A Renovated 3-Bedroom With Lake Views in the Conservatory: 2314 N. Lincoln Park West
This 3-bedroom in The Conservatory at 2314 N. Lincoln Park West in East Lincoln Park came on the market in May 2018.
Built in 1976, the Conservatory only has 35 units. That’s just 2 units per floor. It also has an attached garage and a doorman.
The units have 15×4 balconies with views of the Lake, Lincoln Park and the Zoo as well as the Conservatory.
This unit has been “recently renovated.”
It now has rift and quartered 5″ oak floors, Italian hingeless doors and automated shades on the floor to ceiling windows.
The unit now has a Poggenpohl kitchen with modern cabinets with silestone counters/backsplash, Wolf, Miele and Thermador appliances along with a 48 bottle wine fridge.
All 3 bedrooms are en suite.
The master bathroom has 3 shower heads, jets and heated towel bars.
The listing says there are 3 brand new HVAC units and Elfa closets.
The unit has washer/dryer in the unit and garage parking is included.
Originally listed in May 2018 for $1.2 million, it has been reduced $220,100 to $979,900.
Buyers love renovated units because they can just move in.
Is this a deal for this location?
Natasha Motev at Jameson Sotheby’s has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #17S: 3 bedrooms, 3.5 baths, no square footage listed
- Sold in September 1989 for $370,000
- Sold in August 1995 for $378,000
- Sold in February 2013 for $699,000
- Originally listed in May 2018 for $1.2 million
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $979,900 (garage parking included)
- Assessments of $2310 a month (includes heat, a/c, doorman, cable, exterior maintenance, lawn care, scavenger, snow removal)
- Taxes of $14,320
- Central Air
- Washer/dryer in the unit
- Bedroom #1: 15×14
- Bedroom #2: 14×11
- Bedroom #3: 15×11
Nice place with a great view.
HOA a mess or special looming?
You are out of $3500/mo between taxes and HOA even if you paid cash for this place. It is a nice looking crib and view, but those assessments are brutal. 20% down at 4.25% you are looking at another $3850. So you are at $7350/mo for a typical buyer… that is a tough nut to swallow.
“rift and quartered”
good explanation here:
http://lacrosseflooring.com/blog-articles/plain-sawn-vs-rift-quartered/
I think this place is gorgeous and the views are amazing, but yeah, that assessment is a killer.
Also, vessel sinks need to die.
So people saying the taxes + HOA are a killer – I don’t disagree but I do think people aren’t comparing apples to apples. This includes heat + a/c + lawn care + snow removal + cable. How much does this cost for a comparable place? Lets say you were looking at a small SFH. Would it be $1k per month? The taxes will be the same for any place in the $900k range (this place actually seems to be under assessed for tax purposes). So you are really talking about paying like $1300 more per month vs what you would pay for a SFH since taxes are the same and some of the stuff in the monthlies you have to pay for in a SFH also.
I think people just don’t factor this stuff in when comparing because the costs are less transparent in a SFH.
I don’t think the competition for this place is SFHs, I think it’s other luxury hi-rise buildings.
Regardless, the biggest expenses for the HOA aren’t hvac/lawn/snow removal (ie expenses you’d have in a SFH), the biggest expenses are the doorman and elevator.
“heat + a/c + lawn care + snow removal + cable. How much does this cost for a comparable place?”
heat–budget payment of ~$140.
a/c–summer incremental electric of ~$100/month for 5 months.
Lawn care–minimal, but that ignores projects.
Snow removal–zero, but that ignores bank injury potential, and the bag of salt once every ~8 years.
Cable–~$50/month for multiple streaming services, and the peace of mind of not contributing to the fox-news-, or ESPN-Industrial complexes.
So, more like $250/month, tho I’m sure I put in more effort, and get lesser results. But, I would seriously dislike being locked into having cable.
Yoss — ” Lets say you were looking at a small SFH. Would it be $1k per month?”
——————
As others have said, far less. Gas/Electric (translation: Heat and A/C for most “small single family homes” — in my estimation and without great amounts of insulation/eco-modifications, etc. would PEAK at $500/$600 a month, so the average would be far, far, lower. Let’s be asininely (read, r.e. agent trying to convince buyer this is a deal) generous, and say utilities are $600 a month, not including cable. Add $200 for bells and whistles cable/internet/wifi. Sing and dance all you want, but opium-smoking exposure brings you to $800.
So anon(tfo) is absolutely right: $250/month realistically, Stretch it to $400 month average to shut up the whiners.
Sounds like too many sweet heart deals made between vendors and board members. Hard pass.
“the biggest expenses are the doorman and elevator.”
And not even just those two things Madeline. It’s also:
1. On-site maintenance man. A building this size would have at least one or two.
2. Daily cleaning. Have to keep the floors clean in the lobby and in each elevator bank.
3. Pick-up of recycling: probably maintenance man does this daily.
4. Packages? Who handles deliveries from Amazon etc? This is a building with just 35 units, so perhaps the doorman would cover it.
How many doormen would they have in a building this size. 6 or so to rotate through 24/7? That’s where most of the cost comes in. You are paying their health insurance etc.
Those of you complaining about the HOAs have no idea what a “full service” building entails and how many people it takes to run one smoothly. You pay for those services. Otherwise, you are living in a SFH and picking up your Amazon packages in their lockers down the street somewhere or risk your packages being stolen off the front stoop.
Someone with a million dollar budget wants their packages handled.
And yes, Madeline, I agree that elevators are a huge expense. This building was built in 1976. The elevators are due to be replaced. 35 owners have to pay for that. It’s expensive.
“I think people just don’t factor this stuff in when comparing because the costs are less transparent in a SFH.”
Correct- Yoss. What do you pay to replace a SFH roof or that cracked driveway? What about when some of the shrubs die in the summer heat wave? Are you paying someone to come and landscape and take care of the yard?
Do you want to be out there on days like this morning, shoveling your front sidewalk because that’s the law and the neighbor may call and report you?
There are a lot of costs that come up later in home ownership that are covered monthly in a large building.
Oh- and the cable/wifi is much cheaper. Larger buildings can use their size to bid it out and actually get a really reduced rate. Some may not care anymore with all the streaming services but they can get cheap high speed Internet that SFHs can only dream about at that same price.
” So you are really talking about paying like $1300 more per month vs what you would pay for a SFH since taxes are the same and some of the stuff in the monthlies you have to pay for in a SFH also.”
Even if were true that it would cost as much as $1,000/month for expenses to keep up a SFH (which others here are disputing) on stuff that is covered by the HOA fee in this unit, you’re still looking at the extra $1,300/month as equivalent to the interest (minus tax deduction) you would pay on an extra $500,000 worth of mortgage. In other words, paying $979,900 for this unit would put you out an identical amount as buying a SFH for $1,479,900 that requires $1,000/month maintenance cost.
Don’t forget that many well-managed buildings set aside a portion of assessments for reserves. Therefore when the roof goes, the elevator, the boiler, etc., it is often covered by the reserves. If you live in a house and the HVAC goes, or the roof needs to be replaced or the gutters cleaned, that’s 100 percent on you. Other issues that come up for homeowners: tuck pointing, exterior repainting, flooding after a big rain, etc. When factoring in the long-range cost of assessment, we also need to consider these larger one-time expenses homeowners pay. And, we shouldn’t assume buildings will always issue a special. Most well-managed buildings try to avoid specials and raise enough within reserves to cover these often anticipated major improvements.
“Most well-managed buildings try to avoid specials and raise enough within reserves to cover these often anticipated major improvements.”
If I’m not mistaken, the Conservatory had a huge special assessment in the building not too many years ago. I don’t know if it was their only one. I used to think one should not touch buildings that have a history of having a special assessment with a ten foot pole. But in the past few years, I realized that that eliminates almost every building over 20 years old. Sky high assessments do not seem to guarantee never having to fork over for capital replacement projects – just the same as replacing your own roof in a SFH.
cracked driveway?
WTF? Who has a driveway? We don’t live in Naperville, Sabrina.
@ Vissi
To be clear, are you suggesting that every time a building has a major improvement project, it issues a special assessment? If so, that’s completely inaccurate.
And, keep in mind, when there is a major improvement project in a SFH, the owner pays the bill. There are no “reserves” collected monthly to cover these costs. To truly compare the cost of assessments vs. the cost of SFH ownership, we should account for the improvement projects that come up in a SFH that would otherwise be covered by building reserves.
what is this area like?
crime wise shopping wise etc
thanks
the “name”
and the email in the leave a reply or being automatically filled out with someone elses information
🙁
“Snow removal–zero, but that ignores bank injury potential, and the bag of salt once every ~8 years.”
This is only zero if that is the value you place on your own time.
“This is only zero if that is the value you place on your own time.”
Ok, so are we then adding monthly costs for commuting time, too, as a meta-HOA? And additional costs for a larger home, for the time one wastes walking from room to room, or cleaning?
There is no end to that sort of accounting.
“and the email in the leave a reply or being automatically filled out with someone elses information”
Well- at least we know it was that plug-in doing it. Sorry Gary!
If anyone knows any decent subscribe plugins, let me know. But I can’t find any on wordpress that aren’t messed up.
I deactivated it.
“what is this area like?
crime wise shopping wise etc”
Well, you are in one of Chicago’s nicest neighborhoods across from the Conservatory and the Zoo. What more do you want to know?
You have to walk over to Clark to get any restaurants/shopping. Is it Logan Square, River North or West Loop type restaurants? No. More local neighborhood type places in this area.
“WTF? Who has a driveway? We don’t live in Naperville, Sabrina.”
Plenty of homes in the city still have small driveways they have to repair, anon(tfo).
Like this one in, gasp, Chicago:
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/6308-N-Knox-Ave-60646/home/13514104
Gosh, here’s another one anon(tfo).
Gasp!
A driveway. Imagine that.
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/6031-N-Kilpatrick-Ave-60646/home/13515688
Once again, it took me all of, oh, 3 minutes to find this beauty.
Gosh, what would it cost to have to replace that driveway. Maybe as much as it would in the suburbs anon(tfo).
And this is just 2 neighborhoods. There are a LOT of Chicago homes with driveways, despite the alley system.
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/6880-N-Wildwood-Ave-60646/home/13592778
I remember this building being constructed. The listing says 1976. That’s not entirely accurate. Construction began that year, but then paused for a year or more. I’m not sure if the developer ran out of money or what. I don’t think it opened until 1979 or thereabouts. I was in elementary school at the time, but drove by this building every day on the way to school.
“Sky high assessments do not seem to guarantee never having to fork over for capital replacement projects – just the same as replacing your own roof in a SFH.”
Every building needs repair. It’s only people who bought during the condo boom who think that assessments should be “low” forever and that elevators, boilers, roofs, pool liners, hallway carpet, lobbies and parking garages do not need updating. Heck, even just re-finishing a parking garage, which should be done every few years, costs a pretty penny.
The older the building, the more that has to be done.
Every buyer should do a thorough review of the condo minutes and budget to find out what is going on. These days, most banks will also do the same and they won’t loan for a mortgage on a building with big repairs or lawsuits going on.
Good luck tomorrow everyone.
We are hearty Chicagoans. This will only last 2 days. Lol.
It is in the 70s in LA, however. Damn them!
Wow, a bunch of places in South Niles. You sure got me there, Sabrina!!
Lots of cross shopping between South Niles and Lakeview Avenue, I’m sure.
yea I sure don’t miss THAT weather… lol jeez
I hear they’ve even cancelled Hamilton for the day. Again killed by brrrrr.
“A driveway. Imagine that.”
I think @fo is just trolling my driveway. Which doesn’t really cost that much to shovel. My snow guy is $50/visit, so maybe ~$600 a year tops. I guess I could worry about the cost of repairing my driveway but that’s pretty far down the list of my concerns.
Having a driveway is glorious, especially when there’s a lot of built up snow. Maybe the nortcenterites are so civic minded they shovel their alleys. Or maybe so rich they have heated alleys.
“Ok, so are we then adding monthly costs for commuting time, too, as a meta-HOA? And additional costs for a larger home, for the time one wastes walking from room to room, or cleaning?
There is no end to that sort of accounting.”
So by your sort of non-accounting, you have a lot of free money you are forgoing. You could just stop maid service etc and be that much wealthier.
“yea I sure don’t miss THAT weather… lol jeez”
Were you in Chicago in 1985 Sonies? Because that was the last time it was this bad. Basically, it has almost NEVER been this bad.
And many years we go without even seeing temps under zero. This winter has been mild so far until the last week.
The thing about these extraordinary weather events, is that it actually brings the city together. And you never forget it. Many of us can remember every blizzard and how we had to shovel the walk with 22 inches and 3 foot snow drifts even if it was 30 years ago.
“Wow, a bunch of places in South Niles.”
Sauganash and Edgebrook are “south Niles”?
Well, won’t they be upset to hear that when they go in to vote for the new Chicago mayor.
Give me a break anon(tfo). I can bring you driveways from all over the city. Admit it. You were WRONG. Very, very wrong.
Yep. Here’s another one anon(tfo)- sorry, just looking around and found it within, oh, about a minute.
This one in Peterson Park.
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5932-N-Richmond-St-60659/home/13518258
These houses on Virginia Avenue all have front driveways. They back up onto that lovely park area though. Similarly, those on the Chicago River in this neighborhood also have front driveways.
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5544-N-Virginia-Ave-60625/home/13494189
Gosh anon(tfo), could this be a, gasp, driveway right there just minutes from the lake in Jackson Park Highlands?
Oh my god!
But it’s THE CITY! There aren’t driveways in THE CITY!
http://cribchatter.com/?p=13526
“Sauganash and Edgebrook are “south Niles”? ”
———————-
Nope, and I have that on good authority. An R.E. agent just last week told me the area was called North Bucktown.
““I think people just don’t factor this stuff in when comparing because the costs are less transparent in a SFH.”
Correct- Yoss. What do you pay to replace a SFH roof or that cracked driveway? ”
The number 2 thing Sabrina thinks of of as a cost that a SFH owner has that is covered by a HOA in a condo is a cracked driveway. In a city where the median SFH doesn’t have a driveway. It’s just weird.
If I had provided a reverse example (that is, that SFH owners don’t have to bear any share of the cost of an elevator), she would have gone ape about all the SFHs that DO have elevators.
It not about universality, it’s about good examples.
I will also note that NOT ONE of the driveway examples has even been arguably in the GZ. Notwithstanding that I could find several in just a few minutes, were I so inclined. Try harder!!
“I will also note that NOT ONE of the driveway examples has even been arguably in the GZ. Notwithstanding that I could find several in just a few minutes, were I so inclined. Try harder!!”
Yawn. Boring.
The argument is dumb because there are plenty that have to replace a cracked driveway. The cost is high. You keep moving the goalposts. First it was “no one in the city has a driveway” – which is wrong. Then it was “that’s south niles” which is wrong. Now it’s “not one has been in the GZ” which we all know is also wrong.
So what’s the point? Because 20% of Chicagoans have a driveway they don’t count and repairing or replacing that driveway isn’t an expense? It is. (by the way- I don’t know if it IS 20%. I’m making up the number. But we know it’s not 0%.)
Maybe it’s because I know someone who just paid thousands to do so that it’s on my mind. But people underestimate how much they pay for repairs on a SFH because they’re not writing a check every month and then suddenly spend thousands.