A 3-Bedroom House Goes From Boarded Up to Rehabbed: 4110 N. St. Louis in Irving Park
This 3-bedroom single family home at 4110 N. St. Louis in Irving Park recently came on the market.
It was bank owned in June 2010 and if you look at the prior listing pictures (which you can do if you’re registered with Redfin)- you’ll see that the two-story house was boarded up.
Originally listed by the Bank for $227,700 it finally sold for $188,000 in October 2010.
Now it is back on the market and the listing says it has been “gut rehabbed.”
The kitchen has stainless steel appliances and custom cabinets.
The listing says the 4 baths are marble stone custom baths.
We don’t know what the kitchen and baths looked like in the prior sale as there are only outside pictures in the old listing. The listing did say that repairs were needed.
The first floor is an open floor plan with hardwood floors.
The house is built on a standard 25×125 lot and has a 2-car garage.
It also has central air and a finished lower level.
Is this a steal for this neighborhood for a rehabbed house?
Angel Navarro at Re-Max Signature has the listing. See the pictures here.
4110 N. St. Louis: 3 bedrooms, 4 baths, 2 car garage, no square footage given
- Sold in February 2002 for $246,000
- Sold in May 2004 for $460,000
- Lis pendens foreclosure filed in January 2009
- Bank owned in June 2010
- Listed in July 2010 for $227,700
- Reduced
- Sold in October 2010 for $188,000
- Recently re-listed for $369,500
- Taxes of $6217
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 17×20 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 12×16 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 11×9 (main floor)
- Recreation Room: 12×24 (lower level)
That kitchen looks very similiar to the one put in at the 4311 Marmora place featured here last week. I wonder if it’s the same rehabber buying supplies in bulk and using extras throughout their jobs (as someone on this board pointed out).
I also wonder if rehabbers like this person and the Marmora rehabber (if not the same) will find that the final price they receive doesn’t justify (to them) the quality work & finishes and they’ll start going cheap again?
dunno how much they gutted but the recessed lighting is not straight, hopefully they ran the electrical well.
I’m thinking the reason for the quality work is the market is so competetive nobody will by cheap junk anymore.
“I’m thinking the reason for the quality work is the market is so competetive nobody will by cheap junk anymore.”
There are lots of rehabs going on in Portage Park, Avondale, Irving Park etc.
decent looking place – except the kitchen is wacky. what’s with the mini island attached to the post? there has to be some better design ideas than that. that would drive me nuts if i lived there.
(and good catch on the crooked recess lights)
regardless, decent SFH rehabs seem to sell – i say $340k
Ya this seems like a solid place. It should go for between 320-350. Isn’t this the type of crib groove is looking for?
Great job, great price!!! Anyone would be extremely lucky to get a SFH in chicago that is totally re-done in the mid 300s. This is a win-win situation. I think is what is going to happen to a lot of the foreclosures in the future. I hope these builders/rehabbers continue to do a great job!!
I have seen a few SFH rehabs where the investor picked up the property for close to nothing and relisted within 9 months fully rehabbed at very competitive prices. It is very hard if not impossible for a conventional homeowner who bought in the boom to compete with these guys. Flipping properties is taking on a whole new life for experienced investors, now they have little to no competition.
“Isn’t this the type of crib groove is looking for?”
groove is/was looking in Galewood
ChiBuilder – you are absolutely right – this is why I keep telling sidelined buyers to buy NOW (if they find something suitable) and DON’T wait for the flood of foreclosures – there is an overwhelmingly small chance that any foreclosure is going to meet all of their needs and an even smaller chance that they will be able to buy one (with all of the sharks out there, every foreclosure in any good area will be gone within hours of being listed).
Kudos to the rehabber, they’ve done a great job, which will likely result in one heck of a happy homebuyer and happy street that used to have a boarded up house.
Comp:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4140-N-Central-Park-Ave-60618/home/13485442
Comp:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4245-N-Ridgeway-Ave-60618/home/13483935
Comp:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4130-N-Saint-Louis-Ave-60618/home/13482338
Comp:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4243-N-Ridgeway-Ave-60618/home/13483934
It appears this area of Irving Park can support rehabbed homes between the $300,000 and into the low $400,000.
Some of the listed homes appear priced just a tad too high.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4215-N-Hamlin-Ave-60618/home/13484782
Too high :
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4153-N-Lawndale-Ave-60618/home/13484353
Too High:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4138-N-Lawndale-Ave-60618/home/13484504
Too high:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4153-N-Saint-Louis-Ave-60618/home/13482730
This is exactly the kind of rehab I wouldn’t be interested in. It was clearly designed to just look good and make money, without much thought given to how folks actually live.
The kitchen island is a joke. It looks like there’s space for a larger one, but of course, that would cost money.
Also, who would want a bathroom with a shower/tub that doesn’t also have storage? Perhaps there’s a linen closet, but they also need storage in the bathrooms. One appears to have none and the other appears to have a small undersink cabinet. Who knows where else they looked to the bottom line at the expense on livability.
No thanks.
When I again get serious about buying a house, I’m going to be looking at places folks renovated for themselves and are still livable and places that need some work so that I can make them livable.
I’d say rehab work being done these days that I’ve seen is much better than it was before the bust, regardless of the location. The quick buck artists and hustlers have moved on to the next scam and the guys that are left are the craftsman who just want to make an honest buck.
@REB, you do realize that the pictures are taken to show the room at the best angle, not show every nook and cranny. There might be a linen closet right outside in the hallway.
@Groove, good luck http://www.chicago.com/neighborhoods/Galewood/
“ChiBuilder – you are absolutely right – this is why I keep telling sidelined buyers to buy NOW (if they find something suitable) and DON’T wait for the flood of foreclosures – there is an overwhelmingly small chance that any foreclosure is going to meet all of their needs and an even smaller chance that they will be able to buy one (with all of the sharks out there, every foreclosure in any good area will be gone within hours of being listed).”
That flood of foreclosures will drive down the cost basis for flippers. It will mean rehabbed properties for even less money in the future.
IMHO, you get what you pay for in this area. My brother in law lived 7-8 houses up from this one until this year. This is Hispanic gang banger central. Always broken glass on the street, gunshots heard, police looking through his yard for tossed weapons and drugs.
Oh yeah, the trend will not be toward better quality. If this is where there is money to be made, it will attact the same pick-up truck locusts as before. They will cannibalize each other on these REO flips fighting for the ever-shrinking pool of homedebtors. It has happened already in some south side areas where the trend began earlier.
“That flood of foreclosures will drive down the cost basis for flippers. It will mean rehabbed properties for even less money in the future.”
Not sure about that, G. As a flipper, if I bought a house in a 400-600k neighborhood for 300k, I would put a little more money into it and charge a little more. In flipping, the profits do NOT get passed down to the buyer. That is flipping 101. The fact you don’t understand this speaks volumes about your overall knowledge (or lack thereof) of the real estate market.
“In flipping, the profits do NOT get passed down to the buyer.”
Neither do the losses. But thanks for showing again that bubble mania is not over and we have more correction, and over-correction, yet to come.
“The fact you don’t understand this speaks volumes about your overall knowledge (or lack thereof) of the real estate market.”
You’re really gonna speak to your more experienced elder like that? What a hypocrite.
G- stop using insulting terms (bubble, knife-catcher) to characterize reality. The truths about the real estate market are:
1. The vast majority of Americans WANT to own houses (not rent).
2. The vast majority of buyers have a price range and within that price range are primarily driven by emotion and fantasy-fulfillment ideals.
3. If you find a way to get money into the hands of borrowers , they WILL buy. Nobody has really learned anything from this real estate bust – they just will rationalize and say that they might have made a mistake but this time/house is different – or will make themselves believe that others were the morons, etc.
“characterize reality” “the truths”
LOL. Well, okay then. No areguing with the delusional.
“bubble” and “knife catcher” are commonly used terms that are not insulting in the least. More delusion on your part.
“@Groove, good luck http://www.chicago.com/neighborhoods/Galewood/”
according to clio i need no luck just emotion and nike’s (just do it).
G-
Take this house for example. What if I told someone that they could actually OWN this house for 1400-1500/month. I would have a line out the door of people wanting this deal. Here would be the breakdown:
I buy this place for 350k cash and “sell” it 100% owner financed at 5% – interest only . Total monthly cost = 1458. Add 520/month for taxes and you have 1978/month. Now, let say this person is in the 25% tax bracket – now deduct 25% of that and you have your monthly payment of 1485. You better frickin believe that there would be a line out the door of people wanting this offer.
In 5 years, a balloon payment would be due (the buyers could get a conventional mortgage).
It is a win-win situation – I make 5% on my money for the next 5 years. If the buyers walks, I am ok because I am sure the house will be worth more than 350k in 5 years and, in the meantime I am still making 5%. The buyers win because they are getting a ridiculously low payment AND, if, in 5 years they don’t want to buy, they can sell and pocket the difference.
THIS is the type of deals that are going to start popping up.
Clio if there is anything you should have learned in the last five years it is that you shouldn’t be sure of anything.
“It is a win-win situation”
So are you gonna buy it then and make some mad loot?
Plus, clio, that smells like a land contract and is a very nasty arrangement that is always where someone gets royally screwed and that person is usually the one “buying” the house from you.
“Plus, clio, that smells like a land contract and is a very nasty arrangement that is always where someone gets royally screwed and that person is usually the one “buying” the house from you.”
Are you crazy? How the f would the “buyer” be screwed? If anyone is taking the risk, it would be ME!!! I would love to hear your explanation!!!
Clio,
Do you have a twitter account? We need to follow you.
Every time this term comes up (from bears or bulls), I want to review the extent of the metaphor:
Trying to catch a falling knife is extremely *risky*, not suicidal. It is a dangerous activity, with very real potential for harm. Those considering it should either have great trust in their experience/skill in such circus acts, and/or comfortable with the possibility of a deep gash. However, those who successfully pull it off have acquired a new weapon for themselves.
“knife catcher”
Well, typically in a land contract the buyers pay you (the seller) installments* for a period of times with a ballon payment* at the end of a certain time period. Now unless you actually give the buyer legal title to the property then you could probably screw the buyer pretty easily. If you gave the buyer the legal title then maybe it would be different.
But in reality these types of contracts are not, I presume, subject to “foreclosure”, but if the buyer violated the terms of the contract your only recourse is probably suing them for breach.
And lastly, these types of deals are usually the purview of subprime buyers or markets and are being done because the buyer can’t get regular financing. It’s just ripe for abuse and as a rational educated buyer I would likely never be party to such a contract.
“What if I told someone that they could actually OWN this house for 1400-1500/month.”
“owner financed at 5% – interest only”
You have a strange definition of “own” or “actually”–not sure which.
“what’s with the mini island attached to the post? there has to be some better design ideas than that. that would drive me nuts if i lived there.”
Yeah, the post needed to stay, as a new beam wouldn’t fit in teh budget. You would think that a bigger island would have worked better, tho, maybe even wrapping around the post.
anon- wtf are you talking about? There is nothing “strange” about my definition of ownership. It is a legal term and I use it so that the home buyer gets the financial and emotional rewards of being a home owner. Basically, they can write off their mortgage interest and real estate tax. Also, they have added security that I am not going to re-rent or raise rent or sell, etc.
ME – the risk is mainly on the seller – not the buyer. The buyer has little invested in the property and can walk away pretty easily. There is no way that the seller could screw the buyer over – that is just your own personal fear because you don’t understand the process. Education is the key to overcoming your fears. Read about land contracts and you will understand.
“You have a strange definition of “own” or “actually”–not sure which.”
Clio is from the Humpty Dumpty school of semantics.
oh really, roma? please explain….
Clio, how does owner financing work out. Can i just go ahead an advertise a property for X% interest rate on a ten year loan with % required downpayment?
“Can i just go ahead an advertise a property for X% interest rate on a ten year loan with % required downpayment?”
Of course – if you own the property outright – you can do whatever you want. If you have a mortgage, it is a little trickier but attorneys can find a way around it. No problem.
“oh really, roma? please explain….”
When you use a word, it means just what you choose it to mean–nothing more, nothing less.
“There is no way that the seller could screw the buyer over – that is just your own personal fear because you don’t understand the process. Education is the key to overcoming your fears. Read about land contracts and you will understand.”
I agree wholeheartedly with Clio here, and would like to suggest Satter’s “Family Properties” (as I have in the past) as a possible first read.
http://www.amazon.com/Family-Properties-Estate-Exploitation-America/dp/080507676X/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
“There is nothing “strange” about my definition of ownership. It is a legal term and I use it so that the home buyer gets the financial and emotional rewards of being a home owner.”
So, you’re deeding the property to them? And recording said deed? Guess you’re more generous than I thought.
If you aren’t deeding it, then in no “legal term” sense do they “own” it–either they are renting it from you or they have an option, but they do NOT own the property.
“I agree wholeheartedly with Clio here, and would like to suggest Satter’s “Family Properties” (as I have in the past) as a possible first read.”
But roma, clio isn’t racist so there’s no need to worry about such things and therefor, definitionally, such things canNOT happen, they are *actually* impossible.
liked the humpty metaphor even before I understood it.
“If you aren’t deeding it, then in no “legal term” sense do they “own” it–either they are renting it from you or they have an option, but they do NOT own the property”
Wrong – I do not give them title to the property but my attorneys make sure that the language is such that they effectively own the property (and thus can legally deduct interest and taxes). It really is quite simple. You should look into it.
“effectively own”
AH! So it is “actually” that you are using in an interesting fashion. To mean “effectively”. Which, in standard English AND in “legal English” does NOT actually mean the same thing as actually.
ps:
Sorry, Groove!
Clio, what would be the process of foreclosing on them if they dont have title but they “own” the property. Is it easier?
“ps:
Sorry, Groove!”
did i miss a hobbit leg’s ribshot or something?
anon- if semantics is the only thing you can criticize me on, then I consider it a victory. Look beyond the words and concentrate on the concept.
ps – if this back-and-forth irritates groove, he doesn’t need to read it. he is a grown up and doesn’t need to be coddled.
Clio, so im asking about if they become deliquent in their payments… do you even need to do the whole foreclosure process to get ownership back?
“did i miss a hobbit leg’s ribshot or something?”
No. The other thing. I’m out again.
Interesting comps homedelete. What is your rough guess at rehab costs of the first 3 flips posted above?
“Clio, what would be the process of foreclosing on them if they dont have title but they “own” the property. Is it easier?”
It would be like a typical foreclosure and could take months – however, since you are the bank, you can move forward much faster than most foreclosures. That being said, it will likely be a 4-8 month process to get them out. This is why you need to pick your buyers carefully and keep a close eye on the property.
Still my experience on the subject of land contracts are for subprime buyers and/or markets. Since you don’t giev the buyer title then you are simply renting and if they skip on the contract and also don’t do any maintenance when living in the house or possibly do damage what are you going to do to protect your investement? You said you would 100% finance the place (buyer has no “skin” in), but you also probably don’t have a “security deposit” either.
Land contracts just seem like a bad way to invest $300,000+. But its your mone, clio, so do as you wish.
““did i miss a hobbit leg’s ribshot or something?”
No. The other thing. I’m out again.”
oh, got it now!
good decision, its prob best for the heart 😉
“good decision, its prob best for the heart”
glad to hear I am finally getting through to both of you!!!
Clio, I do sometimes joke around with you but if you pay attention you’ll see I do not generally participate in the Clio-bashing around here. Just a Lewis Carroll reference. For the record, there are some people (inc professors at your alma mater) who defend Humpty Dumpty’s theory of semantics as, in fact, the correct one!
“he is a grown up and doesn’t need to be coddled.”
But “bubble” and “knife catcher” are offensive to you? What a hypocrite, again.
“THIS is the type of deals that are going to start popping up.”
No money down 5% seller financing? Delusional, indeed.
Back to the house… judging by the 10 week turnaround, there is no way this is a proper gut rehab. Nevermind the shoddy aesthetic work, the horrible layout, afterthought finishes or the abortion of a kitchen. If those items were done so poorly I don’t even want to guess about the subflooring, foundation, roof, insulation, electrical, plumbing, etc
“Back to the house… judging by the 10 week turnaround, there is no way this is a proper gut rehab. Nevermind the shoddy aesthetic work, the horrible layout, afterthought finishes or the abortion of a kitchen. If those items were done so poorly I don’t even want to guess about the subflooring, foundation, roof, insulation, electrical, plumbing, etc”
The turnaround is way to quick for a decent rehab. I would certainly ask if he pulled any permits for this work.
“The turnaround is way to quick for a decent rehab. I would certainly ask if he pulled any permits for this work.”
Are you kidding me? If you have your own contractors, own connections to suppliers things move very fast. People really would be surprised at how fast renovations can be done when people are motivated and connected.
http://webapps.cityofchicago.org/buildingpermit/search/applicationsearch.htm
Be careful G- don’t mess with people’s business. I have been in the field a long time and know when to look the other way – you should learn.
HEY HEY HEY
Here’s the next ‘Irving Park’ rehab project.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4253-N-Saint-Louis-Ave-60618/home/13483562
Listed at $69,300 and under K in less than 11 days! Go rehabbers! I can’t wait to see this house on the market again in Feb!
HD – why does that place look like it was started as a rehab, then abandoned almost immediately into the project?
“why does that place look like it was started as a rehab, then abandoned almost immediately into the project?”
It probably was.
I’ve seen a lot of cases like this. I knew a guy who paid over $500,000 for a 3 bed bungalow in Albany Park and he wanted to rehab it and flip it. I asked, did you think you were going to resell your standard Chicago bungalow for like $700,000 or something? And he’s like ‘yes’. Of course he ran out of money like so many of them do early in the project (well since now we’re real estate moguls lets eat at mortons!) and abandon them at a critical phase, which in turn causes more damage.
“People really would be surprised at how fast renovations can be done when people are motivated and connected.”
I wouldn’t doubt 10 weeks for a aesthetic only renovation, but for a proper gut rehab I just don’t see it being a quality/thorough job. Enlighten me if I am incorrect.
“I wouldn’t doubt 10 weeks for a aesthetic only renovation, but for a proper gut rehab I just don’t see it being a quality/thorough job. Enlighten me if I am incorrect.”
Could be done, in the absence of red tape, and with everything *very* efficiently scheduled. As G referenced, no red tape on this one, so might be possible, tho I, too, am dubious.
its all about the neighborhood
is the hood worth it
safety?
good for families?
Under contract.
good for them. i love proving the naysayers wrong….
did people say that this wouldn’t sell? i just think people said it wouldn’t sell for ask.
i dont think its going to sell for ask either once the sale is complete.
anyway, regardless -im glad it moved quickly. nobody wants a boarded up house! keep the flips coming.
SOLD FOR $350,000