47% Reduction in The New York: 3660 N. Lake Shore Drive
More foreclosures are appearing in The New York, the conversion building at 3660 N. Lake Shore Drive in Lakeview.
Unit #3201 is bank-owned and is now listed about 47% below its prior sales price in 2006.
Here’s the listing:
DYNAMITE FORECLOSURE 2 BEDROOM 2 BATH W/2 BALCONIES OVERLOOKING LAKE AND DOWNTOWN. ASSESSMENTS INCLUDES HEAT/AC, GARAGE AND CABLE. PROPERTY BEING SOLD IN AS IN CONDITION
NO DISCLOSURES,NO SURVEY PROVIDED BUYER RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL INSPECTIONS BUYER IS SUBJECT TO SELLER PRE-LOANS STANDARDS, ADDENDUMS UPON ACCEP. APPLY. BUYER VERIFY RM COUNT E.M CHECK IS CASHIERS.
Unit #1313, another 2/2 unit, is also priced extremely low compared to prior sales prices in the building. I can’t tell from the listing if it’s bank-owned.
Unit #3201: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1170 square feet
- Sold in April 2006 for $375,000
- Sold in September 2006 for $500,000
- Lis pendens in March 2007
- Bank-owned in January 2008
- Currently listed for $269,900 (parking extra)
- Taxes of $5,600
- Sudler Sotheby’s has the listing
Unit #1313: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths
- I couldn’t find a prior sales price
- Currently listed for $268,900 (I can’t tell if it’s bank owned from the listing)
- Assessments of $500 a month
- Taxes of $4,356
- Re/Max 1st Class has the listing
This building looks ugly and very out of place. That being said for the right price anything is possible. These listing prices seem _reasonable_!
Reasonable in Lakeview? Wow..
I expect these to get bid up far above their opening bids by flippers still lurking.
Ahhhhhhhh, I smell CAPITULATION here.
Wow, down to the same prices a 2 bed 2 bath rehab in Rogers Park fetched in 2005, and we are not even quite upon the next and BIGGEST wave of resets- $500 BILLION worth of Alt-A paper will be resetting in the next year.
The next year will be more interesting than I thought. Properties that look like bargains even to a cheapskate like me, are languishing on the market for months on end.
But will anyone still have a job when prices finally bottom? Or a 20% downpayment for the remaining banks who will be skittish as hell?
And regarding the flippers waiting in the wings…. where oh WHERE are these losers getting their financing?
With all the BS and unknowns associated with buying a foreclosure, you damn well better be getting it at a huge discount. It would be insanity to pay anything near market value for any foreclosed property. The list prices are reasonable if someone gets the place at that price. If flipper idiots bid it up in the $300s it would be a terrible deal. Especially considering taxes and assessments.
As a side note, who builds a Chicago lakefront building and calls it “The New York”?
Dont forget the buildings famous past. Rob Lowe’s apartment building in Wayne’s World.
“who builds a Chicago lakefront building and calls it “The New York”?”
I’m not sure who built it, but Invsco converted it to condos.
Yet another nightmare brought to you by American Inv*co. They converted this place in 2000-2001 and the place has had major problems ever since.
http://www.americaninvsco.net/PR/forbesDec00.asp
There is a lot of BS and countless unkowns with buying ANYTHING right now.
We all now know that you should do the following things when you buy, especially if you buy a condo, whether it’s new, old, rehabbed, or whether it’s an ordinary sale or an REO:
First, you get a really thorough inspection of the unit and the building. I don’t mean the standard inspection here- I mean the kind you do when you are buying “as is”, where you have a really good team inspect every single component of that building and that unit.
Meanwhile, you and your legal counsel discover every foreclosure, every lien, every legal problem that place or any unit has. Any arrears of taxes or assessments, what the utility bills are, who owes how much, records of repairs and work on the place.
You can’t look too close or too long. This is not only your downpayment, but possibly every spare dime you hope to earn for the rest of your life, at stake here. You can’t be too careful about ANYTHING you buy.
when this place first went condo, i think they were throwing dance parties to market it.
The south-facing high floor views from this building are some of the best in the city, and the location is superb, so in the long run this will be a fine investment despite the short term mess that inevitably results from any American Invsco project.
In 2006 who ever paid $427.00 a square foot was our of their mind.
Boy did Inv**o pull on number on these people, they were serving up a little more than the regular kool-aid. Does anyone know if there are any class-action lawsuits against A I.
“And regarding the flippers waiting in the wings…. where oh WHERE are these losers getting their financing?”
There is still a lot of money out there… even if we seem to be in a recession. You have private money that doesn’t want to play the stock market right now, the exchange market is just a crazy, and the commodities market is all over the place as well. One thing we all know is that if you can wait out this current down turn, real estate almost always appreciates. So if you have expendable cash, why not buy and rent out the units?
This being an American Invsco clusterscrew, I suppose they stacked the building with “investors” at high prices with subsidized renters for the first few years. The inevitable result being foreclosure central as soon as the easy money dries up.
dvalsko: There is currently a class action lawsuit against American Invesco from their renters.
keep in mind there are plans underway to build in the lot next to it which will block the entire lake view. Thats a major reason why valuations are getting crushed at the building.
So I’m guessing that the “phase II” tower that was going to be built in front of the NY is on permanent hold – a very long term hiatus…
A: What is the renters lawsuit? Another questions has Invesco done anything illegal, inflating units pricing, offering owner incentives,etc. I guess the real problem was that lending institutions were not doing there due diligence on the real valuation of the property.
“the “phase II” tower”
I remember something about how the city had basically revoked the zoning approval–Invsco complained about it in some fashion, but I don’t remember seeing any resolution.
Everyone on this site has me terrified to even consider buying in an American Invesco building, but I’m wondering if any of the buildings are at least in good shape in terms of the mechanicals and structure. I don’t want to wind up like those folks in Miami who are stuck in a building that can’t afford to pay to keep the lights on in the common areas and find myself stuck with $80,000 special assessments to fix major structural issues, water infiltration, window/balcony replacement, etc. So, what’s a bargain hunter to do?
“So, what’s a bargain hunter to do?”
have patience…
Kind of unrelated question: what do you think about chances that Chicago will host Olympic games in 20016? is it going to influence RE prices?
Sartre, I’m not asking if I should buy one of these American Invesco conversions now or later. I’m asking if anyone should buy into them at all (at any time, at any price). Are any of the AI buildings better than others…decent enough that people who buy into them at very low prices, like $200/square foot in Lakeview or Streeterville, can feel confident that they got a bargain and the building will eventually turn around?
Look at unit 3201’s history. This supports my recent comment on the last post. How do you buy something in September and then have it go Lis Pendens in March? Some flipper got their ass handed to them.
Danny, I think what Sartre means is, have patience, and you can buy a place twice as nice as this for what you’d pay for this today. Personally, I would not buy into an American Invsco conversion at any price. Well, maybe not at any price, but far, far less than even what is being asking here. Yes, think Miami. Or think Detroit, with property almost being given away because it is such a guaranteed money suck. As the joke goes, the company wouldn’t even spring for an extra vowel in their name; don’t you think they were cutting corners elsewhere, too?
Gary,
I think it was the flipper’s creditor who likely lost their ass. Not until flippers are the ones doing the losing will we see this specvestor behavior stop. The flipper probably walked away with a shot FICO score and the ability to try it again in a few years.
Allowing flippers to buy “investment” property with zero down (or very little down) is sheer insanity. What does the bank expect someone to do if they put almost no money into something and then it isn’t the moneymaker the flipper thought it would be? What reason would they have to continue making payments?
The approved highrise next door (“Phase II”) is only approved at 29 stories, so high floor units at the New York won’t be impacted.
http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=3660northlakeshoredrive-chicago-il-usa
Cash flow positive means a good deal. Eventually the property will turn around but it has to be 5 year hold to be able to dump it for a profit. Renters do not care if it is an Invsco property. Neither will anyone in 10 years down the road…
Nice call stephen on the Wayne’s World. I just caught it on tv and was looking specifically for the Apt scene. strangely, though Wayne drives up to 3660 lsd, I don’t think the scene’s on the balcony were filmed there. too many other tall high rises around. my guess is it could have been filmed on the river somewhere.
I lived in this building for a few years right before it went condo and I loved it – amazing views, great location, solid building. I’ve been noticing the plummeting sales prices there and thinking it’s looking like a decent deal to buy one – here are a few things I’ve learned:
The building to the east was going to be built, but funding fell through. The project may be sold to another developer, and you can see detailed plans here:
http://www.aldermanshiller.com/images/stories/PDFs/lakefront_app_3660lakeshore_r.pdf
The new building will be 28 stories, and since the New York’s balconies all are diagonal SE or NE, only some lake views will be partially blocked. I would say anything over floor 30 is fine, most north views will be fine, and some south-east views partially blocked. Notably, the “01” units, (like 3201 above) will be hardest hit, with their balconies on the very east end of the building. – 3201 will have a direct view of the roof of the new building.
All floor plans are available here:
http://www.TheNYPR.com/doc/toc.asp?assn_id=13710&link_id=109191
All that said, I feel like these units are becoming a pretty good deal, especially if you plan to hold on to it (or live in it) for 5-10 years. Am I way off base?
Is there any way to find out what percentage of the units are renter-occupied, or conversely, owner-occupied? I’d be very curious.
Also, what is the building’s “comp value”? Is that it’s average, or composite value, which is hurt so much by foreclosures?
Sorry for the dumb questions – you all seem to actually know what you’re talking about, so I thought I’d ask…
“seem to” is the key phrase. This is a completely anyonymous board populated with quite a few housing bears:
“now is the worst time to buy, buying real estate is flushing your money down the toilet, we are returning to 1920’s era home pricing, you’ll never make any money on real estate, don’t be a knifecatcher”
and a couple of bulls:
“Now is the best time to buy. I mean now. Right now. OK, NOW is the best time to buy. Good areas will never lose value.”
and not too many people in between, although I would guess that more of the lurkers are in between and they just enjoy the lively debate between the bears and bulls. I would say do plenty of independent research and then make your decision. Don’t solely rely on anonymous internet postings for advice.
“All that said, I feel like these units are becoming a pretty good deal, especially if you plan to hold on to it (or live in it) for 5-10 years. Am I way off base?”
Without looking at it at all, if you are able to get a place for the same prices that were being paid in 2003-4, you are in good shape. That puts you close to the inflation-adjusted late-1990s prices, and 10 years should be long enough for the hangover from the crazy lending of recent years to wear off.
I am a housing bear, but I’m only calling for inflation-adjusted 1950s prices at the bottom. Of course, those are the same as inflation-adjusted 1960s, early 1970s, early 1980s, and late 1990s prices. See http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/08/26/weekinreview/27leon_graph2.large.gif
“Is there any way to find out what percentage of the units are renter-occupied, or conversely, owner-occupied? I’d be very curious.”
The only reliable method is to ask the association — they should have a clause in the rules that requires that they get copies of all leases. If the association doesn’t know how many units are rented, that is a bad sign.
“Also, what is the building’s “comp value”? Is that it’s average, or composite value, which is hurt so much by foreclosures?”
Comp is comparable value, and other properties called comps are comparables. Those are fairly similar units that sold recently and can be used to give some idea of the value of the place you are looking at. For example, if you are looking at a 1500sqft 2BR/2BA condo you would look at other 2BR/2BA condos in nearby buildings, and generally adjust the price somewhat for size. (E.g., if the neighboring building sold a 1600sqft 2BR/2BA for $320K last month, that suggests a value of $300K for the 1500sqft 2BR/2BA.)
The new Case-Schiller number for Chicago (released today) is 150.25. That is a price level last seen in Jan/Feb 2005. This hasn’t changed substantially in a couple of months, although it is down 9.5% year-over-year.
Hey Kevin – Your negative approach ignores the fact that June was up for Chicago as well as 40% of other cities. Chicago has remained flat to slightly up over the past 4 months. New York, Boston, Atlanta, Denver, Dallas, Cleveland, Minn, Detroit and all also stabalized and moved up over the past month.
Yep — Chicago was up 0.2% from May to June. We’re all saved. Nobody should ever lose money on housing again.
Its nothing more than a dead cat bounce. Go ahead and keep buying SH, just keep buying. My advice to everyone (except SH) is to wait and see what happens during the upcoming winter of capitulation.
The thing is, when you look at listings for which there was e.g. a good 2006-7 comparable, sellers are invariably asking for at least that price, and generally plus another 5 or 10 percent. That’s why nothing is selling. The established current price is not a price at which most sellers are willing to sell. And buyers are reluctant as well, given concerns it will continue to fall.
If I had lots of houses I could choose from at a 2005 price, I’d be much more seriously in the market. (I think the price should be more like 2003-4 nominal, but I’m willing to take the risk for family needs.) But it’s too much of a pain to try to figure out who is listing high but is actually willing to negotiate. So I’m sitting out for now.
You are funny Home-was-deleted. Best of luck to you in your apartment…
Sorry Steve Heitman, but you can be as condescending as you want to be toward renters, but the dumb money went to buyers in second half of the bubble. Ha ha.
Case-Schiller also finds that sales volume is down substantially year-over-year (down 38%). The last time June sales were this low (4378 paired sales) was in 1997 (4352 paired sales).
homedelete – I have been call for a fourth quarter capitulation since March. Looks like the just released Case-Shiller numbers will be the undeniable wake-up call that will drive it home.
My apartment is great. Is your mortage due for reset September 1? My rent hasn’t increased in 3 years.
You are right I should not make fun of renters. They are after all the ones who pay my mortgage, taxes, and insurance every month. 15 more years and they will have paid off my mortgages and I will have 4 paid for homes. Whether prices increase or decrease over the next 15 years, I will still have enough money to retire on.
You guys should plan to stay in apartments for 10 years or more. For all my tenants who stay 10 years or more I buy them Red Lobster gift certificates. They get gift certificates and I get paid for homes.
Which camp do you fall in?
The latest Case Shiller numbers show that Chicagoland has held steady for the four month period of 3/1-6/30. We can only speculate if the declines will return again in the winter or not. But today’s numbers are definitely good for the bulls and non-bears.
The only negative in the market today is that inflation is slowing. I need inflation to pop so incomes and rents increase. These renters need to pay pay pay so I can eat eat eat.
HD, I have question for you. Why to do talk-up the bad report/news and talk-down the good or market-stabilizing news? If the housing market does collapse it will hurt the overall economny. You guys that want hoiusing to collapse so that you can afford a house out of your price range are crazy. Go to Detriot where they economny sucks and you can buy all the house you want. Affordability is there now, why wait?
I’d hardly call a 20% drop in sales good or market stabilizing news. The truly good news is that home prices, per CS index, have returned to 2005 prices. The news could be better. 2003 prices are preferable to 2005. But there is still plenty of time.
Thanks for the responses and info. I still like this building – I think this winter might be a good time to make a move on it.
Do the penthouse units at this building have balconies?
Hey Steve, I owned a 1 BR condo in the building from 2001-2006. I personally wouldn’t recommend purchasing in the NYPR building unless you’re totally sold on high-rise living, and plan to stay put. I owned a condo in the building from 2001-2006, and was very fortunate to sell (and about break even) before the market started turning bad. It took about 6 months to sell, which actually isn’t terrible by today’s standards. However, to get that done, the unit had to be priced in the bottom 1/3 of the offerings in the building. People stopping by for showings always remarked how perfectly clean the unit was, and that it was in far better shape than other units in the building, so that was also a key. I found the single biggest obstacle in the resale to be the sheer number of units available…at the time I sold, I was told that there were more than thirty(!!!) 1 BR units in the building for sale simultaneously.
Because of my experience in selling the unit, I don’t plan on ever buying another condo in a large development. Yes, admittedly I’m biased against high-rises. I put resale value at a premium on housing purchases, and there’s just no way to get around having sooo many comps in the same building dragging your asking price down.
All that being said, the overall living experience of being in the building is decent:
Positives: quiet, very well maintained building with good sound isolation between units and floors; beatiful lobby; 4 very fast elevators; good door staff; terrific views and balconies; desirable location; most owners are professionals of some kind; building has an air of being a high-end living environment; no special assessments ever due to high reserves.
Negatives: assessments are a bit high in my opinion (although I understand this is common in high-rises) — the reserve seems a little excessive; balconies 30+ floors up are a bit impractical (too windy to use effectively), more of a gimick; building is a filing-cabinet for humans, very little interaction with neighbors; atrocious lakeview parking makes having guests from the suburbs very difficult; the air of luxury is somewhat of an illusion in my opinion…it seems like a significant number of units still have very mediocre finishes left over from 20 years ago when the building was an apartment complex (while American Invsco tiled the BA and KT floors, painted, and put new cabinet fronts on as part of most unit conversions, that alone doesn’t make a unit a luxury residence).
In sum, I just don’t think there’s a lot of value to be had purchasing a unit in the NYPR. You may also want to check out this article about the developer:
http://cribchatter.com/?p=4101
Penthouses do NOT have balconies, but they have a little extra square footage because of it. I think the 46th floor (the one just below penthouse) would be the best – no balconies above you.
and thanks for the insider info, Toonces. There’s no question that high-rise living is a matter of taste!
Does anyone know if there is CURRENTLY a class action lawsuit against American Invsco by the renters/owners????? Regarding The Ontario Place.
Angela: You’re referring to 10 E. Ontario, another American Invsco building, I’m assuming.
Can anyone help her out?
Yes, that’s the building for sure!!!! If anyone knows something, please let me know.
As an agent who has handled a number of recent sales in this building, it breaks my heart that superb units like 1601 and 1801 are being marketed and going under contract at under $275,000. I am just as guilty as any Realtor in selling 2601, 4213 and others to cash buyers who walk in with ridiculously low offers.
I should also mention that I worked for AI briefly (like everyone else) and can understand why most of their buildings tank. There is a total disregard for ethics and a zealots devotion to Nick amoung the vast majority of people who are unlucky enough to get caught up in his mentality of sales.
How they have escaped a class action suit boggles me!
Just stumbled accross this post, I actually live in unit 1313 now. Great little unit!
Whats new in this building a year plus later, prices still plummeting, we just bought in 440 wabash, cheapest 1br ever since the conversion – looking for a rental unit in this area, love the west views of the city and wrigley field, the lake view never changes – water, airplane, water, water, oh, tennis, water, water, plane. blistering sunrise in your face.
Hey J! tell me more. We are starting to look in this building for investment/rental. your thoughts as a tenant in this market? do you own or rent.
cheers,
Mike
easier comm: mikestephens@optonline.net
This building is popular with 20-something Lakeview renters. The views are phenomenal from the upper floors.
With the foreclosures and short sales in the building, however, is this now an all-cash building for buyers? Anyone know?
Hi there,
Could somebody tell me the assessments for a unit in this building? Does it matter by bedrooms/size?
It varies by floor and apartment size. I’m at $400 a month for 800 square feet on a mid floor.
This building is Awesome… The views..The Layout..Balconies..The Decor..Lightning fast elevators..The Upkeep..AND the party room on the top Floor with the sundeck is now owned by the freindly residents… You can walk to a Cubs game..nightlife..shoot a game of pool..play 9 holes of Golf or a game of Tennis…A day at the Park..Marina..Archery and Bike trail are all right across the street…The Formula Fitness center is atttaced and a quick Workout ..Swim or Jacuzzi is always convienient… Ive looked up and down the coast…This is the place to be…
“Ive looked up and down the coast…This is the place to be…”
Fred: Why not just rent there if it’s so great? I have known several people who have rented there and who loved the views.
You can rent if you want… lol
I simply prefer to own… 😉
I rented #1908 from 1996-1998 for $825 a month. $100 a month to garage the car. It was run by The Habitat Company back then and beautifully managed. They used to give the tenants an excellent Christmas party every year. Those were the days…!