A Sign of Things to Come in Lakeview? 2-Bedroom Short Sale at 817 W. George
This 2-bedroom short sale at 817 W. George in Lakeview just came on the market.
It is listed about 28% under the 2004 purchase price.
We’ve chattered about this building before- but on a unit on a higher floor.
If you recall, it has maintained much of its vintage woodwork including crown molding and built-ins.
It appears that the dining room, with its beamed ceiling, is being used as a den.
The kitchen has maple cabinets, granite counter tops and white appliances.
The unit has central air, washer/dryer in the unit but there’s no parking.
A lis pendens foreclosure was filed 19 months ago. In Cook County, the average time for the bank to re-take possession is about 18 months.
Is this unit one of the many REO or short sale Lakeview condo units that has been lurking in the shadow market waiting to come on the market in 2012?
D. Waveland Kendt at @Properties has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #1W: 2 bedrooms, 1 bath, 1399 square feet
- Sold in September 2000 for $255,000
- Sold in January 2003 for $289,000
- Sold in October 2004 for $317,000
- Lis pendens foreclosure filed in August 2010
- Currently listed as a “short sale” for $229,900
- Assessments of $345 a month
- Taxes of $5505
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- No Parking
- Bedroom #1: 11×12
- Bedroom #2: 9×11
one uneven unit
Beautiful old place with plenty of space and wonderful vintage details for this price.
Change a few colors and fixtures here and there, and the place is perfect.
I’m surprised by the price drops in Lakeview, Haven’t seen prices like this for a long time there.
yes
i really think no parking (and no central a/c, though this has it) is a deal killer for these east lakeview vintage units. parking is a nightmare over there.
that being said, i think it is a good deal at $229k. same size as this place. is an extra bathroom and a parking spot worth $150k?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/632-W-Buckingham-Pl-60657/unit-2E/home/13375766
“same size as this place. is an extra bathroom and a parking spot worth $150k?”
And “new” and in a different part of the hood and and and …
This listing has a parking spot albeit not a garage one. I think it’s a great deal and I wonder if the bank will approve it for that … it seems like they usually try to get an extra $10 or $20 grand out of people.
I’d rather be on George than Buckingham. The further south the better. That said, the unit itself on Buckingham is nicer although I’d guess the construction on George is better.
With that being said, this definitely is a sign of things to come. The cost of these condos is still too high over the long term when you factor in the true cost of ownership.
Nice try jfmiii. Not even close with your comp.
“Change a few colors and fixtures here and there, and the place is perfect.”
LOL. Hardly. Where’s the 2nd bath, the parking, the low assessments.
Damn, I think it’s a great deal. I love these big vintage units.
Damn, I think it’s a great deal. I love these big vintage units.
It is for people who are car-dependent, but I am always surprised how many people I meet who move to Chicago from NYC or SF or Seattle or Portland (or Europe) who can’t fathom why in a city with god public transit so many of us want to deal with the hassle and expense of a car.
I’ve slowly grown to understand that for folks like me who grew up here, by our 30s and 40s we have friends and family scattered around the City/region and a car saves boatloads of time. But for a newcomer, they are going to explore their own hood first, and good public trans options are all they need. Specific to this place, it’s in a location that would take you 5 years to fully appreciate. And the train station is a 5 minute walk away.
“i really think no parking (and no central a/c, though this has it) is a deal killer for these east lakeview vintage units. parking is a nightmare over there.”
Convert to SFH?
“This listing has a parking spot albeit not a garage one”
No it doesn’t.
A short sale on a condo in Lake View is new news? Not to mention one that doesn’t come close to hitting the minimums buyers expect?
I think conventional wisdom would guide you to conclude this should go back to what it once was, an apartment.
I’ve always thought of this as a very dull part of Lakeview. Unless Halsted has changed a lot, this stretch has never been interesting, and Clark Street over here has way too many strip malls. I’d rather be farther east a couple blocks.
And exactly what is to the immediate east of this property? Definitely doesn’t look residential, but hard to tell from the picture. I’d prefer to live on a street that’s wholly residential.
I’ve always thought of this as a very dull part of Lakeview. Unless Halsted has changed a lot, this stretch has never been interesting, and Clark Street over here has way too many strip malls. I’d rather be farther east a couple blocks.
And exactly what is to the immediate east of this property? Definitely doesn’t look residential, but hard to tell from the picture. I’d prefer to live on a street that’s wholly residential.
I just did a street view to figure out what’s directly east of here. It’s a very old one-story building that looks like a coach house, but fronts on the street. There’s a big dumpster along the alley right beside it. Unclear what the place (or the dumpster) is used for.
I should add that otherwise, this looks like a very nice street. For some reason, though I’m familiar with Lakeview from having lived there many years, I never remember walking down this street in my life.
” Unclear what the place (or the dumpster) is used for.”
The Union:
http://www.chibarproject.com/Reviews/Union/Union.htm
Beautiful unit but lack of parking and to a lesser extent the lack of a second bath hurt it. Reasonable deal with those limitations I think, not screaming at all though.
dan2, I think the appeal here is that you have a solid 2 blocks in every direction that are somewhat mellow while still being absurdly close to all kinds of things- you have an excellent movie theatre at the Century just for starters. The bars/nightlife might not be your thing, but the Vic is a 5 min walk, Wrigley is maybe 15, loads of stuff in between.
The Union hasn’t been there for at least 2 years. What used to be the Union is now the George Street Pub, which is much nicer than the Union ever was. I actually prefer this area of LV to ELV – it is much quieter and closer to the El, and much closer to everything else. Also, in Lincoln Park Schools/Alcott.
The only real issue I’d have with the unit is that the first floor here is too low for good security.
Parking is a non-issue for many people in Lakeview. Many people enjoy living in a city and neighborhood where you can dispose of your car. I’m one of them. I have a feeling that in another decade or so, that parking will be a non-issue for many thousands more people. Try using a car-share service like I-Go or ZipCars and you might find that you can easily live without the $7000-plus a year expense of auto ownership.
“Parking is a non-issue for many people in Lakeview. Many people enjoy living in a city and neighborhood where you can dispose of your car. I’m one of them.”
Yes these are service sector or entry level/admin job type people. Don’t look to such people to save RE valuations in Lakeview, either.
“I have a feeling that in another decade or so, that parking will be a non-issue for many thousands more people.”
RENTERS, maybe. BUYERS, no.
Laura- I’m curious to know what you think would be high enough for a first floor for security purposes. Do you think there is a marketable difference between a 1st floor at ground level, a first floor that is several feet off the ground, and one that is 6-10 feet off the ground (like many “high” first floors in greystones)?
LOL. So much delusion, so little first-hand knowledge. So the hundreds and hundreds of people I see in suits/nice business wear every day taking the bus downtown off of inner LSD are all in the service industry. Sure. My brother was working as a banker when he was at roughly Wellington/Broadway and making great coin – he took the bus to/from work and cabs any other time he wanted to get around. You see Bob, contrary to your experience, people with money actually don’t need cars as they don’t blink at taking cabs. The area is flooded with cabs, try walking a block east of Sheffield on any major street without seeing one, I triple-dog-dare-ya.
Was my brother renting? Yes – renting someone’s condo. That person was a property owner, investing due to an are with high rental rates. See how this works? It’s not really rocket science – a neighborhood with beautiful vintage buildings, great amenities and public trans access attracts people with money, not just baristas as Starbucks (not that there’s anything wrong with that).
“Yes these are service sector or entry level/admin job type people. Don’t look to such people to save RE valuations in Lakeview, either.”
I can appreciate skeptic’s comments about this area of Lakeview being a quiet alternative and yet near all the attractions. Makes lots of sense.
However, I wouldn’t want to be on the first floor across the alley from a pub.
Yes, many of the people that live around here are well-off, yet take public transit to work and use cabs. That doesn’t mean they don’t own cars, in fact most own one or more very nice cars; and when it comes to buy a property most will want it to provide convenient nearby reserved parking for said cars. Regardless of the neighborhood, properties that do not offer this amenity will sell at a significant discount to those that do.
btw, not that parking is that bad around my hood, but anyone questioning the appeal/value of proximity to the subway/elevated train should play around here:
http://www.suntimes.com/10993637-417/map-did-your-neighborhood-change-cps-tiers.html
No argument there. But Lake View isn’t Manhattan, it’s not really that hard to find a place to park and leave your car, it’s just not a place you want to rely on street parking on a daily basis if you don’t have to.
“Yes, many of the people that live around here are well-off, yet take public transit to work and use cabs. That doesn’t mean they don’t own cars, in fact most own one or more very nice cars; and when it comes to buy a property most will want it to provide convenient nearby reserved parking for said cars. Regardless of the neighborhood, properties that do not offer this amenity will sell at a significant discount to those that do.”
@ skeptic, I had the same debate with someone CC regarding public transit. I don’t remember the posters name but he/she kept claiming, only the poorz use the CTA. Of course that’s utterly ridiculous.
People, mostly those not from here originally, pretend Chicago is like Manhattan. It isn’t. 95% or more of folks use a car every day. The other difference is many Manhattanites actually walk to work (the whole way, no subway). Given the number of porkers roaming the Chicago landscape, that is definitely not the case here, not even close. Lake View is more like Brooklyn than Manhattan anyway.
Nothing in the world, including the other boroughs, is like Manhattan. It’s TINY, so of course it’s easier to walk to work, if for no other reason than if you can afford to live there you likely work there.
But I highly question the “95%” figure. You clearly don’t take the CTA much, it is packed to the seams and firing on all cylinders during rush hour, but it is still generally more reliable and less stressful than driving – and the stress factor is why proximity to L stops often carries an inverse relationship to one’s income. Poor people can’t afford to live within walking distance of a train, supply is far outweighed by demand. Go to the Fullerton or Belmont red line stops in the morning, or the brown line anywhere southeast of the Western stop and you will see hordes of professionals. Only a knucklehead would pay $200 -300 a month for the privilege of being stuck in rush hour gridlock twice every day.
“People, mostly those not from here originally, pretend Chicago is like Manhattan. It isn’t. 95% or more of folks use a car every day. The other difference is many Manhattanites actually walk to work (the whole way, no subway). Given the number of porkers roaming the Chicago landscape, that is definitely not the case here, not even close. Lake View is more like Brooklyn than Manhattan anyway.”
“People, mostly those not from here originally, pretend Chicago is like Manhattan. It isn’t. 95% or more of folks use a car every day.”
Highly doubt the 95 percent (even if statement were weakened to “almost every day”).
Skeptic, thanks for making sense. I have no idea who this 2nd bathroom must have a parking spot stereotype of a person is. There aren’t actually many people who live that way in Chicago. Most of the 2br condos in the city are 1 bath without a parking space. And if you are looking at vintage 2br condos they are predominately 1 bath without parking. And they actually sold. People own them and presumable like them.
Also, this entire buyer/condo person vs. renter/apartment person analysis is nonsense. It has no basis in reality. So apparently, a renter of a 2br, 1ba, no parking space apartment who likes their apartment would suddenly not want it if it became a condo and they owned it. And how does the switch in personality take place? As a person who has owned multiple properties and currently rents, I would like to know how it works. I want to be prepared for the change when I become a buyer again.
BONUS QUESTION: Am I more or less likely to get food poisoning if I rent a 2br/1ba and my car is parked on the street than if I was the owner of a 2br/2ba with a parking space?
I believe there is a pre-existing condition known as “schadenfreude” which may explain some personality traits here. I was never a fan of the obscene speculation/rapid rise of property values, but to extend that dislike to a hatred of anyone who wants to own their own living space seems very petty and sad – and taking pleasure in people getting hurt by the bust is just wrong, people buying property in 2002 – 2008 weren’t all speculators, many of these people are now working hard to improve their local schools and are better citizens than the old school cynical Chicagoans ever were.
“So apparently, a renter of a 2br, 1ba, no parking space apartment who likes their apartment would suddenly not want it if it became a condo and they owned it. And how does the switch in personality take place?”
“Skeptic, thanks for making sense. I have no idea who this 2nd bathroom must have a parking spot stereotype of a person is. There aren’t actually many people who live that way in Chicago. Most of the 2br condos in the city are 1 bath without a parking space. And if you are looking at vintage 2br condos they are predominately 1 bath without parking. And they actually sold. People own them and presumable like them.”
I agree, you have no idea. Let’s take a look at what has actually sold.
2011 Total Chicago 2BR condo sales = 4,714
2011 Total Chicago 2BR 1BA condo sales = 1,151 (24%)
2011 Total Chicago 2BR 1+BA condo sales = 3,563 (76%)
# baths / % of sales
1 24%
1.5 6%
2 64%
2.5 5%
3+ 1%
Parking data is a little less reliable. I don’t know how prevalent misuse of the field really is, but based on sales in areas where it would be most common, the “offered with no parking” sales could potentially be ~30% higher than the reported total below.
2011 Total Chicago 2BR condo sales = 4,714
2011 Total Chicago 2BR condo offered with no parking sales = 985 (21%)
2011 Total Chicago 2BR condo offered with parking sales = 3,729 (79%)
I couldn’t disagree more. People will often rent something with lower expectations than if they were buying. I have heard countless people tell me they are happy with the place they are renting, but wouldn’t own it because….. You have never heard the following? “I would never buy this place because (insert, no laundry, parking air, bathroom, indoor volleyball court).” Yet they have been happily renting that same place for 5 years.
” this entire buyer/condo person vs. renter/apartment person analysis is nonsense”
I also disagree with the concept of who uses the CTA and who doesn’t. Though I could never imagine living more than a half mile walk to the loop, I have ample friends, colleagues and accomplices that do. They mostly do use the ‘L’ (Buses are an entirely different story.) because with greater responsibility comes greater demands on time and punctuality. Countless seven figure incomes utilize the relative dependability of the CTA every day. Conversely, the ‘service industry’ mentioned above is more likely to drive and park. How they justify the first hour of the work day to cover their parking and starbucks I have never understood. Though I may be towards the extreme with three downtown parking spots and three cars that I use a combined total of well less than twice a month…Chicago is a driving city. It is a city where if someone is going to have the responsibility of home ownership, they want to know they owns parking spot for when they have to take that job with Walgreens and start their reverse commute. Its not going to change before our societies dependence changes and that if ti ever happened would take generations.
Long time reader, first time poster, yadda yadda yadda…
I had to comment on JMM’s assertion that 95% of people drive every day. I work for one of the largest operators of commerical real estate in the downtown Chicago market. We’ve actually randomly surveyed well over 5000 people from our buildings’ populations, and found that less than 10% of people drive to work. The one data set that I literally have in front of me is for a sample of 470 people from a single high-rise in the central loop. At that propoerty, 8.2% drive solo, 3.6% drive with 2+ people in the car, 64.5% of people take trains (CTA & Metra), 6.3% take the bus, and 5% walk to work. In some buildings (especially those that don’t have a parking garage) we’re at less than 5% driving to work (although people driving to the Metra and leaving their cars there may bump this up a few points depending on how people answered the questions). These numbers are fairly consistent accross CBD of Chicago (although you’ll likely get more drivers the farther you go from the Metra Stations).
Our experience is that the people driving are typically either execs, people whose jobs require them to be mobile (sales/service) to areas outside of the CBD, or people with irregular hours that are commuting from the burbs.
“Countless seven figure incomes utilize the relative dependability of the CTA every day.”
Haha there aren’t countless of such people out there. 235k nationwide in 2009. Chicagoland only a fraction of that, access to L only a fraction of that, and aside from a few geeky old law partner legal beagle wonks, I don’t see countless rich people using public transit. 1MM/yr is top .1%. The few I know in this set either walk to work or have a towncar w/driver.
“Chicago is a driving city. It is a city where if someone is going to have the responsibility of home ownership, they want to know they owns parking spot for when they have to take that job with Walgreens and start their reverse commute. Its not going to change before our societies dependence changes and that if ti ever happened would take generations.”
I agree with you on this. Too many people I know who get by in the city without a car don’t really care about the option of opportunities outside city limits. I have an unemployed friend who sold his car a couple years ago to save some cash as he didn’t need it at the time now not being able to pursue opportunities in the burbs. Chicagoland is a lot bigger than Chicago and people
Also without dedicated, OFF STREET, parking you become a target of the city with their short lead time announcement of street sweeping times (sometimes they just put up a couple signs on trees a hundred ft away), and idiot parkers who will ding your car/bumper & not leave a note. If your car isn’t 100% street legit then that’s a problem too (no city sticker/mods/tinting/etc).
This is why I still find it humorous the bubble brought crazy expectations for properties lacking any basic modern amenity (central a/c, in unit w/d, off street/covered/garaged/heated garage parking). Most people with the real income and means to purchase property in this segment aren’t willing to settle for lack of amenities that are considered standards and staples of the areas many grew up in.
JPS said it best and G proved skeptic is a moron who lives in a bubble with no idea what he is spouting off about.
err..Chicagoland is a lot bigger than Chicago city limits and people often forget that.
“Haha there aren’t countless of such people out there. 235k nationwide in 2009. Chicagoland only a fraction of that, access to L only a fraction of that, and aside from a few geeky old law partner legal beagle wonks, I don’t see countless rich people using public transit. 1MM/yr is top .1%. The few I know in this set either walk to work or have a towncar w/driver.”
Right on, Bob. People making big money DRIVE to work and have reserved monthly parking spots in the garages of the Class A office towers. You can even get your car hand washed in these buildings. Go visit the garage of a Class A building and look around, plenty of nice cars in them, all clean.
You can also tell alot by looking at the car dealership plate-things that surround the IL license plates in these garages. suburbanites will have Fields bmw, autohaus on edens, bredemann, knauz while city dewellers will have perillo, mcgrath, fletcher jones, and howard orloff.
I had no idea it was that easy to be in the upper tenth of a percent. Are you certain that number isn’t counting only the number of people with ordinary income over seven figures? Because I will agree a pay check over 1 million is rare… but I think we could start listing names and get to 235k of seven figures earners inclusive of all classes of income … I question that statistic.
Haha there aren’t countless of such people out there. 235k nationwide in 2009. Chicagoland only a fraction of that, access to L only a fraction of that, and aside from a few geeky old law partner legal beagle wonks, I don’t see countless rich people using public transit. 1MM/yr is top .1%. The few I know in this set either walk to work or have a towncar w/driver.
“but I think we could start listing names and get to 235k of seven figures earners inclusive of all classes of income … I question that statistic.”
You should get a tshirt printed up for the G8.
“Are you certain that number isn’t counting only the number of people with ordinary income over seven figures?”
I believe the article I read was on reportable income, which is IRS figures. No, illegitimate income won’t be counted but everything else. Obviously statistics aren’t kept/reported on the under the table market. But I’d imagine it is also very difficult to gross that amount even via illegitimate means consistently.
At the .1% level you’re talking about the monkey at the top of the ziggarut/pyramid. And for skeptic to act like these individuals use CTA in any sort of appreciable or noticeable way, I found completely comedic.
Err “And for GDR to act like these” not skeptic. My apologies.
Bob, It says a lot that you don’t understand what ordinary income is. I would be fairly comfortable stating that most with an aggregate income exceeding seven figures aren’t going to see it as wages. They will see it as gains and passive income.
“They will see it as gains and passive income.”
IRS taxes passive income. And no I still doubt your theory that there are bunch of 7-figure deferred income titans of industry that take the CTA on any sort of regular basis. I find it comical.
Skeptic
people in SF, Seattle, Portland do not have the weather we have here. If it was warmer in Chicago, I would notneed a car. If the weather wasn’t as extreme in the summers, I would not need a car either. As a teacher, I sometimes have too much stuff to bring without a ca r. My parents also prefer me to have a car. They would hate to have to pick me up and drive me back on weekends. They did these trips to bring their parents to the burbs for holidays when they were alive. 4 driving trips is not fun in a day ii n and out of the city in holidays.
Ah.. the old million a year public transportation debate.
I will take the side of stay home and watch episodes of Justice League
Also without dedicated, OFF STREET, parking you become a target of the city with their short lead time announcement of street sweeping times (sometimes they just put up a couple signs on trees a hundred ft away),
The street cleaning times are on the city’s website, your alderman’s website, or sign up here: http://sweeparound.us/ to get emailed/texted when the street cleaning parking bans are in place on your street.
“The street cleaning times are on the city’s website, your alderman’s website,”
Nice try–they change these things all the time. That website is not updated to reflect changes of quickly upcoming street cleanings.
Much as the city is supposed to pre-announce DUI checkpoints. Once I was baffled at being stopped at one (8pm sat night on Western) so went home to confirm the officer’s response that they’re pre-anouncement–that one was NOT.
So sorry Barb you live in a bubble where you think the city actually follows through on their commitments–my real world experience has been different.
Err madeline not barb. Too early to deal with these cheerleaders who believe in big govt.
Also I’ll admit that dedicated off street parking will _not prevent_ your new set of wheels from getting dinged. Happened to me on _both sides_. Thing is, what it will do is force them to leave a note because you know who parks there and can go check their vehicle for paint damage. In my lot 2/2 on notes when some idiot dinged my parked car. Street parking 0/1 on notes.
And if I’m out of town on a trip, Madeline, you can go and move my car from a street sweeping day that wasn’t properly announced. But as they frequently do one side one day and the other a day or two later, you might have to move my car a couple blocks away.
See Bob. I bet you would be happier if you watched more cartoons.
I watch Ren & Stimpy and Family Guy.
Helmethoofers observations that suburbanites buy their vehicles in the suburbs just blew my mins.
Homedoofus with the capital H, the point was that city dwellers’ upscale cars in Loop garages can be identified, separate and distinct from the suburbanites’ cars, showing that many rich city dwellers drive to work and don’t take the CTA.
..and I found it to be one of the rare comments in which HD demonstrates that he has a bit more brightness than my lava lamp. 🙂
A good chunk of Chicago is not serviced by the El, anyone without a car is missing a big chunk of it by pretending they live in an urban oasis. The El is a mid-entry level professional office worker commuting option. The kind of person who wears an ID badge on their belt. My point is he/she still wants a car to drive to Whole Foods (as almost every other whole foods shopper does) to blow half of paycheck on overpriced yuppie food.
Blue collar and low level service wokers take the bus.
Most suburban professionals either drive or take Metra.
“Nothing in the world, including the other boroughs, is like Manhattan. It’s TINY, so of course it’s easier to walk to work, if for no other reason than if you can afford to live there you likely work there.”
Not really. It seems very comparable to the neighborhoods discussed here. If fact, it might be a little bigger than various acceptable neighborhoods given Chicago’s abundance of gang infested ones.
http://kottke.org/plus/manhattan-elsewhere/
Looks like the property got a contract over the weekend.
An insult by Bob on CC is basically the equivalent of a compliment in normal civilized/intelligent society. I know a realtor (we used her, in fact) who has been living/working a block away from here for decades. Don’t assume just because you and your friends are fat lazy slobs who can’t walk to the train that everybody is.
So just to clarify, I did not say parking wasn’t desirable, simply that isn’t necessarily a dealbreaker. I had no comment whatsoever on the bathroom thing, being an actual Lake View native who with the majority of people back in the day often shared one bathroom per family. Desirable, no. Apocalyptic? Please.
And G didn’t disprove my point on the parking, he proved it.
“Parking data is a little less reliable. I don’t know how prevalent misuse of the field really is, but based on sales in areas where it would be most common, the “offered with no parking” sales could potentially be ~30% higher than the reported total below.
2011 Total Chicago 2BR condo sales = 4,714
2011 Total Chicago 2BR condo offered with no parking sales = 985 (21%)
2011 Total Chicago 2BR condo offered with parking sales = 3,729 (79%)”
JMM summed it up nicely. The thing is the bubble turned these apartments into condos and the mid-entry level folk at 30-65k thought it was perfectly acceptable to pay 300k+ for places like this using funny financing. Would it have ever sold for even 250k back in 2000 if it required normal financing?
“A good chunk of Chicago is not serviced by the El, anyone without a car is missing a big chunk of it by pretending they live in an urban oasis.”
No doubt about it.
These places should have never been converted from apartments but that issue is neither new nor is it a sign of things to come.
I go back and forth on this, actually. Chicago is chock full of craptastic near-ghetto apartment complexes, both in terms of the condition of the buildings and the residents. This is usually as the building owner is either a slumlord, an out-of-area investor, cash-flow poor or some combo of these.
One silver lining of the condo boom was buildings got rehabbed and fixed up and people now have some actual skin in the game as far as upkeep and not letting them go to hell in a handbasket. The price corrections are painful for many who find themselves ready/wanting to move to larger homes (or out of Chicago), but putting down some roots and taking some ownership of your neighborhood isn’t a bad thing.
“These places should have never been converted from apartments but that issue is neither new nor is it a sign of things to come.”