Is This Vintage 2/2 the Best Deal in East Lakeview? 521 W. Surf
A few years ago, I used to get e-mails from first time homebuyers desperate to buy a 2/2 for under $300,000 anywhere in Lakeview.
Flash forward, and now buyers can get a 1700 square foot top floor 2/2 like this one at 521 W. Surf in East Lakeview for under $300,000.
It has all the features buyers look for (and which are rare in vintage units, especially in East Lakeview), including central air, washer/dryer in the unit and not just one but two parking spots (it sounds like it is an especially long space that can fit two cars tandem.)
The building was built in 1906 and has 26 units.
The unit still has some of its vintage features including built-ins, a wood burning fireplace, a beamed dining room ceiling and a pier mirror in the foyer.
The kitchen is eat-in and has white cabinets and appliances.
Originally listed for $395,000 in April 2011, it has been reduced $96,000 to $299,000.
That is also $76,000 under the 2001 purchase price which was $375,000.
Is this a deal for the square footage and location or just another sign of the times?
Robin Miner at @Properties has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #3: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1700 square feet
- Sold in January 1993 for $174,000
- Sold in December 1994 for $225,000
- Sold in September 1997 for $253,500
- Sold in July 2001 for $375,000
- Originally listed in April 2011 for $395,000
- Reduced several times
- Lis pendens foreclosure filed in September 2011
- Currently listed at $299,000 (includes the parking)
- Assessments of $477 a month (includes heat, cable)
- Taxes of $4982
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Bedroom #1: 14×14
- Bedroom #2: 13×12
the good ol’ days when people would just RENT these, i guess dey aints comin back
Nice beams..that kitchen needs to be gutted immediately
Live in a 2/2 for 10 years and lose 20%. Typical.
What is the general consensus on when the boom and the bust began? I thought 2001 was pre-boom?
I think does look to be a pretty good deal. The kitchen could use some help, but it is definitely serviceable and the woodwork is beautiful. The question is whether the owner has enough equity to actually sell at this price, or whether this would have to be a short sale. If it’s a short sale, it won’t be as fast a sale for sure…
“What is the general consensus on when the boom and the bust began? I thought 2001 was pre-boom?”
I say boom started around 98/99, but it was very small compared to 2003 and up.
prob isn’t that the kitchen needs reno, it’s that it will be a little pricey given the current layout, plumbing, and doors.
high taxes notwithstanding, seems like a decent but not great deal if it really has 2 parking spots.
“Live in a 2/2 for 10 years and lose 20%. Typical.” Well, it went back to the bank, so they’re not the ones bringing cash to the table. And in any case, how much would rent have been for those 10 years? How does that compare to int/tax/ass?
Is that 375 accurate for 01? Seems very high.
“the good ol’ days when people would just RENT these, i guess dey aints comin back”
Exactly. Looks ok and is spacious, and the parking is nice, but it’s just another creaky old apartment building with wood stairwells and no soundproofing. With 20% down the monthly payment would still be $2,000. Not something I would want to be obligated to pay on for the next 30 years; especially if you have noisy neighbors.
oh, missed that this isn’t reo yet.
“Well, it went back to the bank, so they’re not the ones bringing cash to the table.”
Filed doesn’t mean the bank has taken it yet.
“Is that 375 accurate for 01? Seems very high.”
Mortgage in 10/01 for $356,250…so looks accurate.
“The question is whether the owner has enough equity to actually sell at this price”
Mortgages taken out in in 8/03 totaling $443,375 so I am doubtful that there is enough equity to sell at $299 without bringing money to closing which I would think is unlikely considering the foreclosure filing. If it then is a short sale (which the realtor shouldn’t be hiding) will the bank accept $299?
“I say boom started around 98/99, but it was very small compared to 2003 and up.”
2d. And, had it followed prior boom/bust cycles, 02/03 would have been the peak and we’d have started another upswing by now.
“prob isn’t that the kitchen needs reno, it’s that it will be a little pricey given the current layout, plumbing, and doors.”
Kitchen needs tile, counters, and nicer appliances, only, unless those cabinets are especially crappy.
“high taxes notwithstanding”
What do you think taxes should be for a place that sold for $375k in 2001? Compared to mine (taxes/[assumed]AV), the taxes are *low*.
I think $225 is a good number for this place, plus $25 for each parking spot for a total of $275,000. The kitchen isn’t that bad, the cabinets are fine just put granite counters and put in stainless hardware to match new stainless appliances. I love the living room with the fire place and built in book shelves.
If the bedrooms are small (the size isn’t posted) or the bathrooms are awful this number should go down. The other rooms look to be pretty spacious for a 2/2.
“If the bedrooms are small (the size isn’t posted)”
In the post:
•Bedroom #1: 14×14
•Bedroom #2: 13×12
i would not want to put up with the kitchen layout as currently constituted, with the counter space all broken up into small segments.
Great comp is 431 Oakdale. Just sold for $235,900. Nice job SoPoCo and anon(tfo) guessing $240.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/431-W-Oakdale-Ave-60657/unit-6A/home/13371969
http://cribchatter.com/?p=11604
I didn’t catch the 1700 sq. feet the first time. (Or the room sizes.) To me, a unit that big is not your typical 2/2. Someone could live in this for 10 years and not go stir crazy.
“i would not want to put up with the kitchen layout as currently constituted, with the counter space all broken up into small segments.”
First world problems. At least if it’s really 1700 sf, and goes for ~10% off ask (ie ~$160 psf).
I’m not seeing 1700sf here.
From Redfin it is 1190+baths+hallway+closet. My guess is they are adding the storage room and deck into the sq. ft. just like they aren’t saying that it is a short sale.
Nice vintage features but wood surfaces need work, including floors and detailing. Kitchen has issues that will likely remain unless utilities are moved — can anyone tell me where the dishwasher is located and why two egress doors? A floorplan would be nice here. Does not appear much has been done since 2001 purchase.
Room sizes are generous, taxes and assessments not out of line (heat included is the key phrase), though I see both ducting and radiators. Top floor is bonus unless you think the el is too far. Close to the lake but far from hwy access–better for a loop commuter for sure.
Obvious sq ft. inflation and only one bathroom photo demand all listing facts be verified, and suggest the agent won’t be helpful in a short sale process. In normal times, this would be a “wait and see” and let the bank take it back. Might be worth a lowball play to the lender, as the unit appers to be better than much of the current inventory. $250-270K.
Here’s the question: does the association pay to plow the parking which benefits only a few of the units?
Rick, there is a floorplan on Redfin although depending on your eyesight you may need a magnifying glass/microscope.
“Here’s the question: does the association pay to plow the parking which benefits only a few of the units?”
If you only go out the front door of a building- but not the back- but other condo owners go out the back but not the front- should you have to pay to have the back door shoveled even though you don’t use it? If you have a rooftop pool or a club room and you don’t ever use it- does that mean you shouldn’t pay for it in an assessment?
Are the garbage bins back near the parking lot? I haven’t been to the back of this building. If they are- then the condo association is probably plowing back there to make sure the garbage collectors can get in. A parking lot would still be considered a “common area” for a condo building. I’ve never heard that you didn’t have to pay to have it plowed (as part of your fees) just because you don’t have a car there.
“From Redfin it is 1190+baths+hallway+closet. My guess is they are adding the storage room and deck into the sq. ft. just like they aren’t saying that it is a short sale.”
Redfin? Really? Please don’t trust the numbers on public real estate websites (that aren’t provided by the realtors.)
This is a 2/2 with a dining room, an eat-in kitchen and a long hallway that goes the length of the unit (plus foyer.) You really have NO idea so why are you speculating?
“EB (December 5, 2011, 3:57 pm)
Great comp is 431 Oakdale. Just sold for $235,900. Nice job SoPoCo and anon(tfo) guessing $240.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/431-W-Oakdale-Ave-60657/unit-6A/home/13371969
http://cribchatter.com/?p=11604
I didn’t catch the 1700 sq. feet the first time. (Or the room sizes.) To me, a unit that big is not your typical 2/2. Someone could live in this for 10 years and not go stir crazy.”
except the unit at 431 oakdale didnt have 2 parking spots, central air, in-unit w/d, and it has an $800 assessment……so…..not really a good comp AT ALL.
“Redfin? Really? Please don’t trust the numbers on public real estate websites (that aren’t provided by the realtors.)”
Aren’t the room dimensions on Redfin provided by the listing agent? I don’t think the space is small at all, but having added up the room dimensions on the listing I was surprised that it didn’t come closer to the 1700 number in the description. I thought adding up the rooms would come close and show it was 1700 sq. ft. not only add up to 1190. Maybe the baths and halls do add another 500. More likely they added in the storage, espeically since it is listed as a room.
Studied the floorplan on Redfin, and can only find one bathroom. It is located far from the bedrooms, past the dining room, accessible only through the kitchen. Another layout fault for entertaining is the long distance between the living room & dining room.
Unless maybe that is a really long skinny bathroom wedged into the corner of the hallway next to the dining room.
“Nice job SoPoCo and anon(tfo) guessing $240.”
Can’t take credit, I was just quoted SoPo[or]Co.
“Unless maybe that is a really long skinny bathroom wedged into the corner of the hallway next to the dining room.”
*this*.
“This is a 2/2 with a dining room, an eat-in kitchen and a long hallway that goes the length of the unit (plus foyer.) You really have NO idea so why are you speculating?”
Semi-informed speculation, based on the tiny floorplan, x-ref’d with the listed room sizes: place is ~21′ wide, on average, and ~73′ long. =~1550. Unclear on how they bump that up 10%.
“Redfin? Really? Please don’t trust the numbers on public real estate websites (that aren’t provided by the realtors.)
This is a 2/2 with a dining room, an eat-in kitchen and a long hallway that goes the length of the unit (plus foyer.) You really have NO idea so why are you speculating?”
Those calculations come from the floor plan that was PROVIDED BY THE REALTOR AS A PHOTO WHEN THE PROPERTY WAS LISTED IN THE MLS. And it’s got measurements, which are probably rounded up anyway. Why are you so defensive about someone pointing out obviously false and arguably fraudulent information? If you think that Redfin is so untrustworthy, why do you usually link there?
“Those calculations come from the floor plan that was PROVIDED BY THE REALTOR AS A PHOTO WHEN THE PROPERTY WAS LISTED IN THE MLS. And it’s got measurements, which are probably rounded up anyway. Why are you so defensive about someone pointing out obviously false and arguably fraudulent information? If you think that Redfin is so untrustworthy, why do you usually link there?”
I thought he was referring to the square footage that is provided in the redfin link along with the tax info. It usually isn’t even close to being right. You can’t rely on that (the same way you can’t rely on the PIN numbers which are only correct about 85% of the time. That’s not redfin’s fault as the agent puts it in.)
The agent DID provide the square footage here. The square footage is usually provided from the floorplan/original sale and just used over and over. You can’t just add up the room sizes and say “gee- it doesn’t match.” You have NO IDEA about the closets, the hallways, what looks to be a very large foyer (from the pictures and the floorplan) or the bathroom sizes. So unless you KNOW it isn’t 1700 square feet (because you’ve been in it)- stop attacking the real estate agent.
That’s all I’m saying.
By the way- the negativity on this site in recent weeks is the worst I’ve seen it in a long, long time. Usually, when it’s this bad among the regular commenters, it means we’re heading for another leg down in prices. Will that turn out to be the case this spring?
One of the Wall Street housing analysts thinks national prices will drop another 8% in 2012 and won’t bottom until 2013.
“One of the Wall Street housing analysts thinks”
They actually think? That’s news to me.
“You have NO IDEA about the closets, the hallways, what looks to be a very large foyer (from the pictures and the floorplan) or the bathroom sizes”
The foyer is listed in the rooms and I included it’s dimensions in. I’ve agreed I don’t know the hallways, bathrooms or closets but since they have the large storage room as a “room” of the unit, I am guessing that the bathrooms, hallways, closets AND storage add up the remaining 500 which is slightly exaggerating. I wouldn’t ever include my storage unit in sq. ft. calculations. I don’t know for sure…but I think I was making a *pretty informed* guess.
“Semi-informed speculation, based on the tiny floorplan, x-ref’d with the listed room sizes: place is ~21? wide, on average, and ~73? long. =~1550. Unclear on how they bump that up 10%.”
1550 + 105 (for the storage unit that is counted as a room) = 1655, round up to 1700…..
“The agent DID provide the square footage here. The square footage is usually provided from the floorplan/original sale and just used over and over. You can’t just add up the room sizes and say “gee- it doesn’t match.” You have NO IDEA about the closets, the hallways, what looks to be a very large foyer (from the pictures and the floorplan) or the bathroom sizes. So unless you KNOW it isn’t 1700 square feet (because you’ve been in it)- stop attacking the real estate agent.”
This is a great illustration of the kinds of attitudes that result in real estate agents being so looked down upon and why most of the country hopes that all of the idiots, the shills and the plain old crooks who make up a vast majority of the profession start doing something else for a living. Since you’re not really a real estate shill, I assume that you’re simply protective of people you view to be doing the best that they can. This is unwise – they have a legislated monopoly, and at a minimum state regulation should at least ensure they’re not lying about material facts.
There is no nuance about square footage. It is math. If you are including non-habitable, storage space or outdoor space, you are a LIAR. If you are quoting a number that is wrong that is says somewhere else and pretending you don’t know better or don’t care, it is FRAUD. In this case, the real estate agent quoted the square footage in the ad. Don’t try to blame this on Redfin, which is very honest about exactly where it get its data and the limitations of its data. Don’t try to play some game about how you don’t know how much is taken up by the cabinets and the bathrooms – the floorplan is right there, and it doesn’t add up. A bunch of handwaving might convince the stupid, and keep everybody from getting sued, but don’t try to take some moral high horse about lying about this stuff or being so incompetent as not to care being the fault of GASP people on the internet who actually say something when someone is lying.
Wrongly railed on? 😉
JJJ: You really don’t know anything. It is NOT just math. You haven’t been a real estate agent measuring the rooms, have you? I’ve seen them do it. Two agents can be measuring and STILL come up with different measurements. That’s why if they don’t know (from an original floorplan/prior sale etc.) they usually err on the side of caution and DON’T list it (since lawsuits sometimes develop over the wrong square footage being listed- especially in a contract.)
You also assume the worst. Most agents aren’t out there saying “let’s go measure the balcony- hee, hee.” And hey- “let’s include that lower level storage room in the square footage.” This unit has been on the market for a long time. By now, if the square footage was only, what 1100 square feet as some of you have said, then I would think that would be pretty obvious from the comments in the listing. The agent would have simply left OFF the square footage completely (instead of inflating it by nearly 30%.) I’m not saying things don’t get exaggerated in listings. I’m not saying that agents don’t list a condo as having parking when it is simply rental down the street. But a 1700 square foot unit versus an 1100 square foot unit is VERY noticeable to even just your average buyer walking through it. Why didn’t the Redfin agent who has seen it say, “feels smaller than the square footage” or something to that affect? Because it DOESN’T. Instead he said it was “gracious space.”
If you look at some of the nearby listings- perhaps ALL of the agents are lying about ALL of the square footages. Because there is a vintage unit a few doors down on Pine Grove that is a 2/1.5 also with a full sized dining room that is 1500 square feet. I don’t see how you get that square footage either if you add it all up. BUT WAIT! They must be including the balcony and the big storage room too!!! That’s it! They’re ALL liars.
Pulease.
“1100 square feet as some of you have said”
Did anyone say the total square footage was 1,100?
Who cares those sq ft numbers are always off they’re more like guidelines anyway.
I sure didn’t….
Benjamon9: You said 1190.
That’s a BIG difference from 1700. And yes, someone walking through the unit would definitely notice that “gee, this really isn’t as spacious as it’s supposed to be based on the listing.”
This is a pre-war building that was probably built for rich clients (as many were in that neighborhood in this era.) That’s why they have the floorplan (as many of these luxury buildings had them from the beginning.) So I’m assuming the agent is just going off of the old specs that have been used for the property over and over again. Since it’s been around 100 years and used by everyone, they really have no reason to question it. Perhaps the original floorplan is miscalculated somehow or whatnot. Who knows?
But obviously no one who is here arguing that it’s not 1700 square feet has even been IN the unit. So you really have no idea.
“JJJ: You really don’t know anything. It is NOT just math. You haven’t been a real estate agent measuring the rooms, have you? I’ve seen them do it. Two agents can be measuring and STILL come up with different measurements. That’s why if they don’t know (from an original floorplan/prior sale etc.) they usually err on the side of caution and DON’T list it (since lawsuits sometimes develop over the wrong square footage being listed- especially in a contract.)”
I thank my lucky stars that, no, I have not been a real estate agent measuring rooms. Don’t you think that it is pathetic that real estate agents can’t measure things correctly, and that they don’t care if they’re wrong? You are very apologetic for agents knowingly or recklessly disseminating false information. For their commissions, they can’t be bothered to figure out if the information they are using to market a property is right? Actually, I know the answer to that. Most of them can’t, won’t and don’t care, but they still want to lie about the size of a property by including a number that someone told them, or sounds like it might be right or is at least a number that is going to get someone interested. If they’re all as incompetent as you suggest, they should just not include a square footage number, but I expect that there is dishonesty involved as well.
“Benjamon9: You said 1190.
That’s a BIG difference from 1700. And yes, someone walking through the unit would definitely notice that “gee, this really isn’t as spacious as it’s supposed to be based on the listing.””
Sabrina, my original sq. ft. comment was, “From Redfin it is 1190+baths+hallway+closet.” Your argument has been that doesn’t count the foyer (which it does), baths which I said, hallways, which I said and the closets which I said. I said where I came up with that number…adding the room sizes given by the REALTOR on redfin. I did not claim that I was there and it was 1190 sq. ft. or even that it was 1190…I said 1190 plus and said that the plus did not seem to equal 510.
Also, I did the addition to try to prove the people saying it wasn’t 1700 sq. ft. wrong and was surprised at my results, so I shared.