A 4-Bedroom Lakeview SFH Reduces $254K: 1253 W. Wellington
This 4-bedroom single family home at 1253 W. Wellington in Lakeview has been on and off the market for 17 months.
It has been reduced $254,900 and is now listed under $1 million.
At 4100 square feet, 3 of the bedrooms are on the second floor with one in the lower level.
The house has 10 foot ceilings on the main floor.
The kitchen has stainless steel appliances and granite counter tops.
There is also a unique double sided fireplace in the kitchen and family room.
The master suite has a sun room and cathedral ceilings.
There is also a lower level recreation room.
Built on a 23×123 lot, the house has a small patio and a 2-car garage.
Is this a deal for the square footage and location?
Joanne Nemerovski at Prudential Rubloff has the listing. See more pictures here.
1253 W. Wellington: 4 bedrooms, 3.5 baths, 4100 square feet, 2 car garage
- Sold in August 1989 for $395,000
- Originally listed in October 2009 for $1,249,900
- Reduced several times
- Currently listed at $995,000
- Taxes of $18,040
- Central Air
- Double sided fireplace
- Bedroom #1: 18×16 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 18×13 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 15×10 (second floor)
- Bedroom #4: 17×14 (lower level)
- Recreation Room: 25×18 (lower level)
There is nothing wrong with this property that a wrecking ball couldn’t fix.
Good lord, that is one ugly house.
Sabrina, a near identical place one or two doors west of this house was on the market within the last 12-15 months. Any idea what happened to that place? I’m pretty sure it’s a near perfect comp. This is a lot of space in a good location, but the lack of curb appeal and the collection of odd interior features make it a tough sell in my book.
I can practically guarantee a buyer if this were in the 500k range.
@Marko – redfin says that 1239 sold for $1.32M in January, but that’s a couple doors east.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1239-W-Wellington-Ave-60657/home/28677043
looks like a new build though.
A little west, other side of Lakewood, 1323 went for $1.07M, also in January
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1323-W-Wellington-Ave-60657/home/18954115
I think Sabrina posted this property just so we could make fun of the columns on the kitchen island.
Chances anybody doesn’t think that’s hideous?
Chances that’s up to code?
“I can practically guarantee a buyer if this were in the 500k range”
Well, I can do one better – I will guarantee a buyer if it were in the 500k range. That isn’t too hard to do….
hd – there’d be a line 100 deep at $500k in that neighborhood. The duplex downs and townhouses go for almost that much.
@ alanon: You are soooooo right. Those columns are simply silly architecturally. Screams lack of scale, pointless, mcmansion idea.
my concern on the columns is, what if the idiot developer made them structural!
Haterz! those columns are oozin class. havent you ever been to caesars palace?
If you have even one column like that you really should expect it to be holding up the whole damn house. I doubt though, that the island that they are sitting on is structural…
They can’t be structural, can they?
“my concern on the columns is, what if the idiot developer made them structural!”
there probably is a structural column inside at least one of those. There isn’t another reason why you would do something that silly. But that garish white column enclosure is just there for decoration. I can’t believe anyone thought that looked good or in scale with the rest of the place. If I bought this that would be the first thing I changed.
I like that Redfin apparently deemed the photo of the columns too hideous to include in their photos. They can’t be structural anyway, so they should be easy to remove.
I don’t think that this property is terrible, and some of the floorplan and design is unique and interesting in a way that some people might appreciate. However, it does need some updating and lacks nice finishes, so I would consider it at least $100k overpriced. It might sell around $850-900k or so. It would be more if it were in the Burley attendance area, which it would be if it were about 150 feet to the west, just across Lakewood. If it were a few blocks east, on the other hand, the DMK proximity might be worth the extra $100k, though.
No way those columns are structural if that’s just cabinets underneath.
This is a great part of wellington ave., but this house is FUGLY with a super capital F!
“No way those columns are structural if that’s just cabinets underneath.”
Obviously, but the pic doesn’t tell us whether it is cabinets. Note on the right side of the island, the lower facing is different than in the middle.
Even with all the SFHs on the market are this spot, there aren’t a ton of properties in that part of Lakeview around this price range, which kind of puts this place in a hard spot. Agassiz hurts this place as well. Many of the folks willing and able spend $1 million are looking at properties around $1.1 – $1.3 million, and are expecting very nice finishes and layouts and generally newer construction or nice rehabs. This place seems closer to the “compromise” full-size single family homes in this area, which were built nicely in the 80s and 90s (like this one), but which haven’t had a ton of upgrades and offer some trade-offs, like the lower overhead clearance in the exercise room on the third floor.
To me, this feels a lot more similar to, for example, 1527 W. Nelson than it does 1239 W. Wellington. If you like quirky Victorians, 3024 N. Kenmore and 2704 N. Racine are tough comps for this property as well.
In somewhat related news, and it’s somewhat far away, but 2449 W. Byron just sold – it was priced very aggressively for a newish SFH in Bell, but a big issue scared me away back in the late winter.
Imagine how brisk the property market would be if this house were $500,000! It’s been listed since October 2009! Buyers would crawl out of the woodwork! We all know the answer to the languishing property market…..much lower prices with much steeper discounts.
Don’t forget the taxes are a grand and a half per month before even the principal or interest…
Just another boomer looking to downsize …
I actually like this house, just as back in the day this one and it’s cousins on that block were all made to look very distinct from each other.
The, the cookie-cutter-ification Lake View kicked in and every damned building looked exactly the same.
I’d guess these were well-built, as when they hit the market they really stood out – we’ll see what they go for.
Brand new, overly “typical” $1.32m house down the block than closed in Jan-11:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1239-W-Wellington-Ave-60657/home/28677043
So, is the premium for “new and normal” really in excess of $300k? Both houses claim to be 4100 sf.
A tasteless eyesore,
visually insulting
“2449 W. Byron just sold – it was priced very aggressively for a newish SFH in Bell, but a big issue scared me away back in the late winter.”
An issue that might be of general concern to all those Centrum houses, or specific to that one?
Wow, hadn’t seen this price drop on this one, can someone post the whole pricing history? I’m shocked that anyone thought this was even in the ballpark of $1.25 million.
“An issue that might be of general concern to all those Centrum houses, or specific to that one?”
Oops, nevermind. Wrong part of west of western.
But that price was heavily tied to the BP I & II pricing and availability, I think.
“An issue that might be of general concern to all those Centrum houses, or specific to that one?”
I didn’t get many details (it was kind of in a crappy area, for Bell, and we lost interest after the big claim), but it was a six figure water damage claim, which said to me that either there was something major wrong that couldn’t be quickly ascertained or (more likely) it was unoccupied when the damage or issue happened (but I think that we figured out that it seemed like it was occupied at that time) or that the owners were careless. My insurance agent couldn’t even figure out how a water claim could get that high, since, without a separate rider (which it wasn’t under) HOI won’t cover much damage to contents/personal property.
“So, is the premium for “new and normal” really in excess of $300k? Both houses claim to be 4100 sf.”
I would say the final difference in prices will be about $400k, and I would make about $100k of the difference “new and normal,” about $200k finish and build quality and the rest size and layout. 4100 sqft including a big basement and a dormered 3rd floor loft is not the same as 4100 sqft in a more usable format.
Why are people acting so god damned concerned about schools on this site? Is it guilt? I mean, come on – it is obvious that New Trier, Hinsdale Central and Naperville are better school districts than the VAST MAJORITY OF CPS – AND much much safer. In addition, housing costs are significantly cheaper (for what you get). It is a no-brainer IF schools were really your top priority, you would move to the burbs. It is quite obvious that people here who talk about schools so much must feel incredible guilt about not giving up their own selfish desire to live in the city to accommodate their kids.
“a six figure water damage claim”
Wow. iirc, the place was for rent for a time, too, so could have been occupied, but not by owners.
“BP I & II”
I’m not familiar – help a brother out?
“Wow. iirc, the place was for rent for a time, too, so could have been occupied, but not by owners.”
From memory, it was easy to figure out on the internet when the former owners moved away (and the internet info seemed to suggest they were flush with family cash and not too concerned about the loss on this place), and the claim was from before that time, or at the very least around that time. That was before it was on the market and I believe it was before I could find any history of it having been offered for rent.
“I’m not familiar – help a brother out?”
Bradley Place I and BP II, the Centrum developments west of Western in Bell.
2432 Waveland sold for 835 in Nov
2449 Grace sold for 925 in Nov (my source of confusion)
2434 Bradley on market for 985
2444 Grace on market for 999
Funny,
I grew up in the neighborhood, east of here, in the 1970s. At that time, Wellington west of Sheffield was considered working class. I had a friend who lived in a single family on the 1300 block of Wellington. It was really a backwater at the time. I’m sure his family could make big bucks on that house if they still own it.
“From memory, it was easy to figure out on the internet when the former owners moved away (and the internet info seemed to suggest they were flush with family cash and not too concerned about the loss on this place), and the claim was from before that time”
I’m regularly amazed at how many people have no idea how to turn off their water, either to everywhere in the house, or just to the overflowing fixture.
For a relatively new building I don’t see how the column(s) would be structural. Unless they put a big jacuzzi in the middle of the floor above it. Year built says 1985, is that right? If so then who knows what they did structurally and my guess is there is a post behind the hideously large column(s).
You know Clio, a lot of people don’t want to leave the city *because* of the kids, not in spite of them. I would much rather have my children grow up in a diverse and vibrant city rather than a boring vanilla suburb where everyone at your high school is wearing the same abercrombie sweatshirt.
The only suburb we would consider is Oak Park.
Pros: SFH home
Pros: SFH in Lakeview for less than $1M. Large room sizes (except for bedroom)
Cons that you can’t fix: One basement “bedroom.” TINY, no grass backyard.
Other observations: Not one drop of paint in the whole place. I mean, if you’re not going to paint, why not just rent? (This is a joke for those that don’t get it, based on prior threads)
Structural seems the most likely explanation for the columns.
Otherwise, it went something like this: “Nice kitchen . . . But it’s missing something. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but . . . Wait! I’ve got it! Let’s put some big ass white columns on this island. That will be great. It won’t match anything, it will block the view, and it will make the island virtually useless.”
The columns are so jarring that they take away the nice points of this house.
I also agree with Clio on the schools. Do middle class people even send their kids to non-magnet CPS schools anymore? Even when I was growing up, the only kids I knew who went to public school were those lucky enough to get into a magnet school.
I like the columns I would walk around this house in a toga if I lived here.
“Do middle class people even send their kids to non-magnet CPS schools anymore?”
Um, yes? Unless you consider the neighborhood programs at Ogden, Lincoln, Alcott, Nettlehorst, Blaine, Burley, Bell, etc, etc to be the equivalent of “magnet” programs. I know of hundreds of kids of middle class to (objectively) wealthy families who go to these schools b/c they live within the attendance boundaries, not b/c they got in by lottery, test or parental guile.
High school remains a different story. Can’t say I know (or of) kids who are in CPS not “at least” in LPHS double honors (which would include the various IB, and all the selective enrollment schools).
“Do middle class people even send their kids to non-magnet CPS schools anymore? ”
Kindof a dumb question. Because basically everyone except the idle rich and poorest of the poor consider themselves middle class.
Is there an olive tree in the back yard?
“A tremendous amount of home for the money”, as featured in YoChicago.
Watch the video.
http://youtu.be/aZooh4704Ew
I think the school obsession is odd too. But maybe for different reasons. I grew up in a part of the country where all the public schools were terrible. Very near the bottom of the national rankings. But there were no choices. You couldn’t just move to a different neighborhood and get a better school. But you know, good kids with good, caring parents turned out just fine. Why? Who knows. Because even at a bad school a kid can learn? Probably. Because it’s about the parents more than the school? Probably. Other reasons? Probably.
In any event, I suspect parents in the city make this too big of an issue. Not having kids of my own, I really have no idea why (maybe I would feel the same way). But I wonder if it’s a social status thing. I feel like some of friends feel a pressure to play this game even if they don’t think it’s necessary. I they feel people consider it almost child abuse to not do everything you can to put your kid into the “best” possible school.
A lot of parents become obsessed with rankings and test scores.
To comment on Clio’s post, schools are obviously a factor but it doesn’t trump everything. It’s a balancing act of urban living, affordability, school quality, culture and amenities, etc.
“The columns add a little bit of whimsy to brighten up the room.” From the video.
When 1317 Nelson sold for 1.3 in December, that’s when all the neighbors jaws were dropping, but I’m pretty sure that’s in Burley.
CPS is objectively terrible. There’s a handful of decent schools and yes some parents go a little crazy. But there’s just no comparison of a typical CPS schools to suburban elementary schools. Some of these CPS schools are 20% ESL, 75% low income, 25% mobility rates, 75% of the school gets reduced or free lunch, the parents are absent, they’re not the run of the mill average typical suburban elementary school you would come to expect.
Not all suburban schools are great. The better ones are in more expensive areas, just like they are in Chicago. Some people prefer culture over space.
As for whether it’s child abuse to try and get your child into a school that is not having it’s 4th graders sign a pledge to say they won’t bring guns to school…
I went through a very, very good suburban public school system and was bored to death and did not do very well until I went to (a much lower rated) private school.
School ratings really don’t matter in the grand scheme of a child’s success! School ratings are mainly something for lame parents with nothing more to brag about in their boring lives. I see so many parents that do nothing other than try to live vicariously through their children’s success. School rankings are just one more thing to use to “one up” your neighbors just as NCAA top 25 polls are used as bragging rights to boast about the superiority of your sports team and college degree.
if you are interested in what kind of people send their kids to a Chicago Public School:
http://cpsobsessed.com/2011/04/09/why-do-we-stay-in-the-city/
Hard fact of life: if you define educational “success” for their child as getting into a good college, where they went to elementary, middle, and high school for the last 12 years matters less than how well they peform for four hours one October morning. stayed in the city, your kid went to a shitty CPS school, but they rocked SAT? They’ll be just fine. Better than the kid that went to New Trier and got an average score. Maybe the plan is to buy a place that’s cheaper because it’s not in the best school district, save the difference so your kid can graduate college without a mountatin, then spend a few thousand on a Kaplan course?
“stayed in the city, your kid went to a shitty CPS school, but they rocked SAT? They’ll be just fine. Better than the kid that went to New Trier and got an average score. ”
Not to get into this again, but for similarly-situated sat/gpa kids, the CPS kids are more likely to get into better schools. In general, a kid who graduates from Wells and gets a 1500+ is going to get better offer than the same kids from NT. Of course, it’s counterfactual to assume the Wells kid will apply to as many of or the same colleges
Yeah because everyone’s kids score 1500+ AND there are just tons of CPS kids who want to goto Ivy league. LOL. No in CPS their friends will let them know most Ivy kids are tools and your kids will have ideas of their own regarding what they want to do with their life.
I love it how here on CC it’s a foregone conclusion that everyone’s kid is a child prodigy and will score 1500+ on the SAT, even with a CPS education. If there’s one thing doting parents will overestimate it’s their kid’s overall achievement potential and it’s hilarious to watch on here.
“I love it how here on CC it’s a foregone conclusion that everyone’s kid is a child prodigy”
Good to see that you haven’t lost the touch on constructing strawmen. Was that your minor in college?
It was an example, not a “conclusion”.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1539-W-George-St-60657/home/13363845
1500+ square feet larger, significantly better school, 3 blocks away. Normal looking house.
Sold 80k cheaper than list.
Need we say more?
Bob, to the extent you are disagreeing with me I think you’re missing point. Point is not that any kid, CPS or not, is likely to get a 1500. That is empirically not true. Point is that SAT is more important than elementary/middle/high school. Kid that went to New Trier and got a 1000 has the same chance of getting into –insert prestige school here — as the CPS kid that got a 1000. That chance is zero. On the flip side, the CPS kid that gets a 1500 is just as likely (or, perhaps, even more likely) to get into –insert prestige school here–. So, my slightly tounge in cheek recommendation was for parents to stay in the city and live it up, then pay for some Kaplan classes.
“If there’s one thing doting parents will overestimate it’s their kid’s overall achievement potential”
I once told that to the Zuckerbergs 🙂
Holy 80’s Batman!
On the CPS point, I think people would be very surprised with how many children from these neighborhoods go to catholic, other religious affiliated or private. My impression is less than 1/2 of the kids from the nice neighborhood SFHs go to public in Blaine, Burley, etc.
Layouts with these houses are key, almost more than the finishes. Case in point, not far but in a better school district: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1444-W-George-St-60657/home/13364655
Split bedrooms, awkward entrances, unfinished basements — people just don’t want those. Has little to do with relative value.
Here is the differences in schools from an inside source…
New Trier Middle School staff meeting (3 months prior)
“How can we come up with a way to get Johnny to stop studying so much.”
Evanston Middle School staff meeting (today)
“How can we get Richie to leave the gang and come to school.”
True story.
Better schools have issues, but the issues are around the stress of academic performance more than safety and truancy.
Evanston schools have always failed after elementary, and even then you are only talking about Willard and Orrington (recently). ETHS is not for the faint of heart. Metal detectors were in there in the 80’s IIRC.
Alanon, it’s not just about rocking the SAT, it’s about being prepared to actually make it through college. Less than 6% of CPS grads obtain a bachelor’s degree in less than 6 years. Yes that number is correct. Less than 6%. Many drop out because they cannot or do not keep up with the college level courses and are unprepared, or enter college taking remedial courses. To me this seems so obvious about CPS. Sure there are ‘bad’ suburban schools districts like Maywood or what not but seriously your run of the mill schaumburg school is better than your run of the mill CPS school in some neighborhood.
Even the public elementary CPS in my area is some 70% low income and 50% of the school gets free lunch. The middle class and upper middle class go to the local Catholic schools. the mobility rate of Belding is 25% or something like that, meaning lots of renters who move in and out of the district often. The mobility rate for edgebrook elementary is 4% meaning that most students who start there also finish there. My child is going to have substnailly differnet concerns and a completely different home life than the 7/10 kids in his class who come to school hungry and get a free lunch.
“Less than 6% of CPS grads obtain a bachelor’s degree in less than 6 years.”
This does not surprise me. But it doesn’t solve the riddle. Who are those 6%? Are they the ones with attentive parents? Are they the ones with parents that went to college and expect their children to do the same? If so, does that mean that such parents can send their kids to CPS and end up fine?
” In general, a kid who graduates from Wells and gets a 1500+ is going to get better offer than the same kids from NT.”
However, your kid has a much higher chance of getting a 1500 SAT if they go to New Trier – wtf is so hard to understand about that? compare test scores. Good Lord, it’s not that hard – and you morons expect your kids to be smart?
“Even the public elementary CPS in my area is some 70% low income and 50% of the school gets free lunch.”
I’ve never understood why people accept this data as a proxy for either: (a) bad school, or (b) school with kids I don’t want my kids to be around. I grew up poor. If my school district would have been able to afford free lunches I’m pretty sure I would have qualified. I ran circles around my wealthier classmates.
“My child is going to have substnailly differnet concerns and a completely different home life than the 7/10 kids in his class who come to school hungry and get a free lunch.”
I know a lot of people on this board hate this notion, but this seems like a good reason to send your kids to public school. If I had kids right now I could afford to send them any private school in the city. But I wouldn’t do it. I wouldn’t want them to grow up looking down on the kids that are growing up the way I grew up.
“However, your kid has a much higher chance of getting a 1500 SAT if they go to New Trier – wtf is so hard to understand about that? compare test scores. Good Lord, it’s not that hard – and you morons expect your kids to be smart?”
Overly simplistic view of cause and effect.
Aside from the school, the place on George isn’t in as nice a location. Far from the train. Too near Ashland. Not as nice a block.
Someone could cork the columns and use them for stuff that usually ends up on the fridge? That little tudor architectural-feature/thing on the front is funny looking.
HD sounds like he’s trying to talk himself into just buying a house in Park Ridge.
“Sure there are ‘bad’ suburban schools districts like Maywood or what not but seriously your run of the mill schaumburg school is better than your run of the mill CPS school in some neighborhood.”
I’m *exactly* as likely to move to Maywood as I am to move to Schaumburg. Which is *exactly* the probability of moving to Englewood. So all of those are immaterial.
But, if one is going to live in the difference b/t School X and School Y matters, just as for someone looking at the west ‘burbs the difference b/t OPRF and Maywood matters, and not *just* in the cost of housing bt the two.
“Less than 6% of CPS grads obtain a bachelor’s degree in less than 6 years.”
This is why that all-boys charter school on the south side that has 100% college acceptance rate also provides at least a year worth of tutoring and counseling once they GET to those colleges to make sure they can adjust and don’t get overwhelmed by the level of competition. We won’t know for a couple more years how successful that help was in getting them to graduate college though.
“Evanston schools have always failed after elementary, and even then you are only talking about Willard and Orrington (recently). ETHS is not for the faint of heart. Metal detectors were in there in the 80’s IIRC.”
As I recall, metal detectors were brought in in the late 1990s at ETHS. ETHS is great for really bright kids (excellent programs) and students who need lots of academic support. The middle of the road students are the ones who need more attention, but are often overlooked.
“and don’t get overwhelmed by the level of competition”
What competition, LOL? I’ve never understood how some people can’t finish college. Most people I knew figured out a way to graduate, despite 4 years of serious partying and just screwing around mostly.
Dan- you clearly went to college a long time ago. It’s much more competitive now.
I have a friend who grew up in New Hampshire with a graduating class of about 100 students. He was at the top of the class there and ended up going to Indiana U where he was subsequently blown out by all the students who came from much better high schools where there were AP classes up the wazoo and a higher level of competition. He didn’t drop out- but his grades suffered for the first year until he figured out how to compete. He thought he was hot stuff until he got to campus.
For the students coming from a south side high school, the competition level would be rather shocking even if you have the test scores to get into that college. That’s why they have the extra tutoring etc. to make sure they can adjust.
“ended up going to Indiana U where he was subsequently blown out by all the students”
But if that’s true, then it shatters CC’s liberals’ and “antis'” long-held stereotype that Big Ten grads and suburban and out-of-state transplants to GZ hoods are totally clueless.
“This is why that all-boys charter school on the south side that has 100% college acceptance rate also provides at least a year worth of tutoring and counseling once they GET to those colleges to make sure they can adjust and don’t get overwhelmed by the level of competition. We won’t know for a couple more years how successful that help was in getting them to graduate college though.”
This is what’s funny, Sabrina: this reminds me of that 1960’s Beatles song “I want to hold your haaaaaand”.
College used to denote a rite of passage and by graduating connoted an increased level of maturity, responsibility and insight. By spoon feeding certain people college (and paying for it for them) instead of elevating them up it instead denigrates what the degree used to stand for.
It wasn’t actually the framed sheepskin that made college graduates more desirable to employers. It was their general expectation that they were getting a grown responsible adult who met these mature criterion. Spoon feed the unwashed masses with the sheepskin and it loses it’s value.
Big wonder college grads today are having a tough go of it: it no longer signals to employers what it once did.
I’d be skeptical of any school that strives for a 100% college acceptance rate then celebrates it: it shows the school isn’t very flexible to different personalities of it’s pupils and has a “one size fits all” mentality to them.
“However, your kid has a much higher chance of getting a 1500 SAT if they go to New Trier – wtf is so hard to understand about that? compare test scores. Good Lord, it’s not that hard – and you morons expect your kids to be smart?”
For once I agree with clio. And it his less to do with anything “magical” going on at NT in terms of the teaching and a lot more to do with peers and peer pressure.
When your kids are in HS if they are surrounded by a peer population that is “geeks”, they are much more likely to behave in such a manner.
In CPS they’ll be smoking pot by freshmen year and hanging out with urban “non-geeks”. They’ll also learn to hate “the system” earlier when they go through metal detectors every day and disruptions will not be uncommon. Which means rave parties and all kinds of other uncontrollable behavior.
Clio these other folks you rightly criticize, mostly parents of young children, are simplistic in that they think their influence on their offspring will continue unabated up until at least college age. Sorry folks it doesn’t work like that.
That’s why I have to laugh my arse off at any parent in CPS thinking their kid is going to graduate CPS HS and go on to Stanford. Hahaha yeah right. It’s possible but you aren’t that 0.1% you think you are is my guess.
“Better schools have issues, but the issues are around the stress of academic performance more than safety and truancy.”
Take an average kid with non-overbearing parents who just wants the best for their kids and are good at tempering expectations and I’d bet they’re much better off at a New Trier vs. CPS.
However the problem is most humans fall into the “keeping up with the Joneses” or benchmarking themselves to others (its an all too simian/MONKEY/APELIKE quality) and too many of those NT parents likely think their kid has to keep up with other NT kids for them to maintain status.
Your kids aren’t a status symbol. If you want to minimize the possibility of them being messed up or rebelling later in life you’d be best to want whats best for them irrespective of any perceived community opinion. I was lucky and had parents that thought similarly but I was very independent and if it came down to it there would’ve been conflict.
If my parents tried to be overbearing and make me do things (ie: extracurricular or going to a college) I didn’t want to do I would’ve not done them until I was old enough to fight back and then it would’ve been physical conflict time with repercussions.
I remember being 14 and my pops trying to sell me on Notre Dame with a visit to see a football game there. I was completely nonplussed and didn’t see a good fit. When he saw the tuition comparison later he wasn’t in disagreement 😀 But he knew not to push the issue or there would be conflict (especially after Bob stole some of ma’s booze and wasn’t in a great mood).
” If you want to minimize the possibility of them being messed up or rebelling later in life you’d be best to want whats best for them irrespective of any perceived community opinion”
You mean you think we should ignore what others think? Isnt that circular?
“I’m regularly amazed at how many people have no idea how to turn off their water, either to everywhere in the house, or just to the overflowing fixture.”
I know a guy who lived in a condo, where the unit above him was a rental, and had some very questionable tenants. The bathroom flooded not once, but twice, and the tenants actually tried to blame the landlord, saying the bathtub was “defective” because it somehow didn’t catch the overflow from a full-cranked ON flow from the faucet.
That’s when he decided to buy a SFH.
Alas, having lots of friends who went to Lincoln Park HS, there is much truth to the below re: school atmosphere and peer pressure – the really successful kids there (IB) were essentially quarantined from the other kids.
My mom gave me the option of going to the IB program, or Ignatius. I tried to argue that many smart kids did the math-science track, and her response was “you’ll just end up skipping class & smoking pot on that hill like all the other kids.”
which was true for a lot of kids. I ended up going the Ignatius route as much due to peer pressure in my hood as anything else – everyone I talked to said IB kids were dorks, and I didn’t need any more assistance in that category already being a flaming Dungeons % Dragons and comic book addict.
that said, plenty of kids who were utter burnouts during high school are now extremely successful, here in Chicago and elsewhere – perhaps that argument is, if you’re going to be a burnout, get it out of the way while you still have time to get disciplined, get skills & to turn your life around.
“For once I agree with clio. And it his less to do with anything “magical” going on at NT in terms of the teaching and a lot more to do with peers and peer pressure.
When your kids are in HS if they are surrounded by a peer population that is “geeks”, they are much more likely to behave in such a manner.
In CPS they’ll be smoking pot by freshmen year and hanging out with urban “non-geeks”. They’ll also learn to hate “the system” earlier when they go through metal detectors every day and disruptions will not be uncommon. Which means rave parties and all kinds of other uncontrollable behavior.
Clio these other folks you rightly criticize, mostly parents of young children, are simplistic in that they think their influence on their offspring will continue unabated up until at least college age. Sorry folks it doesn’t work like that.”
If you want your kids successful you want to send them to a school surrounded by kids with successful parents. No matter how bad they are as a kid, no matter how rebellious they get, they grow up for some reason knowing they want these things and when the time comes they will get it done.
“plenty of kids who were utter burnouts during high school are now extremely successful, here in Chicago and elsewhere”
You have no idea how high we all still get when we all get back together… 🙂
Smoking dope does not make you a burnout but burnout by definition must smoke dope. That being said, the burnouts generally made a number of bad decisions early on in life that caused them to not be successful aka single mothers, not going to college, criminal records, getting married at 19, dropping out of school, etc. The dope smokers were everywhere, i had a roommate that would high and pull all nighters writing papers. He got Straight A’s in every class and he was high pretty much all the time. But he wasn’t a burnout if you know what I mean.
““plenty of kids who were utter burnouts during high school are now extremely successful, here in Chicago and elsewhere”
You have no idea how high we all still get when we all get back together… :-)”
HD.. you win on semantics.. I must be more careful around all you attorneys. 🙂
gz:
“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.”
“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master – that’s all.”
Through the Looking Glass.
“perhaps that argument is, if you’re going to be a burnout, get it out of the way while you still have time to get disciplined, get skills & to turn your life around.”
I think this is right. Pretty much my life path. I partied a lot in college, but it wasn’t anything I hadn’t been doing since 8th grade so it didn’t really slow me down in school. In contrast, there is the stereotypical: get to college, never really done anything bad before, suddenly no adult supervision so now I’m going to drink my face off and flunk out. Or the stereotypical, I started drinking my face off in college and I’m just hitting my stride, so now I’m 25 years old and still drinking my face off. By the time I was 22 I had all that shit out of my system. I got a job, I worked my ass off, and left the drunk frat boys behind.
If I had kids now I don’t know what I would do. Getting high and skipping geometry . . . I understand the impulse, but man I don’t know if I could deal with that as a parent.
for the new comers to CC:
i will tell the story (quickly) again of a good friend who was the valedictorian of his/her graduating CPS class, then went on to a state school and couldnt keep up at all. all the tutoring and TA help could get him/her to catch up and eventually failed/dropped out.
now take what you will from that true story, and i know the it is not indicative of all CPS and all valedictorians in CPS, and could just be the the flaws of the individual in the story.
all said just, think of this as a house/condo. a quality foundation in place if things get bad, all that really needs updating are the paint and finishes.
Unfortunately I won’t be having children. I made that decision a long time ago. I want to live in the city either in NY or Chicago, not in the burbs, and I feel that unless you are super rich or super poor (so you can take advantage of tax breaks, benefits, food stamps, public housing, etc.), it’s just too hard to get by. We are pretty careful with money, but it’s still so hard to save. I am thankful that we have health insurance through work. If you pay out of pocket in NY, it’s about $1,000/month for a decent plan just for one person.
I look at my co-workers who have kids and most have made major quality of life compromises. They are always tired. They never see their kids. They get fat because they have no time for exercise or anything personal. They eat take-out every day. Their kids bond better with their nannies. The nannies are more interested in meeting their other nanny friends at the playground and ignore the children. Most public schools in NY are terrible, even in the good neighborhoods. We don’t make enough to pay for private school.
Also, if I had kids, I would want to stay at home at least until they are in school. I would want them to go to Montessori like I did. But the Montessori school in Cobble Hill, Brooklyn ranges from 26 – 30K/year.
Having kids would put me in the poorhouse, and I wouldn’t have the money for all the activities, ballet classes, piano lessons and travel that my parents were able to provide for me in the 70s and 80s. The cost of everything has gone completely out of control.
CC allows newcomers? and here I thought this was an elite club!
Also, can I tell you how much I have fallen in love with Aldi? They just opened one in Queens and your dollar goes really far there. Is it just me, or is there a little stigma associated with shopping at Aldi in Chicago?
“Is it just me, or is there a little stigma associated with shopping at Aldi in Chicago?”
huge stigma, reason why the were “regulated” to the poorer communities. Adli branched out and have been popping up more spots in Chicagoland and are accepted buy more people now.
also Milky, your view of having kids is out of whack. dont take your co-workers lives and extrapolate it across the board.
I know my life with kids is way diff from your coworkers.
“CC allows newcomers? and here I thought this was an elite club!”
dooode please tell me it was sarcasm? please, as some “members” here are far from elite!
@Milkster
If I had this outlook, I would never want to have children either. This is a very negative view and does not align itself with reality.
“I look at my co-workers who have kids and most have made major quality of life compromises. They are always tired. They never see their kids. They get fat because they have no time for exercise or anything personal. They eat take-out every day. Their kids bond better with their nannies. The nannies are more interested in meeting their other nanny friends at the playground and ignore the children. Most public schools in NY are terrible, even in the good neighborhoods. We don’t make enough to pay for private school.”
Part of the allure of the off brand grocery stores are the non-union wages that drive up the cost of food. It’s great that Jewel has a union wage where lifetime cashiers can afford to live in the city, buy cars and not struggle; but on the other hand, machintosh apples from Michigan should not cost $1.29 a pound and kraft shells and cheese should not cost $2.99 compared to Target’s $1.72. Now that the large grocery stores are hurting their reducing employees to part-time hours with no overtime which sort of negates the effect of teh living wage. You know I don’t like the race to the bottom with wages, but, retail is a cut throat price conscious business.
“#Milkster on April 14th, 2011 at 9:06 am
Also, can I tell you how much I have fallen in love with Aldi? They just opened one in Queens and your dollar goes really far there. Is it just me, or is there a little stigma associated with shopping at Aldi in Chicago?”
NT isn’t all geeks. It does have winning sports teams, it’s a large school yes, but I think it may have more state championships across the board than any other HS. They routinely beat and could destroy any CPS school in athletics. (Cue the comment that the CPS kids don’t have enough “resources” or good coaches etc, blah blah blah…..)
“When your kids are in HS if they are surrounded by a peer population that is “geeks”, they are much more likely to behave in such a manner.”
I also get a lttle offended at the idea that just because a kid qualifies for a free meal that means s/he is a “bad” student or has a “bad” family life. Plenty of well-fed affluent kids can be less-than-ideal schoolmates for your offspring too.
BTW someone mentioned “rave” parties as characteristic of the “bad” kids. I was under the impression that most “ravers” were middle-class kids who just happened to be “into” weird music and exotic drugs and saw these as an emblem of typic teenage rebellion, sort of like the various “-ins” that their elders attended.
oh Milky,
one of the biggest misreads of people, and i hear this a lot is “i dont have enough money to have a kid (or another kid)”
but thea phrase can be applied to anything, just take out the word kid and replace it with whatever you like, be it vacation, lambo, a duplex down in sw-ELP, a new tv above the fire place.
I dont know milky i make WAY less than most “claim” on CribChatter yet my wife is able to be a homemaker, we are able to have three cars, a house, a kid, planning on a second one, vacations, savings, college savings, ect.
dont get me wrong there are months we take a “cool it” approach to spending but its really for the extras.
the kid(s) has not cramped our quality of life or or cash flow, actually it has done the opposite for both!
I was under the assumption the rave party kinds were just products of too much playing of pac-man and mrs pac-man?
you know the wandering around dark rooms listening to repetitive music and munching on pills?
“BTW someone mentioned “rave” parties as characteristic of the “bad” kids. I was under the impression that most “ravers” were middle-class kids who just happened to be “into” weird music and exotic drugs and saw these as an emblem of typic teenage rebellion”
Hi Groovy –
I didn’t mean to extrapolate across the board at all. I’m just sharing my experience of it, living in NY full time. It’s a struggle most of my female peers of the same age, income and education level can relate to. I’m not exaggerating or anything. I assume things would be slightly less extreme in Chicago but I see other CCers wrestling with the same issues of schooling and how to pay for things.
I’m reading a book right now which Sabrina has recommended a couple of times: “The Millionaire Next Door”. It’s great! It advocates living under your means, saving and investing and separating “wants” from “needs”. Although I’m sure most CCers already have this stuff down 😉
…Planning and budgeting too. Both VERY important!
Hi Milkster, more power to you on your decision. I don’t know why people who have kids think they are superior to ones without and constantly want to persuade others to have them. Actually married people are guilty of the same attitude. Kids are definitely expensive, very high maintenance and all. I applaud you for one for not having a sheep mentality and deciding on your own what works best for you.
ha ha – gotcha, Groovester!
on Aldi, the ones I remember just always seemed really crummy, disorganized & not worth the savings. But that was when we had Cub Foods as an option.
I have a new Aldi’s by me on Belmont and Kimball and it seems nice enough, if a bit small in terms of floor space. They just don’t have enough of that high-falootin organic/natural stuff I prefer, if you look at their name brands the unifying theme seems to be heart-stopping amounts of sodium and preservatives.
But to each their own. And I’d definitely give that Aldi a huge endorsement over the utterly ghetto Dominick’s that used to be there, but I go to Jewel and the Dill Pickle Co-op for just about everything.
““Is it just me, or is there a little stigma associated with shopping at Aldi in Chicago?””
I’ve found 99% of people I know who have small children couldn’t be happier and can’t wait to get home. I found about 5% of those with kids over 16 talk about their children in anything other than muttering under their breath…
“but I see other CCers wrestling with the same issues of schooling and how to pay for things”
its all about priorities, do i need to live in Lincoln park to enjoy life and raise a family? no! do i need to work a career that i log 60 hours a week? no!
its all priorities and planning. the just need to take out this “entitlement” view most people have developed and life gets simple and way cheaper.
now schooling is a thing that takes a bit “extra” and you hear me go on and on about it.
but in all honesty school is really not a issue until High School. In which i already have two back up plans for it and that’s like 10 years away.
Milky its really not all that bad, yes the first year sleep was a bit rough, but when looked at it as a whole, its just a drop in a bucket of all the awesomeness.
Hi miumiu –
Thank you, and I hope you find an in-town in Chicago soon! I know from your posts that you are expecting a baby and I am happy for you 🙂 I live with my boyfriend. We are committed to each other, but we don’t have plans to get married anytime soon.
Lately several of my female co-workers have been getting pregnant. One of them caught an extreme case of condescension along with her pregnancy. I know she has some credit card debt problems because she argues on her cell phone about it while making photocopies.
She got knocked up by her on-again-off-again boyfriend who has an aversion to full-time employment. All of a sudden she was saying stuff to me every day like “Awwww…I’m sure it will happen for you soon too.” I didn’t say it. But I was thinking “What? What exactly is going to happen to me? I’ll get knocked up by some loser and have to move to the South Bronx to make ends meet? Not likely!”
Groovy –
Another problem most of my female friends run into is that it’s hard to find a guy like you who will make those compromises and give up all the image crap. It’s hard to find a guy like you who sees the benefit of his wife staying at home to raise the kids and will agree to be the sole breadwinner. It’s hard to find a guy who will compromise by living a little further out. A lot of the guys around hypothetically see themselves having kids. However they also still see themselves living in Manhattan and hitting the bars 5 nights a week.
Groovy, your wife is a very lucky lady!
My view of living in New York has always been that you generally have to REALLY like it, or only be able to work in your preferred industry and make your existing salary there, for it to be worth the tradeoffs in quality of living.
My view on the schools issue generally is this: kids are going to learn and do well in academics primarily because of their overall environments and the time parents spend with them. Way too many people think that you just ignore your kids’ intellectual development until you dump them into a “good” school with mostly middle-class white kids and then your job as a parent is done. This is absurd – most of what my kids know and can do results from the time I have spend with them reading, talking about things, teaching them math, etc. Performance of kids in the “good” schools is much more likely to have a correlative relationship with the quality of the school than it is a causative relationship. I also agree that many parents treat school quality as a status thing, and they should be much more concerned about the quality of the time they’re spending with their kids than than they are the quality of the school. We have a family friend who is very concerned about the ratings of the (suburban) school her kid is in, but doesn’t seem really concerned about his performance, the strength of his reading, writing, math or speaking skills or his grades (which aren’t that great, for which she blames his teacher). This attitude is far too common.
From a real estate perspective, I think that there are 5 – 10 attendance areas that have a 10% or so premium on the surrounding areas arising out of the attendance area school quality.
Milkster is right and I pretty much feel the same way re: raising kids here
“Another problem most of my female friends run into is that it’s hard to find a guy like you who will make those compromises and give up all the image crap.”
hey dont get the groovy wrong, we still need to be as a family rocking nice thredz. you will not catch anyone in the groovy house wearing cheap quality shoes or old shoes 🙂
“It’s hard to find a guy like you who sees the benefit of his wife staying at home to raise the kids and will agree to be the sole breadwinner.”
really i was under the impression that that is most guys dream 🙂 on the flip side its hard to find a guy willing to stay home and the wife be the bread winner.
“It’s hard to find a guy who will compromise by living a little further out.”
they are not looking in the right places, some women (and men) shoot too high or dont open up all opportunities. if you work with blinders you miss out on so much.
“However they also still see themselves living in Manhattan and hitting the bars 5 nights a week”
but really all that you said it seems to me like its the lady who has here standards and priorities not matching her future wants.
Not everyone needs to reproduce and have a big yard. just partner up with a person who “truly” shares that view and all will be fine.
i know i partnered up with my soulmate, and that makes everything else so much easier.
“But really all that you said it seems to me like its the lady who has here standards and priorities not matching her future wants.”
Ahhh – I knew that South Bronx comment would come back to bite me! Groovy, my view of the South Bronx is akin to most CCers view of Englewood. It’s just gross. That’s not to say that I want to live in a fancy part of Manhattan though!
I’m not spendy at all. Actually, I bought in an un-hip part of Brooklyn 14 years ago when everyone was like WTF are you doing? I clip coupons. I shop at Old Navy and Forever 21. I cook breakfast and dinner at home at least 6 days a week. My boyfriend rolls his eyes when I make him conserve water or electricity or when I make him walk to his bank’s ATM instead of paying fees to withdraw elsewhere. But I would rather we don’t spend money unneccessarily. All the little things add up.
I don’t agree at all. This is the way a culture/nation dies out, if people don’t reproduce, or care to see why it’s important. Look at the low birth rates for people in developed countries, it’s sad. What we then get is a dygenic society where the less educated and less smart outproduce the more capable, and society worsens and the more intelligent are displaced and replaced. There’s a Mike Judge comedy about it called Idiocracy starring Owen Wilson.
“Hi Milkster, more power to you on your decision. I don’t know why people who “have kids think they are superior to ones without and constantly want to persuade others to have them. Actually married people are guilty of the same attitude. Kids are definitely expensive, very high maintenance and all. I applaud you for one for not having a sheep mentality and deciding on your own what works best for you.”
shoot, take out the word “good” before school and you’re also describing way too many lower-middle, lower, and dirt-poor parents.
somewhere along the line the concept of “it takes a village to raise a child” became shorthand for “it’s the village’s job to raise my child, not mine.”
groove – so with you on the shoes. a MD friend of mine once broke the meaning of life down to a simple sentence – if you are going to spend good money on anything, do it on shoes and a mattress, as you are going to spend 2/3 of your life on your feet/asleep.
“Way too many people think that you just ignore your kids’ intellectual development until you dump them into a “good” school with mostly middle-class white kids and then your job as a parent is done. “
I think important thing is figuring out what works for you and your SO. It is great if both of you have the same idea of happiness. As for your coworker, I am sorry for her because I bet she is on her way to a very stressful situation. We have stable jobs, family support, have been together for 8 years, pretty good financial standing and still I think having a kid is a huge responsibility. Especially that we are clueless on US K-12 education. Actually I am so impressed with how much everyone on CC knows and feel sorry for our kid…lol
I know quite a few very happy couples (and they are not young) who never had kids, are very much in love, travel the world and are tons of fun to hang with. As I know many people with kids who are quite miserable and unhappy. So I don’t buy having kids is the only way to be happy at all. Of course there are many people who think having kids was the best thing they ever did which I think is wonderful for them!
BTW, I love NYC. It is my favorite city in US. As for my in town situation, we are a bit afraid to buy now giving the market condition, but I think we will eventually : )
skeptic and groove, could not agree more on shoes and good bedding.
That is why if I ever have to change husband, I will make sure to pick one that does not snore ; )
“groove – so with you on the shoes. a MD friend of mine once broke the meaning of life down to a simple sentence – if you are going to spend good money on anything, do it on shoes and a mattress, as you are going to spend 2/3 of your life on your feet/asleep.”
Methinks groove’s spending is more on stylish. I know a couple who swear by their Dux bed.
“I know quite a few very happy couples (and they are not young) who never had kids, are very much in love, travel the world and are tons of fun to hang with.”
Yeah, and whoop-de-doo. When they’re gone who will care? Who will even remember these people or their (insignificant) “travels” and egotism. The end result is their DNA/ancestral lineage passed down to them over thousands of years, just flat out ends. End of story.
Dan, we seem to disagree on everything so I am not surprised we disagree on meaning of life too. I could not care less about what happens to my DNA. I don’t find it to be anything special or better than anyone else’s. QED
“Yeah, and whoop-de-doo. When they’re gone who will care? Who will even remember these people or their (insignificant) “travels” and egotism. The end result is their DNA/ancestral lineage passed down to them over thousands of years, just flat out ends. End of story.”
Isn’t having a child because you’re worried about who will remember you based in “egotism”? Isn’t worrying about passing on your “ancestral lineage” based in egotism?
Don’t judge people that decide not to have kids. It’s a very personal decision that’s not really any of your business.
“Plenty of well-fed affluent kids can be less-than-ideal schoolmates for your offspring too.”
It’s the exception not the rule. Yeah Hollywood loves John Hughes movies and others like Cruel Intentions that portray rich kids as problematic but generally rich kids aren’t nearly as problematic as poor kids. Rich kid’s parents tend to give a sh_t more, probably because they’re overall more competitive and type-A (it tends to go along with having lots of money).
“BTW someone mentioned “rave” parties as characteristic of the “bad” kids. I was under the impression that most “ravers” were middle-class kids who just happened to be “into” weird music and exotic drugs and saw these as an emblem of typic teenage rebellion, sort of like the various “-ins” that their elders attended.”
Nothing wrong with them per se. Especially if you like that kind of music. I’m much older and get invited to them all the time (Facebook is a funny thing). Sometimes I go and I like the music. But there always a bunch of 16+ year olds doing a bunch of drugs there. Not really unsettling to me but I wouldn’t want my kids there.
“You mean you think we should ignore what others think? Isnt that circular?”
No you shouldn’t benchmark your kid to other kids in the school. For instance if you have an average kid at NT you shouldn’t expect them to keep up with the best there and just be happy that it’s a good environment and they’re doing the best they can.
My dream was to live in NYC and have a fabulous career and I saw myself doing it probably single and childless, and that was OK with me. I ended up living in Chicago married with two kids, and my career kind of fell by the wayside a little, and it turns out that that’s OK with me too. I think my kids have a pretty good life even if they don’t have the best of the best or attend private schools or take 5 after school classes a week. Sure I wish I could give them more but they have all they need and a lot of what they want.
It’s funny that you mention finding a man who wants a stay at home wife and to live in the suburbs, my husband had the opposite problem!
As for ALDI, I wouldn’t have shopped there in Europe and I won’t shop there now. But I love Trader Joes and they are owned by the same company (I suspect a lot of the food is the sane too). Go figure.
Bob-
My school social worker friends would beg to differ on the exception to the rule statement One is at New trier the other at Stevenson and both originally started in poverty stricken schools.
Both of them say their jobs are a million times more difficult at the ‘posh’ schools. The stories they tell are unbelievable. To their points of view, you absolutely know the challenges facing the impoverished youth, but the well off ones will throw you a new curve each and everyday. Also, primary concern is that the parents display a total disregard for any discipline the school tries to inact and lay blame squarely on the school each and every time. Literally both of them get “my parents will sue you, or have your job” on a daily basis. My one friend always wants to say “wow, it would be great to actually hear from your parents since they have never returned a single call”.
One told me that the parents of a kid who attempted suicide at left her at home for six months with the cars and bank accounts and could not be bothered to even come home from europe. The girl literally tried to off herself to get them to come home. So yah, it’s not always what it seems.
Very interesting. I think I had heard that before but forgot about it. I like TJ too. I wish more of them were around. BTW, talking about TJ, have you ever shopped at TJ Maxx? I love it. They have Kuhn Rikon and other quality kitchen and bedding products regularly at very good prices.
“But I love Trader Joes and they are owned by the same company (I suspect a lot of the food is the sane too). Go figure.”
“My dream was to live in NYC and have a fabulous career and I saw myself doing it probably single and childless, and that was OK with me.
…
It’s funny that you mention finding a man who wants a stay at home wife and to live in the suburbs, my husband had the opposite problem!”
Most corporate women pre-kids have the same idea you do. Many of them change after kids as that becomes more important to them than the programming that career is everything and that which holds value. Thing is you can’t tell which ones will change post-kids or not–there is no way to tell.
adolescence is no walk in the park for anyone – but adding poverty to it is still dialing the stress level up to 11.
poor kids have parents who are never around as well (3rd shifters, in jail, sales/traveling jobs), but without the luxury of housekeepers, babysitters, being able to order out for dinner any time they want, etc.
“But I would rather we don’t spend money unneccessarily. All the little things add up.”
Milky, i have the ADHD version of that philosophy but people underestimate how much you save a year by the little things.
“Actually, I bought in an un-hip part of Brooklyn 14 years ago when everyone was like WTF are you doing?”
I will say the second major reason for us being able to live the way we do is, housing costs. My mortgage is ~$850 per month and thats with tax and insurance escrow included. I do most work myself and all maintenance myself, plus a smaller house is cheaper to heat and cool.
So my monthly housing costs are lower than Bob’s bargin 1br apartment.
trade off’s are the hood has taken a slide since the recession, the school sucks azz, and now if we want to sell have to compete with bank owned homes in one of the top foreclosure neighborhoods in chicago.
but all that the low housing cost provided us its been well worth the trade off’s.
Skeptic,
doode i learned long ago to sacrifice style to save my feet, my back and knee’s are thanking me for it as i get older!
“groove – so with you on the shoes. a MD friend of mine once broke the meaning of life down to a simple sentence – if you are going to spend good money on anything, do it on shoes and a mattress, as you are going to spend 2/3 of your life on your feet/asleep.”
DZ,
you are correct on everything else but the shoes. for work I sport the same rockports in brown and black and when i found the first pair and how well they worked with me i bought out the store in my size. that style has been discontinued 2 years ago i think but i still have three left in brown and one in black. now these are on the cheaper side of price but not “Quality”. i think now Adidas makes them in man made material, so i will soon need to find another staple.
“Methinks groove’s spending is more on stylish. I know a couple who swear by their Dux bed”
“So my monthly housing costs are lower than Bob’s bargin 1br apartment.”
I live in a studio actually, heh. And my rent includes cable, internet and a deeded off street parking space. Also the maintenance of my place is covered by the landlord. So nice try. 😀
“talking about TJ, have you ever shopped at TJ Maxx? ”
If you dont hit the marshalls/maxxinista/home goods combo before you spend elsewhere then you are just burning money.
just stay away from anything Polo or calvin klein there as its the “special made” outlet products. it will be the same cut and color but sub-par material than its original. there are other mass production brands that do this also, i just dont have the names at the top of the cranium.
“I live in a studio actually, heh. And my rent includes cable, internet and a deeded off street parking space. Also the maintenance of my place is covered by the landlord. So nice try”
ahh details, but you get where i was going with that statment.
but for the details perspective, well my “rent to the bank” covers deeded off street parking for about two cars in the garage and five in the driveway. it has three more bedrooms than a studio, one more bath, a private deck and yard, i could ghetto rig the cable from a neighbors and it would be free then. you do got me on the maintenance as that burden is all mine.
Bob – is your studio in uptown?
To be honest Groove, I don’t like Polo or CK any ways.I have only one RL item, a shearling coat which is from his collection. I mostly buy home stuff from TJ. In fact, one time I bought their entire down comforter stock and gave them as Christmas gifts to my in-laws (extended included). They could not believe it that I had bought them so cheap. Since then I keep getting orders to fill out in TJ and then ship overseas : )
“miumiu”
I always have three “REAL” Polo original polos shirts in the rotation, they fits so well and are so dang soft. but thats it, not a fan of ck quality compared to its price.
try Home Goods its TJMaxx owned and its taking the home section of tjmaxx and turning it into a whole store.
I will say almost all small cooking utensils are from the tj trifecta.
oh and small rugs are dirt cheap, picture frames too, all our BBQ plates and glasses from there too.
Good tip groove. They are opening a store on Michigan Ave. soon too!
600 North Michigan Ave
Grand opening on 6/12/2011 from 8am to 8pm!
I plan on hitting up the Dollar Tree for dishes the next time I’m in town. I just heard about it. The stuff is actually nice and nothing’s over a dollar. I think the one in the Addison Mall is pretty large:
http://www.dollartree.com/home.jsp
Oooh! Dollar Tree has free shipping from their website to any of their stores for just $4.95:
http://www.dollartree.com/custserv/custserv.jsp?pageName=StorePick-up
I’ve seen all sides of our wonderful education system continuum. Everything from a crappy school in the hood, to rich public high school, and top graduate school.
I went to a new trier like public high school and the a lot of the kids had some serious esteem issues and it was tied very much to their success in school. Extreme competitiveness and peer pressure. I have never seen a kid from the ‘hood want to kill themselves because they got a C in Algebra or because their parents are off running around in Europe. Their entire self worth is wrapped up in where they get into college and how many AP classes they took.
A lot of the kids I knew from the hood had some serious issues in their lives. Some coped and some didn’t. Everything from cracked out parents to being homeless. The rich kids had rich problems and the poor kids had poor problems. If I had to choose, I’d take rich kid problems any day though. I was solidly lower middle class which made me normal I guess…
Social problems are relative. Kids who have very easy lives tend to have relatively petty problems. However, if that is all you know, then what may seem petty to everyone else, may be a huge problem in your world. It is like how filthy rich celebs cry about paparazzi and not being able to do normal things yet most broke non celeb folks would trade positions with them in a heart beat. Or how only in a country where food is so plentiful do we have issues with anorexia and bulimia.
Bob, be happy you don’t live in China…lol
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/world/asia/15bachelors.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=global-home
Miumiu my secret bed linen shopping place is the Bed Bath & Beyond in Gurnee Mills, the mall itself is nothing to write home about but this BB&B has a hidden clearance corner, a couple of weeks ago I bought a whole new set of DKNY bed linen including a king size comforter for under $60.
Bob I have to say my about face in attitude to children and career surprised me more than anyone. I still want the career, and the city life, but I had my kids young enough that I’ll have time to do it later luckily.
miumiu:
Not only is infanticide of the female morally wrong–it’s a constant worry among demographers that the gender imbalance could lead to societal instability–males without a mate have nothing to lose.
“If I had to choose, I’d take rich kid problems any day though. ”
Same here. I don’t even think the problems are really comparable. Most of the rich kids problems can be solved by merely having the right paradigm and mindset. IE: not going through life trying to please your parents at every turn and not trying to benchmark yourself to your peers.
Having the proper outlook can’t put the poor kids problems into perspective nearly as well. They are, by and large, “real” problems not imagined.
“Bob – is your studio in uptown?”
It’s a below grade studio in Garfield Park.
East or West Garfield Park?
Yes Bob I recall reading an article about it a while back. It is indeed a very sad and sick practice which ends messing up society.
“My dream was to live in NYC and have a fabulous career and I saw myself doing it probably single and childless, and that was OK with me.”
http://takimag.com/article/new_york_city_an_elephants_graveyard_for_ovaries
This is back on the market, same agent, at $929k.
Finally sold for $825,000, June of 2012.