$100K Reduction on East Lincoln Park Rowhouse: 410 W. Webster
We last chattered about this 3-bedroom vintage rowhouse at 410 W. Webster in East Lincoln Park in October 2008.
See our prior chatter and pictures here.
This is a prime location in that neighborhood (near the park, the zoo etc.)
It has since been reduced $100,000.
The current listing also states that the owner did a “2006 gut/remodel of the kitchen”, remodeled the upstairs baths and finished the lower level.
Back in October, I asked if only having “covered parking” would hurt re-sale of this property.
The rowhouse only has a carport. But now the listing says an architect has been consulted who “confirmed” that the carport could be replaced with a 1-car garage with a deck above.
Jennifer Ames and the Ames Team from Coldwell Banker still has the listing. See the pictures here.
See the property brochure here.
410 W. Webster: 3 bedrooms, 3.5 baths, no square footage listed
- Sold in February 2004 for $751,000
- Was listed in October 2008 for $899,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $799,000
- Taxes are $10,516
- Central Air
- Carport parking space
- 2 fireplaces
- Bedroom #1: 12×16
- Bedroom #2: 11×13
- Bedroom #3: 7×9
I think I would hire that broker, great brochure. This one will move fast at this price.
I think it will move as well. I was skeptical until I saw the brochure. Its refreshing to see a proactive agent who does the marketing and puts something like this together.
More agents should take a clue from this presentation and not let CC (which they have no control over) and the MLS be the only way to market their unit.
The Brownstoner crowd in NYC would have orgasms over this (even though it would be considered slightly small for them) – if it was in Brooklyn.
I hope it sells less than the 2004 price.
NICE 3rd Bedroom, I mean walk in closet 🙂
God, what a great house, and priced to sell. My only issue is with the ‘east Lincoln Park’ thing – there isn’t such a place. Made up by some broker I suppose trying to distinguish it from Sheffield and Ranch Triangle neighborhoods thinking they’re LP. Just cuz you share the same zip code doesn’t mean you’re in the same hood.
Looks like about 1700 sq ft.
Actually after looking at that floorplan, the 3rd tiny bedroom has a closet and the 2nd bigger bedroom does not, so i’d knock out the wall in the middle, expand that 2nd bedroom a little bit and actually build a walk in closet! 🙂
love it.
Finally I see a broker that likes what she does instead of doing it for the quick buck. Even though the floorplan is a little weird IE the closet in the Master Bedroom, Jennifer Ames’ presentation is flawless. I just googled her and she presents all her properties with lots of pictures, floorplan and a detailed brochure. I’m sure this place will move fast.
Must be a darn good brochure to get this crowd believing the place is worth $470/sf. I don’t get it.
My husband and I looked at this place it is narrow and tiny.
@ RunnerRunner Ok, let’s see… real Lincoln Park address, 2 blocks from the zoo/conservatory, restored vintage w/ fireplace in the MBR (me make more babies with that), space for the Mercedes, prime school district… all for $470 per sq ft. You find that price hard to believe? Really? What I find hard to believe is that you have Internet access in your suburban ranch house.
do they use a special lense to make the rooms appear wider or is it all in the angles? for example, the 2nd bedroom in the brochure.. the walls don’t seem to be parallel…but from the plans they clearly are.
Reminder:
Please keep the comments about the property and NOT the particular agent. Thanks.
VERY beautiful and lovingly maintained home! The only ‘issue’ I had with it was in the LR and Rec Room, one entire wall is taken be the built in storage units…but in the end, it is not that big an issue.
Baths and kitchen are beautiful and done with high quality materials. Had I not been in the market for a high rise unit outside of that immediate area (hate the traffic), I would def place and offer on this home as it will not last for long.
Fantastic marketing as well, I wish all home information was so well presented as it draws you into the home.
That comment about NYers loving this house is correct and it would be snapped up in a NY minute…only at triple the price.
Sabrina, interesting you remove the negative comments about the broker, but don’t remove the positive ones. If you want the subject matter to be about the property only, then you need to remove both types of comments, good and bad.
Who gives a shit what it would go for in NY?
Get real folks. It’s a 2 bedroom house with a finished basement. A 7 x 9 room is not a BR. Even at this address it’s not going to go for $800K no matter how good the marketing.
“Bedroom #3: 7×9”
this is a 2 bedroom.
Yes- I’m leaving the “good” comments on this thread because I’m not inclined to delete half the comments on this post just because they have one sentence talking about the marketing and then everything else about the property.
But the site isn’t about the agent (whether they are “good” or “bad”). People have chattered about the quality of the pictures and the marketing before (including the one YouTube video that was posted) which I feel is relevant to the property.
But just making comments about whether or not the agent prices things high, never shows the properties, is a jerk, is nice, is good, is bad, has a nasty car, talks too much on her cellphone, doesn’t return calls etc. etc. is not very productive.
Its a nice property, but I don’t think I would pay 800k for it, or even 90% of the asking price. I’d say $630-$640 in this market.
I don’t like the rec room cabinetry. It would be good for people with lots of kids toys, as they probably have, but not for an adult. Not everyone has a ton of junk to store.
I have few complaints about this lovely place, although I wish they had used the HW used in the main level in the bedrooms upstairs (instead of carpet). Not hard to change. For some reason, though, I can’t get my head around the asking price (even the asking in 2004), when put up against some 3-level townhouses we’ve seen. Is it a location thing (ie, 2-3 steps from the park vs 4-6 steps away), the SFH designation, or are the finishes just that spectacular? I was thinking that mid $600K to $700K would be appropriate.
Also, regarding the comparison of a carport vs garage vs designated but unsecured parking spot, what type of monetary value would y’all place on these?
Hi Sabrina,
I do think that it is useful info to know sth about an agent – for instance, if a team has a tendency to list high, pressure sellers into accepting lowballs etc.
Very good to know if one of us were to go out and place an offer on a property showcased here.
Rachel:
I have no doubt that information about agents is helpful. But on a blog site it’s simply someone’s opinion and one person may think a particular agent is fantastic and another one may not.
Who’s opinion is “right”?
This site is about the properties and not the agents. I’d like to keep it that way.
Perhaps one of you would like to start a site about agents? There certainly is demand for that (as many of you here have expressed a desire to somehow accumulate that information.)
I saw this place this last week. Some of my thoughts:
It had rained for a couple days, but the basement was old and damp. The downstairs bathroom smelled mildewy (is that a word?) like there might be water issues.
The washer/dryer were in a small room that had pink floor tiles.
The agent told me that “a guy in a rowhouse down the street converted his carport to a garage so you probably could too.” He didn’t mention any architect or consultant “confirming” it could be built out, but I see it mentioned in the brochure he gave me.
The walk in/around closet in the MBR was.. odd. The MBR lacks a tub, but one is around the corner in the other bathroom. The bathroom configuration just felt strange to me.
The third bedroom is tiny. 7×9 might be generous.
I wish the MBR had a better closet solution with an adjoining bathroom that had a tub. I think the top floor would work better if you take down the wall between the 2nd and 3rd BR to open it up.
The rest of the house was charming but I wasn’t sold. Obviously.
“It had rained for a couple days, but the basement was old and damp. The downstairs bathroom smelled mildewy (is that a word?) like there might be water issues.”
That in and of itself kills any chance of this place going for anywhere near ask. Nobody is going to fork over $800K for a damp smelly basement.
The problem is that in very old buildings such as these, the foundations are either brick or stone. Regardless, they’re porous and unless the foundation is completely excavated and a poured wall and infiltration barrier is installed around the entire building, it will continue to have water issues. It’s not a big deal when the space is left unfinished; you would not ordinarily notice any smell because the occasional seepage does not soak into materials where it will not evaporate and eventually mold, or it just evaporates or is cleaned up. Also, under certain conditions, old deteriorated sewer lines under the basement floor can leak sewer gas into the interior space and this will also smell. Below grade finished areas in old buildings are usually trouble.
The lot is 20′ x 62′ my guess is the footprint of this house is tiny. Assessor says 1,560 SF.
There are special fish-eye lenses that make spaces look bigger – and that is definitely the case here if you look at the living room photos.
Also, this house is on an alley, which to me is very unappealing.
Someone above mentioned that the fellow showing this place mentioned nothing about the garage situation, which makes sense to me, because from my understanding this agent often just sends out minions to do the showings (i mean really, who can be bothered with a showing?).
do banks still give out jumbo loans for these inflated properties? orrrr do you just have to deal in cash?
this isn’t really that different from other overpriced lincoln park properties. this is a small, old unit with absolutely tiny rooms. this is easily worth less than 700K.
i’m surprised so many people got duped by a simple brochure (although it seems like it’s impossible to hide the flaws when viewed in person).
Re: the basement smelling moldy. One of my properties in NY has a concrete block basement. When I rehabbed it (it was in great condition before I started….easy rehab) I had the infiltration barrier installed to prevent this happening. With the help of two dehumidifiers, the ‘moldy/old smell’ disappeared within the month I spent working on it. Although I was told the flooding basement issues here are far different from NY, I think the dehumidifiers (which both needed to be emptied daily at first) do make a huge difference in this issue.
westloopelo — Concrete block basements can be retrofitted with exterior water infiltration barriers a lot easier than old brick/stone basements like this property most likely has. And if the interior walls and finishes have already absorbed moisture it can take a lot longer than a month to get rid of those smells, if ever, even with dehumidifiers. Plus, even if the smell does go away you could still have actively growing mold in the interior walls.
And as you noted, stopping water ingress through the foundation won’t necessarily prevent a flooded basement in Chicago. I don’t know about this particular area, but in some Chicago neighborhoods there is the additional issue of backflow from the storm sewers, which are interconnected with the sanitary sewers, during heavy rains. There are solutions to this but they aren’t cheap.
JPS – to clarify; we have combined sewers in Chicago (and the bulk of the inner ‘burbs do too), there are no separate storm sewers, hence the backflow problems via the main house drain.
JPS – I agree with you regarding the absorption of water in interior walls and items like baseboards/wood flooring. Yet another home I did in NY had major drywall deterioration from water seepage through a concrete block basement. After installing the infiltration unit, we had to tear out all drywall, floors and baseboard. There was some mold stains on the concrete which was removed and the brick was coated with mold killing paint. It was one of my more intensive projects, but 5 years later it is still holding up with no signs of continued water damage. Hard work though…
Duly noted, any property I invest in will not have a basement…seems like high rise units which come with their own set of problems.
“high rise units which come with their own set of problems”
Yeah, like flooded electrical rooms (see Harbor House at LSD & Belmont) in the basement.
There are plenty of dry basements in Chicago so I don’t think you need to categorically avoid properties with basements — just be extra careful especially if you’re looking at a finished basement or plan to finish it off.
Returning to the subject property — a finished basement that is damp and smelly after just a couple of days of moderate rains, well in advance of the real spring/summer downpours, is not what you want in a high-buck house. Sure it can be corrected, but it will be very expensive.
Under contract.
I wonder how the seller answered the questions on the Residential Property Disclosure:
“I am aware of flooding or recurring leakage problems in the crawl
space or basement”
“I am aware of material defects in the basement or foundation”
Any of you morons want to reconsider your estimated sales price? I bet north of $750k… any takers?
Go back and read the idiotic quotes from above and you wonder why I make fun of you guys. You simply have no idea what you are talking about…
Purchased in 1987 for $290k and appreciated at 4.3% for 22 years for a 2009 sales price of $750k. Is that excessive?
Is that after maintenance/upkeep costs and accounting for inflation? I wouldn’t exactly call that appreciation.
Great house, nicely renovated, blue chip location, parking(!)…. at $750k. Not bad at all; if the market would have been better, they could have gotten $100k more easily.
So many bitter renters: ‘damp basement’ ‘small and narrow’ ‘don’t like the built-ins’ ‘I don’t get the price’ blah blah. Maybe all the renting frat boys/trixies throw them off, but this area attracts, and is full of, serious money. $750k to get your foot in the door of a vintage row… now that’s a bargain.
Yes- I’m sure that’s what the 2004 buyer thought too. “What a bargain and we’re getting our foot in the door!”
“Purchased in 1987 for $290k and appreciated at 4.3% for 22 years for a 2009 sales price of $750k. Is that excessive?”
Steve, where are you getting the $290,000 price in 1987? I don’t see that number in the public records. But given the state of the neighborhood in the 1980s – not great- (and the age of this property) you’re probably not far off with that price.
But you know the appreciation was actually much less than 4.3% when you factor in kitchen and bathroom renovations plus other maintenance.
Actually, it seems that it probably went up with the rate of inflation (maybe less.)
So much for that “investment.”
But that’s the point. A house is simply to live in and that’s it.
Oh boy Sabrina! You are one bitter person.
Who do you think would have made out better? Renting this house for 22 years or owning it for the same period? I would love to hear your opinion…
My point on the 4% appreciation is that LP is fairly valued today. 4% appreciation is just above the inflation rate and is 100% justified.
Yes- Steve- that 22 year period includes FALLING prices in the last 5 years (as is evident from this sale- as this 2004 purchaser made nothing.)
So- we are simply giving back a large chunk of the bubble appreciation to go back to the “normal” Chicago appreciation which is about the rate of inflation- nothing more.
And this will be after prices fall enough to accomodate incomes (and we’re not there yet.)
Again- as I said- you don’t buy a home as an “investment” (those would be stocks, bonds, etc.) You buy it simply to live in.
Oh- and the losses we are seeing now on all the properties that were purchased in the last 5 or 6 years actually does confirm the old adage that it DOES matter when you buy an asset. Actually – the two buyers on this house illustrate that clearly.
They certainly bought at peak, renovated some, and sold when the market was low – those are the breaks in life (I’m sure sellers are crying in Beverly Hills too). But they had a beautiful roof over their heads that they obviously enjoyed, and then moved on for whatever reason…. very true, a house is simply a place to live in. Still, whomever bought this house today, got quite the deal.
Well, even if it’s 750k …this seller lost a ton of money by owning. Kitchen/baths renovation, finishing the basement, and the commission…He would have been better off financially renting, with less work.
The house was not a gut renovation… so they lost maybe $50k – $100k?? A lot of money sure, but not a ton. Think of it as a lost S550…
Did he overpay in 2004? Probably not. Did he sell at exactly the wrong time? Yes he did. This buyer just purchased at a very attractive price and will be selling for a very large profit down the road. The neighbors purchased for $848k and $900k in the past few years.
They were listed for 6 months (Sept 2008 – Feb 2009) at $899k dropping to $850k about half way through. Then they drop to $799k in the middle of March and the place sells in a week. So they were listed during the “fear” period and they don’t sell (what a suprise, nothing did). Then right as the market starts to turn, this listing agent drops the price $50k and sells the place in a week. Do you see why this buyer got a great deal? This place would have sold at the $850k listing price with just a couple weeks of patience. At least they should have tested it as the market picked up. Instead, they gave it away to some lucky buyer. How do I know it is a lucky buyer? I have 2 clients waiting for this to fall apart so they can submit full priced offers.
At $850K that’s still a bargain. The neighbors tell me it was a corporate relocation, so I imagine the company is picking up the ‘differences’. Always a silver lining.
SteveO,
My prediction was that it was fairly priced and would move quickly, it did. In my opinion it was more the the marketing effort moved it rather than price.
A lot of corporate transplants relocate to LP and they did a great job of pitching the location. I don’t think this property was under priced overall. Marketing and positioning has a lot to do with how quickly a property moves and a lot of financial types with no exposure to it can’t seem to grasp this.
Still yet compare this unit to the megabox condo on W Wrightwood where they are asking 10% less than this for a condominium, which is much less suitable and preferable for family living, IMO. This was a nice townhouse reasonably priced, the Wrightwood pad is a mega-condo really too big & expensive for its niche.
Not all properties are created equal, I’ve got my popcorn ready to watch owners learn this.
“This place would have sold at the $850k listing price with just a couple weeks of patience.”
Ah, yes- the hope of ALL sellers in a declining market. “If only we wait and wait and wait SOMEONE will pay us a price that isn’t the market rate.”
This is under contract because the market is at 2004 pricing. It’s as simple as that.
Didn’t Stevo claim that this sold after *one* week on the market?
That noted, forced to choose b/t this and that Wrightwood condo at roughly comparable prices, I’d choose this one 100 times out of 5. It’s not ideal, b/c the 3d bedroom is really only a nursery, but the layout is much more family-livable than the Wrightwood condo.
Sabrina – It is obvious that you are just a bitter person who knows little about Chicago real estate.
So if I show you a house that sold above 2004 levels does that mean we have appreciated since 2004? Do you see how silly your comments are?
Is this the same Jay?
“but understand, for these highly taxed LP people (including myself $2K when I bought, $16K now), it’s a H-O-M-E, and not an opportunity to make money… never was.” http://cribchatter.com/?p=6607#comment-33218
“so they lost maybe $50k – $100k?? A lot of money sure, but not a ton. Think of it as a lost S550…”
“Sabrina – It is obvious that you are just a bitter person who knows little about Chicago real estate.”
I love it how Stevo’s attacks are getting more vitriolic by the month as the RE market continues its slow descent. Its almost cute 😀
They are not attacks. I just can’t believe how dumb the majority of the pople on this board are. We have to get working on our education system. You guys are really scary… starting with Sabrina.
Stevo:
Did this sell in one week, as you claimed, or not?
Yes ‘G’ the same Jay. Highly taxed to live here to be certain, but I never said I couldn’t afford them. The first wave of high property taxes hit LP in the mid 90’s (I went from $2k when I bought, to about $9k then). The original pioneers who bought in the late 60’s and 70’s (I wasn’t one of them) were forced to sell at that time if they couldn’t make the payments, and there were several of them; it was the first time this neighborhood was ‘cleansed’ by Cook county – it was sad to see them be forced into selling. The other long time residents who stayed behind had deep pockets, the people who buy now (generally) have deep pockets. That still doesn’t change the fact that many bought here years ago for the love of the architecture and neighborhood…. not for a quick profit.
This property closed yesterday for a price of $737,500.
For the benefit of those who may have missed jc’s update.
Below the ’04 price and headed back to 1999…
“Then they drop to $799k in the middle of March and the place sells in a week.”
For 7.7% off ask.
Stevo, I know you’re going to say that there are extenuating circumstances on this property (and I’m sure there are), but this is a property *you* tagged as prime and it’s dropped in price since 2004–you can’t just ignore it, can you?