A 1 Bedroom Urban Retreat with Lush Gardens at 1555 N. Sandburg in Old Town
This 1-bedroom in Kilmer House in the Sandburg Village at 1555 N. Sandburg Terrace in Old Town came on the market in November 2021.
From the Kilmer House website:
James House is a 43-story high-rise structure with 520 residential units. Although the address is 1560 North Sandburg Terrace, its main entrance is on Germania Place and its service entrance faces LaSalle Street.
Kilmer House is a 6-story mid-rise structure with 96 residential units. Although its address is 1555 North Sandburg Terrace, Kilmer’s main entrance faces Clark Street and its service entrance is on Sandburg’s terrace level.
The two buildings share services and mechanical systems and are connected at the basement level through the garage. Construction of James House and Kilmer House was completed in 1970. At that time, the buildings were rental units. During 1980, they were converted to condominium units.
While James Kilmer is responsible for its own buildings, the Homeowners Association (HOA) is responsible for the common elements of the Village including swimming pools, tennis courts, commercial spaces, walkways and driveways, plantings, landscape maintenance, and snow removal.
The Kilmer House has doorstaff, a clubhouse, exercise room, and pool.
The listing says Kilmer House was designed by renowned architect Solomon Cordwell Buenz.
It describes this unit as an “urban retreat” which has had a “stunning remodel.”
The unit has an exposed brick wall and 8″ wide white oak floors trimmed with 5″ moldings.
The listing says it has a Chef’s dream kitchen with custom, high gloss white cabinets, quartz counter tops and full wall backsplash along with waterfall edge.
The kitchen has luxury appliances including Fisher & Paykel refrigerator, Bertazzoni stove, Zephyr range hood, a Bosch dishwasher and Sharp microwave drawer along with a dual zone wine refrigerator for 40 bottles.
The unit has a built-in media unit and designer lighting.
The bathroom has an oversized walk-in shower with custom glass, Fairmont Design vanity and Hansgrohe fixtures.
There are new raised panel doors throughout and California Closets.
Still looking for outdoor space?
It has a “massive” private terrace with brick walls and “lush gardens.”
The unit has air conditioning and parking is rental in the complex.
There is no washer/dryer in the unit BUT the listing says there is “a walk-in room off the kitchen that includes plumbing for in-unit laundry.”
This building is near the shops and restaurants of Old Town and the Gold Coast.
Buyers love remodeled properties and outdoor space.
Listed at $375,000, is this competition for the new luxury rentals in the neighborhood?
Tracy Boyce at @Properties has the listing. See the pictures and floor plan here.
Unit #114K: 1 bedroom, 1 bath, 1000 square feet
- Sold in November 1995 for $109,000
- Sold in December 2012 for $195,000
- Sold in July 2015 for $243,000
- Currently listed at $375,000
- Assessments of $723 a month (includes heat, a/c, doorman, cable, Internet, clubhouse, exercise room, pool, exterior maintenance, lawn care, scavenger, snow removal)
- Taxes of $4925
- Air conditioning
- No washer/dryer in the unit but you apparently CAN put it into the closet off the kitchen- otherwise coin laundry in the building
- Rental parking in the building
- Bedroom: 11×18
- Office: 3×8
- Living/dining room combo: 15×16
- Kitchen: 12×9
- Laundry: 6×5
- Private terrace: 26×24
LOL – this is maybe 800sf
Odor space looks nice.
I don’t consider a floating cabinet a “built in”
Never understood spending that much on appliances for a lower tier condo
Great terrace, and the unit itself appears attractive and spacious. Still, I wouldn’t want to be on the ground floor. I’d give up some outdoor space to be a few floors higher.
Just FYI, The Germania Club building is visible from the terrace (a nice perk). The developers of Sandburg Village wanted to tear that lovely 1888 building down as part of their urban renewal mania in the 1960s. Luckily, that didn’t happen. Someone found a small amount of common sense. It’s now a landmark.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania_Club_Building
“this is maybe 800sf”
Generous! Using the floorplan tells me it is under 725 sf.
“Never understood spending that much on appliances”
Everything other than the range is a somewhat modest upgrade in cost over ‘midrange’ SS appliances (yes, in the aggregate, those modest upgrades total over 1% of ask). Happy to not see another $400 range, tho.
“Laundry: 6×5”
Um, where? It’s doesn’t appear on the floorplan.
“Um, where?”
Description sez:
“a walk-in room off the kitchen that includes plumbing for in-unit laundry”
So it’s the closet next to the bath.
What about Room 1?? “Room Type: Office Dimensions: 3X8”
Like this place a lot – the outdoor space is awesome and the upgrades are nice. Still, $375,000 for a place this tiny – that’s a lot.
“What about Room 1?? “Room Type: Office Dimensions: 3X8””
Doesn’t it seem like they carved this space out of the living/dining combo? It must be the space where the desk is next to the windows in the living room.
But I’ve been saying for a while that buyers/renters will want a separate office/den space so they can work and sellers are going to have to try and give it to them in some way.
What do people think of the really wide plank floors? (says 8 inches)
Is this “in” now?
“says 8 inches”
——————————
We all do, honey, we all do.
Love the outdoor space. Unfortunately it is right on Clark so there’s probably quite a bit of traffic noise and smell on the patio and in this ground floor unit itself.
Not sure how I’d feel about being on the ground floor with the rise in crime in the area. I’m sure it’s not difficult to scale the patio wall.
“I’ve been saying for a while that buyers/renters will want a separate office/den space”
Was this you?
“So why would [lack of space for a desk] impact a condo’s sale?”
http://cribchatter.com/?p=28046#comment-1178466
I wonder how much lack of a designated office will hurt sales going forward. My condo isn’t great for working from home because the 2nd bedroom isn’t inviting, so I work form the living room. At least I have a spot for a desk with an appropriate chair. It would be extremely difficult to make a 1 bedroom condo work for even just one person. Perhaps this space would work for a young professional who has gone back to the office and isn’t home much. I learned during the pandemic that I am very happy just hanging out at home vs running around all over. Now that I’m homme a lot, I need more space.
“What do people think of the really wide plank floors? (says 8 inches)”
Sleek “Modern” design – no
Rustic or Gaines-ian – yes
Phoned this one in….”by renowned architect Solomon Cordwell Buenz…” as if that was a person and not an amalgamation of three different people’s last names as the name of an architecture firm ….Also the Starbucks on the corner is gone…been gone for awhile (2 years?) What is there is actually much better – – a Brazilian coffee shop called Pino Pico and they make a lot of delicious gluten free cheezy treats.
I like the place – – it is great pied a terre material. Would want to know what the noise attenuation is and how much foot and engine traffic you hear throughout the night.
As someone who’s often the first to point out the downsides of the Clark (or Sheridan) bus situation, right here at this spot, if memory serves I honestly don’t think it’s that big of a deal. Bigger downside is no powder room (for such an updated unit). And obviously the outdoor space is barely usable without there being a dorm fridge.
“I’ve been saying for a while that buyers/renters will want a separate office/den space”
Yep- I said that developers would add a small office space to their 1-bedroom floor plans.
But it doesn’t seem to be happening (yet). I guess they have such an upper hand they don’t have to add it and the apartments are renting anyway. Lol.
Condos may be different, however, as a buyer might have more leverage to get what they want in that market versus the rental market – at least downtown.
“I learned during the pandemic that I am very happy just hanging out at home vs running around all over. Now that I’m homme a lot, I need more space.”
Agreed Jenny.
The question is, how many other owners are thinking the same thing? How will this impact what people buy moving forward?
Is the 1-bedroom condo dead unless you can somehow add an office? And what about those with a “den” which doesn’t have windows or other natural light?
“ Is the 1-bedroom condo dead unless you can somehow add an office? And what about those with a “den” which doesn’t have windows or other natural light?”
So you’re a bear now?
“Is the 1-bedroom condo dead unless you can somehow add an office? And what about those with a “den” which doesn’t have windows or other natural light?”
Was this you?
“So why would [lack of space for a desk] impact a condo’s sale?”
http://cribchatter.com/?p=28046#comment-1178466
That was like 3 whole weeks ago
Sheesh
“So you’re a bear now?”
1-bedroom condos have always been the toughest sells. And post-pandemic there is the issue of people actually working 24/7 from home so they will want a space designed to do that (presumably.) Only we aren’t seeing it in the rental market (yet). New buildings are going up with the same old 625 square foot one bedroom with no separate space for a desk or office.
But the market for buyers of 1-bedroom apartments might be different than one for renters of the same. If you’re buying, presumably, you will stay in the property for a longer period of time. Renters might be willing to live without the office/den space because they know they can move in a year or two if it gets too annoying but buyers are stuck. Buyers may demand that that space is already available to them.
Could be that 1-bedroom condos that have space to carve out that space will be the “winners” and others that don’t, will not.
The entire housing market isn’t made up of one-bedroom condos JohnnyU. You can be bearish on 1-bedroom downtown condos and still be bullish on Chicago’s housing market.
But, additionally, I have had conversations with friends who are thinking of moving to the city post-empty nest about the size of the condo they would buy. Pre-pandemic, they might have done a 2 bedroom as they could put the kids in the spare room and on the living room couch when they are home from college or for the holidays. But now, they’re working from home so that won’t work. Have to go with a 3 bedroom or, maybe, even a 4 bedroom if they can find it in their price range so they have one, or two, offices in order to work and then a guest room for the kids.
Work from home is going to change housing needs in many ways that are only still coming to light.
Pre-pandemic luxury apartment buildings were putting in co-working spaces and cafes within the building, some with private offices available. But these features will probably be added to larger condo buildings going forward as well, especially the co-working spaces.
Older buildings are really going to be at a disadvantage as needs are changing. Instead of going to the cafe in the loop to get your coffee while working, you will go to the one in your apartment or condo building.
“there is the issue of people actually working 24/7 from home so they will want a space designed to do that (presumably.)”
Was this you?
“Why do you have to have a desk, by the way?
“I’ve been working on the dining room table, the kitchen island, the couch. Now that no one has a desk top, you can basically be anywhere in your house (out on the balcony etc.)”
http://cribchatter.com/?p=28046#comment-1177939
“But, additionally, I have had conversations with friends who are thinking of moving to the city post-empty nest about the size of the condo they would buy. Pre-pandemic, they might have done a 2 bedroom as they could put the kids in the spare room and on the living room couch when they are home from college or for the holidays. But now, they’re working from home so that won’t work. Have to go with a 3 bedroom or, maybe, even a 4 bedroom if they can find it in their price range so they have one, or two, offices in order to work and then a guest room for the kids.”
1 – Who cares what Boomers are doing. Its all about Millennials and GenZ, right?
2 – Who in the world cross shops 1BR+Den and a 3 or 4 Br? LOL
you make up the strangest scenarios in your head
“Pre-pandemic luxury apartment buildings were putting in co-working spaces and cafes within the building, some with private offices available. But these features will probably be added to larger condo buildings going forward as well, especially the co-working spaces.”
Whats the difference between a co-work space and going into the office?
These might but they’re going to be reflected in higher costs, just like adding sf to accommodate a dedicated WFH
FYI – They’ve been putting Starbuck machines in for 10 years, even in Corncob In.
“the outdoor space is barely usable without there being a dorm fridge.”
It’s just a wine fridge, so not so good for the bros, but it’s smack in the middle of the office, so I don’t know ho wyou missed it.
“1 – Who cares what Boomers are doing. Its all about Millennials and GenZ, right?”
The oldest Millennials are 40-41 years old. Lol. Millennials are OLD dude. Get with the times.
And empty nesters are going to be GenXers if they’re still working and youngest Baby Boomers, if they had kids a little bit older.
No one is talking about cross shopping a 1 bedroom plus den and a 3 bedroom. But my friends who were thinking about a 2-bedroom condo downtown are now thinking 3 or maybe even 4 bedroom (even though those are rare at their price point) because they need offices to work from home.
People’s plans have changed due to the pandemic. White collar work is never going to be the same, even though many will do hybrid.
Again, most people will WANT an office or private space of some kind. We’ve all been struggling over the past 2 years. It’s got to be easier if we’re buying a place to live in for the next 10 years.
“Whats the difference between a co-work space and going into the office?”
Everything. Biggest difference is that you don’t have to go outside in negative 20 degrees.
“Why do you have to have a desk, by the way?”
You don’t in a 625 square foot apartment. I’ve been working on my dining room table (but my space is bigger than a small one bedroom apartment.)
My husband is in the office space, damn him. I’d like my own office though.
My young co-workers are working on their kitchen islands but I’m not sure how much longer they want to be doing it. Lots of options. If it was safe enough, I’d work in a cafe but with covid cases rising again, I don’t feel comfortable working there for several hours.
“FYI – They’ve been putting Starbuck machines in for 10 years, even in Corncob In.”
Please watch some YouTube videos showing new apartment amenities in Chicago. You don’t know what you are talking about.
Things have changed.
We will see what they put in One Chicago. The Tribune Tower amenities are amazing. It has, basically, it’s own cafe as well as library.
“ Everything. Biggest difference is that you don’t have to go outside in negative 20 degrees.”
“ If it was safe enough, I’d work in a cafe but with covid cases rising again, I don’t feel comfortable working there for several hours.”
Yeah, I don’t think that’s the biggest difference.
“ We will see what they put in One Chicago. The Tribune Tower amenities are amazing. It has, basically, it’s own cafe as well as library.”
So we’ll add 100sf to units, cafes, Hoteling/private workspaces and libraries and it won’t have an effect on affordability. Do you create talking points for Joe Biden as well?
“ The oldest Millennials are 40-41 years old. Lol. Millennials are OLD dude. Get with the times.”
But that cohort is getting married and having kids later, tight? So the whole empty nester thing has zero to do with them
You’ve bleated endlessly about how it’s all about Millennials and GenZ, now Developers are going to cater to Boomers and GenX?
You make more ship up than Trump
“I’d like my own office though.”
Was this you:
“To each their own, but I believe that’s ‘making do’, rather than actual preference, for almost all who do mainly “desk work”.”
Not everyone is you anon(tfo).
We all don’t do the same jobs.
And apparently, everyone who is renting the THOUSANDS of small luxury apartments downtown, don’t care about having space for a desk. Or are managing to put it into the corner somewhere or work on their dining room table etc.
http://cribchatter.com/?p=28046#comment-1178466
” most people will WANT an office or private space of some kind.”
I wrote that 3 weeks ago, and you acted like I was crazy.
“Was this you:”
Yep. Renting. Thousands of apartments are renting without the office.
Is it that the renters just have no leverage to demand it now? No new buildings are offering this product. If one did, and could charge a premium, the others would follow suit.
For condos, buyers have leverage but only on some properties, as I said. Could be that 1-bedrooms where you can’t carve out a separate space for an office will lag the market for years as a result but those where you can carve it out, or have a den, will out perform.
In the Kilmer House 1-bedroom, there’s no way, with that layout, you can really carve it out. Other 1960s/70s buildings have units that have a separate dining space which could maybe be carved out.
Some 1-bedroom lofts have big foyer spaces where you can maybe carve it out.
I expect condo owners to get creative in trying to give this feature to buyers because many will want it as we move forward and working from home becomes the new normal. We still don’t know what’s going to happen with “the office” but many will be doing hybrid, at a minimum.
“But that cohort is getting married and having kids later, tight? So the whole empty nester thing has zero to do with them”
Don’t know about the oldest Millennials as most of them consider themselves to be GenX as they didn’t have smartphones in school or social media. I don’t know if they also married later. They were already well into their working years when the Great Recession hit. But average age for marriage has been rising for decades. But marriage doesn’t mean you don’t have children.
But your point about empty nesters being Baby Boomers isn’t the case. It’s mostly GenXers who are empty AND are still working, as I talked about in my friends scenario. Oldest GenX are 55-56. They are still going to be working for another decade. Some young Baby Boomers would also fall into this scenario though.
“You’ve bleated endlessly about how it’s all about Millennials and GenZ, now Developers are going to cater to Boomers and GenX?”
This is how real estate works, JohnnyU. Developers go to where the buyers are. As I’ve already mentioned, Toll Brothers is now building homes with 2 or 3 home offices. 25% of their buyers are Millennials.
The Baby Boomers are rich. They will dictate a lot of development decisions (and already have.)
In the last decade, developers have been building 3+ bedroom condos downtown for families. There has been big demand for that. Not much will change if they continue to build that size unit for empty nesters who will work from home.
But if Toll Brothers is already changing its designs to accommodate the home office and working from home, you can bet that downtown condo developers will be doing something similar shortly, if they aren’t already.
I also wonder if the “open concept” design will go by the wayside too? It has dominated for about 20 years now. The big kitchen island and no separate spaces. But this kind of layout has been a nightmare during the pandemic. The lack of privacy has really hit many families.
I think buyers are going to be looking for layouts with enclosed rooms again. Vintage homes may be back in style once again. Developers may stop removing the walls in those vintage brownstones.
“Don’t know about the oldest Millennials as most of them consider themselves to be GenX as they didn’t have smartphones in school or social media.”
No one cares what you “think”. The term has a meaning, your opinion doesnt matter
“I don’t know if they also married later. They were already well into their working years when the Great Recession hit. But average age for marriage has been rising for decades. But marriage doesn’t mean you don’t have children.”
You dont know if they got married later but the average age has been rising for decades? WTF?!?
So you want to make you case with a minority of GenX’ers, yeah that makes sense. DINK’s is the correct term here, not empty nesters
“But your point about empty nesters being Baby Boomers isn’t the case. It’s mostly GenXers who are empty AND are still working, as I talked about in my friends scenario. Oldest GenX are 55-56. They are still going to be working for another decade. Some young Baby Boomers would also fall into this scenario though.”
You realize those that those aged 56 are the very first GenX’ers right?
You are flat out wrong about the number of GenX empty nesters, especially the cohort that would be eyeing a move into the city
“Yep. Renting.”
Was this you?
“So why would [lack of space for a desk] impact a condo’s sale?”
http://cribchatter.com/?p=28046#comment-1178466
I’m really tired of the people on this blog who somehow think it’s constructive to simply spew verbal abuse at me all day instead of talking about real estate.
I get it that many of you have been wrong about where the housing market was going to go. But that ship has sailed. It’s time to move on and adjust to the reality that Chicago isn’t doomed and that it’s housing market is the best in 15 years.
There’s SO MUCH more going on in Chicago’s housing market that can be discussed on this blog other than “Sabrina is stupid” or constantly playing “gotcha” with something I have said on here.
And I have said a LOT over the course of nearly 15 years. There are 241,000 comments on this blog. There has been a LOT said.
And good.
Let’s try and keep it focused on what is going on out there.
We have near record low inventory. We have record high prices. There are record low mortgage rates. Which of those three is going to change first?
“I have said a LOT over the course of nearly 15 years.”
I’m not dredging up something from 15 years ago–you acted like I was crazy for suggesting that people (including me) would want a separate office space, and now, within a month, you’re acting as if you’ve always thought that everyone would want that.
I don’t know if you’re actually one person, with an opinion that changes that frequently, or more than one person, who doesn’t always read what the other wrote.
Either way, it’s sometimes hard to have a real conversation with that overlay. Also, the strawman that everyone who disagrees with you about anything is claiming that “Chicago is doomed” is … not helpful.
“Thousands of apartments are renting without the office.
Is it that the renters just have no leverage to demand it now?”
Renters are poor, thus have no leverage, and can’t afford the extra sq. feet. Creating dens in 1 bd’s would lower the number of units in a building and thus decrease profits.
New one bedroom apartments are generally 550 – 800 sq. feet unless the builders make the bathrooms and bedrooms smaller (probably can’t with bathrooms as they need to be ADA accessible) to carve out the space for a dark, depressing den (which probably lowers the units value) next to the laundry closet the economics aren’t going to work.
The builders can’t make the units bigger and add a den due to the below market rates of 20%+ of the building units to comply with the updated ARO as they are already having to justify the high rents on the other 80% with the amenities and views.
The answer is move into a two bedroom (most are 850 – 1,000 sq. ft.) with a girlfriend or boyfriend have the spare room as an office and work out a hybrid schedule or the other person can set-up shop in the kitchen or primary bedroom if its big enough.
When you divide the rent of a “luxury” two bedroom apartment each person will pay less than separately renting one bedrooms or one bedrooms + den while still having the amenities and views.
The builder doesn’t give up on the economics and the city wants builders building more 2+ units compared to studios or 1 bedrooms. This was also incentivized in the updated 2021 ARO.
“Creating dens in 1 bd’s would lower the number of units in a building and thus decrease profits.”
Developers want to get maximum occupancy. This is why they have been building rock climbing walls, yoga studios, cafes, world class gyms, pools, dog runs etc.
There’s a TON of competition out there. To “win” you have to give the renters what they are looking for. You don’t need a “den” to create an office. Yes, it might be hard to carve out an office space in 600 square feet, but it all depends on the layouts you’re working with.
Will lack of an office hurt leasing at One Chicago, for instance? If you can afford those apartments, you have a lot of choice. Might go with a cheaper, but bigger unit, in another building in order to get the office.
I don’t know. But you can definitely add an office space in the larger 1-bedrooms, if you want to.
We will see as it goes forward. It took a while for the “amenities” craze to really catch on so it will take some time for changes in demands for what people want in their living space to catch on.
Also, as I mentioned, the open concept might get thrown out, even in the 1-bedroom apartments, in order to make room for an office space.
“open concept might get thrown out”
Walls take up space AND cost money. There’s only so much smaller you can make a living space in a 650 sf unit.
Isn’t the return of the godforsaken office ‘nook’/windowless den more likely, at least in some buildings?
“Walls take up space AND cost money. There’s only so much smaller you can make a living space in a 650 sf unit.”
Check out NY and Paris apartments. Most of them have walls.
“Renters are poor, thus have no leverage, and can’t afford the extra sq. feet. Creating dens in 1 bd’s would lower the number of units in a building and thus decrease profits.”
Renters paying $4 per square foot are “poor”?
Lol.
“Most of them have walls.”
When you put up a wall between the kitchen and the living space, you lose the ability to have the island/peninsula be both kitchen and dining area. If you are also then trying to carve out 40-50 sf for a ‘separate’ office area, and taking away ~10-20 sf for added walls, you’re putting a tremendous amount of pressure on the 650 sf of space you were starting with.
“Renters paying $4 per square foot are “poor”?”
Do you think the added SF for Dens/dedicated WFH/Cafe’s and all the other BS dont come at a cost?
“Check out NY and Paris apartments. Most of them have walls”
And do they have dedicated WFH areas?
“When you put up a wall between the kitchen and the living space, you lose the ability to have the island/peninsula be both kitchen and dining area. If you are also then trying to carve out 40-50 sf for a ‘separate’ office area, and taking away ~10-20 sf for added walls, you’re putting a tremendous amount of pressure on the 650 sf of space you were starting with.”
Those are just numbers, they (and reality) have no impact on Sabrina’s thoughts/wants
“Do you think the added SF for Dens/dedicated WFH/Cafe’s and all the other BS dont come at a cost?”
It’s PER SQUARE FOOT JohnnyU. And, yes, this is a record high for Chicago but people are paying it.
Other buildings are charging less than $4 and still have WFH, cafes, rock climbing walls, pools, grills, yoga rooms etc. Those amenities have been around 6 to 7 years now. WFH push has been more in the last 3 to 4 years than 6 or 7 however.
It doesn’t matter if they carve a den or office out of the 700 square feet. They were charging $4 per square foot regardless of how they configured the space. BUT they can probably get MORE for those particular apartments if they DO carve it out. As renters, I believe, will be willing to pay a premium for 1-bedrooms that offer an “office.”
And it doesn’t have to be a “den.” We’ve seen desks put underneath stairs, in closets, in a nook in a large bedroom, in a former small dining room space and on and on.
The kitchen island may be “out” and a smaller kitchen “in” with an enclosed office space of some kind taking up that space.
It may be hard to believe for some younger people on this blog but there was a time when an open concept home, including a kitchen with a big island, was NOT the norm or desired.
The pandemic is causing a lot of changes to how we live and work. One of those changes could finally be the end of the open concept with the enclosed kitchen returning to popularity.
I don’t know. But I DO know many people with kids nearly lost their minds during the pandemic when everyone was working, schooling and living at home 24/7 and there was little private space to have alone time, work in quiet, do a zoom call in private etc.
How much will this impact buying and renting decisions going forward?
We will see.
But Americans continue to move around at quick pace. The adjustments to the “new” normal aren’t over yet.
“When you put up a wall between the kitchen and the living space, you lose the ability to have the island/peninsula be both kitchen and dining area. If you are also then trying to carve out 40-50 sf for a ‘separate’ office area, and taking away ~10-20 sf for added walls, you’re putting a tremendous amount of pressure on the 650 sf of space you were starting with.”
I’m not a developer anon(tfo). I only know what has already been built and even in super small spaces in NYC and Paris, they have managed to put in private spaces but they don’t have massive kitchens with islands that take up half the space, as Chicago condos/apartments tend to have.
Chicago has plenty of larger 1-bedrooms as well. Imagine what you could do in the 800-1000 square foot 1-bedrooms? They are still building some of those. I’m sure going forward they will try and carve out the office in many of those.
The 1970s 1-bedrooms had the smaller kitchen, sometimes enclosed, with a separate dining room.
Additionally, the era of having the super huge primary suite bathrooms (in condos) might go away too if there is pressure for square footage somewhere else in the condo.
Do you need a 14×14 primary bathroom? Or will some of that square footage get “taken” so that a small office niche can be put in even in a 2/2?
Toll Brothers is adding a lot of offices to its homes now. All the buyers want it. But they don’t want to sacrifice bedrooms for it. And these offices are much smaller than a bedroom and don’t need a closet. Would be an easy “amenity” to add into a new condo or apartment.
We shall see. The market will respond to buyer/renter demand, eventually.
“Renters paying $4 per square foot are “poor”?
Lol.”
Yes. Their net worth is negative as they have $30K in student loan debt (maybe auto and credit card on top) while making ~$80K – $100K and paying $2K a month for rent. Sure they aren’t going homeless but unless the Bank of Mom & Dad is open this is their reality for 10 – 15 years.
Doesn’t scream purchasing power or leverage to me that after 401K, HSA, taxes, and deductions from paychecks you have ~$45K – $55K left of which $24K is earmarked for rent, $10K to student loans, then there’s food, transportation, etc.
“Check out NY and Paris apartments. Most of them have walls.”
Check out their homeownership rates too. Compare rental prices as well….
Cool you make >$100K+ but you are living in a shack with 2 other younger millennials/older Gen-Z’s smoking weed on a Friday night, watching netflix, and hoping someone will swipe right since you are too broke to do anything else.
“It doesn’t matter if they carve a den or office out of the 700 square feet. They were charging $4 per square foot regardless of how they configured the space. BUT they can probably get MORE for those particular apartments if they DO carve it out. As renters, I believe, will be willing to pay a premium for 1-bedrooms that offer an “office.”
Now were at 700sf.
So now were at $2800/mo for a studio, where? One Chicago? Where exactly are you going to carve out an office?
https://www.zillow.com/b/727-west-madison-chicago-il-BCgw9T/#unit-2086135887
A 1 BR + office is going to add another 60sf
“And it doesn’t have to be a “den.” We’ve seen desks put underneath stairs, in closets, in a nook in a large bedroom, in a former small dining room space and on and on.”
Lots of stairs in studio apartments
how large of a bedroom will a 700sf apartment have?
at 700sf – the dining area is the same as living area
“Additionally, the era of having the super huge primary suite bathrooms (in condos) might go away too if there is pressure for square footage somewhere else in the condo.
Do you need a 14×14 primary bathroom? Or will some of that square footage get “taken” so that a small office niche can be put in even in a 2/2?”
Hy are you flipping the convo to larger units. No 650sf unit has a 14X14 bathroom
Again, JohnnyU, the developers are choosing NOT to carve out office space. It CAN be done. All you need to do is look at what is already happening in home building, in older units, in units in cities with smaller spaces etc.
They will do it if the buyers/renters demand it. We already see in condo listings the carving out of “office” space in a living room where no walls exist. And other suggestions of “office” spaces, niches etc. Just in the last few months on this site.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence given what we’ve all just gone through over the past 18 months.
The pandemic will have a lasting impact on the way we live and work. But what will it be? It’s too soon to know.
18 months ago, the media was convinced the cities were doomed and, instead, here we are with them roaring back. Who knows what will happen with our housing choices and desires in the next 12 months?
But what we do know is that developers WILL respond to whatever the demands are.
“Check out their homeownership rates too. Compare rental prices as well….”
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with our discussion.
Absolutely NOTHING.
We’re discussing square footage. Space. NOT the “homeownership rates. Rental prices” or any of THAT nonsense.
I once saw a House Hunters International where they were looking for a 2 bedroom in the Marais in Paris. When they got in front of the building, the agent tells them it’s 2 bedrooms, 2 baths and has a dining room. And it’s 800 square feet.
Whut?
But, yeah, it WAS 800 square feet. Was it small? You bet. Did they have walk-in-showers instead of tubs in the bathrooms? Yes indeed. But the dining room could fit a table for 6. Kitchen was a small walk-in (had a window). Both bedrooms had windows. No walk-in-closets, however.
It’s all how you use the space. If you have a kitchen that has a huge island that takes up half the living room, then, yeah, you aren’t putting in an “office” somewhere.
This is what I’m saying. The pandemic could change everything. In a few years, we may be able to pick out the pre-pandemic apartment and condo towers, with the post.
I don’t know. Or maybe not. Maybe it will change nothing.
But this event is already having an impact on the housing market. Priorities have changed. I wouldn’t be surprised if the “open concept” is one of the things that ultimately gets tossed.
“Yes. Their net worth is negative as they have $30K in student loan debt (maybe auto and credit card on top) while making ~$80K – $100K and paying $2K a month for rent.”
This sounds so certain.
Absurd.
At $4 a square foot, it’s more than $2,000 a month WP. Get with the program. Much, much more.
And no, someone who is earnings $80,000 to $100,000 as a singleton in Chicago isn’t “poor.”
The responses on this site get sillier and sillier.
Remember, the Millennials are driving this market, even in the upper brackets. Somehow, they are the ones buying the $750,000 2/2 in Lincoln Park.
And good for them. Hooray! It’s not all doom and gloom.
It would be horrible to have the largest generation so down on their luck. Thankfully, they are not. But record setting stock and crypto markets tend to ease the pain, I’m sure.
So its Millennials driving the market this week…
“So its Millennials driving the market this week…”
Where have you been?
Every day. Every week. And every year for many, many years.
Why is it so obvious that housing was driven by the Baby Boomers when THEY were the largest generation in US history but the same wouldn’t be true of the Millennials 40 years later?
Basic demographics. And GenZ isn’t that small of a generation either and also appears to prefer the urban life, so look for them to be the future drivers in about 10 to 15 years.
This unit is under contract.
Now listed at $360,000.