A 2/2 Listed Under the 2007 Price in River North: 100 E Huron
This 2-bedroom in Chicago Place at 100 E. Huron in River North came on the market in June 2020.
Built in 1991, Chicago Place was built on top of a shopping mall on the Mag Mile, now shut. It has just 204 units and an attached valet rental garage.
I believe the mall has been converted into commercial office space.
It’s a full service building with a doorman, an indoor pool, exercise room, and sundeck.
This unit is on the 31st floor and appears to be west facing.
The kitchen has modern white and wood cabinets with stone counter tops, a tile backsplash, stainless steel appliances and a breakfast bar.
There are hardwood floors in the living/dining room, the kitchen and the second bedroom which has French doors.
The primary bedroom appears to have carpet and a bathroom with dual vanity.
It has the features buyers look for including central air and washer/dryer in the unit. Parking is available to rent in the building.
It’s near all the shops and restaurants of River North and all of the Mag Mile.
Originally listed in June 2020 for $639,000 is has been reduced $139,000 to $509,000.
That’s $120,000 below the 2018 purchase price of $629,000 as well as $5,500 under the 2007 price.
Is this a deal?
Judith Pielet at Baird & Warner has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #3107: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1309 square feet
- I couldn’t find an original sales price from the 1990s
- Sold in October 2007 for $514,500
- Sold in June 2013 for $530,000
- Sold in July 2018 for $629,000
- Originally listed in June 2020 for $639,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $509,000
- Assessments of $1063 a month (includes heat, a/c, doorman, cable, Internet, exercise room, indoor pool, exterior maintenance, scavenger, snow removal)
- Taxes of $10,696
- Central Air
- Washer/dryer in the unit
- Garage parking available for $265 to $325 a month
- Bedroom #1: 21×15
- Bedroom #2: 11×12
- Living/dining room: 17×20
- Kitchen: 17×8
Looks like they started trying to sell in May 2019 – HAWT ™
This isn’t a true 2Btr w/ the french doors opening to the LR. Finishes are fine but no different than a new apartment
$100k down and $4k/mo, renting seems a better option if you need a 1300sf/2Br especially the way this one is depreciating
Why bother buying when there’s so much uncertainty, and no evidence of appreciation? It’s hard saying what this area will even look like a year from now.
This unit screams “in-town place”. I do wonder with the glut and upcoming more glut of rental units, plus the upcoming lower rent pricing, will a place like this will have a had time selling?
“Why bother buying when there’s so much uncertainty, and no evidence of appreciation? It’s hard saying what this area will even look like a year from now.”
It does feel risky to buy a condo in Chicago these days. Especially something like a fairly basic 2/2 for 400-500K in a desirable neighborhood. It seems like 400k is the entry point for a decent 2/2 with a “normal HOA payment” and older finishes in LP, LV, WP, etc. How is something like that possibly going to appreciate much in the next 5-7 years?
“This unit screams in-town place”.
I am not sure someone would purchase this as an in-town place when there’s not much evidence that it’ll appreciate.
In lieu of a $4,000/mo payment + condo commitment, you could either
1.) rent a really nice apartment at $4,000 / mo, or
2.) Stay in a $500/night hotel 8 nights per month.
You’d come out ahead in either scenario as the principal could be invested instead of being tied to the condo.
I’ve seen far worse units, and the price isn’t too awful now that it’s been lowered. But there’s really no “wow” factor here. Parking and taxes are pretty high, too. This looks like more of a rental unit. And what’s with the glass bedroom doors? I’d have to replace those.
Views are so so. Too many buildings in the way.
Agree about now being a better time to rent than buy in this area. I chose to do that this year, renting a place in the Hancock for $250 less than it had been going for before Covid. This is a good time to reassess. I think summer will tell the tale. I’m hopeful now that vaccinations and summer weather will continue to push the caseload down and more people will be comfortable going to Michigan Ave, Navy Pier, Oak Street Beach, Rush Street. But if I’m wrong, it’s just a rental.
“I am not sure someone would purchase this as an in-town place when there’s not much evidence that it’ll appreciate.”
While I agree with the why would someone do this, its set up decently for a P-a-T
“1.) rent a really nice apartment at $4,000 / mo, or
2.) Stay in a $500/night hotel 8 nights per month.”
And keep a $100k in your pocket
I was under the impression that anything “New” was being snapped up and subject to a bidding war, is that not the case any more?
“How is something like that possibly going to appreciate much in the next 5-7 years?”
You mean real appreciation? Like CPI + [something]?
If this had merely kept up with inflation since ’07, it would be $650k.
Mar-94 original sale was $329k. +CPI, that would be $590k today.
27 years with a -14% total return in real dollars, before transaction costs.
I just can’t get over how awful this place is for the price lol
Just got to think about my in-town comment.
What do you guys think about the current in-town market with the affects of the ‘rona? Curious how much of the market of that is on hold, pent up demand waiting it out, or won’t return to normal?
“What do you guys think about the current in-town market with the affects of the ‘rona? Curious how much of the market of that is on hold, pent up demand waiting it out, or won’t return to normal?”
There’s no questioning that COVID is keeping people away from coming into the city for the weekend in the short term.
However, a depressed downtown, sky-high property taxes, and a market that is not appreciating will keep people from “investing” in downtown weekend residences long after COVID passes.
“What do you guys think about the current in-town market with the affects of the ‘rona? Curious how much of the market of that is on hold, pent up demand waiting it out, or won’t return to normal?”
There’s no questioning that COVID is keeping people away from coming into the city for the weekend in the short term.
However, a depressed downtown, sky-high property taxes, and a market that is not appreciating will keep people from “investing” in downtown weekend residences long after COVID passes.
I doubt that Chicago resi re has kept pace with inflation this century. If anyone can provide instances refuting my claim please post them.
#1802 at 100 E Huron was bought May 1996 for $390k and sold July 2020 for $507k.
For the 24 year period the condo’s price rose 1.1% per annum while the Chicago CPI rose 1.9% pa, or CPI minus 80 bps, an outcome a bit worse than most but not exceedingly so.
I’d like to see instances of houses that have clearly exceeded inflation over 20 years on apples-to-apples basis.
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/100-E-Huron-St-60611/unit-1802/home/14100374
I used this measure of inflation
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUURA207SA0
but there are others.
“I’d like to see instances of houses that have clearly exceeded inflation over 20 years on apples-to-apples basis.”
Well, your cited CPI is +45.35%, and Case Shiller is +54% for both condos and homes, so there have to be a lot of sale pairs that qualify as apples-apples under the C-S review.
I don’t think people looking for in-towns are as concerned with the investment aspect of ownership as you think. Many have plenty of money and just want a place where they can enjoy themselves surrounded by their own stuff. Of course they could do this is in a rental too, but many aren’t interested in renting and even if it makes more financial sense.
My parents are in their early 70’s and want to buy a country house to spend limited time at, kind of a pied-a-terre outside the city. I keep telling them they couldn’t possibly use and maintain this place as second home for more than 5-7 years and it makes MUCH more sense to rent. Most places they’re looking at need tons of work.
For them it’s inconceivable to rent even if it makes more financial sense. Even if it’s a money pit that never appreciates, all they care about is that it’s their place and they can do what they want with it and and enjoy it as they please. While they used to be aggressive investors they no longer even want a low rate mortgage. They know their time horizon is short and they don’t need to maximize every return. Getting what they want, and enjoying it now means more.
Anyone got a country house or place on a lake they want to sell? They don’t care about the lake, but I’m pushing for it since I’m sure I’ll be taking care of the place.
JohnnyU first to comment but can’t spell realtor.
“What do you guys think about the current in-town market with the affects of the ‘rona? Curious how much of the market of that is on hold, pent up demand waiting it out, or won’t return to normal?”
The inventory and price declines tell you what is happening downtown. “In-towns” or not.
Some are jumping in to get the deals but it’s not “hot.” Crain’s talked to several who bought because they felt like there were deals that haven’t been there in years.
But there were lines to get into restaurants over the weekend for St Patrick’s Day and most were tourists so I’m expecting downtown to come “back” pretty quickly over the summer.
Most people will miss the bottom in real estate. But the inventory has to decline to see price pressures.
“Views are so so. Too many buildings in the way.”
Views are very nice in these pictures. But One Chicago now looms west and it’s massive.
But that is downtown city living. Few have completely unobstructed views with Chicago still building 70 story+ buildings.
“Why bother buying when there’s so much uncertainty, and no evidence of appreciation? It’s hard saying what this area will even look like a year from now.”
I don’t understand this sentiment. The worst of the coronavirus pandemic and the protests is behind us. It’s only getting better from here.
And just 2 blocks away there will be a massive new Whole Foods and they keep building massive towers.
Investment is still happening.
The closed restaurants and shops will be leased in a year.
DAN2
renting a place in the Hancock
So what do you think? Old building but still well maintained?
a pool from back in the day is it worth it? the views from the pool?
still geriatric in the building?
one would presume this is original condition so no photos of the unit? can we say avocado greens?
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/175-E-Delaware-Pl-APT-8309-Chicago-IL-60611/3850479_zpid/?
“And just 2 blocks away there will be a massive new Whole Foods and they keep building massive towers.
Investment is still happening.”
Don’t confuse contracts pre ‘rona that contractually need to be completed as investments *currently happening
“The worst of the coronavirus pandemic and the protests is behind us. It’s only getting better from here.”
Unfortunately you went here. The unfettered optimism unable to see around the corner or what is already occurring.
Riots spiked in Portland again over the past week and the fencing around the Federal Courthouse had to be put back up a week after it was finally put down. Biden’s secret police (DHS) was shooting teargas and arresting people in the middle of downtown Portland.
Minneapolis – there’s this trial about to start. Not sure if you have heard of it. Have you looked at the pictures of the city? It looks like a US base in the middle of some warzone worried about IED’s surrounded by barbed wire, national guard troops, fencing, checkpoints, and other barriers. Ask yourself why? Even the judge lashed out at city officials this past week as a jury member had to recuse themselves due to the city settling the civil case (typically comes after trial). Further, the jury members remaining on the case are scared for their lives if they come back with the wrong verdict.
Washington DC – Also looks like a US base in the middle of a warzone. McConnell said the other week it reminds him of his trips to Kabul.
Protests will happen this year. You can guarantee it. Which of course is fine. The question is how big will the protests be along with frequency and the big one… will they be more than “93%” peaceful this go round? We will see.
Specifically to Chicago, some sort of police reform seems likely to come before city council at some point unless Lori keeps railroading her own legislation. If/when this is unveiled there will definitely be protests saying it doesn’t go far enough. I guarantee it.
“But there were lines to get into restaurants over the weekend for St Patrick’s Day and most were tourists”
Tourists came to Chicago on St. Pats day. How surprising…. along with lines to get into restaurants with 50% capacity limits…… so counting the line the indoor capacity would have been 60%? In addition 30% of restaurants have closed in the city.
If there wasn’t a line to get into places things would be doom and gloom for the restaurants/bars that have held on this long.
“But the inventory has to decline to see price pressures.”
You have said for months there is no inventory including in and around downtown outside of $1MM+ condos.
““But the inventory has to decline to see price pressures.”
You have said for months there is no inventory including in and around downtown outside of $1MM+ condos.”
JFC This is too funny
I guess inventory will have to go negative to see any price increase
You are a low rent JoeZ wannabe RE shill
“Can we say avocado greens?”
—————————
Don’t be gauche. At this price point we’re talking Harvest Gold.
Thanks for the sarcasm, Chichow. Hope you’re having a nice day, too.
I rented in the Hancock because I love the views. That’s basically it.
No – not original condition. New kitchen that’s open to the unit, and new bathroom. Original units suck.
Mine also has fake wood floors which are not beautiful, but certainly better than some old carpet. It’s very spacious and the ceiling is nearly 9 feet (some floors have higher ceilings than others, and I’m on one of the better ones).
Yes, still many geriatrics, but lots of young people, too. Kids, even.I’m 49 so I’m in the middle.
Pool looks nice but haven’t tried it yet. Rest of building is very well maintained, including gym, elevators, lobby. The views from all sides of 44 are nice.
And my wife, who’s very fussy and hadn’t been a Hancock lover, also loves the building and unit.
Yes the majority of Hanncock units are unfinished and horribly dated, but for a reason. It costs triple to remodel there, due to asbestos abatement required with and work done there. The cost ROI unfortunately isn’t there for a remodel.
The flip side is the units finishes were really well built, and yes look dated but are after all these years are still in better shape and more functional than stuff installed 5 years ago.
We looked at the Hancock in 2008, its a great building and well run. at that time HOA was solid.
Dan is the pool actually open now? And how do you feel about the prices at the grocery store?
“And my wife, who’s very fussy and hadn’t been a Hancock lover, also loves the building and unit.”
Sounds nice Dan #2.
There’s something to be said for an iconic building like this. There’s got to be a HUGE maintenance team so everything is kept up to date. It costs the home owner, but you’re a renter, so you don’t care.
“I guess inventory will have to go negative to see any price increase”
Prices are rising all over the city. But you don’t live in the city so you have no clue.
If you want to buy right now, outside of downtown, it’s very competitive and you will face bidding wars for the fully updated properties. Be prepared to pay over list.
“You have said for months there is no inventory including in and around downtown outside of $1MM+ condos.”
Inventory downtown has to decline to see pricing pressures there. Everywhere else in the city, it is non-existent which is why prices are rising.
Apparently some of you have never taken an economics course.
It’s called “supply and demand.”
“Prices are rising all over the city. But you don’t live in the city so you have no clue.
If you want to buy right now, outside of downtown, it’s very competitive and you will face bidding wars for the fully updated properties. Be prepared to pay over list.”
How about actually responding to what you wrote?
“But the inventory has to decline to see price pressures.”
“In addition 30% of restaurants have closed in the city.”
That’s not the case downtown, where the tourists go. The restaurants have been amazingly resilient and have adapted. New restaurants are opening every month in Chicago. Yes, NEW restaurants. During a pandemic.
Federal government aid has also helped. We’ve got to get all the employees vaccinated, though, and hope we don’t get a 4th outbreak like they’re having in Europe.
Once again, you are literally rooting AGAINST Chicago WP. You WANT it to fail (along with Illinois and America.)
Why???
The city is reawakening.
There have just been several big commercial real estate deals announced in Fulton Market in the last few weeks.
The city isn’t going anywhere. It will come back with full gusto.
Google just announced it was spending $7 billion to grab more office space around the country (yes, down from it’s initial $10 billion investment before the pandemic hit.) They will be hiring another 10,000 people this year.
The economy will be humming by later this year and Chicago will be a big driver of that.
Get on board or get left behind.
“Don’t confuse contracts pre ‘rona that contractually need to be completed as investments *currently happening”
Groove77, do you honestly think that Whole Foods, owned by Amazon, is NOT going to move into one of its largest stores in the country in about 12 months?
The trillion dollar companies are doing better than EVER.
No pandemic is going to put a halt to their plans. They’re investing more than ever before.
And every day City Hall keeps approving new projects. You all need to subscribe to Crain’s and Block Club, both of which report on new developments nearly every day, citywide.
“But the inventory has to decline to see price pressures.”
Yes. As I said “DOWNTOWN.”
The person was asking about the in-town market DOWNTOWN.
There is not pricing pressure there. Still some deals because inventory has to come down to see price pressures. I’ve been cribbing on the deals.
Everywhere else, inventory is near record lows. Prices are rising.
Be prepared to pay over list.
“Yes. As I said “DOWNTOWN.””
You say a lot of things and then make counter statements 10 minutes later
Is RN now Downtown?
Can you please define “Downtown” so that when you move the goalposts as you are wont to do, we can understand you’re shilling better
“That’s not the case downtown, where the tourists go.”
Tribune repported last week that downtown foot traffic is still down 40%. So what tourists are you talking about?
“New restaurants are opening every month in Chicago. Yes, NEW restaurants. During a pandemic.”
The net number of restaurants opening to closing still favor closures. Downtown restaurants will continue to struggle until workers are going back to the office. There will be a “summer bump” this year but it will still be materially down from two years ago.
“Once again, you are literally rooting AGAINST Chicago WP. You WANT it to fail (along with Illinois and America.)”
This is nationalist Trumpkin thinking. Weird how your pro-america spirit comes out now. We are talking about downtown it’s in for a struggle over the next few years. There are 5 water (sears) towers worth of vacant commercial property currently. The rest of the city in residential neighborhoods will probably ok and should recover much faster.
“The city is reawakening.”
Compared to last year. Sure. Compared to two years ago…. No. Pritzker is adding another phase today. Like I said between July 4 – Labor Day is when things should finally feel like they are truly getting back to normal but its likely that 2022 is when things fully go back to normal.
“Google just announced….”
Did you see the report though. It’s 10K people by 2025 around the country. 1,000 jobs currently split up between multiple cities including Chicago. So 300 – 350 jobs which is of course good news but it’s not ground breaking. Their real-estate plans in Fulton Market have been on hold since the start of Covid per the Tribune article.
“The economy will be humming by later this year and Chicago will be a big driver of that.”
I think you are still one year early on tourist traffic materially rebounding in Chicago.
Why are people going to travel this summer to Chicago if there are still restrictions when they can go to other areas of the country that have less or no restrictions?
What are they coming to Chicago for outside of visiting family or close friends? They are snagging one of the 8K seats at Wrigley or Guaranteed rate?
Will there be any new plays this year? What’s the capacity limits at the Taste which has no funding from the city (it was cut in the budget). Can Lolla make money if the city says only 25% – 50% capacity? Will Lori allow packed beaches for an Air & Water Show? Does an Air & Water show even happen?
People want to shop on the Mag Mile with the vacancy rates and closed shops?
When do capacity limits in restaurants get above 50%?
Again it will be better than last year but hummming and going crazy? Maybe next year. Maybe post-Labor Day Bears games will have 50% capacity… 60% capacity? Maybe Bulls/Hawks get to 50% but next season and 100% come winter/spring 2022?
“do you honestly think that Whole Foods, owned by Amazon, is NOT going to move into one of its largest stores in the country in about 12 months?”
Why would Amazon do this? This is not their style. They don’t have WalMart and Target sized stores. They don’t sell apparel and electronics at their stores. Further, the pandemic changed their plans. They are full speed on the cashier less concept. Their goal is to maximize speed and efficiency including maximizing every square foot in a store.
They are clearly pivoting from Whole Foods to Amazon grocery stores and have been targeting suburbs over the city for now.
https://www.yahoo.com/now/amazon-quietly-began-building-grocery-100024353.html
“Thanks for the sarcasm, Chichow.”
Dan–I read it as 2 separate things–the ‘no reno’ was with respect to the pretty cheap listing he linked, rather than the unit you are renting.
Of course, the listing sez “This estate sale is in original condition and sold “as is”.” so it was also an answered question.
“Is RN now Downtown?
river north is downtown.
“They are clearly pivoting from Whole Foods to Amazon grocery stores and have been targeting suburbs over the city for now.”
Just more available ‘grocery center’ sized RE in the burbs that would be easy to build out, have sufficient parking, and be that ~30-40k sf that they seem to be doing. All the TRU stores that haven’t already been re-used are good target sites.
I’m aware of at least 2 locations on the northside that are (at least very likely) Amazon Fresh sites trying to deal with zoning/aldermen/etc. They are close enough together that they may be alternates for each other, but also far enough that they could be planning on both. There are probably several more in various stages of site selection and entitlement process.
“Is RN now Downtown?”
Most Chicago-based analysis of “downtown” residential real estate use the N-S boundaries of North Ave to Cermak, and west to either Halsted or Ashland. A little smaller than the 312 covered area.
“Most Chicago-based analysis of “downtown” residential real estate use the N-S boundaries of North Ave to Cermak, and west to either Halsted or Ashland. A little smaller than the 312 covered area.”
So using the area definition and someones comments that
“There is not pricing pressure there. Still some deals because inventory has to come down to see price pressures. I’ve been cribbing on the deals.”
That seems to exclude some previously HAWT ™ neighborhoods. When did Fulton become un-hip & happening?
“I’m aware of at least 2 locations on the northside that are (at least very likely) Amazon Fresh sites trying to deal with zoning/aldermen/etc”
The intercept just broke a story today on how Amazon retaliated against Chicago based employees asking for PPE at the beginning of the pandemic with the NLRB siding with the employees. Good luck getting anything through an alderman or council vote now.
The one area rumored to be an amazon grocery store in Lincoln Square were the downzone was threatened is in Vazquez’s ward who is part of the DSA. The Alder were the retaliation happened against fulfillment employees is in Pilsen also a DSA member (Sigcho-Lopez) who recently staged a hunger strike for a month over the general iron move to the southeast side (not even his ward).
Amazon is going to have some huge issues in the city now. Maybe they can keep buying warehouses on the southwest and south sides that don’t need zoning approval but anything else good luck.
The Bridgeport fulfillment center that was recently approved in city hall had a lot of pushback from community groups. Daley’s nephew is the alder who obviously supported it. Some of the commissionaires in the mayors office were calling for a moratorium on fulfillment centers in the city.
https://theintercept.com/2021/03/17/amazon-covid-chicago-nlrb-strike/
I read Groove’s comment as relating to the contracted towers rather than WF specifically.
From my chats with retail/commercial property managers downtown they don’t expect much retail to come back but there is a lot of entertainment/restaurant development in the works (especially chains, national franchise type places) taking over failed restaurant leases and empty retail. Lots of money backing it nationally and in Chicago.
I’m defining entertainment as experiential like alcohol and bowling for example.
“Most Chicago-based analysis of “downtown” residential real estate use the N-S boundaries of North Ave to Cermak, and west to either Halsted or Ashland”
——————————
Everything else is Bucktown, per Sabrina.
“They are clearly pivoting from Whole Foods to Amazon grocery stores and have been targeting suburbs over the city for now.”
No, they aren’t WP. You are clueless about Amazon. They didn’t spend $10 billion acquiring hundreds of Whole Foods stores to “pivot” away from them.
They are going to “try” to launch Amazon Fresh. Try is the word. Remember Amazon Go? (are they still open???) Those were supposed to wipe out CVS/Walgreens and 7-11. Instead, it was a bust. They failed at that. No one cared about Amazon Go.
Whole Foods tried with 365 stores (before they were acquired) but that wasn’t going so well either. Those were a bust.
And now you have Amazon Fresh, trying the same thing. Will probably carry the 365 brand, much like the 365 stores were supposed to do and target Millennials, and now also GenZ, shoppers. Grocery space is very competitive. No real need for Amazon Fresh in most cities.
My take is that it will fail as well.
Why is Amazon opening up a massive Whole Foods (likely one of the largest in the country) in downtown Chicago?
Because they have an insanely small store that has been located about 2 blocks away for 20 years and they know if they build one with “experiences” including internal restaurants/bars and have it located just 3 blocks off the Mag Mile, that it’s likely to do quite well and be profitable for them.
There’s this huge food emporium, maybe you’ve heard of it, called “The Eataly” that has been crushing it for years in America and Italy. It’s pretty massive too.
“Compared to two years ago….”
Who is comparing anything to 2 years ago?
We are in FUCKING GLOBAL PANDEMIC WP.
My god.
And, yes, you ARE rooting against Chicago.
Never bet against America. You will fail.
In fact, go read this blog from a year ago, and the “theories” about the economic devastation to Chicago from COVID everyone espoused back then have already been proven wrong.
Your lame attempts to argue that with 6% or 7% GDP in Q4 of this year that Chicago won’t be humming is just wrong. Same with NY. LA. New Orleans. SF. Seattle. Detroit. Cleveland. Washington DC. Boston. Houston. And Philly.
” They didn’t spend $10 billion acquiring hundreds of Whole Foods stores to “pivot” away from them.”
$10Bn when their market cap is $1.5Tn wow i’m sure they are sweating. Jeff Bezos personally could have made the acquisition if he wanted. The goal of Whole Foods is to get into the grocery business and build the Amazon brand because they believe they can scale cashier-less and touchless technology that improve margins and lower prices leading to increased market share and thus more profits. Amazon is a logistics, tech and e-commerce company. They are not a grocery store.
Read their 10K their sales from physical stores have decreased each year since 2018 – $17.2Bn in 2018, $17.1Bn in 2019 and $16.2Bn last year. Whereas every other catagory (online sales, third party, subscription, and AWS has doubled over the same period). Doesn’t sound like Whole Foods is doing a great job…..
Further, from their 2020 proxy statement that was recently filed “Their detailed analysis has found that shopping online consistently generates less carbon than driving to a store, since a single delivery van trip can take approximately 100 roundtrip car journeys off the road on average. Our scientists developed a model to compare the carbon intensity of ordering Whole Foods Market groceries online versus
driving to your nearest Whole Foods Market store. The study found that, averaged across all basket sizes, online grocery deliveries generate 43% lower carbon emissions per item compared to shopping in stores. Smaller basket sizes generate even greater carbon savings.”
THEY WANT YOU AT THE STORE AS INFREQUENTLY AS POSSIBLE. Why? It’s more efficient because they are an e-commerce, logistics, tech company. Not a grocery store.
Hmmmm I wonder why they keep scaling up purchases of electric vans with Rivian. The last mile isn’t just about the fulfillment center it’s about delivering your groceries, your medicine, anything and everything. Guess what the last mile is about though – Logistics, technology, and e-commerce. WOW.
Let’s go to Whole Foods website how many are their in the entire US/Canada/UK there are only 350. Guess how many Amazon Fresh stores they are rolling out this year alone 28. So by the end of 2021 they will have 39 already. Yeah this is getting scaled quickly. Oh and if you add in Amazon-Go stores that’s another 26 so 65 in total between Go and Fresh
Amazon-Go just opened in 2018 to the public. They have had a 2 year run. There’s one in the building that I work at. I used it constantly. It ain’t going anywhere. Yes, it’s probably struggling today since they are located near office workers and not many people have been in the office the past year but its not going anywhere.
https://www.supermarketnews.com/retail-financial/report-amazon-has-28-more-amazon-fresh-stores-works
“Your lame attempts to argue that with 6% or 7% GDP in Q4 of this year that Chicago won’t be humming is just wrong.”
NY Fed Nowcast already has Q1 GDP at an 8.6% annualized rate. So your 6% – 7% annualized growth rate in Q4 is lower than what we are currently experiencing.
https://www.newyorkfed.org/research/policy/nowcast
Right now the optimists are hanging their hats on a quick “return to normal” once everyone is vaccinated.
The breakIng point for downtown real estate will be when large companies start announcing permanent work from home policies in a post Covid world, and the trickle down culture to mid-size and small employers who need to compete for talent.
“The breakIng point for downtown real estate will be when large companies start announcing permanent work from home policies in a post Covid world, and the trickle down culture to mid-size and small employers who need to compete for talent.”
This has already happened. Most will offer the hybrid type of schedule. Over 60% of employees polled want to go in 2 to 3 days a week.
Will there be changes in how everyone goes to work and more flexibility?
Yes.
Will cities have to adjust?
Of course.
But the doom and gloom is just misplaced. No one wants to sit at home as we’ve been doing the last year and never see their co-workers. Especially those new to their jobs/careers or those in creative industries.
WP- you cannot win this argument. The economy is going to boom in the second half of the year.
Give it up.
Go talk about economics somewhere else please. I’m tired of discussing your doom and gloom economic theories.
If you have something to contribute about Chicago housing, please do.
“Read their 10K their sales from physical stores have decreased each year since 2018 – $17.2Bn in 2018, $17.1Bn in 2019 and $16.2Bn last year.”
Correct WP. We agree on something.
Amazon sucks at operating physical retail stores. It has never done it successfully. And it hasn’t turned Whole Foods into a success since they bought it. It continues to be a low margin, money sucking business that they should never have bought. But wait- they thought it would be this big driver into Prime.
But it wasn’t.
Now they’re stuck with it.
NONE of their physical stores have been a success from Amazon Go, to Whole Foods, to their bookstores.
But Amazon makes so much from the cloud, who cares if they lose money on brick and mortar retail and dozens of other ventures?
Amazon Gos will slowly close and they’ll just never talk about them again. That’s how they roll when things fail.
By the way, by now, in 2021, Amazon was supposed to have hundreds of Amazon Gos.
Lol.
“Amazon sucks at operating physical retail stores. It has never done it successfully. And it hasn’t turned Whole Foods into a success since they bought it. It continues to be a low margin, money sucking business that they should never have bought.”
You cannot be this aloof. Re-read my comment to understand why Amazon bought Whole Foods. Further, they reason why they operate physical locations is to learn. Alot of their physical locations are effectively incubators for them.
The short term plan in buying Whole Foods was for the brand and the access to their food suppliers along with learning the grocery business. They are currently executing on the long term plan as Amazon thrives in disrupting large industry, low margin, predictable recurring businesses.
There has been next to no innovation in the grocery space since the rise of WalMart. We spend over $650Bn at grocery stores per year in the US. If Amazon can get 10% market share that’s $65Bn and puts them at par with Kroger’s market share (and that doesn’t include the Amazon-Go convenience stores).
Their technology will double operating profits at grocery stores compared to what Kroger, WalMart, Target currently generate guess what that means. They can lower prices even lower than WalMart and win more market share while maintaining higher margins. No one can compete. They can even lease out the technology if they want to (I don’t believe they plan to currently) and monetize all of the data that they are receiving from the stores.
Within 10 years Amazon-Go will be on every corner like a starbucks. They can franchise all of these locations like McDonalds sit back and collect royalties. They announced they would build 3,000 in the US just 3 years ago. This doesn’t even count Amazon Fresh which are now starting to pop-up.
US Shoppers wanted the product of true cashier-less shopping pre-pandemic per survey results. They want it even more now. It’s turned into a necessity.
Borrowing your quote “Get on board or get left behind.”
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/06/how-coronavirus-convinced-grocery-chains-to-experiment-with-new-tech-.html
“By the way, by now, in 2021, Amazon was supposed to have hundreds of Amazon Gos.”
There was this thing called the pandemic which slowed the rollout down. Survey from last month on Amazon-Go
“54% of consumers who visited an Amazon Go described their experience as “excellent,” and 35% thought it was “good.”
“Industry observers have said Amazon Go could become a major business for Amazon as it expands its physical retail footprint. An RBC Capital Markets analysis released in January 2019 estimated average annual sales of $1.5 million apiece for the then nine Amazon Go stores. Based on a September 2018 Bloomberg report saying Amazon may open up to 3,000 Go stores in the next several years, RBC’s estimate would translate into a $4.5 billion business for the Go banner.”
Predictable cash flow based on a simple business model which can become more profitable with the adoption of new technologies.
https://www.supermarketnews.com/retail-financial/amazon-go-draws-high-interest-us-shoppers
“If you have something to contribute about Chicago housing, please do.”
But you complain about my housing predictions too. Also, to be fair, you were the one that brought up Whole Foods so technically I only responded to the topic that you brought up which is fair game. Your quote:
“And just 2 blocks away there will be a massive new Whole Foods and they keep building massive towers.”
Now we are full circle.
“Also, to be fair, you were the one that brought up Whole Foods”
Yes. Whole Foods. Why are you posting about Amazon its horrible retail track record?
Enough.
“There was this thing called the pandemic which slowed the rollout down.”
Nope. Please educate yourself instead of posting links to “supermarket news.” At least post to someone who has actually reported on this like Bloomberg BusinessWeek.
Amazon Go was a disaster within the first 6 months. It NEVER lived up to any expectations and will likely now be shut down.
This was before the pandemic ever hit. Pandemic had nothing to do with it.
But they certainly aren’t going to go ahead with anything more with every single downtown in America supposedly doomed now. And America is doomed too so why would you ever open anything ever again?
But, again, Amazon has been a complete failure at physical retail. Amazon Fresh will be more of the same.
“Further, they reason why they operate physical locations is to learn. Alot of their physical locations are effectively incubators for them.”
You can’t be this stupid, can you WP?
Come on.
No one is buying a supermarket chain with hundreds of stores and margins of 1% to be “incubators” and to “learn.” What incompetence if they were.
You DO realize that they have those already outside of Seattle? Yes. That’s where they tested the Amazon Go technology for a while. They also inherited Whole Foods 365 stores, which were failing, when they bought the chain, if they wanted to “test” anything.
An “incubator”? Of what?
Other than the tech that Go uses, they haven’t done any innovation at any of the Whole Foods stores. And if they wanted access to supply chains, that has been a complete failure as they STILL don’t have product in their stores a year after the pandemic started because their supply chains are so incompetent. 2 months ago the Chicago Whole Foods still had restrictions on how many eggs and butter you could buy.
Come on!
They have completely failed the whole thing.
And anyone who thinks Amazon is some kind of innovative genius company in grocery retail needs to go back to school and get educated. Sorry. It’s been a disaster- even in pulling in Prime members.
But they’re in it now and I’m glad because they’ll spend to roll out that massive Whole Foods in River North which is going to be an awesome store akin to the one at North/Clybourn. (fingers crossed)
Sabrina –
Any comment or do you prefer to shill?
““Most Chicago-based analysis of “downtown” residential real estate use the N-S boundaries of North Ave to Cermak, and west to either Halsted or Ashland. A little smaller than the 312 covered area.”
So using the area definition and someones comments that
“There is not pricing pressure there. Still some deals because inventory has to come down to see price pressures. I’ve been cribbing on the deals.”
That seems to exclude some previously HAWT ™ neighborhoods. When did Fulton become un-hip & happening?”
“At least post to someone who has actually reported on this like Bloomberg”
Here’s your bloomberg article from last week.
“Go is kind of nichey—a cool experience, but more experimental than anything,” says a former senior employee involved with Amazon’s grocery efforts, who requested anonymity for fear of violating confidentiality agreements. “Fresh stores are more of an all-in strategy for Amazon. A very strategic, long-term play.”
“The prices, at least so far, are low. A basket of 30 commonly purchased grocery items in one of Amazon’s Chicago-area stores last month undercut Jewel-Osco, an Albertsons Cos. Inc.-owned mainline grocer, by as much as 20% when including items on sale, and is competitive with Aldi and Walmart.”
American’s are suckers for cheap and convenient which is compounded exponentially if the quality is good. And as the quoted senior employee said they are experimenting. It’s a long term play.
To borrow your nationalist Trumpian thinking If you bet against Amazon you are betting against America and Chicago. It’s only the largest publicly traded company in the world born and raised in America.
https://www.yahoo.com/now/amazon-quietly-began-building-grocery-100024353.html
“I read Groove’s comment as relating to the contracted towers rather than WF specifically. ”
Ding, Ding, Ding. Thank you FG for getting that right.
Stuff getting built now and near future have already been approved and contracts signed before the ‘rona. Those contracts will cost more to break than to just build. All the aldermen bribery and cousin contractors got their payouts, of which that money is long gone and lost and will need to be done again if you cancel and try again in 10 years.
even the ever changing build over the metra by one museum park has so much sunk costs, will be built (if us tax payers cover the infrastructure costs)
Only a few contracts/plans have been broken. Take the Spire, I can’t off hand remember the sunk costs on pulling out, crains did a calc i think and it was almost as much as just building the dang thing.
‘[amazon go]’
It was a beta test for the technology. They want to use it in the 40k sf Fresh stores:
https://www.supermarketnews.com/technology/amazon-fresh-store-makes-its-uk-debut-cashierless-shopping
Do try to keep up.
“Please educate yourself instead of posting links to “supermarket news.” At least post to someone who has actually reported on this like Bloomberg BusinessWeek.”
Yeah, trade publications know fuck all about their industries, amirite?
Maybe find a trend story from the NYT.
“Yeah, trade publications know fuck all about their industries, amirite?”
Commence Goalpost Moving in T minus 10 Seconds…
“The breakIng point for downtown real estate will be when large companies start announcing permanent work from home policies in a post Covid world, and the trickle down culture to mid-size and small employers who need to compete for talent.”
I don’t see that trend. Majority of companies have discovered remote work, don’t work. They are shifting to wanting everyone back into the office. Many are even shu-shuing the hybrid model.
Issue though is schools. Companies know that schools are not full time and currently are accepting of the hybrid work model. When schools go full time and vaccine roll out ‘done’. You will see the majority of companies requiring folks back to the office full time.
Anecdotal: I know 3 Chicago manufacturing companies that got the vaccine for the employees and is pushing for everyone to come back in full time after the second shot.
Pool in Hancock is open, so is gym.
Prices at store are insane, but you pay for the convenience. I don’t do any major shopping trips there, and I decided not to buy the $14 jar of almond butter!
WP,
I spent the last five years defending Chicago’s reputation against Trump and his online goons.
Maybe you didn’t notice. I want Chicago and America to succeed, whoever’s in office. When I see a president and his supporters constantly dragging America down, I speak out. This goes beyond Chicago. When Trump was asked to condemn the Russian government’s killing of journalists, he replied, ““I think our country does plenty of killing also.”
That’s your Trump patriotism and defense of America, in a nutshell.
“Ding, Ding, Ding. Thank you FG for getting that right.”
LOL you’re welcome, don’t know why that was so hard (and it led to a hilarious thread). Agreed on that, once construction is a go and contracted, it ain’t stopping.
Jewel, Mariano’s and some big stores (like Meijer) are not bargain priced despite the reputation of some of them – their bargain reputations, especially Meijer, are false. Luckily we have a lot of cheaper, local options (looking at you, Pete’s, Caputo’s, et al) – one of the biggest reasons I stay in Chicago – crap grocery stores elsewhere like Hy-Vee or Schnuck’s (neither cheap and both meh produce). Sometimes trade publications are little more than advertorials based on press releases – not saying that’s the case w/ Supermarket News, but they aren’t always accurate, they often get canned stories, but are still followed by the trades for general info. I know the Amazon stores have been followed closely by the general industry and they are copying some aspects – I think equipment and aesthetic especially, which they spent a lot of effort and money on.
I’m seeing the same anecdotal push back to the office among friends and my own situation – even at companies with long-standing general wfh policies.
“Pool in Hancock is open, so is gym.
Prices at store are insane, but you pay for the convenience. I don’t do any major shopping trips there, and I decided not to buy the $14 jar of almond butter!”
We looked at the Hancock long time ago, the cool thing about the grocery store I was told by a resident when were looking is, they will stock those odd items you would like if you buy them regularly. Even if its only you buying them.
Now the price they will charge for that item will always pack a convenience fee.
Also still haven’t found a large residential building with such an efficient elevator system. 340OTP, try getting to your unit in time if you have peepee emergency. Best to have building maintenance clean it up and drop off at the dry cleaners.
“looking at you, Pete’s, Caputo’s, et al”
We got a HMart by us on the NW side. f’ing love that place. Also love all the little euro produce shops around too. Who give a flying…. about a over priced BezoFoods when you have great places like we do.
“I’m seeing the same anecdotal push back to the office among friends and my own situation – even at companies with long-standing general wfh policies”
I am curious to see this summer how all of it plays out, if there are push backs from employees?
Yeah, there are advantages to living in a big metro area and availability of stuff like quality produce is one of them. It will be interesting to see if any of the locals get snapped up by the big chains or if they start to expand, like Patel Brothers has, nationally (or at least regionally). There are a lot of small towns across Illinois – and the nation – that could use good grocery stores in a smaller format.
I know some of my colleagues, especially those with long commutes, are going to be pushing for more wfh time, if not fully remote. Some of my friends, even in non-client or public facing professions, have been working from the office after an initial wfh period (in this case, they needed be in their facility to do anything beyond calls and some admin). I’ve heard that some companies are permanently wfh – probably due to saving on office space.
There are too many type-a execs who wear working 90+hrs/wk in the office as a badge of honor. Its a convenient excuse not to see their families. I have no doubt that the past year has been brutal for these people.
For those of us that actually like our spouses and children, this year has been fantastic. I have zero desire to give up the extra time I’ve had with my family during lunch, former commute hours, and randomly throughout the day.
Yeah, Groove, elevators here are amazingly good. Never have to wait. The express to 44 are so fast my ears pop every time.
And I’m on 50, so if I want to get some exercise I can climb the stairs from 44. I actually used to do the “Hustle Up the Hancock” climb every year, and now I can use those same stairs for exercise. I often go from 50 to 92, take the elevator back down to 45, and go up the stairs again. Great way to break a sweat. I’m training for the marathon and this is nice cross-training work.
“I’ve heard that some companies are permanently wfh – probably due to saving on office space.”
There are obviously a lot of variables as to how and when companies and firms will go back to the office and what sort of wfh policies they’ll retain (depends on the particular metro area, industry/field, stage of each person’s career, etc.). But I also think that a particular company or firm’s attitude about the whole thing is going to be driven in large part by what their long term leasing situation is. If you’re a big professional services firm that celebrated inking a 10 or 20 year lease in a hot new building just a couple of years ago, then the attitude is “we are eager to get every single person back in the office five days a week the moment that it’s permitted and advisable to do so, because *culture* and mentoring and best serving our clients” and whatever (to which there’s arguably some validity). If such a firm’s lease is up soon, it’s more “we’re coming out of this stronger and more fine-tuned to serve our clients and we’ve invested in practices and tech that enable our professionals to do so from anywhere at anytime, and following our right-sizing we’ll still have a fancy conference floor downtown too.”
It’s interesting seeing the major commercial broker firms and the like post content on LinkedIn and get articles run in the industry press indicating some sort of universal urgency among companies and firms to “get back.” If I were more conspiracy-minded, I could almost see the major building owners collaborating with some of the leading companies and firms, say, giving THEM killer deals to re-up on all of their pre-Covid square footage and to hype their returns to the office (media coverage of “we’re back!” events at the office, etc.), in the hopes of creating a bandwagon effect that other companies and firms would feel obligated to follow.
Who knows. All I know is that I’ve had a busy enough work week here in my kid’s bedroom that on both Monday/Tuesday and yesterday/today I never even got out of my “evening sweatpants.” What would have been gained (for me or the client) if I had been pressured, let alone required, to spend around 10 hours commuting this week? Time to go take my second shower of the week.
I have been WFH for years, and I love it; but I have to say most of my friends/family/acquaintances are somewhat eager to get back into the office. Most say they’d like to continue WFH 1 or 2 days per week, but almost no one wants 100% WFH.
I work for a smallish (30 odd total employees) company. I know a lot of people like the social aspect of the office and after work stuff – they really miss it, we are a good group. I think we’ve had some teething trouble with wfh and now that we are calling people back from furloughs, we may be hiring new people, which will be hard to “onboard” remotely if too many of us are not in the office. I think if we had organized the initial shift to home a bit better rather than, OK, take everything home and keep working from there and had better scheduling systems it would work better. There are some things that still have to be done with the office due to physical items that have to be compiled and shipped – Fedex/Kinko’s is a disaster for shipping and such compared to in-house shipping, but that’s not a regular need. The time savings on not commuting (more sleep, free time after work, etc) is well worth it.
The “majority” of Hancock units aren’t in horrible shape, if my experience means anything. I’ve been in at least 20 over the years, and most were in better than original shape. Even the studios. Certainly the larger units. Not all were in great shape, mind you, but most had been renovated at some point in the last 50 years.
It must be easy enough to open the formerly closed kitchens, because I’d say 75% of the units I’ve seen featured open kitchens. I’ve recently seen some very nice units in the building, some with luxurious modern baths.
@ Dan #2
I’m glad you rent at the hancock. My reference to avocado green was to the un refurbished units. I’ve lived in both.
The air and water show is great from 44 and also from the pool. If I was still there, I would use the pool a lot.
No offense taken, Chichow. I just wanted to make sure you knew my unit had been updated. The original ones are pretty horrid.
I had been in the original ones and when i mentioned avocado green I was referring to some of the appliance colors like refrigerators from the 70s.
Actually I didn’t think that living in an original unit was bad as long as they kept it in good condition like replace the carpet etc.
In the refurbished unit that I was in, we also went with an artificial floor pergo.
mind you inquiring and replying on what current monthly parking charges are? not sure if it is different depending on which garage section you park in. thanks.
can’t edit
no need to look up. I did an anon(tfo) and found a listing
” Rental parking is available for $375 to park in the general area $410 to have a reserved parking ”
cheers
“When I see a president and his supporters constantly dragging America down, I speak out”
I do not support him. Never voted for him. Never will. So i’m not sure who you are referring to in “his supporters dragging America down”.
“When Trump was asked to condemn the Russian government’s killing of journalists, he replied, ““I think our country does plenty of killing also.””
Let’s examine your issues with this statement. Is it the messenger or the message? Because the message is 100% correct but the wrong messenger being Trump and his affinity for idolizing dictators and autocrats. The messenger however being a U.S. President regardless of which U.S. President is a powerful statement that needs to be thoroughly understood and examined as to why someone in that position would say or think that.
If you are upset with the failure to condemn Russia’s killing of journalists are you just as upset at Biden doing nothing on Khashoggi? Or is it about Trump and Russia? If it is Russia are you just as upset at Biden over his handling of Putin poisoning Navalny? How about Obama’s handling of Putin assassinating Boris Nemtsov?
How bought Biden’s handling of Glenn Greenwald who was charged by the Brazilian government 2 days after becoming President for breaking the corruption stories of the current government?
Is your issue with the quote “I think our country does plenty of killing also.”
Let’s examine this. How many Iraqi civilians were killed, waterboarded, illegibly detained without trial under false pretense by the Bush war in Iraq? Under Obama, how many innocent people were droned.
Further, Obama was the first (and only I believe) U.S. President to drone an American citizen on foreign soil. No arrest, no trial, no “justice”; unless you support U.S. President’s having unilateral authority to be judge/jury/executioner of U.S. citizens on foreign soil.
Further, how many coups have started in South America and the Middle East by U.S. foreign policy intervention in which unintended consequences included rounding up jailing and/or killing journalists and political dissidents?
The Arab Spring was not that long ago go look at what happened to journalists in Egypt and the U.S. role their.
Today, the border crises which has been an annual replay every late winter/early spring for the last how many years. Why does this happen? For as much as someone wants to blame hurricanes in Honduras remember what the Obama State Department led by Hillary Clinton did to that country.
“Violence against the LGBT community has also escalated since the coup. Since 2009, 229 LGBT people have been murdered – an average of 30 every year, according to the NGO Cattrachas. This compares to an average of two murders a year between 1994 and 2008.
The country’s economy has tanked. Immediately after the coup, a five-month curfew imposed by the new government cost the economy $50m a day. Wages dropped, subsidies were shelved and the public education and social security systems gutted.
Meanwhile, organised crime – which was already well-established – flexed its muscles, infiltrating all corners of the country’s weak institutions. Death squads reappeared, and the murder rate surged.
By 2010, Honduras had become the world’s most violent country outside an official war zone, a position it held until 2014. By 2012, 80% of cocaine-smuggling flights bound for the US from South America were estimated to pass through Honduras.
Honduras is not a country which has historically enjoyed strong institutions, but Clinton’s critics say if she had supported the country’s democratically elected leader, and pushed hard for his return to power, it would not be confronting the crisis of institutionality it does today.”
If your biggest quibble with the Trump years is how he did not speak out against the killing of journalists dude don’t be a partisan hack; wake up and review our foreign policy decisions since at least 9/11. They have been horrible for human rights and stability across the globe.
So if/when a U.S. President/Government Official or any American says “I think our country does plenty of killing also” that statement is 100% correct.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/31/hillary-clinton-honduras-violence-manuel-zelaya-berta-caceres
“It’s interesting seeing the major commercial broker firms and the like post content on LinkedIn and get articles run in the industry press indicating some sort of universal urgency among companies and firms to “get back.” If I were more conspiracy-minded, I could almost see the major building owners collaborating with some of the leading companies and firms,”
You left out one key group in this statement and that’s politicians. Yes, politicians might take to the public lectern saying social distance, stay home, etc. at the end of the day they need the industry leaders to get their employees back into the office in order to balance budgets and continue to make their constituents happy in the medium/long term.
If one year from now the headline in Chicago or New York reads “CTA (MTA) capacity down 20% or 30% still from pre-covid” how do you think (i) downtown (midtown) is doing, (ii) city and agency budget is doing, (iii) employees working for the government backed CTA (MTA) and their unions are going to be feeling?
A politician isn’t (shouldn’t) be able to cry poor at this point. Do you want to be the mayor saying we have to cut CTA capacity or governor cutting MTA capacity OR we need higher property taxes a special levy (higher gas, uber, divy, sales tax), etc. to avoid cuts?
The political class is talking weekly or monthly to all of these industries their political futures are toast without a “return to normal”.
The conspiracy mind in me goes these papers are being pushed by the brokers and CEO’s of certain industries to get people back into the office in exchange for the political class not clamping down on making it harder to do business in that city/state. It’s a win-win for both.
“I don’t see that trend. Majority of companies have discovered remote work, don’t work. They are shifting to wanting everyone back into the office. Many are even shu-shuing the hybrid model.”
There’s alot to unpack and it will take time. The WFH model will change and be tweaked with over the coming decade in every industry and every company in every division. One key reason is demographics.
Millenials and Gen-Z know how to communicate through their phones and technology like no other generation BUT need to break into their respective industries by impressing boomers and older Gen-X managers/leaders. The Boomers/Gen-X leaders are “old-school” from a technology communication standpoint.
In 10 years the workforce is going to be dominated by younger Gen-X/Millenials/Gen-Z generations who grew up in the age of technology and with technology. Who went through the WFH pandemic phase as the low-level employee. They will now not be the low level employee anymore but the change-agents for their companies and industry as they are now in leadership positions. They will solve the problem since they lived through the problem at the ground floor and know what the solutions are.
The solution was clearly never going to be “WFH” forever unless you are in a job with no mobility and don’t have face-to-face interaction with other employees in your role. Thus the companies announcing WFH forever are largely tech industry whose employees are largely tech coders and engineers. This can be expanded to back-office staff in accounting, finance, compliance, payments, cyber-security, etc. In the 90’s some or alot of these positions were outsourced to India or low cost centers. Why can’t you now outsource these roles throughout the country through WFH? Have them come into the main office for 6 weeks to get trained/onboarded and send them on their way (which is the same as what the outsourcers did anyway).
Further, instead of hiring 50 full time employees that came into the office 5 days a week for 40 – 50 hours of work why not hire 100 – 150 part-time employees throughout the country who WFH doing these roles for 20 hours a week? The headlines of “woman dropping out of the workforce” that we see. Are they really dropping out because they can’t work any hours or is it they can’t work 40 – 50 hours + teach/raise little Jill/Johnnie. Could they work 20 hours a week? That could be a big cost saving opportunity for companies and keep more woman attached to the labor force.
The current context however in present day is millions do not want to work from home 5 days a week, 8 – 10+ hours a day forever or even for months/years at a time. Alot of these same people hated their commute 5 days a week whether it was a time suck, they had other pressing things going on in their life that had to put off to the weekend, or are in roles where they don’t communicate with people at work anyway. So when these people are finally “back in the office” those same issues will crop back up as they weren’t solved.
They will be fine with it for a couple months at first but then it will be Friday over the summer or the Tuesday after a Bears Monday Night Football game, or the Monday after getting home late the night before from the weekend getaway, etc. They will want to work from home that next day and get the extra hour or two of sleep or run the errands in the morning that were put off instead of commuting. So the hybrid model will be the norm in a couple years. It will look different all over.
Think of Chicago, who wanted to commute in February when it was 0 degrees for 2 weeks straight? wouldn’t you have rather WFH those two weeks in pre-pandemic times? You didn’t have the option then like many don’t have the option of going into the office if they want to.
Once the pandemic subsides and we are “back to normal” people will want a balance at certain times throughout the year of WFH and being in the office.
I remember talking to my millennial co-workers about the cubs winning the world series and how they partied until 2 AM but had to be in the office for a presentation or meeting or just expected with no excuses by 8 AM the next day. Why can’t you just do it by zoom at home and get the extra hour of sleep now? It’s only one day.
“When Trump was asked to condemn the Russian government’s killing of journalists,”
Also, I forgot to bring up Edward Snowden and Julian Assange. Are you fine with how Obama and the US Government handled them? One a US citizen (no a journalist) but the largest whistleblower in US security state history can never come back to his own country and lives in exile out of fear of his own government.
The other Julian Assange who I consider a journalist (others don’t) not an American citizen can never come to the US and also lives in exile for exposing our corrupt government in which our government consistently threatened him and his life.
Pot meet kettle my friend.
““When Trump was asked to condemn the Russian government’s killing of journalists,”
Here’s Obama’s legacy on press freedom in the middle east during the Arab Spring which the US State Department led by Clinton sponsored coup after coup…..
“In early February 2011, Alaa Abdelfattah was in Egypt’s Tahrir Square, documenting and participating in the nascent pro-democracy uprising that would topple the government and transform the country and the region. Today, he is in prison on anti-state and false news charges, which his family believes are partly retaliatory for his work. Abdelfattah is one of 27 journalists in Egyptian prison as of late 2020, a figure that marks the country as one of the world’s worst jailers of journalists, according to CPJ’s most recent prison census.”
“As of December 2020, there are 89 journalists jailed in 10 countries in the Middle East and North Africa, the highest number for the region since CPJ began counting in 1992. Most journalists are held on anti-state and false news charges; many are held without charge. In Egypt, most imprisoned journalists are charged but not sentenced, detained for months or years awaiting trial.”
“In 2012, the year after the initial Egyptian uprising, CPJ did not count a single journalist in prison there. Under the government of Abdel Fateh el-Sisi – who rose to power in a 2013 coup and was elected the year after – Egypt has put numerous journalists behind bars. In Saudi Arabia, there were no journalists imprisoned in 2011; the country arrested journalists in 2012 following pro-reform protests, and as of late 2020 there were at least 24 journalists held in Saudi prisons.”
“Since the Arab Spring, conflicts across the region have heightened the danger of reporting, resulting in a steep increase in the number of journalists killed. According to CPJ’s research, since 2011, 154 journalists have been killed in crossfire or while reporting on dangerous assignments in Yemen, Syria, and Iraq. That figure accounts for more than half of the total number of journalists killed worldwide (258) in the same two scenarios during the same period. ”
“Of the three countries, Syria is by far the deadliest, a relatively new title. Between 1992 and 2010, CPJ did not record a single journalist killed in the country; in the past decade Syria has counted 110 crossfire and dangerous assignment deaths. Most of those deaths are due to airstrikes and bombings by military forces, including the Syrian Army and its allies and Turkey.”
You can’t say with a straight face that Trump was worse than his most recent predecessors when it came to protecting the press and press freedom
https://cpj.org/2021/01/ten-years-after-arab-spring-media-threats-press-freedom-trends/
Groove,
I don’t park in the building but I believe it’s pretty high, like $375 a month. That’s why I don’t park there!
“When I see a president and his supporters constantly dragging America down, I speak out”
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kFEK0Sbq4o8
“In 10 years the workforce is going to be dominated by younger Gen-X/Millenials/Gen-Z generations who grew up in the age of technology and with technology.”
This is incorrect with regards to “young GenXers” and also with “old” Millennials.
There’s a distinct difference between those who went through high school WITH a smart phone, and those who did not.
Youngest GenXers didn’t even have the Internet in high school. Oldest Millennials had Internet, but no social media and no smart phone.
My kids are the youngest Millennials. They don’t relate at all to the oldest or GenX.
Also, it is my kids who WANT to go back to their offices as quickly as possible. They are bored and miss the human interaction with their work colleagues. They miss leaving work early on a Friday afternoon and going down to the City Winery at the River Walk. They miss going with their work colleagues to a day game, with the summer interns, at Wrigley Field or the Cell.
They are at the beginning of their careers where they want to move up the ladder and share ideas, in person.
And, yeah, they liked getting pizza delivered to the office for those work lunches.
They can’t wait to go back.
It’s only old people who moved to the suburbs who had the grueling 2 hour a day commute on Metra from Aurora or St. Charles or Lake Forest who is glad to be working at home.
Many people will chose the hybrid model as McDonald’s allowed its employees to do years ago when it built its new HQ. It always expected at least 25% of the workers to be working at home on any given day. Hence, no assigned desk.
Most went into work 3 days a week. Mostly for meetings.
More companies will adopt this and will plan their office space, and the design of their offices, accordingly.
“For those of us that actually like our spouses and children, this year has been fantastic. I have zero desire to give up the extra time I’ve had with my family during lunch, former commute hours, and randomly throughout the day.”
Like I said, there’s a big generational difference between those who actually use their jobs at the office to socialize, and have friends they hang out with there, versus the older employees who are married and have children and all the responsibilities associated with that.
Younger people WANT to go back into the office. Older do not. The older ones have been grinding away on the commute etc. for 20+ years. The last year has been a revelation that they were wasting a lot of their lives on the train or in their cars every day.
“Anecdotal: I know 3 Chicago manufacturing companies that got the vaccine for the employees and is pushing for everyone to come back in full time after the second shot.”
Are their offices downtown Groove?
Most manufacturing was essential and has been operating throughout this pandemic. They already have experience with their employees getting the virus, everyone wearing masks at work, having everyone get tested if someone in the facility gets it, how to handle the kitchen and bathrooms etc.
They are not as “afraid” of it as the white collar companies that went WFH a year ago and no one at their company has gotten the virus WHILE at work. They’ve already been dealing with it for a year.
“It was a beta test for the technology. They want to use it in the 40k sf Fresh stores:”
Do try to keep up anon(tfo). Amazon Go was NEVER a “beta test” for the technology because they didn’t yet own Whole Foods when they started testing it and planning those stores. They already did the testing IN the actual beta test store and figured out it worked.
The plan was to roll out at least 3,000 Amazon Go stores. Instead, here they are with less stores than Shake Shack rolls out in a single year.
So, no, it wasn’t a “test.” It failed as a concept.
And they will shut them all down to focus on other things, like this Fresh concept.
What Amazon didn’t stop to actually ask itself was “does anyone NEED another convenience store?” There’s nothing pretty about it. It has no beauty. The food was subpar.
So it puts them into locations where it’s going up against the best in the downtown lunch crowd business and up against national chains where people have shown they actually WANT to eat like Sweetgreens, McDonald’s and Panda Express.
Bezos bet that “fast” would create sales. But he forgot that people actually want to eat something delicious that they like. Who wants to settle for some crappy pre-made sandwich and a bag of chips when you can get Sweetgreens or even Potbelly?
THAT is why it failed. Once the novelty of the “new” technology wore off, no one actually liked the food that was sold there. No one needed another convenience store. Not enough consumers cared about the “speed” of it all in the end.
Same thing will happen if they launch the technology in a bigger supermarket. Those who don’t have prime will ignore the stores and shop somewhere else. Others will go if the quality is similar to their competitors, right?
Technology isn’t the end all, be all of the human experience.
“To borrow your nationalist Trumpian thinking If you bet against Amazon you are betting against America and Chicago. It’s only the largest publicly traded company in the world born and raised in America.”
Okay- sorry WP but you just blew ANY credibility with this statement.
I guess Apple and Microsoft weren’t “born and raised in America”?
And that Facebook thing? Where did it come from?
Come on.
I never said I was betting against Amazon. You kidding? They started the cloud business and it’s AWS that allows them to lose billions a year on their stupid brick and mortar business that they cannot run successfully. When you’re a conglomerate, all you need is one division like AWS with its high margins to create enough cash flow to fund everything else.
They are great at running an online Marketplace, as well. No one has their distribution capabilities globally. It’s spectacular.
But the online Marketplace isn’t brick and mortar. It’s not running a supermarket where the bananas go bad before someone buys them.
They continue to run out of food items in their Chicago Whole Foods stores because they cannot even figure out the supply chain when we are over a year into the pandemic. Jewel, Marianos, Trader Joe’s stopped having supply chain issues 10 months ago.
So, yeah, Amazon is going to fail at running Whole Foods and its Fresh stores.
Grocery is a low margin business. Who wants to be a “winner” in that?
“ Grocery is a low margin business. Who wants to be a “winner” in that?”
Why did Walmart & Target Enter this space and why they busting ass to win?
Just another example of you not knowing wtf you’re talking about
“ So, yeah, Amazon is going to fail at running Whole Foods and its Fresh stores.”
How many MM sf of distribution (cross dock, DC, wagon wheel, etc) is Amazon adding in the Chicago market place? Where are they at w/ automation in comparison to their competitors?
Honestly you should stick to stupid takes relative to Chicago residential RE.
“Younger people WANT to go back into the office. Older do not. The older ones have been grinding away on the commute etc. for 20+ years.”
I’m a Xennial. I’m older than Zuck, but under 40.
“Youngest GenXers didn’t even have the Internet in high school.”
So there was no internet in 1995 (ie, freshman year for the youngest X’ers). Huh!
Wish I were young/old enough to remember that time!
“Why did Walmart & Target Enter this space and why they busting ass to win?”
It got people into the store to buy other high margin items.
“Are their offices downtown Groove?”
Yes Ma’am one of them has the HQ in downtown. The other has HQ in another city. The third is all one building MFG and Offices.
“There are too many type-a execs who wear working 90+hrs/wk in the office as a badge of honor. Its a convenient excuse not to see their families. I have no doubt that the past year has been brutal for these people”
Fred, you know what i didn’t think of that. But your are right those folk i bet traveled to other sates just to get the vaccine to get back into the office. The 2 divorce lawyers buddies i know surprisingly didn’t see a uptick in business that i called last June. Good to see i was wrong.
“Time to go take my second shower of the week.”
Please, oh please tell me this in jest. Annony i may never be able to think of you the same again. At least tell my your monthly budget of wet wipes quadrupled?
“It must be easy enough to open the formerly closed kitchens, because I’d say 75% of the units I’ve seen featured open kitchens”
I do wonder DanNumberTwo (not a great screen name for folks with the sense of humor of a 6 year old). I always thought that any remodeling in the Hancock required asbestos testing and abatement. Which added a bunch of extra costs. Maybe it is only in certain know spots, exterior walls or maybe just HVAC areas? I am curious.
“Why did Walmart & Target Enter this space and why they busting ass to win?”
Simple Johnny, phrase ‘Loss leader’
“The other Julian Assange who I consider a journalist (others don’t) not an American citizen can never come to the US and also lives in exile for exposing our corrupt government in which our government consistently threatened him and his life. ”
————————————-
Assange never exposed corruption. He didn’t even expose state secrets. What he did do was knowingly publish confidential/sem-secret US military records showing the brutality of war.
Then he used the fact that the US wanted his butt to thwart a Swedish criminal investigation into whether he raped women.
No whistle blowing there.
Snowden, on the other hand, was a whistleblower.
“It got people into the store to buy other high margin items.”
And of course Amazon would want to be a single POS /s
“So there was no internet in 1995 (ie, freshman year for the youngest X’ers). Huh!”
No one went to school and used the internet. You had a DOS account and got these wacky e-mails on it for a few years until Yahoo finally came up with a decent e-mail account. It was awful.
Those kids were NOT growing up with technology, by any means. Same with old Millennials.
They didn’t even have cellphones. They had pagers. Completely different generational experiences.
“How many MM sf of distribution (cross dock, DC, wagon wheel, etc) is Amazon adding in the Chicago market place?”
Um…who cares?
It just means I’ll be able to get my hand weights faster. Has nothing to do with Whole Foods or whether or not they can get the same store sales in the green there (probably not because they’re running them so horribly with product out of stock a year into the pandemic.)
Just because you can deliver things, doesn’t mean you can run brick and mortar. They are two different things.
Amazon has never succeeded at brick and mortar. And likely never will.
But who cares?
The Marketplace is what they are good at.
“ Those kids were NOT growing up with technology, by any means. Same with old Millennials.”
Autocad? Being able to run programs on a PC Vs mainframe? OBD?
“Youngest GenXers didn’t even have the Internet in high school.” Vs “ Completely different generational experiences.”
We call this moving the goalposts
“Youngest GenXers didn’t even have the Internet in high school.” Vs “ Completely different generational experiences.”
“We call this moving the goalposts”
Nope. They didn’t have Internet in high school. They are lucky they even had a computer at home and maybe it connected to something but it wasn’t the Internet as we know it now. That came later.
You know this is true JohnnyU. Just stop now before you embarrass yourself further. There’s a big difference for the kids before 2007 and after 2007. It’s night and day. They will tell you it themselves.
Again GenX was on the forefront of tech, we wern’t luddites.
I was using Autocad by 90 or 91
Had a cell phone by 96
Was using GPS by 96
Are these systems better today yes, but don’t pretend that they wern’t around
“Again GenX was on the forefront of tech, we wern’t luddites.”
Fred’s argument was that the youngest GenX, Millennials and GenZ “grew up” with technology so that’s why they will all be satisfied staying at home for the rest of their lives.
But that’s not true. Youngest GenX didn’t grow up with today’s technology. Neither did older Millennials.
I never said there wasn’t technology, JohnnyU. Somehow, Bill Gates was on a computer at his science lab and he’s a Baby Boomer.
No one had a cellphone in school in 1996. There were car “cellphones” that you plugged in and called people. Yes. Texting didn’t even happen until the 2000s.
Again, I’m talking about generational differences. It’s all pre-iPhone and post-iPhone and the iPhone wasn’t until 2007. And then social media exploded onto the scene just after that.
These kids ARE living with technology in a way that GenX has no clue about.
Don’t you have kids or grandkids? Can’t you see the difference with your own eyes?
Again, they will tell you. Even older Millennials will tell you they feel more like GenX generation simply because they didn’t have the technology in school.
Ha ha
Here’s a funny look back at it all.
I guess you could text if you had a Nokia in 1998. Lol
https://parade.com/5457/iraphael/the-evolution-of-the-cell-phone/
By the way, if you have one of these older cell phones, they’re worth a lot of money now! Check on eBay before you donate one to the electronics recycling center.
The youngest GenX’ers didn’t grow up with technology in the current sense.
Some current technology may have existed then, but it certainly wasn’t mainstream. Old Millennials like myself may have had a cell phone in high school, but certainly not everyone did. All my friends had internet at home, but some people still had dialup and it was mostly used for trying to dodge porn in search engines, mapquest’ing directions, and chatting on AOL Instant Messenger. Social networks started popping up around the time I graduated college, but weren’t anything like they are now. Smart phones came out after I graduated college.
As a late 30-something with young kids, I have no desire to work in a office again in the foreseeable future.
“I guess you could text if you had a Nokia in 1998. Lol
Had the Motorola Flip phone
“Fred’s argument was that the youngest GenX, Millennials and GenZ “grew up” with technology so that’s why they will all be satisfied staying at home for the rest of their lives.”
Fred’s correct
“But that’s not true. Youngest GenX didn’t grow up with today’s technology. Neither did older Millennials.”
What communication tool is in place today that GenX cant use? I guess maybe you’re still using AOL on your 56k modem?
“No one had a cellphone in school in 1996. There were car “cellphones” that you plugged in and called people. Yes. Texting didn’t even happen until the 2000s.”
Meaningless and the Motorola flip phones were in use. Why does it matter if one had a phone in highschool?
“Again, I’m talking about generational differences. It’s all pre-iPhone and post-iPhone and the iPhone wasn’t until 2007. And then social media exploded onto the scene just after that.”
You forgot the Crackberry & Palm Pilots.
“These kids ARE living with technology in a way that GenX has no clue about.
Don’t you have kids or grandkids? Can’t you see the difference with your own eyes?”
You may not have a clue. Maybe you could talk to your kids. Though I will say there is a different dynamic with parents that used devices as a digital pacifier Vs those that communicated directly with their kids. You must be in the first camp
““Again, I’m talking about generational differences. It’s all pre-iPhone and post-iPhone and the iPhone wasn’t until 2007. And then social media exploded onto the scene just after that.”
One other point
I dont see the importance of “Social Media” for the employer/employees dynamic, unless its directly related to their job. I’m not sure how Tik Tok is improving Bob from accounting work product
But I’m just a GENXer, Millennials technology frightens and confuses me
A lot of people still don’t have (or have access to) that technology. Anecdotal obviously, but one of my friends workplaces (in this case a professional institution) had to bring back people quicker than expected since a lot of the employee’s didn’t have access to computers or reliable internet at home, just smartphones. All they could do from home was calls and zoom.
“There were car “cellphones” that you plugged in and called people.”
Teenagers didn’t have those, either.
So the (very few!) people I knew in 1991/92 who had Microtacs were not real, and just characters in some low budget sci fi faux documentary??
“Grocery is a low margin business. Who wants to be a “winner” in that?”
E-commerce is a low margin business too. Who wants to be a “winner” in that.
e-commerce is scalable… groceries are not
“Most went into work 3 days a week. Mostly for meetings.
More companies will adopt this and will plan their office space, and the design of their offices, accordingly.”
Literally the point I was making. Yes, people want to back in the office because it’s forced remote work currently just like pre-covid it was forced going into the office 5 days a week.
New hires and younger people like your sons post-covid will want to be in the office 3 or 4 days a week. They will choose Wed – Fri so they can go bar hopping or check out a game and WFH Monday and Tuesday whereas Gen-X’s older millennials with kids and 10 years experience will WFH Thursday/Friday to start the weekend getaway earlier, ensure their ability to make the high school football game that their kid is playing or cheerleading in, have dinner reservations at their favorite suburban restaurant at 5 or 6 PM instead of 7 or 8 pm.
It’s going to look different for everyone in every industry, at every company, in every department, and the stages each person in the office is in in life. This will take time to sort out.
“e-commerce is scalable… groceries are not”
Groceries are scalable if the store is built in a town with continuous population growth which dictates profitability and sales trends of a grocer.
Further, integrating grocers into an e-commerce distribution network like Amazon is attempting to do is very scalable. It’s pretty convenient to pick up all of your amazon packages at the same time you pick up your grocery bags for the week at the same location. Only have to make one-stop and don’t have to worry about theft.
The grocery store can act as a warehouse too which helps Amazon scale its Fresh Concept.
“There are also other big grocery chains that, like Amazon’s Whole Foods, are increasingly focused on developing fulfillment centers — sometimes right inside a store that sees foot traffic”
https://techcrunch.com/2020/09/03/that-whole-foods-is-an-amazon-warehouse-get-used-to-it/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHbiT5XHqAHQI_vX4NIRn974O2_GxmTn7sbdi1eSTWIIFVFMJWaV_rx5BvaMQBNom3tab8W_zKRUalyjJRSVNJVoiwTwYU-JQiqZqkSaoRwUXt23enFmLbpbDn7Y-7djYlJ4VFz2dQO_y9ZvolGqU4Gib2RV3uRer526fDNQRlAH
What communication tool is in place today that GenX cant use? I guess maybe you’re still using AOL on your 56k modem?
So there was no internet in 1995 (ie, freshman year for the youngest X’ers). Huh!
So the (very few!) people I knew in 1991/92 who had Microtacs were not real, and just characters in some low budget sci fi faux documentary??
Again GenX was on the forefront of tech, we wern’t luddites.
I can’t believe how much these comments are missing the point.
I am an older Xer and I had a (big, honkin’) cell phone by about ’92 and was using the internet regularly by the mid-to-late-90s, but I was an adult when this (rudimentary by today’s standards) technology became available. Growing up in a world where the (now far superior) technology is commonplace is just different.
I’m by no means a luddite (I work in tech), but a far greater percentage of my life is lived off-line than on*. The “digital native” generation of younger millennials and gen Z sees the online world not as an enhancement or addition to their “real” lives, but view their online presence as an essential component of their identities. That’s simply not true of the vast majority of Xers.
*The last 12 months have upended this a bit.
“Do try to keep up anon(tfo). Amazon Go was NEVER a “beta test” for the technology because they didn’t yet own Whole Foods when they started testing it and planning those stores.”
One would then argue to scale and test their developing technology buying whole foods was a smart option. Further, they now have a grocery brand that people respect. It Apple or Google opened a grocery store tomorrow would you probably wouldn’t go. We knowingly shop for groceries at Amazon because they own Whole Foods who has a good brand.