A Dining Room Fit for Parties Sells: 4110 N. Southport in Graceland West
We’ve chattered about this 2-bedroom Victorian vintage unit at 4110 N. Southport in Graceland West several times (and yes, we had a discussion about whether or not this is “Lakeview” or “Ravenswood” or “Graceland West”.)
See our December 2009 chatter here.
The unit had all the bells and whistles including central air and an in-unit washer/dryer. However, it didn’t have deeded parking.
It also had a lot of its vintage features intact and a large enough dining room to hold some serious dinner parties.
Eric Rojas at Prudential Rubloff had the listing.
You can also check out Eric’s real estate blog here.
Unit #2: 2 bedrooms, 1 bath, no square footage listed
- Sold in December 1993 for $100,500
- Sold in July 2004 for $253,000
- Was listed in September 2009 for $289,900
- Reduced
- Was listed in December 2009 at $285,000
- Sold in May 2010 for $262,000
- Assessments of $226 a month
- Taxes of $2842
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the Unit
- No parking
- Bedroom #1: 10×9
- Bedroom #2: 10×9
- Living room: 18×10
- Dining room: 16×12
- Kitchen: 12×12
Nice dining room indeed, but it’s still a one bath, so one’s dinner guests will use the same bathroom the host uses heavily (and showers in), and vice versa.
This buyer got a very good deal. I can’t imagine a place like this in the Southport nabe going any lower. This is a beautiful apartment.
Good luck to sellers of 2 bed condos in Rogers Park, Edgewater, and West Ridge who are asking $250K-$350K for comparable properties.
This sale is an indication that we have a lot of drop in front of us. Sellers are still clinging to unrealistic prices.
On the other hand, this is one of the very few places that sold above its nominal 04 price, without extensive rehab/reno, etc. So I’d say congrats to seller and Eric!
Seeing this property sell at this price just made my day. My wife and I will be looking in the area for something exactly like this over the 6 months. Very happy to see this go for well under 300.
Once Eric got paid the seller saw close to 249K. Someone lived here 6 years and still could not turn a profit.
Congratulations to the sellers for getting out when they did.
260K for a rental grade walk up north of Irving Park with no parking? Loolz. The folks who bought this are mos def holding the bag.
The recent drops in the broad securities markets have to be making all the other people who rushed to close last Friday feel more than a little nervous as well.
A place like this in Chicago should cost 180K tops. Have fun calling a cab so you can haul your groceries home for your big dinner parties, because having a car over here without a parking spot is beyond impractical. You are pretty..pretty…pretty far from an L stop in the winter as well. Did I mention that everyone in this neighborhood is 24 years old?
Please bare in mind that I live in E-LP in a substantially more expensive place. I’m not one of those people that’s just hopping to land my “dream house” at a price WAY below market and getting my hate on for a place that I only wish I could afford.
Ok, so that last bit was over the top, but I still think the rest of the post stands.
Down we go…
well it’s not that far a walk from the jewel near addison. just swipe a shopping cart and you have a nice 12 minute stroll.
“Please bare in mind that I live in E-LP in a substantially more expensive place. I’m not one of those people that’s just hopping to land my “dream house” at a price WAY below market and getting my hate on for a place that I only wish I could afford.”
Don’t you know that here on CC if you’re AT ALL bearish with regard to lofty real estate valuations it HAS to be the case that you’re just a sour-grapes crying renter who obviously can’t afford (these similar in quality to rentals) RE places?
You can’t possibly understand the motivations of people with money who can afford places like this. They aren’t concerned with such trivialities as preserving their investment value or overpaying with regards to market rents as they are a fundamentally different tranche of people.
For these modern urbane Gatsby’s they can’t be bothered with such things that occupy the mind of us RE naysayers on cribchatter.
“Once Eric got paid the seller saw close to 249K. Someone lived here 6 years and still could not turn a profit.”
Yes, but a home isn’t an investment; unlike a stock option, one doesn’t buy one simply to “turn a profit”. It has use value. They did LIVE here for the last 6 years, after all…
“Have fun calling a cab so you can haul your groceries home for your big dinner parties, because having a car over here without a parking spot is beyond impractical.”
I live a couple of blocks away from here on Greenview, and this place is a) totally walkable to the Jewel on Southport (when it re-opens)and b) on the Ashland bus route, so the owners can bus practically door-to-door to the Whole Foods on Ashland. Also, in the 5 years I’ve lived here, no one who’s driven to my place has ever had to park more than a half-block away. There are tons of SFHs in the area, which makes street parking really easy.
“You are pretty..pretty…pretty far from an L stop in the winter as well.”
4 blocks to the red line to the east and 4 blocks to the brown line to the west. Although I *do* hate walking from the Sheridan stop late at night b/c you have to walk by the cemeteries (creepy!).
I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea everyone in the neighborhood is young, either. There are a lot of SF homeowners who have been here forever.
Has any one in here thought of having their groceries DELIVERED?
It’s cheaper than a cab, and the delivery man carries them right to your door.
I shop Dominick’s once a month for heavy stuff, like cat food and litter and milk, plus a month’s worth of nonperishables, and have them carry it home. $10 add on to price of my monthly CTA pass.
“because having a car over here without a parking spot is beyond impractical”
You obviously don’t know what you’re talking about, because it’s not at all. I lived on Belle Plaine just west of Southport for a year and never had any problems (besides my car getting flooded because of shitty sewers). People didn’t even complain when they came to visit. The farthest I’d ever have to go was a block north. It helps that it’s zoned and has Cubs night restrictions as well.
Parking here is actually easy here in any comparison. I pulled up in front of the home and parked EVERY SINGLE TIME I showed the place or went over for other reasons at all times of the day/evening. Cub games would be the biggest challenge, but it zoned parking on Cub games so residents were okay.
Chicagobull, $180K is hilarious. Secondly, the neighbrohood is full of not so cheap walk-up six flats and $600K-$1M+ single family homes. Not a lot of 24 year olds in those.
Dan,
“Once Eric got paid the seller saw close to 249K. Someone lived here 6 years and still could not turn a profit.”
How do you know what I got paid? I do this for the people and out of the goodness in my heart!
The SoPo (ha) area’s pricing is just as much an invention of the bubble as the South Loop. When I was 25, this exact area was the place where my friends who “didn’t get it” lived. Yes, they wanted to live in the city, but for some reason those chose a location that added about 45 extra minutes to their daily commute than if they lived in the “green zone proper”.
The craziest thing about this apartment is that it ISN’T EVEN IN SOUTHPORT! But they paid a Southport price for it. You can live in LP, LV, WP, BT, and even parts of the core for the same amount as this place!
You can rent a better place than this with an outdoor space in a more practical location for ~$1500 a month.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/apa/1730692829.html
You aren’t building equity but you have the freedom to bail out on it anytime you want. To me, that trumps any potential falling knife gains you might pick up over here.
My biggest concern with this area is the fear that the current “owners” of the 600K+ places are way under water and are considering playing jingle mail.
There’s a paragraph from the book “The Great Crash” –
It took me forever to find it on the ‘tubes:
“A common feature of all these earlier troubles was that, having happened, they were over. The worst was reasonably recognizable as such. The singular feature of the great crash of 1929 was that the worst continued to worsen. What looked one day like the end proved on the next day to have been only the beginning. Nothing could have been more ingeniously designed to maximize the suffering, and also to ensure that as few as possible escaped the common misfortune. The fortunate speculator who had funds to answer the first margin call presently got another and equally urgent one, and if he met that there would still be another. In the end all the money he had was extracted from him and lost. The man with the smart money, who was safely out of the market when the first crash came, naturally went back in to pick up bargains. (Not only were a recoreded 12,894,650 shares sold on 24 October; precisely the same number were bought.) The bargains then suffered a ruiness fall. Even the man who waited out all of October and all of November, who saw the volumne of trading return to normal and saw Wall Street become as placid as a produce market, and who then bought common stocks would see their value drop to a third or a fourth of the purchase price in the next twenty-four months. The Coolidge bull market was a remarkable phenonmemon. The ruthlessness of its liquidation was, in its own way, equally remarkable.”
The stock market between 1929 and 1933 is parallel to the housing market of 2006 (the very top) to 2013. The difference is that housing is crashing MUCH slower due to the illiquid nature of the asset.
Buyer keep jumping in thinking they see bargains – only to lose money down the road; and those who sit on the sidelines for three now waiting for bargains jump in way too early and shortly thereafter are underwater.
Millions of properties in the shadow inventory. I saw a permanent HAMP loan mod on FRIDAY. Debtor owed $267K between a $217K 1st and a $50k IO 2nd mortgage. The HAMP modification affected only the 1st – 2.0% interest rate for 5 years, and the 1% per year increase until year 8; years 9-40 (yes 40!) were 5.25% interest. And they had something called a ‘principal balance deferment’ where the bank charged interest on only $138k of the $217k owed and the balance was a balloon at the end of 40 years.
Extend and pretend. With modifications like this the bust is going to last FOREVER. This bust is designed to inflict the maximum possible pain on every homeowner in every neighborhood for years to come. History doesn’t necessarily repeat itself, it just rhymes.
All the while the cheerleaders clamor on, like above:
john on May 7th, 2010 at 11:05 am
Seeing this property sell at this price just made my day.
roma on May 7th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
Yes, but a home isn’t an investment; unlike a stock option, one doesn’t buy one simply to “turn a profit”. It has use value. They did LIVE here for the last 6 years, after all…
Eric Rojas on May 8th, 2010 at 6:56 am
Chicagobull, $180K is hilarious.
I have continually kicked ER’s butt on valuation guesses in the past so I’d take his opinion with regard to valuations with a grain of salt. My favorite is on one property he said if it came near my estimated price he’d buy it himself. It did after a year and a half went by and I don’t think he put in a bid.
In other news the FHA wants lenders to start policing the brokers. Hahaha yeah they are really incentivized to do this exactly because?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704093204575216681616788958.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTWhatsNews
The housing market won’t return to normal until the FHA bailout comes and goes and they exit the market. Currently the US Government is involved in 96.5% of all mortgages, which I don’t consider a sign of a healthy environment in the least. The government teet in the housing market cannot continue to pump milk forever and eventually housing will have to be weaned off these measures.
Chicagobull,
While I agree there is going to be plenty, plenty more people in every price-point city-wide bailing in the next several years, your property comparisons are way off base.
The unit you give as a “better” place is very arguably NOT better. 4110 Southport had and larger, better lay-out eat in space/huge windows/great light), larger livingroom and dining room, I’m guessing larger closet space (4110 N Southport had a large closet the length of the dining room on the south side of the room). 4110 N Southport had a nicer, renovated bath, huge storage room in the basement, bike area, two year old large deck off the kitchen (great layout for get togehers and cooking out). Parking is easier at 4110 N Southport.
And oh yeah, you’re not sharing your building or block with post college partiers hanging on to their dorm room mentality.
I don’t think you’re a bad guy, but you’ve shown little in “proof” of your statements about finding better 2 bedroom places south of here to buy and you have been refuted on your neighborhood knowledge for this location by a few people that are in the neighborhood daily. “Better” two bedrooms or, comparable two bedrooms for that matter (not “2” bedroom tiny shoeboxes) are not readily availble.
Also, I don’t understand what a guy with an expensive East Lincoln Park pad like yourself is spending time on a web site pointing out $1500 rentals. Unless, you’re renting that place out… in which case, good play.
HD, I agree with a lot of what you talk about… however, what people forget here is I have to prepare lisitngs within my client’s means and sell properties at top dollar for my clients. I don’t set the market in any way. Sorry dude, no cheerleading. A lot of my time is spent telling people not to buy.
Bob, Bob, Bob…
I was wrong, not way off, on 1750 W Grace and I own a different home. I felt the house on Grace was priced well for an offer and it eventually sold. You obsess. It’s amazing.
It needed material renovation, but not a bad house. It was not my listing anyway.
Secondly, I doubt you have “kicked my butt” at MARKET price valuations and I’m sure someone here somehow has time to figure that out (like you). I think the author of this blog has heard my opinion many times (here and in emails) and I’ve been pretty much on.
I highly doubt you kick butt at anything. Besides of course, shots at the bar, but I’d give a pretty good run there too.
A lot of people here would leave a lot of money on the table for their clients if they were listing and selling property. Otherwise, I’ve been pretty consistent. I have to sell real estate to eat. I’m right enough of the time and provide the type of service for my clients to have a great career.
Eric,
When I posted that rental all I did was go to to CL apartments, put in 2 BRs, and put in the keyword “Southport”. It’s the 5th or so listing from the top. It’s not like I spent a considerable amount of time finding it.
At a glance it’s better than the original listing, not due to being a comp, but because the renter isn’t tied to an asset with a ticking time bomb valuation attached to it.
“All the while the cheerleaders clamor on, like above:
john on May 7th, 2010 at 11:05 am
Seeing this property sell at this price just made my day.
roma on May 7th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
Yes, but a home isn’t an investment; unlike a stock option, one doesn’t buy one simply to “turn a profit”. It has use value. They did LIVE here for the last 6 years, after all…”
Point of clarification: I was highlighting the expressed view that RE is purely an investment, as evidenced by the phrase “the seller could not turn a profit.” I’m about as bearish on Chicago RE values as (just about) anyone here – and think most (non-foreclosure) buyers these days are thinking they see “deals” because prices are cheaper than a few years ago. The relevant comparison for me is not to previous prices but to income and rents; looking at those, it seems clear that most chicago homes remain overvalued. That said, rental parity remains as a relatively robust lower bound. Chicagobull or Eric may be right or wrong about the rental, but at least it’s the right debate. For the record, I don’t think it’s a great comparison, but I’d bet there other rentals in the area (e.g. on Greenview and Grace) that would indicate this is a poor buy.
I apologize for calling you all cheerleaders. I pontificate sometimes and I get a little off on a tangent. I just love that paragraph from above I’ve been searching for a while fo it. Its so poignant. Buyers jump in today looking for bargains only to see value destroyed. That loan mod above is a ticking time bomb for anybody who wants to buy in tbhat suburban neighboorhood, for years to come. I really wish this would all end. I’m sick and tired of rental apartments in the greenzone costing 260k.
You can get a comparable rental property to this unit for much cheaper in “real” Southport or North Center but it will take some looking. I have friends who are looking for a rental in these locations right now.
For the most part- the kitchens and baths are obviously much older (depending on the landlord.)
But if you look hard enough- renovated places are out there.
Take a look at this 2 bedroom vintage unit on Cuyler/Wolcott. A better location in terms of transportation (by the Irving Park Brown line). Has a renovated kitchen and bath and central air. No parking. The only difference is no in-unit w/d (like the 4110 N. Southport unit has.)
One month free so $1279 a month or $1395 a month (really- without the month “free”.)
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/apa/1725547093.html
Should you buy it or should you rent it?
Oh- I also agree with some of the comments, however, that if you’re of a certain age (over 30) you probably don’t want to live in some of the buildings in “real” Southport due to what one person called the “college mentality.”
Also, my friends have seen enough awful kitchens in the rentals to seriously think about buying a condo just to live somewhere they consider “decent.”
“I really wish this would all end. I’m sick and tired of rental apartments in the greenzone costing 260k.”
Then talk to Uncle Sam. Its not until he (we) stops backing the loans for 260k 1br apartments with a low down payment to someone earning 60k/year that this insanity will end.
“I’m right enough of the time and provide the type of service for my clients to have a great career.”
Fair enough ER. It just so happens on much of the time when you are right I scratch my head and wonder “How the heck did that happen?”..but my opinion isn’t the market.
$262k for a 2/1 without parking and a monthly nut of ~$500 before we talk about the mortgage. I’m just waiting for someone to post that they used a 90%+ LTV or FHA loan because we know its true more than half the time on places like this.
“$262k for a 2/1 without parking and a monthly nut of ~$500 before we talk about the mortgage. I’m just waiting for someone to post that they used a 90%+ LTV or FHA loan because we know its true more than half the time on places like this.”
There are many people just going with the 3.5% down on units like these. Yay for the FHA for keeping condos “available” to nearly everyone in Chicago!
Alright, because this is the kind of person that I am and because it was such a nice day, I took a walk over to this place this morning. Yeah, it ended up being about a 10 mile hike.
First, there is a 2/1 for rent in this exact building. I’m not sure if it’s this exact unit. They want $1700 a month for it, but the guy sounded pretty eager to rent it out as it was currently vacant. I sensed there was adequate room for bargaining.
Second, this building isn’t quite as nice on the outside as the pictures make it out to be. The window boxes’ paint is cracked and peeling off. This is truly a rental quality building. There did seem to be sufficient parking in the vicinity, but it seemed oddly dead for Sunday brunch primetime.
Third, when did the Southport area turn into Naperville? I haven’t seen that many boring people and boring businesses since the last time I was in Denver. But not just boring, also strangely empty. Southport was a virtual ghost town compared to Clark, Halsted, and Broadway which I went passed on my way home.
I also distinctly remember this area being much younger and much more “collegey”. Today, it was exclusively populated with the particular brand of 30-to-40-year-old suburbanite types that strike me as the kind of people who go to Orlando and on cruises for vacations. Also, White and Asian elementary school age kids riding their bikes down Southport with no parents in sight. That kind of thing.
Let’s just say I dragged my jaw at least ten blocks. This is straight up “the city as suburbia” in a way that I haven’t seen exist outside of Denver and SLC. I really don’t know what to say. Maybe it was just today and it normally isn’t like that. I’ll need to think on it for a while to figure out how I really feel about it. Let’s just say I didn’t care for it.
I wish I would have cut up Roscoe as I haven’t been over there in a while and I’d like to see what that has become. Next weekend, I guess.
60 Minutes addresses “Walking Away From Your Mortgage”
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6466447n&tag=contentMain;cbsCarousel
Your ‘deal’ today will be underwater tomorrow when your neighbor decides walk away!
See my quote from above:
“The man with the smart money, who was safely out of the market when the first crash came, naturally went back in to pick up bargains. (Not only were a recorded 12,894,650 shares sold on 24 October; precisely the same number were bought.) The bargains then suffered a ruinous fall. Even the man who waited out all of October and all of November, who saw the volume of trading return to normal and saw Wall Street become as placid as a produce market, and who then bought common stocks would see their value drop to a third or a fourth of the purchase price in the next twenty-four months.” – The Great Crash, John Kenneth Galbraith – 1954.
Enjoy!
Chicagobull,
Roscoe = strollers dude!
“First, there is a 2/1 for rent in this exact building. I’m not sure if it’s this exact unit. They want $1700 a month for it”
Some friends just rented a 3/1.5 with den for $1,400 at Belmont and Ashland (which I consider a better location). No it isn’t updated with the newest fixtures but its definitely not slummy and that’s how much rents have fallen here.
Don’t go by asking rents these days as they can be deceiving.
“suburbanite types that strike me as the kind of people who go to Orlando and on cruises for vacations”
LMAO I’m stealing this description and using it in the future. The kind of people who take cruise vacations and talk about having been to exotic locales as evidenced by their six hour port stop on Paradise Island.