that 20% down payment and instead invested it in TBT, he would be watching his equity grow faster! As it is, he has to watch it shrink. Quantitative easing isn’t quite working out as Ben expected. Doesn’t bode well for mortgage rates of property values.
Heitman: “I am in a similar situation Pete and Bob. I knew this guy who bought a home with 20% down and a 4.25% interest rate. His housing payment is 60% of what his rent payment would be and he actually owns the place and can fix it up to his liking. To think of all those accountants paying hige rental rates when they could be buying at these low interest rates and saving a ton on taxes. Unreal!”
Maybe HD sits in an office or room by himself. Thus truly making him “the smartest guy in the room”. Truth be told we’re all in different rooms on here so thats how I took it 😀
I keep my office door closed at all times. So technically I am the smartest person in the room.
And yellow
TBT has made me a lot of money that’s for sure.
For the love of God, people, get laid.
Well 1148 W Roscoe #1E is a short sale with parking listed on 5/31/2011 with an ask price of 210k as of 9/19/2011. MLS 07820295. Congratulations to the April 2009 buyer who “snapped up” unit 1W for a mere $271k.
“FHA approval in process. ”
Yeah…they might want to get on that.
“Well 1148 W Roscoe #1E is a short sale with parking listed on 5/31/2011 with an ask price of 210k as of 9/19/2011. MLS 07820295. Congratulations to the April 2009 buyer who “snapped up” unit 1W for a mere $271k.”
It’s amazing how much has changed in some buildings/complexes in just the last 2 years. I’ve been following these units closely. What is interesting to me is that what would have been snapped up as a “deal” just 2 years ago (selling like $25k under the 2005 price) is now not even selling at all (even priced another $50k or $75k LESS.)
Yet 2009 was at the height of the financial crisis and recession.
But clearly people’s perception of what a “deal” is has changed. Also- people’s obsession of owning at any cost has also changed in the last 2 years.
1148 W Roscoe #1E is a short sale & had it’s ask price cut to 185k on October 29th.
Thanks for the update Bob. I’m watching these closely as a sign of what is going on in the rest of Lakeview.
Unit 1W listed January 22nd with an ask price of 249k. They must have horse blinders on or something..