3-Bedroom Victorian Bucktown Cottage Reduces $55K: 1848 W. Cortland
We last chattered about this vintage 3-bedroom cottage at 1848 W. Cortland in Bucktown in early April 2011.
See our prior chatter here.
It provoked a long discussion about paying $500,000 for 1870s worker’s cottages.
Since that time, it has been reduced $55,000 to $485,000.
If you recall, it has 11 foot ceilings on the first floor along with a separate dining room.
The kitchen has maple cabinets, granite counter tops and black appliances and also has an 11×9 breakfast room.
All 3 bedrooms are on the second floor.
Built on a 26.5×118 lot, it has both a front and a back deck along with a 2-car garage.
The house also has central air.
Given the prices of 3-bedroom townhouses (or condos, for that matter) in the neighborhood, is this getting closer to a selling price?
Randie Shapiro at Koenig & Strey Real Living has the listing. See the pictures and the floor plan here.
1848 W. Cortland: 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 2 car garage, no square footage listed
- Sold in May 1988 for $86,000
- Sold in January 1991 for $95,000
- Sold in March 1995 for $215,000
- Sold in August 1999 for $318,000
- Sold in February 2004 for $505,000
- Originally listed in November 2010 for $625,000
- Reduced
- Was listed in April 2011 for $535,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $485,000
- Taxes of $8300
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 12×12 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 13×11 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 14×12 (second floor)
- Living room: 14×13
- Dining room: 13×12
- Kitchen: 13×13
- Breakfast room: 11×9
- Office: 13×7
This listing has an offer and is contingent
Small house, small lot, small bedrooms, no viable public school optionsn high taxes, and nearly half a million dollars. Sounds about right: welcome to chicago folks.
At least its cheaper than Boston!
“small lot”
Reported dimensions are I think (doing in my head so no guarantees) v slightly larger than sq footage of 25X125.
“no viable public school options”
In Pulaski, so either viable or potentially viable, depending on your perspective (assuming you are a neighborhood CPS type person to start with).
HD – I’ll back up DZ on pushing back on the elementary school point. I’m personally looking at moving into the Pulaski area as one of the district we’re considering. The rest… well I know you are being snarky but it’s the case in some highly popular areas.
Lot price for this area looks to be about $300k. This place is certainly nothing special, but its not a dump either. It should sell for $450k.
I am sticking to my previous comment;
cute little frame house…..
…oh wait 535k for a little frame house? yuppie puppies are fun to watch
Obviously, someone thought this was a good buy/fit for them and put in an offer. You can learn a lot from properties that are contingent because they are the ones that have been chosen by people in the market and actively/aggressively looking at everything out there…
Yea!!! I’m not one of the people banned!!! Thanks Sabrina!! (please see her posting on the “Bank Owned 2-Bedroom at 3014 N. Sheffield in Lakeview Finally Sells for 55% Under 2006 Price” thread….
The housing bust and stuck yuppies with puppies is the best thing to ever happen to CPS. Though this is probably not the case here–Just sayin.
“no viable public school options”
In Pulaski, so either viable or potentially viable, depending on your perspective (assuming you are a neighborhood CPS type person to start with).
“Small house, small lot, small bedrooms, no viable public school optionsn high taxes, and nearly half a million dollars. Sounds about right: welcome to chicago folks.’
Is this any different than the Portage Park frame houses also listed at $500,000? (or higher?)
Why would people pay that for Portage Park? At least with this house you can walk to Bucktown restaurants/shopping.
Hey! I thought you were on vacation-back to the beach missy.
“Yea!!! I’m not one of the people banned!!!”
You will be in ~70 days.
“Hey! I thought you were on vacation-back to the beach missy.”
I have my iPad out along with my cocktail.
🙂
Just watching to make sure we end the week on a positive note.
“Just watching to make sure we end the week on a positive note.”
Maybe put up a drool-worthy property? When it’s a mediocre 2/2 in a inferior location, people seem to turn on each other.
I keep my eye on real estate in Kenosha and Racine, as I’m a beach bum who places a high value on the lake. A house with this curb appeal, small dimensions, and close proximity to the neighbor would go for about $50k in todays market up there (although without the updating).
Yeah… I know about the importance of location and employment opportunities. And I know about the myriad of problems in these two cities. But does Bucktown really command a factor of 10X more than something similar up north of the cheddar curtain?
@ Danny Yes.
yeah, she is a mac user too : ) But let’s not get back to that discussion…lol
BTW, I have a question about the exterior. I really don’t like the wood ones, is it possible to change it to brick or stone and if so how much does it cost?
“I have my iPad out along with my cocktail.”
Speaking of the beach, I just got back from LA. I did some beach walking at Manhattan, Venice and Santa Monica beaches. They have a great bikepath, much like ours.
For any family with kids currently 5 and under, Pulaski is a great enrollment boundary to be in, with their new IB early years program, and the former South Loop principal heading the school. Wells for high school is still a big problem, but most buyers aren’t thinking 9 years down the road.
Bucktown @ Damen and Armitage was so beautiful last night. It is going to be a wonderful summer. Amazing how three hoods (BT WP UV) so close to one another can each have such a distinct feeling.
Michelle–You seem very CPS knowledgeable regardless of the area.
Not sure if that’s a compliment or expression of doubt.
“Michelle–You seem very CPS knowledgeable regardless of the area.”
A compliment– with a trust but verify attitude.
“Is this any different than the Portage Park frame houses also listed at $500,000? (or higher?)
Why would people pay that for Portage Park? At least with this house you can walk to Bucktown restaurants/shopping.”
neither should cost that much, but sheeple need to flock in heards and there is a limited amount of land in the spots they graze so be it the price for a cute frame (once starter home) is in the 500k.
I find it funny all the praise for always failing pulaski school. i guess the sheeple need to make themselves feel better that they chose their own enjoyement over their kids education.
If i repeat it enough times it will be true “the school is improving, the school is improving, the school is improving” ok i feel better, now i can go have brunch and walk to boutique shops. and if i feel guilty i will take the double wide stroller out and meet the nanny and my kids that are at the park without me and go to margies candy.
yeah all is good in the world yeah
http://www.cps.edu/Schools/Pages/school.aspx?unit=5520
Is average despite a high number of low income the new standard for an attractive district with a bullet? Or is it that Grades k-2 are seeing the sea-change and creating the positive vibe/hope?
“i guess the sheeple need to make themselves feel better that they chose their own enjoyement over their kids education.
If i repeat it enough times it will be true “the school is improving, the school is improving, the school is improving” ok i feel better, now i can go have brunch and walk to boutique shops. and if i feel guilty i will take the double wide stroller out and meet the nanny and my kids that are at the park without me and go to margies candy.”–I think this more often the case when I hear “people move here for the district” type talk.
[Portage Park and Bucktown properties] neither should cost that much, ”
Agreed.
“If i repeat it enough times it will be true “the school is improving, the school is improving, the school is improving””
That’s a little harsh Groovy.
“I find it funny all the praise for always failing pulaski school.”
The question is whether the attempts to jump start it will work. They have worked for other previously failings schools.
Keep in mind that in the 60641 area code, which includes portage park, old irving park and parts of avondale, Belmont-Craigian – there are NO single family homes under contract for more than $500,000; the most expensive home currently under contract is listed at $478,000.
In the Western Burbs this house is right around 300K. I think 400-420K is fair here. Not sure who would move here for schools though.
Sure, DZ, just not in Logan Sq or West Town.
“The question is whether the attempts to jump start it will work. They have worked for other previously failings schools.”
yes when times were good and looking better. I am on the fence about it all IDK if with people stuck and people wanting to be closer to the loop and lake will help get a push for these types of schools to change. or if all the budget cuts and many more years of cuts to come will just cancel out the push for change.
There can be a spark and one or two schools can change and become great, but it can also go the other way.
is that really a chance your willing to take?
“is that really a chance your willing to take?”
wait let me phrase that better,
CC’ers are you willing to pay 500k for a old small frame cottage knowing in 10 years at max you might have a gain of 1%-2% a year and hope the local school turns out good during a regime change and budget cuts for years to come?
for me i have better ways to spend 500k
“just not in Logan Sq or West Town.”
Not sure if you are saying this about Pulaski/Bucktown. Are conditions in bucktown that different from what they were in Burley before it improved (not that I necessarily think burley is acceptable at the moment)?
“yes when times were good and looking better”
I’m not sure which way this cuts. It would not appear to me that bucktown will de-gentrify (whatever that means). And economic conditions might cause yups to focus more on CPS option.
“is that really a chance your willing to take?”
I’m honestly not sure. There isn’t a Pulaski premium, so it’s not that much of a gamble. Also, with just one kid, my reservations about private school are more finding one I think would be right for my kid and our family, than cost (although cost is not irrelevant).
Very few would willing take that risk. I think the few place, and Bucktown may be one, where tons of yuppies (or whatever) moved to and now are stuck but they start families anyway because it is 5 years later have a chance at really changing. But you’d have to have the right mix of people unwilling to walk-away from their bad real-estate choices, a high concentration of like-minded post college yuppies, and a small enough school. Pilaski is on the larger side around 750 K-8. It would take a lot of stuck yuppies to really change that.
“Not sure if you are saying this about Pulaski/Bucktown. Are conditions in bucktown that different from what they were in Burley before it improved (not that I necessarily think burley is acceptable at the moment)?”
that could be a cut and paste for any nieghborhood with a below average school, you can choose.
“I’m not sure which way this cuts. It would not appear to me that bucktown will de-gentrify (whatever that means). And economic conditions might cause yups to focus more on CPS option.”
i dont think buck/wicker will degentrify in the next 15 years, and true conditions may cause yups to turn to CPS.
“I’m honestly not sure. There isn’t a Pulaski premium, so it’s not that much of a gamble. Also, with just one kid, my reservations about private school are more finding one I think would be right for my kid and our family, than cost (although cost is not irrelevant).”
and thats the thing why gamble? 500k can take you very far in the city and with one kid 500k you even have greater options.
I’ve toured pulaski and know parents of kids there in K right now. It’s definitely a viable option IMO and is only going to get better.
There’s a whole lot of parents out there right now who are stuck and cannot afford private tuition and are turning their attention and money (a few grand per year) to CPS schools.
“is that really a chance your willing to take?”
Sorry, but this comment has me laughing. Seriously? Is what a chance you are willing to take? That somehow your kid will be damaged so badly by CPS? IMO that starts and ends at home. The school is merely supplement to that.
I recall discussions about “rebound” at Oscar Mayer School in DePaul, but that regentrification didn’t occur in time for this year’s graduating 8th grade class of white-collar DePaul-area parents’ children. Neighborhood 8th-graders overwhelming attended private school anyways. We have older teens, so that discussion was moot for us; at the time we considered elementary school, Mayer was overwhelming low-income, low-performing bused-in student enrollment.
White-collar Chicago parents of preschool children optimistically approach elementary school enrollment, and some K-8 CPS schools are now solid choices. But a “shadowing day” is really needed to assess whether your local CPS school is truly a good-fit for your child. And you need to consider school’s relative prevalence of weak teachers, curriculum goals, degree of school discipline as evidenced in classroom, hallway, and playground behavior, etc. Not all upper-middle class kids thrive at their local CPS school, no matter how involved parents become in turning around/improving that school or supplement at home. It’s easier to cope with CPS in the lower grades, and more difficult to reconcile “good school expectations” in the upper grades.
It’s important to note K-8 curriculum goals and teaching approaches vary, and actual curriculum accomplishments vary too from school to school and from teacher to teacher. Having experienced two different school districts with two different economic profiles, I noted that upper-income school district had a far more challenging K-8 curriculum, more resources, better and more accessible special ed services, and much higher expectations for student performance. And ISAT scores had a 30-point differential on average.
And an “A” student at one school, isn’t necessarily same academic achievement as “A” student elsewhere.
High school is another discussion altogether.
Test test… checking to see if I am banned.
So much talk of public schools. Who cares if you don’t have kids? Also if you can afford the 1/2 million dollar house you can spring for a private high school.
“It would take a lot of stuck yuppies to really change that.”
and from all the nannies on the weekend taking the kids out to kids stuff, i get the impression that the yuppies arent that invovled in the first place so change may be harder.
but who knows i am just one mans view of the situation (and not the best view at that)
but again WHY chance it?
People who are unfamiliar with how and why a CPS school changes and transforms over time are often the ones who decline to look into the actual workings of a school via a visit to a campus open house, meeting the principal, or talking to current parents. They are the same people who, when the school is later fully or over-enrolled due to its years of proven success (like Bell, let’s say), then complain that there aren’t enough “options” or “choices” within the city’s public school system. That’s OK. We need trailblazers comfortable entering into uncharted territory, but there will always be a huge number of late followers as well, and it’s all good.
It’s about living in a vibrant environment and exposing your kid(s) to the best of what Chicago has to offer. In a given week, my kids are at the zoo, msi, shedd, art institute, green city market…..the list goes on and on. To be able to have all of these places close at hand is invaluable to a kids overall ‘education’.
Michelle-
Couldn’t agree more. I pretty much disregard anyone’s CPS opinions, who has not actually done the due dilligence to check out the options out there.
“There’s a whole lot of parents out there right now who are stuck and cannot afford private tuition and are turning their attention and money (a few grand per year) to CPS schools. ”
yes and overcrowding was a problem during the 2000-2007 can you imagine what it will be like when MORE forgo private for CPS?
“Sorry, but this comment has me laughing. Seriously? Is what a chance you are willing to take? That somehow your kid will be damaged so badly by CPS? IMO that starts and ends at home. The school is merely supplement to that.”
hey trudi, laugh all you like but i went through CPS all 14 years of it. and i went to the top schools and the bottom schools and one in the middle. a lot has changed since i went but the premise is still the same.
@ Jason (TFO), that is what I thought too, but I think many people opt for 3-4 kids rather than say 1 or 2, so it is not easy to pay so much tuition and also as Sabrina said it, it is a monthly payment nation. Most families don’t save that much. In fact, they buy homes at the close to maximum of their payment capacity and that is pretty much what they can afford.
“that could be a cut and paste for any nieghborhood with a below average school, you can choose”
You’re aware they’ve started an IB program (don’t care about IB, but it’s a way to jump start), new principal, new preK, etc.? Not saying it will nec work, but that distinguishes it from other elem in the bucktown/wicker/logan area.
“It’s about living in a vibrant environment and exposing your kid(s) to the best of what Chicago has to offer. In a given week, my kids are at the zoo, msi, shedd, art institute, green city market…..the list goes on and on. To be able to have all of these places close at hand is invaluable to a kids overall ‘education’”
yeah i do all that too and with a chicago address and in a better district than Pulaski and for way less the 500k for a small cottage.
i do loose the hood vibrancy but i do gain letting my kid ride his bike around the block without worry
“You’re aware they’ve started an IB program (don’t care about IB, but it’s a way to jump start), new principal, new preK, etc.? Not saying it will nec work, but that distinguishes it from other elem in the bucktown/wicker/logan area.”
thats a good point, but IB is a “test in” portion of the school and from other parents i hear the the focus gets to much on the IB’s and not rest of the little brats.
“I recall discussions about “rebound” at Oscar Mayer School in DePaul, but that regentrification didn’t occur in time for this year’s graduating 8th grade class of white-collar DePaul-area parents’ children.”
Correct, it did not. The Montessori program that has attracted that demographic to Mayer is currently K-4th grade, so it will be 4 more years until the school is fully yuppified, a term I use neutrally. Mayer is one of only a handful of schools whose ISAT scores for 3rd grade (earliest year ISATs are taken) have not improved much in spite of the changing demographics and the infusion of new program and parental commitment. I’m not a Montessori fan, so I blame it squarely on the fact that building blocks are not covered on standardized tests.
“but IB is a “test in” portion of the school and from other parents i hear the the focus gets to much on the IB’s and not rest of the little brats”
Not test in, IB for neighborhood, starting with younger grades on rolling basis (yes, the kids who were already there may be getting screwed, that was a point of some contention).
“So much talk of public schools. Who cares if you don’t have kids? Also if you can afford the 1/2 million dollar house you can spring for a private high school.”–Good Private education is really expensive, and have a hard time seeing a person who buys this house who won’t have a kid within 5 years, if they don’t already have one. Why else would you live in this nice but totally boring house?
“but IB is a “test in” portion of the school”
No, you’re thinking of the middle years IB programs at places like Lincoln elementary or Ogden. At Pulaski, for the early years IB program, it’s open for all within boundaries, you just sign up. From their website:
Enrollment in the K – 8 International Baccalaureate program is guaranteed for all children who live within the Pulaski Attendance Boundary. Students who do not live within the attendance boundary may enroll on a space available basis.
“We need trailblazers comfortable entering into uncharted territory, but there will always be a huge number of late followers as well”
Michelle, i cant agree with you more and i hope there are more like you.
i will play the safe odds, as for me and my genetics i will stick with a proven results for my kids and push for better in the proven results school.
“But a “shadowing day” is really needed to assess whether your local CPS school is truly a good-fit for your child.”
I would like to highlight this statement by Architect, though I’d try to do multiple days + discussions with parents + open houses/info from principals/teachers. Also, you can obviously eliminate the words “your local CPS” and replace it with “any.”
“And you need to consider school’s relative prevalence of weak teachers, curriculum goals, degree of school discipline as evidenced in classroom, hallway, and playground behavior, etc.”
“It’s important to note K-8 curriculum goals and teaching approaches vary, and actual curriculum accomplishments vary too from school to school and from teacher to teacher.”
“more challenging K-8 curriculum, more resources, better and more accessible special ed services, and much higher expectations for student performance.”
also quoted for truth. but if you’re simply using F/R L and test scores as proxies, without researching these issues for yourself, as Architect obviously HAS done, you’re doing yourself a great disservice.
It’s amazing that no-one has a hard time appreciating that different neighborhoods/cities have distinct characteristics and are better/worse fits for different people (well, except maybe some Lincoln Parkers!), and yet most consider a “good” vs. “improving” or “bad” school a transparent, self-evident call.
“I’m not a Montessori fan, so I blame it squarely on the fact that building blocks are not covered on standardized tests.”
i just pee’d myself laughing at that one. thank you
“laugh all you like but i went through CPS all 14 years of it”
I’m just curious which grade you flunked?
“Not test in, IB for neighborhood, starting with younger grades on rolling basis (yes, the kids who were already there may be getting screwed, that was a point of some contention).”
“No, you’re thinking of the middle years IB programs at places like Lincoln elementary or Ogden. At Pulaski, for the early years IB program, it’s open for all within boundaries, you just sign up. From their website:”
cool didnt know that DZ and Michelle. and yes it was lincoln i have a coworker whos kid is at LP HS.
yet another layer of complexity and confusion in CPS.
Another thing about owning vs renting – I think people sometimes underestimate maint. costs of owning a house vs a condo. Right now I have a crew trimming trees and putting down 60 yards of bark mulch at my house- total bill for the day: 7800.00!!! How do you make sense of owning a large house/property when you have expenses like this? – compare that to assm for even a luxury condo and you can see that you are going to be paying a steep premium for living in the burbs or owning a sfh (like the one on this thread)
Michelle, what are Montessori schools like? Are they very lax? I am old school when it comes to education, like uniforms, difficult exams, and tough schedule and not pampering of the kids and telling them, they are all above average!
What type of education you recommend for this philosophy. I am willing to pay for private schooling if they are tough enough.
” I’m not a Montessori fan”
“i just pee’d myself laughing at that one. thank you”
Dammit, now I regret my 9:20 post.
True Clio, we just changed our fence and I think it was over 4K or so, but some folks do their own maintenance work that saves them a lot. We are useless and cannot do handyman’s work : (
“I’m just curious which grade you flunked?”
it wasnt flunked because of grades, i was kicked out of HS, well two HS’s in one year. and because i worked in the summer i didnt want to do summer school for tow summers to catch up.
“what are Montessori schools like? Are they very lax? I am old school when it comes to education, like uniforms, difficult exams, and tough schedule and not pampering of the kids and telling them, they are all above average!
What type of education you recommend for this philosophy. I am willing to pay for private schooling if they are tough enough.”
I think you want the anti-montessori school, something like Gordonstoun (although I think it’s coed now, which suggests laxness).
miumiu–Don’t feel bad, I don’t think changing a fence is average Handyman’s work.
“i was kicked out of HS, well two HS’s in one year”
OK, with that genetic heritage, your children do need to go to a proven school. In spite of my big talk, I’m taking the same route. 🙂
I really have to get back to work! Miumiu, I’ll post back about your question later today, if you want to check back.
As for CPS cuts–Rahm was on XRT yesterday morning and seemed preety pleased with what Springfield is doing for CPS. I don’t expect too much to come from cuts–but other services will suffer.
“In spite of my big talk, I’m taking the same route.” Trust but Verify–Check!
Groove–I don’t think it’s genetic. Everybody has to get down at some point in their lives. 16 is a better time to do it then 23. See Wrigleyville on an average summer day.
“OK, with that genetic heritage, your children do need to go to a proven school.”
If it wanst for my parents and the base education of a proven school i would be cracked out in jail or asking you for a dollar or dead.
so my motto for my genetics is proven school, involved parenting, exposure to the arts and sports, create a good base, and let the rest fall where it may lay.
“In spite of my big talk, I’m taking the same route”
hey tried to walked the walk. when wifey got preggo, we tried to push our local school to get better but after a while the principal said “your kid doesnt even go to this school” and just brushed us off after that. so we moved on to use our time and resources elsewhere.
That’s not necessarily true. I’ve always said that I’d either pay expensive property taxes OR private school, but not both.
“#Jason (TFO) on May 13th, 2011 at 8:59 am
Test test… checking to see if I am banned.
So much talk of public schools. Who cares if you don’t have kids? Also if you can afford the 1/2 million dollar house you can spring for a private high school.”
That sucks. It’s hard to change a school when the principal shuts you down. I actually am walking the walk, got elected to my local school’s LSC as a community member last year eventhough my kid is not in school yet. That’s one way to start to get involved.
“hey tried to walked the walk. when wifey got preggo, we tried to push our local school to get better but after a while the principal said “your kid doesnt even go to this school” and just brushed us off after that. so we moved on to use our time and resources elsewhere.”
Funny if this house were listed at 325k i wouldnt even go into a rant about taking chances and the CPS. I would have talked about how great the hood is and for 350k (plus the obligatory 10% off list) would be a great home for a starting family.
the brain works in funny ways
“That sucks. It’s hard to change a school when the principal shuts you down.”
it was a shyte school in a becoming shyte neighborhood.
I am glad there are people like you, i wish i had the ability to push and deal with people that are fighting positive change. I know my wife tried harder than i, but here notorious temper showed up one day and i want to say she may be banned from the property until we have a family member enrolled. (i cant rememebr if it was that harsh or not).
One major difference between Pulaski turning over and other schools is that Pulaski didn’t just get a new principal and hope for the best. It’s actually now a local attendance school. Whereas before, neighborhood kids couldn’t go here. So the swarms of yuppie kids all around this school will now be going here. And their parents will be getting involved. That alone will improve test scores, one would think. The new principal and program are bonus, but not the main reason to hope this school will change.
oh crap did you guys see that ghost?
lol
Groove:
What happened, my man, most negative I’ve seen you in a while. And on such a bee-you-tee-full day, too.
what are all your thoughts on the new Lasalle 2 school on honore/division? recently moved near there, but won’t be thinking about the school thing for a few more yrs at least.
“Michelle, what are Montessori schools like? Are they very lax? I am old school when it comes to education, like uniforms, difficult exams, and tough schedule and not pampering of the kids and telling them, they are all above average!
What type of education you recommend for this philosophy. I am willing to pay for private schooling if they are tough enough.”
My understanding is that Montessori is “child-directed” learning, with the kid deciding what to undertake next at stations set up in the classroom. However, once they choose an activity, there is a learning goal set out for them, and they call these “works”, which they are supposed to do pretty much independently. They use a lot of hands-on things like sand and blocks. They group kids according to ages like 6 to 9, in the same classroom, and the older kids help “teach” the younger ones through their natural interactions. I think the program is probably fine for preschool (I went to one myself, apparently) but after that, not so much. Even at the preschool level, I have a beef with the fact that they highly discourage imaginary play using objects, like using a stick as a pretend fire hose or fairy wand.
If you tend to like traditional teaching methods, don’t even look into Waldorf method. Tons of knitting and playing the recorder. Both of which are great, but not for an eight-year-old who can’t read yet. Priorities, people.
Actually, miu, with your affection for a demanding curriculum, tough exams, uniforms and lack of coddling, I would recommend you consider British School, if your budget allows. As a public school advocate, I’m loathe to give accolades to a private school (run by a for-profit company, at that!), but I know three families whose kids go to British, and I’m always envious when I hear about the depth of their curriculum, especially in areas like foreign language and music, which often get suboptimal treatment in CPS. If I had $30K per child per year disposable cash, I’d sign up there. If you’re Asian and thus add to diversity, your child is a shoo-in. Bonus points if you speak excellent English with a charming foreign accent.
“Groove:
What happened, my man, most negative I’ve seen you in a while. And on such a bee-you-tee-full day, too.”
i am a bit gassy, woke up late and missed breakfast and my foot hurts. I step on a metal Emily from thomas the train.
So a rough start to the day. and a bit tesnse from yesterdays Cribchatter interaction.
Thank you for asking, but your right shake it off its FRIIIIIDAYY.
Crib Chatter seems to have morphed into CPS Chatter on this thread.
Montessori is fantastic for preschool and kindergarden. A little suspect after that.
My brothers and I all went through kindergarden. Yes there’s a lot of hands on teaching stuff and it’s pretty open. But the hands on stuff includes math and reading, not just playing. So I was a couple years ahead of my classmates in 1st grade in terms of math and reading when I went to public school.
Not sure I’d do Montessori much past early years, though.
“Crib Chatter seems to have morphed into CPS Chatter on this thread.”
its all in the definition of “Crib”!!!!
still better than the recent morphs lately.
“So I was a couple years ahead of my classmates in 1st grade in terms of math and reading when I went to public school. ”
Ditto.
Do any kids WALK to school anymore?
I was looking out my window this morning while getting ready for work, and I realized that most everyone on my block packs all the kids into a car and drive away with them. And I don’t think they’re going to some magnet schools out of the area, either.
It breaks my heart to know that there are kids who live in neighborhoods where they don’t go to the local school, have no friends up or down the block, never play outside unless it’s in their locked up back yard, or on a “play date” with other kids from their out-of-area school. And I’m talking about kids in GOOD neighborhoods!
What kind of a childhood is that?
“I was looking out my window this morning while getting ready for work, and I realized that most everyone on my block packs all the kids into a car and drive away with them. And I don’t think they’re going to some magnet schools out of the area, either.”
Isn’t that b/c your neighborhood school is Goethe (or worse Brentano)? Except for kids going to Berchmanns (and I do see a bunch of those kids walking), many are going too far away to walk.
“It breaks my heart to know that there are kids who live in neighborhoods where they don’t go to the local school, have no friends up or down the block, never play outside unless it’s in their locked up back yard, or on a “play date” with other kids from their out-of-area school.”
Lots of the neighborhood kids I know in Logan play with each other (they don’t generally go to the same school), mostly impromptu, often out front.
Did anyone watch the rebroadcast of the old 70’s documentary “Now We Live on Clifton” last night on channel 11? Interesting look at gentrification in the 70’s in Lincoln park.
It will be on again Sunday at 1:25pm.
http://www.suntimes.com/entertainment/television/5298985-421/clifton-showed-how-the-yuppies-took-over-west-lincoln-park.html
This is why you don’t let your children play unsupervised or walk to school alone.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/05/11/2011-05-11_james_troutman_arrested_in_rape_murder_of_neighbor_skyler_kauffman_9_family_says.html
Chibuilder. Thanks for the link. I will look for this!
Horrible stories like the one posted by HD strike at our reptilian brains, but the chances of being the victim of a crime like that are vanishingly small. I fear the dangers of auto traffic so much more, now that my kid is out there crossing streets alone. Here’s a great site for parents who understand statistics and risks, and refuse to live in fear while raising children in the city:
http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/
“Horrible stories like the one posted by HD strike at our reptilian brains”
It also happened in a small town of 6700, over 20 miles from Center City Philadelphia. A town without even a rail line *to* Center City. So maybe someplace like South Barrington or Bolingbrook, rather than Chicago.
we all know, that people are the same wherever you go. there’s good and bad, in everyone
I agree with Michelle. HD that story is pure fear mongering. Traffic is a much, much greater danger to your young children.
I am still in denial this place was purchased with cash but it’s obvious the owner will take a steep loss on this.
It’s 2011 not 2005: being a stone’s throw from the trendy bars (ie: Lottie’s, Bucktown Pub) does not automatically qualify a SFH as being worth near half a million dollars.
Oh and to those that would say those bars aren’t trendy: they surely are in an ironic sort of way to the pseudo-hipster/yuppie hybrids that live here.
Chibuilder. I saw part of that documentary and found it to be an interesting look into a vanished world.
pseudo-hipster/yuppie hybrids–Those are the best kind. They are going to save CPS, dontcha know!
“pseudo-hipster/yuppie hybrids … They are going to save CPS”
Ain’t gonna be anyone else, so why not? Plus, it might be more fodder for latfh.com
Like LATFH PTA/Mustache/Fixie/PBR/IB program connection? Bucktown is the most Yuppie-ish of the western hoods, so maybe. I still can’t believe how wonderful Damen and Armitage looked last night. Simply attractive out there with the Hipster/Yuppie hybrids and the open air bars and the Bulls game. Really nice.
“I still can’t believe how wonderful Damen and Armitage looked last night. Simply attractive out there with the Hipster/Yuppie hybrids and the open air bars and the Bulls game. Really nice.”
?? Don’t think that Damen/Armitage is top 3 of where I think to drink in/around B’town/WP/Ukie, but whadda I know, I’m old.
No Top 3. There’s 1 place to drink in that area, and then there’s all the rest. And that place is closer to Damen/Armitage than any other major intersection.
thanks a million Michelle. Great information.
You’re right, it was closer to North Avenue. It’s all kind of a blur.
for beer anyway…
makes sense b.
“Montessori is fantastic for preschool and kindergarden. A little suspect after that.”
“No Top 3. There’s 1 place to drink in that area, and then there’s all the rest. And that place is closer to Damen/Armitage than any other major intersection.”
Should have been more specific–areas to bar hop w/ places to sit outside.
And yeah, I know. Remember when Tuesday was international night with the travel presentation, the (usually very, very small) free buffet and $2 imports? They’d run out of Sam Smith somewhat regularly.
Unless you’re talking about someplace else …
It’s not fear mongering, it’s a valid threat. There are predators everywhere. It’s a dangerous world out there. Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it’s not there. It’s no excuse to live a sheltered life, but, it’s also no excuse not to be fully aware of the predators out there who prey on kids.
wise comment. I would be more afraid of traffic too. I think these days there is too much news of crimes broadcasted hence we think everyone is a pedophile or a predator. It is sad that kids have lost their freedoms because of the paranoia of the parents.
“we all know, that people are the same wherever you go. there’s good and bad, in everyone”
“It’s not fear mongering, it’s a valid threat. There are predators everywhere.”
Yep, even in Park Ridge, Barrington and wherever the hell else you think is nice in the ‘burbs. Ain’t *just* a city issue.
Here’s a kipnapping attempt to send shivers down your spine
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chibrknews-man-attempts-to-kidnap-woman-in-tinley-park-20110429,0,4588870.story
Yeah i know it’s will county but you would think that walking on the side of the road would be safe.
There were stretches I’d be there every Tuesday…
They still have Tuesday special events, I think, but not the same deals and I haven’t been frequenting
“And yeah, I know. Remember when Tuesday was international night with the travel presentation, the (usually very, very small) free buffet and $2 imports? “
“It’s not fear mongering, it’s a valid threat. There are predators everywhere. It’s a dangerous world out there.”
What the hell does that have to do with this particular property or area? Absolutely nothing. Hence, fear mongering.
Hundreds of thousands of parents allow their kids to play unsupervised. Stories like you posted are a rarity in this context.
“There are predators everywhere.”
Dude, c’mon, it’s friday afternoon, you’re not banned from CC (who the hell was??), and you have a job. Have a drink, go home to your family, or something.
particularly in Illinois:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRW2g2l49fk
“There were stretches I’d be there every Tuesday…”
Ever ask for an SS Oatmeal Stout and get a “no”? Then I was there, too.
“What the hell does that have to do with this particular property or area? Absolutely nothing. Hence, fear mongering.”
I think it’s a “rationalize living in the city” day for HD.
nah, it’s a “omigod i now have something about which i feel extremely protective and paranoid about” day
happens…
“so paranoid about i end up saying about twice” day
“we all know, that people are the same wherever you go. there’s good and bad, in everyone”
“wise comment”
lol, CH
Inever said it was a city issue, I was addressing laura’s comment about children not being able to play unsupervised.
“#anon (tfo) on May 13th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
“It’s not fear mongering, it’s a valid threat. There are predators everywhere.”
Yep, even in Park Ridge, Barrington and wherever the hell else you think is nice in the ‘burbs. Ain’t *just* a city issue.”
“I was addressing laura’s comment about children not being able to play unsupervised. ”
Laura??
And, what is the actual relevance of what goes on in the exurbs to whether or not city kids walk to school, or play outside?
Parents are way more protective now than when I grew up. I see kids riding bikes with helmets, knee pads, elbow pads, etc. Parents wont let them go anywhere. Everyone is afraid their kid is going to get snatched. This is why we have all these obese little kids now too.
Looking at all the crazy sh*t I did as a child, I am surprised I am not a quadriplegic or have limbs missing. Evil Knievel had nothing on me. We didn’t need no stinking helmets and elbow pads.
About the only rule was to be home by the time the street lights came on.
I made a big mistake when I moved to Oak Park. My house is across from a elementary school/park. One Halloween I thought I would get in the spirit of the season. I bought a really scary old man type mask. I put it on and then went and sat on a bench in the park so that when the kids got out of school they would see me and I would hand out candy. The kids thought it was hilarious while I was sitting on the bench. However, the parents completely freaked out. Next thing I know, the principal is running up on me telling me the parents are “concerned”, etc, etc.
Logansquarequeen, sorry. Both start with an L. The relevance about letting your child walk to school is the same in the city, suburbs or exurbs. I’m actually not overprotective despite the postings i made here. I just going to tell my kid to trust his gut instincts and if something seems weird, get the hell out of there, and never get in the car with anybody, ever. scream, yell, punch, poke out eyes, do whatever you have to but do not under any circumstance get into the old nasty beat up white van with no windows.
I hate waering a helmet riding a bike but I do. I hear a doctor say once “We can fix pretty much any bike injury but a brain injury” and given the amount of money I spent on my brain to get this far in life, no way do I want to jeopardize that b/c some drunk or DB decides to door me.
As I’ve said before, I mourn the inability of modern American parents to appropriately evaluate and respond to potential risks to their children (which I think is generally related to combining an inability to understand math with an appropriate desire to protect one’s children). Isolated stories about abductions don’t necessarily mean that children are at more than remote risks for these incidents. The fact that something has occurred does not mean that it is likely to occur or that a course of action that prevents any possibility of it happening to your child is the right approach. Confirmation bias is seductive; an appropriate analysis of risk places realistic values on the likelihoods and consequences of potential harms which might befall a child, as well as the likelihoods and consequences of strategies to avoid those harms.
Obviously, parents have to do what’s comfortable for them and lets them sleep at night. However, related to the “helicopter parent” phenomenon is the case of the parent who can’t let a child take ANY risks. The result is a young adult who is inappropriately afraid of the world and unable to function independently.
wow JJJ, very eloquently put.
I wonder if actually, by looking at police’s reported abduction record one would see a significant increase nowadays as opposed to say eighties, seventies and so on.
I liked the stat about swimming pools in the backyard being more dangerous than a gun in the house.
@ Russ, that is crazy. When my dad came over to visit us, I told him not to talk to little kids we don’t know or hug them or anything as in this country as soon as a man shows affection to kids, people freak out.
btw miu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmALA8miQY8
(36 sec in)
But at least pools are fun to have. I am not sure it makes much sense to have a gun if one lives in an urban area, of course remote places are a different story all together.
“I liked the stat about swimming pools in the backyard being more dangerous than a gun in the house.”
“I liked the stat about swimming pools in the backyard being more dangerous than a gun in the house.”
And our dear elected leaders say “we ain’t gonna clean up no stinkin river” because it would “increase the risk of people drowning”–what next, a ban on bathtubs?
Thanks CH. sorry I had never heard that song. At least now I know why G is laughing loud : )
“sorry I had never heard that song”
It was possible to be cognizant of pop culture in 1982 and escape Sir Paul and Little Stevie someplace on Earth?
Do you guys think some of the parents paranoia is partially result of them having kids later in life when people tend to become more risk averse? Also many people these days use fertility treatments and have to work harder to get pregnant as a result of again having kids again later in life.
your pa may be able to hug kids on the street where you grew up, but you missed out on that song….seems like a wash
I was a little kid in eighties and only remember cheesy dance tunes and stuff my teenage cousins used to watch. Honestly I had no idea who Sir Paul was then. Even more cardinal sin I have committed is that I don’t care much for Beetles even now. I know I know I am horrible and beyond redemption : )
“I don’t care much for Beetles even now”
What do VWs have to do with Sir Paul?
lol….not much, I cannot spell apparently specially on an iphone : )
“Next thing I know, the principal is running up on me telling me the parents are “concerned”, etc, etc.”
You sure they didn’t think you were part of Insane Clown Posse? That stuff happens in Winnetka and you’ll get the swat team on you.
mm.. Same thing down here, everyone plays witheveryone elses kid, almost an insult not to. I have un-ameicanized myself just enough to where i can pat someone elses male child on the head. Little girls i still refuse to go near for fear of a SWAT team materializing out of nowhere.
First week my wife is in NYC she sees a woman with a carriage trying to open the door to her building, my 110 pound wife runs to grab the door and help her, and the woman FREAKED!!!! I had to explain our cultural differences.
My belief is that boys need to grow up playin rough and getting injured. The bew ski helmet thing is pushing it too far. Bicycles, CRAZY if you do not wear one though if you really ride.
“First week my wife is in NYC she sees a woman with a carriage trying to open the door to her building, my 110 pound wife runs to grab the door and help her, and the woman FREAKED!!!! I had to explain our cultural differences.”
Also explained that that was largely a result of NY’rs expecting that anyone who is even vaguely polite (while not working) has some sort of angle they’re working, i hope. I do that sort of thing all the time and never get suspected of trying to steal their baby.
The bew ski helmet thing is pushing it too far”
bew or brew?…aka this http://www.onlyhelmets.com/userfiles/image/Keg%20Helmet.jpg
lol.. U are wrongly assuming, that as a New Yorker, I would have understood an accepetable and alternative universe existed outside of New York. Oh how awful, i grew up feeling, for those living in Alpine.
Funnier was me in a dress shirt and tie asking a very pretty 20 something girl to let me in her building because i couldn’t remember my friend was in 3B or 3C, but from inside I know. Oh there are not words to describe her face. Maybe it was a few weeks after some guy cut up and ate some woman and the model face slashing.
Ah NYC… Love it, but happy to have left….
ch..*new* Qwerty error… I like yours better… But with the liability insurance ski resorts require it would be funny to see u try to wear that onto a lift. Well maybe Crested Butte would allow it, and that’s all you need anyway.
Oh Ze is so ready for a South American winter ski trip.
talking about helmets, I have noticed most folks riding bikes wear helmets here but they forgo them when they ride motorcycles. That is kind of crazy to me. I would have thought the other way around makes more sense.
Sorry Russ, but that’s weird. You’re a grown man, zip your pants up and hand out candy from your house next Halloween.
miumiu, what country are you from where it’s socially acceptable for strange men to hug children they’ve never met before?
Can anyone show me where I can rent a 3 bedroom home in the heart of bucktown for $2600 a month? Otherwise, I say this property is a fair price.
“Can anyone show me where I can rent a 3 bedroom home in the heart of bucktown for $2600 a month? Otherwise, I say this property is a fair price.”
You don’t understand, Phil. The comp to a similar rental isn’t really the competition–it’s either the crappy studio you could rent, or a less convenient 2/2, or Plainfield, or Dallas, or NY/Bostoni/EsEff. No one cares about comparing apples to apples, because (1) that doesn’t reinforce their point, and (2) really, very few people do that around Chicago (that is, most buy something nicer/much different from what they would rent).
Yeah, this is a deal, right, SO IT WILLS SELL ASAP!!!
contingent