The “Green” Single Family Home: 1943 N. Albany in Logan Square
This 4-bedroom new construction single family home at 1943 N. Albany in Logan Square (or is that Humboldt Park???) is being marketed as having “green” features.
The listing says it has high end features such as granite, stone and recycled glass. It also has a finished basement with a full bath and parking.
Is this an affordable starter home for those who want “new” and also “green”?
Ron Knoll at Saffron Realty Group has the listing. See more pictures here.
1943 N. Albany: 4 bedrooms, 4 baths, den, no square footage listed
- Sold in July 2006 for $283,000
- Sold in November 2007 in a judicial sale for $139,000
- Sold in August 2008 for $175,000
- Originally listed in April 2009 for $688,000
- Reduced several times
- Currently listed for $550,000
- Taxes are “new”
- Central Air
- Looks like there are 2 parking spaces with the house (not sure if it’s a garage or not.)
Someone explain the historical prices for me please. Is it because this was a tear down and new construction?
If you advertise as green would be nice to have a tour featuring those “green” features (recycled glass doesn’t count). From the pictures it looks like it could be just another code minimum stick framed turd.
“another code minimum stick framed turd.”
Oh, don’t worry… it is… And in a sketchy hood too… this person is going to take a bath, and its going to be full of 341 meetings.
danny: Yes.
Using the Fairfield house a an asking comp, this looks to be a nicer house, but in a much less desireable location. Can’t find an aerial showing the new structure, but I’d wager that each of the levels is ~1200 sf. Also, assume (perahps incorrectly) that this place was reasonably well-built.
So, structure is worth ~$360k, lot is worth about 1/2 of the 08 price, I’d call it ~$450k, fair value, before any possible deductions for the block, proximity to Armitage or other undesirable things, etc.
And also, They should have crap like verazzo recycled countertops, not granite, rain water catchers, solar crap, recycled wood floors, low flow toilets, and a lot of other junk that they missed here.
” They should have crap like verazzo recycled countertops, not granite, rain water catchers, solar crap, recycled wood floors, low flow toilets, and a lot of other junk that they missed here.”
Can’t quite tell from 7 pix. But you’re right.
Maybe they “recycled” everything from a mortgage-fraud house stripdown nearby?
1)Technically Logan, but with plenty of that “Humbodlt Feel”. . .
2)”being marketed as having green features”. . . I would ask whether this one is being marketed at all!!
Based on this “listing,” we don’t know:
-sq. footage.
-size of any rooms
-whether there is a garage, and what type (no garage and this thing ain’t even worth $250)
-Equipment / appliances. . . none are shown, none are listed
-Is there a basement?
-As many have mentioned: What’s “green” (apparently “recycled glass” suffices)
At this price point in this ‘hood, this property did not need marketing issues like this.
On the plus side, I am sure proximity to the snazzy new Albany-Whipple Park is worth at least half of the $400k price increase (sarcasm).
ditto what Sonies said. but rather photovoltaic system than crap. bamboo is sustainable wood. f the low flow toilets since they waste the same amount water. Grey water system would be nice.
It might be a slippery slope to call something “Green” if all that is meant is there are recycled glass finishes. Hopefully buyers don’t mistake “Green” for “Energy Efficient” and “Saving Money”…
To answer one of the questions, “Is there a basement?”
Listing says,
Finished basement with laundry room, full bath, and living area.
I agree that there are still a lot of unanswereds on this place. Without a garage in this location, you can have a car but not for very long.
“It might be a slippery slope to call something “Green” if all that is meant is there are recycled glass finishes. ”
Well the paint on the exterior and the tile in the bathroom are sort of green.
“no garage and this thing ain’t even worth $250”
For want of a $10k garage, you think the place is worth at least $100k less? Seriously?
“Is there a basement?”
Sabrina sez so in the post–“It also has a finished basement with a full bath”
Also, check the redfin listing for room sizes.
“just another code minimum stick framed turd.”
Spot on Bob 2! Plus it looks like vinyl siding on the outside. I don’t care whether it actually is or not it just reminds me of suburban crapshacks back in the early 80s. But those were going for 50k back then not 550k.
Another rehabber living in fantasy land refusing to retrain and find a legitimate occupation. Yet if there are still 80/10 loans being made they might get lucky and find a gullible dual income couple.
Obviously there is negotiating room baked into the ask price so maybe 450k.
ps, re the garage–it’s a standard chicago lot, so garage or not, there’s someplace to put it.
Oh wait this is indeed Humboldt Park. Too bad for this rehabber! Ignore everything I said about price this thing is a steaming turd.
“Obviously there is negotiating room baked into the ask price so maybe 450k.”
Now you’re just stealing from me.
“Oh wait this is indeed Humboldt Park. Too bad for this rehabber! Ignore everything I said about price this thing is a steaming turd.”
Because of 300′? Seriously? It’s not like Armitage is some magical boundary. This place is worth *exactly* what it would be if the only change were to move it to the second lot north of Armitage.
“Now you’re just stealing from me.”
Haha yeah and I checked it is indeed Logan Square and this is indeed an okay sub-pocket of it. But if you go N or S on Kedzie it gets un-gentrified real quick, especially south.
I doubt it will sell for 450k even if there are nice restaurants at Armitage & Kedzie. Its really on the fringe and not near good public transportation other than the bus.
“Because of 300?? Seriously?”
300′ means little to the gangs of little PR.
“300? means little to the gangs of little PR.”
That’s my point. You say it’s $450k when you think it’s in Logan, and then “ignore that” because it’s 300′ further south. I think that’s absurd.
Bobbo–missed your 12:23 post.
“That’s my point. You say it’s $450k when you think it’s in Logan, and then “ignore that” because it’s 300? further south. I think that’s absurd.”
I happen to know a few people that live in both Humboldt Park and Logan Square. None of the Humboldt Park people I know could be called urban gentrifiers by any stretch of the imagination. Many of the Logan Square ones are.
Properties like this wouldn’t exist but for the housing bubble.
“Because of 300?? Seriously?”
How much of a price difference between living in the old Montgomery ward building (725N Kingsbury) and 300′ north of there (Cabrini Townhomes)?
“None of the Humboldt Park people I know could be called urban gentrifiers by any stretch of the imagination. Many of the Logan Square ones are.”
Fair enough, but anyone who says this house is unacceptable b/c it’s south of Armitage, but would find it acceptable the same distance north of Armitage is either being absurd or affiliated with a gang and wants to stay in friendly territory.
Of course, if Armitage is *actually* a gang boundary (i have no idea), then this place isn’t even steaming.
“None of the Humboldt Park people I know could be called urban gentrifiers by any stretch of the imagination.”
I don’t get it. So they moved there in hopes that the area remains just as bad as it’s always been? Then again, maybe you know some long-time residents of Humboldt Park.
“How much of a price difference between living in the old Montgomery ward building (725N Kingsbury) and 300? north of there (Cabrini Townhomes)?”
Are those *exactly* the same houses? Are you talking about hypothetically moving 725 N Kingsbury across the street to where the parking garage is, or even a 100′ north? Are you hypothesizing that the MW building would be balanced on top of the Cabrini Homes?
Because the only thing that changed Bob’s view of the house was his perception of whether it was LS or HP, with a possible boundary line of Armitage (which is debatable).
“I don’t get it. So they moved there in hopes that the area remains just as bad as it’s always been?”
Their Bob’s friends from the Misers Club. They want HP to stay bad, b/c then it stays cheap.
I’m just saying that boundary streets, especially major ones do make a significant difference in price.
I agree with Sonies, being south of Armitage makes a big different. It’s not nearly as big a jump as west of Western but it’s still pretty significant. And on a map it’s the difference between Logan and Humboldt. It’s more like the difference in Old Irving between being north of Irving or south of Irving – the more desirable properties are all south of Irving and prices reflect that.
anon (tfo) – You really think the lot is worth 450K?
Hey next summer, lets all hang out for a few weeks in the areas where the two most recent logan square homes are featured on CC.
then we will talk and i will refer to my statement “no one should ever pay over 350k to live in logan square or ‘north Humboldt park’ ever”
“I’m just saying that boundary streets, especially major ones do make a significant difference in price.”
No, you weren’t, at least in what you posted, but that’s okay. Else you would have used two former MW buildings that happen to be on opposite sides of Chicago and are actually somewhat comparable.
Do you really think that this *exact* house, placed on the reflected lot north of Armitage (ie, the 2d one north of the alley parallel to Armitage, just as this is the 2d south), would be worth significantly more? Why?
“Their Bob’s friends from the Misers Club. They want HP to stay bad, b/c then it stays cheap.”
A perfect plan for the renter. You could probably negotiate 9% OR MORE off the rent each lease term. Nobody buys anywhere in the city without the hope that the area improves in every conceivable way. And that would be gentrification.
This faux “green” marketing stuff is a joke.
It is like the guy in the gold coast (50 E Scott..more or less) building a 25,000 SF LEED certified house with underground parking for 5 cars.. Yes folks, 3-4 people in a massive 4 story house that replaced a 12 unit building (now in a landfill) is considered green by the USGBC (which is also a joke).
“Do you really think that this *exact* house, placed on the reflected lot north of Armitage (ie, the 2d one north of the alley parallel to Armitage, just as this is the 2d south), would be worth significantly more? Why?”
Well no, not really but I can see where he’s coming from due to the bad rap that actually living in Humbolt Park as opposed to Logan Square might have overhanging this listing to potential buyers.
(bad sentence but busy today, sorry)
” You really think the lot is worth 450K?”
No, I think the LOT is worth about $90k (that was a little unclear). Replacement cost of the house is about $360k, meaning $450k *total*, as built, asssuming good build quality. And I left myself HUGE wiggle room in the location adjustment, which Groovester is telling me is *at least* minus $100k.
“the more desirable properties are all south of Irving”
You refer to desireable *properties*. If you transported an entire block worth of those “more desireable” properties to a block north of IP, do you think they would be worth **significantly** less? Why? Or is it b/c the nicer houses were all built south of IP and the housing stock north of IP sux in comparison.
“Well no, not really but I can see where he’s coming from due to the bad rap that actually living in Humbolt Park as opposed to Logan Square might have overhanging this listing to potential buyers.”
Yeah, I see that, too, but this far west, it’s pretty much block-by-block in either hood, no? So I’m dubious that someone even considering new construction around here cares that much b/t the first block north or south, all else equal.
And the short answer on all of this is: Seller’s still wishing at $550k.
anon(tfo), the same house on the northside of IP is worth 20% less than the house on the south side of IP. (of course now with so few houses selling on either side of IP its tough to say); but the northside of IP has more apartment buildings, the highway passes through it, it’s a newer section of old irving as opposed to the traditional OIP;
Same here. South of armitage on the map is humboldt park, north is logan. maybe in reality there isn’t that much difference (but I bet there is) but psychologically there is a difference and real its real. One is humboldt and one is logan. it says so on the map.
“IP has more apartment buildings, the highway passes through it, it’s a newer section of old irving as opposed to the traditional OIP; ”
You’ve given three reasons why that isn’t a good comparison to here. Thank you for proving my point for me.
“For want of a $10k garage, you think the place is worth at least $100k less? Seriously?”
No, I do not think that. I think a potential buyer of this place might be turned off enough to amount to that (and in my experience one cannot assume “standard lot”=”room for garage”; although you’re correct that’s usually true, if listing agent isn’t saying anything about parking on a Chicago property, I’m asking questions).
“Sabrina sez so in the post–”It also has a finished basement with a full bath”
Also, check the redfin listing for room sizes.”
Looks like we agree that all parties involved did a better job of marketing this than the agent did.
Re: N or S of Armitage, I don’t believe that’s currently a gang boundary. . . although if you go only a bit west to Kimball, my answer is different.
This suggestion that the area deteriorates to the north of here is incorrect though– it actually gets markedly better, and that’s reflected in home prices.
Whereas only a couple blocks south of here. . . well, you can pick up a single family for $200k, if you want.
“it’s a newer section of old irving as opposed to the traditional OIP; ” is pretty damn similar to “south of armitage is humboldt north is logan”
Different neighborhoods.
“This suggestion that the area deteriorates to the north of here is incorrect though– it actually gets markedly better, and that’s reflected in home prices.”
Oh, I think everyone except me is arguing that it’s *dramatically* better *immediately* across Armitage.
HD: “a newer section”–fine, you’ve given two reasons why it’s not a good comparison and your rebutting the third w/o addressing the other two I will deem an admission. Thank you again.
you know what?
screw the hood boundry pricing accross the street debate.
WTF how is this a “green” or even a “green inspired” building?
recycled glass thats it?
seriously how is this realtor not disbarred, revoked, or what ever you called it.
you know what i am going to list my house as “green” to. and fricken list “that it uses recycled water from lake michigan”
I know you went to law school anon(tfo) but you’re not practicing law at this time. You say too many things like “I will deem an admission” which all you’re missing is a quote from Rule 216; a few months ago you used the acronym FRCP which is an acronym a non-lawyer would never ever use; i’m a lawyer and I don’t even use it. boohyah
1. Technically, it is in Humbolt Park. Armitage is the southern boundry of Logan Square, so this property is one block shy (http://egov.cityofchicago.org/webportal/COCWebPortal/COC_ATTACH/Community_Areas_LOGAN_SQUARE.pdf)
2. Regardless of which neighborhood its in, given other opportunities, is this what and where you want to buy?
3. I suppose the relators live by the old proverb, “You can’t get what you don’t ask for.” No matter the listing price, in this market, people are going to seek a discount to list.
“1. Technically, it is in Humbolt Park. Armitage is the southern boundry of Logan Square, so this property is one block shy (http://egov.cityofchicago.org/webportal/COCWebPortal/COC_ATTACH/Community_Areas_LOGAN_SQUARE.pdf)”
You do realize you just posted a map that (correctly) shows the southern boundary is Bloomingdale?
Which is why this is techinically Logan (although I totally agree it feels markedly more “Humboldt” the minute you’re S of Armitage).
“Oh, I think everyone except me is arguing that it’s *dramatically* better *immediately* across Armitage.”
Bob opined at 12:23 that to the north OR south the neighborhood was worse. So wrong I had to say something.
Lest I provoke you, anon, I agree that 300′ ain’t worth half a mil or whatevah. But it is major difference and I’m sure it is worth at least some value.
I stand corrected. My apologies for the confusion. I give back my boyscout merit bage for map reading. Oddly, Wiki lists the southern boundry as Armitage and several real estate websites list Fullerton. The City of Chicago map his clear – SquareD is correct.
Here is another good map: http://egov.cityofchicago.org/webportal/COCWebPortal/COC_EDITORIAL/City_Neighborhoods_8_5x11.pdf
I live in the immediate area. Can’t say much about the difference in value north-to-south, but the developers do (*did*) tend to favor north of Armitage heavily. North of Armitage, it’s only a long block away from Palmer Square, which is quite nice. South, it’s two blocks to the Humboldt Park wall. New infill was much more frequent (and of a higher quality than this plastic shack) to the north.
Ok. So I can’t say about Irving Park Road or HP vs LS, but I can talk about Old Town and North Ave…
Place north of North Ave in Old Town is going to be more $$$ than place south of North Ave (all other things being equal).
who cares about boundries,
how the f**k is this place “green”?
“WTF how is this a “green” or even a “green inspired” building?
recycled glass thats it?”
It’s a horrible marketing job from a realtor who most likely realizes that the seller is going to change realtors before seller realizes how low the price *has* to be to move the place (or that the lender won’t approve a short sale at a price that will move it). So he does enough work to not piss off the seller, but nothing else.
For all we know, it could have solar panels, recycled-cotton insulation, wind turbines, etc, etc, etc, but hte realtor doesn’t care b/c he expects to never see a dime.
LS: “Here is another good map: ”
That map shows the boundary at North Avenue–check the OT/OTT line and how it lines up with the north boundary of OP.
“So they moved there in hopes that the area remains just as bad as it’s always been? ”
They aren’t longtime residents. Most moved there because it is cheap and for the questionable apples because they can generally get away with petty crimes much more easily than more gentrified hoods (urinating in public, shooting off fireworks, ditching cabs and not coming back to pay them, dog off leash, etc).
“This suggestion that the area deteriorates to the north of here is incorrect though– it actually gets markedly better, and that’s reflected in home prices.”
Dunno there is that fancy restaurant at Armitage and Kedzie and it has a Bucktown/LP feel to it (just that intersection).
I drive Kedzie sometimes and don’t remember seeing many bars or fancy restaurants to the north, it just seems weird and curvy until that f*ckin Logan Blvd Circle then desolate north of it. And damn do I hate that traffic circle.
“It’s a horrible marketing job from a realtor who most likely realizes that the seller is going to change realtors before seller realizes how low the price *has* to be to move the place”
good point, but then why would a realtor even take the business? even if they think a one and a million chance that they get a bid before they change agents come on its not hard to type into the MLS is it?
Fancy restaurant at Armitage and Kedzie? Bon Soiree? On Armitage, but not as far west as Kedzie. Unless you are talking Lula – not really Armitage and not all that fancy.
“why would a realtor even take the business?”
That question is implicit on about every 8th house featured here. I have some theories, but maybe one of the folks in the biz can enlighten us with facts.
“its not hard to type into the MLS is it?”
Based on the grammar, punctuation, spelling and abbreviations realtors use, I have to guess that the answer is: “Yes, it really is THAT hard”.
“Based on the grammar, punctuation, spelling and abbreviations realtors use, I have to guess that the answer is”
well then i should become a agent then 🙂 (referring to the shots you and jon gotz me’s on mi grammerz and stuph)
Shoving feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken. Painting a house green does not make it “green” in the other sense. High priced house in the ‘hood = fail.
This is officially Logan Square, and BLOOMINGDALE is the official boundary. See the official Census Community Areas.
I grew up on this street, on this particular block. We stayed til about ’69, when the whole area went to hell, really hard, and stayed that way for like almost 30 years. In the mid-90’s you could buy graystone 2 and 3 flats for under $100k. There’s Scattered Site (subsidized) housing around, lots of bangers still, to the west of Kedzie, to the south of Bloomingdale. It may as well be Humboldt Park, although there’s a hardcore group of owners over there who are fighting tooth and nail to hang on and make some more progress over there. (aka “urban pioneers”)
This is the kind of place you move to because you want to stay and make a difference in the hood for the better. If you’re there to speculate, or wait til you have kids to move away, better to just avoid it altogether.
“why would a realtor even take the business?”
I’ve already posted my theory on this. Just like dating and landing a mate substantially more attractive than you, it is strictly a numbers game.
If you start with an initial population of 100 hopelessly overpriced listings, lets assume mean price of 500k, and invest a half-hour into each of them and have even a one percent success ratio, that’s a commission of $15,000 for 50 hours worth of work, or $300/hour. Not too shabby. Even if they have to invest five hours into each property (showings, etc) thats still $30/hour and a livable wage. The key is to make this tactic work an agent would need volume of listings.
Each of these hopelessly overpriced properties is like a free lottery ticket to the selling agent. And you can’t win if you don’t play.
Bob,
great theory!!!!!
And probably 99% true. Just me here, but if I was a realtor I would play the numbers game also. Butt I would put my heart into the listings.
You would think with less places moving realtors would do more for thier listings, I mean go all out!!!!! Even with a high volume of listings you still have time enough not to do a half azzed listing.
But that’s just me and my opinion.
This Green thing cracks me up, it’s a clever new way to seperate people from their dough. It makes people feel virtuous by doing nothing more strenuous than buying this instead of that, what a racket, people love virtue without sacrifice and better yet if they can trumpet it as a status symbol.
Status AND virtue in one easy shot, how can you lose?
“bamboo is sustainable wood”
yes – but – it’s coming from Asia. So if you want to get all technical about the carbon footprint/sustainability, you have to take into consideration how much fuel it takes to get that wood here.
personally, I consider “green” flooring to be re-used, or perhaps ash/maple that was felled due to some hideous Asian insect like the emerald ashborer or longhorned beetle (the bugs are always from Asia, it seems!).
I’d also caution against taking the city of chicago map too seriously- that map has been used by more gung-ho-developers then you can shake a stick at, Armitage has always been the boundary b/n Humboldt & Logan AFAIC. Note that’s always the more yuppified/deisrable areas that the City is trying to give 1/8 of a mile here or there to.
from Logan Preservation:
http://www.logansquarepreservation.org/1881map.html
(although I recall the original map actually going a few more blocks both north and south)
““bamboo is sustainable wood”
yes – but – it’s coming from Asia. So if you want to get all technical about the carbon footprint/sustainability, you have to take into consideration how much fuel it takes to get that wood he”
—
i was trying to go for the most trendy, but I’d be fine with recycled plastic as green too. esp. in a rental. But I do like my hickory floors.
to be sustainable should account for all the carbon in its definition.
One thing to consider, the amount carbon your capturing in the bamboo grown (I think it should be a significant portion of its weight), I would assume in its natural habitat, its carbon negative, that can outweigh the transportation carbon which is quite low for sea shipping. would be better if the ship was powered.
border the farms around larger national forest and wildlife could benifit too. Better than Chinese mfd. goods.
*suppose to be nuclear powered ship.
revassal,
I’ve long suspected this but I’ll bring it up again:
I think you are a G0d damn retard. Along with all the other “green bugs” willing to overpay for crap.
Fortunately most “green bugs” don’t have the wealth nor wherewithawl to pay a premium for this fad, but I just thought I’d call you out.
You are truly a G0d damn retard, with regard to RE valuations and especially with regard to your “green opinion”.
Hey revassal,
I really wish you had some wealth because I have a green bridge to sell you. Moss covered and all!
Old Man,
I agree 1000%. I just wish these green fanatics like revassal actually had money to part with.
What you’ll find is ideological morons are typically broke (ie: hipsters). Dumb people tend to not have wealth or truly disposable income.
Remember if somebody cannot understand reality or are easily influenced by fads in adulthood chances are they don’t have the income to support paying 260k for a “green” 1/1 condo.
Joe Zekas would have you believe otherwise with his numerous “green” or “LEED certified” developments, but the reality is its just developers trying to capitalize on idiots. Which might have worked during the boom.
Unfortunately for him banks aren’t giving nearly as many loans to idiots. Idiots don’t have the sustainable income to support these valuations, and the whole fad comes crashing down like jelly shoes.
Did you have a good time at Duffy’s last night Bob?
“Along with all the other “green bugs” willing to overpay for crap”
Bob,
homie, broham, main man, dollar beer night was fun huh? I am to tired to go into detail why Green crap cost more, simply its just more expensive to make than the bulk, chemicals enhanced, and blah blah…. you know you a smart kid.
yeah people there are crooked people/companies using the green fad as marketing and charging extra and stuff.
dont get me wrong i am not going to stick my dangle in a tree and become one of those tree humpers.
but we do try to do a little somethin-somethin to put in “our part”. We use our own bags for the past two years no more plastic for us, you know the little things just to make a small difference.
your lungs will thank revassel when your 50. if its a fad, great it will reach more people than the tree humping leaf eaters, and we as the planet earth will be better for it.
not all of us like to shop at the walmart and costco’s and will pay a bit extra at the local mom and pop’s for the service and local jobs it provides
some of us dont mind paying extra for TRUE green shyt knowing that it will benifit us all.
(wow i am tired i dont think i finished more than a half of thought with all that i typed)
Thanks bob the best to you, too.
”
I really wish you had some wealth because I have a green bridge to sell you. Moss covered and all!”
“dont get me wrong i am not going to stick my dangle in a tree and become one of those tree humpers.”
you don’t know what your missing the best I ever had. Big Red.
Down to $519…
“Their Bob’s friends from the Misers Club. They want HP to stay bad, b/c then it stays cheap.”
Exactamundo. And UPDATE on one building where I know people at: the landlord wants the young ruffians to shape up and is really busting their chops lately with code violations and everything else. He wants them out so he can get idyllic grandma Ethyl renters because he’s trying to sell the building.
Know why he’s trying to sell the building? He smells there might be a big Mr. Moneybags out there with more money than sense. If it were pre-2008 he might’ve been right.