Flipper Alert: First Flips Appear in 757 N. Orleans in River North
Yes, investors are still attempting to flip new construction units in the downtown.
The first flips are beginning to appear in 757 N. Orleans in River North- the new construction 198-unit high rise at Orleans and Chicago Avenue (if you ride the brown line, you can’t miss it.) Closings just began in the building.
Current stats in the building on the MLS (out of 198 units):
- 23 for sale
- 2 for rent
Units may be both for sale AND for rent.
There are a few 1-bedrooms listed for rent already on Craigslist.
This 2-bedroom, Unit #1112, just came on the market to purchase or to rent.
Which do you think it will do first?
Here’s the listing:
RIVER NORTHS PREMIER NEW BUILDING. S/E VIEWS OF THE ENTIRE SKYLINE – ONE BLOCK TO “L” ,STRBUCKS, 3 BLCKS TO 90/94.SOLD OUT “12” TIER UNIT. VIEWS FROM EVERYROOM. MASTER BEDROOM IS ALL GLASS WITH HIGHLY COVENTED SOUTH/EAST VIEWS.
ALL STONE BATHS, CASHMIRE GRANITE KITCHEN COUNTERS, EURO DESIGNED DARK HRDWD FLOORS AND CABINETS. W/D IN UNIT. LARGE CLOSETS. XTRA STORGE. ON SITE GYM, POOL, SUNDECK. 24 HR DR PRSON. PRK 40K
Sophia Klopas at Koenig & Strey has the listing. See more pictures here.
Unit #1112: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1248 square feet
- Sold in December 2008 for $414,660
- Currently listed for $465,000 plus $40k for parking
- Assessments of $476 a month
- Taxes are “new”
- OR you can rent it for $2500 a month (I can’t tell if parking is included- it looks like it might be)
Wow – That kitchen looks CHEAP! Did the cabinets come off the shelf at Lowe’s or Menards? The placement of the refrigerator is just wrong since it sticks our from the doorway….and the cheap bubble fluorescent light fixture….belongs in a gargage, not a kitchen with “CASHMIRE GRANITE KITCHEN COUNTERS”.
White stone countertops… a completely unusable kitchen.
“24 HR DR PRSON.”
I read this as “24 hour Prison”.
“24 hour Debtors Prison”.
Did they mean “COVETED” views instead of “COVENTED”, or are the views indeed currently under agreements with God?
The listing is hilarious!
“VIEWS OF THE ENTIRE SKYLINE” — Really? All 360 degrees of it?
“VIEWS FROM EVERYROOM” — Including the bathroom?
“MASTER BEDROOM IS ALL GLASS” — Wow! All four walls, ceiling and floor?
“HIGHLY COVENTED” — Shared vents?
“ALL STONE BATHS” — Now that would be impressive.
“EURO DESIGNED DARK HRDWD FLOORS” — Because Americans don’t know how to design wooden floors.
And ““24 HR DR PRSON” — I can’t get my Doc to even make house calls
Yet another blah overpriced condo in an oversaturated market. I totally agree w/ the cabinets being from Lowes. This place could use some professional pics w/out all the glare on the floors and cabs. I’m sure the no picture of the bathroom means its all stone, but about 30 sqft.
I honestly can’t believe that people are still able to rent out 1BR for 1800-2000 (as featured here a few days back). It makes me want to never move from my current RN 1br w/ no building amenities. Although getting a balcony would be enticing… not at 757, tho
Thanks to the Tipster who sent me the closing price on this unit.
why oh why oh why can’t americans figure out how to do an integrated kitchen. that stove! that fridge! it does not have to cost more.. and someone might even buy that place if the kitchen did not look like a home depot display.
I declare that the new name of this website should be “Crib Complaints.” You all whimper non stop and rarely convert the negatively into a productive though or heaven forbid an idea on how to capitalize on the situation.
The prices are what they are. Taxes and assessments will be at least $500 per month for a one bedroom so rental rates of $1,400-2,000 are the present/future. Yes, Chicago real estate prices are starting to look like New York and they will continue to do so. Welcome to the future after this financial debacle…inflation.
Haterz! this is going to be an instantaneous 90k profit, just in time for the holidays.
The listing’s last night has been updated, “24 Hour dining room person”
last line, not last night. Doh!
“24 Hour dining room person”
That’ll play hell with the assessments.
Or, did they up the stakes on the free maid/laundry service offer?
“The prices are what they are. Taxes and assessments will be at least $500 per month for a one bedroom so rental rates of $1,400-2,000 are the present/future. Yes, Chicago real estate prices are starting to look like New York and they will continue to do so. Welcome to the future after this financial debacle…inflation.”
hahahahahaha. hohohohohohoh..hehehehehehe. ROTFLMFAO…….Keep it coming….this is hilarious……
Crib Complaints is probably the most intelligent comment in this particular post. And, I second the motion for the new web-page moniker. Lately, complaints far out way meaningful and useful chatter.
This site works best— for everyone, but particularly those actually buying or selling— when comments make salient points about a particular property. I come here to try to get some info about a potential investment property I might not get anywhere else.
Complaint after complaint about prices and assements is not helpful to people actually in the market to buy or sell. Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought this site was for those actually buying or selling. If you are neither individual, then maybe you ought to just READ the posts and add comments IF you have useful info to share.
BTW: $1200 – $1650 is the going rate for STUDIOS in Streeterville. And, $500 is a standard benchmark for assessments for Streeterville as well.
Finally, Chicago real estate prices— in neighborhoods like River East; Streeterville; Gold Coast; [pockets of] Lincoln Park–have been approaching New York’s prices for awhile now. That should not be a revelation or a joke. Trump’s Trump Tower and Kelleher’s The Chicago Spire solidified this process (by marketing these buildings internationally). Plus, the RE prices in these same neighborhoods are holding their own right now. Yes, there are some declines, but, overall, prices in these ‘hoods—for truly high-end properties– are not diving.
Luke,
You must be new here. This site is all about hating anybody trying to buy or sell and talking up the next great depression. The properties posted are just an excuse to pile on.
Reasonably priced, attractive properties are out there. You just never see them here because those are no fun for the regulars.
Luke for president in 2016!
Luke,
You must not have passed the entrance test to post on this sight. You have to meet the following criteria:
1) You are under 25 years old and have never seen a recession
2) You make under $50,000
3) You are mad that you can’t afford to buy in LP and you rent in a garden unit in Uptown
4) You are jealous of the “used home salesman” that make more money than you
5) You’ve never taken a single econ course, yet you think that other people should take your economic commentary seriously
Please come back when you’ve met all these criteria.
Luke/crib complaints,
you guys are funny! I pay $1100/month for a 950 sqft 1BR w/ granite, hardwood, washer/dryer in unit, and 12 ft ceilings. It was rehabbed in 2001. I live close to the Anti-Cruelty Society in River North.
I also like how you compare Streeterville studio prices to 757 N. Orleans, which is what this thread is about.
I find the banter on this website very useful. Most of the concerns here are legitimate matters (like sellers boosting RE prices $90K for 3 years of living w/ no upgrades made in that time, cheap finishes, “el” noise, neighborhood realities, the coming crash of South Loop, Trump Tower’s RE price collapse, middle class incomes not being able to support $400K mortgage)
AND as you all can see, there is nowhere on this site that says it’s only for people that are buying/selling. Sabrina says “Flips, Foreclosures, McMansions, New Condos: The Dish On the Chicago Housing Market”
Since you seem to think the only ones who should comment are ones that are thinking of buying and have POSITIVE things to say, i’m sure you sympathize w/ America’s Japanese Internment camps of WWII. “If they’re out of sight, they can’t hurt us” “Don’t let dissent get out” “I only want to see/hear like-minded people and people that “look” American”
ChiGuy,
This sight is full of doom and gloomers who want the housing market to drop so they can afford the home they want. Maybe they will get their wish, but Luke is simply pointing out how this sight has become a magnet for like-minded pessimists with little or no balanced discussions. Anyone who argues anything even remotely moderate or bullish gets piled on by people who desparately want the market to fall.
I don’t want the market to fail I want home prices to return to affordable and sustainable levels. I don’t understand why you consider home prices returning to pre-bubble levels as failing.
By the way you are wrong on about me on all 5 points above. Not just a little wrong but way off. You might want to reconsider your opposition on this board especially when you are waaaaaaaaaay off on the demographics! Come down from your ivory tower!
T2 is dead on. It is like when you were a kid and someone would attack your physical appearance because they could not think of a thoughtful response. On this board, “G” would be that kid.
Hypothetical conversation
Steve H: Have you ever seen the home prices in LP?
G: Shill
Steve H: There are many buying opportunities for example…..
G: Shill (a little louder this time)
Steve H: Home prices have held up in Lincoln Park because of the billionaire effect.
G: Shill (even louder this time.)
HD, are you also a Ultra-Super-High-Networth-Invidual like John who has secret investments plan that no one can know about? Oh, I forgot, you are a low-level, poorly paid lawyer that doesn’t know the difference between an investment company and an investment bank. You have the credibility of toilet paper.
[Hypothetical conversation]
Are we supposed to take from that that you think they are idiots?
It would be phenomenal to hear someone deliver input on the story of this development, some info on the tax records, maybe some surrounding comparables and where they have sold… even cooler if someone has been through the building and could provide a critical review…
But no – another series of posts where there’s a pissing contest between HD, T2, Steve H is on his way, etc.
I have more of an issue with G’s post because they are derogantory towards the poster and in no way add value to the property.
AaronERG, here is my opinion of the pessimism barometer on this board. I have been following this board since early this year and the pessimism began to go through the roof starting in October. You no longer see people talk about walkthroughs because people are just not going to walkthroughs right now. Sales are falling through the floor and maybe congress’ proposed 4.5% mortgage rate will stimulate things.
Real estate works best when buyers feel some sense of urgency. There is absolutely 0 urgency to buy right now and prices just continue to get better each month. At some point, this will end.
Also, my impression is that realtors are leaving the profession at a rapid rate and I have noticed a decline in posts on this board from realtors. You can tell who the realtors are.
That’s funny, Complainer. Are you sure your complaint with me isn’t that I correctly predicted long ago the very conclusions you are making today? You didn’t miss those, did you?
You’re right. I’ll stop the pissing contest now; I’ve got my secretary setting up my client in the conference room right now. Back to work….
“But no – another series of posts where there’s a pissing contest between HD, T2, Steve H is on his way, etc.”
Wait.. I own and think the market is going to shit and worse. Can I no longer post??
Hey CC is right on this one. This will end at some point, probably in the spring and summer when Chicago prices tend to stabilize, then resume next winter. The question is when will it end overall. We’ve had predictions on this board that Chicagoland will bottom anywhere from 2009 – 2014 and price declines anywhere from another 10% – 40%. It will be interesting to follow over the coming years.
“Real estate works best when buyers feel some sense of urgency. There is absolutely 0 urgency to buy right now and prices just continue to get better each month. At some point, this will end.”
T2,
I like to seperate out my predictions from the state of the housing market from what I think will actually happen. But I will say if my wish does come true (that 600k McMansion for 400k or less) I will throw a big party and invite everyone on here to my housewarming party! But this is a few years off.
Do I want the housing market to crater? Absolutely. Do I think it will happen quickly or to the extent that I want? Probably not.
“This sight is full of doom and gloomers who want the housing market to drop so they can afford the home they want. Maybe they will get their wish”
Bob as they say.. Differing opinions make a market.
Do I want the housing market to crater? Absolutely Not!!!
Do I think it will happen quickly or to the extent that I think? Probably faster and worse
🙂 See U-6 Unemployment? My god that’s awful, and the layoffs won’t get going full force until post X-Mas.
I bet you see a few crazy places go up for sale in some real high end places now also. Shitadel, State Street, money pouring out of hedgie fundie land. People that thought they would pull that every year will get hung long things they can no longer afford.
Remember Bud Fox in Wall St. “Just sell the fucking place”
Ranting aside, I’ve found the bulk of your comments helpful. I’d really appreciate your comments on my dilemma: I bought a unit in 757 in 2006. I’m feeling that it’s overpriced and that I may save more, despite losing my earnest money, in a resale while leveraging what everyone agrees is a terrible market. So, do I close and try to sell this place as the buyer above is, do I live there and stomach what may be stagnant appreciation, or do I dump it and walk from my earnest money? Thanks all.
Mike I think you probably made a very good investment. Prices in that building are up alot since 2006 and 2007. Sales are slow but the market is terrible and prices are holding up well in River North. The 757 building has many very nice features including outdoor pool, gym, parking, 24hour doorman, internet, Direct TV, a great location, nice floor plans, and generally great standard features; although there are a few things that are lacking like the kitchen lighting. The views are incredible and another nice perk is that they are getting a Walgreens and Bank of America in the building. Also, I spoke to a research appraiser who told me that after 2009 there are no new high rise buildings in the area for at least a few years so demand should far exceed supply at the same time that the general market is getting better…that means higher prices. Add to that the possibility of Chicago getting the Olympics and the upside keeps getting better. The problem here is that people are either trying to talk down prices or they are just upset that they can’t manage a high end condo during this lousy economy. When the economy and housing turns; and they will within the next year, 757 will be in the sweet spot. Bottom line…I’d live there, enjoy it, and 10 years from now you’ll be very happy you did. Just my opinion.
i actually toured this unit for purchase. its really nice.. the bathrooms are a granite with glass tiles.
im lookimng in the river north area and I cant find a 2bed with great views under 500k.
fyi – the granite isnt white – it does have a lighter color but its sealed granite.
the assesments include all your bills, cable, and internet – not bad.
the 9th floor w/o views just went under contract for 451 w/o park –
i meet the owner he bought it in 2002 to live in but it took a long time to get all the permits in order?
Bob is right on – the way they r pumping money into the economy and the lack of buildings in the city – its a good time to buy. You would think there are tons of condos for sale – there is but there is only a few nice ones… i have been looking for months and most everything that is not sold is poo poo
I also purchased, and am closing on my unit soon. Sure some things I am changing (lighting, for one), minor changes on a very nice unit in a very nice building in a very nice area are hardly a big deal.
“lack of buildings in the city”???
That’s one of the funniest things I’ve heard in a long, long time. There are so many buildings they’re mainly becoming rentals- and it will stay that way for many, many years.
Heck, just down the street from this building is The Silver (should start closings next year) and let us not forget 110 W. Superior (but that’s a higher price point.)
A new apartment high rise just got a bank loan a few blocks away from this building as well- which will eat into the rental market because renters want to move in with only $500 down (not a month’s worth of rent) and want to know there is someone in the building to fix the clogged sink.
We’ll see what happened after every other condo boom in Chicago (where there was overbuilding)- there won’t be any new buildings built for 20 years or more. That’s how long it will take to absorb all the inventory.
That Bob above is not me. I am the bearish Bob. That Bob above is the bullish Bob.
This has to be one of the funniest comment threads ever.
“there won’t be any new buildings built for 20 years or more. That’s how long it will take to absorb all the inventory.”
Really Sabrina? Are you sure you want to stand by that comment?
I’ll stand by this comment:
Whatever “Bob” made that comment at 10:57pm on 12/5 is a realtor-deutschebag. Trying to portray me as a bull…how adolescent.
And yes the spelling of that word was intentional since Deutsche Bank probably owns the CDOs. Lets bail out more banks and ship more US taxpayer dollars over to foreign investment banks! Maybe Hanky boy will start to grow some hair then!
So the TARP auction is back on, I can’t wait to send hundreds of billions of US dollars overseas! Oh wait we’ve already done that with our fanciful war. Whats another 300B on top of several trillions? Icing on the cake, I say.
Yes- T2. I stand by that comment.
This was the mother of all real estate bubbles and will also be among the worst busts.
The housing market, overall, will be very much like the NASDAQ. It won’t recover for decades. I’m not saying people won’t be able to buy real estate and make money during that time period. They will. But those who bought during the boom and held on will not see much of a return for a long, long time.
Sabrina,
Your response had nothing to do with my question. Do you honestly believe that there won’t be another building built in Chicago for 20 years?
No high-rise condo buildings will be built in the downtown area for 20 years. There will still be construction- of course.
This post has to do with the market in River North and the downtown area. There are 10,000 condos ready to come on the market and NO demand.
It will take years for that inventory to dry up. And it will take decades before developers wade back in (if history is any indication.)
They’re building apartment buildings right now but that will dry up too.
Actually- there wasn’t a single new apartment building (which is what they were known back then- there were no condo buildings) built in Chicago from 1930 to 1936. That is in the ENTIRE city. It took many more years before they were again building the high-rises downtown. It was the 1950s and well into the 1960s.
Bob and jay are just dumb realtor shills. Who would actually believe that B.S. at this point? I’m sure that a year ago they were among the crowd who was saying a real estate decline for Chicago wasn’t even possible. Now they’ll be shrieking “buy now before prices go up” for the next 10 years or however long the real estate recovery takes.
Silly bloggers….it was a credit bubble, not a housing/asset bubble. As such, people’s ability to purchase large assets with high leverage when they have little savings has permanently declined….the demand trendline made a dramatic shift down at a time of historic over supply even at that credit bubble demand level. Deflation is here and we are in a liquidity trap….the downward trend is here through 2009 and no one can stop it, the fed govt and macro econ factors will only keep it from spiraling utterly out of control … 2009 is can be pretty much written off now. Using credit (debt) for financing capitalism will need to get cut by a third and we’ll return to financing through equities instead. Debt had taken on the risk of equities, that won’t happen again. See post from a long long time ago on that subject.
“Debt had taken on the risk of equities, that won’t happen again.”
C’mon. “Won’t happen again”? It’ll happen again; maybe not in our lifetimes, but it will happen again.
The trib is probably going file BK this week. Sam Zell’s debt fueled orgy is coming to an end.
“The trib is probably going file BK this week. Sam Zell’s debt fueled orgy is coming to an end.”
Don’t be absurd. They just retained BK advisors and counsel–unless there is an imminent default (and no, that $65mm (or whatever) that’s due soon isn’t the tipping point), no company the size of Tribune can be prepped for filing in 7 days.
They’re retaining advisors and lawyers (likely) b/c of the pending Cubs sale and being smart about pre-BK planning to avoid an avoidance action on the sale of any major assets. Watch for them to file 91 days after the closing of the Cubs sale, if that happens in the next 90 days as currently suggested.
Anon(tfo) – you see I don’t make this stuff up.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-mon_tribune-weighs-optionsdec08,0,7968257.story
Tribune Co. hires bankruptcy advisers
Debt-laden media company exploring restructuring options
By Phil Rosenthal and Michael Oneal | Tribune reporters
December 8, 2008
Chicago Tribune parent Tribune Co. is working with bankruptcy advisers at investment bank Lazard and law firm Sidley Austin to weigh financial options, including a possible restructuring for the heavily leveraged media company, sources said Sunday….
…
Tribune Co.’s debt trades on the open market for a fraction of its original value, and analysts suspect those banks have already written off their exposure. So the lenders may be willing to negotiate a lower level of debt. But these discussions are always tricky, which is why Tribune Co. has sought bankruptcy counsel, sources said.
The company hired Lazard in recent weeks. It has had a long-standing relationship with Sidley Austin.
…
Drudge might be jumping the gun saying “This week” but you don’t specifically hire bankruptcy counsel to explore options, you hire to file bankruptcy. I bet the lawyers at Sidley Austin billed 72 hours each this past weekend.
“there wasn’t a single new apartment building …built in Chicago from 1930 to 1936”
So let me get this straight- because no buildings were built in Chicago during 6 years of the Great Depression 70 years ago, there won’t be another new building built here for 20 years? Is that really your logic?
First let me tell you I’m NOT a realtor. I’m actually a Psychologist who has done alot of research and currently in the market for a condo in the River North area. There is no doubt the current market is terrible…we all agree on that. The question is about the future and I believe it looks very good given the fact that prices have held up well, and supply demand issues should improve significantly over the next few years. Check this link and read the article and you’ll see I’m not making this up…things will improve. Just my opinion.
http://yochicago.com/magazine/columnists/gail-lissner/gail-lissner-condo-development-trends-see-a-change-of-pace_1092
HA! THAT’S hilarious. That is rich, so rich.
“Bob on December 8th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
First let me tell you I’m NOT a realtor. I’m actually a Psychologist who has done alot of research and currently in the market for a condo in the River North area. There is no doubt the current market is terrible…we all agree on that. The question is about the future and I believe it looks very good given the fact that prices have held up well, and supply demand issues should improve significantly over the next few years. Check this link and read the article and you’ll see I’m not making this up…things will improve. Just my opinion.
http://yochicago.com/magazine/columnists/gail-lissner/gail-lissner-condo-development-trends-see-a-change-of-pace_1092“
“you don’t specifically hire bankruptcy counsel to explore options, you hire to file bankruptcy.”
Okay, you’re the expert. Notwithstanding any facts of caompanies (e.g., GM in 2005) prepping for BK and not actually filing, you’re right.
As I said, I expect them to file. I just don’t see them doing so imminently, for a lot of reasons. Cubs sale closes, count 91 days (or maybe the first Sunday thereafter)–that’s my prediction.
“That is rich, so rich.”
Leave it to HomoDelete to provide no evidence supporting his position. Why would a low-paid paralegal need any evidence to support his predictions for our economic future? Much easier for him to laugh and keep hoping he can afford a place someday….
I just read the article that was posted. See, that’s what’s called a “balanced” argument. It’s not super bullish or super bearish. It looks at both sides takes them into account. Some of you on here may want to practice listening to people who don’t agree with your extremist, world-ending views…
“Leave it to HomoDelete”
Knock it off. This ridiculously damages your credibility. Indeed, I suggest changing your posting name so as to avoid being known as the homophobe.
T2 said, “Leave it to HomoDelete”
Really puting that “Tier 2” education to work, aren’t you T2?
To think, you accused me of namecalling.
What’s with all of the new complainers around here, anyway?
That YoChicago article is a steaming pile of Realtor B.S. I didn’t think anyone could still keep a straight face while writing crap like that. The writer makes it sound like Chicago will suddenly run out of condos, with barely any mention of the severe inventory glut which will take years to absorb. And pre-sales are really a meaningless indicator of market health when you consider how many of these buyers have failed to close in the past year or so. Wasn’t the Waterview tower about 60% “sold” when it was halted?
I guess puff pieces like this might still hook an unsuspecting potential buyer, which will be the only way to get sales in the immediate future.
Okay, I was wrong about Tribune. Really surprises me–can’t believe that they did a freefall filing.
Bob at 12:03pm, give it a rest. I was the first Bob here and I will refute your ridiculous bullishness and cheerleading at every step. I suggest you adopt a new moniker or else people will confuse us, and you will be perceived as continuously contradicting yourself as I have the opposite take on the RE market.
THIS Bob does NOT agree with your opinion.
Junior and senior associates Sidley must have worked all weekend. No holiday parties for them. The first clue was that the story was released on a sunday night….which means they were working all sunday night….b/c that’s what those big firm lawyers do. They get paid the big bucks to be available to corporate clients 24/7. Zell decides on Thursday he wants to go BK and then it gets filed Monday morning.
“Tribune, Publisher of Chicago Tribune, Files for Bankruptcy
By Dawn McCarty and Erik Larson
Dec. 8 (Bloomberg) — Tribune Co., publisher of the Chicago Tribune and Los Angeles Times, sought bankruptcy court protection from creditors amid declines in advertising sales.
The company, acquired last year by investor Sam Zell for $8.3 billion, listed assets of $7.6 billion and debt of $12.13 billion in a Chapter 11 petition filed today in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Wilmington, Delaware.
To contact the reporters on this story: To contact the reporter on this story: Dawn McCarty in Wilmington, Delaware, at dmccarty@bloomberg.net“
Whatever the story is with the Trib, this statement is simply false: “but you don’t specifically hire bankruptcy counsel to explore options, you hire to file bankruptcy.”
Large companies (like F500s) have bankruptcy attys on retainer as a matter of course.
You don’t go to a divorce lawyer to reconcile your marriage, you don’t go to Burger King to order health food and you don’t hire Sidley Austin to ponder bankruptcy.
What is the old line about people and families always rising and falling in America?
Re: Sam- A food and his money are soon parted.
Apparently more than one saw this in the pipeline when his takeover was announced 18 months ago.
http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2008/12/08/the-tribune-buyout-was-it-ever-a-good-idea/
Too bad his ego overrode his financial sense. People with that trait rarely acquire large sums of money. And however they get these sums, they almost never keep them.
“you don’t hire Sidley Austin to ponder bankruptcy”
What, you hire Kirkland? Or Weil Gotshal? Or Skadden? All have been retained multiple times over the years as debtor’s counsel by companies who did not end up filing. Your notions are simply wrong, HD, just as I was wrong about Tribune’s timing.
I’m shocked that they couldn’t roll the $69mm that was due. They were current on ~99.5% of their debt and were brought down by 54 bips.
There are a number of related companies that didn’t file–most notably the Cubs.
“Too bad [Zell’s] ego overrode his financial sense.”
Um, from your link: “it lowered Zell’s own price tag to $315 million”.
Zell got control of the company while risking less than 10% of his net worth. He totally screwed the employees, but his personal risk was/is minimal. If it had worked out (yes, doubtful from the start), he would have done well–he basically served as his on PE fund with a one company portfolio. So, his financial sense is not-too-much the worse for the failure, altho it really does say something about his outsized ego that he thought it might work.
The Cubs didn’t file but b/c they are owned by the trib they are an asset in the bk.
You are simply, flat-out wrong, homedelete. See second paragraph of the abstract here: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=359241
Or read the whole paper.
But this is just a fact of large, responsibly-run organizations.
“The Cubs didn’t file but b/c they are owned by the trib they are an asset in the bk.”
Criminy, can’t believe that I failed to think of this–selling the Cubs out of the estate will likely allow Tribune to avoid the capital gains tax w/o pissing off MLB and Selig. Brilliant!
Do you seriously want to have a pissing contest over the following statement?
““you don’t specifically hire bankruptcy counsel to explore options, you hire to file bankruptcy.””
Because I don’t. And it’s not because I’m wrong either (because I’m not). It’s because it’s not realy worth any of us wasting bandwidth over such a trivial argument. I think we have bigger fish to fry, don’t we?
K: “Large companies (like F500s) have bankruptcy attys on retainer as a matter of course.”
Well, the one’s they have on retainer “as a matter of course” are mostly to deal with bankruptcy/creditors’ rights issues of their suppliers and customers, rather than their own potential prepping for a chapter filing.
But large corporations do retain debtor’s counsel to prepare a filing and not follow through on an actual BK filing–it is often more prudent to be prepared than to have to scramble and make a mess of things at the last minute.
“And it’s not because I’m wrong either (because I’m not). ”
You ARE wrong. And you’re too stubborn to admit it, which you are consitent about.
You’re a lawyer; you know why I can’t give specifics about why I KNOW you are wrong. Suffice to say I have worked on no fewer than 6 cases for 9-plus-figure businesses that were prepped to file “next week” and did not–and no more than two of those ever filed in the half-decade since I did that work.
Once again, when you are losing an argument, your response is, “Let’s just drop it, ok?”
So, ok. Consider it dropped. But somehow, I doubt this is the last YOU’LL write on it.
Well, K, one thing that all this accomplished was to bury T2’s inexcusable, sophmoric insult of HD.
You’re putting the cart before the horse. You hire bankruptcy counsel to go bk; if at a later point the company changes its mind, well that’s something completely different. But when you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay $500 an hour lawyers and $180 an hour paralegals to prepare a bk petition, you’re getting ready to file. It’s not only the threat of filing but the preparation to file that can scare the creditors in to renegotiation or reorganization which postpones or cancels the bk.
Wow, the time delay is causing problems – i’m dropping it now, I was responding to anon(tfo)
“Kenworthey on December 8th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Once again, when you are losing an argument, your response is, “Let’s just drop it, ok?”
So, ok. Consider it dropped. But somehow, I doubt this is the last YOU’LL write on it.”
It’s over but go ahead and put in the final word if you want, everyone else in my life has been giving it to me really good lately so what’s a little more….
From the WSJ, one of the Tribunes most pressing concerns was that
“The company is likely to be in violation of debt terms that limit borrowings at the end of the year to nine times its adjusted profits. The ratio stood at 8.3 at the end of the second quarter, before Tribune reported an 83% decline in operating profit for the three months ended Sept 28.”
anon (tfo) “I’m shocked that they couldn’t roll the $69mm that was due. They were current on ~99.5% of their debt and were brought down by 54 bips.”
“But when you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars … to prepare a bk petition, you’re getting ready to file.”
Now you’re backpedaling to provide yourself a plausible out if it comes up again.
That wasn’t what you said upthread–“you don’t specifically hire bankruptcy counsel to explore options, you hire to file bankruptcy”, “you don’t hire Sidley Austin to ponder bankruptcy” and “And it’s not because I’m wrong either (because I’m not).”
Now you’re saying that a company might, but only if they’re serious about it being an option. Yep, that’s true, and if it had been what you said in the first, second or third instance, this wouldn’t have dragged on so long.
I was totally, abjectly wrong about the timing; it’s easy to be wrong, esp. on the intertubes where it doesn’t really matter. You’re weaseling your way into “you misinterperated me” when you could just own up to a minor mistake and move on. Stubborn.
I don’t care if T2 or the shill call me names. Homodelete is so juvenile. Especially coming from some analyst for hedge funds. Hahaha!
I realize I have a loud personality on this boards and that offends some. On other boards I just lurk and on some I post only once in a while.
But you know, you can’t please all the people all the time, this is an an anonymous internet board of al places. We all can write things here that I would never say in polite company…..meet me in person and I always say, “real estate is going to come back after the superbowl.” I swear to god that’s what I say to anyone other than my closest friends.
We’re all stubbon anon(tfo)…we have to be…..(You know, judge, now that you mention it – the gloves did seem fit albeit a little tight..) that would never fly.
Lawyers arguing about legal nuances. Arrgh does anyone have any wet paint they can loan me that I can watch dry?
Wow, you guys need to lighten up a bit!
“Wow, you guys need to lighten up a bit!”
Would you ever use a racist insult? Same thing, dude. And no, I won’t lighten up on it.
Thank you Bob, Jay, and Jack for addressing my question in what I mistakenly thought was the appropriate forum to ask. I applaud the fact that the rest of you have time to go on ranting. If I expect to pay for this unit, I for one, do not. Happy Holidays all.
Mike, if you found those replies helpful there is nothing anyone else can add.
Expect, perhaps, that if you do not expect to have any freetime in order to pay for this unit, then you are probably committing financial suicide.
What insult? I said nothing negative about anyone. Chill out!
“What insult? I said nothing negative about anyone. Chill out!”
T2 on December 8th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
“Leave it to HomoDelete”
Maybe it was just a typo, but if so, a most unfortunate one.
Luke, you are either naive or just a moron. The prices in these buildings WILL begin to fall because its a matter of supply and demand in a deteriorating economy where loans are much harder to get than when these developers set their prices. Expect to see many of these developers default on their construction loans when buyers can’t close. i feel sorry for whoever accepts delivery of these properties b/c it will be a LONG time before they recapture their “investment”.
i ended up renting this unit – i love it!!! incredible city views – and yes from EVERY room (if you open up the bathroom door .lol) the building is great – and the cabinets are really nice – rabbit joints and the self close. the countertop is really nice – its not white its a really cool grey/white with silver specs. (anyways you seal granite so its not an issue) – i just cant wait till the walgreens opens up. the gym is really nice to.
you guys got this one wrong! couldnt be happier – wanted to buy but didnt have the 10% – side note I had it appraised – 487k! (didnt tell the owner 😉 )
Jay:
How many people are actually living in the building? When you walk by most of the units still have the developer’s window stickers (and no furniture.)
Also- how is the El noise there? Just wondering since it runs right along the side of the building.
Thanks.
“side note I had it appraised – 487k! (didnt tell the owner )”
Why the **** would you appraise your rental unit? Unless you enjoy throwing $200 dollars away?
This building is a disaster. They have only closed on 20% of the units and most people who bought have already backed out. The quality of the units is very poor and they are significantly overpriced. They have FORECLOSURE lawsuits against them for millions of dollars and Gammonley will probably be bankrupt within the year. For additional FORECLOSURE information please see article below.
http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=33110
you can not hear the brown line but my unit is a little farther west of the L. there is actually a lot of people living here.
and I had it appraised for my own knowledge. I looked over the appraisal it was pretty solid.
the location is great..can’t wait for the weather. I eay mr.beef at least 2 a week.
Joe-
I live in the building, and have a couple of comments:
1. as of a few months ago, occupancy was over 30%, so I am not sure where you get your 20% figure from. In the last 6 weeks the building has gotten quite a bit busier. I have spoken to quite a few individuals in the elevators over the past weeks (mainly on the weekends) who are there looking at the model and meeting with sales agents. Despite the end of the world scenario that many like to paint on this website, things are moving, units are selling, and people are moving in.
2. To say Gammonley is foreclosing on loans relating to this property due to another development they are involved in is simply false. The legal entities formed to develop each property are legally separate. Any foreclosure suits against the other development are directed towards the legal entity developing that project (which is not simply “Gammonley Group”). All developers do this in order to isolate projects from the legal reach of other parties.
I happen to be very happy here (I have been here for just about 5 months). The neighborhood and proximity to loop / short commute to work is very nice. Building management, engineer, and door staff are all good people. You are more than welcome to think that units are overpriced or the end of the world will come to anyone who goes near this building, but a great number of us who own & live in the building are very happy. As more people move in every week, the number of people who are happy to live here grows.
Is there a reason why I have seen one of the units listed on dreamtown.com for about 350K, yet the exact same unit on the mls is listed for 399K? Can anyone explain that?
Anybody who bought these inflated prices deserves what is coming…,I guarantee Lasalle bank is going to foreclose on this property as the loan is due but the developer cannot repay. Prices will not drop until lasalle seizes control of the property and sells at market prices. I sell snake oil for a living and encourage every unit owner to contact me for a special deal that won’t last. Rotflmao!!!