3-Bedroom East Lincoln Park Vintage Row House Tries Again With a New Kitchen: 474 W. Deming
We’ve chattered about this 3-bedroom vintage row house at 474 W. Deming in East Lincoln Park several times over the past year.
See our November 2012 chatter here.
Last year, when it was originally listed at $949,000, some of you thought that the two outdoor parking spaces were a detriment to a sale at that price.
But it was reduced to $924,500 and then withdrawn.
It has come back on the market, however, listed higher at $999,000, but it also now sports a “brand new” eat-in kitchen with Caesarstone counter tops.
To see the old configuration and pictures of the kitchen, look here.
The prior kitchen had white cabinets and a Viking stove but it didn’t have the kitchen island as it does now.
If you recall, the rowhouse is just a block from Lincoln Park and also just steps away from the shops and restaurants on Clark.
Built in 1882 on a 20×74 lot, it still has many of its vintage features such as stained glass, the original wood staircase and crown molding.
Yet it also has central air, a lower level family room and 2 parking spaces directly behind the row house.
All 3 bedrooms are on the second floor along with 2 baths.
The house has also been painted neutral colors on the interior this time around, although it has not been staged.
Will the new kitchen and paint make the sale in 2013?
Jennifer Ames at Coldwell Banker now has the listing. See the new pictures here.
474 W. Deming: 3 bedrooms, 3.5 baths, no square footage listed, 2 parking spaces behind the row house
- Sold in January 1993 for $266,000
- Sold in April 1995 for $307,500
- Sold in February 2001 for $640,000
- Was listed in July 2012 at $949,000
- Reduced
- Was listed in November 2012 at $924,500
- Withdrawn in February 2013
- Re-listed with new kitchen at $999,000
- Taxes of $14,922
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 18×17 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 19×13 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 12×11 (second floor)
- Family room: 30×19 (lower level)
“it didn’t have the kitchen island”
1. Looks like a peninsula, as it appears tied into the wall on the left side.
2. The Ames floorplan doesn’t show the peninsula.
3. Also, window over range was filled in, and the wall was adjusted.
4. …and the refrigerator was moved from the awkward spot it was in before.
5. Really looks like all new cabinets, to me.
Everything is selling and its Lincoln Park better buy now or be priced out forever!
Suzanne researched this for me and said its a DEAL!
It’s a bit more than a block from the park (more like two).
I still think that outdoor parking is a big turn-off to buyers in this range (heck, when we were buyers at half this price range, a garage space was pretty much a must). And many, though perhaps not most, buyers of this place will want to have the kids in private school. Those are the two biggest drawbacks of this place, in order of importance to would be buyers. The fact that the sellers have moved out doesn’t help their cause, either.
But I still like it a lot. The updates look nice, and Ames of course makes it look as good as possible, even empty. If we had the down for this place, we’d probably be convincing ourselves that having a garage isn’t all that important.
“Those are the two biggest drawbacks of this place, in order of importance to would be buyers.”
yeah because you *totally* represent the majority of buyers…
can you see my eyes rolling through that post?
“yeah because you *totally* represent the majority of buyers… ”
What do you see as the two biggest drawbacks (assume price is ‘reasonable’ in current market)?
‘no garage’ is a proxy for ‘short lot’. Were it on a 125′ lot, with alley access, but still no garage, that would not a drawback.
Alcott v Lincoln is a meaningful difference, assuming the buyer (or a *future* buyer) has kids. Were this similarly close to the park, but in Lincoln a-a, would have sold last summer (imo), so that’s a ‘drawback’, sorta, but really more of a discount item, and is priced in.
A $1 mln place with outdoor parking? I guess that’s city living. But even when I lived in the city (and in a place about a quarter the price of this one), I enjoyed heated garage parking with parking for my guests as well. That’s the advantage of living in a high rise, which I realize isn’t for everyone.
I love the general location of this place, but it also has drawbacks. It’s too close to Clark, and the office building directly across the street is a 1970’s concrete monstrosity.
sonies, who’s more representative of *would be buyers* of this place, you or me? Someone currently without kids living in RN, or someone currently with kids who’s outgrowing a home just blocks from this place? What would you say the biggest drawbacks (i.e., the reasons this place didn’t sell before, prompting the sellers to invest money in it after moving out) are for *would be buyers of this place*, i.e., small families looking to close on a (not especially large) 3 bedroom in the low to mid $900k’s?
Alcott is decent enough and well within capacity while Lincoln kids are scoring slightly higher, they are in a very over crowded school with questionable long term solution + the threat of many more kids moving in to the neighborhood once they figure out what to do with the old Children’s site. In any case, Francis Parker is nearby + St. Clement’s.
The walk to the park isn’t that bad – its a walk down (two) blocks past fancy new building and through a little tunnel to an ok playground and the north part of north pond. If the kid is on a scooter or a bike, its pretty fast to peggy nobart or the zoo.
Great location. Not too concerened about the outdoor parking. Not ideal, but I think this place will move fairly quickly. The changes enhance its appeal.
Oh my this is gorgeous.
I’m just saying that you are a snotty, picky motherfucker, and if you represent a majority of people in lincoln park, I sure as shit don’t ever want to move there.
I actually like this place though, except for the outdoor parking
Better to stage this sucker without furniture. That “dining room” would be a serious pain in the ass to get thru if you actually chose to put a dining table in it. Den is too open to feel den-like.
“The walk to the park isn’t that bad – its a walk down (two) blocks past fancy new building and through a little tunnel to an ok playground and the north part of north pond”
I did’t mean to imply that it’s too far from the park, only that it’s not just a block away. And I agree, the new building on Lakeview Ave and the forthcoming related SFHs (or RH/TH?) have greatly improved the vibe of the street. Plus, Sunshine, which is a rather modest/wooden/old playground, but with arguably the most beautiful setting/backdrop of any playground in the city (I’d say rivaled only by one on Sheridan in RP, directly on the beach/lake), is slated for a complete overhaul.
As for the school issue, I don’t think it’s so much a matter of test scores as it is reputation. Honestly, I’ve never compared the scores of Lincoln v. Alcott or other northside elem’s. You’re absolutely right about the overcrowding issue at Lincoln, but when I talk with Lincoln families (the school enthusiasm/involvement/pride/community of which seems as intense as private school families), they seem to assume that they’re going to implement some sort of viable solution (when, who knows). (It’s also my understanding that Alcott is slated for some expensive improvements in the near future.)
sonies: picky, yes, otherwise I’d have a bigger and nicer home elsewhere, but I’m probably the easiest going, down to earth (practically salt of the earth by area standards) sort you’re going to run across in LP. I’m a guy who routinely (it’s basically a habit) offers to take the pictures of tourists/visitors who are taking a pic of their family or straining to take a selfy with the park/city/zoo in the background, much to their pleasant surprise. If my placing a premium on living in a hood that people relish taking photos of/being photographed in makes me snotty, so be it.
“sonies (May 30, 2013, 10:31 am)
I’m just saying that you are a snotty, picky motherfucker…”
We are talking about a $1mm 3BR home – so would be buyers should be picky. I think the biggest obstacle is that its a 3BR place. Most buyers in the $1mm area will be looking for 4BR.
“I actually like this place though, except for the outdoor parking”
So, you agree with the “snotty, picky motherfucker”. Got it.
Anonny – why is the empty place a drawback? If I were a potential buyer, wouldn’t an empty place be a sign that the sellers have moved out, need to sell this place ASAP and would be more open to negotiate?
Actually I take that back, I don’t like this place, here’s why….
The living room (why the separate “den”?) and kitchen are too small for a 1mm place, thats where I spend a majority of my time when Im at home.
Bedrooms who cares, long as you can fit a king sized bed and hopefully there is ample closet space and room for a few dressers, but oh wait, the closet space sucks in the master bedroom, and there is no tub in the master bath, just a shower. Which I don’t care about but lots of women would.
There’s a walk in closet in the second bedroom and a fireplace, but the lack of attached bathroom makes it un-useable as a master bedroom.
The finished basement looks to have super low ceilings (like 6′?), wouldn’t work for me
The 3rd bedroom is a joke, doubt its even big enough for a twin bed
“why is the empty place a drawback?”
It’s not a drawback for a buyer, nor is it helping the seller’s cause (which is to sell this place, presumably for as much as possible). I think you actually captured the reasoning perfectly: “If I were a potential buyer, wouldn’t an empty place be a sign that the sellers have moved out, need to sell this place ASAP and would be more open to negotiate?”
“Alcott is decent enough and well within capacity while Lincoln kids are scoring slightly higher, they are in a very over crowded school with questionable long term solution + the threat of many more kids moving in to the neighborhood once they figure out what to do with the old Children’s site. In any case, Francis Parker is nearby + St. Clement’s.”
Brady is correct.
Alcott overall has (including 19% low income):
95% meeting and exceeding
57% exceeding
Alcott non-low income has:
97% meeting and exceeding
67% exceeding
Lincoln overall has (including 14% low income:
96% meeting and exceeding
68% exceeding
Lincoln non-low income has:
98% meeting and exceeding
75% exceeding
“Brady is correct.”
So, if there were identical places, across the street from each other, with the only difference Lincoln v Alcott, you would *not* expect the Lincoln place to sell first and/or for more money? It isn’t a question of “is alcott good enough to send my kids to”, it’s the comparison, as it relates to ~$1mm homes.
Vlajos – wow, thanks for the stats. There is still a stastically significant difference in exceeds, but I guess we can always hope our kid is in the exceeds category. The upper middle class families are most likely about the same on either side of Fullerton and the really wealthy – whatever that means – (and really dedicated to education) on both sides probably send their kids to Francis Parker or Latin or elsewhere. We bought our place in 2011 and are just down the street from this place so our kid will eventually attend Alcott, but we did try to find a place in the Lincoln Elementary school district, but also the Nettlehorst area. As far as I can tell, the majority of the kids from all three of these schools come from financially well-off parents who are mostly over educated and believe in public education.
I’m very happy to hear that play ground by North Pond is scheduled for rennovation!
That field and play area next to Alcott is slated for a major overhaul – I’m not sure when, but they are busy raising funds. The Nettlehorst parents seem so well organized and so do the Lincoln Elementary parents because of the school over crowding issue, so I’m glad the Alcott parents can rally around something. I am also hoping for some great shopping and dining options one day over at the old Children’s site.
Totally OT:
Any early line on what the Aggregate EAV or Tax Rate will be? Trying to figure out if my taxes will go down, now that the equalization factor is out.
anon, I would probably go with Alcott due to the over crowding at Lincoln. Lincoln has been good for over 10 years, Alcott has changed dramatically over that time. The lower scores are likely due to the ever dwindling demographics in the upper grades.
You forgot about the stay at home mom’s bragging rights…
Alcott is just so… *ohhhhh your son goes to ‘that’ school*
Your son goes to Lincon… *gasp*
Just looked at 3rd grade scores at Alcott and Lincoln. All students:
Lincoln
94% meets and exceeds
75% exceeds
Alcott
97% meets and exceeds
73% exceeds
“anon, I would probably go with Alcott ”
I phrased the question advisedly. I *knew* *you* would answer that way, if the question were posed as “what would vlajos do”; that’s why I made it “which would you expect to sell faster and/or for a higher price”.
I take your fighting the hypo to mean that you agree that the Lincoln house would sell faster and/or for a higher price.
“I take your fighting the hypo to mean that you agree that the Lincoln house would sell faster and/or for a higher price.”
Yes, the Lincoln home would sell for a higher price. But I think in a few years, Alcott will be at the same level and will be a better purchase.
How you answer the hypo depends, among other things, on how you answer these questions.
Are million-dollar buyers:
1. Unable to do basic internet research?
2. Douchier than other buyers?
3. Uninterested in value?
4. Unwilling or unable to visit the schools and ask probing questions?
“Uninterested in value?”
The hypo allows for the identical homes to be listed at the same price. If they were the same price, do you doubt that the Lincoln home sells first? Perhaps that is bc of #2, but it is unlikely bc of #1 or 4.
This is a general question, and a bi-product of watching to much income properties on HGTV.
Would this place be a good candidate for an income property? It seems like the basement is quite large and can be converted to a 2 bedroom rental, and probably demand $2000 a month for rent.
If that were the case, then you are looking at about 2 to 3000 for mortgage payment, which make this place much more affordable.
“do you doubt that the Lincoln home sells first?”
Sells first or sells for more? After all, list price is not necessarily deal price. Are the houses listed at the same time? Do you assume an identical pool of potential buyers may make bids on both houses simultaneously? Or can you make only one bid on one house?
Douchery would certainly be a potential factor in the decision to bid on the Lincoln house and not the Alcott, but so could a misjudgment about the quality of the schools and their component of the house prices. All we have established is the diminishing difference between the two schools based on one metric, test scores. If one were to assume that no further information is available, that would push a rational buyer to go for the Alcott house in the expectation that it will be cheaper (all other qualities/selling points being equal). However, if we assume that more information is available — say, by obsessively scanning NPN, CPS Obsessed and other sites, and by visiting the schools or talking to LSC members and parents — our million-dollar buyer might well form the opinion that Alcott is poised to overshadow Lincoln and therefore its quality is underweighted in the price of the Alcott home. Or he might be confirmed in his bias toward Lincoln. So, are million-dollar buyers disposed to this kind of due diligence? I certainly am willing to concede that I don’t know as many of these people as you do.
Out of curiosity I looked at the Winnetka elementary school district 36.
98% meets and exceeds
51% exceeds
The district has 0.3% low income students so there is no break out per income level.
Where do the low income kids live in these neighborhoods or is there still busing?
There are still apartments in these neighborhoods that are affrodable. There is no busing for Attendance Area schools, which both Alcott and Lincoln are. Also, if you start in a school and move out of the attendance boundaries you can still go, though transportation is your problem not CPS.
“Sells first or sells for more? After all, list price is not necessarily deal price.”
and/or. as weasally as it gets.
“Are the houses listed at the same time? Do you assume an identical pool of potential buyers may make bids on both houses simultaneously? Or can you make only one bid on one house?”
Listed at the same time and (magically) exactly identical down to that one slightly off-color tile in the 3d bath, except that one is in Lincoln and the other in Alcott, and are the same distance (same # of cross streets, etc) from their respective schools and the park/X-bus/el/whatever other walkable amenity floats the buyers’ boat. And the potential buyer pool has no prior connection to either school, etcetc.
Basically, I’m saying that the ‘brand name’ school is a draw. Regardless of whether that is accurate, or not. 140 years of the advertising industry backs that up pretty well.
Would a given individual buyer choose the Lincoln version over the Alcott? Dunno. But as a reflection of the overall market, yeah, the Lincoln house sells first and/or for a higher price.
“Also, if you start in a school and move out of the attendance boundaries you can still go”
Sort of/sometimes. You are not *supposed to*, per official rules.
“Sort of/sometimes. You are not *supposed to*, per official rules.”
Really? I didn’t know that. Maybe it’s up to each school to decide?
I don’t follow those rules too closely, but until recently kids were able to officially attend certain schools after having moved out of the attendance area if they had started in that school. There was a lot of abuse and gamesmanship (and probably outright fraud) so the kids doing that as of a couple of years ago were grandfathered in but no new kids can do that. Or something like that. Check CPS Obsessed, I’m sure, for the gory details.
“as weasally as it gets”
I’ll admit I’m trolling you a bit, but there’s nothing weaselly about my quibble. Nothing in your scenario compels any conclusion about relative time on the market. There will be buyers for both hypothetical houses; it’s a low-inventory market, after all. What the price difference will be is a marginally more interesting question, and I salute your bravery in arguing that, given two commodities, the one with the more lustrous brand will command a premium. Just how much is that premium? If you can tell us, I’ll be impressed.
However, the “meaningful difference” you posit between the schools turns out very probably not to be meaningful but rather symbolic — a matter of branding. That’s what Brady intuited and Vlajos confirmed.
“Really? I didn’t know that. Maybe it’s up to each school to decide?”
7th and 8th graders are specifically permitted to remain until end of 8th grade, but everyone else is supposed to enroll in the new a-a school at the beginning of the next school year.
The place where it specifically does not matter is if you get into a magnet based on proximity lottery and then move–kids don’t need to re-lotto for a non-proximity spot.
“there’s nothing weaselly about my quibble”
I wasn’t addressing your position (wouldn’t call it a quibble); I was addressing my set-up of ‘faster and or higher’ not necessitating either. As you note, the position that brand premium exists isn’t exactly nobel-worthy. Hence my admission that I set up a weaselly scenario.
But it was all based on anonny’s subtextual point that Alcott is deemed ‘inferior’ to Lincoln to a certain market segment (which happens to be a large portion (but perhaps, or even probably, not most) of the likeliest market for this place, at this price), and the subsequent “well it’s not really inferior” argumentation. I can make the same argument (at the risk of putting our 12-stepper into a downspiral) about Budweiser v. Busch–“Busch is actually almost as good!”–doesn’t mean that 9 out of 10 people wouldn’t still choose the Bud first and/or (there it is again!) pay more for it.
All of that in the context of me being one of the CPS stalwarts around here. So it’s not about Alcott not being ‘good enough’ for my kids, or your kids, or whatever; just that Lincoln has more cachet, which matters when someone is choosing where to spend one meeeeeeeelllllion dollars.
TFO, sorry, didn’t pick up that context. You are indeed a maven on all that CPS stuff. Also, I’m feeling prickish and HH is being boring and pointless today.
“7th and 8th graders are specifically permitted to remain until end of 8th grade, but everyone else is supposed to enroll in the new a-a school at the beginning of the next school year.”
I suppose you are arguably discussing elems, but if you’re in neighborhood HS, don’t you get to stay all the way through even if you move?
“TFO, sorry, didn’t pick up that context.”
Nothing to be sorry about.
Unless you know what constitutes ‘binge drinking’ in bobland and are holding out on me.
“if you’re in neighborhood HS, don’t you get to stay all the way through even if you move?”
From the same rule, HS’ers are supposed to switch at semester break.
But I assume that no one who cares and is going to an a-a school would not figure out a way to not tell the school, whether it’s just not telling them, or using a relative/friend address.
http://policy.cps.k12.il.us/documents/702.1.pdf
Seems like you have option to stay?
“Seems like you have option to stay?”
That’s how it reads in plain meaning, but if you do that then this:
“Seventh and Eighth grade students whose parents change their place of residence, however, may remain in the school until graduation if they desire to do so, provided the distance factor does not adversely influence the students’ safety, attendance or academic progress.”
becomes meaningless, and that’d be contrary to accepted rules of construction. Yet consistent with the expectation that CPS doesn’t use a plain meaning, or rules of construction, for anything. But then, it’s sort of a bona fide catch 22.
Whatcha talkin bout willis? Why does it make the 7/8 stmt meaningless? You can go to non aa school on either case as long as cps doesn’t deem it a problem.
“Why does it make the 7/8 stmt meaningless?”
All of it is subject to “cps not deeming it a problem”, so that’s moot.
“However” means they are being treated differently. And, if *everyone* could just stay until ‘graduation’, why spell it out specifically for 7/8? Why not just rely on the general ‘unless cps deems it a problem’ carveout? Because there must be an intended distinction!
Now you’ll say “why mention 8, if everyone can stay til the end of the year”–haha!–it’s bc there are a non-negligible number of CPS student who do not ‘graduate’ 8th grade on the first try.
The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism defines binge drinking as a pattern of drinking that brings a person’s blood alcohol concentration (BAC) to 0.08 grams percent or above. This typically happens when men consume 5 or more drinks, and when women consume 4 or more drinks, in about 2 hours.
““However” means they are being treated differently.”
The “however” for 7/8 means they are treated differently from K-6. The “however” for HS means those who want to stay on an differ from the standard expectation that they will move. This seems like a convoluted way of denying an error, aka pulling a sabrina.
Ze: exactly. When aperitif + shared bottle of wine + digestif = ‘binge’, there’s something wrong with the world.
DZ: g.o. But pedantry about construction aside, CPS has put word out that a-a attendance is based on residence at beginning of the school year, regardless of how the rules read, and they would argue the rules read consistent with how they are applying it, with a vaguely plausible pedantic argument for their reading.
At what point in the 21st century do we reach a point where buyers will reject those radiator heaters in the rooms? at least as it relates to a high-end property? yeah there are “vintage” types out there, but as time rolls on they’re not going to want those things sitting in the rooms.
Under Contract!
“Under Contract!”
Not surprising. The old kitchen was the worst part of the interior; the new kitchen suits the rest of the house much better.