Back to the 2004 Price for this Lakeview Short Sale: 651 W. Sheridan
This 2 bedroom unit at 651 W. Sheridan in Lakeview has been on the market since April 2009.
It has been reduced by $79,100 and is now a short sale.
It is also now listed at about the 2004 purchase price.
The unit has exposed brick walls, granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances in the kitchen and central air.
There is no washer/dryer in the unit but it’s available on every floor and there are only 24 units in the building.
It also has a parking space and a balcony.
Are two bedroom units returning to affordability in East Lakeview?
Maria Dziubczynski at Re/Max Impact has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #4A: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, no square footage listed
- Sold in June 1989 for $95,000
- Sold in July 1990 for $106,000
- Sold in August 1994 for $128,000
- Sold in April 1998 for $154,000
- Sold in July 2004 for $269,000
- Sold in November 2005 for $322,000
- Sold in March 2007 for $339,000
- Originally listed in April 2009 for $349,000
- Reduced numerous times
- Lis pendens foreclosure filed on in October 2009
- Currently listed as a “short sale” for $269,900
- Assessments of $283 a month
- Taxes of $3967
- Central Air
- No Washer/Dryer in the Unit (on every floor)
- Parking included
- Bedroom #1: 16×12
- Bedroom #2: 13×10
- LIving room: 27×16
- Kitchen: 12×10
Pretty weird to see a West Sheridan address. I think this little block is the only place where such a creature exists, and this road goes well north of the Wisconsin Border.
Not a bad price . . . until you see the photos. Seriously unattractive kitchen. By the way, does a short sale mean the sales price is lower than the amount remaining on mortgage AND the mortgage company is involved in the sale? Or just that the sellers need to sell and have had to lower and lower until the sales price is lower than the amount remaining on mortgage?
“You can have it all!”
Does that include those two purses on the chairs and all that crap on the fridge?
AMBER ALERT! Someone stole my Uncle Frank’s apartment building from Cudahy, Wisconsin. Wait, found it.
“this little block is the only place where such a creature exists”
This stretch is 4 blocks long. And there’s another block next to Loyola. But that is it.
A short sale means the price is lower than the mortgage owed and the seller cannot afford the pay the mortgage company back the difference owed between the mortgage and the lower sales price. The mortgage company has to approve the short sale (a royal PITA) – agree to take less than is owed for the property.
This is a deal IF the mortgage company or bank accepts the price. I never know though because banks pull shenanigans with short sales and foreclosures that keep their closing date and price off the Tribune’s RE site.
This is more South Uptown than East Lakeview.
Ugh.
No!
South Uptown – LOL! good one.
Shared washer and dryer? Gross.
Nix my comment on this being a deal then, didn’t notice the shared washer & dryer.
For over a quarter mill a property better have all amenities including parking, central air, in unit w/d. 200k for this.
someone please refresh my memory;
what’s the difference between a “lis pendens” and a “lis pendens foreclosure”? I see this listed as two different types of documents in the CCRD search lists.
Or is it simply that instead of doing a foreclosure in 2 steps, with lis pendens first, then the foreclosure filing, they are just going straight forward with filing a lis pendens AND foreclosure together, thus making it a “lis pendens foreclosure”?
And, are short sales something the property owner does to try to protect their credit rating, or is a short sale something the bank does, to try to salvage what they can of the loan before going through the messy long foreclosure?
logansquarean:
they’re different documents but they have the same purpose. The purpose of a lis pendens is to notify the world that there is a litigation pending that will affect the interests and rights of ownership of that particular piece of property. the lis pendens is just a very general document that says “lis pendens”, very short with no specifics; the lis penden foreclosure is a lis pendens with an attachment that basically amounts to the first page of the foreclosure complaint, i.e. it gives more info like the mortgage amount, other known parties with an interest, etc.
“And, are short sales something the property owner does to try to protect their credit rating, or is a short sale something the bank does, to try to salvage what they can of the loan before going through the messy long foreclosure?”
Short sales in theory will protect your credit rating, only slightly, in that you won’t get a foreclosure judgment on your credit report. The short payoff shows up as a charge off on your credit report and stays on there for 7 years, whereas a foreclosure judgment stays on for 10 years. Both will hurt your credit tremendously for the first few years but the negative effect wane by the 7th/10th year.
The catch is that you have to keep paying your mortgage during the short sale process. MOst people don’t. They screw their credit when they get the 30/60/90/120 days late on the mortgage. By that point a short sale isn’t going to help you, you’re better off living in the house until it goes into foreclosure and living mortgage free.
The way to avoid foreclosure is when a mortgagor gives a ‘deed in lieu of foreclosure’. Its basically deeding the property back to the bank in exchange for not going through the foreclosure process. It doen’t happen so much with residential properties but happens more often with commercial properties.
With residential properties, you don’t see many deeds in lieu. My personal opinion is that the banks want to ding the borrower’s credit regardless, they ding it for 10 years, and that’s like the scarlet letter in the lending industry right now; it will keep debtors out of the home ownership world well into next decade. But in reality, the foreclosure process wipes out any later and junior interests and gives teh bank property free and clear; deeds in lieu make it more difficult to get title insurance, it’s a little messier. The banks have gotten good at foreclosures, they wrote the laws you know
based on the price history this place might be under $200k by the spring, at which point it would be a deal. this is about as far north as i’d want to live on sheridan/lakeshore, it gets noticeably worse a few blocks further north. rooms are good size, decent location, parking included, reasonable assessments and taxes, and kickass music on the virtual tour. all in all i’d say we’ve seen much worse on CC.
Hey HD,
Just curious – because you seem knowledgeable regarding foreclosures/credit/etc… Do you think it’s going to be any different when a lot of people have this scarlet letter on their credit as opposed to fairly recent history where getting foreclosed on was like getting swine flu in a busy office? Just a lame analogy, but what do you think – you get the question.
Seriously Jon what adverse impact does a credit score have on somebody other than when they try to buy a car under best terms or (much more importantly) buy a house under best terms?
HD is credit score paranoid. It really isn’t that useful aside from attaining the best terms on a mortgage. And if you’re a RE bear like he and I are it really isn’t useful at all. He is blind to this.
Who wants to own within the next five years if you really believe RE is going to depreciate?
HD’s fixation on FICO scores I liken to his anal retentiveness to being a product of law school. FICO score really isn’t used for job determination or much else as I can attest that I’ve not paid some debts I felt were unfair and my score was never dinged.
Yes if you have a _recent_ EVICTION on your report it will be harder to find an apartment and you might be declined from your first choice, but others will approve. But foreclosure isn’t eviction–landlords don’t care about such things.
It sounds to me like there is really no good reason to even try a short sale. In the end, foreclosure won’t be that much more damaging to your credit. From a buyer’s perspective, it wouldn’t be worth the hassle to try to obtain a foreclosed property.
For someone in this position, they’d probably be well served by saving up cash from the money they’re not spending on mortgage payments so they could make a huge upfront payment to rent an apartment after being foreclosed on. Landlords will be much more likely to overlook bad credit when a $5000 deposit/rent initial payment is dangled in front of them.
“For someone in this position, they’d probably be well served by saving up cash from the money they’re not spending on mortgage payments so they could make a huge upfront payment to rent an apartment after being foreclosed on.”
Unless, of course, they’re in foreclosure because they lost their job, the unemployment bene’s have run out, and they’re basically scraping by, and ready to head to the welfare office.
Not so probable to the upper-classes, but you get to the middle/lower-middle, and they’re living on a wing and a prayer already, with their “aspirational” lifestyle and all…
Employers use fico scores for employment, insurance companies for insurance rates, when you buy a car a good score is a 5pc rate and a bad score can mean literally 20 or 30 pc; cc rates are 29pc instead of 9.99.
“But foreclosure isn’t eviction–landlords don’t care about such things.”
-as a landlord, I would never, never, ever, even consider leasing to someone with a foreclosure. First the foreclosure is dropping your FICO score significantly. Most (prudent) landlords pull credit reports and have minimum requirements. A foreclosure is probably putting you under that minimum. And even if it above or close to acceptable, once I see that foreclosure threadline, its a deal breaker. Your FICO, though not all inclusive or perfect, is as good as an indicator as there is of someones ability to service their debt. And as an offshoot, their ability to make prudent financial decisions. Since if they are unable to service their debt, then it is indicative that they took on to much debt & risk. Yes, unfortuneate things happen, job loss or serious medical issues. Thats why FICO is not perfect, but it is significant and it is easy to do. And thats why it counts.
Even if the landlord accepts you as a tenant, you will be subject to higher security deposits, etc. Also FICO score factor into insurance premiums and can be used as part of new employee vetting.
A co-worker of mine, her brother didn’t get a job b/c of his credit report. He had just been foreclosed on. Ironically he was foreclosed b/c he was a scumbag subprime loan officer, his business suddenly dried up. Karma.
So to reitterate (sp?) my point. Most respectable landlords & all management companies pull credit and a crappy FICO is going to have a negative impact on the lease. Depending on the situation, from denial to have to pay higher deposits.
D.R.I.V.E., one of the few remaining subprime auto lenders, charges 34% interest on new car loans.
Contrast that with buyers who have good credit who pay 0% interest or something ridiculously low.
lol at the front door location. WTF.
Subprime auto lenders are and to think of it ALL car dealers are scum of the earth.
i have a few buddies with BK’s and one is paying 21% on his 6 year car note. its insane!
i had a buddy in the car dealer industry he told me that any FICO in the 600’s gets you 7-13% 500’s and lower you will get your azz handed to you.
as for me i tried holding out for the 0% deals but couldnt i ended up with 1.5% for 3 years.
“Groove77 on November 11th, 2009 at 8:37 am
Subprime auto lenders are and to think of it ALL car dealers are scum of the earth.
i have a few buddies with BK’s and one is paying 21% on his 6 year car note. its insane!”
Oh good lord, boo-hoo. Tell your BK friends to take the damn bus.
What is wrong with charging 21% to someone who has a documented history of being unwilling/able to repay their debts? Nothing, that’s what.
Google “risk vs. reward”.
“Contrast that with buyers who have good credit who pay 0% interest or something ridiculously low.”
Well that’s sort of the benefit of paying your bills on time all the time, you are a lower risk and your interest rates will be lower.
Think of it from the lender’s perspective, you have to create attractive rates for people to stay competitive, but if people don’t pay you back what they owe, you won’t be in business very long. So Good credit score people get great rates and bad credit risks get bad rates… perhaps they should buy a used car instead of a brand new one? Take public transit? Oh right, they’re entitled to a new car…
These are the same people who also drive without car insurance.
“Oh good lord, boo-hoo. Tell your BK friends to take the damn bus.
What is wrong with charging 21% to someone who has a documented history of being unwilling/able to repay their debts? Nothing, that’s what.
Google “risk vs. reward”.
speaking of large upfront rent payments…
i know there are some landlords on here and some longtime renters who may have tried this as well. if i want to prepay my entire one year lease upfront, what kind of discount might i expect? do many landlords offer that? i’ll probably be dealing with an individual so i’m sure it varies significantly, but to some of you landlords out there what would you be willing to offer to a tenant to wants to prepay the entire lease?
assume all negotiating on the rent has already taken place and we’re only discussing the matter of payment.
FICO scores are garbage. Way too many ways to game the system and often times the scores make absolutely no sense whatsoever. Lending is the trouble is now because of an over reliance on FICO models and automated underwriting systems.
Nevertheless, you do have to protect your FICO score as it is used for everything these days. I knew someone who almost lost a job because they had a bad FICO score. The job required a lot of traveling and thus a corporate Amex card. He got denied the Amex card.
Ironically, having no credit is worse than having bad credit when it comes to mortgages. With bad credit, the bank at least knows you don’t pay on time… with no credit, we don’t know so it is considered riskier.
I don’t think foreclosures and short sales are going to have an effect on people’s ability to get loans in the future. There is going to be some outcry saying it isn’t fair as the past few years were the fault of the evil banks and the government is going to step in and come up with some way to wipe the slate clean for these folks so they can buy a home or a stick of gum on credit again.
DC-
Be careful with prepaying too much rent. If that unit gets foreclosed you may be evicted by the bank. More likely something could happen to make the unit unihabbitable. Not likely, but it happens: fire, flood, crackhead/ spoilled partykids move in upstairs and party all night.
So its a matter of risk vs reward.
As for reward in the for of a discount. If you plan on negotiating down the rental rate, andnd then once thats agreed upon, negotiating a further discount for prepaying: I’d say that the landlord would not be willing to discount further. You can’t negotiate a final price, and then renegotiate. Thats not acting in good faith. I’d suggest laying out all the details and coming to a final(truely final) price.
Not that its not possible, especially if someone is a novice and desperate. Personally, if someone did that to me I would pass. We agreed on a price and now you want an additional discount!!! Thats just shows me that you are going to be a PITA tenant. Plus I don’t want/need all that rent up front. Anything beyond 2 months deposit+ 1st & last months rent doesn’t offer me much benefit in return for further discount.
For my properties I start at 1 months deposit and 1st month rent, assuming good credit (680-700+) and verifiable, favorable rental history.
My parents building that I manage is in a less desirable area so we get some interesting prospective tenants. We done as much as 1st & last months rent+ 2 month deposit. Usually, the credit scores are in the 600-650 range, and that ends up being 1.5-2months security. I’ve had 2-3 offers of full rent up front for 6 month/1year. These people don’t want a credit check and always seem to be wheeling-and-dealing, like a used car salesman. I’ve told them all that we weren’t interested if they wouldn’t go through the normal application process.
“Google “risk vs. reward”.”
Bradford, I don’t think that the groove was complaining, just dicussing the ramifications of being a deadbeat.
Now, if only the govt didn’t backstop nearly all RE lending, then RE would be priced correctly as well.
Russ, the only way for the govt to wipe deadbeats’ slates clean is to kill all private lending and take it all on themselves. At some point, they could only do that by confiscating monies from savers. What a great country that wouldn’t be.
I think a foreclosure is the scarlet letter of lending and will be for years to come. Even FHA makes you wait three or maybe now four or five years post-foreclosure to be approved for a new mortgage. Burn me once, shame on you; burn me twice…
“I don’t think foreclosures and short sales are going to have an effect on people’s ability to get loans in the future. There is going to be some outcry saying it isn’t fair as the past few years were the fault of the evil banks and the government is going to step in and come up with some way to wipe the slate clean for these folks so they can buy a home or a stick of gum on credit again.”
“G on November 11th, 2009 at 11:20 am
Bradford, I don’t think that the groove was complaining, just dicussing the ramifications of being a deadbeat.”
He said the lenders were “scum” because they charge his deadbeat friends appropriately. *shrug*
It seems pretty cut and dry to me.
G/HD:
I am not saying it is right as short sales, foreclosures, modifications, should all be Scarlett letters. I am just saying that I can see the cries of discrimination coming now and some genius at Fannie/Freddie/Barney Frank (Fife) or someone is going to come up with some regulation/provision/exception of some sort that will override the credit rating related to this housing crash.
You will see quotes like this (made up) “The bank unfairly stole my house of 20 years (no mention of buying the Harley and the Paris vacation with the HELOC), and now you are discriminating against me with a foreclosure rating preventing me from buying a new home that i deserve”
All we have been hearing is that banks were predatory, shouldn’t have made the loans, and consumers are too stupid to understand their own finances… so basically, no one is at fault, so why should they be penalized (sarcasm off).
Of course, all the good credit folks are going to be paying out the wazoo for it.
Tom (tfo) –
Thanks for all the info. All good points.
I see what you’re saying about negotiating as well. Although I didn’t really phrase my question well. I didn’t mean that is how I would actually go about it, I just didn’t want someone to come back and say “the rent itself is negotiable”. I was trying to isolate the matter of whether or not there would be a discount for paying upfront.
You make a good point that a good landlord shouldn’t have much need for having the rent upfront. Any landlord that is enticed by that is likely to be facing financial difficulties, bringing us back to your first point of foreclosure, etc.
I guess I’m just always looking into options to save a few bucks!
Ask Bob – he’s always bragging about sticking it to his landlord. I mean, getting $ off his rent.
“It seems pretty cut and dry to me.”
I never get that from the groove’s comments, bradford, unless he is dissin’ Bucktown.
The real problem now is certainly not car dealers correctly pricing risk. It is home lenders incorrectly pricing risk.
And, since the taxpayers are the final bagholders, this is certain to not end well.
Jon, every renter should know that today’s market rents are lower than yesterday’s.
If you can’t negotiate it down, you aren’t trying hard enough.
“You can’t negotiate a final price, and then renegotiate. Thats not acting in good faith. ”
“Ask Bob – he’s always bragging about sticking it to his landlord. I mean, getting $ off his rent.”
Well my situation technically isn’t renegotiating. My landlord forgot to renew my lease on the parking spot so I went month to month and I saw a lower rate so I demanded that rate ($50 cheaper). As there is no contractual document for this spot I don’t feel its in bad faith.
For the actual rent portion he is now offering $80/month lower to new tenants, however there is a legal document with my name on it agreeing to the higher rent through next March so I did not ask for a reduction in that one. But to be sure come lease renewal I will.
G:
Lenders just do whatever there is a secondary market for generally, definitely a stretch to say they truly price in risk. If the loan can be sold, most lenders will make the loan regardless of how idiotic. The secondary market is not all that great in pricing risk either because it is too efficient (don’t have the time -at least won’t make time- to assess loans on an individual basis).
If you really want to see the real risk based cost of a mortgage, you have to look at what portfolio lenders (jumbo loans primarily now) are doing and what PMI companies are charging to insure the conforming mortgages.
DC-
More power to you for negotiating. Just lay it all out and push your good points-stellar credit, stellar & verifiable rental history, solid job, just one person, etc. I don’t know which apply to you specifically. Make sure your current landlord is reacable to verify.
If I have a prospective tenant thats got 700+ credit, a previous landlord that actually calls me back, 2+ years at the same job, then I’m more willing to be flexible on the monthly amount. Especially if I have a 2bedroom, and its only 1 person or a couple. I figure slightly less wear & tear, less people to deal with as oppossed to if it was a couple + a friend.
Theres alway a little give or take. Try it out. But I would expect too huge of a discount for prepayment.
Bob,
Your plan is more than reasonable and in good faith. These are the market rates and you have not agreed to otherwise beforehand. Good luck and I hope you get the reduction. Assuming your a half-way decent tenant you mostlikely should. The landlord won’t let you go, only to have to re-rent the unit for the same lower amount that you wanted.
Tom(tfo) where are your buildings located? You seem very knowledge about being a landlord. I know quite a few landlord and I have fairly good concept of how the whole process works.
“a previous landlord that actually calls me back”
This made me laugh. Back in my NYC landlord days it was customary to reply to calls about good tenants with somber tones and a vague “we can’t release the info due to liability concerns but we truly wish we could.” If we wanted them out we were effusive in our praise. It sure beat housing court.
I just checked craigslist and my landlord is offering my unit for $110 less. Its going to be tough to bite my lip for for months and leave $440 on the table to act in good faith.
Another great perk of being a renter in times of deflation: you can renegotiate lower every year!
G-
I’d had better luck in most of my dealings. I think the rental market in NYC is a different beast than in Chicago.
If I’m dealing with a managment company I send a questionairre and a copy of the release to the office. Atleast that way I *hope* it more likely to be honest. When dealing with ‘independant’ landlords, I always check to see if the name/number the tenant gave me matches the owner of the property (via CCRD). The credit check also helps. The ones I get list know address-based on the address that was associated with the loan, credit card, collection,etc.
I once had a prospective that said he only lived in the dorms at college and then back at his parents once he graduated. Credit report came back with multiple previous addresses and most importantly a collection from a previous apartment complex.
Bradford,
“He said the lenders were “scum” because they charge his deadbeat friends appropriately. *shrug*”
sorry i am usually never clear on my posts (i do try getting work done at my job 🙂 )
I never said that the scum car dealers are dirtbags cause they over charge my truly deadbeat friends. My buds deserve that insane rate cause they are idiots and DEADBEATS
Car dealers are the lowest form of humans for so many other reasons
GOOD LOOKING OUT G 🙂
i was in a meeting without my laptop so couldnt defend myself 🙁
Tom(tfo),
Although you are diligent at screening your applicants for credit worthiness, there are ample landlords willing to overlook it. Just do a search on craigslist for bad credit.
Many more would likely ignore it if you dangled a multi-month deposit in front of them I suspect.
All those apartment finder services make most of their money by doing credit checks
Any tenant with any sense knows that if they cut out those apartment finding services they can either negotiate a discount on their rent or a free month. Those apartment finding services are economic vampires.
“Those apartment finding services are economic vampires.”
agreed. Whenever I ahve a unit available I get a few calls looking to list my unit with them. They tout their great, pre-screened tenants. My first question is how are they prescreened. They tell me that they have stellar credit,great references, and a steady job. I ask if they pulled a credit report, spoke with the current landlord, or verified employeement with HR. The answer is always no and then they tell that they can’t do that until the tenant chooses a unit to lease. So in the end, there just bring anyone off the street. That person could easily just call me and see the place. Also, if you go to Company A, they only show you places listed with them.
Last summer I was working in my front yard. One of these apartment finder leaches walked past my place with some tenants to look at a place down the block. I had a for rent sign out front of my place at the time. On their way back the leach told me her clients were interest in seeing my unit and if I wanted to be listed by her company. When I said no, see said (in front of the tenants) that she would show the place to them if I didn’t. So I told her client to call me directly. She proceeded to go nuts and start yell at me about poaching her clients. The tenants just stood behind her looking shocked at what was going on. It was just a hilarious exchange since she was acting and talking about these people who were feet away, like they weren;t around.
Apartment finders are typically pre-realtards or post-realtards, and they are always idiots.
“Groove77 on November 11th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Bradford,
I never said that the scum car dealers are dirtbags cause they over charge my truly deadbeat friends. My buds deserve that insane rate cause they are idiots and DEADBEATS”
I know you didn’t. You said that “Subprime auto lenders are…scum of the earth.”
You specifically referred to the lenders, and now you appear to be backpedaling.
Lenders price risk. Your friends are risky. If they don’t like it, tough $hit. Buy a bicycle.
Isn’t there a bank account score? I can’t remember the name…. FICO scores and credit reports seem to have a lot of mistakes.
Banks have a database somewhere it shows up if you ever owe another bank some funds. Credit unions tend not to do this. Its not so much as a score but rather they won’t let you open an account until you clear up the issues with the other bank(s), as far as I know. For all loan decisions as far as I know FICO is the standard.
Bradford,
yes I did start talking about the lenders but side trackedd to the auto dealers.
I take it you haven’t bought many cars in your life, I would rather have a root canal than go buy a car