18 Months Later, Penthouse Still On the Market: 40 E. 9th in the South Loop
We last chattered about this 2-bedroom penthouse at 40 E. 9th in the South Loop way back in March 2009.
See our prior chatter here.
Back in 2009, it was listed for 60% under its 2007 purchase price.
Several of you seemed interested in the unit.
But lo and behold, it is still on the market and has been reduced another $115,000.
It has stainless steel appliances and granite countertops in the open layout.
The master bedroom is lofted and has a large terrace with city views.
Why isn’t this selling?
The lis pendens was filed two years ago. The bank has not yet taken back the property. The listing doesn’t say it is in short sale, however.
Harold Dawson at Sudler Sotheby’s still has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #1902: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1650 square feet, rooftop terrace, duplex
- Sold in April 2007 for $1.1 million
- Was listed in July 2008 for $1.2 million (parking included)
- Reduced multiple times
- Was listed in March 2009 for $440,000 (parking included)
- Reduced
- Was listed in March 2010 for $395,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $325,000 (parking included)
- Short sale?
- Assessments of $541 a month (includes heat, air conditioning, doorman)
- Taxes of $2790
- Central Air
- The listing doesn’t say anything about a washer/dryer in the unit
- Bedroom #1: 24×16
- Bedroom #2: 12×12
Sabrina, it appears from the previous comments on this listing that the realtor changed the square footage down to 2000 square feet to more accurately represent what is actually there. Did they change it back for some reason?
Still a shack on the roof with odd windows (way too low) in the living level. Does anyone know if taxes on a condominium need to be reduced building wide or can this be done individually in Cook County?
I’ve had my eye on this building and this unit for quite some time now. There are several of these type situations in the building where someone way over paid for the units at one time. Looks like it had to be fraud. This particular unit was never worth more than $400K. Finishes are super cheap but the view is nice.
I had 2 buyers with offers on this place and both walked.
Client #1 put in an offer with me at 325K back when the list was much higher. We measured the square footage ourselves and came up with 1500. At that time the listing agent told me he couldn’t get a short sale done. I’m not kidding. We walked.
Client #2 put in an offer with someone else first at 300K and was considering whether or not to raise it. However, in the end we decided to buy at Library Tower.
I agree that there is something a little “odd” about this whole situation. Although I didn’t like the area that much, I DID think that the price was right (esp for a penthouse duplex w/ large private outdoor space, tall ceilings and included parking). The realtor conveyed that there were several offers. I made an over asking cash offer and received no response. When asked whether this was a short sale, the realtor didn’t seem to really know/understand but eventually said, ‘no’ – which meant to me that it was a foreclosure and the bank owned it. That being said, the weird thing is that there is someone living there. I just don’t understand it. Because of all of these strange things, I withdrew my offer.
Whoops- you’re right. It is now listed as 1650 square feet instead of the old listing at 2500 square feet. I’ll fix the post.
Clio,
This situation just gets stranger and stranger. The listing used to clearly indicate a short sale. Now it doesn’t. In addition, there are no indicators on the listing that it is bank owned either. If it’s either of those 2 situations it should be flagged as such on the MLS. In addition, no response has been pretty typical of this situation. When dealing with a short buy it’s critical to assess the capabilities of the other side to know what you are in for.
The public records do not show it as bank owned either. Just the lis pendens two years ago.
These are the issues that are going on out there. I’ve seen short sales on the market for 2 years. Why isn’t the bank just taking it? I should do more posts on those properties.
Extend and pretend; extend the time to foreclosure, pretend like the property is not in default. I see it all the time.
My personal opinion is that when you miss three payments the mortgage moves from the ‘current’ filing cabinet into the ‘default’ file cabinet. Then the servicer attempts loss mitigation which takes a few months. Then if the borrowers respond to loss mitigation, the mortgage is moved either to the bottom of the short sale stack or the bottom of the loan mod stack. If those fail then it goes back to the default stack and litigation ensues. During litigation you again have the opportunity to reenter the short sale or loan mod stack.
There’s actually two loan mod filing cabinets: the HAMP stack and the non-HAMP stack. If you get denied HAMP then you automatically move to the bottom of the non-HAMP stack. Sometimes you can be in two filing cabinets at once i.e. in foreclosure and in the HAMP pile.
Moving between stacks takes a long time. Files get lost, employees sit on files; banks forget about files; if you have two loan mod apps at once then things get all screwed up.
All this moving between filing cabinets is making me dizzy.
“Why isn’t the bank just taking it?”
homedelete, is there really no computerization to the process?
Makes me sad I was wasting my time with a real job when Realtors were closing units ‘before print’ for $1.5+m in this crappy building.
I’ve been to see several of the units as research before they eventually turned up at foreclosure auction and even the doorman has tried to sell me on the building.
The bank already owns 3 units on that 19th floor, it would probably just be easier if they foreclosed on the remainder and turned it into a secure unit for criminally negligent underwriters. I can just see them all sitting around the lunch table saying ‘but the one down the hall closed for $1.5m before print why shouldn’t I have lent $1.495m on this one’
excellent idea neo! it is that kind of creative thinking that we need now more than ever. they should also relocate HD to that 19th floor with the underwriters so he can blow off steam harping at them in the hallways.
So my basic understanding is that this is the new scam by people underwater – they use delay tactics, and live in the house for free for as long as they can – but then why put the house/condo on the market? I still don’t get it. It is unethical at best and could be bordering on fraudulent behavior!!
“even the doorman has tried to sell me on the building.”
I believe that one of the doormen in that building is a licensed realtor. I’m not kidding.
“this is the new scam by people underwater – they use delay tactics, and live in the house for free for as long as they can”
The owners do not need to employ delay tactics. The banks themselves are great at delaying the process – and not necessarily intentionally. When I’m done with my current short sale I’m going to write up all the stupid BS that happened.
Of course it is conputerized, I was speaking metaphorically. But the concept is still the same.
Ch-great idea!
“So my basic understanding is that this is the new scam by people underwater – they use delay tactics, and live in the house for free for as long as they can – but then why put the house/condo on the market? I still don’t get it. It is unethical at best and could be bordering on fraudulent behavior!!”
“exercising their rights under the law”–hey, why not?
“The owners do not need to employ delay tactics. The banks themselves are great at delaying the process – and not necessarily intentionally. When I’m done with my current short sale I’m going to write up all the stupid BS that happened.”
This is why our economy is going to be in trouble for years to come. The real estate market isn’t clearing and won’t for some time. The banks are insolvent and essentially hiding the losses hopeful for more bailouts in the future.
The sad part is a vacant bank owned home adds zero value to society. Dwellings remain empty and people remain homeless due to these bankers putting the livelihood of their business above the US economy. Certainly not criminal, yet what is is our government essentially taking the banker’s side in all of this.
“The banks are insolvent and essentially hiding the losses hopeful for more bailouts in the future.”
Or inflation. Which is, I guess, another bailout, from certain perspectives.
“Dwellings remain empty and people remain homeless due to these bankers putting the livelihood of their business above the US economy.”
I know you disagree, but if every bank that was technically insolvent under MtMarket for all RE related assets were to go into receivership, things wouldn’t be better for anyone with a significant USD denominated asset position.
More of the media manipulating the public. How are we supposed to decipher all of this?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Home-construction-jumps-105-apf-4101143282.html?x=0
OK,
So thought i’d share a bit of research and open it for discussion. I know Gary puts up stats and I appreciate the numbers. My slightly different viewpoint is that my numbers come from the coalface of the foreclosure auction which should strip out the games a bit since it is the proper moment of ownership transfer. Here goes…..
Time Lender 3rd Party %
1Q ’09 2201 50 2.27%
2Q ’09 2602 57 2.19%
3Q ’09 2295 80 3.49%
4Q ’09 1601 70 4.37%
1Q ’10 3375 175 5.19%
2Q ’10 2554 149 5.83%
3Q ’10 2744 128 4.66%
These are the properties that have come through one of the 4 different auction rooms in the City of Chicago in the past 21 months.
-The increase in investor purchases is largely a reflection of the lender bids decreasing as a % of amount owed.
-The blip in 4Q ’09 is a result of moratoriums
I’ll expand on the numbers a bit (ie. breakdown by SFH, condo, MF, etc) if people are interested or have interesting comments.
“More of the media manipulating the public. How are we supposed to decipher all of this?”
See: Housing starts “remain 74 percent below their peak in January 2006”
Perhaps it’s easy to get a 10% increase from record lows?
“I’ll expand on the numbers a bit (ie. breakdown by SFH, condo, MF, etc) if people are interested or have interesting comments.”
Interested–please clarify what the numbers are?
Sorry in case number not clear first line reads…..
In 1Q ’09 2201 properties were sold to the lender and 50 were sold to 3rd party bidders for a % of 2.27%.
Can anyone produce a number for how many properties lenders sold in 1Q to produce a net increase in bank inventory?
……and those are only properties in City of Chicago not all of Cook County
Historical context……
2007 6162 312 5.06%
2008 10245 203 1.98%
How is this building overall? How many foreclosures in the building and are there any special assessments coming up? Seems like a decent deal considering the view and inclusion of parking. Doesn’t seem too far south into south loop either. Seems close enough to downtown to walk.
Ned_Flanders,
In the last year there have been 12 closings, 2 of which were short sales, which doesn’t seem so bad. However, there are several of these units that sold for over $1MM and were really worth about 300 – 400K.
News flash: The world still sucks.
News flash: When IAR reports August sales for Chicago on Thursday they will be down 24% from last year. That’s at least a 10 year low. And 40% of those sales were distressed properties.
location location location!
If you’ll pardon a gripe. Here’s the State of IL’s latest genius revenue generation idea…….
(735 ILCS 5/15-1507.1 new)
Sec. 15-1507.1. Judicial sale fee for Abandoned Residential Property Municipality Relief Fund.
(a) Upon and at the sale of residential real estate under Section 15-1507, the purchaser shall pay to the person
conducting the sale pursuant to Section 15-1507 a fee for deposit into the Abandoned Residential Property Municipality Relief Fund, a special fund created in the State treasury. The fee shall be calculated at the rate of $1 for each $1,000 or fraction thereof of the amount paid by the purchaser to the person conducting the sale, as reflected in the receipt of sale issued to the purchaser, provided that in no event shall the fee exceed $300. No fee shall be paid by the mortgagee acquiring the residential real estate pursuant to its credit bid at the sale or by any mortgagee, judgment creditor, or other lienor acquiring the residential real estate whose rights in and to the residential real estate arose prior to the sale. Upon confirmation of the sale under Section 15-1508, the person conducting the sale shall remit the fee to the clerk of the court in which the foreclosure case is pending. The clerk shall remit the fee to the State Treasurer as provided in this Section, to be expended for the purposes set forth in Section 7.31 of the Illinois Housing Development Act.
So investors and rehabbers have to pay a tax which banks do not to help with a problem the banks have caused. Good work Illinois way to punish those who might actually help the situation.
hows the neighbourhood?
if its decent and livable id pay 240 cash
“if its decent and livable id pay 240 cash”
they won’t even take 330k cash – so don’t hold your breath!!
Is it possible to get a property you own out of default? For example, lets say someone strategically defaults, requests a loan modification, is denied, then pays off all their missing payments (and any extra fees added) bringing the loan back up to date? Is it too late at that point? Is it possible to “hold payments ransom” to attempt to get a loan modification?
For what it’s worth, I currently rent across the street from this building and the neighborhood is perfect for me (I prefer my building, but if I was looking to buy, I’d be curious about this). Grant Park is my front yard. I have at least 8 I-go cars within a few blocks of me, so I don’t need to own a car. I can walk to work and I can either walk downtown or get any number of buses north on Michigan or State. Target, Whole Foods, and Dominicks are just up Roosevelt. I can walk a short distance to the red, green, or orange lines at Roosevelt or Harrison. I can go for a run or bike along the lake on a whim. I have no particular concerns about my safety beyond that this is of course a major city with a city’s issues. For context, I am a single young professional woman.
Fred: its called reinstatement when you catch up on missed payments. Its a statutory right up to a certain point. You can do it once every five years. A lot of people take hardship withdraws from their retirement funds. Or borrow money from family members. Withholding payments to get a loan mod always backfires because they capialize your missed payments onto the principal balance. I always tell peopple that loan mods are NOT for the borrowers benefit, they are for the banks benefit to squeeze as much money out of the fb as possible before they inevitably default downthe road.
“More of the media manipulating the public. How are we supposed to decipher all of this?”
Clio, the best thing to do here is to go directly to the Census news release. You will see that the 10.5% has a 90% confidence interval of ±11.9% – so it includes 0. The Census website also has a paper describing their sampling methodology in which is clearly states: “When the range of the confidence interval contains zero, it is unclear whether there was an increase or decrease; that is, the change is not statistically significant.” (http://www.census.gov/const/www/newresconstdoc.html)
Yes, that’s right. The Census Bureau is saying that they do not know if there was actually an increase or decrease and that it doesn’t matter anyway because whatever it is isn’t statistically significant.
Don’t count on that being in the newspaper.
thanks tipster – useful information. i wish more people would understand this!!
B…i am a single young professional man…thoughts? 😉
“B…i am a single young professional man…thoughts?”
yeah – go joing a dating website…
So is this condo worth purchasing?
Homedelete – And at some point it goes to the “sheriff’s sale,” which is no longer actually done at the Cook County building but “outsourced” to private attorneys or title companies. The ad for the auction is put into the neighborhood newspapers, the interested parties show up, and perhaps 25% of the properties that are supposed to be auctioned on a given day are actually presented. The rest (including of course the one that YOU or YOUR CLIENT was interested in) are postponed to next month…or next…or next…
@ChiTownGal
they just could never cover the volume at cook county building. I find the outsourcing firms pretty slick although I share your frustration on the number of inexplicable postponements. I am involved in foreclosure auctions here and in 4 Texas counties and the TX foreclosure process is so much faster and more efficient that properties don’t sit empty for 2 years or worse still have malevolent occupants in them. All in all it is a much better cleared market. Much like the new tax described above IL attempts to ‘protect’ homeowners has done nothing but blight neighborhoods and makes thousands upon thousands of properties economically obsolete as their value do not justify the high rehab costs. I find that kind of dead weight loss to the economy very depressing indeed.
When I first got into the mortgage business in the 80’s, many lenders preferred the “trust deed” to the regular “mortgage” document. This was because the “trust deed” set up the legal fiction that the homeowner was paying money to a specific PERSON acting as “Trustee” (usually the loan officer) with the payments being processed at the bank, rather than paying money to the bank itself. That way, if the owner defaulted on payments the “trustee” acting as an individual, could sue for foreclosure without all the messy legal steps that a lending institution had to do.
I don’t know if this is legal in Illinois anymore.
As I understand it ChiTownGal (and I am not a lawyer) every state is either a court, sheriff or trustee state when it comes to foreclosure sales.
For example:
-all our Tx auctions occur by State law once a month on first Tuesday of the month and are conducted by trustees.
-All IL auctions must be ordered by the court.
This link provides some information about the different time lags involved:
http://www.realtytrac.com/foreclosure-laws/foreclosure-laws-comparison.asp
I have a feeling the assessments are not correct either. The other 19th floor unit in the building, same size, assessments are $1,590! Big difference