2-Flat in the Heart of Old Town Reduces Under 2007 Price: 343 W. Menomonee
We last chattered about this 2-flat (or single family home) at 343 W. Menomonee in Old Town in January 2010.
See our prior chatter here.
Back in January, the property was listed as a single family home for $238,000 over the 2007 purchase price.
It has now been reduced $243,000 and is now listed for $5,000 under the 2007 purchase price. It also is listed both as a single family home or a 2-flat.
There are definitely two units and they consist of the following:
- 2 bedrooms/2 baths duplex owners unit
- 3 bedrooms/3 baths first floor duplex down rental unit currently rented for $2400 a month
The owners unit has upgraded stainless steel appliances by Viking and granite counter tops. Each unit has its own washer/dryer.
There is no garage but there is a backyard on a 25×100 lot.
The listing says this is an easy deconversion to a single family home.
Is this a deal for this location for a single family home?
Phyllis Hall at Koenig & Strey still has the listing. See the pictures and a virtual tour here.
343 W. Menomonee: 5 bedrooms, 5 baths, 3600 square feet
- Sold in January 1997 for $425,000
- Sold in July 2007 for $1,055,000
- Was listed in January 2010 for $1,293,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $1,050,000
- Taxes of $13,758
- Central Air
- 3-bedroom rental unit income of $2400 a month
- No parking- rental nearby
listing link is not working for me
Try this:
http://343wmenomoneest.com/
Redfin link: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/343-W-Menomonee-St-60614/home/13344612
ps: Make sure you click the “Yelp” and “Schools” tabs at the bottom. Funny!
“Make sure you click the “Yelp” and “Schools” tabs at the bottom. Funny!”
This in Lincoln Elem, right? How is that not in listing or tab. And what’s the algorithm that generates those yelp restaurant listings?
I do not love the finishes, but I could see this working for someone. A small family with need for in-law apt, which could be us someday. Would be more interested with parking, of course.
“This in Lincoln Elem, right? How is that not in listing or tab.”
It is there. Between Bernardin and Mayer.
“what’s the algorithm that generates those yelp restaurant listings?”
No clue. It really makes no sense at all.
haha those yelp things are funny… so far away… all of them!
“It is there.”
Ah, I see. Why ALL CAPS, why?
Looking again, maybe the finishes aren’t that bad but I definitely don’t like the furniture. I know we’re not supposed to talk about it, but it really leaves a bad impression.
DZ,
It’s the photography that is truly bad. I’m shocked that a million dollar home would have such poorly-lit, random photos.
Esp the one of the kitchen counter.It highlights a distracting cookie jar but You can barely see the expensive appliances.
Note to realtor: hire a real photographer.
Restaurants || Shopping || Home Services
Nobu 793.96 mi. distance
French Laundry 2,118.31 mi. distance
Great location. One of my favorite little blocks in the Old Town Triangle.
Weird place. Will take a unique buyer for the arrangement to make sense. How much to convert to single family and use all that space in a way that makes more sense? Probably have to price this around $800K to make it a candidate for that kind of project?
Overpriced by at least $200k. An no parking kills it. Look at comperables in Old Town–Expecting to get an inflated 2007 price is unrealistic.
So I’ve actually been through this property.
I’ve only been in the owners unit. I was not in the rental unit.
The owners unit is pretty nicely done. I like it. I think it feels smaller upstairs due to the A frame worker’s cottage style that is prevalent in Old Town Triangle. Personally, I wouldn’t want to raise a kid through high school in this place.
The property is well done. The previous owners if they did upgrade the place did a nice job.
Lovely lovely street. Parking is rough.
I do agree from a staging perspective that they could work on getting rid of some of the furnishings.
Jayzee: If this goes for 800k, then my limited view into Chicago Old Town Lincoln Park ahhh heck green zone pricing is waaaaaay off and I’m going to have to finally switch teams and decide who’s going to be captain (Bob or Homedelete).
“Overpriced by at least $200k. An no parking kills it. Look at comperables in Old Town”
Examples of comps?
“Examples of comps?”
Maybe (maybe):
1617 Hudson
430 Eugenie
330 Concord
Just look at that 97-07 appreciation. That’s 630k worth of phantom equity built up during the bubble. 148% return on just owning this property? 9.52% annual appreciation over 10/years?
This listing gets my vote for the most redonkulous ask price of the month nomination.
Just because some idiot bought it for 1.055MM likely using funny credit near the peak does not a million dollar abode maketh.
I am dying to know the financing used on that 2007 purchase. I’d be willing to bet there are HSBC or WaMu prints near this financial fiasco.
“1617 Hudson”
The photos are certainly comparably crappily taken (well, they’re worse I suppose).
The only thing I don’t love about menomonee is that the sidewalks are delapidated brick and about 2′ wide so if someone is coming towards you it can make things difficult 8)
No idea how much it costs to convert something like this to a SFH and/or who you need to pay off (this IS the city of chicago, folks), but it could be a nice longer term investment option for two younger DINKS who want to live in the neighborhood and plan to eventually have kids (great school!). The rental income would help with cash flow in the short term while the couple doesn’t need the space and then eventually they could convert the space into a SFH. The no parking is KILLER, though. I think we’ve seen a couple of other $1M+ homes in this specific area that don’t have parking sit for a while. It’s tough to spend this kind of $ and not have a place to park your car.
“The only thing I don’t love about menomonee is that the sidewalks are delapidated brick and about 2? wide so if someone is coming towards you it can make things difficult”
Lose some weight, fatty!
“I am dying to know the financing used on that 2007 purchase. I’d be willing to bet there are HSBC or WaMu prints near this financial fiasco.”
$650k to MERS, so you’d need to see the doc.
“The only thing I don’t love about menomonee is that the sidewalks are delapidated brick and about 2? wide so if someone is coming towards you it can make things difficult.”
Weird. This is exactly why I like it.
I like chinchow’s suggestion – it could really be a very workable situation – IF the couple in question DEFINITLEY knew that they were going to live in this area for awhile. Otherwise, it would be better to rent and wait until their life situation becomes clearer. For some reason, though, I keep thinking of “Pacific Heights” when I look at this place…
starring batman?
“Weird. This is exactly why I like it.”
well every time I walk down the sidewalk on this street I run into a smelly drunken hobo… its never an attractive milf or trixie 🙁
“every time I walk down the sidewalk on this street I run into a smelly drunken hobo”
I wouldn’t call chichow a hobo.
Sonies – when exactly are you walking down this street that you only see drunken hobos??? I didn’t think they let you in this hood unless you are a MILF or trixie 😉
usually around 6 on Fridays *shrug*
“when exactly are you walking down this street that you only see drunken hobos???”
btw, the one person I knew who would have qualified as a drunken hobo in and around the OTT died in the late 90s. He was an Old Town Ale House (daytime) regular. I suspect his drinkin’ buddies are still wandering around.
“every time I walk down the sidewalk on this street I run into a smelly drunken hobo”
That may have been me. Sorry about that.
well i’ll see you friday and say hello next time
@ anon (tfo) on
“Examples of comps?”
Maybe (maybe):
1617 Hudson
430 Eugenie
330 Concord
1617 Hudson. In general in Old Town Triangle, I find the East West streets to be nicer than the North South Streets. There are exceptions like say N. North Park and Crilly Ct. 1617 Hudson I think is a gut rehab to convert to a SFH. You really don’t want to do much to the owners section of 343 Menonomee as it is quite nice already
430 Eugenie: Couldn’t find it. Probably my bad
330 Concord. Could see it exactly on street view, but there is another property (perhaps the same listing agent) on Concord. Concord is not as nice of a street as Menonomee or Eugenie or St. Paul…
@Bob
I’m guessing there was quite of bit of work done in this unit. Whether or not the owners are going to get it back is a different story….
Also you are getting pretty close to land value at 600-800k in this part of town.
@rngirl
Historic Crilly Court has no parking either…
I went through this unit earlier this year. No parking and sold for 1.4mil but I don’t know how arms length of a transaction this is
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1700-N-Crilly-Ct-60614/home/13344166
@anon(tfo)
sometimes my neighbors come home taking the zig zag way, dropping keys, even sometimes with an *ahem* 420 stank.
and yeah Old Town Ale is where the drunkenness takes place
“Also you are getting pretty close to land value at 600-800k in this part of town”
Uh-oh. You just made Bob angry. You wouldn’t like Bob when he’s angry.
On the comps, I just picked the last 12 month closed sales of SFH/Multi for under $1mm in “real” OTT that seemed plausibly livable.
@anon(tfo)
Its ok. I was likely nit-picking as I know the neighborhood by walking it so much and trying not to be a fattie on the sidewalk
Besides if prices really hit that low, then I will really need to pick a team captain: Angry Bob or Vinegar Homedelete
wow: commenting on my own post
“Historic Crilly Court has no parking either…
I went through this unit earlier this year. No parking and sold for 1.4mil but I don’t know how arms length of a transaction this is
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1700-N-Crilly-Ct-60614/home/13344166”
maybe that place then on N. North Park has a chance after all….
“Its ok. I was likely nit-picking as I know the neighborhood by walking it so much and trying not to be a fattie on the sidewalk”
Quick and dirty, and qualified with the double maybe, so I was making no reps.
Plus, you rarely see fat hobos.
“Its ok. I was likely nit-picking as I know the neighborhood by walking it so much and trying not to be a fattie on the sidewalk”
Quick and dirty, and qualified with the double maybe, so I was making no reps.
“Also you are getting pretty close to land value at 600-800k in this part of town.”
Nope. You’re full of crap. There is nothing stating that lots in this part of town should trade at 600-800k. Apparently you think land value wasn’t prone to the speculative bubble as well.
I can’t believe I’m engaging in this . . . But I need a break from work . . .
Bob: please identify the sales in this neighborhood that support your statement that another commentor is “full of crap.” I don’t want more abrasive, unsupported nonsense. I want comps. Take your time.
@Bob
ok. let’s see.
I don’t know if I want to follow the Angry Captain Bob (might get more out of me by pushing me) or the newly mellowed but still Vinegary Captain HD.
So there is a multi unit (nice location) scary building with 2 parking spots at
214 W St. Paul Listing price is 900k. Multi right now and I am bringing up multi’s since it is sort of what we are talking about here. To convert to SFH, you would want to gut rehab take to wall studs.
Then there is pure vacant land. Admittedly south of North Ave, but still tending towards the East side of Old Town and a nice street (nicer than Wieland IMHO) not bad on the 1500 block and on the East side of N. North Park. Discount for the school district
1523 and 1525 N. North Park. Owned by our Chicago very own O’Brien. 2 lots. totally vacant. More of a fire sale, because they O’Brien is leaving the earth. Priced at 575k for each.
I’m going to ignore 1618 N. Cleveland in terms of the land value because that street is too different IMHO than 343 Menomomee.
—
For the above listed properties, I would like to know what you think the land values and land value with the currently erected structure should be in this market.
—
Of course bear in mind that I’ve been in Old Town for more than a decade and walk the streets drooling at some of the homes, but not weaving from the Old Town Ale house. I may also be biased given the quirk of ownership that ownership increases perceived value. And most of my living in Chicago has been green zone: Old Town, Streeterville, Gold Coast, South Loop (near Printer’s row before South Loop went to poo-poo.
@anon (tfo)
Understood. Double maybe 🙂
“Bob: please identify the sales in this neighborhood that support your statement that another commentor is “full of crap.” I don’t want more abrasive, unsupported nonsense. I want comps. Take your time.”
“For the above listed properties, I would like to know what you think the land values”
You do realize that it’s nickel beer night and you two are basically inviting a post-bar Bobrant(tm), don’t you?
I just hope it’s measured enough that Sabrina doesn’t delete it before I get to read it. Or even better, that it isn’t measured, but she’s too busy to delete it too soon.
“Double maybe”
And weird double post. sorry ’bout that.
This Crilly Court property was tastefully rehabbed and featured on the cover of Chicago Home Magazine.
“Historic Crilly Court has no parking either…
I went through this unit earlier this year. No parking and sold for 1.4mil but I don’t know how arms length of a transaction this is
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1700-N-Crilly-Ct-60614/home/13344166“
alanon:
Land sales in near north side = 0 over the past 9 months, per Trulia. It’s an illiquid market.
However, close to near north side there were three sales. One seems crazy to me, but whatever:
Date Price Address
1/19/2010 1,175,000 1849 N Maud
4/1/2010 519,000 1606 N Larrabee
8/11/2010 517,000 1639 N Vine St
I suspect 1849 N Maud was actually new construction as it’s listed as a REO resale.
600-800k my arse. We’re at ~520k and heading lower (volume of 2 = frozen market).
Oops volume of 0. Volume of 2-3 was for the closest proxy I could find.
“600-800k my arse. We’re at ~520k and heading lower (volume of 2 = frozen market).”
Don’t think they are heading lower than that – at 500k, there are plenty of buyers willing to jump on it (including me).
“Don’t think they are heading lower than that – at 500k, there are plenty of buyers willing to jump on it (including me).”
I’ve already heard by someone on this site that you’ve supposedly lost millions on investments/RE?
So I seriously doubt your ability to time any portion of the Chicago RE market, including land.
“So I seriously doubt your ability to time any portion of the Chicago RE market, including land. So I seriously doubt your ability to time any portion of the Chicago RE market, including land”
True – but that person also failed to mention that I made more money in real estate than I lost. In addition, as we have discussed before, having money does not equal having brains or being the smartest person around. I am surrounded by multimillionaires who are basically idiots who luckily (and some hard work) were able to gain a lot of money. This doesn’t mean that they are real estate experts – but they hear something from someone who heard from someone else that real estate is good and all of a sudden they want to invest. 500k for land in Old Town sounds good to them and they will jump on it. Whether it will pan out for them or not still has yet to be seen. Even you, Bob, don’t have a crystal ball…..
@Bob
I’m sorry, but I was talking about getting close to land value. This statement would mean that there is still value assigned to the structure if there is one on the lot.
For the Trulia example that you cited, would that be only for land? e.g. mostly empty lots? My point being that perhaps in that green zone area there are not that many empty lots available vs. just being a frozen market.
Maybe if we expand the search to multi-units which would open up 2 flats maybe 4 unit buildings that are tear down or gut rehab candidates for pricing….just a thought
“For the Trulia example that you cited, would that be only for land?”
Yes. Just land. But you can already get a fairly newly constructed 4,000SF 4/3.1 SFH there for 600k. (MLS 07335540–when clio moves in I know which lawn to p_ss on).
You mean to tell me that structure has negative or no value?
“My point being that perhaps in that green zone area there are not that many empty lots available vs. just being a frozen market.”
Actually this _may be_ true for the near north side as its filled with highrises and other commercial establishments (and I’m not an expert on this area & try to spend as little time as possible there). Likely not true for the entire greenzone, which covers a significant area.
Oh yes and chichow: that one listing I posted has been on the market a whole year today. Originally listed at 749k and languishing at 600k for almost two months now.
Methinks you have an overly optimistic assumption regarding land values in this area.
” But you can already get a fairly newly constructed 4,000SF 4/3.1 SFH there for 600k. (MLS 07335540″
That has to be THE MOST depressing area in Chicago – you can’t compare Old Town to that area.
“That has to be THE MOST depressing area in Chicago – you can’t compare Old Town to that area.”
I’m talking about land values within established neighborhood boundaries. You’re talking about cherry picking data points to support your position.
Bob – I’m definitely interested in a 600k 4k SF 4/3.1 SFH in LPHS, in Old Town. I tried that ML # and I am finding a really hard time mapping where Frontier street is. I find that 1155 Frontier is the address – do I have that right? For some reason Google & Redfin both show this place as being in the father & son parking lot.
Now the pic on Redfin makes me think this is in the subdivision that’s crammed in the no man’s land on Clyborn, by old Cabrini but I’m not finding the street on Street View. Is that what you are seeing?
Bob you have a knack for finding “comps” right on the L tracks.
“I’m talking about land values within established neighborhood boundaries”
Take a look at the map – is that an “established neighborhood”?~!!!! I don’t think so. No cherry picking needed for this argument.
ah, I see that I got it. Never mind. Bob, I think you are guilty of your opinion (cherry picking a data point)… but at least from this place I could walk to Whole Paycheck and VIPs! When I’m thinking Old Town I’m thinking of walking to Marge’s ,Twin Anchors, or Topo Gigio.
“by old Cabrini but I’m not finding the street on Street View. Is that what you are seeing?”
It is by old Cabrini, right across the street from the last standing highrise (which will be vacated at latest by 1/15/2011 and same goes for both midrises over on Oak St). Yahoo maps shows where it’s correctly located. Yahoo maps is funny in that it still shows most of the Cabrini highrises–I guess they only update the pics like once a decade.
@Bob
The property at 343 M is in Old Town Triangle.
I posted some properties that were around that area – Old Town Triangle and Old Town.
As part of your rebuttal you mentioned: MLS 07335540
and also stated
“I’m talking about land values within established neighborhood boundaries.” – I am going to guess that you were saying that this property is comparable to the ones that I had pointed out? If I am incorrect, please let me know.
Granted Wikipedia is not always accurate, but
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Town,_Chicago
would suggest that your property is not in Old Town.
Dreamtown splits out Old Town and Old Town Triange
http://www.dreamtown.com/neighborhoods/old-town.html
http://www.dreamtown.com/neighborhoods/old-town-triangle.html
In addition, I am not sure but is your comp adjacent to the CTA line?
—
This all being said, what do you feel the properties that I listed eventually sell for?
Bob you did exactly what I expected and confirmed what I’ve said before: you speak nonsense and you know jack shit about Chicago.
First, you offered three comps. Two are townhouses, so not evidence of land value. (please read Tragedy of the Anti-Commons before you reply). The other was a single family, which might be relevant, but the price didn’t support your conclusion so you dismissed it with the helpful phrase: “whatever.” You then picked the lowest price of the three and declared that the state of the market.
Second, even the irrelevant comps that you found have nothing to do with the property in question. Comparing 1606 N. Larrabbe to 343 W. Menomenee is like comparing Chicago to Waukegan. Just because it looks close on an arial view doesn’t mean it’s a comp.
I think you should have a more intelligent analysis in pocket before you declare someone else on the site to be “full of crap.”
“Bob you have a knack for finding “comps” right on the L tracks.”
No. Use Yahoo maps.
“In addition, I am not sure but is your comp adjacent to the CTA line?”
No. Use Yahoo maps.
@Bob
You are correct. Google AND Redfin are not locating your MLS 07335540 property
correctly which is why I thought that it was against the CTA tracks.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1155-N-Frontier-Ave-60610/home/12682039
I think that Yahoo maps is displaying it correctly, but I can always drive by and take another look.
But how do you that MLS 07335540 is not in Old Town?
And do you have a thought on what the the properties that I listed will eventually sell for? As a refresher, they were 214 W. St. Paul and 1523 and 1525 N. North Park
So was it nickel nite out last night?
Bob missed the best available evidence for his point:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1739-N-North-Park-Ave-60614/home/13344680
Of course, it’s still not very strong on his point–it’s 35×74 and still sold for $445k.
As to the Cabrini/ComEd substation SFH as a comp for OTT, that’s as ridiculous as using condos at 405 and 440 Wabash as comps for Trump–after all it’s right next door! How can Trump sell at $700psf, when you can buy a condo next door for under $250psf?!??!!! It’s the same, or at least close enough, isn’t it?
I think 1739 N. North Park was not arms-length. I tried very hard to get in on it. Made many phone calls. Got nothing. I asked around to neighbors to try to figure out what was going on, see if I could figure out how to contact the owner directly.
Basic story I got: it was owned by an old guy that was essentially incapacitated. He had to move out because he couldn’t take care of himself. It sat empty for a while. It was taken over by squatters. The family was fighting over who would get it. Some speculation that certain family members purposefully let it be taken over by squatters / let it fall to shit to either (a) make it seem less valuable so it was cheaper to buy the other family members out or (b) to make a zoning request to the city seem more attractive.
I don’t know if any of this true, but I do they weren’t interested in selling to the highest bidder because I would have paid more than $445k.
I’ve walked by 1739 and in and around and ran almost in terror.
You’re not going to be able to get a curb cut. And I being a neophyte have no idea how to rehab something that looks like that since it is in the historic district.
I didn’t mention it because its a weird piece of property. I’m not even sure it fronts N. North Park ( I fully admit I could be off and confusing it with another property around there)
It’s on the corner of North Park and Willow. Perfect location. This would not be a rehab, it would be an entirely new house with the rehabbed historic shell. I would be more optimistic about the curb cut. There are a lot in the neighborhood. And if you can afford the rehab then you can afford the necessary campaign contribution.
“I’m not even sure it fronts N. North Park”
Building address is 1739 NP, parcel address is 245 Willow.
But one of the reasons I stayed away was the (huh?) “rehabbed historic shell”
So does that mean you can build something from ground up that just looks like say…a worker’s cottage?
I’m really not optimistic about a curb cut. I know there were a lot before. I just don’t see it happening now.
It is a nice location
“But one of the reasons I stayed away was the (huh?) “rehabbed historic shell””
It’s an Orange building. You’d (likely) be able to completely gut the place, rehab the exterior of the shell and build a new house within the old shell. Almost like the Wabash facadectomies for the Heritage and the Legacy. and the parts not visible from the street (if any) could be changed, too.
What the other anon said.
They’re doing this to another house on Lincoln Park West, just north of Menomonee.
Price dropped to $999,000.