Cheaper Than a Single Family Home: 4735 N. Whipple in Ravenswood Manor
This Georgian 2-flat at 4735 N. Whipple in Ravenswood Manor was built in 1916.
The top unit is 3 bedrooms/1 bath and the first floor unit is 2 bedrooms/1 bath. They also have dining rooms and updated sun rooms.
The property has many of its vintage features intact including the wood work.
The units also have individual washer/dryers in unit but no central air.
The 2-flat is on an oversized 30×125 lot and has a 2.5 car garage.
You can walk to the Francisco El stop from the property which is a selling point for the rental unit.
This property is cheaper than any of the single family homes in the neighborhood. Does it make sense to live in one and rent out the other?
Eric Rojas at Prudential Rubloff has the listing. See more pictures here.
See the property website here.
4735 N. Whipple: 5 bedrooms, 2 baths, 2.5 car garage, 2-flat
- Sold in June 1998 for $199,000
- Originally listed in April 2008
- Was listed at $475,000 in the fall of 2009
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $430,000
- Taxes of $6461
- No Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the units
Nice 2nd floor unit. I actually thought it was a condo at first since the agent did not show any pictures of the yard or first floor unit (or even the floorplan of the first and basement levels). Makes me wonder what condition the first floor is in.
Per Eric’s site this was first listed at $500 in August ’08.
375k
This is what 2-flats in north center/roscoe village sold for in 2000/2001.
No pix of the 1st floor due to tenants? Is the layout the same except the 3d BR (which is the common foyer on the 1st)?
What’s the basement like? 7.5+ ft? Totally raw?
Did they build a new garage? google earth shows a sub-20′-wide garage, with space to the side to drive into the backyard–are the neighbors still doing that?
It’s not as common to see two wet walls (kitchen and bath on opposite sides) in these places; adds flexibility in renovation, if you were ever to convert to SFH.
I’d be curious to know how much both units would rent for and if that would cover your carrying costs. Aren’t rents very low in Albany Park?
I like what I see so far, but I agree that I would like to see more pictures of the rest of the house.
Not a Fan of the brick work on the front porch, also not a fan of being that close to lawernce and kedize. (i know ravenswood manor are is nice and stuff)
all in all 430k for the whole building even without Central Air is looking good
– Sold in June 1998 for $199,000
Give or take a little for renovation and the garage and inflation.
Taxes are hefty b/c no homeowner’s exemption.
This building likely cash flowed based on the 1998 price. It needs to return to a similar price level so it can cash flow today.
No investor with any common sense and a hefty downpayment is going to pay $430k for this house.
Maybe an owner occupier moron with 3.5% down and a FHA loan….there aren’t too many of those fools left with a credit score decent enough to get a loan.
Investment two flats on the northwest side, which arguably includes this neighborhood, are selling in the $200’s and low $300’s. This is way overpriced. This owner missed his opportunity to sell for half a million in 2006. Now he’s chasing the market down. Good luck with that!
Anyone want to guess what is going to happen to all those who bought 2 flats at 600K or more in north center or lincoln square (or anywhere for that matter)
massive walk aways? forclosures? do you think people even realize what they have done?
The owners will eventually bleed to death, financially, or they will short sale them for appropriate amounts of money.
The former will take a while but the latter will come about when the administration demands it, which is already starting to happen.
“Anyone want to guess what is going to happen to all those who bought 2 flats at 600K or more in north center or lincoln square (or anywhere for that matter)”
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4816-N-California-Ave-60625/home/22911948
$345 short sale
2-flat
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4848-N-Washtenaw-Ave-60625/home/13490642
$317k
“Anyone want to guess what is going to happen to all those who bought 2 flats at 600K or more in north center or lincoln square (or anywhere for that matter)
massive walk aways? forclosures? do you think people even realize what they have done?”
Really depends largely on the elementary school and whether they are o/o or not. If you’re talking about LS, north of Lawrence, I would expect a lot of walk aways. If you’re talking within Bell attendance area, it’s a different answer–some are still trading in the mid-500s, so you’d have to have zero equity to not at least try to sell.
“Anyone want to guess what is going to happen to all those who bought 2 flats at 600K or more in north center or lincoln square (or anywhere for that matter)
massive walk aways? forclosures? do you think people even realize what they have done?”
Keep paying the mortgage?
You do know that as time goes on, more of your payment goes to principal right?
Eric Rojas criticized Greg Whelan in another CC post for not advising his clients to paint all the rooms one color and stage it better.
What’s going on with this place Eric?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4904-N-Troy-St-60625/home/17549748
$180k
two flat
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3113-W-Wilson-Ave-60625/home/13489202
$231k
two-flat
I think history shows time and time again it’s easier just to walk away than to actually pay down principal. In fact our laws encourage it.
“You do know that as time goes on, more of your payment goes to principal right?”
Has anyone been in this place? Investors can buy a distressed property and “cash flow”. This is not distressed in condition or financially. Best use is owner that actually needs a home on top floor with renter or extended family on first floor. It’s fairly inexpensive for someone to own for the proxmity to “tony” Ravenswood Manor (and for the person that is not a gut rehabber… which is why they’ve passed on other buildings at this price and are now coming to us).
My estimate is $1200 with a parking spot included for renting the first floor two bedroom apartment. I have friends in owner/operator buildings on 3000 block of West Eastwood that get these numbers easy without parking. The proximity to the Brown line is great. Rents are getting lower west of here, especially west of Kedzie. East of Kedzie is much stronger.
These are the largest restored, units I’ve seen in a two flat for sale $400-$450 this far east and near within a couple blocks of Francisco Brown line. Downstairs kitchen/baths almost identical and in move-in condition needless of renovation (unless changing material preferences).
At $430K these past couple weeks weve had 6 showings and buyers have all been those wanting to live in the building.
This half block is tough on some buyers due to the multi-units across the street. That has not helped. These are large living spaces while smaller outdated rental quality buildings have sold closer to $500K a couple blocks east in Ravenswood Manor. There is a floorplan of the top floor unit on the Virtual Tour photography link for the property.
So, I like our chances at $430K.
Few want to look west of this location…we’re the edge of where people can go becasue they can’t face the market reality east of Whipple. What’s great about $430K is we’ve attracted some familys that already live in Albany Park that will have extended family live with them.
When we were at $474,900 late in the fall we had a serious second showing from a woman in the neighborhood…she ended up buying a three-flat at the 2700 block of West Argyle for $475K (closed price). I thought that was a nice purchase (and had another client asleep at the wheel that passed it up) but the building NEEDED all new windows and roof ASAP. Kitchens were small and terribly appointed with bad layouts. Living space and bedrooms were good size. That location is not convenient for those using public transportation. So you get the extra unit, but smaller outdated spaces further from the trains/busses with a good $30K needed right away for repairs. Depends on how the buyer will use the home.
Sorry Eric R – I didn’t realize this was your listing. I usually try to avoid posting negative comments on properties where the listing agent is a regular here b/c it’s kind of rude. I broke my own rule, again, and I feel rude. Again, my apologies. No more from me on this thread.
@Ned_Flanders,
Good study.
Mr Whelan may have advised his clients to paint a small condo and I may have adised my clients too.
HD:
You ran out of LS two-flats after only 2 of them? Obvioulsy, those A-Parkers are comps if you’re going the land baron route, but if you were planning to live in one, then I don’t think west of the river is comparable to east of the river, and none of them is a good comp to S or Lawrence, E of Western.
Of course, anyone who paid $600k++ for a two-flat, intending to rent out both of them, is going to be hurting now and for the mid-term future, unless they are *really* nice units, in an A+ lcoation, which very, very few are.
@homedelete,
No rules needed. I may disagree with the actual market for this particular building vs. some example you have given (not apples to apples etc..), but this is the Internets man.
Agents are freaked about this site… it’s hilarious!
Agents are freaked out about anything that disseminates info 🙂
Maybe I am old school in that I think that buildings prices should reflect the cost of money and the value of the rents, you know like they did for decades.
I also believe that owner occupied units should reflect the cost of what owning a similar condo unit would cost. So if I have a $500K 2 flat, and I get $1200 in rent for one unit then what I am saying is I have a $150K unit, and a $350K unit (ok advance apologies for quick math) I should be getting an equivalent value, and I have not seen that in most buildings
Of course since I am on CC I am also jaded ?
I wish I still lived near that hood. My wife and I would have loved to be able to purchase a 2 flat in Ravenswood Manor for under $450K.
Haywood, I get your wish that you would like to buy at a price where your ability to rent would cover your mortgage. However, there is a marketplace out there and demand for housing is what it is.
But in this case, you can buy the building for let’s say $425,000. In the olden days with 20% down, (85K) you now mortgage $340,000 at say 5.5%. This alone is a very affordable loan for many people if they value the location in the first place etc…
Now, subtract $1,200 a month from your mortgage payment should you have a renter. This is cheap to own a good sized building.
In this building, someone could own a good sized three bedroom top floor, get a full basement for storage, workshop etc…, get the back yard (now pavered patio) and garage. Some day, they may end up using it as a single family when they’ve paid down the nut a little and re-finance.
For a borderline Ravenswood Manor location on the Brown Line, this is pretty affordable considering the size of units, and that building/mechanicals are in great shape.
In the nearby radius, there are few homes like this where a small family could live on one floor while a renter helps with the mortgage. What families need/want most are storage and yard and the basement+ 2 car garage trumps 99% of condo unit storage. If your buying for a home and even for owner operator now and hold and rent later.. these numbers are not bad.
You can’t touch this place east of Sacramento for near this price, so I don’t think we are (finally) out of whack for the real buyer market.
“But in this case, you can buy the building for let’s say $425,000.”
Spoken like the true listing agent. I bet your seller will come down more than $5K from the list price after 8+ months on the market. Just had to find a little fault in the hypothetical here – the other points are well-taken.
Eric:
What’s with the garage? Is it new or is it not really 2.5 car?
Is the basement full height and nice or short and dumpy? Or some other combo?
@ Jon,
What would my seller like me to say… “if you get it for say, $300K”? We were already on for 8 months at $499K.
anon, 2.5 car garage and an outdoor space next to it for a car. The full sized basement is about 6’8″, with pipes coming down lower in areas. Condition is not bad… I’m 6ft and walk around comfortably. Great for storage, workshop and laundry. No issues.
Eric,
I am going against the CribChatter rules here…. i do think 430k is a reasonable price.
for me personal preferance, i for one cannot do another house without C/A (i lug 3 100lbs A/C window units in and out of storage twice a year, i say no more)
another thing i do not fancy is these Stone porches that are springing up around the city and especially lincolnwood. Its even worse when the stone doesnt match the brick of the house.
plus i am not a fan of the lawernce and kedzie area.
but thats all just me and my quirks 🙂
“anon, 2.5 car garage and an outdoor space next to it for a car.”
I’m really not trying to make something out of nothing, but if the lot is 30′ wide, and a normal perpendicular parking space is 9′ wide, how does a 2.5 garage + an additional pad fit on the lot?
Also, the aerial views I find show a ~20′ square garage (measured to the eaves)–which is why I asked if teh garage is new. Maybe 2.5 Tata Nanos, but not 2.5 regular cars.
This is really stretching it for “Ravenswood Manor”. Take a look at the 4700 block of Whipple and compare it to, say, the 4700 block of Manor or 4600 block of Francisco and you’ll see what I mean. I live nearby and when you cross over Sacramento it becomes a totally different feeling.
Agree with the comments re the neighborhood.
Also, to the 2.5 garage + parking spot issue– I actually have that on a similarly sized lot, so it can fit.
The “issue” is not whether the parking pad fits next to the garage– 20” garage + 9-10 feet for the pad works.
You’ve just gotta remember what 2.5 car garage means. Could mean a Tata, but usually in Chicago it means a few feet of workspace / bike parking space behind two– and only two– parking spots.
“You’ve just gotta remember what 2.5 car garage means. Could mean a Tata, but usually in Chicago it means a few feet of workspace / bike parking space behind two– and only two– parking spots.”
Okay, it’s 23′ deep (to the eaves). Not what I think of as .5 Garage, but perhaps I’m too harsh.
I’ve never heard it defined that way either, anon. Just another realtor-deception(tm). We will soon see even the “good” ones (cough, spit) making this claim with the excuse that “everyone else does it, so to not attempt the same deception would be a disservice to our client.”
Also, “a few feet of … bike parking space” better be for some *really* crappy bikes (or you better not let strangers see them in there, ever). Bikes in the garage is one of the most frequent causes for garage break-ins.
calling an extra ~2′ a .5 garage is sort of like calling the laundry-room sink a .5 bath. 2+ (or 2-plus) could work for me, but really, that two feet just means you can *probably* park your F-150 Superbcab (w/ the 8′ bed) in the garage and still squeeze around it.
JC
This property is in Albany Park. I usually ad “Ravenswood Manor area” in ads and on the Internets to get the dreamers priced out of their coveted Manor to come look at this place. I should start calling it West Ravenswood Manor just to upset a couple people.
West Ravenswood Manor two flat for sale….done.
…and for the record, the author of this blog writes the headline copy, I don’t.
Closed 3/29/10 for $410K