A Condo Alternative in this Lakeview Victorian Home? 3652 N. Hermitage
This 1893 Victorian single family home at 3652 N. Hermitage in Lakeview doesn’t try and hide its vintage character.
The home proudly boasts of its “retro” kitchen with tin ceilings.
There is no square footage listed for the house but here are the room sizes:
- Living room: 13×12
- Dining room: 10×10
- Kitchen: 14×12
- Bedroom #1: 14×12
- Bedroom #2: 18×12
- Bedroom #3: 9×9
- Partially finished basement
The house has central air, 2 car parking and a large backyard.
Is this a good condo alternative?
Kristi Gunther at Re/Max Exclusive Properties has the listing. See more pictures here.
3652 N. Hermitage: 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 2 car garage, no square footage listed
- Sold in November 2002 for $386,500
- Originally listed in August 2008 for $599,900
- Withdrawn in November 2008 at $599,900
- Re-listed in April 2009 and currently listed at $539,900
- Taxes of $5739
- Central air
If they were smart they would price it at 520k or accept an offer for this amount. At 520k a buyer with 20% down can get a conforming loan to cover the rest. I don’t want to hear about the lower than 20% down crowd as they are a temporary market segment to me.
It is my hopeful belief a few years from now these higher than 80% LTV mortgages will be a thing of the past.
Nice location but needs a total kitchen re-do. I’m thinking $425-450K.
I sincerely hope no one on this blog buys this lovely home and creates a cookie-cutter kitchen “redo.” It’s perfect.
Great yard, great back porch. Excellent location. The price totally sucks. Nevertheless, Someone will consider this a ‘deal’ and will pay damn near asking. I bet it closes within 10% of the listing price.
“I sincerely hope no one on this blog buys this lovely home and creates a cookie-cutter kitchen “redo.” It’s perfect.”
Two things:
(1) Is there a pantry? If not, there’s no storage.
(2) Dishwasher? Yeah, yeah, but I don’t know **anyone** interested in paying $500k+ who wouldn’t want a dishwasher (obviously, I don’t know the current owners).
It’s not “perfect” for fetching the asking price. Most potential buyers in this area and price range are not going to be content with a 1950’s kitchen no matter how “perfect” it may be to you.
Wow that price is insane!
Love vintage. Love SFH. This place at this price is a joke, though.
Listed sq. ft. totals 889 (no including baths). Maybe 950-1000 with baths and closets? The third bedroom is about the size of a closet (9×9).
Take 100k off the top and you are in the ballpark, imo.
$150K appreciation w/ no updates/rehab/etc and less than 7 years living? Plus a 3rd bedroom that’s really a den. Have they been living under a rock?
That dining room is extremely small too at 10×10.
I’ll agree with condoshopper that I actually like the kitchen. I’m sure whoever buys this place will tear it out–in which case, will you please give me a call so I can collect the sink, stove and blue cabinet?
The price doesn’t strike me as insane, although I’ve only been obsessively following real estate in my neighborhood (Irving Park). 😉 The location is pretty awesome. You’re within easy walking distance of the brown line and Trader Joe’s, shopping along Paulina (the Paulina Meat Market, Dinkels!), the Whole Foods on Ashland and Southport. The yard looks pretty good too.
I used to own one of those old Victorian workman’s cottages, and they can be surprisingly capacious for such a small profile. I hope Bob’s scenario plays out for the sellers.
I love the concrete lion in the back yard.
I would love to live here, but I imagine there needs to be some energy efficiency improvements made. Just given the age.
OK, I didn’t read the listing. If it’s under 1,000 feet I will agree that it is likely overpriced. I’m wondering if they didn’t dormer the roof–that can really restrict how much of the second floor you can use.
It would have been relatively easy to beef up the insulation at the time of the siding job. But most owners aren’t that smart.
I think this place will sell quickly. It is in a great neighborhood, and has all the necessities. It appears that the upstairs bedrooms and bath are fairly new, and if someone doesn’t like the “retro” kitchen, then it is pretty easy to replace it. A good percentage of any kitchen reno (assuming you hire it out) is the demo of the old kitchen, with this place that would be minimal.
“Listed sq. ft. totals 889 (no including baths). Maybe 950-1000 with baths and closets?”
But it’s got an 1100 sq foot, grass, terrace (aka, the backyard). If it were a condo, you could list it as 2200 sq ft.
But seriously, the building footprint is a little over 700 sqft, so I’d put it closer to 1100 or 1150, not counting the (partially-finished!) basement.
Great kitchen! I suspect the buyer will do some Napervillian “Jason-esque” kitchen rehab with 42″ cabinets and granite counter tops.. So very over, so very inappropriate.
I am with you condoshopper.
what would this have sold for as a tear down in 06?
A 1950’s style kitchen is no more or less apppropriate in a “Victorian” house than a modern kitchen would be. If you’re gonna use that argument the kitchen should feature a coal-fired stove, a scullery and a big wooden icebox.
“So very over, so very inappropriate.”
it’s worth pointing out that there is a growing movement towards smaller residences, for the energy-savings reasons mentioned above. I am one of those folks who considers a nice backyard to be an extension of one’s living space.
I’d also be surprised if they didn’t have an insulation wrap done when they did the siding, it doesn’t add a lot of cost.
*I suspect the buyer will do some Napervillian “Jason-esque” kitchen rehab with 42? cabinets and granite counter tops.*
Napervillian? Ouch. Call me anything but a suburbanite!
“I am one of those folks who considers a nice backyard to be an extension of one’s living space.”
Whats humorous is how prevalent and vocal the likes of your opinion tends to be during the warmer months in Chicagoland, and how completely absent and lacking from observation it is in the colder half of the year.
I’d bet if you analyzed sales data you would find there are much bigger premiums on terraces and outdoor spaces during the warmer months than colder.
Oh and skeptic, I don’t think there is a growing movement towards smaller domiciles. Please put down the pop culture magazines.
There WAS a growing movement towards this when affordability went to crap, but now that it is returning people are going to want the most bang for their real estate buck. This means more space.
This place would be perfectly fine at 350k, but for 540k I have a lot more options and would like a much bigger place, likely elsewhere.
That being said, killer yard. You don’t see many in the city this size and this nice anymore.
“what would this have sold for as a tear down in 06?”
Blaine is the nabe-school (don’t feel like checking)?
If so, it likely would have sold for their initial ask as a teardown in 05/06. Or very, very quickly at their current ask.
I think it is a bit small, but not terribly over priced. It is in the city and not much more expensive than some condos.
I am one of those people who absolutely hates big houses. People forget about the cost to maintain a home is more than just the mortgage payment. You always know when someone bought too much house because it isn’t totally furnished.
I would take a small but functional house in a good location over a big McMansion in a crappy location any day. Who really needs 5 bedrooms and 4 baths? It will probably go for right around $510k. i think the kitchen is kind of cool. Granite and SS was cool until all of middle america got it in $150k starter condos or crap box developments in Joilet.
thanks. listing says Hamilton is the school. but I thought it would be more… weren’t teardowns in north center going for mid 600s? maybe that was hearsay.
The no countertops would drive me insane… sorry but I think that kitchen sucks.
Yeah, Napervillian here. I would love this kitchen in the circa 1890s farm house on my new farm instead of its recently remodeled faux granite and new cabinets. I’ve lived without a dishwasher and as long as everyone pitches in with chores I don’t mind it. The one neglected outbuilding on my farm is called a “summer kitchen”, which the previous owners had considered tearing down. I haven’t even looked inside it yet (we don’t settle until June), but I’m hoping to restore it to its original use, maybe with an old wood cookstove. We’re a little scared that we have become too soft, with all the Napervillian luxuries, to make a go of a sustainable farm. But even us shallow Napervillians can appreciate the beauty of different kind of life.
paulj: Great kitchen! I suspect the buyer will do some Napervillian “Jason-esque” kitchen rehab with 42? cabinets and granite counter tops.. So very over, so very inappropriate.
they aren’t really doing teardowns anymore, especially at this price. New housing starts is at a post-WWII low so there’s no way anyone is going to buy this today for $539k to tear it down.
Yeah, Napervillian here. I would love this kitchen in the circa 1890s farm house on my new farm instead of its recently remodeled faux granite and new cabinets. I’ve lived without a dishwasher and as long as everyone pitches in with chores I don’t mind it. The one neglected outbuilding on my farm is called a “summer kitchen”, which the previous owners had considered tearing down. I haven’t even looked inside it yet (we don’t settle until June), but I’m hoping to restore it to its original use, maybe with an old wood cookstove. We’re a little scared that we have become too soft, with all the Napervillian luxuries, to make a go of a sustainable farm. But even us shallow Napervillians can appreciate the beauty of different kind of life.
paulj: “Great kitchen! I suspect the buyer will do some Napervillian “Jason-esque” kitchen rehab with 42? cabinets and granite counter tops.. So very over, so very inappropriate.”
I for once agree with Sonies that the kitchen would drive me nuts. however, I cannot stop raving about that yard and that deck. I’d be out there pretty much 3 seasons a year, I’d eat dinner out there probably 7 nights a week. here’s a bird’s eye view:
http://maps.live.com/#JnE9eXAuMzY1MituK2hlcm1pdGFnZSUyYytjaGljYWdvJTJjK2lsJTdlc3N0LjAlN2VwZy4xJmJiPTUzLjg1MjUyNjYwMDQ0OTUlN2UtNDkuMjE4NzUlN2UyNy4xMzczNjgzNTk3OTU2JTdlLTEyNi4yMTA5Mzc1
“Who really needs 5 bedrooms and 4 baths? ”
Edumakated I think you’re exaggerating just slightly. From my MLS surfing it appears that SFH’s in the city tend to max out at 4 bedrooms and 3.5 baths and around 3,600sf.
You really need to go unconventional or get into stratosphere pricing to get more than 4/3.5 and 3,600sf it seems. Even 4,500+sf homes priced in the 1MM range don’t often have more than 3.5 baths and a 2 car garage you’ll find. Which is interesting: I’d expect there to be more diversity among the real high end.
There’s a reason they don’t build kitchens like this anymore: they SUCK to cook in! There’s no counter space and no dishwasher. I had a similar kitchen in an old college apartment and it’s nothing I’d ever tolerate in a home I was paying upwards of $500,000 for.
This house has a great yard and some nice charm, but anyone who likes to cook more than a frozen pizza or mac & cheese isn’t going to pay this much for that kitchen. It IS possible to have retro kitchens that are still functional.
“weren’t teardowns in north center going for mid 600s?”
Some. But (1) this is Lakeview, not North Center (east of Ravenswood) and (2) the mid-600k teardowns (outisde 60614) I know about were 30′ lots, rather than 25′ lots and (3) the nabe-school probably made a $50-75k difference for the smart builders.
The comment was more for illustrative purposes. My point was really that people tend to buy what they can afford, not what they really need. I would rather have a more modest home that is nicely decorated and functional versus a very large home with tons of wasted space and frills that aren’t really a necessity.
Seriously, who really needs a 3600 or 4000 square foot home other than to impress other people? Unless you have like 8 kids, what is the point?
Yuk. This place is Working Class Housing.
It has everything- charmless cookie-cutter architecture; outdated, ugly, nonfunctional kitchen, small rooms.
It DOES have a nice yard, which is a major thing for some people.
I’d pay teardown-value for it.
“From my MLS surfing it appears that SFH’s in the city tend to max out at 4 bedrooms and 3.5 baths and around 3,600sf. ”
I find 22 houses with 5+ BR and 4+ baths in North Center alone. Priced from $749k to $3.4mm. Don’t know about sqft, but anything over ~3600 on a standard lot *must* have a third floor or count basement space.
“Seriously, who really needs a 3600 or 4000 square foot home other than to impress other people? Unless you have like 8 kids, what is the point?”
Maybe you have frequent guests? Maybe your parents/other relatives might be moving in with you at some point. In this coming downturn inter-generational housing is back “in”. Look at 1600 PA Ave. Its narrow minded to think that someone only desires a big house to impress others.
You are right that in most instances larger houses are what people want and not what they need, I’ll give you that. But I, unlike our government, try not to make value judgements on wants vs needs. Afterall housing ownership is a want and our government via its policies over the past 50 years has confused it with being a need. Look where it got us.
But for a fun exercise try to find SFH homes or condos with four full baths on the MLS. I did this yesterday and after 15mins of searching found exactly one. Another rarity is a 3-car garage (much more common in the suburbs tho).
I know a 30 something couple with no children and 5 bedrooms and three full levels (including basement) of living space. outrageous. The monthly taxes are more than my rent. the idea of having that much space to vacuum is daunting. I think 2500-3000 sq for 4 people (3 or 4 bedrooms) ideal plenty. 1000 sq like this house is pretty tight.
“I find 22 houses with 5+ BR and 4+ baths in North Center alone.”
Okay I was definitely searching the wrong neighborhoods then. I think I picked Uptown as the N Side example and Bridgeport for the S Side. I intentionally excluded LP & LV as I suspected there would be ridiculous outliers ($2MM+ homes). See how many of those 4+ baths are really four full baths though, I’d bet a small fraction. I really wasn’t aware there were these kind of houses in N Center to be honest.
“But for a fun exercise try to find SFH homes or condos with four full baths on the MLS”
Again, North Center only, 31 currently for sale. Maybe they are lying about all 4 (or 5) baths being full baths, but that’s what the listings state.
“there would be ridiculous outliers ($2MM+ homes).”
Of the 31 with 4+ full baths:
1 is $3mm+
3 more over $2mm
5 more over $1.9mm
17 are b/t $1.8mm and $1mm
5 are under $1mm
Ok I don’t know what happened to my post, but man this kitchen is brutal with no countertop space! I would hate cooking in there!
And Bob,
You mention people wanting more space, but who the hell needs 4 bathrooms? Unless you live in a 4 level condo/house there really would seem to be no point.
“You mention people wanting more space, but who the hell needs 4 bathrooms?”
No one. I just found it odd that you would think there would be a broad distribution of homes with ones priced 50k more with an extra one given all the housing stock in the city. From my searching yesterday I didn’t see that so thought it was due to some regulation or tax reason. Apparently not the case.
Anon(tfo) from my searching yesterday I found that on the initial MLS summary they round up the half baths. You need to click into the listings (at least on ziprealty) to see whether theres a half bath in there.
For under 600k though, I’ve found a steady progression up to 4/3.5, want any more than that and you’re in the stratosphere pricing wise. Guess those are the biggest models developers build and anything greater is custom/spec housing perhaps.
3702 N. Hermitage, which was a complete tear down, sold last July for 450k. This house is nowhere near tear down condition. 3832 N. Hermitage, which was pretty decked out with a nice newer kitchen and baths is under contract, with a list price of 775k. You guys saying this house is worth 450k need to get real.
It will sell for high 400’s low 500’s because it is a SFH quite near to cultural attractions, a cub fan might pay near ask. The kitchen is not that usable looking from the photo’s but even a cook might sacrifice for the other elements.
“3702 N. Hermitage, which was a complete tear down, sold last July for 450k.”
Not that I disagree with your point, but last July is a long time ago in this housing market. Are the owners really only (effectively) asking $90k for the improvements?
“Anon(tfo) from my searching yesterday I found that on the initial MLS summary they round up the half baths.”
Used ksgmac.com. They list the full and half baths separately, and I looked at the full list, w/o clicking thru every one. All 31 have 4 or more “full” baths (no idea how full is full). Of course, only one of them is under $600k–4142 N Maplewood at $540k.
This house is an example of location, location, location. Move that house 12 blocks directly to the west and look at the pricing: $299,000
http://www.redfin.com/search#lat=41.951439634318454&long=-87.70776271820068&market=chicago&status=1&uipt=3,2,1&v=4&zoomLevel=17
Wrong link:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3835-N-Kedzie-Ave-60618/home/13454250
Homedelete, not quite apples to apples. Kedzie is a two-way street and thus a lot more congested.
“Move that house 12 blocks directly to the west and look at the pricing: $299,000”
14 blocks, but that’s no biggie. And even if it’s a quiet stretch of Kedzie, it’s still Kedzie.
On the plus, it’s brick, on the minus, the interior is almost certainly totally trashed (altho the kitchen might be *more* functional, even if way less cool).
It’s the best example of a cottage I could find! granted I only spent about 45 seconds looking
“It’s the best example of a cottage I could find! ”
Nah, it’s really good. If I were someone inclined to live with the “retro” kitchen (i.e., no kids, so unconcerned with school), I’d totally rather have the brick one and $200k to renovate (aka re-build) it. The only downer on Kedzie is the mile plus to any train–but then it’s only about a mile to both blue and brown and metra.
“Oh and skeptic, I don’t think there is a growing movement towards smaller domiciles. Please put down the pop culture magazines.”
I have no idea what you mean by “pop culture” magazines, but there is most certainly an energy price-related backlash against huge homes that cost a bloody fortune to heat and cool.
But whatever, I’ll file you in with the people who have been telling me for a decade running that living “green” is just a fad, go the Green Festival in a few weeks and tell me if that’s a fad or a movement – I sure don’t see an equivalent gathering/momentum for the McMansion crowd.
I would be interested to see the floorplan for this house. I really do like it! I have done several very similar to this in Florida and they were always a quick sale at asking price or very close. For all you get here, even if you wanted to do that tired ‘new’ kitchen (depending on the floorplan) you could do so on a tight budget and have it end up great.
There is definately a market for these small houses…not everyone wants a mega house and all the work/expense that comes with it. Unless you have 3+ kids, why would anyone want 4 bedrooms? I think one of the important lessons learned from this housing mess is that you can no longer bite off more than you can chew…less is more nowdays.
“I have no idea what you mean by “pop culture” magazines, but there is most certainly an energy price-related backlash against huge homes that cost a bloody fortune to heat and cool. ”
I’ve read numerous articles online that people now “prefer” smaller houses, they are “in”. I’m a contrarian and if the sheeple are stampeding into smaller houses becauses it’s chic you better believe the premium for them is going up and the PPSF for them will wind up being significantly more than bigger houses.
Yeah green may be more chic this year than last but guess what? Last year in Illinois you could’ve got tax credits to cover 2/3 the cost of a solar PV installation, nowadays its less than half that. Sheeple aren’t motivated by economics they’re more motivated by fitting in and faddish behavior.
it’s not about being “chic” – it’s about people realizing that not being wasteful means they save money. and not having loads of extra room space you don’t need saves you money, in addition to the maintenance mentioned above.
you have no idea what you’re talking about on the PV incentives, which makes me wonder if you have any idea about anything you talk about.
for starters, the state of IL doesn’t offer tax credits, that’s the Feds. The state of IL offers a straight-up rebate.
it is true the state of IL currently is not reimbursing people for PV, but that’s because IL is broke and it’s a cash flow problem. that doesn’t mean the rebate won’t be honored, just that it will take longer than it has in the past.
Some demos may begin to prefer smaller houses – but I don’t think they’re willing pay a premium for it. $539,000 for a cottage is so much money in the scheme of things. My apartment is larger. No I don’t have a back yard but it’s also way way cheaper and I don’t have to pay real estate taxes (directly at least) either.
skeptic,
Joe Z is that you? Claiming other people don’t know what they are talking about? I think it is YOU who has NO idea what they are talking about. The difference between rebate and tax deduction/credit is trivial, its the same outcome assuming you pay taxes. If you don’t pay taxes you won’t be buying real estate.
Go back under your rock sheeple. The downsized housing trend is indeed very chic these days, which means pretty soon we’ll see 400k cottages in Chicago as minimal-esque will be the new fad. I’ll live next door in a house twice as big with twice as many bathrooms for 50k more and be decidedly un-chic.
You’re confusing what the bubble was (crazy inflation of PPSF) with American’s long-term preference for larger domiciles. The latter part isn’t going away.
http://solar.calfinder.com/rebates/illinois
“Rebates
Solar Energy Rebate Program. This is a state rebate program offered to residences, commercial applications, schools, industrial sectors, nonprofits, and associations. It provides up to a 30% rebate for those who qualify for the installation of solar systems. This one expires in May 2009, so you might want to hurry to take advantage of its benefits.”
I prefer a smaller house, but is has nothing to do with being green. I got a big ass gas guzzling v8 in a Volkswagen Touraeg to prove it. Big houses just aren’t practical and I rather spend my money enjoying life and traveling instead of a big mortgage and utilities to heat rooms that I won’t use.
I think the trend towards smaller, more practical houses is here to stay.
It might be except that the builders will have to start building smaller more practical houses because they haven’t been for years…..maybe when the new construction starts pick up from their 60 year lows the builders will build smaller, more practical houses. I think the overall sentiment is that way but it hasn’t yet manifested itself in the housing stock.
“I think the trend towards smaller, more practical houses is here to stay.”
In fact I can think of a half a dozen mcmansions in my neighorhood; not a single more affordable practical house was built during the boom. In fact they’ll STILL building mcmansions in my neighborhood despite the fact that there are half a dozen sitting vacant and unsold! granted the smaller houses are selling much faster but that’s probably because they’re a lot cheaper too. I personally prefer something in the middle of a 1000 sq ft cottage and a 4500 sq mcmansion.
And all of these McMansions will sit vacant until they are priced right. I’m leaning more towards 3,000-3,500sf (finished basement can count as its indoor space). I think in a few years the pricing will be right and I’ll have a downpayment by then.
Sure others want to spend their money on pimped out german cars and travel but I prefer housing. 😀 When I travel for work I make a mini vacation out of it.
I’m just skeptical of those who predict this trend of downsizing to stay. I can’t see people, even of our idealistic generation, willing to downsize when they are raising their families much. I don’t see someone who grew up in a 2,500sf house in Naperville willing to live and be content in this cottage, for instance. Entitlement and living better than one’s parents is ingrained into the American paradigm at least as long as I’ve been alive. I don’t see it changing once the economic situation improves.
Bob, there are no guarantees in life that the typical american will live better than their parents. Based on the current balance sheet of the typical american household and the US government I think that this country will be in for some tough times for many years to come. This is probably the tipping point when you will see standards of living increase in other regions of the world while the US declines.
“I don’t see someone who grew up in a 2,500sf house in Naperville willing to live and be content in this cottage, for instance. Entitlement and living better than one’s parents is ingrained into the American paradigm at least as long as I’ve been alive. I don’t see it changing once the economic situation improves.”
revassal is right. The owner should try to sell this thing to a die-hard Cubs fan. They sure are used to paying a lot and getting very little in return.
Speaking for my kids, one in college & the other in high school, who grew up in our big Naperville house, that’s not necessarily true. My son would be overjoyed with this place. But he’s very low maintenance and would be satisfied with a studio apartment as long as he maintains his privacy. My daughter is the complete opposite. She thinks she is a princess and that she belongs in a castle, and with her drive she will probably get one some day. She’s managed to soak up a lot of materialism, but seeing that she’s only 16, I haven’t given up hope for her.
Bob: “I don’t see someone who grew up in a 2,500sf house in Naperville willing to live and be content in this cottage, for instance.”
Downsizing will be the trend for the foreseeable future for reasons that have nothing to do with what people want.
We will go back to living the way we did when people still saved money and personal debt loads were relatively low. Hard to believe, but well-off upper-middle class folk- doctors, lawyers, middle-managers at major corporations- commonly raised their families in houses 1500 sq ft to 2000 sq ft. A second bath was a luxury, and so was a 2nd car. My grandparents were well off people who enjoyed great luxury, but a 3,000 or 4,000 sq ft house was not one of them, for they lived in a 1600 sq ft Cape Cod along side similar dwelling occupied by well-paid professionals. Their house was considered to be the suburban dream c. 1946.
The uber-luxe middle class lifestyles of the past 20 years have been underwritten by the loosest lending ever conceived, and we are paying the price of it now. Most of our 19 major banks are insolvent and will require many more major infusions of cash to continue to operate, and that will come out of the back pockets of every citizen in this country, including those who in no way were able to enjoy the spending binge of the past 20 years.
Party’s over- back to living within our (steeply reduced) means and paying for what we get. 4000 sq ft houses are for Rich Folks, which does not mean everyone who makes a 6 figure income.
McMansions are a reflection of construction cost. It’s cheap to build a big boxy building volume. Finishes are expensive, but generally limited to kitchen and bath build-out and hardwood floors. Many McMansions are just decorated vinyl-clad wood-frame boxes, built to maximize the zoning envelop of minimum setbacks and maximum building height.
Land costs for urban in-fill residential neighborhood lots are high, usually reflecting cost of purchasing an existing house and lot, demolishing house, and constructing a new house on a narrow constricted lot, with work area further constricted by existing neighboring structures on two sides.
Developers of the urban McMansions, build the maximum building volume to be able to charge a high price, so that they can realize a profit after factoring in land costs, construction costs, margin, and financing costs. Under those circumstances, it’s difficult to impossible to build a smaller house for a much lower sales price without governmental or institutional subsidies to maintain margin.
Of further concern regarding Chicago’s urban McMansions (versus suburban subdivision McMansions constructed by conventional housing development firms) is that most of these one-off houses were constructed by “pick-up truck” developer/contractors with little experience in construction and no development business history. Many of Chicago’s McMansions were designed to impress inexperienced buyers who were impressed by “granite/stainless” bathroom and kitchen finishes while paying no attention to quality of building materials or quality of construction assembly itself. There is a significant problem here in Chicago with poorly constructed newer 3-flat, 6-flat, and single family homes, often using unsealed concrete block sidewall construction, which is rapidly aging and suffering from water inflitration and developing structural problems. Personally, I would avoid almost all newer construction of this type.
“The difference between rebate and tax deduction/credit is trivial, its the same outcome assuming you pay taxes. If you don’t pay taxes you won’t be buying real estate.”
Wrong. It has to do with when you get the money back – a rebate is cash payment. the tax deduction assumes you will be paying enough taxes to take advantage of the credit. perhaps this is a minor distinction to you, but it isn’t to loads of people out there crunching the numbers – there’s a big difference being out of pocket $10K for 2 months as opposed to 6 or more.
And no, you aren’t to get 2/3 of the PV costs covered, even though your own quote contradicts you (newsflash: May 2009 is this year, and it is absolutely going to be renewed due to the State’s 25-by-2025 renewable energy mandate).
these are the biggest boys on the block, note the word “capped”:
http://www.solarserviceinc.com/grantsandrebates.html
“State Rebate: The State of Illinois offers a 30% rebate (capped at $10,000) to help Illinois Residents pay the costs of solar. The funds are typically allocated on a first come first serve basis until the budget has been spent. Historically a waiting list has then been generated for the next fiscal year. Home owners are eligible for a rebate for both a solar thermal and solar electric system. This program is legislated into law until 2016.”
It’s still a great deal even if your final cost is 50-60% of the total quote. I just got several quotes for my house (postponing until we do other energy efficiency projects), so by all means continue to spout your silliness.
And am I Joe Z? Wow. Funniest thing I’ve heard in years. Joe would think so, too.
“Big houses just aren’t practical and I rather spend my money enjoying life and traveling instead of a big mortgage and utilities to heat rooms that I won’t use.”
You may not be a hippie, but that in fact reflects core principles behind the concept of being green. It’s about sustainability – and most people can’t sustain (or won’t) a lifestyle where they are paying expensive heating/cooling bills for wasted space. It’s why most senior citizens downsize after the kids move away, why would they pay to keep space they no longer need?
Sort of on topic, anon(Tfo) maybe you know the answer, but what does it mean when new construction brick looks like it’s bleeding some sort of white powder? I see all these shoddily built 3/6 flats and many of them have brick that looks covered in white powder or something and they don’t even bother to do anything about it. Why does the brick bleed like that? Thanks
architect: “…o with poorly constructed newer 3-flat, 6-flat, and single family homes, often using unsealed concrete block sidewall construction , which is rapidly aging and suffering from water inflitration and developing structu…”
would those be cinderblocks? are they different?
HD that’s efflorescent, the water leaves mineral deposits behind, that’s the white powder. Bricks are suppose to allow the movement of water, so depending on the season they are either letting moisture out or sucking moisture in.
As far as I know it normal and if you try to get it out the chemical you use could stain the brick, and sealing them is a bad idea. It is my opinion that those ‘new’ bricks are not as good a quality as the old stuff.
The white powder on the bricks is salt – the bricks are permeable and over the winter water is drawn into the brick and later drawn back out. When it evaporates it leaves behind the salt on the face of the brick. I suppose it will probably wash of eventually given enough rain.
speaking of the water issue, does anyone here know exactly when the City finally mandated that all exterior block had to be waterproofed? I remember cases in the late 90s where there were some lawsuits about that, and I wonder how many of those buildings were built without the waterproofing.
HD:
what REV and spark said. One clarification: minerals = salts =/= (necessarily) NaCl. And, in older brick, it’s usually a sign that you’re going to need to do some brick work.
Thanks! I learn something new everyday!
Lucid Realty had a blog post about the white crud.
http://blog.lucidrealty.com/2009/03/28/white-crud-invades-chicago/
I have had this occur in several basements of homes in NY on the floors and walls. It usually appears in the spring after a winter of heavy snow. The only thing you can do about it is to brush or sweep it up/off and nothing more. It does not affect the structure at all and nothing can be done to prevent it.
I did ‘freak out’ when I first came across it years ago, but my fears were quickly put to rest by an explaination from my housing inspector.
“A 1950’s style kitchen is no more or less apppropriate in a “Victorian” house than a modern kitchen would be.”
Agreed. Also, I don’t think it’s fair to imply that Jason was inappropriate for rehabbing his kitchen. From the pictures, it appears he didn’t actually have a kitchen – http://cribchatter.com/?p=6284#comments
Installing granite countertops in the shell of a kitchen, is different than actually tearing down a usable kitchen to put them in.
Efflorescence on the exterior of a building on face brick is not normal and is not a good thing. It means that moisture is getting behind the bricks from one way or another, often times because the stone caps are not caulked and sealed properly, or there is a flashing problem, or the joints are cracked/not done properly etc. There will always be moisture that gets back there, but a properly constructed masonry building will not produce large amounts of efflorescence.
Masonry problems are the biggest thing I see come up in inspections of new construction buildings and houses, including high end ones.
Q: What causes efflorescence and how can it be avoided?
A: Efflorescence is a type of discoloration. It is a deposit, usually white in color that occasionally develops on the surface of concrete, often just after a structure is completed. Although unattractive, efflorescence is usually harmless. In rare cases excessive efflorescence, within the pores of the material, can cause expansion that may disrupt the surface.
I would not be concerned with it as it causes no real problems other than a cosmetic one. I mainly deal with it in concrete block constructed homes, usually basement walls or garages. I have not seen it in poured concrete basements so it is a problem in bricks/blocks only, my opinions from past circumstances only.
I was told to use a high quality sealing primer product (Zinnser is the product I stand by) followed by enamel paint to eliminate the white powder from forming.
I love and highly recommend Zinnser for a number of projects. If I want to retain a homes original materials. From painting over discolored wood cabinets, formica counter tops or backsplashes and ceramic tiles that come in those ‘groovy’ 60’s era homes in pink, blue and mint green. A few coats of primer and you have saved yourself the hassle and expense of replacing those tiles and away from granite all together.
I am all for using as many original building materials on older homes (mainly 50s and 60s styles) and this option works wonders for me. After using the primer and a high quality paint, I take a white paint marker and carefully outline the grout lines between the tiles for an authentic look.
Besides using as much of a homes original materials in kitchens especially, I do not go for all SS appliances and have a better look and value with all black or wood grain covered appliances that blend with cabinetry.
Going back to JPS’ comment of buyers rehabbers who replace siding, I would say 90% do go for replacing or adding to the insulation and new lining as well. To do so would be doing this job a half assed one…something true rehabbers are not involved in doing.
Doing a buy and tear down just will not happen too much in the coming years after the troubles we are in the midst of. Also, although the dining room is only 10 X 10, it would be great if it were combined with the kitchen and an eat in kitchen with storage under the center island would add the needed storage space.
Just one more comment regarding the trend of smaller homes. In all my recent (over 5 years time) rehabbing projects, the homes that were from 1200 sf to 1800 feet were the easiest to flip while those that were between 2000-3000+ sf stayed on the market twice as long as the smaller ones. So in my experience, this trend has been going on for quite some time and I think will be carried out for at least another 5-10 years.