Back On the Market 11 Months Later But Reduced $45K: 8 E. Randolph in the Loop
We last chattered about this 30th floor 2-bedroom unit in 8 E. Randolph, otherwise known as MoMo or Joffrey Tower, depending on who you ask, in the Loop in October 2008 when it was being flipped.
See our prior chatter and pictures here.
Unit #3008 never sold and has now returned to the market reduced by $45,000.
The kitchen and baths have been upgraded with custom tile and the unit is painted.
It has west facing city views.
There is no parking listed for sale with the unit. Parking is very limited in the building. It was sold with only a select few 2-bedroom units. I don’t know if parking would even be available for purchase with this particular unit.
The last time this unit was the on the market, Lehman Brothers had just collapsed.
Will it have a better chance to sell this time around?
Anita Constant at Coldwell Banker once again has the listing. See the picture here.
Unit #3008: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1348 square feet
- Sold in June 2008 for $485,000
- Was listed in October 2008 for $595,000 (no parking)
- Cancelled
- Re-listed in September 2009 for $545,000 (no parking)
- Assessments of $635 a month
- Taxes are “new”
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
Why would the realtor post a night shot of the exterior of the building and daytime photos on the interior?
Ok question, why wouldnt someone go;
for the same price you can get a 2/2 310 s michigan,
or not as close but close enough in the Vetro with more sq ft or that RD25945551156 place for cheaper?
I’ll just rehash previous CC chatters on this place. The mail room is on the 8th floor. So you have to wait not once but TWICE for an elevator on your ride up. Every. Day. And it doesnt have a pool, if you get an east view its blocked by the building on Garland, and the west view blows. Not to mention everyone in 200 N. Dearborn looking into your apartment.
Overpriced cookie cutter crap in a decent downtown location but blocked views of the good stuff and bad views of the west.
OH BUT YOU CAN WATCH THE POLICE SHOOT HOMELESS PEOPLE FROM YOUR (west facing) BALCONY.!!!
I’m glad I rent.
Formerly known as “Momo” from the developers that brought you “SoNo”..I wonder when the developer is gonna go bankrupt themselves..can’t be far off. I just wonder who will go first, the developer or the flipper?
Lets see how many units are left from the developer with this floorplan:
Unit Ask(k) SquareFt
2705 469.9 1,348
2305 469.9 1,348
2101 474.9 1,360
2208 474.9 1,365
2301 480.9 1,360
2204 480.9 1,446
2601 494.9 1,365
Maybe the realtor took an exterior night pic to distinguish this unit from the seven other much cheaper units still available from the developer?
Damn I wish I could watch the police doing anything but sitting on their asses off of my south view. Frickin homeless jerkbags shouting all the time I’d like to shoot them myself, but I don’t have a gun. 🙁
I know an investor who bought like 10 or 12 units in that building for around $2 million or so. He is no where near broke though, worth around $20 million. I think he is just renting the places out to students.
“an investor who bought like 10 or 12 units in that building for around $2 million or so”
Even if they’re all 1-brs, he could probably still get out even, no?
Even some older well maintained buildings have the dual elevator setup. For example, to get to the units at the John Hancock, you need to take two elevators with a stop on the 44th floor.
“Frickin homeless jerkbags shouting all the time I’d like to shoot them myself,”
The other day two homeless bums set fire to one of the overflowing dumpsters outside my building (move out day). The fire department responded as if it was so routine they didn’t even turn on their engine sirens.
Anon(tfo): Probably. I know he got a good deal on them as he bought pre-construction and in “bulk”. I was looking to do a blanket loan on them for him. He was dabbling in RE investing as a “hobby.” Made all his loot in the dot com boom. I think he will be alright and the units do cash flow if I recall correctly. He put quite a bit down on them.
I think this unit looks ok. I guess after being a single family home for a few years now, typical 2/2 condos just don’t do it for me any more.
No way this place is going to go for more than the 2008 price imho.
Russ,
Those seven units I posted from the developer have been on the market for quite awhile and aren’t selling. If this is going to sell any time soon its going to sell for much less than the 2008 price.
What on earth does MoMo mean? I like the building but half a mil for a cookie cutter condo that costs 15% more than the other 2BD cookie cutters in the building? Not happening
What on earth does MoMo mean?
I think it was “Modern Momentum”
Bob: You are probably right in this case. The $545 price is a joke and prices were starting to stall and fall in June ’08 when it closed before. I could see the low to mid 400s though.
I think the name has to do with being near the museums and the art schools and entertainment around the area.
“a cookie cutter condo that costs 15% more than the other 2BD cookie cutters in the building”
But they put in a backsplash. And painted the place. That *must* be worth $60k to *someone*.
I looked at units in this building in early ’09 to hold as rental property and was in and out of it in about 15 minutes. While the exterior is okay and many of the units have nice views, everything inside from the lobby to unit finishes screams cheap. Combine that with very few amenities for a building of its size and virtually non-existent parking and it adds up to 3 strikes at the price point.
Without considering the problems this building/company is facing, I really do like this set up. Paint, layout and even the frosted glass does it for me. Nice building, bad timing.
Speaking of SoNo, I just got an email telling of prices being slashed at 860 West Blackhawk in “SoNo, Chicago’s hottest NEW neighborhood”. Over 30 units sold in just a few short weeks!!
I just read the comments from the previous chatter…funny how a few posters were predicting all out war in the streets over the economic meltdown and were planning on buying guns, stockpiling food, etc…well funny… but not funny.
Just an open ended question to anyone who is interested, where do YOU think we are now in this mess? Are we in the beginning, middle or are we *gasp* near the end? Just your own personal views and you don’t have to provide sources to back up your thoughts.
I know I took a few hits over the past year, but nothing of major proportions that many were predicting a year ago.
Thoughts anyone?
thoughts.. playing kick-the-can, for how long?
Losses have still not been taken, debt burden increased, everything done in past year has been the exact wrong thing. what won’t work on a micro level won’t magically work on a macro one. Businesses are living organisms and will do what’s necessary to survive. It will come at a cost to labor. global equilibrium will continue to dominate landscape next ten years…. good for the global have-nots.. not so good for the haves, horrendous for unskilled labor in U.S. yesterdays headline supports my continued pounding of this idea.
“U.S. productivity rises at fastest pace in nearly 6 years, while labor costs plunge”
Tom Friedman is the guy that laid it out the best many years ago.
That being said, still massive (greater than ever) opportunity to act globally.
That kickin of the can means that whatever inning you think this to be has a rain delay.
Elaborbate G?
LOL…G… yes, very well said.. I have seen this movie before MANY times. Almost always ends the same way. Banks are trying to fee up to roll out losses against earnings. All my foreign transaction fees went from 1% to 3%.. If they get past this the income would be enormous. Only problem is this doing this is an unproductive pull from efficient businesses. Should have buried them all. Quick – painful- move forward with a clean book. No one ever wants to do it but it is always the best way.
Basically westie.. you owe tons of money.. you are not producing positively against that debt. If you do take on more debt to try and earn your way out of the problem you make damn sure that debt is put to incredibly efficient uses, not just spend money to spend money without positive return on that spending. That is exactly what is being done. Just spend to make it all look good. I learned long long time ago .. If it doesn’t work on a Vanilla basis (and I know you are more than smart enough to accept what i said above) it won’t magically work on an exotic one.
here is another funny way to see it.. Assume I am a big bank. I buy an asset for 92 and can mark it at 99, so i take a profit of 7. It trades to 91 so I buy more and mark it at 99 again (since I am now allowed to by FASB) now i made even more (8). Then it trades 88 so I buy more and mark it at 98-or 99 again. I am making money hand over fist. Problem is cash flow. Well hell with that. I borrow cash or raise cash by selling equity to make sure my balance sheet has cash in it which I use to PAY MYSELF (TARP here???) he..he.. all lookie good on paper… eventually i drained all my cash… eventually cash flow doesn’t materialize.. Well i basically stole all the money.. paid myself. slap my hands together and show them to the casino manager looking down at me and leave the table with a big giant smile.. Your problem now!!! This is what was just done… normally this is fraud. Right now it is taxpayer supported and legal.
ok.. 3 serious comments from me.. not allowed.. i need to go check my little seedlings that broke soil surface last night… nice tasty buds to be!! 🙂
Commercial real estate is the big one now and it is decreasing in value as we speak. Banks need time to cover losses in property value.
The funny thing is I remember as a youngster watching this happen in 90-91 with Citibank. Worked very well actually. Difference is the losses are just massive this time around and even worse much of these losses weren’t even real (AIG) and the gov’t took them on this time and monetized synthetic losses. It is unbelievable to me, and borderline treasonous, that was done.
Right Ze, I do understand what you are saying and totally agree.
The third post is referring to Madoff right?
GL on your recently birthed babies…always an exciting in a life!!
The longer the rain delay, the more likely the field becomes unplayable.
dd, a lot of the comm’l pain will be felt by those banks not TBTF. The umps will call the game quickly for them. Hundreds of bank failures to come.
Actually NO westie.. it is not referring to Madoff at all. That was just pure straight up sociopathic scum of the earth theft. Nothing even existed. It is referring to Goldman, Morgan, Citi, B of A, Wells, Fannie, Freddie, etc… anyone with level 3 assets or anyone who suspended mark to market accounting. They are just cooking the books and pretty much all insolvent but they aren’t showing it, took in cash and paid it out.. I love this guy at Citi owed over 100mil… I hope he gets every penny. Had the bank been put under (as it should have been) he would be an unsecured creditor and waiting 15 years to get pennies on the dollar. I am just explaining how it is done… hilarious actually.
Here is the other dumbass comment i find funny. “China is spending in plans for a recovery”. and China is trying to keep internal social stability to an extent but hell they proved in Tianamen they can do it another way. China is has 3 choices take on; more dollars, sell dollars (would be a disaster for them) or spend it on assets.. Any assets is fine so long as it is storeable, regardless of short term gain or loss. Just no more dollars please. I understand it because it is the same damn logic i came to for myself. I have done some funny shit in my life but being an NYC kid buying cows maybe the funniest ever for me… my friends and I are in tears over this one. I don’t think I ever even touched a cow before.
I do agree commercial RE is now dropping faster than residential has. My grandfather invested heavily in Commercial RE in NYC after leaving residential a decade ago. He is losing money like crazy and is unloading as fast as he can for unreal pricing. Even major companies are closing shop in Manhattan in favor of Brooklyn or dare I say, across the Hudson in NJ.
We can’t resolve the most important issue of the decade, health care, but just so the car makers, banks and insurance companies are doing well, all is good in DC. Priorities mean nothing any longer.
west.. this was a good read.. didn’t read the 16 points but up until that a very on target read. I used to be a very big PAC contributor for a very strong PAC and had no shortage of “dinners” back when i lived in D.C. It always amazed me how cheap these whores are. Country has been sold out and they love the dem vs. repub garbage.. all one in the same and you fight for them only cause it’s not the other..
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/16-credos-for-our-new-lobbyist-nation-2009-09-01
damn want this guy to finish my closets.. 3rd out of 5 days I am stuck in my apt. gorgeous outside too, all those bundas i could be out on the beach oogling.
Interesting facts:
The stock market peaked (well pretty damn close to the peak) when Mark to Market accounting was implimented by the FASB in July 2007
The stock market bottomed when Mark to Market accounting was suspended in March 2009
The banks are biding their time hoping the PPIP will save them, or the housing market will magically turn around.
Whats funny about this whole mess is a whole year after the bailout and nothing has really changed. Oh wow we have a “pay czar” who is as toothless as a catfish.
And nobody is demanding that an institution that is too big to fail is too big to be allowed to exist.
Americans are a dumb, complacent lot. I look forward to extra innings of this crisis and have my popcorn ready.
Sonies: interesting facts….Your comments indicate it will be hard to get out of this mess and we may just be experiencing a breather.
Tricky times ahead for all. The stock market could take another dive when commercial real estate takes its plunge. I’m not ready for another dive. I’m not reassured when I’m told that things are looking great now that loss, unemployment, manufacturing has decreased. Decreased loss is not a gain.
The problem is where to invest? Bonds are ??? because the entities may fail and have low interest. CDs are probably safer, as long as the bank does not fail. But that is another ??? Perhaps short positions in the stock market, but that can be risky. I suppose it is best to invest in Uncle Sam.
You can get installment savings accounts from two banks that pay up to close to 6%. Check out Hanmi Bank or Wilshire Savings. Both are based out of the west coast and cater to Asian Americans and might require a site visit. Completely FDIC insured, however if the bank gets shuttered then obviously the rate goes. Installment savings accounts are quite uncommon here but its hard to find rates that come close to these these days.
Anybody knows about the rental in this building, I would think it should be very easy to rent. How much do you pay for a one bedroom unit here?
ze: “ok.. 3 serious comments from me.. not allowed.. i need to go check my little seedlings that broke soil surface last night… nice tasty buds to be!!”
All girls I expect? I’m sure you don’t bother with that sexing business, right? Oh and thanks for the book recommendations. So much to learn.
Regarding Goldman, Matt Taibbi’s “Inside The Great American Bubble Machine” from July’s Rolling Stone is a good read.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/28816321/the_great_american_bubble_machine
In the August Rolling Stone, Taibbi takes on health care with “Sick
And Wrong, How Washington is screwing up health care reform and why it may take a revolt to fix it”. I love his irreverent style.
Thanks Bob for the information on installment savings accounts.
FHA in trouble..needs bail money!
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125202440174685297.html
“A senior official at HUD, which oversees the FHA, said there is “no risk” that the FHA would require money from Congress if the ratio dips below 2%.”
“Critics have said the FHA, which has never had a chief risk officer, isn’t able to manage such a large portfolio and has weak underwriting standards.”
“In the past two years, the number of loans insured by the FHA has soared and its market share reached 23% in the second quarter, up from 2.7% in 2006, according to Inside Mortgage Finance. FHA-backed loans outstanding totaled $429 billion in fiscal 2008, a number projected to hit $627 billion this year.”
“Rising defaults have eaten through the FHA’s cash cushion. Some 7.8% of FHA loans at the end of the second quarter were 90 days late or more, or in foreclosure, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association, a figure roughly equal to the national average for all loans. That’s up from 5.4% a year ago.”
“There are no Americans in Baghdad!” – Iraqi Information Minister, April 2003
“Some economists say the FHA’s expanded lending has been crucial to preventing a deeper bust in the property market. Thomas Lawler, an independent housing economist, said “the alternative could have been a complete meltdown of housing finance” that would have ultimately led to much larger losses.”
Key takeaway–if you’re a renter thinking of buying, wait it out. You can wait longer than our government can keep printing money and throwing money to maintain the farce of high property valuations. Be patient.
can anyone say if the chart that I’ve been mostly using as my basis for concluding we have not yet hit the bottom is still relevant/accurate?
I’m talking about that Credit Suisse chart of various mortgage reset times:
Does this newly revised version still indicate the same thing, basically?
(I hate that I can’t use the “” convention when typing URLs here:)
compare this:
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2007/10/imf-mortgage-reset-chart.html
to this new one:
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/05/new-mortgage-loan-reset-recast-chart.html
“Does this newly revised version still indicate the same thing, basically?”
Couple of differences I see:
1. The new chart includes an estimate of unsecuritized ARMs. Maybe the old chart rolled them into the separate categories, but that’s v. unclear.
2. The new chart eveidences a bit of kicking the can (or maybe they did a better job of counting months to re-set):
the agency resets have stretched out a great deal,
subprime looks to have stretched a bit into Q1&Q2-10,
Alt-A is stretched out into ’12 a lot more,
OARMs are re-casting earlier (and I suspect they will do so faster than predicted)
3. It would be interesting to see the numbers for each category in a spreadsheet rather than a chart, would be easier to compare.
So really there hasn’t been all that significant a change, just that the pain is stretched out a bit more?
I haven’t been able to print both out and really examine them yet…
“So really there hasn’t been all that significant a change, just that the pain is stretched out a bit more?”
What conclusion one can draw reasonably does depend, in part, on whether the first chart attempted to include non-securitized mortgages. If so, the stretching is pretty minor, if not (ie, the non-sec’tzd mortgages were not in the first chart at all), then it looks like a lot of stretching into ’11 and ’12–>which may be better or worse.
The mortgage reset charts are useful guides for what’s ahead but that’s not the real issue to address. The real issue is the large number of what I call zombie homeowners who are making it month to month right now but any change in their income, mortgage or financial situation causes a default. Everyday I see people on the financial edge. They juggle the mortgage, credit cards, car loans, student loans and monthly bills. They steal from peter to pay paul. These people are us: our neighbors, our family, our brother-in-laws, our co-workers. You just have no idea what kind of holes these people have dug themselves into.
They carry on until one day they are forced to give up. Until we reach a point where the vast majority of homeowners are able to sustainably pay their mortgage and the foreclosures decline to historical levels, we are going to have continued price declines. By 2011 or 2012 I think we might be turning the corner but we’ve still got a ways to go
And by vast majority I mean 95%+. We have subprime and alt-a foreclosure rates that are higher than credit card default rates. They predict 70% of all option arms will default; we’re at 20% already for alt-a’s and well over 40% for subprimes. It’s impossible to have a sustainable and stable housing market where large numbers of people are defaulting. One of the more significant factors in stabilizing the market is to have lower prices. Lower prices means future buyers will pay smaller percentages of their income towards housing, giving them more discretionary income and breathing room to handle default type events like losing jobs, reduction in hours, reduced bonuses, and I’ve even seen cases where major car repairs cause people to miss their mortgages.
We need fewer homeowners. Part of the problem of the past 15 years is that too many people became homeowners who are not stable enough to do so. Now at the slightest downturn in their situation, they are on the brink of foreclosure. Hopefully, the public is past this notion that everyone deserves to own a home regardless of their personal and financial cirucmstances.
Home prices will rebound. The good thing is that inventory will probably start decreasing because the developers have stopped building for the most part. There will probably be a lull where demand once again will significantly exceed available inventory.
However, I would not buy if you don’t have at least a four or five year outlook, if not longer and people should be buying because they want a place to live, not because they are expecting a certain return. People also need to be realistic about their future plans – ie, if you are planning to get married and squeeze out a couple of kids, you probably don’t want to be looking at a one bedroom.
Russ, you are correct about everything else except for the rebound in housing prices. Inventory is depressed due to a number of documented factors, including people choosing to rent instead of sell, the foreclosure moratoriums, banks extending and pretending with loan mods and workouts, and the so-called shadow inventory the banks are holding i.e. the discrepancy between the number of defaults/foreclosures and the number of REO’s on the market. And even if prices were perceived to rebound, homeowners would flood the market, which would again keep downward pressure on prices. And this doesn’t even address the large number of future foreclosures just waiting to happen. For housing prices to return people need to make more money, which they are not doing, and with a 9.7% unemployment rate, and those who do find work often make less than they earned previously. There are so many foreseeable downward pressures on housing I don’t possibly see any sustainable increase in housing prices other than the seasonal increases or gimmicky tax credits.
Bob – installment savings… are these capped at fairly low monthly contributions and then reset to zero every year. I have an account in the UK where I can 8% savings. The problem is I can only put 250 pounds a month and at the end of the year, the balance moves back checking and you start saving from zero again. That means a total interest payment of 120 pounds instead of 30 pounds at 2%. Whah.
There is certainly a lot of shadow inventory. I see it everyday with my clients who can buy without selling. They wind up renting their condos. However, I still believe that because developers and commercial financiers are scared shitless right now, a lot of that inventory will get absorbed over the next couple of years since nothing new will be coming on line and before you know it there aren’t enough units to satisfy demand again putting pressure back on pricing.
Most of the folks who made out ok in housing didn’t buy because they were looking to make money though. They bought because they wanted a place to live and call home for an extended period of time. The people who do so again today will probably benefit the same.
The reality is that no one knows though. If you are looking long term and buy smart, you will probably be ok although nothing is guaranteed. Renting is completely safe though. So it is a matter of preference and risk tolerance.
AK49,
Incorrect. The caps on those two are high. Wilshire caps at 20k but you can open up 5 accounts per person, and you lock in the rate for the duration. Hanmi has a rather high cap at 100k per person and you can lock in the rate for the duration also (5 years). The amounts don’t revert back to checking or savings until the duration of the contract is over (up to 5 years).
So you could theoretically open up accounts for each family member, etc. to bypass the limit. You can even cash out early for a small penalty, keeping most of the interest accrued.
No if you’re a multi-millionaire looking for a safe place to park cash these won’t cut it. But then again I wouldn’t keep more than the FDIC insured amount in any account in any case in that scenario.
Russ, if you have a secure job and you buy a place within your budget and have a down payment, and you feel the impulsive need to buy, then go ahead and buy. Just don’t expect much appreciation for a number of years. However, if you can holdout just a little while longer, you will be able to get more for your money. There will be better deals tomorrow.
I continually use the example of old irving park because it’s where i live. so far this year most of the homes that sell, the mode if you want to use a stats term, is in the $300’s. Price in the $300’s and it will probably sell. Price higher than that and it sits. Earlier in the year the crappier bungalows were selling in the 300’s and now nicer homes are selling in the 300’s. Just a few days ago, a crappier bungalow went on to the market in the $200’s and went under contract in 2 days! Going forward, the crappier houses will probably start sell in the $200’s and nicer and nicer homes will appear in the $300’s.
What I take from this is that over the next few years, $300 will buy you a nicer and nicer home. Now, this has to be within reason. The $800k house in 2002 won’t sell for $300’s k in 2010 but the $500k house in 2006 may sell in the $300’s in 2012. And the types of homes that sold in the $300’s during the boom will be firmly in the $200’s by 2011, which by all indications, is already happening.
The major problem will be today’s homes priced today in the $550’s and above. The I don’t think the high end buyers will return with such force to sell all the $550k+ homes … which means that if and when some of those homes eventually sell in the $300’s or low $400’s, those will be the ‘deals’ that everyone is so anxiously awaiting.
And I’m speaking of OIP; most neighborhoods should have similar trends at different price points. As they say the median price can be misleading because it doesn’t reflect the different types of homes selling. Higher end homes are going to be selling for less and less money probably raising the median price for a while but the good thing is that the median price will buy you a much nicer home in 2012 as compared to 2006 and there’s nothing wrong with that. Those with patience will benefits the most.
Bob:
“Wilshire caps at 20k but you can open up 5 accounts per person, and you lock in the rate for the duration. Hanmi has a rather high cap at 100k per person ”
Incorrect. 5x$20k = $100k, so the caps are the same.
HD:
A completely rational explanation of your prediction (which I agree is reasonbly likely to come to pass). You’ve had a more relaxing pre-holiday weekend day, haven’t you?
Yeah the caps are the same but more hoops to jump through with Wilshire. And the rates are slightly lower.
“Higher end homes are going to be selling for less and less money probably raising the median price for a while”
Altho this is mixing things up. Whether the higher-end sells at $1.5mm or $850k won’t (likely) affect the median, unless pricing them at $850k suddenly causes hundreds of them to sell.
“Yeah the caps are the same but more hoops to jump through with Wilshire. And the rates are slightly lower”
Just busting you on this holiday friday, Bob.
Yes anon(tfo) this morning was extremely busy but this afternoon seems to have chilled out and I’ll take a break whenever I can take it.