3-Bedroom “Priced Below Market” in East Lakeview: 616 W. Waveland
This 3-bedroom vintage high first floor unit at 616 W. Waveland in East Lakeview has been on the market since July 2010.
In that time, it has been reduced $89,000.
It is now listed at the 2005 purchase price. The listing says it is “priced below market”.
The building was constructed in 1935 and it has some of the features of the time period including a separate dining room, a sunroom, barrel ceilings and leaded glass.
The kitchen has 42 inch cabinets, stainless steel appliances and granite counter tops.
It has an in-unit washer/dryer but no central air (window units only.) There also is no parking but it is available to rent at The New York high rise, at 3660 N. Lake Shore Drive, which is across the street.
Is this a deal?
Scott Zelkin at @Properties has the listing. See the listing here.
Or you can see it in person at the Open House, Sunday Dec 12 from 12- 2:00 PM.
Unit #1: 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, no square footage listed
- Sold in March 1999 for $296,000
- Sold in September 2000 for $372,000
- Sold in December 2005 for $450,000
- Originally listed in July 2010 for $539,000
- Reduced several times
- Currently listed at $450,000
- Assessments of $450 a month (includes heat)
- Taxes of $6254
- No Central Air- only window units
- In-unit washer/dryer
- No parking
- Bedroom #1: 14×13
- Bedroom #2: 14×13
- Bedroom #3: 12×10
- Dining room: 21×13
- Sunroom: 12×12
Looks like a great unit in a nice area. While having window unit a/c can be a pain, you can always get more units. It probably would have sold already if it were not for the parking issue.
“Priced Below Market” actually is the truth, considering that the last sale in 2005 was the “market maker”.
Nothing here that another 50K off the price won’t fix. Except for those cabinets that appear too close to the range.
I like. sq. footage?
There wasn’t any square footage listed- but these are always bigger than you think because there is the dining room, sunroom, den, 3 good sized bedrooms, a large kitchen etc.
I was trying to do my $/sq. ft calculation to see if I agreed on the $400k gets it done.
while this place is nice, i feel like these big vintage lakeview east apts with no central A/C and no parking are a dime a dozen. i feel like this is worth $300-350k. if we are at 2002 pricing, which i think we are (or at least will be in the next few years), and assuming 2%/year from 1999, this is worth about $315k.
Who buys a family sized apartment (3 bedroom) without parking? I really want to carry my bag, a diaper bag, and a bundled up 2 year old outside and across the street to get the car on a day like today…that’s luxury.
a local nailed it. The parking issue is the primary reason that I didn’t buy one of the giant, stately 3 beds (or 2 beds with a den/office area) in ELV in this general price range (having looked at several). With a kid, there’s no way I would buy anything without onsite garage parking.
While this place may be big, who wants it without central a/c or parking? And what do these $450 in condo fees get you? Someone to clean the slide in the backyard? I hate listings like this where people think that they can get some sort of premium for a basement apartment… I would say that the common yard is more of an asset to the people on higher floors that can enjoy it and not have a bbq/screaming kids right outside their place.
Oh – and as for the listing… Listing it as having “# of Cars: 1, # of Exterior Parking Spaces: 1” is nothing short of fraud. Why not put 10 spaces since you could rent 10 spaces from the building “across st” if you wanted to.
I love this place. Love the windows, huge dining room, sun room, big deck overlooking a grassy park instead of an alley. As someone who bought a place with no on-site parking, I’m not as bothered by that issue, and yes, I had a small child when we bought. One negative is that it’s north of Addison and therefore not in the Nettelhorst school district. It’s in the enrollment boundary of Greeley, which definitely is not as robust a public school choice.
Jon, it says the assessment includes heat, i presume for the units and not just the common areas. Since it doesn’t have AC and is a vintage building, Id guess its a shared furnace left from when it was apartments.
1) No central air.
2) First floor.
3) No included parking.
4) Not so “robust” public school boundary.
I think this owner has his ask price confused with properties that are none of the above. Next.
I’ve gotta say I’m really surprised by how low the assessments are given the size of the unit and that it includes heat I would have expected something closer to 6-800.
Any guesses on Sqft, I’d say at least 2300.
Also mortgage rates are 62.5bps above where they were only six weeks ago. That translates into a significant amount of money.
This seller’s best chance to sell this since it was first listed was likely in October. Its my guess they aren’t getting anywhere near what they paid for this near the peak of the bubble.
The people looking in this price range and area are likely looking at properties like this at 632 W Barry, a 1st floor unit with similar square footage and assessments:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/632-W-Barry-Ave-60657/home/13372747/mred-07629079
1) Indoor parking space, elevator to unit
2) 3 bed/3 bath
3) Central air
4) Nettelhorst
This seems priced out of the market at 450k.
Gorgeous large apartment with beautiful details and much nicer finishes than the average rehab.
But it’s not 2005 anymore and it lacks certain things that, while they don’t matter to me, they are major things for most buyers- like parking space and central air.
20% off the 2005 price, or about $380K.
im really curious what these type of units will be worth in a few years or are even worth now. ive seen many that sold for mid to upper-200s in 1999, low to mid-300s in the early 2000s, and >400k in the mid 2000s. are they really worth that much more than 1999 with no parking, no central a/c, and assessments often >$500/mo. there is a HUGE glut of these type of units in east lakeview.
“But it’s not 2005 anymore and it lacks certain things that, while they don’t matter to me, they are major things for most buyers- like parking space and central air. ”
which brings up the question, who thinks it’s priced below market, the seller or the agent? Just for fun, maybe that could be part of the next MLS upgrade, next to price there should be
S – Seller set price
R – Realtor set price
SR – both agreed on price
“there is a HUGE glut of these type of units in east lakeview.”
Its as if everyone thought they could plop down 400k+ and sit on a property for five years living the good life in ELV, then sell for a 50k profit in five years time and run off to the burbs. Its a great strategy that works until it doesn’t. As this owner is finding out.
jfmiii : No, they are not worth more than the 1999 price and in fact there is a strong argument to be made that they are worth less than the 1999.
I fully expect these to be selling in the low 200’s again before the end of next decade.
“I fully expect these to be selling in the low 200’s again before the end of next decade.”
End of next decade as in 2019? When college costs $100k per year? Good luck.
Low 200s, well then you would certainly might have a sitaution with Rent potentially paying off PITI, do you ever think it would get to that point?
“End of next decade as in 2019? When college costs $100k per year? Good luck.”
He’s now calling the early-90s trough as the bottom? When the $ is already worth 1/3 less than it was in ’93? Maybe if it’s tied to a sharp increase in mortgage rates, but that would be tied to greater inflation and greater nominal (tho probably smaller real) incomes.
Sounds like HD’s trying to rationalize not buying for a *long* time.
“Low 200s, well then you would certainly might have a sitaution with Rent potentially paying off PITI, do you ever think it would get to that point?”
It’s been at that point more often than not in the last hundred years. And, with this unit, low 200s would *certainly* result in a decent returning rental property at current tax rates.
It’s precisely because college costs $100k and student have to borrow that and repay at interest that units like this, in neighborhoods like east lakeview, where a significant portion of the population has a college education and has to repay student loans. There’s only so much income that can be allocated towards housing because student loans and other living expenses take up the rest.
Anon(tfo) – I’m not calling a mid-90’s bottom, I was responding to the assertion that these units are a dime a dozen, and this one has no parking, no hvac, and high assessments. Because of that, these types of units will overshoot the median.
“JMM on December 8th, 2010 at 10:44 am
“I fully expect these to be selling in the low 200’s again before the end of next decade.”
End of next decade as in 2019? When college costs $100k per year? Good luck”
“Anon(tfo) – I’m not calling a mid-90’s bottom, I was responding to the assertion that these units are a dime a dozen, and this one has no parking, no hvac, and high assessments. Because of that, these types of units will overshoot the median. ”
Um, if you are asserting low-200s for this type of condo, then you most certainly are calling for early/mid-90s pricing. If you’re saying that you aren’t calling that as the bottom, are you projecting a return to mid-80s nominal prices (b/c prices were higher in late 80s/early-90s)?
sorry, overshoot the bottom, not median.
This depresses me. I’ll never be able to unload my 2/1 condo because it won’t sell for what I owe on it and I cannot afford to bring the difference to the table. No SHF for us. 🙁
I’m also not trying to rationalize buying for a long time; the market is doing a great job of making it difficult to buy enough without having to rationalize anything. Why the heck would I buy in the longest coldest winter of the slowest real estate market in 20 years?
I’ll probably buy sooner than all you think. I’m not waiting for the ‘bottom’ – I’m waiting for a reasonable selection of livable move-in ready smallish house in a decent hood to appear on the market at a price that makes sense in my budget. As of today, the selection is dismal, most homes are still overpriced and the market in decent areas is nearly frozen. My budget is just fine but there’s no way I’m going to buy a small crapshack for $2,200 a month PITI and put $100k or more into it when in a year or two I can get something better without the requirement of a general contractor. Is that too much to ask?
Here’s one that just sold, priced little high I think, due to the fact that there’s only one house of this quality on the MLS in the neighborhood per month…and they go FAST.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3823-N-Kildare-Ave-60641/home/13457894
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3747-N-Lowell-Ave-60641/home/13458486
Here’s a brand new listing for an SFH the next block over at needs so much work they don’t even bother to put any pictures into the MLS.
$442,000 needs $100k at least of work vs. the $371,750 and is livable, update over time.
Well, Mr. Market, what does your crystal ball say?
I like how they say “newer kitchen” but don’t even bother to put a picture of it. hahahaha! Newer whatever.
They should’ve taken photos of the newer vinyl windows.
“I’ll probably buy sooner than all you think. I’m not waiting for the ‘bottom’ – I’m waiting for a reasonable selection of livable move-in ready smallish house in a decent hood to appear on the market at a price that makes sense in my budget. As of today, the selection is dismal, most homes are still overpriced and the market in decent areas is nearly frozen.”
Question is if prices do come down to where you would like (which would probably be associated with a lot of bad news in housing and economy generally), will you be worried they might go down more, and consequently wait?
“Here’s a brand new listing for an SFH the next block over at needs so much work they don’t even bother to put any pictures into the MLS.”
Isn’t it possible they’re just a little delayed in getting photos up?
“Question is if prices do come down to where you would like (which would probably be associated with a lot of bad news in housing and economy generally), will you be worried they might go down more, and consequently wait?”
You know, that is a concern with deflation but I will reach a point in my life, soon enough, that renting will not be the best option for my needs and I’ll bite the bullet. However, with long term plans, a large down payment and with an appropriate purchase price, I’ll be just fine.
They could be a little delayed, yes, but with a price like $442,000 when the house the next block over sells for $371,750, this tells me it’s not a serious listing. And by not a serious listing, the price is too high and will stay that way for a long long time. The neighborhood is filled with them.
“Isn’t it possible they’re just a little delayed in getting photos up?”
Don’t be silly DZ. Anytime there’s any lag at all, it’s because the place is a dump–nevermind what E.Rojas posted earlier this week about sometimes having calls for showings before getting pix up–that only happens when the place “needs $100k at least of work”, and if Eric says something else, it’s because he’s lying.
Ditch the condo one way or another, take the hit to your credit, save a lot of money, and somewhere near the middle of the decade, start looking for an SFH. Make it a long term goal. My sister with the carpenter husband who is suffering due to the real estate depression also wants a house. I told her that it should be a long term goal. Just because she has two children and a dog she doesn’t automatically deserve a SFH with three beds, a yard and a garage in a nice suburb. She has terrible credit, spotty work history and no down payment. MaKE a SFH a long term goal. You’re stuck in a 2/1 so get out of it, one way or another, save your money, and then in 2014 or 2015 or 2016 start thinking about a SFH. It sucks, and it’s not even close to instant gratification but life is a marathon, not a race.
“#Icarus on December 8th, 2010 at 11:18 am
This depresses me. I’ll never be able to unload my 2/1 condo because it won’t sell for what I owe on it and I cannot afford to bring the difference to the table. No SHF for us. 🙁
“
“but life is a marathon, not a race. ”
?? But a marathon *is* a race.
“Anytime there’s any lag at all, it’s because the place is a dump”
Normally, Irving Park HD is in a better mood.
“I will reach a point in my life, soon enough, that renting will not be the best option for my needs and I’ll bite the bullet”
You really can rent comfortably for a long time, I have. Biggest pressure comes when you’re getting close to kindergarten and want more permanence (and a bit before that too, as kids are going up and forming friendships).
“Just because she has two children and a dog she doesn’t automatically deserve a SFH with three beds, a yard and a garage in a nice suburb. She has terrible credit, spotty work history and no down payment.”
Must have been a fun thanksgiving.
“But a marathon *is* a race.”
No its a place.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Beach-Resort.jpg
Thank goodness thanksgiving is only once a year.
I can rent comfortably for a long time. I’ve been renting since I was 17 and moved to roger’s park and that was nearly 20 years ago. I didn’t make the RE estate bubble, I’m just living through it.
I can’t get the SO to even look at open houses anymore. She’s put together the budget 50x and with all the necessary expenses (austere to the bone btw) there’s no way she’s going to spend $2,000 or more a month to move in to a crapshack that needs another 100K in work to bring it from 1978 into 2011. And for commuting/time concerns, where I live now is about as far NW as I can do (except for the pipe dream of park ridge) I’d love to move to west town, west loop, bucktown, wicker park, but even condo prices for units that can comfortably fit a family are pricier than SFH in the more northwest areas or anywhere along the other northside neighborhoods. I understand I’m not going to live next door to a biglaw partner or a radiologist but I’d still like to live in an area with professionals and still go to a public school. But whatever, it’s 10 degrees outside, I’ve got a ton of work to do and I’m having trouble getting motivated to work today.
“Just because she has two children and a dog she doesn’t automatically deserve a SFH with three beds, a yard and a garage in a nice suburb. She has terrible credit, spotty work history and no down payment.”
Must have been a fun thanksgiving.”
I thought it was a gas station
HD, you are saying ditch the condo now and plan on the SFH in 2014 or later? And try to save the difference between PITI and Rent for that goal?
“No its a place.”
“I thought it was a gas station”
Both of those are proper nouns, signaled, in standard English, by an initial capital letter. It was marathon, not Marathon.
“Both of those are proper nouns, signaled, in standard English, by an initial capital letter. It was marathon, not Marathon.”
Why is standard English (shouldn’t standard be capitalized?) rather than HD english more relevant?
“Why is standard English (shouldn’t standard be capitalized?) rather than HD english more relevant?”
I hadn’t noticed that HD had an issue with standard English (which I’ve seen both ways, but probably more often capitalized–don’t care).
I’m saying, if you’re presented with a situation that seems unbearable, there are options. First, don’t take my legal advise unless you come to my office, so find a competent seasoned lawyer who is familiar with this stuff…
secondly, depending on your situation, walking away may not be the worst option. Staying in an underwater condo for years is a bad option. Getting a HAMP that turns your 30 year loan into a 40 with a balloon payment is a bad option, etc.
if you have a lot of credit card debt, and a second mortgage, no assets, BK might be an option.
if you have only a first mortgage and no other debt, walking away, taking the hit to your credit may be best. save a large down payment over the next 4 or 5 years and then apply for a mortgage.
FHA changes the rules all the time about how long you have to wait after a foreclosure; right now it’s 2 years for a BK and 3 years for a foreclosure, as long as you have good credit (not a single late bill after the foreclosure); a 20% down payment solves a lot of problems as long as you have good credit.
It’s tough for me to give advice without seeing your creidt report and analyzing your financial situation. but if you walk away the foreclosure will be years from now. Possibly a deed in lieu is better if you can avoid a foreclosure entirely on your credit report then it’s all gone in 7 years (no judgment) instead of 10 years (with a judgment).
REgardless, it’s all long term, and you need to have a plan and stick with it. but the sooner you do it, the better. 5 years wait can start now or it can start in three years.
You can choose to stay and honor your mortgage too as long as you are satisfied where you live.
regardless, you are not stuck, you have option. none are pleasant but you can make a decision, stick with it, and hopefully end up better financially for it.
“#Icarus on December 8th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
HD, you are saying ditch the condo now and plan on the SFH in 2014 or later? And try to save the difference between PITI and Rent for that goal?”
“f you can avoid a foreclosure entirely on your credit report then it’s all gone in 7 years (no judgment) instead of 10 years (with a judgment). ”
Having no impact on your credit score does not equate to “its all gone”. I don’t think it ever goes away, and some employers (if: financial services) might care about that kind of stuff. Most don’t, but he should know this caveat.
“The people looking in this price range and area are likely looking at properties like this at 632 W Barry, a 1st floor unit with similar square footage and assessments:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/632-W-Barry-Ave-60657/home/13372747/mred-07629079
1) Indoor parking space, elevator to unit
2) 3 bed/3 bath
3) Central air
4) Nettelhorst
This seems priced out of the market at 450k.”
Is Nettelhorst a good school district?
“except for the pipe dream of park ridge”
Where is Park Ridge?
It seems to me that a SFH is likely out of reach for more than the medium term in Lake View, Lincoln Park, [insert other green area here] if you are stuck in a 2/1 because you cannot afford to cure the deficiency of 10-20k (my made up number), which is likely due to the fact that there was not 20% down in the first place.
It’s a big step up to a SFH and saving 20k and having the taxpayers float it is not going to get you there.
“It seems to me that a SFH is likely out of reach for more than the medium term in Lake View, Lincoln Park, [insert other green area here] ”
True. However owning a nice condo/townhome in these nice areas for around 400k is definitely attainable. And the selection will only get better. The end of 2010 is a far cry from the boom days when the selection sub-200k was mostly garbage.
Although you can get smallish older SFHs in North Center for substantially cheaper, I suspect these aren’t the type of homes most CCers talk about when they mention a SFH.
JMM:
2/1’s have been SLAMMED in most areas outside the green zone (And in some areas of the gz too) and a bad decision to purchase one in 2005/6/7 is detrimental. There’s nice units in my area that sold in the $260’s in 2005 that are listed in low 100’s now, excellent condition, and they still aren’t selling, even at that price. The dumpier 2/1s in older dumpy builings, you know the ones that should have never been converted, they’re selling in the 80’s, 90’s, etc. There’s basically no way to recover from that.
A SFH in the green zone is out of the question for most people, just simply based upon supply and demand. there aren’t that many of them to begin with so the ones that exist are priced high. However, there’s a huge difference between being expensive and being in the stratosphere, which is the distinction that i’ve tried to make for a while. And low interest IO super jumbo ARMs aren’t helping to bring prices on those few remaining move in condition SFH back to earth either. You may not want to get an IO Superjumbo ARM to buy that house in roscoe village but a two parent working household is more than willing to get that loan; and the IO ARM gives them a little extra juice to keep the price up.
“and some employers (if: financial services) might care about that kind of stuff”
It seems like anyone who has a job that pays them enough to afford a condo or better in the city of Chicago could be subject to a credit check in any event:
“Under the new law, employers may access credit checks under limited circumstances, including positions that involve: bonding or security per state or federal law; unsupervised access to more than $2,500; signatory power over businesses assets of more than $100; management and control of the business; access to personal, financial or confidential information, trade secrets, or state or national security information.”
I asked our GC what signatory power over business assets over $100 meant and she laughed. Basically, anyone who can submit an expense report it seems.
In other news I found an awesome condo at an incredible price in a non-GZ hood recently. What kills the deal is $1,240 of taxes + assessments. (For those interested its MLS# 07395073)
Condos are starting to scare the crap outta me.
“It seems like anyone who has a job that pays them enough to afford a condo or better in the city of Chicago could be subject to a credit check in any event”
“access to personal, financial or confidential information”
Wow that law is about as toothless as they come. Basically anyone that could potentially be in front of a spreadsheet.
$86,500.00 in 1997
$70,360.00 today.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4330-N-Keystone-Ave-60641/unit-3D/home/13481311
2/1 foreclosure.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4334-N-Keystone-Ave-60641/unit-3A/home/13089724
Here’s a $156,000 1/1 in the same building listed for two years.
What are the chances this will eventually become a foreclosure?
pass on 07395073 bob, pass. you don’t want that regardless of the price.
next.
OK back to this property…
We have an almost identical condo just around the corner from here. Same specs too- no a/c (window units), no parking (rented behind building for $150/mo.) huge separate dining room, sunroom, the only difference is that we’re on the top floor, and we’re a 2/2 because while their 3rd bedroom is almost identical to our den (french doors, size) we can’t call it a bedroom because it doesn’t have a closet.
We fell in LOVE with the vintage detail and don’t care if the value has gone down (and come on, we bought in 06 so it obviously has!). We have a toddler, and yes have to walk up 3 flights of stairs, and from the car (although we drop off in front a lot), but it’s worth it to live in the area, being so close to the lake and to have a place we love.
(sucks about Nettlehorst but Greeley isn’t terrible… there’s always the lottery)
Ooooh check this out! http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/648-W-Grace-St-60613/unit-2/home/13379493
I walk the dog by here all the time and always wondered about it. Man talk about curb appeal. Literally one block up from this place on Waveland. Cheap assesments, a/c, parking (for 2!)… hmmmmm. Seems like a better deal to me.
“I walk the dog by here ”
no pets allowed in that building… second floor unit and the rooms are TINY in that one
“pass on 07395073 bob, pass. you don’t want that regardless of the price.
next.”
Not until the HOA is brought inline for those assessments. Crazy stuff out there.
why do you want to live on the south side bob… you will hate it there
“why do you want to live on the south side bob… you will hate it there”
Parts of it aren’t too bad. And a place like that would cost a half a mill, easy, on the north side.
I’d rather live in Monte Claire or Rogers Park than friggin bridgeport or any southside hood
and what exactly would you do with those 14′ ceilings, bob? 😉
School district aside, I don’t think north of Addison has nearly the same appeal as the area between Addison and Belmont. It gets sketchier the further North you go. Somewhere down by Roscoe not having a designated parking space wouldn’t be a deal killer (partly because it’s such a snarly congested area for traffic I’m sure many people who choose to live there drive as little as possible). I don’t think those buyers are interested in being up here.
“We have a toddler, and yes have to walk up 3 flights of stairs, and from the car (although we drop off in front a lot), but it’s worth it to live in the area, being so close to the lake and to have a place we love.”
The difference is you are rationalizing a purchase decision after the fact whereas a new buyer has the ability to rationalize before the fact.
I’d be willing to bet that most new buyers #1 fear is repeating the same mistakes the previous decade’s vintage made. If a buyer has financial wherewithal, I would expect they are only choosing the perfectly clean housing options in this market.
“Not until the HOA is brought inline for those assessments. Crazy stuff out there.”
But it includes heat and cable!
“But it includes heat and cable!”
And a/c. So, 85 in the winter, 55 in the summer.
“But it includes heat and cable!”
Skinamax once upon a time had value…until THE INTERNET.
Talk about a Catch-22!!! You’re in debt so you apply for a job so you can get out of debt…but you can’t get hired because you’re in debt!
Welcome to the wonderful world of the new-millennium HOUR people – the test-tube offspring of Big Brother and pre-Xmas Scrooge.
As for who would buy a condo without central air or parking: how about “Green Generation” types who’d rather just open the windows for the lake breeze that’s quite abundant in that nabe during summer, and who generally eschew private cars for CTA or taxis.
Plus, of course, it has that intangible “plus” of easy walking distance to the Ron Santo Shrine. (Hail and Farewell, gonna miss you guy!)
And as for schools, there’s also Disney Magnet and St. Mary’s parochial on Sheridan. But who’s to say that Greeley couldn’t pull off a Nettlehorst-style upgrade?
HOUR should be HOUR for “human” resources.
My computer is going rogue on me today. I am trying to type H.R.
Kieran & LVSF, the condos at 632 W. Barry are a horrible comp to this vintage condo on Waveland. If you look at the list of amenities, sure, it seems nice to go with the new construction. But the quality at the Barry property appears to be substandard (most of the units are still on the market, 2 years and counting at this point…). I toured two of the units early this year and the floor boards were already buckling. The “3rd bedroom” is really the living room. Or you just don’t have a living room. The dining room is so tiny, you would be limited with what furniture you could have in it. For enjoying actually living IN my home, I’d choose the well-constructed vintage property on Waveland any day.