Portage Park Vintage Cottage With Good Bones: 4947 W. Pensacola
The listing for this 3-bedroom Portage Park brick cottage at 4947 W. Pensacola admits that the house is being sold “as-is” and that it “needs TLC/updating.”
It is an estate sale.
The house has many of its vintage features intact including a wood burning fireplace, beamed ceilings, built-ins and original door knobs.
All three bedrooms are on the second floor.
It is located just a few blocks from the Mayfair Metra stop.
The house doesn’t have central air, but it does have a two car garage and an unfinished basement.
Is this a deal for those with the vision to renovate it?
Theressa Boyce at Dream Town has the listing. See more pictures here.
4947 W. Pensacola: 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 2 car garage, 1094 square feet
- Sold prior to the 1990s
- Currently listed as an estate sale for $199,000
- Taxes of $652 (senior exemption)
- No central air- window units
- Bedroom #1: 13×11
- Bedroom #2: 10×9
- Bedroom #3: 9×8
Horror movie set.
May have some structural problems: appears to have roof leakage. And too bad that the front porch was enclosed as it destroyed the integrity of the original house. The brick work on the original house is great/ nice detailing. Without an addition, turning it into a workable 2 bedroom up with upgrades would be a “labor of love” at a minimum of 200K so the asking is about 99K too much
this is one the should have put away the high def camera and broke out the cell phone snap shot.
You can now get downtown properties for ~$200/sf. So what makes them think this trashed POS is worth $182/sf?
Also,
as ed hit it on the head catching the front porch becoming enclosed killing the detail of the front of the house.
kind of wish that you could just pick up the house and but the back in the front 🙂
westloop, or Tom (ufo) what do you think the cost of getting it back to livable would be? at 199k would it even be worth it in a hood with the market being 250-350k homes?
and i dont see vents in the bathrooms or windows, that never ends well.
bahahahaha anyone that buys this is nuts
this house was obviously owned by some senior citizen level 9 hoarder and I can’t even imagine how in the hell they’ll get 200k for this considering how gross this place must be
anyone that watches “hoarders” knows what Im talkin about 🙂
Yeah, the price is nits — probably more like $50-$75k in that location. Could be a nice place though, but would need a LOT of work.
Kudos to the ambitious Realtor(TM) though for the amount of info in that listing — floor plan, virtual tour, etc. Not sure the house merits it, but always better to have too much information.
I feel bad for the owner. I agree with the other posters, though. I don’t think this is a deal or an even an option for 99.99% of people at ANY price.
If there is no mortgage (or if the mortgage is low), maybe the owner could do some quick repairs and rent it out to cover costs for the next few years. Alternatively, they should lower the price significantly to get a sale – however, even at lower than 100k, it may not sell. Someone would have to buy it for cash as it will likely not appraise out. … too many problems – very depressing.
They’re comping the price between two-flats and bungalows which are selling in the low 200’s and the high 100’s respectively. However, this property needs work and there’s no way it’ll sell within 40% of it’s current listing price. This as a foreclosure would get snapped up by an investor for $120k, $130k and after some lipstick on a pig, resell within weeks in the high $200’s. Just another typical day in the MLS. So many overpriced properties, so few sales…the pundits blame everything under the sun for the current malaise EXCEPT for the real reason: 98% of the homes in the MLS are significantly overpriced. Not just a little overpriced, but significantly. Like this property. 40% overpriced. Even a lowball offer of 15% off list is still $170k and it needs to be $120k.
Ufff
Ambitious pricing!!!
Impossible to tell if this would take 75k or 180k to get into shape. New roof? Bathroom mold possibilities? Fixing that front porch? Can you actually do anything with the unfinished basement or will you need to spend $20k to get the foundation fixed to make it usable? And then there’s the obvious kitchen, floors, central air, new furnace etc….
Even if you could get it for 60-70k, would you want to pour 100k into it given that FHA financing will tighten up by the time you’ve finished the work? What happens when you need 6.5% down and no “seller plays closing games”? Simplistically, double the down payment means the buyer can afford half the house (yes that’s worst case, I know)
This is a great indicator of what’s going to happen to a lot of neighborhoods in Chicago. Dramatic underinvestment until uncertainty declines significantly.
homedelete – do you really think it would sell at 120k? It seems as though it needs a LOT of work (and you never know what is under the surface). To put in 50-75k and weeks/months of work to MAYBE eek out a 10k-20k (?) profit (after fees, closing costs) does NOT seem worth it at all. Way too risky in this market… I don’t think anyone would even buy this for 100k (unless they were looking for themselves, long term and wanted to live in this area).
Oh, there’s a price for this home, believe me. Price this at 50k and there will be so many bids that the fax machine will run out of paperwork and the agent’s e-mail box will get so full it will crash the computer.
3 beds, two and a half baths, garage access, decent area in the city (although out of the green zone) and you can walk to the metra and probably the el. There are plenty of worse homes out there.
“clio on September 7th, 2010 at 11:14 am
I feel bad for the owner. I agree with the other posters, though. I don’t think this is a deal or an even an option for 99.99% of people at ANY price. “
There’s a lot of lipstick on a pig going on out there with flippers. They fix what is absolutely necessary and buy the rest of the supplies at home depot. Yes to upgrade this house to fancy pancy standards it will be expensive but to rehab you can make do with the HOme despot especial.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4640-W-Waveland-Ave-60641/home/13457711
A few blocks away from this home: A bungalow bought in April for $112k, rehabbed and then flipped for $310k in August, went under contract in weeks. Heck, if this were on the other side of Milwaukee at this price I’d be a homeowner today.
HOme “despot especial”.
perhaps a place for Hugo Chavez? 🙂 great typo HD
“There’s a lot of lipstick on a pig going on out there with flippers”
I guess the question is: are there a lot of flippers still out there? As a former flipper (now, a flip-flopper) I know that I, personally would NOT take on such a risk. You would need a lot of cash. Even if you bought it for 100k (which likely would have to be cash), you would need at least another 75k (also cash) to rehab it. You now have invested 175k CASH in the hopes that someone will buy it. In this market, I think that is a pretty risky investment.
Somebody would buy a fully rehabbed, turnkey, move-in ready 3 bed 2 bath home with a garage in the high $200’s in a heartbeat. at $120k put in $100k sell for $295k and you’re making some profit. You need to have a couple projects going at a time. it’s a volume business. Gone are the days wehre you’re going to make $100k or more on a single low end flipper property.
“#clio on September 7th, 2010 at 11:50 am
“There’s a lot of lipstick on a pig going on out there with flippers”
I guess the question is: are there a lot of flippers still out there? As a former flipper (now, a flip-flopper) I know that I, personally would NOT take on such a risk. You would need a lot of cash. Even if you bought it for 100k (which likely would have to be cash), you would need at least another 75k (also cash) to rehab it. You now have invested 175k CASH in the hopes that someone will buy it. In this market, I think that is a pretty risky investment.”
“Somebody would buy a fully rehabbed, turnkey, move-in ready 3 bed 2 bath home with a garage in the high $200’s in a heartbeat. ”
homedelete – you may have hit on a great idea for a new business – linking people looking for a “turn-key” home with investors looking for a “sure thing”. The people buying the home in the high 290s likely do not have the cash or “know-how” to finance a major rehab so they would likely agree to this. Honestly, if you could find a buyer willing to pay in the high 290s for this house and could guarantee the costs for the rehab wouldn’t go above 100-120k (and then would sell at 120k), I, myself, would agree to finance the whole thing.
“(and then would sell at 120k),”
I meant (and the owners of the current house would sell it for 120k)
a 3bed/1.bath a block or so down the street (bungalow and looks like it was probably somewhat larger in size and needed at least a little less work – “The house needs work and is being sold as-is.” -with a slightly longer, corner lot, and an attic, no CA, radiator heat, fplc, 2 car garage, no extra parking pad/easement, sold for 200k cash, in May of this year. Flrg listed as carpet and vinyl. Not much info about basement.
back in 2006/2007 (and lord knows it is NOT 2006), these houses (there a bunch of them – very similar – along this and other surrounding blocks – were selling for the mid-300s, 320k, 380k, as is.
google maps – check out the street and other similar homes:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=4947+w+pensacola+chicago+illinois&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.214763,56.162109&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=4947+W+Pensacola+Ave,+Chicago,+Cook,+Illinois+60641&ll=41.964341,-87.751794&spn=0,0.013711&z=16&iwloc=A&layer=c&cbll=41.959769,-87.751704&panoid=oeIDT6E5TG8bKLZjcqpg7g&cbp=12,176.6,,0,5.79
END
JMM – there are old dilapidated and neglected homes all over the place. Old people are usually on fixed incomes and have no income to pay for a home equity loan to upkeep the house.
Expect the beautiful homes of many of today’s soon-to-be-retired boomers to look the same in 35 or 40 years.
“at least another 75k (also cash) to rehab it”
HD. You’re assuming that the damage on the floors doesn’t mean you need a new roof and that the other big ticket items – like heat etc… all turn out best case.
I’m sure folks will buy turnkey properties in the mid-upper 200’s. But there are A LOT of options out there (with more coming every day)
Seems to me, for it to be worth the risk and trouble, the total investment in the home (acquisition and rehab) would need to be 175k cash. Maybe in a more stable market where you were certain you could get $280-90 for it you’d pay $200 or $220 all in, but if things keep heading south you may need to accept $250 after all the work is done.
So if all the problems everyone has talked about turn out to be “easier” fixes, then you’d pay around $80-100k. If the fixes turn out to be on the more expensive end, a flipper would have to get this at $20-30k to justify the investment. Ouch.
It’s telling that even the most optimistic numbers we’re throwing around are not even in the ballpark of list
Clio, LOVE the idea. Now how would you get FHA, Fannie, or Freddie to sign off on it? After all, it’s not like a typical borrower can get a loan elsewhere, so one of those 3 players would have to be on board. This idea is exhibit A of all the things that go wrong when you don’t have a functioning private mortgage market (mostly because banks aren’t solvent).
“clio on September 7th, 2010 at 11:58 am
“Somebody would buy a fully rehabbed, turnkey, move-in ready 3 bed 2 bath home with a garage in the high $200’s in a heartbeat. ”
homedelete – you may have hit on a great idea for a new business – linking people looking for a “turn-key” home with investors looking for a “sure thing”. The people buying the home in the high 290s likely do not have the cash or “know-how” to finance a major rehab so they would likely agree to this. Honestly, if you could find a buyer willing to pay in the high 290s for this house and could guarantee the costs for the rehab wouldn’t go above 100-120k (and then would sell at 120k), I, myself, would agree to finance the whole thing.”
as it is indicated in the listing information, we all know this is an estate sale which tends to indicate that there are children/heirs/relatives of the former owner (children/heirs/family who likely loved those former owners – and who maybe even grew up in this house) listing this home and trying to sell it. talking about pricing and all that is fair game, of course. but writing here about rotting corpses and hoarding owners isn’t very thoughtful – or helpful. in fact it’s rude and uncalled for.
when your parents or loved ones die, and you must sell their home/s, i hope that the rest of the world is more respectful to you. . . . and thinks just a little bit more before posting something like the two above comments.
“Clio, LOVE the idea. Now how would you get FHA, Fannie, or Freddie to sign off on it? ”
FHA, Fannie/Freddie wouldn’t be involved until the rehab was complete. Until then, the risk is totally on the investor. Of course, the investor can minimize the risk through signed contracts and a deposit from the potential homeowner. It IS still a risk for the investor, but one that they may be willing to take after proper “vetting” of the client.
adding a front porch and raising the entry door or ripping out the enclosure to the front door would greatly improve its curb appeal. it’s an intertesting lay out and really different brick work w/ all the stone. great light fixture in the dining room, but don’t know about that bathroom ceiling. someone will buy it to flip or live in, as it shows great potential. but yeah, a lot of money to repair its former glory.
So you’re suggesting 2 seperate transactions: flipper purchases house and improves it then sells it to new homeowner. Similar to the old days but with contracts in place and the opportunity to customize from the getgo… Interesting could be a legal nightmare though
“FHA, Fannie/Freddie wouldn’t be involved until the rehab was complete. Until then, the risk is totally on the investor. Of course, the investor can minimize the risk through signed contracts and a deposit from the potential homeowner. It IS still a risk for the investor, but one that they may be willing to take after proper “vetting” of the client.”
The flip with a buyer already concept is really not much different than the situation between a homebuyer and builder in many new home subdivision – A house isn’t built until there is a contracted buyer.
The “flipper” would have to provide warranties to sugar coat the deal for the buyer.
This concept is much better than the “flipper on spec” past.
Stunning pictorial of what happens when you don’t take care of your property.
“So you’re suggesting 2 seperate transactions: flipper purchases house and improves it then sells it to new homeowner”
Exactly – now if one could only come up with a way to marry the prospective home buyers and investors, one may have a successful business on their hands. I am sure I could provide the investors… now we just need the important half!!!
too bad craigslist discontinued that section…
“Exactly – now if one could only come up with a way to marry the prospective home buyers and investors, one may have a successful business on their hands. I am sure I could provide the investors… now we just need the important half!!!”
heres something i posted a while ago.not excatly the same neighborhood.the guy turned it over in a few weeks.and got 200k for the finished home.this particular area seems to be one of the hardest hit by foreclosures,at least on the north side.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2922-N-Kildare-Ave-60641/home/18792783
i think this house on pensacola needs too much work for the price they are asking.
how much do you think the rehabber put into the kildare property (including labor?) Is he making $20k profit or more you think? If he’s got 2 going at a time that is $40k a month…
The hard part is find the $100k properties that only need $60 or 70k in work to make it move-in ready. They’re aren’t any out there.
“The hard part is find the $100k properties that only need $60 or 70k in work to make it move-in ready. They’re aren’t any out there.”
With all the costs (buy/sell/carrying/etc) probably need closer to 25% gross profit to net 10%. Which only makes it harder.
Clio and Westloopelo
Back in the mid 90’s I was introduced to a friend of a friend in KY who who had a flipping business that would line up decent section 8 qualified tennants with a family that included father mother and kids. They would pick a location they liked in Lousiville in the obvious neighborhoods that would support lower income families. He would then find a suitable flip home and make that property hit a certain budget. After reno they would move in with the section 8 voucher. He would then sell the note to a investor that looked for this type of rental income and tenant risk. He told me how great the model was. I was sceptical at the time. It is a similar idea as clio suggested above on a cheaper scale.
Anyone think that this would work?
Jp3 –
as you already figured out – not only do I think it is “do-able”, I think it actually could be a good business. There ARE people out there with money to invest and there ARE people out there who will buy “turn-key” properties. Now, like I said, we just need to find a middleman and a venue through which to unite the two. If you can do this, you could be looking at making some good money (with very little risk to the middle man who is only arranging the union).
as far as the kildare property,i bet the rehabber put about 25k in materials into it.depending on who he had doing the actual work is where the $$ went.a lot of these rehabbers just go over to the gas station at milwaukee and belmont every morning and pick up a few of the day laborers that hang around and pay them $9 an hour.
i owned the kildare house in the early 90s and the mechanicals/roof had been updated already.i think the guy put in new floors/windows and re-did the kitchen and cleaned it up.
somebody is going to make a profit off the pensacola house after they fix it up.
“when your parents or loved ones die, and you must sell their home/s, i hope that the rest of the world is more respectful to you”
Thank you forrealestate- for your comments.
This is an estate sale. Someone could have lived in this home for 50 years or more. I have personally dealt with this. After a lifetime, things happen to homes. Not everyone puts in granite counter tops when they’re 80. Give me a break.
The house has good bones but you’re not buying it to move in next week. It’s obvious in the listing.
i agree with you sabrina.i bet there were a lot of wonderful memories in that house.and thats back in the day when people did actually live in the same place for decades.good bones indeed.i hope it finds a happy new owner.
saw it in person, I’m with you Sabrina – its sad to know that someone lived in this condition.
In my experience this year, if the top sale price threshold for gut rehab three bedroom, two bath home in a neighborhood is around $325K, professionals won’t touch a house for over $120K, usually $100K or less. I’ve seen frames in worse shape than this house this year get flipped by professionals in Irving Park, (a pretty dead hood)… purchase prices by the pros (no matter the condition of house) were $80-$110K and fast flip sales were under $$310-325K end product.
There is NO market for buyer’s looking to do their own gut rehab for their primary residence at these price points. Even though it makes sense from a market price stand-point, they are just not a demographic out there. It’s obvious with the crazy amout of $199K homes in Irving Park, Albany Park, Dunning, Portgage Park etc sitting on the market. So, if a buyer is willing to live in a city hood that has $325K nice gut rehabs, they don’t have the cash or know-how, or willingness to “do-it-yourself”.
Usually, a buyer looking to renovate and live in their own home are purchasing at least $300K and up (depending on the hood) and investing anywhere from $50K to $200 in their rehab over time (depending on the entry price). More money if truly a gut rehab. This excludes tear downs. We see a lot of this in Lakeview, Lincoln Park, Lincoln Square, hoods where people are spending bigger bucks to buy in and hold more value on their primary homes in the more expensive neighborhoods.
Areas of Lincoln Square and Ravenswood are a great place to pick up a frame or brick house or two-flat “move in” condition for near $400K and go a long way with $50K (even doing little skilled work yourself) to make the house nice, clean and very comfortable for a primary residence.
“go a long way with $50K (even doing little skilled work yourself) to make the house nice, clean and very comfortable for a primary residence.”
As I say *every* time someone posts something like this, please provide contact info for your contractor(s), as I’m looking to get some work done. anon_tfo at hotmail, if you don’t want to share with everyone.
“go a long way with $50K (even doing little skilled work yourself) to make the house nice, clean and very comfortable for a primary residence.”
IDK 50k would just cover the kitchen and 2.5 baths redo, if scaled down it could cover the roof and gutters too.
need to remember if your only skilled labor that you are going to be doing your self is the demo and the drywall, its best to just have the contractor do it for you, your time is worth more than he/she will charge you for those 2 aspects.
“There is NO market for buyer’s looking to do their own gut rehab for their primary residence at these price points”
oops started to rant on about this one but re-read and saw the “at these price points” which i can agree with.
what i have been seeing on the NW side, is the mexican community (no other latin communities) scoop up 80k-150k foreclosures and fixing them up with their own two hands, not to flip but for themselves and family.
the 150k places are usually brick with large yards and expandable attics, on the lower end 80k the grab the frame 2br place and just work on the inside and skip on siding and roofs.