Dreaming of The Villa? This 4-Bedroom Is On a Huge Lot: 3625 N. Springfield in Irving Park
This 4-bedroom vintage home at 3625 N. Springfield in The Villa neighborhood of Irving Park recently came on the market.
Many of you have probably seen comments in some threads (especially by Homedelete) referencing “the villa”.
It is a landmark historic district established in 1907 just north of Addison and east of Pulaski in Irving Park.
It is distinctive for its architecture, its wide lot sizes, and medians running down the middle of two of the streets- Harding and Avers.
The neighborhood has 126 homes and a very active community organization.
This house was built in 1916 and is on a huge 105×120 lot.
There is a large deck and above ground pool as well as a 2-car garage.
The eat-in kitchen has stainless steel appliances and maple cabinets.
Two of the four bedrooms are on the second floor with the 3rd on the lower level and the fourth on the third floor.
There is central air and a fireplace.
Homes in The Villa, even fixers, have been selling relatively briskly- as Homedelete can attest to.
But those were smaller bungalows listed mainly under $400,000.
Can a home in The Villa command a price tag over $1 million?
If you’re interested in the neighborhood, you can go on a walking tour this Sunday, September 18:
The tours begin at 2 p.m. at the northeast corner of Addison Street (3600 North) and Pulaski Road (4000 West) and last between 90 minutes and two hours. Street parking is available but be aware of permit parking on Harding Avenue.
Reservations are recommended. Tours can be scheduled on other dates for groups of six or more. Cost is $10, payable on the day of the tour. For more information or to confirm attendance, contact us at tours@thevillachicago.com.
Read more about The Villa neighborhood here.
Kieran Conlon at Conlon has the listing. See the pictures here.
- Sold in June 1999 for $535,000
- Currently listed for $1.199 million
- Taxes of $4917
- Central Air
- Above ground pool
- Bedroom #1: 17×15 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 12×13 (lower level)
- Bedroom #3: 14×11 (second floor)
- Bedroom #4: 42×19 (third floor)
- Family room: 23×17 (lower level)
How the heck are taxes only $4917 for a house that sits on 4 lots.
Nothing screams 1.2 million dollar house more than an above ground pool, classy!
This house is too big and too ‘vintage’ for me
I look at the 1999 price and that’s all I need to know, four lots or not. but four lots would be pretty nice, right?
Is anyone getting lot envy from this?
If they want this price, it should be immaculate inside… and they should get rid of the above ground pool.
“Is anyone getting lot envy from this?”
No not really, paying someone to do all that yardwork, or doing it myself doesn’t seem very appealing to me. Maybe when Obama/Perry ruins the country to the point we are all growing our own crops, then yeah, that would be useful.
The lot is sweet and great curb appeal. I would have expected more updating at this price.
I think its overpriced but still believe it will garner high 9’s due to the lots.
“How the heck are taxes only $4917 for a house that sits on 4 lots.”
That’s either only one installment, or a typo. 2009 taxes were $9,917.
ps: That’s about right, based on the ’99 purchase price, and the “expanded” h-o exemption.
“I look at the 1999 price and that’s all I need to know, ”
please elaborate. What would you price it at?
I assume the “4 lots” aren’t separate PINs, so a developer can’t buy this, tear it down and put up 4 separate homes. So much is the land itself worth?
I’d think maybe $600K?
Icarus on September 14th, 2011 at 10:38 am
“I look at the 1999 price and that’s all I need to know, ”
please elaborate. What would you price it at?
—–
He thinks everything is too expensive
pps: also does not incldue ~$1500 in taxes for the two vacant lots under separate pins. So, actual taxes ~= $11,500.
skeptic on September 14th, 2011 at 10:40 am
I assume the “4 lots” aren’t separate PINs, so a developer can’t buy this, tear it down and put up 4 separate homes. So much is the land itself worth?
I’d think maybe $600K?
—-
You could seperate them although I don’t think this is a land deal.
with that kind of land I would put up a full basketball court. Then I’d invite sonies over to see what it feels like to dunk on a poisonous troll.
“I assume the “4 lots” aren’t separate PINs”
One 50′ lot pin, with the house; Two 25′ lot pins, vacant.
Taxes still seem cheap.
“Taxes still seem cheap.”
They (seriously) are right in line for a $535k ’99 purchase, with the “expanded” exemption, and the 7%/year “limit”. Provided no basis for re-assessing upwards (like major, permitted, renovations).
Also, they paid $115k for the southernmost lot in 2004.
“Then I’d invite sonies over to see what it feels like to dunk on a poisonous troll.”
you can’t dunk on this!
Please explain? other than the extra lot, why should this house be double the 1999 price? It should be at the 1999 price.
The house is a historic district, so you cannot tear it down, unfortunately.
“other than the extra lot, why should this house be double the 1999 price?”
$535+$115+ (CPI 99-11) = ~$880k.
Yeah, it gives them a little extra credit for the extra lot, but whatever. And the kitchen is newer, no?
Still, $1.2 seems like a wish.
If you can’t make it to the tour, you can see The Villa in this video slide show:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7DgxwDFHTk
Hard to understand what qualifies the area for landmark status.
“Yeah, it gives them a little extra credit for the extra lot, but whatever. And the kitchen is newer, no?
Still, $1.2 seems like a wish.”
So, really a question of whether someone values the land, no? Doesn’t seem like a million (or 0.9 million) dollar house and it’s not really. It’s really a half million dollar house (on a regular lot) plus an extra (or close to, or whatev) half million in land.
And I suppose I understand the complaint about above ground pools, but awfully nice with a kid in the summer (even nicer when you have good access to your nice neighbors’ pools).
anon(tfo) – garbage in, garbage out. Redo your calculation WITHOUT the CPI.
JZ – an entire neighborhood of architecturally significant craftsman homes on big lots mostly by the same set of architects dating from the early 20th century….no different than levittown, right?
“The house is a historic district, so you cannot tear it down, unfortunately.”
That’s fortunate, not unfortunate, for this neighborhood. Without that type of protection I’m sure it would’ve been marred with new construction that doesn’t fit in with the district’s character.
In the historic district, would you be able to build on the vacant lot?
“you can’t dunk on this!”
can, and will have Joe Zekas there to film it!!
homedelete,
Or should we call you homeworkdelete?
No individual property in the area is classified as architecturally significant according to the Chicago Landmarks Historic Resources Survey.
“Redo your calculation WITHOUT the CPI.”
Nope. Argue that the $535k was a bubble price (prolly was, given that the *04* (ie, clearly bubbly) price for a 25′ lot was only $115), if you like, but saying that housing tracks inflation is “garbage” is, itself, garbage.
Re: the pool. One of the only reasons I could ever see living out yonder in a SFH on a multiple city lots is to have a pool. This place has one. Sure, it’s above ground, but it’s a private pool. It would work for a while, then funds (and ground issues) permitting, put in an inground salt water pool. Having ample space in the house for a treadmill, coupled with a park-like yard and pool, would go along way towards making a house that’s far from the lake/prime parts of the city/private or test-in high school-dependent worth $1 million.
“other than the extra lot, why should this house be double the 1999 price? It should be at the 1999 price.”
so you are saying it should not appreciate even a tiny bit in 12 years? Or did you mean it should be closer to the 1999 price?
I’m in the office eating my lunch. are you in your pajamas surfing the internet?
I have court this afternoon and I will be gone. Will you still be in your pj’s posting links? do you get paid like .05 cents a link or something?
“Joe Zekas on September 14th, 2011 at 11:54 am
homedelete,
Or should we call you homeworkdelete?
No individual property in the area is classified as architecturally significant according to the Chicago Landmarks Historic Resources Survey.”
anonny if you make the salt water pool, can you please invite me over? I will bring good food and drinks : )
“so you are saying it should not appreciate even a tiny bit in 12 years”
He’s saying that it has *decreased* in value in the ensuing decade+.
“Please explain? other than the extra lot, why should this house be double the 1999 price? It should be at the 1999 price.”
Why? How do you know what they have or have not done in 12 years?
You all know my position, and everyday, yes, everyday, it’s fulfillment becomes obvious and apparent to those with open eyes.
Check out the ‘new new rules for real estate’ in this month’s chicago magazine. Check out the number of neighborhoods and suburbs that have had little if any housing appreciation nominally since 1994. Some bad areas have actually declined. some southern suburbs have increased only 1% since 1994 (midlothian) others have increased 2 or 3 times. But it’s all equalizing out. We routinely see homes sell before the 2004, 2003 and 2002 prices all over the city. The next leg down will bring us to 1999 prices.
Right, that’s what I was getting at – not so much someone would want to split it up, but just what all that land would cost. Obviously the price of this house is very much based on all of this extra land.
Not worth it for people obsessed with indoor square footage, but potentially a huge positive for people looking for some seclusion & landscaping who want to live somewhat close to downtown.
What will be interesting here is the supply/demand curve – there ain’t a whole lot of places you can buy in Chicago that are a connected four lots in a true residential area (not buying some big ass old factory on Milwaukee and lofting it or making it a McMansion, etc).
“So, really a question of whether someone values the land, no? Doesn’t seem like a million (or 0.9 million) dollar house and it’s not really. It’s really a half million dollar house (on a regular lot) plus an extra (or close to, or whatev) half million in land.”
Just yesterday we all learned (if you read the news) that real median income is at 1989 levels. I’ll let you figure out for yourselves how that factors in to home prices….
Your eyes may be open, but your vision is impaired by your crap-colored glasses, HD. The whole City is not going to hell in a handbasket, it just ain’t happening like that.
“You all know my position, and everyday, yes, everyday, it’s fulfillment becomes obvious and apparent to those with open eyes.”
yeah good thing homes are priced in real dollars right HD?
I suggest when you buy a house, put up your earnest money with gold bars, or perhaps bushels of wheat
“Just yesterday we all learned (if you read the news) that real median income is at 1989 levels. I’ll let you figure out for yourselves how that factors in to home prices….”
You have a lot to learn.
Nope not even close
“I suggest when you buy a house, put up your earnest money with gold bars, or perhaps bushels of wheat”
quote of the day!
Again, more like ‘getting closer every day’ as opposed to ‘not even close’.
THe world is NOT going to hell in a handbasket – that is called a strawman argument.
The 1999 price trend is welcomed by the younger generations, with their low wages, high student loan debt and the burdens of paying for those of the generations before us. this is a good thing.
“Vlajos on September 14th, 2011 at 12:29 pm
Nope not even close”
chucky, meet mish.
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/09/census-report-shows-poverty-rate-hits.html
“Real median income has been in decline since 1999 and is now back at a level last seen in 1996. Real median income is below the level seen in 1989.”
” real median income is at 1989 levels”
So, does that mean that *nominal* incomes are up or down? Do you buy things in *nominal* 1989 dollars or in *nominal* 2011 dollars?
“So, does that mean that *nominal* incomes are up or down? ”
Nominal incomes are up but prices have gone up more, making real incomes down, and lowering the standard of living for many people.
““Real median income has been in decline since 1999 and is now back at a level last seen in 1996. Real median income is below the level seen in 1989.””
COOL! Mish will sell me his assets for nominal 1989 prices!!!
Wait. Did someone say that Mish understnads the difference between nominal and real dollars? Can’t be, since he let HD quote him in a context that implies the opposite.
“chucky, meet mish.”
You are very confused.
“Nominal incomes are up but prices have gone up more”
Um, no, they haven’t, on average. Housing *YOU WANT* may have, but not “average” housing.
“Um, no, they haven’t, on average. Housing *YOU WANT* may have, but not “average” housing.”
Are you now denying the housing bubble applied to average housing? Were not bungalows selling in Albany Park for $500k in 2007? I know someone who paid that much.
Give it up, you’re not making any sense now.
“anon (tfo) on September 14th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
““Real median income has been in decline since 1999 and is now back at a level last seen in 1996. Real median income is below the level seen in 1989.””
COOL! Mish will sell me his assets for nominal 1989 prices!!!
Wait. Did someone say that Mish understnads the difference between nominal and real dollars? Can’t be, since he let HD quote him in a context that implies the opposite.\”
You know all long I’ve said nominal 1999 pricing.
“So, does that mean that *nominal* incomes are up or down? Do you buy things in *nominal* 1989 dollars or in *nominal* 2011 dollars?”
HD has a special time warp price machine.
“the housing bubble”
I’m not talking about 2007 prices. I don’t care about 2007 prices. 2007 prices haven’t applied for 4 years. We’re living in 2011.
“you’re not making any sense now”
You quote Mish about *REAL* dollars in a context that implies you are ignoring that everything is always priced in *NOMINAL* dollars–an obfuscation that Mish would pierce in a heartbeat.
“all long I’ve said nominal 1999 pricing”
And all along I’ve said that, as it applies to a house you and your wife would actually *want* to buy, and would *want* to live in as-is, I thought you were wrong.
You wnat to find a place that’s needs (at retail) $100k worth of work (to meet your desired standards) for ’99 nominal prices? Sure, you’ll find that. And, sure, you are actually quite likely to find a *distressed* sale in somewhat better condition than that at an even *lower* price, but you need to (1) get a bit lucky and (2) be ready to move quickly. But, in general, 70th+ percentile home, with minimal deferred maintenance, and no significant reno needed, in a regular market transaction, for a below ’99 *nominal* price? You may well find it, but it ain’t gonna be with lots of choices.
This is the only thing you’ve said that makes a lick of sense, but alas, it’s just one lick.
Chicago property functions due to laws of supply and demand – an entire younger generation doesn’t need to want/afford to buy here, just people from Chicagoland and our “feeder” cities.
I & most folks I talk see largely the same old-same old, people with more desirable properties (ie, not tear-downs or sales based on urgent matters like a job transfer, divorce, etc) are just staying put, it’s the glut of condos and crapshacks that are really out there dragging down the market.
This place is a pretty serious rarity in this market – I will definitely be intrigued as to what it goes for, I certainly don’t see it dropping much below $1m.
“The 1999 price trend is welcomed by the younger generations, with their low wages, high student loan debt and the burdens of paying for those of the generations before us. this is a good thing.”
…LOL. as is often the case, anon (tfo) fleshes out my simul-posting very nicely. kudos.
“And all along I’ve said that, as it applies to a house you and your wife would actually *want* to buy, and would *want* to live in as-is, I thought you were wrong.
You wnat to find a place that’s needs (at retail) $100k worth of work (to meet your desired standards) for ‘99 nominal prices? Sure, you’ll find that. And, sure, you are actually quite likely to find a *distressed* sale in somewhat better condition than that at an even *lower* price, but you need to (1) get a bit lucky and (2) be ready to move quickly. But, in general, 70th+ percentile home, with minimal deferred maintenance, and no significant reno needed, in a regular market transaction, for a below ‘99 *nominal* price? You may well find it, but it ain’t gonna be with lots of choices.”
HD- I suggest you attempt paying for your next house with a 1999 MSFT, CSCO, and INTC stock certificate
Sonies on September 14th, 2011 at 1:13 pm
HD- I suggest you attempt paying for your next house with a 1999 MSFT, CSCO, and INTC stock certificate
OWNED!
I have a different, albeit biased, perspective. Yesterday I had three clients, all of whom earned at or in excess of $100,000, who were current on their mortgage but are ready to walk-away. That’s just three in one day, and I’m just one lawyer who provides debt counseling to very small niche and subset of people in Chicago. They’re in debt, they’re underwater, and they’re floating but want to cave, so they do. They’ve already made their decision, I’m just helping them avoid liability. My subset of people tends to be in the far suburbs or the south and west sides of the city. But I went to dinner with my cousin in the NW suburbs who also decided to walk away from his $300,000 house in palatine. Just today I spoke with a client in skokie who has been living there since 2008! with no payment on the mortgage and he was just denied the loan mod. All day, everyday, I do this, to the exclusion of all the other legal work I used to do. It is consuming me alive. I’m here for 11 or 12 hours a day, 5 days a week. The endless line of people in this position stretches on into infinity.
“But, in general, 70th+ percentile home, with minimal deferred maintenance, and no significant reno needed, in a regular market transaction, for a below ‘99 *nominal* price? You may well find it, but it ain’t gonna be with lots of choices.”
You people just don’t understand what’s going on out there. DQ’s are still at elevated levels – and they just took a uptick a few weeks ago. The banks are working through the forelcosures at a slower pace, just as more people are going DQ and walking away. They’re being denied loan mods right and left. It’s absurd. Just because you don’t see it….
Ok, but that’s your job, so that’s all you see.
I went to dinner this weekend with 4 couples that all pay their mortgage. Which “random sample” is correct?
“Ok, but that’s your job, so that’s all you see.”
I work with computers. Everyone that called me yesterday had a problem with their computers. Computers must not work.
It’s more than just what I see – it’s what you don’t see.
Behind everyone of those DQ stats is a real person walking away. Those stats are just abstract numbers – so large that you dno’t really process them. 400,000 claims for UE every week is a neighbor, an aunt, a relative, or a spouse. The 25% of the country with mortgages who have negative equity is a real stat – in some places, most homes are newer or changed hands 2000-2008, and therefore, most are underwater. That’s your uncle, your boss or even your neighbor. It’s a disaster out there. The foreclosures are building up in the pipeline like a dam. God only knows if and when they’ll trickle on the market. Damn right they effect comps, in all neighborhoods, even the very best areas.
“Vlajos on September 14th, 2011 at 1:27 pm
Ok, but that’s your job, so that’s all you see.”
“I’m here for 11 or 12 hours a day, 5 days a week. The endless line of people in this position stretches on into infinity.”
I guess the silver lining is that you’re either a lock for partner any day now or, when you hang a shingle, you’ll have plenty of business.
You obviously did not take a logic class in college; and your application of your analogy is flawed too.
“chukdotcom on September 14th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
“Ok, but that’s your job, so that’s all you see.”
I work with computers. Everyone that called me yesterday had a problem with their computers. Computers must not work.”
That’s an entirely different issue for a different internet forum…
“anonny on September 14th, 2011 at 1:32 pm
“I’m here for 11 or 12 hours a day, 5 days a week. The endless line of people in this position stretches on into infinity.”
I guess the silver lining is that you’re either a lock for partner any day now or, when you hang a shingle, you’ll have plenty of business.”
“You people just don’t understand what’s going on out there.”
Does a *single* one of them live in a home, in a location, that you would buy tomorrow for the 1999 *nominal* price? Any of them?
And, to be clear, my “70th percentile” concept is that, in a straight up house trade, in a fantasy world where you take your *current* mortgage along to the new house (but pay the taxes, etc, of the new house), 70% of metro area housing units you’d say “no deal” and 30% you’d say “you betcha!”.
“I have a different, albeit biased, perspective. Yesterday I had three clients, all of whom earned at or in excess of $100,000 a year of passive income, who were current on their mortgage and are not planning on walking away. That’s just three in one day, and I’m just one person who provides wealth counseling to very small niche and subset of people in Chicago. They’re in the money, they’re floating and have no intentions to cave, so they don’t. They’ve already made their decision, I’m just helping them create assets. My subset of people tends to be in the far suburbs or the North and east sides of the city. But I went to dinner with my cousin in the SE suburbs who also decided to buy another $300,000 house in Michigan. Just today I spoke with a client in Northbrook who has been living there since 2008! With every payment on the mortgage made and he was just denied a HELOC to buy a boat! All day, everyday, I do this, It is consuming me alive, money is a hell of a drug! I’m here for 6 or 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. The endless line of people in this position stretches on into infinity, as my clientele are extremely happy with my services. “
You’re absolutely right sonies, and those people, just like you are oblivious or in denial about the rest of the market.
HD, has anyone denied that there’s a problem? You would have probably commited suicide during the depression.
Like I said most of the people I meet, due to nature of my clients, are not from the 30% areas. But the price declines, generational low sales figures and underwater %’s are there too.
Unless of course you believe the steve heitman theory of “it’s different in the 30% areas” which might be true to some extent as teh middle class becomes hollowed out.
“Does a *single* one of them live in a home, in a location, that you would buy tomorrow for the 1999 *nominal* price? Any of them?”
I probably would have thrived though the depression.
No one has denied there is a problem; but this is more than a problem. it’s endemic.
“Vlajos on September 14th, 2011 at 1:45 pm
HD, has anyone denied that there’s a problem? You would have probably commited suicide during the depression.”
Okayy. HD. Are banks taking steps to make it harder for people who haven’t already walked away to do so?
Right. Again, everybody understands it’s brutal out there as far as the job market, HD.
But there’s brutal “big picture” and then there’s brutal “I still gotta find a place to live in Chicago.”
The vast majority of people aren’t shortsighted enough to screw up their credit for eternity by walking away from a mortgage.
“Does a *single* one of them live in a home, in a location, that you would buy tomorrow for the 1999 *nominal* price? Any of them?”
Interesting/topical:
http://www.wbez.org/episode-segments/2011-09-14/dennis-rodkin-updates-rulebook-real-estate-chicago-91963
“Hard to understand what qualifies the area for landmark status.”
“No individual property in the area is classified as architecturally significant according to the Chicago Landmarks Historic Resources Survey.”
Neighborhood integrity and continuity amongst a much larger area that lacks any true cohesion is cause enough for the district, similar to the Newport Ave historic district in Lakeview. Only five of those buildings by themselves are considered architecturally significant, but the sheer volume and continuity of late 19th century buildings on the block prompted the historic district protection.
” just like you are oblivious or in denial about the rest of the market.”
???
I’ll be the first to admit that the real estate market blows right now
“I probably would have thrived though the depression. ”
remember, the FDIC didn’t exist back then, so a huge majority of your CD’s would have been worth zero…
And unemployment doesn’t suck unless you’re uneducated or under 19 years old. I will show you proof, but I did that in another thread a few days ago. Are uneducated or under 19 people buying homes? for the most part, nope!
“remember, the FDIC didn’t exist back then, so a huge majority of your CD’s would have been worth zero…”
MY money is in gold bullion and vodka buried in the forest preserve along the north branch trail.
“And unemployment doesn’t suck unless you’re uneducated or under 19 years old. I will show you proof, but I did that in another thread a few days ago. Are uneducated or under 19 people buying homes? for the most part, nope!”
Not college educated, yes, which comprises a majority of the US population, of course.
HD… In fifteen years you are going to be thinking. I could have fixed my pmt on a place I really would have loved… Then you will be getting a call from your landlord, telling you that you are going to be evicted, if you don’t stop sending in payments with an explanation of why it’s in 1989 real dollars.
hhaha. too bad taxes and insurance will go up, even though the PI payment is fixed.
“gringozecarioca on September 14th, 2011 at 2:20 pm
HD… In fifteen years you are going to be thinking. I could have fixed my pmt on a place I really would have loved… Then you will be getting a call from your landlord, telling you that you are going to be evicted, if you don’t stop sending in payments with an explanation of why it’s in 1989 real dollars.
“
“if you don’t stop sending in payments with an explanation of why it’s in 1989 real dollars.”
As long as it is all in twenties with Jim Baker’s signatures on them, right?
But landlord, this stack of 100 Faith No More CD’s was worth $1500 in 1989!!!! I am overpaying my rent!
I would definitely take a 10 perecnt discount on anything anyone ever wished to pay for in Kennedy dollars. Those were cool.
So now were in 1999 pricing?
You can sit on the sidelines all day. Get in the game and buy some real estate.
“You can sit on the sidelines all day. Get in the game and buy some real estate.”
Nah. That just invites a conditioned response.
If HD is holding out til he finds *A* house he likes in decent condition for the ’99 price, there’s no problem–his horizons are broad enough that that *will* happen, and quite possible fairly soon.
If he’s holding out til case-shiller dips below 100 in Chicago, that may well happen.
If he’s holding out til the portion of the market that he’s interested in, and is in good condition, and is being sold on open market terms is generally selling at or below ’99 nominal prices, he may well wait forever.
“If HD is holding out til he finds *A* house he likes in decent condition for the ‘99 price, there’s no problem–his horizons are broad enough that that *will* happen, and quite possible fairly soon. ”
no it won’t because those get “scooped up” within weeks of listing
Hahaha. Your faith in the real estate market is misplaced.
“If he’s holding out til the portion of the market that he’s
interested in, and is in good condition, and is being sold on open market terms is generally selling at or below ‘99 nominal prices, he may well wait forever.”
“Hahaha. Your faith in the real estate market is misplaced. ”
Your faith in a deflationary spiral is also misplaced. One year of 10% inflation, and your dream is f’d.
ps: Bob wil be so thrilled that his pal, negatron HD, has returned.
“If HD is holding out til he finds *A* house he likes in decent condition for the ‘99 price, there’s no problem–his horizons are broad enough that that *will* happen, and quite possible fairly soon.”
That is the problem. He won’t do this, he doesn’t want to be pressured, etc. He won’t take advantage of the fact taht he has spent a lot of time researching and should be able to make a decision quickly. Instead, he may well wait forever. Which, HD, is not saying you definitely will wait forever, just that you surely should think realistically about the possibility of this world you hope for never coming to pass. If you truly are committed to your strategy, it’s a bit (only a bit) of a bet the company kinda thing.
“ps: Bob wil be so thrilled that his pal, negatron HD, has returned.”
Yes, is quite sweet.
“One year of 10% inflation, and your dream is f’d.”
I’m curious as to when you expect this to occur?
“I’m curious as to when you expect this to occur?”
“expect”? Enh. “could” is a non-negligible risk to occur prior to HD is actually ready to buy. ‘course, “end of the world” also has at least “black swan” probability over that sort of time frame.
In the meantime, rates and prices continue to decline…
I thought Case Schiller has risen three months in a row.
At that price, a homebuyer can have a move-in ready River Forest house w/in-ground pool, great curbside appearance, quality vintage masonry construction, updated quality kitchen and bathrooms, and a great public school system. Commute unlikely to be longer to downtown or corporate parks in burbs.
What does River Forest have to with this?
“I thought Case Schiller has risen three months in a row.”
It’s only 2 so far for this dead cat. It rose 5 consecutive months in 2009, and what did that get us except incorrect bottom calls and more knife-catchers? Besides, did someone say the correction would be linear? Relax, give it a few years – then you will see.
“Which, HD, is not saying you definitely will wait forever, just that you surely should think realistically about the possibility of this world you hope for never coming to pass. If you truly are committed to your strategy, it’s a bit (only a bit) of a bet the company kinda thing.”
Not quite there are a couple of extenuating circumstances involved right now delaying the home purchase; a combination of reducing student loans, cash flow, lower prices in the future, price reductions on the house I’m interested in, larger down payment, etc; trying to engineer my $1,600 a month payment for a 3/2 on a double lot somewhere on the far NW side of chicago or in a close in suburb. It’s almost there, the stars have almost aligned…
You see, it’s just a big puzzle. It’s how I see litigation or handling a large case with many compenents. You control all these little pieces here and there, and as long as you focus on the details without missing the bigger picture, you usually end up with a pretty damn good result. That’s more or less exactly what I’m doing here.
I really thought HD had bought the other vintage home in the Villa that was featured here and sold a few months ago.
“trying to engineer my $1,600 a month payment”
So, an approximately $200k mortgage in the city, or about $180k in the ‘burbs.
And assuming no op-cost of funds on the DP.
“I really thought HD had bought the other vintage home in the Villa that was featured here and sold a few months ago.”
That was a (disclosed later) misdirection, but he just can’t maintain a charade that significant for any extended period.
The wife doesn’t like the Villa.
“I really thought HD had bought the other vintage home in the Villa that was featured here and sold a few months ago.”
Ok, I’ll bite – what doesn’t your wife like about the Villa, HD? Seems pretty nice to me.
skeptic: 1) elementary school sucks (reilly); 2) she’s not a fan of arts & crafts; 3) the homes look a little run down
“If he’s holding out til the portion of the market that he’s interested in, and is in good condition, and is being sold on open market terms is generally selling at or below ‘99 nominal prices, he may well wait forever.”
No problem. Tons more foreclosed homes still to come on the market over the next 12 months.
“Bank of America is ramping up its foreclosure processing, sending out far more notices of default to borrowers in August than in previous months, well over 200 percent more month-to-month.”
http://www.cnbc.com/id/44503938
get rid of #2 and you’re describing a hefty slice of Chicago – as in, most of it. tough critic.
“1) elementary school sucks (reilly); 2) she’s not a fan of arts & crafts; 3) the homes look a little run down”
10 percent inflation… Wouldn’t even raise my eyebrow. Part of my global wage arbitrage theory includes america losing pricing control to global demand. It’s comin… Be patient. GM couldn’t sneeze without givin the world a cold.. Now it has AIDS and means nothin. 10 percent is unfamiliar, but no way is it an improbable occurance.
“Tons more foreclosed homes still to come on the market ”
Open market terms and good condition mean something. And that something is rather rare in REO.
“10 percent is unfamiliar, but no way is it an improbable occurance.”
You know where I stand on that. Predicting *when* is a problem, but HD is *clearly* predicting it won’t happen before he buys.
“Part of my global wage arbitrage theory includes america losing pricing control to global demand.”
It doesn’t seem to me that inflation would inflate housing prices in the US. Wages falling won’t help house prices. Higher interest rates won’t help house prices (defintely without wage inflation.) Prices rising on things we compete with the world over means less to spend on things we don’t – like housing (until inflation sufficiently affects scrap value, that is.)
“You know where I stand on that. Predicting *when* is a problem, but HD is *clearly* predicting it won’t happen before he buys.”
And there’s no rush since it ain’t happening this year or next. Do you see it as a possibility in that time, or is this more a statement on your opinion of HD’s pre-buyer’s remorse?
“Open market terms and good condition mean something. And that something is rather rare in REO.”
That isn’t my impression of GZ REO, and they are doing nothing but increasing.
I think HD should just continue to rent. I think buying is too stressful for him, and I’d be afraid that even if he bought a place which fulfilled his unicorn criteria he’d be constantly second-guessing himself and wondering if he timed his buy at the absolute bottom of the market, and I wouldn’t want him to be unhappy. That would just be depressing if he could not enjoy his home.
I have plans people I have plans…
I have no idea about HD’s happiness or satisfaction with his decisions, but I don’t think he cares about hitting the “absolute” bottom – then again, I don’t even know what that means. Is that what a new bottom is called by previous bottom callers?
Haha, G! I know what you’re referring to. I still say the bottom was December 31st 2010. Definitely in what I was looking for which was a distressed property under 100K anywhere reasonably safe with good public transportation on the North or West Sides. Just from anecdotal evidence inventory is now is much lower, plus after Christmas hordes of investors came out of the woodwork. Properties which would languish on the MLS are in multiple bid situations and in contract in days. Sometimes on the same day. Plus there are rumors going around that banks are not as negotiable on short sales and are trying to get as much equity as they can out of them.
I’m seeing less stuff available in areas where I’d actually live, in decent repair and in buildings with intact HOAs. There was much more to choose from back in 2009.
I’m also seeing more properties pulled off the market when the sellers don’t get their price.
“And there’s no rush since it ain’t happening this year or next. Do you see it as a possibility in that time, or is this more a statement on your opinion of HD’s pre-buyer’s remorse?”
It’s always “year after next”, so so long as that continues, the risk increases.
“That isn’t my impression of GZ REO, and they are doing nothing but increasing”
HD ain’t shopping the GZ.
Not trying to get rock bottom. Just trying to get fmv. And pay a price that will work until kids graduate high school.
“And pay a price that will work until kids graduate high school.”
And you want to buy (“only”) a 3/2 house? Really?
Kindergarten anon(tfo), that’s the time I’ve got, not year after year. Thank god the stars aligned and k starts in a few years rather than a few years ago. Timing is everything.
Keep talking your book, Milkster. Funny stuff.
Why do I need more than that? I’m a modest and not flashy guy, in this particular line of business, I can’t be. 3 beds, 1 or 2 kids, finished basement. 1800 sq ft. Plently ok for me.
“Why do I need more than that?”
Home office, my friend. Want someplace to work at home that’s not the kitchen table and that you can keep the kids out of.
Yeah, that’s right G, cuz we’re neighbors now! Get used to it! I’m here 🙂
That is an issue I’m working on.
“3 beds, 1 or 2 kids, finished basement. 1800 sq ft. Plently ok for me.”
I’m kinda with you, but 1 v 2 kids (and gender of 2 kids) is a big factor. Also, as you are surely aware, if you just have 1 kid, getting into something in CPS through testing/magnet/lottery is a lot more feasible and practical. So you could wait and see how that works. If you got kid into a good school then neighborhood elem wouldn’t matter.
“Home office”
What’s wrong with a laptop on the bed?
“What’s wrong with a laptop on the bed?”
At 2pm, in the middle of three hours, when you’re working from home b/t morning meeting and pm court date in Skokie or wherever? Not talking about for checking and responding to a couple emails.
Also, makes it hell to claim a biz deduction for it. I’m planning on HD either being a partner or hanging out a shingle sometime bt now and his 2d kid graduating HS.
“What’s wrong with a laptop on the bed?”
Hah! That describes my hjome “office” perfectly. Maybe the lawyers among us have a lot of hard copy files to work with?
“Yeah, that’s right G, cuz we’re neighbors now! Get used to it! I’m here”
You obviously have me mistaken for someone else.
“You obviously have me mistaken for someone else.”
The grumpy, old, mean guy?
Just keep off the goddamn lawn, sweetie!
“Maybe the lawyers among us have a lot of hard copy files to work with?”
I suppose, but I’d hate to have to keep paper files at home. I mostly use electronic files but sometimes will print out a bunch to take home. But I don’t want to have to file them.
I do have one lawyer relative who always goes into the office to work if he has to work on weekends. Don’t really understand it, maybe it’s to get away from the family.
“At 2pm, in the middle of three hours, when you’re working from home b/t morning meeting and pm court date in Skokie or wherever? Not talking about for checking and responding to a couple emails.”
I dunno, I’ll happily work for a half day on the bed. Easier to nap. I do have a larger monitor that is sometimes useful but mostly I’m happy with the laptop (and I have a v small one at that).
G, agree on all points…
Btw.. The nicholas cage fudgesicle story.. Where’s groove? Really need him right now… Possibly the funniest thing ever.
“I think HD should just continue to rent….if he bought a place which fulfilled his unicorn criteria he’d be constantly second-guessing himself and wondering if he timed his buy at the absolute bottom of the market.”
I bought a grill at Costco, end of season. All summer best price i could find was $300+ but Costco had them for $199 so I grabbed it. Two weeks later I heard about places that dropped the same grill to $150.
Now I saw the lower price advertised at Target but they were out of grills and a neighbor told me that Costco was selling them for $150, which didn’t seem likely since their inventory at the $200 pricepoint sold out quickly.
The point is that I never actually found the grill I wanted for $150. I did find the grill I wanted at a price i was confortable with and could afford. Yeah I might have overpaid by 25% but I had my grill for two additional summer weeks of grilling and still saved $33% off the initial price (if I’m doing that math correct).
a 25% difference in the price of a house + interest on that 25% over 30 years is the cost of a college education, or two. The your overpayment on the price of the grill won’t feed a family of four at Chief O’Neils.
“The point is that I never actually found the grill I wanted for $150. I did find the grill I wanted at a price i was confortable with and could afford. Yeah I might have overpaid by 25% but I had my grill for two additional summer weeks of grilling and still saved $33% off the initial price (if I’m doing that math correct).”
Plus Icarus, even if you had bought the grill at the full $300 price, there’s the cost opportunity to that, that you get to grill all summer as opposed to just at the very end of the season.
@Milkster and HD, yeah I wasn’t really trying to pursuade you…i just wanted to talk about my grill 😀
In the case of the grill, I had to find the balance between making do with my existing grill until I found one at a price I liked, or missing out as inventory evapporated until next spring when new models come out at full price. Since I grill all year long and my old one was on its last burner, it made sense for me to pull the trigger.
There are very few homes I would pay an extra $25% for…after all, I am a cheap Pole doncha know.
Icarus, your condo sounds pretty sweet with enough outdoor space to grill.
an absolute bottom IS HD. or power bottom
what is the nic cage fudgesicle story?
You just can’t help yourself with the homoerotic euphemisms, you just can’t.
“Bob on September 15th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
an absolute bottom IS HD. or power bottom”
http://www.wwtdd.com/2011/09/burglars-stole-and-ate-nic-cages-fudgesicle/
homedelete on September 15th, 2011 at 9:36 am
Why do I need more than that? I’m a modest and not flashy guy, in this particular line of business, I can’t be. 3 beds, 1 or 2 kids, finished basement. 1800 sq ft. Plently ok for me.
———-
Sounds like Niles to me!
“Sounds like Niles to me!”
Sounds like the NW side to me.
Hell, there are plenty of places I would like to live, but due to hosing costs (that’s not a typo), the economic laws of hedonics apply. seriously, to live in the GZ in a SFH it requires a jumbo mortgage, and unlike some people, I abhor debt, and the idea of a jumbo mortgage, regardless of my income (within reason) make me want to PUKE. I’ll take a smaller house rather than a jumbo loan anyday.
i’m a freak, i know. i don’t care.
@Milkster, thank you. It does have a nice sized deck, fireplace and separate dining room. Those were my unicorn criteria years ago, only i gave up parking to make it happen within my budget.
thanks hd
Ic, maybe you should host the 2011, cc holiday soiree
As a Villa homeowner for the past 10 years, I admit I initially had to be dragged out of Lincoln Park but now cannot imagine living anywhere else in the city. The lack of density (guests can park right in front of your home!), the greenspace, the proximity to public transportation/the Expressway/O’Hare, the relative home value, and the close-knit community are great. Living in an older home with tons of character (and upkeep) isn’t everyone’s cup of tea but to be a part of Chicago’s history is neat. Come out for the tour this weekend and see for yourself — in addition to the architecture and history, you’ll get to see some private yards and an interior of one of the homes.
hd- i suggest you spend more time at palatinebound.com
“it requires a jumbo mortgage, and unlike some people, I abhor debt, and the idea of a jumbo mortgage, regardless of my income”
HD, do you really abhor it more based on the arbitrary dollar amount designated for this particular region? Would a $600k loan trouble you less in, say, CA, where it wouldn’t be a jumbo?
Again, you plan to live in the SFH that you’ll (someday) purchase for what, 15 years? 30 years? Sure, you may encounter a career setback in a few years, and you have a deeply held distaste for debt. But it sounds like you’re nearly a decade into a legal career and you’ve developed some solid skills – such that you should expect to continue to earn more and more over the course of your career, overall. And the difference in “quality” (location/size/condition) of a SFH you could buy right now by borrowing an extra $100-200k is so incredibly tremendous. Your SFH will be the place you’ll spend the vast majority of your non-working life over the bulk of your career and it will be the existence (i.e., the home, community, school and peers) that your kids will know until they go to college and/or strike out on their own. When you’re packing the kids up for college someday, or when you put the place on the market to move to a highrise or a beachfront retirement community or whatever, spending (borrowing) $100-$200k more today might mean the difference in you looking back and saying, “this has been a perfectly decent place to live all these years” vs. “this has been a pretty amazing place to live all these years.”
maybe hd isnt the kind of person who would ever get that pumped about the place he lived. I’m probably not either and unless I lived in ricky shroeders place from silver spoons I have a hard time imagining something like that coming out of my mouth. at least not due to the place itself, more the amazing times I had there with family/friends etc. and an ok yard and grill would make most of those happen.
oh, and a full basketball court. or go cart track.
“maybe hd isnt the kind of person who would ever get that pumped about the place he lived.”
of course not, he’s a lawyer, he lives at the office
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3632-N-Harding-Ave-60618/home/13457498
$350,000
I’ll admit I was way off on the final selling sell, but then again, to me, this buyer is a knife catcher…a very similar four square home across the street is a short sale under contract at $350,000….that came up a day after this one went under contract…
Relisted with a $140k price cut down to 1.05M.