Selling 2 Years Later in East Lakeview: 646 W. Wellington
Are the condo conversions and new construction properties the most at risk of price declines in this housing market?
This 3-bedroom 2007 vintage conversion at 646 W. Wellington in East Lakeview just came on the market and has already had one price reduction.
It is now listed for only $9,000 above its 2007 selling price.
It has all the bells and whistles of the upscale conversion: Viking and Bosch kitchen appliances, crown molding, new hardwood floors and “oil rubbed bronze hardware”.
It also has the all-important parking space included.
Stuart Schwartz of @Properties has the listing. See the pictures and listing here.
Unit #2: 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, no square footage listed
- Sold in January 2007 for $580,000
- Originally listed in January 2008 for $599,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $589,000
- Assessments are $160 a month
- Taxes are “new”
- Central Air
- W/D
- Parking spot
It ought to be listed at 30% below its 2007 listing price, just to be in line with what is happening to prices coast to coast, including “prime” neighborhoods.
There’s really no reason to pay more than the 2002 price (or what the unit would have been priced at then were it for sale) for anything.
These laughable ask prices that are still above 2006 remind me of the Beatles song with the lyrics “nothings gonna change my world”.
Just because the economy is collapsing, unemployment is skyrocketing, the stock market crashed and credit standards are significantly tighter is not going to ruin this sellers God given right to real estate depreciation no matter what.
I would say they’re going to be bringing money to the table but as we’ve seen during the bubble these purchasers in 2003-2008 often times don’t have it. So they will stay put in this unit.
Depreciation should’ve read appreciation. But its the former they’re going to experience in reality not the latter.
Dinky bedrooms. And pictures that won’t enlarge beyond thumbnails doesn’t help with the marketing.
Low assessments are nice. decent layout. imo the bedrooms aren’t that small or bad (but could use a painting or 2 on the walls). Price is laughable, of course.
My guess is foreclosure and selling at 525K
I doubt it will go to foreclosure. (Short Sale is much more likely) This is a great property in an awesome area. I agree that the price is a bit high given the lack of buyers at this price point, but they seller should be able to get around $550,000 for it.
After all if buyers are willing to pay $500,000 for 3/2 on Ashland, then a nicely upgraded 3/2 near the lake and not on a busy street should command some sort of premium.
This place looks great (though the dimensions do seem a tad small, and it has the unfortunately all-too-common open kitchen/dining/living area).
My guess is that whatever “3/2 on Ashland” that allegedly sold for $500k was much larger than this place (and perhaps had a garage as well?).
I plan to look at this place. Assuming that I can convince myself that the open kitchen/dining/living area is acceptable, and assuming that the seller comes to realize the realities of this market and warms to the prospect of selling for under $500k, we might have a deal. Otherwise, a few months from now, perhaps the seller will rent it to me for $2,500/mo!
“if buyers are willing to pay $500,000 for 3/2 on Ashland”
Has that happened in the last six months? Except, perhaps, in a new construction with substantial deposit situation?
“seller should be able to get around $550,000 for it.”
Comforming mortgage w/ 20% equals $521,250. I don’t see why anything in the $550 to 600k asking price ballpark should sell for more than that in the near future. And that *still* is limited to folks with $100k sitting around (yes, I know the 2d mortgage market isn’t dead, but it’s on life support).
GOOD LUCK! I looked at these condos two years ago and thought they were overpriced then! Small bedrooms, non-existent closet space and an outdoor parking spot to boot! No thanks
“the bedrooms aren’t that small”
The bedrooms are objectively not large. From the listing:
Master Bedroom: 13X11
Bedroom 2: 12X11
Bedroom 3: 11X10
The livin’ the dream urbanite 550k condo is a thing of the past. You can get a nice large house for that amount of money. Anybody who can afford a realistic downpayment (100k) on a 521k mortgage will likely be old and mature enough to want a SFH over a condo.
The days of 20-somethings buying places like this at ridiculous values are over.
Where in East Lakeview can one get a nice large house for $550k?
The scary thing I’m seeing is that when you lose your job, you will go a long time without finding a suitable replacement, if you can find anything at all. I know quite a few people who were making a decent buck during the last few years but lost their jobs. They have been unable to find anything near what they were being paid before. Losing your job lately is the kiss of death. Plenty of industries have been decimated and those jobs are not coming back (RE construction, contracting, realtors, finance, mortgage brokers, etc, retail, investment banking, hedge funds, private equity, etc). Good bye: nice cars, expensive mortgage payments, fancy vacations, etc. Hello: foreclosure, eviction, reposession, harassing phone calls from creditors and eventually BK.
One thing I’ve always tried to do is to live a lifestyle whereby if I unexpectedly lost my job, I could pay all my bills with unemployment (except student loans) and keep my savings. That’s why I have a 2 bedroom apt I share with my SO and she also has a decent paying job. My half of the rent is pennies compared to my overall income and the same is true for the lady. Yes my lifestyle is pretty simple (a little too simple at times I think) but it’s a strategy for survival that I hope works. if i had to live off unemployment I would have to tighten my belt a tad – no more eating out, turn the heat down to 60 degrees (wear sweaters) the cat woudl have to eat the cheap food instead of the expensive stuff, more veges less meat, save every scrap and turn it into another meal, etc etc etc. God that would suck but I could do, I know my budget and spending habits enough that I could do it, begrudingly, but i could make it work.
“The days of 20-somethings buying places like this at ridiculous values are over.”
“Where in East Lakeview can one get a nice large house for $550k?”
Oh, anonny, you’ve been seduced by the foolishness of yuppie-dom, status-climbers and misguided trendiness. East Lakeview is for those who don’t know better. Any reasonable person would much rather have a big house in McKinley Park than anything in East Lakeview.
(In Bob-voice, in case you couldn’t tell)
anon(tfo),
I couldn’t have said it better myself! Thanks for filling in for me during my coffee break.
Where is McKinley Park? Please pardon my ignorance; I’ve only lived in Chicago for a couple of years (but married someone who grew up here). From what I can tell, the nicest places to live are along the lake, be it from Evanston all the way up through Lake Forest, or from Lakeview East down to the Gold Coast.
I know, I know, everybody living in Winnetka or Lincoln Park is “foolish” and “misguided.” Apparently the “trendiness” of living in such foolish areas has been around for a while, given the century-old houses and buildings that were built for all those “status-climbers.”
East Lakeview, Winnetka, and other pricey nabes and burbs are great if you can really afford them, and a good number of the people trying to deal in these places really cannot, but spend half their incomes on housing while making immense sacrifices in every other area of life just to say they live in these areas.
If you have to pay 5x your income for a high-maintenance, older one-bed unit that needs work, you might want to look for a cheaper neighborhood. You can get over to Lakeview or downtown any time you want easily just to hang out and enjoy the atmosphere, and you might actually find life more congenial in another area, especially if parking is an issue with you.
Why bankrupt yourself just to have a particular zip code? Yeah, these neighborhoods are great, but a lot of their advantages will be lost on you when you can scarcely clear enough money to pay your taxes and utilities and bare living expenses after paying your mortgage? What fun is living in the middle of exciting commercial and dozens of enticing restaurants when you’re so tight you have live on peanut butter and Raman noodles?
There are plenty of nice areas to live in that aren’t along the lake. Most of the NW suburbs are decent (although I’m a bit biased) such as inverness and barrington, as are most of the northern suburbs just in from the northshore (northbrook, glenview) Portions of DuPage County are considered extremely weathly (burr ridge, st charles, hinsale, etc) and into kane too (geneva, wayne)….Many of the neighborhoods with the highest median prices are on the NW side.
annony:
I was joking; Bob is (as far as I can tell) serious. Live wherever makes you happy, is my feeling; but if the cost is stressing you out, then you aren’t really happy, are you? I wouldn’t be happy in ELV, b/c I don’t want a condo (no matter how big) and the SFHs are too expensive for me to be comfortable.
McK Park is on the SW side; somewhere approximately as far from the loop as parts of Lakeview. I, frankly, couldn’t tell you exactly where w/o looking it up. South of the Eisenhower ain’t my thing; but I don’t care if it’s someone else’s. Apparently, you can get a large, brand new SFH for ~$600k in McK Park right now, and they’re headed down; Bob’s buying when the price fits his budget and DP kitty.
“Portions of DuPage County are considered extremely weathly”
That’s probably their biggest drawback. Nice area, nice houses (some not too overpriced), good schools, closest place to the Loop outside of Cook County. But those damn “wealthy” people can be a real drag (and yes, I do realize that many would probably say the same about me–I. Don’t. Care.). I hate going anyplace in Oak Brook b/c of the too common look-down-my-nose-at-you attitude with no good basis (yes, not everyone; yes, likely worse in some north shore areas; but this is a rant about DuPage).
I’ve lived in East Lakeview and currently live in (east) Lincoln Park (thus far as a renter). This morning, I stepped out of my building at 6:30 and took a run, most of which took place in the park and on the lakefront. I then hopped an express bus to the loop, which took less than 20 minutes. Not a bad way to start the day. Tomorrow, if weather permits, perhaps I’ll take a bike ride along the lake. If it’s fairly nice on Sunday, I’ll likely take a run in the morning and then take a nice stroll through the park in the afternoon. In a couple of months, my weekends will (hopefully) look the same, except I’ll be pushing a baby stroller around the park and through the zoo, stopping off at the farmer’s market, etc.
The above is how I prefer to spend my non-working DAYTIME hours. Yes, there are several decent places to eat in LP and East Lakeview (though one would think that there would be more). However, I’d say that I dine in the W. Loop, Bucktown, Old Town or Gold Coast (typically one, but occasionally two nights a week) more often that I do in LP or ELV, which is to say that I either take a bus, cab or drive to those areas to eat, just as I would do if I were going to see a band, the symphony, the Art Institute, etc. That accounts for my non-working EVENING hours, most of which are spent at home.
If one enjoys running, cycling, walking or simply spending a lot of time outdoors, living within blocks of Lincoln Park and the lakefront cannot be beat – no other major city in the country compares in that regard (Central Park and the Hudson/E. River are great, but Lincoln Park and the lakefront are far cleaner, less populated and more naturally beautiful). When one talks with non-Chicagoans throughout the nation and world who say that they “love Chicago” or that “Chicago is so great” (and many do), they tend to have in mind the city’s cultural institutions, professional sports teams/venues (namely Wrigley and Soldier Field), the loop/river/architecture, the MagMile/shopping, Millennium Park and the Burnham-planned lakefront.
The only reason I would ever live farther than about a mile from the park/lakefront would be if I had more than 2 children, in which case I would need to live in a 4+ bedroom house (which, unless I start to play and eventually win the lottery, would unfortunately not be located on the northshore). But then Chicago would cease to be a city for me and would instead merely serve as a workplace (i.e., the place where my office is located). At that point, why not live in a small town in the mountains or near an ocean, or in a mid-size city such as Atlanta, Denver, etc.? Chicago is cheaper than NYC or the nice parts of LA or SF, but there are much cheaper places to live in this country than DuPage County, McKinely Park, or wherever one wants to get most house with $500k. (And many such places have much nicer winters and summers, less crime, less corupt political establishments, lower taxes, greater topographical diversity, etc.)
You’re all realestateophiles, otherwise you wouldn’t visit this blog. You thus know that “location” is famously repeated three times when real estate is the topic of discussion. Were this a personal property blog, devoted say, for instance, to cars, we could simply talk about the quality of a given car and how nice a car one could obtain for a certain price, regardless of the car’s location in the greater Chicagoland area. One’s Toyota or Audi or Ford or Lexus is the same, whether it’s parked in McKinley Park or Lincoln Park. But when it comes to real property – that “stuff they’re not making any more of” – there is a lot more to it than the “status” of one’s zip code.
I live on the lakefront in Rogers Park, in a good section of this area, and intend to buy on the lakefront in Edgewater. I’ve enjoyed all the advantages of lakefront neighborhoods up here- walkability, proximity to good public transit, dense commercial and entertainment, without the expense of Lakeview or Lincoln Park.
Would I move to one of those nabes if I could really, truly afford it? Yes, but ONLY if I could honestly afford it well enough to have money left over to save and enjoy the area.Maybe I’d just stay tucked in a beautiful old place in East Edgewater, which now has enviably low crime rates (unlike Rogers Park), and get twice as much space for money, plus beaches without a huge clutter of boats.
You don’t have to move to some dull burb to get affordability and safety. The northwest side has many walkable areas close to the Jefferson Park and Montrose el stations on the Blue Line.
A note on Chicago Public Schools… they differ greatly from one to the next. If you live in Jefferson Park, your kids can go to Stienmetz or Platt High School, which are great schools, full of motivated, well-disciplined kids from good homes. That’s the ticket- there is nothing wrong with these schools that wouldn’t be put right by getting rid of the troublemakers. Unfortunately, those comprise about 90% of the student body in some schools. A young girl at Sullivan told me the quality of instruction there was just fine-she was getting physics and the advanced math she needed for college. But walking the halls was scary.
Rogers Park and Edgewater are great if you work in the Northern Suburbs. Kinda blows to get downtown to the loop, 45 minutes on the red line… no thanks!
Laura: “A note on Chicago Public Schools…”
How dare you say that CPS high schools are even acceptable, much less fine, nevemind good. HD and Bob (and many others here) have driven by a couple of them a few times and **know** they’re crap, have been crap and will remain crap into the distant future.
“A young girl at Sullivan told me … walking the halls was scary.”
And there are some kids at (almost) every high school in America for whom the same would be true. It’s not a problem unique to CPS, altho denying that *is* worse on average in CPS would be foolish.
Back to the topic of this thread…
For half a million dollars I do not want people clomping over my head (this is a second floor).
At this price point that is easily accomplished.
If the second floor does not bother you then the decorating here should.
These people should not have bothered painting.
Now, as far as CPS, some of my good friends are teachers in the system and I would not allow them to teach my dog to sit….
their TV reminds me of an episode of the Office (party at Jan’s and Michael’s place) http://www.watchingtheoffice.com/the-office-season-4-episode-9-dinner-party/
LMAO… knew exactly what you were talking about without re-watching the office. I also like how their entertainment center is actually a bedroom dresser.
Lately typically I’ve been against higher technology intrusion into our daily lives. But in this case it allows us all to collectively LOL at the ridiculous overpricedness that has afflicted most ‘hoods like this.
600k for a 3/2? LOLOL!
Guess what people without unlimited credit? If you got a couple of rugrats its time to re-prioritize your lifestyle and you don’t need to be living near da bars no more. Yeah you might not look as cool in front of your friends but theres a suburb and a Metra stop with your name on it.
As I’ve said before and I’ll say again: the age of the 500k+ condo is well over. If you currently own one sorry but condos were never designed to be 500k+ properties unless they are downtown penthouses. Sorry.
To anon, on your comment regarding Chicago Public Schools:
Stienmetz , located on the northwest side, is one of the top-ranked high schools in the nation, and produces graduates with top test scores and distinguished academic records. Platt is almost as well-regarded. There are no fights in the hallways at these schools. These schools have student bodies comprised of orderly, motivated kids from well-run homes headed by parents to whom academic achievement and intellectual development are top priorities. Lane Tech, though it has deteriorated somewhat, is still a well-regarded school, and you will be doing well for your kids if you can get them in there, and if they can maintain the grades necessary to stay there.
Overall, you are correct, though- most Chicago schools stink, mainly because of the quality of the students attending them, and the near-impossibility of evicting troublemakers and delinquents. You can’t learn when 90% of the students alongside you start fights in the hallways, disrupt classes, start fires in the lunchroom, or jump you every time they see you and slam your head into a locker. I’d rather home-school a kid than send her to Sullivan or Lakeview High School.
90%, Laura? 90% of the students at CPS schools are troublemakers and delinquents?
Give me a break.
ReminderL
We’re not here to discuss the interior decorating (paint colors, choice of furniture etc.) It might not be to your taste, but that’s why they invented Home Depot and furniture stores. You can change it when you buy the property and move in.
Thanks.
At this price point I would also expect a fireplace. I think many potential buyers have it on their check-list, especially for this asking price.
If I recall I think this unit was on the market for a long time before it sold. If it was a long time a few years ago then what can they expect now?
Bob,
Not everyone shares your dream of saving enough living in their studio, up until they can buy a SFH in the burbs – which, turn out to be a complete rip-off compared to Ohio. Some financially-reckless yuppie punks prefer a nice place, short commute, and access to activities, independent of impressing their freinds. Also, it’s within the realm of possibilities that many wealthy retirees wouldn’t mind having access to restaurants, culture, a lake, without much maintenence.
“Yeah you might not look as cool in front of your friends but theres a suburb and a Metra stop with your name on it.
As I’ve said before and I’ll say again: the age of the 500k+ condo is well over. If you currently own one sorry but condos were never designed to be 500k+ properties unless they are downtown penthouses. Sorry.”
Fullhouse,
I am not criticizing condo buyers, I am criticizing 550k condo buyers. And I don’t plan to get a SFH in the burbs. For my plan look no further than anon(tfo)’s impression of me at 10:26a. Quite honestly he has me pegged pretty well. 😀
And I’m saying rumors of the 500k+ condo’s death have been greatly exaggerated. It’s not for everyone, but there is still a large group of people for whom it is a completely reasonable purchase/investment… A studio in the city, a SFH home in McKinley Park, or SFH in Cincinnati aren’t the only 3 rational choices for everyone.
A reasonable purchase? Sure, because that is in the eye of the beholder.
A reasonable investment? No way. Does anyone have an example of a $500K+ condo that is a reasonble investment today?
Sure for those with family wealth dating back to the Industrial Revolution…but for the rest of us wage earners it’s a completely different story.
” but there is still a large group of people for whom it is a completely reasonable purchase/investment…”
G – I didn’t mean today – clearly housing is in bad shape for the next year, maybe more, regardless of the price of the home. However, once credit returns and consumer confidence returns, housing will be a good investment – when you factor in the tax breaks, it’s had a good return/risk profile in addition to being an inflation hedge. As far as $500K, it’s just a random value that fewer people can afford – if it’s reasonable for one person/couple buy a $250K condo and another couple has twice the income, is it unreasonable for them to buy a $500K condo? If anything, they would have more than 2x the disposable income/savings rate – possibly 3-4x.
HD – There is a high variance of incomes in this country, and I would imagine it would be far higher in Chicago – why shouldn’t there be high variance in condo prices? The median housing price in Chicago is over $250K – 2x isn’t really that absurd of price, and there is and will always be a market for it. It is ridiculous to say that everyone who has money inherited it.
fullhouse nothing is unreasonable about what you say, but, i think you overestimate the number of middle-to-high income earning households. the point i would try to make is that the number of supposedly $500k condos is much larger than the number of households that can actually afford them without exotic financing. I truly believe that much of wealth and bling out there is just a facade perpetuated by credit.
HD – Sounds like we agree… I think it will take a while for the supply/demand to stabilize and a lot of the apparent wealth was just overleverage. But, in the long run, the distribution of condo prices, will probably reflect the distribution of incomes, which is quite wide in this country.
In my neighborhood from walking around there are numerous 2/2 and 3/2 condos for the 450k+ price range.
I am being serious when I say this that around 80% are empty based on a random sampling of lights on any given night. They are ghost towns.
fullhouse, a dual income household usually also has kids or plans to have some. do you know what diapers cost/month?
Not sure how much they cost, and I didn’t mean to break out the distribution of single buyers vs couples of higher end condos… I’m just saying, given the income disparity in this country, I think there will be a market for condos that are 2x or more of the median price. Also, people are waiting longer to get married and have kids, which would seem to cause more demand for higher end condos, not to mention boomers possibly opting for city living.
It will take some time to stabilize given the oversupply and as people reduce leverage, although 80% excess capacity seems just a bit high (delinquincy rates are 7% on jumbo loans, which is heavily pulled up by florida and cali).
“do you know what diapers cost/month?”
Um, if you aren’t buying them at the bodega, it’s ~$40-50/month (maybe $60-70 if you obsess over changing them at the slightest wetness). And that’s pampers–the expensive ones. About one (super-jumbo) box from Amazon a month, decreasing after the first year.
Laura:
You missed my sarcasm. I’m fine with CPS, but am aware of the difficulties at most secondary schools. But, since I wouldn’t live in Englewood (or wherever), the quality of the attendance areas schools in Englewood isn’t an issue. Still, if my kids don’t get into a selective enrollment school, I won’t send them to Lakeview (unless it changes dramatically–which is distinctly possible, as many (most?) of the current students are not attendance area students anyway and the ‘hood is becoming more populated with families who don’t *intend* to move to the ‘burbs). But that’s 10 years away, anyway, so why would I have made a 20 year living decision based on what might be the case sometime in the future? Many of the best elementary schools in the state are CPS–and we bought where we did so admissions to one of them wouldn’t be an issue.
Fascinated by all this discussion. My family moved to this building in 1962 and I think the rent then was about $110 per month. My mom had to leave in 2005 when the new owners renovated the place (which I admit really did need it). Granted, my years on 646 Wellington occurred during a dramatically different time than what’s happening now. It always was a lively neighborhood (especially in late 1960s and early 1970s) and it is absolutely amazing to me to see how expensive and popular it has become. It’s also amazing to see pictures showing how much the old apartments have changed. I think the layout was much better before, although I grant you the kitchens were smaller and the bathroom was nowhere near the quality I see it is now. But we did have a pantry, a fireplace, and best of all, a real backyard. That’s probably the saddest part of the entire conversion. My dad spent a lot of hours landscaping and nurturing the area that is now nothing more than a parking slab. Had trees, bushes and lots of beautiful flowers. Now, nothing more than asphalt….Sad.