3-Flat in North Center Sells for $94,500 Under the 2005 Price: 1929 W. Berteau
We last chattered about this 3-flat at 1929 W. Berteau in North Center in March 2011.
See our prior chatter here.
At the time, the chatter was mainly about how much money developers were willing to pay for a lot in the Coonley school district as most didn’t believe an investor would buy the property or that someone would be willing to convert it to a single family home.
Purchased for $550,000 in 2005, it recently sold for $455,500.
If you recall, this property was listed as a 3-flat but was then being used as a 2-flat with an owners unit and a basement rental.
The property only had 2 kitchens.
Built in 1893 on a standard 25×125 lot.
Here were the configurations of the unit from the listing:
- Unit #1: 1 bedroom, 1 bath- rents for $500
- Unit #2: 1 bedroom, 1 bath- rents for $1100
- Unit #3: 2 bedrooms, 1 bath- rents for $1100
There was no central air and only a single heating system.
The 3-flat has some of its vintage features intact with woodwork, wood doors and what looks to be some original hardwood floors.
Ellen Webber at @Properties had the listing. You can still see the interior pictures here.
1929 W. Berteau: 3-flat, 4 bedrooms, 3 baths, 2 car garage
- Sold in September 1994 for $171,500
- Sold in December 1997 for $270,000
- Sold in April 2005 for $550,000
- Originally listed in February 2011 for $499,000
- Sold in June 2011 for $455,500
- Taxes of $7238
- No central air
Wow. Even the 1994 and 1997 prices were high, especially for a frame house.
Ugly POS constructed in the 19th century sells for nearly half a million. The new owner can even keep the basement dweller.
This doesn’t make sense to me at all as an investor or home owner. Your total income is 32000/year. Your total expenses will be over 10k (7200 for taxes and AT LEAST 3k for upkeep). You are at 22000 max income on a 455k investment (and, truth be told, your expenses are likely to be higher and your income is likely to be lower). With this type of uncertainty and risk, who, as an investor, in their right mind would buy such a place?
It will be a SFH.
buy now or be priced out forever in NorCen!
I’ll rent the basement for 500$ 8 days a week. I will buy the new owner a Starbucks gift card each Christmas for subsidizing my housing expense while they bleed cash.
Even as an SFH this makes no sense. A tiny, 19th-century frame house squeezed tightly onto a tiny lot in a second-class location. What kind of fool pays half a million for that?
“Even as an SFH this makes no sense. A tiny, 19th-century frame house squeezed tightly onto a tiny lot in a second-class location. What kind of fool pays half a million for that?”
It’s a standard lot size in a good city neighborhood. Not sure what you’re talking about.
I agree Sonies, North Center will be outrageously priced in the future.
yea but its an unupdated POS structure on a city lot in a good babe. are lots in north ctr worth 600k? I doubt it.
err nabe. freakin autocorrect
$200K and you’ve got yourself a home. Updated homes are expensive in the area.
Many of the homes I’ve been following for months/years at are going under contract and selling at prices far higher than I believe to be profitable or fiscally prudent. Sellers are holding out at that wishing price for months if not years now and some of them are actually going to get it. A few buyers have finally capitulated that the bottom is in and are buying like there is no tomorrow. Sure, volume is down, but the number of pending contracts in the areas I follow are higher today than I’ve seen in *years*. Granted, the homes are at the lower end of the price spectrum are primarily the homes that are selling, and even scarier, there seems to be far far fewer homes going on to the market to replace the existing lower priced homes under contract and/or that have sold. All that will remain in some areas are the extremely overpriced or higher end stale property that has been sitting for months if not years, because the simply *overpriced* properties have all sold or are contingent.
which brings us to this property which no one can figure out. It doesn’t really cash flow, it would make a horribly overpriced SFH conversion, no one expects it to be a teardown; yet it closed within 5 months of first being listed. I see this nonsense all over. Which is why I think I’m going to take a step back from this all, and return in 6 or 12 months, and then review the market to get a new perspective. The old HD perspective clearly no longer applies and maybe a six or 12 month break from it all will give me a new fresh perspective on where the market is heading. I need to clear my head, i actually find it a bit upsetting how horribly dysfunctional the market is these days.
I realize it’s a typical city lot. For some reason, to my eyes, it looks tighter than usual. Maybe I’ve been living in the suburbs, with my 60-foot wide lot, for too long.
$200k (or more) into a smallish home $455,000 home puts you pretty close to $700,000 deep; which is not an insignificant sum of money for a tiny little structure like this. I don’t see this reselling for $700,000 anytime soon, but then again, it is bizarro world out tehre.
“Vlajos on August 15th, 2011 at 11:21 am
$200K and you’ve got yourself a home. Updated homes are expensive in the area.”
How tiny is it? Probably 2000 SF plus basement no?
HD: i like the latest incarnation of HD. Realistic, rational, confused. Pretty appropriate reaction to this market, imho…
the assessor (i know, i konw) claims it’s 2,333 including the basement apartment on a 3,125 foot lot. I’d say the main floor is probably 1,000; the second floor is 583; and useable basement space is probably 750ish. That’s if its a usable sfh. Or someone may have bought it to keep as a rental and are banking on appreciation. I can’t tell you how often I still hear of investors buying property at prices that barely cash flows because they’re hoping for future apprecation.
regardless of the wisdom of this mentality (or sanity of the investor making the purchase) – these purchases are closing, everyday, at prices far higher than most people expect, and buyers like this are supporting the bottom end of the market up.
TftInChi: It is confusing, and disturbing, to say the least.
“I don’t see this reselling for $700,000 anytime soon”
Reno’d (and not that nicely reno’d) SFH have sold in coonley somewhere in the $600Ks and $700Ks. I haven’t followed closely enough to know where on the spectrum this place would likely fall (which depends in part on the reno). Does seem a bit expensive as a tear down.
don’t worry HD, two more years of ZIRP will help the housing/employment situation! LOL
“Reno’d (and not that nicely reno’d) SFH have sold in coonley somewhere in the $600Ks and $700Ks. I haven’t followed closely enough to know where on the spectrum this place would likely fall (which depends in part on the reno). Does seem a bit expensive as a tear down.”
Yep, they already are selling in these price ranges and higher.
HD – hange in there – the biggest difference between losers and winners is consistency, stability and staying power.
“Yep, they already are selling in these price ranges and higher.”
Is anything that is comparable to a reno’d version of the subject property selling in the $800Ks, or higher?
This was most likely built as a modest single family house, turned into a multiunit in the mid 20th c. This is no bargain for an investor or rehabber, but it could be a nice single family for a couple or family willing to out some sweat equity into the house.
Most houses in the area are prices far far higher.
I agree 100% dahliachi
“Ugly POS constructed in the 19th century … ”
But I thought all CC’ers and urban dwellers only liked “old Victorian houses”? [sarcasm]
I do agree that it went for more than I would expect, but maybe North Center is more ‘Green Zone’ than Belmont and Racine, now? Compared to the 2/2 at 3126 Clifton, with price cut to $275K
“I do agree that it went for more than I would expect, but maybe North Center is more ‘Green Zone’ than Belmont and Racine, now? Compared to the 2/2 at 3126 Clifton, with price cut to $275K”
This is a SFH, not a condo.
it appears parts of north center are holding their ground–parts near the brown line. southern NC is getting hammered as much of lakeview is lately.
“southern NC is getting hammered as much of lakeview is lately.”
Bullshit.
monkeyboy HD foreclosures popping up n of diversey s of Addison e of river w of ravenswood lately and languishing. even ones that aren’t totally trashed but listed for around 200k ain’t moving.
This is a SFH converted to a “3 flat”. Will it get torn down for a Lake View McCondo building? I.E. a 3-4 story red brick facade on cinder block?
“This is a SFH converted to a “3 flat”. Will it get torn down for a Lake View McCondo building? I.E. a 3-4 story red brick facade on cinder block?”
No
north center isn’t just your Roscoe village wine sipping SWPLs who wouldn’t stoop to take the bus. its a large community area genius. and yes southern NC is gettng hit hard both houses & condos.
Hey Bob, my effete friend, foreclosures that languish, and no one wants condos, for $200k.
“Bob on August 15th, 2011 at 3:49 pm
monkeyboy HD foreclosures popping up n of diversey s of Addison e of river w of ravenswood lately and languishing. even ones that aren’t totally trashed but listed for around 200k ain’t moving.”
I’ve shown this “three flat” to clients and it was pretty pretty rough and I was not crazy about its lot position or surrounding buildings.
However, this home is in Coonley, and Coonley has been the hottest school district I’ve seen on the North Side for homes this year…and for a long time. Its bonkers. I did a blog post showing over 53 single family homes sold (not including two and three flats) in Coonley boundaries in the first 6 months of the year with a median of $700K (compared to 20 sold in the adjacent, established and popular Bell school over the same period and $800K plus median). Many homes were wrecks bought for rehab.
Coonley homes had a median of $700K for the first 6 months. Modestly renovated homes with three bedrooms up, a master suite and finished basment were closer to $800K minimun this year and went up fast for nice finish level.
A 10 year old plus single family home gut renovation behind this property on Berteau at 1929 W Belle Plain sold recently at $749K. It had only two beds up, funky closet situation and outdated/ unattractive (but very large) bath. Only two beds up is a killer… 3 up and it would have sold for $800 plus easy. It had a 37 lot and really nice main floor and gorgeous open rear staircase to the finished lower level. Great curb appeal. Soooo…
The buyers of this house will realistically need $300K-$350K to gut rehab with modest finish level and build rear addition where the HUGE deck system is now. I think $455K was a tiny bit of an over-pay, but if this is anyone experienced, the house will work out fine for a personal residence. A developer may even be able to leverage a higher-end rehab and make mone in the district. The buyer’s agent does not seem to represent developers.
Good location, walk to grocery, great dining and any other need you could have. Easy commute around the city from this location.
To shield yourself, you’d really want to keep this all in under $800K. With the school, Brown Line, amenities…it’ll be okay and what you forget, the onwers get to gut rehab which is desirable to a few of us.
Another example is a wide 35’x125′ lot gut rehab of a bombed out shelter on semi-busy 4706 N Damen closed for $880K (and in McPherson school district, which means, although improving the school probably did not matter and on busier street across from busy bar The Rail). The real estate broker bought that disaster for $250K and went real nice on the rehab, at least $450-$500K most likely, and closed at $880K pretty quick after listing.
So Eric, you’re telling us that most people are now priced out of Blaine and Bell for SFH (let’s be honest- there is not a “starter” home in those neighborhoods anymore) so they just moved north a bit and now the price appreciation is “on” in that neighborhood?
Maybe Lake View High School WILL improve because I don’t understand where all these kids will go to high school.
Price of subject property seems high relative to this new listing (or maybe this one is low):
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1933-W-Belle-Plaine-Ave-60613/home/13389470
“there is not a “starter” home in those neighborhoods anymore”
There are the places west of western I was trying to sell HD on (and yet people do buy west of western, including ~$1MM places in bell).
“Maybe Lake View High School WILL improve because I don’t understand where all these kids will go to high school.”
Purely a guess, but I’d think if you took all the students in CPS elementary that were in LVHS attendance boundaries and made them (even excluding those that get into SE schools) go to LVHS, that it would be a decent school right away. Not that you can do that, but there are a lot of good or good-ish elems *potentially* feeding LVHS. (Most of Coonley is not in LVHS.)
“Hey Bob, my effete friend, foreclosures that languish, and no one wants condos, for $200k. ”
Actually single family homes as I posted in the other thread, too. Nobody wants to put the legwork into fixing them up because 1) they’re not near the El and 2) the SWPLs who are willing to overpay for properties aren’t good at handywork.
Several smaller, non-updated SFHs to choose from under 300k within those boundaries, not all are trashed, either. But people like you make excuses and complain about outrageous property values while snubbing your nose at these.
You called BS without knowing a damn thing. Just talking out of your ass, as is typical of you lately.
+1 on Sabrina’s LVHS observation.
Raising kids requires long-term planning. Plopping down 700K on a POS like this just because the elementary school is good and you hope the HS will improve is not only economically stupid, it’s not the right thing for your kids. It means you’ll have to uproot them if LVHS doesn’t improve. I have a kid entering middle school this year, and at this age, they’re going through enough stuff in life without having to move into a new school full of kids they don’t know. Stability means a lot.
Sabrina,
I stated facts about prices of homes in certain school districts. I make no inference if its affordable or not or if anybody is “priced out”, or that expensive Bell pushed people north, thereby raising prices in Coonley.
Coonley homes (adjacent to Bell) have become desirable and prices stable (if not rising in some cases) because it was perceived as a good school district and then in late 2008 Coonley became a Regional Gifted Center with huge grant money. Boom. If Coonley does not become the “Groupon” of new schools, than home prices and unit sales would be less regardless of how expensive Blaine and Bell are. It is mutually exclusive.
For instance, Lincoln Square home prices adjacent to Coonley is suppressed a bit due to its elementary schools are under the radar. However, the area offers a lot of nearby relatively affordable private Catholic and other private schools in a terrific neighborhood. So, NOT hot, hot hot like Coonley, but not a disaster either because of other desirable factors (i.e $600K house and cheap private school, great retail and transportation). Go north of Foster in Lincoln Square community area and you lose a lot of the “good location factors” and prices go down. Still nice neighborhoods, but little buzz and not enough factors to command higher prices.
Coonley has become very desirable for families that value the school and value the people who go to the school. And they pay. The 2000 block of West Bradley for example is one of the most expensive and desired north side blocks in my experience and is also in Coonley (which jacked it up over the last couple years). People buy into that lifestyle… and that block is a world of its own.
Stupid or not as some people feel these folks are… they are choosing to spend their money for a particular experience and lifestyle they value for their families. The schools, who goes to them and the atmosphere/ amenities of the neighborhood are very important to my clients. There are actually more choices in my opinion these days for quality elementary schools but people are very particular and they should be. The high schools remain a challenge and parents do face very tough decisions.
The funny thing is many pay $800K plus for a house to have a good public school, while many folks I know in more modest priced homes well under $600K send their kids to private Catholic. However, in good neighborhoods like Northcenter and Lakeview with similar amenities, $600K and $800K are two very different houses.
Other good schools- if you can’t get one of the major buzz schools like Blaine, Bell, Lincoln or Burely- are Oscar Mayer in Lincoln Park and Hamilton in Lakeview, Agazzis in Lakeview, Audubon in Northcenter (maybe officially buzz-worthy)… there is a lot now. But, houses will be well over $500K starting in a “buzz school” district on the North Side for a very very modest home in today’s seemingly universal standards (must be like new) or unless you can rehab.
If you’ll do some rehab with modest finish level, there are many houses and two flats that make sense economically for your family in addition to providing the lifestyle you’re looking for. This is the formula I use personally… old house cheaper than other homes on block, big enough, great neighborhood, needs work, watch my budget, no worries.
To answer Dan #2, assuming you are talking about this three flat, They paid $450K may not gut, but just fix stuff for $50-$100K and re-configure, send their kid to private school or Coonley and live there and enjoy the city for 20 yrs. Or not have a kids. Who knows? Most likely, its a person of means and they will gut the home and they are not worrying about Lake View High School’s future while at their French Villa during summers.
“The 2000 block of West Bradley for example is one of the most expensive and desired north side blocks in my experience and is also in Coonley (which jacked it up over the last couple years). People buy into that lifestyle… and that block is a world of its own.”
2000 block of bradley is in bell.
Thanks for posting here Eric
“Thanks for posting here Eric”
I appreciate the thoughtful perspective too (didn’t mean to just criticize).
“Most likely, its a person of means and they will gut the home and they are not worrying about Lake View High School’s future while at their French Villa during summers.”
Yes- thanks for posting here Eric. It’s always nice to get the perspective of the agents who work in these neighborhoods.
Because to the rest of us- that someone who lives in North Center might have a “french villa” that they use in the summer time seems just absurd. I’m not doubting you that you run into these people- but it just goes to show you that there are some very strange goings on in the city right now.
That is working class/middle class housing in that entire area. I know there are tear downs and re-builds etc. But it doesn’t even begin to come close to the upper class housing that was built along the lake front over the last 125 years.
And yet all the rich people are moving to North Center? Go figure.
“People buy into that lifestyle… and that block is a world of its own.”
I’m just curious – as this is all new to me about Coonley suddenly being this hot- but what is the “lifestyle”? I don’t get it. Does everyone on this block on Bradley hang out with each other in their new construction homes sipping wine together? Why is that any different than what goes on a few blocks south and east in Southport? Or what goes on in East Lincoln Park (less new construction there though.)
I’m just trying to figure out the vibe.
Heck, just two years ago on this blog, they couldn’t give away $450k houses right across the street from Coonley but I guess now they would sell quickly.
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing Eric. I guess I will have to cover that area more since it is the new hot spot.
“This is the formula I use personally… old house cheaper than other homes on block, big enough, great neighborhood, needs work, watch my budget, no worries.”
Two flat at 1614 W Roscoe ask price of $412k (cut 10k today alone) gets ‘er done. I dunno the school but it seems like a great deal for a younger family with the means and they could rent out the other unit and later grow into it. Used to be “deals” like this were 100k higher a year or two ago.
I’m sure they’ll be something “wrong” with this to the chatterati howlers who want a turnkey SFH with all the modern amenities including an excellent school district and a rooftop deck for 250k. And same people will miss the bottom of the market.
Okay that ones on the el but if it wasn’t that’d be a great deal. Hell if I were a deaf person I’d be touring it tomorrow.
Substitute in 2911 Seeley.
Basically if you can’t afford 800k turnkey maybe its time to make some compromises or be willing to in the next few years instead of hoping and waiting for those 800k properties to come down to 400k. There will always be lazy rich people willing to overpay for convenience. Maybe they have family money maybe they’re both busy lawyers/big4 partners/doctors whatever it doesn’t really matter. I’d rather save 400k and do some (simple) work myself and pay others piecemeal to fix it up over time.
“Substitute in 2911 Seeley.”
Maybe the worst corner of NorthCostco, with Jahn likely to be the neighborhood school. Needs a *lot* of work, just from the pix, to even make it to rental grade. Nice looking house, tho, especially after you add a proper front porch ($15k+).
Coach house is a *huge* plus tho.
“I appreciate the thoughtful perspective too (didn’t mean to just criticize).”
I’ll add to the appreciation for the posts, but maybe you should ask Sabrina to go back and fix/delete that “Bradley is in Coonley” line.
“ask Sabrina to go back and fix/delete that “Bradley is in Coonley” line”
I’m just hoping to hear more about the new construction wine sipping lifestyle.
DZ, right on Bradley for Bell and I meant Bell for the “uber-lifestyle” example. Thanks! That whole rant and I write the wrong school.
Go to 2000 W Block of Bradley on a sunny summer Sunday church hours or to their block party… you get a good feel right away. The block simply LOOKS different. Landscaping amazing, houses gorgeous, everybody is out, talking etc… Its a lifestyle, as some East Lincoln Park blocks or Old Town Triangle are lifestyle’s in their own way.
Also, most of those on Bradley are wide lots. Most homes are gut renovations or new construction. Two homes sold earlier this year around $650K for gut rehabs and a 1.5 bath home on that block just went under contract at $899K! It is a “lifestyle” beyond the house. Buy a house on Damen around the corner outside of Bell and it’s already a different lifestyle, you’re second tier (if you care about status and kids playing in front of the houses on your block etc…).
Many Northcenter, Lincoln Square, Ravenswood blocks are very tight, good atmosphere, neighbors know each other and the kids out playing together in front of houses each day. That’s why people need to ditch the “why BLANK rather than Lincoln Park” if you have over $1M to drop as these factors I mentioned are more rare in my opinion. A lot of people don’t want to live in Lincoln Park for any number of reasons (Personally, I’d like to live ELP when single or after my kids are grown, but not married with kids). Every market has it’s own people that value whatever tangibles or intangibles that location offers. School, lots, neighbors, house size, lake, status, commute… whatever. Then, there is a heard mentality that will drive that little market.
I also agree with Bob if people that really want to own a house in the “green zone or close” (and financially can move) they would “lower” their standards of what house finishes/ layouts “should” be and just fix some stuff or keep the old, but good, finishes- they’d cut their loses from their condo and be in their own house gaining positive equity and enjoying the rest of their life. I just painted my fence and garage door… looks new (well, better). I know a lot of people frozen in place out of fear.
Sabrina, As for folks with means, there are a lot of $1M plus home sales in Northcenter (and $700K to $1M for that matter). A lot of these folks have healthy discretionary spending, vacation homes and travel quite a bit… so, a small home in France or big house in Union Pier, MI not out of the question!
“I also agree with Bob if people that really want to own a house in the “green zone or close” (and financially can move) they would “lower” their standards of what house finishes/ layouts “should” be and just fix some stuff or keep the old, but good, finishes- they’d cut their loses from their condo and be in their own house gaining positive equity and enjoying the rest of their life. I just painted my fence and garage door… looks new (well, better). I know a lot of people frozen in place out of fear.”
Eric- you have to agree that most people are simply too far underwater to “cut their losses from their condo and be in their own house gaining positive equity.” Some have the income to rent out the condo and buy the second property- but I doubt it’s many who can afford North Center or Ravenswood/LS- with the two mortgages. I’ve seen some people move to the suburbs and keep renting out the city condo though.
Do you blame them for being fearful if they’re taking $100k or $150k losses on their condos?
Sabrina, you do a great job with the site. Don’t let the negative people get to you!
“Do you blame them for being fearful if they’re taking $100k or $150k losses on their condos?”
Only if they aren’t fearful over taking a $50K loss on their $80K car!
dont forget your biking distance to Wrigley and that all that really matters!!!
so so sorry i could resist, please continue on as i find all this very informative.
Eric- your post makes me want to puke. Life is soooooo perfect and wonderful in rich people blocks. Oh joy.. puke.
HD – there are always going to be people richer, better-looking, smarter, more successful than you – always. The key to happiness is to not compete with anyone. Enjoy what you have – you will realize when you are there because you won’t feel any envy at others’ success. I completely would be overjoyed if everyone I knew was successful, good looking, smart, etc. I never ever feel even the slightest bit of jealousy towards anyone – never.
Clio u obviously missed the reason why I wanted to puke and its not jealously.
“I never ever feel even the slightest bit of jealousy towards anyone – never.”
dooode you have been jealous of me since day one, even if you wont admit it outloud we all see the undertone in your typing.
“Life is soooooo perfect and wonderful in rich people blocks. Oh joy.. puke.”
The dynamic of neighbors getting along, kids playing on the block, isn’t restricted to the rich people blocks. My current block (with some neighbors you would consider beneath you) has plenty of that.
This is something I think anonny doesn’t fully appreciate (and I realize his choice has different benefits). The simple pleasure of taking a stroll after dinner, talking to some neighbors, kids playing together, on the block. Like a freaking passeggiata or something, but enjoyable.
“Eric- your post makes me want to puke. Life is soooooo perfect and wonderful in rich people blocks. Oh joy.. puke.”
I have to admit- it’s a bit much for me too. He makes it sound like the kids are running from backyard to backyard, that everyone is vacationing in their french villas (or wait- in Union Pier, MI) without any concerns about the local public school, money, the recession, etc.
Because it’s a “lifestyle.”
But doesn’t that exist in many, many city blocks around the city (and the suburbs?) Not that much different between those North Center blocks and living in Oak Park, Evanston, and any older suburb by the train station which has similar houses and blocks. Heck, my friends kids in LaGrange run from backyard to backyard and when the power goes out on one side of the block, the other side runs extension cords over to their refrigerators. But maybe that is a “lifestyle” there too.
I appreciate Eric’s perspective though. We rarely hear from the realtors. They know what is “hot” and what is not. And he definitely makes a case for people to pick certain parts of North Center or Lincoln Square over the traditional “rich” areas like Lincoln Park.
“But doesn’t that exist in many, many city blocks around the city (and the suburbs?) Not that much different between those North Center blocks and living in Oak Park, Evanston, and any older suburb by the train station which has similar houses and blocks.”
When you add in requirements for a good neighborhood school, short commute, and some stuff to walk to, that’s when it starts narrowing. IMO the single thing that made coonley “hot” was the school. (It’s “hot” b/c there’s lots of new construction and renos, but that’s in part b/c there were a lot of previously less desirable places to work with. Still seems to be less expensive than bell, as far as I can tell.)
even in my ghetto hood we chill on the front porch, we have a darn lively block party, and wave and talk to the neighbors. I cut the grass for a elderly lady across the street and clean her gutters.
and i see this throughout chicago its not just “bradley ave”
Ha, you guys are ridiculous. You ask why homes are desirable and expensive in certain places than dis the reality. Puke away HD, its true. Those “rich” people love their block and newcomers pay the price. Oak Park, LaGrange, wha?
Yes, there are a lot of people that have less problems in this recession. Secondly, someone buying on Bradley Place does not want Oak Park. That’s the point. It’s what the buyer values and what they perceive as better for them and what they can afford in context to their values.
I mentioned the last house to sell on 2000 block of Bradley was 1.5 bath house for $899K! They might not be concerned with the recession or unemployment. A similar house in Oak Park with nice neighbors would be $450K. What’s the point? There is none. They don’t want to live there.
Mind you, many buy houses like cars right now. Money is cheap, they get the model they want with less concern about the appreciation, because there is no appreciation. But, its what they want and they can afford it.
Many of my clients would not think of sending their kids to my kids school or live on my block. I like my kid’s school and I like my block. Who cares? They can get what they want.
Keep your focus. This is not about you or the block you like, its about the actual market demand and what people actually pay for and sell and why. That’s how we price properties and get deals together.
This three flat is about a 10 min bike ride to Wrigley and its sold…Coincidence?
“This is the formula I use personally… old house cheaper than other homes on block, big enough, great neighborhood, needs work, watch my budget, no worries.”
That’s like this one, which was renovated, not demo’ed:
http://cribchatter.com/?p=9398
3447 N. Paulina: 3 bedrooms, 1.5 baths, 1320 square feet, 2 car garage
Sold sometime before 1991
Originally listed in March 2008
Withdrawn
Was listed in July 2010 as “as-is” and a “builder’s/rehabber’s dream” for $349,000
Sold in September 2010 for $275,000
“This three flat is about a 10 min bike ride to Wrigley and its sold…Coincidence?”
absolutely awesome!!! i tip my hat to you and your sense of humor. i thank you with all my heart for adding that last line, put huge smile on my face to start my morning out right!
Ha! Eric, let’s face it – the rich really are better people. They’re better than me, better than you, they’re smarter, kinder, friendlier people with better tastes, they have better children, they are the next step in the evolution of man, and they all choose to live in the 2000 block of bradley place. They don’t have a care in the world, they buy what they want, they don’t care about appreciation, the poor and the recession mean nothing to them (hell they don’t see poor people at their estate homes in the south of france…). it’s arrogance eric. I know plenty of people who make plenty of money, and guess what, they still go to the bathroom just like you or I….
Eric, nothing more true could have been written. Sure I could buy a huge house in Naperville. But I hate Naperville and would never live there. That Bradley Place home for $899K, that’s what I like.
“Secondly, someone buying on Bradley Place does not want Oak Park.”
Not sure that’s clear. They don’t want naperville and prob not la grange or hinsdale, but oak park could be in the running. Certainly a different house/lot and trade offs you’d be looking at in OPRF, but seems to me it could be in the running.
early last decade I rented an apartment for 2 years on damen ave less than a block and a half south of the ‘magical and desirous’ 2000 block of west bradley place. not once did I ever think “wow this place must be heaven on earth” and until now, actually, I didn’t even realize that i had lived a block away. Hell, when I lived there I didn’t even know it was the ‘bell’ school district. what i remember most was the congestion, the overpriced homes, the snotty neighbors (who bitched about my cat roaming the neighborhood, nevermind the feral cats, only the domesticated ones). I can name half a dozen other more desirable places around chicagoland more desirable than a couple blocks of west bradley place. That area is so expensive due to supply and demand. there are only a handful of good public schools, that being one of the best, and a lack of suitable sfh housing in the area, combined with proximity to the el. but hey, that’s your job to sell the alleged lifestyle or desirability of aparticular area. someone who paid $899,999 for a house off the brown line with 1.5 bedrooms is a fool, and they know what the saying is about fools and their money..
“early last decade I rented an apartment for 2 years on damen ave less than a block and a half south of the ‘magical and desirous’ 2000 block of west bradley place”
Remember what eric said:
“Buy a house on Damen around the corner outside of Bell and it’s already a different lifestyle, you’re second tier (if you care about status and kids playing in front of the houses on your block etc…).”
And that’s a house. Who knows what tier you’re in if you renting a closet in a studio “garden” apartment?
God, I’m in the ‘fringe’ tier, a complete and utter loser. My self-esteem is in the toilet today. it doesn’t help that last night after a long discussion, and months and months of even longer discussions, my wife and I have decided to put off buying until the summer of 2014, which is the summer during which i will be required to choose what elementary school my children will attend. There are multiple reasons for this wait: cash flow, day care, pre-school or montessori, save an even larger down payment, continued decline in prices, lack of suitable homes priced reasonably, and of course, the inability to ‘pull the trigger’. have a nice day everyone, i’ll be back in 2014, or maybe before that.
by far, by a huge margin this is the funniest ON topic conversation i have ever read on Cribchatter.
this is going to be a great friday!
HD, why do you make it sound like a negative thing? you’ll be in a better position to buy and have a more clear idea what works for your family. I am holding my horses too. BTW, once the oxitocin (spelling?) goes down, we’d feel less of this nesting thing and will make rational decisions : )
Its negative because i’m a loser who can’t afford to live on one particular block of bradley place.
” I rented an apartment for 2 years on damen ave less than a block and a half south of the ‘magical and desirous’ 2000 block of west bradley place. … I didn’t even know it was the ‘bell’ school district”
It wasn’t and isn’t. You were in Audubon. [/obligatory correction]
“Its negative because i’m a loser who can’t afford to live on one particular block of bradley place.”
you could sneak into their block party and at least get a taste of the glorious awesomeness.
“you could sneak into their block party and at least get a taste of the glorious awesomeness.”
will smith did it in a movie, so did mr rippley, so why cant you?
“will smith did it in a movie, so did mr rippley, so why cant you?”
the real trick will be getting the people of means who bought this crapshack to invite you to their french villa
“the real trick will be getting the people of means who bought this crapshack to invite you to their french villa”
You’ve got it all wrong–the french villa people live on Bradley. People that live on Berteau only have a place in Union Pier or maybe Beverly Shores.
“the real trick will be getting the people of means who bought this crapshack to invite you to their french villa”
wait that is an 80’s movie with Steve Martin where he is a low level scam artist. whats the name of it?
“You’ve got it all wrong–the french villa people live on Bradley. People that live on Berteau only have a place in Union Pier or maybe Beverly Shores.”
still ON topic, and still knee slapping fun.
groove, how is crashing parties on topic?…lol
I’m not getting the hatin’ on Eric’s comments. There are some enclaves in the city that just have a different feel than the surrounding areas. I’m not familiar with that stretch of Bradley, but I live on Greenview in SoPoor; and I can tell you that a few blocks north of me it’s like a whole other world. When I head up that way (roughly halfway between IP and Montrose), it’s all SFHs, and there are kids riding bikes and playing hopscotch and whatnot on the sidewalks; people are out tending their lawns, neighbors are chatting with one another in front of their homes. It really reminds me of the small town where I grew up; only with nicer houses and more rich people (both in the sense that there are more of them and that they are “more rich”).
I looked at the Bradley house. It is beautiful. All you had to do was make the already finished attic a master with bath and you have a 4 BD 2.5 BA home with an office. Very nice indeed.
dirty rotten scoundrals… The play was very good too.
I love the… ‘can i go to the bathroom now’…. Then sits there peeing.
“dirty rotten scoundrals”
bingo!
“I love the… ‘can i go to the bathroom now’…. Then sits there peeing”
Maybe gerard depardieu was rehearsing for a remake?
“I’m not getting the hatin’ on Eric’s comments.”
Groove and DZ and I are really just teasing him a little, and HD explained why he’s annoyed, not that it was necessary, b/c his annoyance on the (broad) subject is well established.
I’ll just note that I think Eric is right, certain blocks do develop their own personalities and become highly coveted – take that 2400 block of N. Albany with the “Home Zone” remake in Logan Square.
I don’t personally quite grasp the depth of fascination or appeal that some of the folks I know on that block have for the new layout, but I definitely understand and am in awe of the sense of community they’ve built for themselves. It’s rare.
Otherwise, I’m with the groovester on this – I get along dandy with my neighbors.
“even in my ghetto hood we chill on the front porch, we have a darn lively block party, and wave and talk to the neighbors. I cut the grass for a elderly lady across the street and clean her gutters.
and i see this throughout chicago its not just “bradley ave””
“I’m not getting the hatin’ on Eric’s comments.”
“Groove and DZ and I are really just teasing him a little, and HD explained why he’s annoyed, not that it was necessary, b/c his annoyance on the (broad) subject is well established.”
Yeah, I don’t really disagree with the main point he’s making and I find his commentary valuable. Maybe the tone/articulation (“tier”, “lifestyle”, “french villa”) bugs a little, but not hate (except in the way jenny hates something about just about everything, which I don’t even hate).
“take that 2400 block of N. Albany with the “Home Zone” remake in Logan Square”
What do you mean? I haven’t been by there in a while, looks similar on streetview to what I remember. It’s nice but what particular layout are you talking about?
DZ:
This: http://albanyhomezone.org/