A Single Family Home for Under $200K in Andersonville: 5209 N. Ashland
Yes, it’s bank owned. But this 4-bedroom single family home at 5209 N. Ashland in Andersonville is listed under $200,000.
It appears from the pictures that the kitchen and some of the bathrooms have been stripped from the house.
It doesn’t have central air but it does have a 2 car garage. Two of the bedrooms are on the second floor and 2 are on the lower level.
Is this a steal?
Anthony Nasca at Coldwell Banker has the listing. See the pictures here.
5209 N. Ashland: 4 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 2 car garage
- Sold in April 2000 for $240,000
- Lis pendens in June 2008
- Bank owned in November 2009
- Originally listed in November 2009 for $209,000
- Reduced several times
- Currently listed at $188,900
- Taxes of $4891
- No central air
- Built in 1907
It looks like this house is at the rear of the property with a garage at the front, not much for curb appeal. The see though fireplace and cinderblock arch-way are really strang as well.
I think this property will languish until it becomes (extremely) cheep enough to look past all the ugly/weirdness. It does need substantial work, but once done it could be a nice house for a family with 2-3 kids. Looks like there ia even a bedroom in the basement for the mother-in-law. This looks like a good canidate for a 203(k) FHA loan.
The neighborhoods not the greatest, but it has its good points. Ashland and Foster are very busy streets and that will turn off a lot of buyers.
I assume the bottle of Lysol is included. That could make a difference.
Tom,
I think you’re right. I believe a 4 car garage takes up the front of the property. Yeah, the MLS says 4 cars.
Love the fireplace. I would be all over this place.
Weird property. $316k first mortgage and then some weird quitclaim with a second mortgage for $40k shortly afterwards and then some city litigation is on going. This woulda/should/coulda been a tear down during the boom.
Thanks for posting about this place, Sabrina. I think having the house on the back of the lot with the garage facing Ashland is a big plus for this place. I’m curious if anyone knows whether the place needs any major structural work. Surely there’s a lot you could do with 150K in renovations as long as the place isn’t about to collapse.
Lately I’ve been thinking that buying a place on a major street might be a good way to avoid paying the 6 – 8K in property taxes that a lot of SFH owners seem to get slapped with. But it seems like there’s no rhyme or reason to assessments in Chicago at times, so maybe that’s a bad reason to buy something on Ashland.
This is a VERY good deal for some one with the cash to do the necessary work, which looks like about $100K worth if you are careful and economical.
Yes, it has a lot of ugliness in some places, but a lot of charm in others. Nice architecture, good location.
I wish I were in a position to buy it.
Nice architecture? You must have more vision than I do because I don’t know where any nice architecture is hidden under all those weird jutting angles and columns and porches. I was thinking it needs a complete exterior overhaul…maybe re-clad the facade in something really modern?
” the 6 – 8K in property taxes that a lot of SFH owners seem to get slapped with”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Most of the SFH-owners-in-the-city I know (n.ctr, mainly, a few LV and LP) have $9-$15k tax bills. Unless they’ve lived there for a *long* time + are “seniors” or if they have a home improvement exemption (7 years, right?).
Danny: I would caution purchasing on a major street to avoid property taxes only until after you have investigated the local TIFs. While not a major bump, I end up paying 200-300 more yearly due to my address.
Might only matter if there is commercial on the same strip as your place.
That said, if it is the right property and somewhere you want to live paying into a slush fund dedicated only for your neighborhood could have perks. Mine is that we get the sidewalks cleared by people on ATVs with plows early in the morning. Well that and hanging flower planters.
Local government is absolutely f**ked if $9-15k in taxes on a SFH isn’t enough.
A $12k tax bill is $1,000 a month. That’s insane. No wonder our government is in shambles.
“#anon (tfo) on January 12th, 2010 at 8:46 am
” the 6 – 8K in property taxes that a lot of SFH owners seem to get slapped with”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Most of the SFH-owners-in-the-city I know (n.ctr, mainly, a few LV and LP) have $9-$15k tax bills. Unless they’ve lived there for a *long* time + are “seniors” or if they have a home improvement exemption (7 years, right?).”
I’ve been in this place. it is very small and has a strange layout. There is nothing old and charming about this house. i think it should be torn down.
My guess is the city litigation is due to code violations (there’s a sticker on the garage for fast-track demolition). I think you’d be throwing away money to spend 100k on repairs.
It’s on an alley it shares with a number of restaurants/bars and other commercial stuff. At $189k, if I owned a business or a commercial building in the 5200 block of Clark, I’d be tempted to buy it, tear it down and use it for parking.
It’s zoned B-3-2 (as are the two neighboring lots–two to the north is RS-3), so it shouldn’t ba an issue.
“Local government is absolutely f**ked if $9-15k in taxes on a SFH isn’t enough.”
It’s not enough in OPRF, Evanston, New Trier. I know people in all three paying over $20k/year for nice, but not spectacular, homes, on average-ish lots.
I know, that’s insane, that’s not sustainable. Maybe in New Trier or what not. Along the same lines I saw a house in st charles (my god that’s far away) it was listed for $399,000 and the taxes for $11,000 a year. ‘generally’ in cook you need a house at least 50% more expensive to break into the 5 figure property tax range but in Kane county, I don’t know how people can afford that. I have an above average household income and I look at those figures and cringe. I wouldn’t be able to save any money for retirement or college educations or for a rainy day. That’s another great reason to be a renters (yes I know i indirectly pay for RE taxes but nowhere near $11,000 a year, hell my yearly rent isn’t $11,000!). To me this just isn’t sustainable, no wonder we have so many foreclosures. Job losses, subprime loans, large mortgage balances and high property taxes are such a toxic brew.
“It’s not enough in OPRF, Evanston, New Trier. I know people in all three paying over $20k/year for nice, but not spectacular, homes, on average-ish lots.”
OPRF taxes aren’t $20k per year unless you are in a $1 million dollar home which is hardly “average” in OPRF. Typical $400k-$600k house taxes are around $6-$9k, but given the schools and other public services, it isn’t such a bad deal.
Ohhh.. I spoke too soon. Fast-track demolition is very bad.
Russ is on point with Oak Park taxes are not really that insane there and a NICE home is in the 600k-900k range. and from what i recall River forest are a % or two higher the OP?
north shore taxes fall on the “are you serious” side of the fence. But the public amenities are a good reason to pay those property taxes.
Russ: “OPRF taxes aren’t $20k per year unless you are in a $1 million dollar home ”
And Chicago taxes aren’t $15k unless you’re in a $1 million home, either. And I have friends who pay well more than $20k/year in OPRF. Apples to apples.
HD: “a house in st charles (my god that’s far away) it was listed for $399,000 and the taxes for $11,000 a year”
Seriously? What was the prior sale price?
There’s a lot of variation, but OPRF taxes seem a good 20 percent higher than taxes in say La Grange for the comparably priced houses. I have heard that taxes are a little lower in RF than OP for similarly priced houses.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Geneva/702-Maple-Ln-60134/home/14186674
It was $10,054 not $11k sorry, but still, that’s a lot of money for a house that lists for $399k
My redfin search for houses between $375 and $400k yields taxes between $7k a year up to about $11k
http://www.redfin.com/search#lat=41.91607416876307&long=-88.32149505615234&market=chicago&max_price=400000&min_price=375000®ion_id=29514®ion_type=6&v=5&zoomLevel=13
This McMansion has $11k in taxes for a $389k house
http://www.redfin.com/IL/St-Charles/2602-King-Richard-Cir-60174/home/16993698
i agree that the high property taxes are not sustainable in the long-run. They are one of the reasons people aren’t “making money” on their properties in the long-run. They are always excluded from any calculations or info from the NAR about building long-term wealth in real estate.
My share of rent is around $1,000 a month, and I couldn’t imagine paying that just in property taxes.
If anything, the high home prices in many suburbs are also not sustainable. Declining incomes and changes in demographics with retiring baby boomers will only cause prices to go lower versus inflation in the next 10 years or so.
“It’s not enough in OPRF, Evanston, New Trier. I know people in all three paying over $20k/year for nice, but not spectacular, homes, on average-ish lots.”
Anon (tfo), I don’t know how you define nice homes, but there are very few homes in OPRF that command a $20k annual tax bill that wouldn’t be considered spectacular.
I just closed a deal yesterday on a $900k home in the Mann School district of OPRF. The tax bill is $15k per year. This is the best elementary school district in OPRF.
I toured this property and brought along my GC friend. His conclusion? He’d start with a bulldozer.
HD:
“This McMansion has $11k in taxes for a $389k house”
It’s assessed as if it’s worth $600k.
“It was $10,054 not $11k sorry, but still, that’s a lot of money for a house that lists for $399k”
Assessed as if $450k.
Had no idea St Chux taxes were so high.
“there are very few homes in OPRF that command a $20k annual tax bill that wouldn’t be considered spectacular”
I’ve seen a number of listings for OP around the $1MM range that have tax bills in the high teens, maybe not quite $20K, although I am sure there are some of those too. Seems higher than for $1MM houses in some other places.
Nobody cared much about rising RE taxes during the boom because they paled in comparison to outsized cap appreciation. Now that ponzi scheme is up but the crazy high taxes aren`t going away any time soon.
Instead of modifying mortgages, we also need to modify property tax bills. For all the talk about how ARMs adjusted hurting homeowners, rarely ever does the issue of sky high property taxes come up in contributing to this mess.
I don’t mind my property taxes as I feel like I am getting something in return – great schools and other services but at some point you are like WTF?
Local governments can’t handle revenue decreases of the magnitude that would exist if property taxes were modified on a large scale. They would have to raise their rates in order to raise the same revenue.
The ridiculous thing is that there were significant budget deficits even during the boom. Local revenues from property taxes have most likely increased 70-80% in the past 10 years.
High taxes pay for (primarily) government worker’s salaries; and they’re all unionized and the unions have a powerful sway and are a powerful voting block. So in the end there’s a standoff between the union that needs higher taxes to pay the salaries of its members and the collective homeowners who want lower taxes.
Sorry Russ but the bloated fat RE owners never cared during the boom (share the phantom wealth with the schools as it were) & now these people fiscally flame out. And for those within city limits you should know the answer to your requested relief!
And unions are stronger than homeowners because they are organized and have the right connections in Chicago. Union members are also more likely to vote in local elections.
Overall, high property taxes along with high sales taxes will make the region less competitive for attracting the companies and high skilled workers that will drive the Chicago economy for the next 10-20 years.
Russ:
This one:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Oak-Park/324-Linden-Ave-60302/home/13272205
is $19,782. And the sort of place I’m talking about. It’s assessed as if it’s worth $824k (down from a 88,619 assessment in ’08), and has home improvement exemptions. Listed at $1,150,000. Nice (very nice), but not spectacular, like 509 N Oak Park is–listed at $2.25m, with taxes of $38k.
HD: “High taxes pay for (primarily) government worker’s salaries”
With a HUGE component for pensions, which remain seriously underfunded. Next time you have a homeowner filing chapter, take a look at their actual tax bill, which has a separate line item for the pension component of the City and County bill. I guarantee you’ll choke.
In Chicago it is obvious who has the upper hand in the Unions vs Homeowners standoff! I think I`ll avoid jumping into a losing battle & keep renting.
Bob, not sure how you figure people didn’t care during the boom. Maybe the specuvestors didn’t care since they never kept their properties long enough to really pay taxes over an extended period, but most homeowners I know certainly cared.
The problem with government is that once they start spending the money, they won’t make the cuts necessary when revenues dry up like any business or household would.
My taxes are high enough to where I definitely would like them lower, but I also feel like I am getting good value relatively speaking.
So Bob, you would like to be a millionaire renter by 2020 due to your not buying property and saving all that additional money over time?
Wait, should I post the New Trier township house that is on the market for $1 million with 48k in taxes?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Kenilworth/515-Kenilworth-Ave-60043/home/13781313
Of course, the taxes are “under protest”… I wonder if the mold caused by the indoor pool left uncovered is also under protest.
I’ve got some files with tax bills I’ll see if I can find them.
I heard through the grapevine that non-union city attorneys just got a 10% pay cut in addition to the furough days. So let’s say you made $70k the furloughs reduced your income to $63k and then with the 10% cut from the salary income is down to $56k! That’s quite a haircut.
“This is the best elementary school district in OPRF”
sorry to differ but River forests Lincoln and Roosevelt are in the top 10 of the state!
As a private sector worker with a grad degree where can I get a pension like a garbageman with a HS diploma & a city connect???
Its all a balance brothers.
look at it this way, the same house with same lot (assume similar hood);
Burbs you will pay higher taxes but lower purchase price for the house
city low ass taxes but insane price for the house.
in the end taxes will always get bigger but the price you paid for your home cant change.
so whats the wild card there?
…and now for you guys to rip my simple theory apart with the little details.
Interestingly enough if you ask county workers how they got their jobs they will almost always freely divulge who or what organization got them the job without any shame whatsoever. Totally true for the sheriff, clerk’s office, hospital, forest preserve, etc.
“#Bob on January 12th, 2010 at 10:13 am
As a private sector worker with a grad degree where can I get a pension like a garbageman with a HS diploma & a city connect???”
“the New Trier township house that is on the market for $1 million with 48k in taxes”
I think that’s teh one G and I had a long back and forth (sort of talking past each other) regarding the results of an appeal. G convinced me that it would be basically a slamdunk to have the taxes dropped ~2/3s, at least until the next re-assessment, when I would expect the assessment to go back up to on par with the neighbors–which would likely still be lower than the current assessment.
Of course, everyone w/o *declining* assessments will be paying higher taxes in the next few years. So even if the assessment wound up (in 2012, after the next re-assessment) at 1/3 less than current, I wouldn’t bet against taxes being $40k+ again.
Dave M its not just Chicago facing a huge competitive disadvantage over the next 10-20 years: whenever you have a large portion of the poqulace voting themselves money out of public coffers it never ends well.
that k-worth pad is a surprisingly nice place for a mil and change. walking distance to metra too. must be really moldy.
Groove, the wildcard is the schools. You don’t have to pay for private schools in the burbs.
Mann is the OP elementary school that Oak Park residents go for. RF is also a bit pricier than OP. Good to see their elementary schools are top notch though. OPRF don’t merge until high school.
*I heard through the grapevine that non-union city attorneys just got a 10% pay cut in addition to the furough days. So let’s say you made $70k the furloughs reduced your income to $63k and then with the 10% cut from the salary income is down to $56k! That’s quite a haircut.*
Close – they took away all our paid holidays and made us take 12 forlough days. So yeah, that’s about right.
Garbage men make more than City Attorneys. Way more, and they get overtime, and basically can never be fired.
“that k-worth pad is a surprisingly nice place for a mil and change”
4 houses on the block for sale: $1.095, $1.225 (taxes=$23k; appears empty), $1.550 (taxes=$33k), and $1.795 (taxes=$36k). Gotta hate that if you’re selling.
“RF is also a bit pricier than OP. Good to see their elementary schools are top notch though. OPRF don’t merge until high school”
I am well versed in the OP RF schools there as its #1 on our list for burbs to move. We ruled out OP cause of the elem and middle schools (can get the same education in chicago area schools)
And we are priced out of RF. for the past year we have been waiting for a place to pop up between chicago and lake st.
we love OPRV, since we live right next to it we are there all the time. we ate at wineberry and Flat top 2 out of the last three days.
Welcome to Chicago where we reward unskilled labor at the expense of those who were naive enough to think education was a way to improve their lot in life.
“Mann is the OP elementary school that Oak Park residents go for.”
I find it a bit frustrating that many of the houses that catch my eye are in Holmes, which I’ve been told is not nearly as good. There’s a FLW home at 6 Elizabeth Ct that is in Holmes that looks great from the photos.
Why is that? Because the unskilled labor block always votes (D) and they will always live within the city limits. The carpet bagging Big 10 educated folk hang around the ‘green zone’ for a couple of years until they get married and have a kid and then quickly move to some suburb or back to the home state. only recently, and by recently I mean within the last 10 or 15 years, have things changed and small but brave professional class of city dwellers have chosen to stay in city and raise their children in CPS elementary or private schools before jettisoning out to naperville.
“Bob on January 12th, 2010 at 10:38 am
Welcome to Chicago where we reward unskilled labor at the expense of those who were naive enough to think education was a way to improve their lot in life.
“
“And we are priced out of RF. for the past year we have been waiting for a place to pop up between chicago and lake st.”
What’s your target price groovester? Taking a quick look, it seems the cheapest places in your zone are about the same as the cheapest K’worth places (ie ~$600k). Bet there will be places in the low-500s by the fall.
re: OPRF taxes:
Checked on another acquiatence in RF–bought the house in ’04 for $950k, currently assessed as a $940k house–taxes? $23k. And headed up when their improvement exemptions expire.
“What’s your target price groovester? Taking a quick look, it seems the cheapest places in your zone are about the same as the cheapest K’worth places (ie ~$600k)”
in Kworth there were a few homes in the high 400k to mid 500k this past summer and fall.
the 600k range is if we hold off on more kids for 5 or more years. 400k is manageable if she wants to squirt out another one in the next year. (planning she will wont go back to work during bun in the oven and until the new bundle of joy is 15 months old).
“We ruled out OP cause of the elem and middle schools (can get the same education in chicago area schools)”
Are the RF elementary schools substantially better than Mann or Lincoln (in OP)? OPRF is not very high on our list but I always assumed Mann and Lincoln were very good. I have heard that middle school is a problem in OP.
“I have heard that middle school is a problem in OP”
The high school also has been getting a tad worse each year.
River Forests schools (8th grade under) are way better TEST wise. but have heard (not witnessed) parent culture is different once you cross harlem ave. also you loose the diversity that you get in OP.
Isnt it fun being a parent!
Granted, I don’t have kids yet, but I would probably send my kids to even the worst OP elementary school which is still pretty damn good compared to all but the very best in CPS from what I have seen. The middle school seems normal which means there is a diversity of students and backgrounds across all income levels. If your kid isn’t already slow or has a normal home life, I can’t see the middle school being all that bad.
I don’t know why every parent these days thinks every kid in a school needs to be on track to getting in Harvard or else the school sucks. I have been to some bad schools in my life and believe me when I say there isn’t a single school in OPRF that qualifies as “bad school”
“I don’t know why every parent these days thinks every kid in a school needs to be on track to getting in Harvard or else the school sucks. I have been to some bad schools in my life and believe me when I say there isn’t a single school in OPRF that qualifies as “bad school””
Big fat second.
Screw you guys at this point my kid is a genius and is on track to harvard. I know its unrealistic but every (even logical) parent thinks that at some point. that point maybe longer for others 🙂
Russ,
it is crazy that almost every parent feels the need for the best schools, its cause deep down we know odds are our kid will be average if not below average and a average kid at a sup-par school is a bad combo.
I went through the CPS system (barely got out) and have seen the the best and the worst of it. (i went to Wells in the late 80’/begining 90’s for a short while)
i in my heart if my kids are average cannot send them to a CPS school unless its the best.
*Welcome to Chicago where we reward unskilled labor at the expense of those who were naive enough to think education was a way to improve their lot in life.*
Hit the nail right on the head.
Bob,
Nothing is stopping you from becoming a garbage man. Simply pay a $1,000 donation to your local alderman or county board rep, and then do 40 or 50 hours of canvasing prior to the Feb primary and you too can land yourself a job as a garbage man making $50k a year or more. Good luck.
homedelete on January 12th, 2010 at 10:52 am
“Why is that? Because the unskilled labor block always votes (D) and they will always live within the city limits. The carpet bagging Big 10 educated folk hang around the ‘green zone’ for a couple of years until they get married and have a kid and then quickly move to some suburb or back to the home state. only recently, and by recently I mean within the last 10 or 15 years, have things changed and small but brave professional class of city dwellers have chosen to stay in city and raise their children in CPS elementary or private schools before jettisoning out to naperville.”
Amen to this. I remember being at some bar in Wrigleyville 4-5 years back and seeing some woman with a custom t-shirt that said “I’m Never Moving To Naperville” on the front and “773 For Life” or something similar on the back. Looking back, I should have given her a pat on the back.
tehgroove: “i in my heart if my kids are average cannot send them to a CPS school unless its [one of] the best.”
Another big fat second, as modified. We’re moving/splitting residence if our kids are “average”–no way in hell they’re going to CPS attendance area HS, unless there’s a miraculous transformation in the next ten-ish years.
What suburb will you flee to anon(tfo)?
For me, not being too nuts about school is not worrying about getting my kid into Decatur/Edison and being ok about something like Bell. I can see how that can seem nuts to others.
I guess in some sense maybe I would be ok sending my kid to e.g. one of the lower ranked OP schools, but why would I choose that if I don’t have to? I don’t see any downside of my kid going to a better school, besides not wanting him to be too surrounded by privilege (I know that sounds odd given what else I’ve said, but it’s all relative) and not driving ourselves too crazy in our house search.
“What suburb will you flee to anon(tfo)?”
dunno. If we were leaving today, we’d leave the county, too, so Hinsdale/C.Hills, Elmhurst, HP, Deerfield would be on the top of the list for consideration. But it’s not a real enough prospect to narrow it down beyond that.
Little would make me happier–local politics-wise–that the north suburban townships seceding from Cook County. It would open a world of reasonable options.
“Little would make me happier–local politics-wise–that the north suburban townships seceding from Cook County. It would open a world of reasonable options.”
HP is Lake County. That’s the better alternative. Palatine talked about it for a while, but nothing really happened.
anon must be a lawyer.
Sorry, Deerfield is too, but HP is better for loop lawyers like anon.
I don’t think anon practices law anymore but he definitely went to law school. But for as much as he posts he may be semi-retired and independently wealthy. especially since he likes the whole north shore thing.
HD — off topic.
Do you ever see many chancery actions related to Alliant Credit Union? I’ve been seeing them pop up more for large jumbo financings (its pretty easy to become a “member”). Wonder if they are new to the game. Always curious to know where the cheap money is at.
We going to start guessing who everybody is? Really?
“We going to start guessing who everybody is? Really?”
Nah, but the lawyers are pretty damn easy to spot.
“Palatine talked about [seceding] for a while, but nothing really happened. ”
Problem is, they need a majority vote in both the seceding area and the remaining area. I’d support it from either side. Hell, Cook should be split into at least 3 counties, with Chicago standing alone as a city/county like Indy and Miami. I can deal with two levels of corruption, but three is really too much.
I haven’t seen much with Alliant. I’ll keep my eyes open now that I know they’re around.
“Alliant Credit Union”
25 lis pendens showing on ccrd with ~3600 mortgages, involving Alliant [Credit/Credit Union/CU/Etc).
“Another big fat second, as modified. We’re moving/splitting residence if our kids are “average”–no way in hell they’re going to CPS attendance area HS, unless there’s a miraculous transformation in the next ten-ish years”
I am speculating here, but i continue to say, Becuase of the bubble burst many are stuck where they are at for a while. and this in turn may be a positive for CPS schools. concerned parents who would just up and move to a better school are now going to have to make the best with what they got and demand better.
so in 5 years if i am correct we should see a upswing on CPS schools in “trendy”, “Green zones”, and a few “urban pioneer” areas.
the negitive will be, in these upswing schools area, is the housing (when RE turns around) they will have a preimum added to it for future buyers.
Just FYI, I bought a tiny two bedroom condo in OP for just under 200K in ’06. The taxes have remained around $3600 a year despite my appeal last year when multiple units in the building were selling for under 150K.
I really love customizing my space and can’t shake the fantasy of buying a big project house and fixing it up over several years. But given the crazy (and random) tax bills I’ve seen, I can’t bring myself to buy. There was a really cute 2/1.5 ’70s townhouse in LP on the market recently for around 350K that I loved, but the tax bill was over 6K. SFHs and two flats are still listing for 500K+ in Andersonville and Edgewater from what I’ve seen. I’d love to stay in Chicago but I can’t see myself being a renter forever and the thought of throwing out over $500 a month on property taxes breaks my heart. It’s really my only big complaint about living in Chicago.
“Hinsdale/C.Hills, Elmhurst, HP, Deerfield would be on the top of the list for consideration”
I keep forgetting about deerfield, prices are good its Lake county, just to far of a commute for me.
Hinsdale/C. Hills way out of my price range to get into Hins Central HS district.
Elmhurst i think we argued about before, i think it pretty but schools are ok and i want better than ok.
anon, i dont think you will leave the city and north center (yes that where i think you live). but i know if it comes down to city or a decent education for your spawn/s you will do what is required
for the grooves, everything we do and love to do is in the city or OP. i dont think i could stray as far as lincolnshire (realy amasing school district) or even as far as Glenview. NW i would go up to eddison park. N as far as kworth. W wife say naperville i say river forest. S i would love to be in Hyde Park if there were a decent CPS option.
so as you see i mentally cant go very far from the center of the universe! 🙂
There are listings in Hinsdale under $600K. You would be the low income people in town but that has to be true in Kworth too.
Why is everyone so geared towards the upper class suburbs? Send your kid to prospect, hersey, stevenson, GBN, GBS, Maine south, you can get a decent house in anyone of those areas for $500k. Yeah you’re a little farther from the city but just as many of those kids go onto Big 10 or ivy league schools as new trier, HP, hinsdale, etc. It’s a very similar subset of children.
“There are listings in Hinsdale under $600K. ”
And there are listings in C. Hills (same Elem and HS district as H’dale north of 55th) under $500k. Don’t know about the elems, but that’s why it’s on the list, not *the* place.
“GBN”
Not prepared to exclude Northbrook from “upper class” suburb. Has at least as much cache and Wilmette.
“There are listings in Hinsdale under $600K. You would be the low
income people in town but that has to be true in Kworth too.”
Hinsdale is a complete mess from a days sales inventory perspective. Lots of pain is forthcoming there, IMO. Think you can get much more for your money there with an aggressive deal vs. north shore.
The difference between Wilmette and Northbrook is that one is next to Wheeling whereas the other is on Lake Michigan. Northbrook is the north shore suburb for those who can’t afford to live on the north shore. Again, Wheeling is just down the road.
“JMM on January 12th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
“GBN”
Not prepared to exclude Northbrook from “upper class” suburb. Has at least as much cache and Wilmette.”
“The difference between Wilmette and Northbrook is that one is next to Wheeling whereas the other is on Lake Michigan.”
And Wilmette borders Skokie, not even separated by a forest preserve.
“And Wilmette borders Skokie, not even separated by a forest preserve.”
Where the hell else are you going to find a proper deli?
“Where the hell else are you going to find a proper deli?”
Semi-serious response to a jokey question: Highland Park, no?
Which is just down the road from Northbrook, too.
does Wheeling even have residential i just thought it was all restaurants?
We live in River Forest, and looked in both Oak Park and River Forest. We chose an older mid-sized brick house which needed work but had character, good bones, and a wonderful yard. Our taxes have doubled in 7 years, to $17,000 for a relatively modest house. Unless you buy a really small house, River Forest is no longer affordable to a two-income non-high-flier household (ie: not a surgeon, not a corporate attorney, not a hedge fund manager, etc).
RF schools much better quality than our previous suburb, but school buildings are older and crowded. RF residents are nearing tax revolt, despite approving a school referendum two years ago, and not likely to support a school bond issuance for new school construction. RF school board seems to recognize that limitation. Schools do have a noticeable number of minority students, of wide socio-economic diversity. There are inexpensive apartments available along North/Harlem/Madison/Lake major streets, and some minority students live in those apartments, but not all. RF middle-school is far stronger than OP’s two middle-schools, which are considering camera installations to forestall significant discipline problems in-school fights and thefts. OP parents are resigned to middle-schools’ lackluster academic performance. We were happy with RF schools, but RF is NOT in “top 10” list for Illinois elementary or middle schools.
OP-RF share OPRFHS, though OP kids predominate 6:1. Wish that RF would seceed, and open its own HS. Discipline and drug problems are rampant at OPRF, quickly evident to any parent who spends time in classrooms on parent visitation days. Far too much politically-correct tolerance of “cultural diversity” issues of bad language, inappropriate clothing, over-sexualized behavior, rudeness, disrespect for classroom decorum, etc. Lots of white kid ghetto-wanna-be mannerisms. Declining test scores, year after year, coupled with failures to meet “No Child Left Behind” criteria for minority students. Acknowledged 5% annual expulsion for residency law violations. OPRF is slowly being dragged down to CPS’ Steinmetz quality – if your teenager is a highly motivated and well-behaved kid then a good education can be had, but if there are learning disabilities, rebellion, or motivation problems, your kid could easily disengage from school. We know plenty of OPRF families in this situation at present.
So where did we send our teenagers? Catholic HS, even though we’re not Catholic ourselves. $17,000/year, and add another $30,000 for HS x 4. Not the situation we had expected when we moved here.
Groove I’d love to hear more about Pak Park, if you live nearby. We don’t want to leave the city but we have one kiddo now and more to come, so space and schools will become an issue. As much as we want to be near the lake the north shore burbs are out because I went to a high school where you could count the minorities on one hand- no thank you… Huge snob factor. Oh and taxes. We want 1-close to city 2- diversity 3- city like vibe (walkable, lots to do, etc.)
I actually just sent Sabrina a gorgeous OP home (in Mann district no less) maybe she’ll post it…:)
“I actually just sent Sabrina a gorgeous OP home (in Mann district no less) maybe she’ll post it…:)”
i think she stay’s far away from the burbs for her blog. something about not doing it justice or something.
OP is great for all you listed. Russ and Archetict live there so hopfully they will chime in for you too. I live in the city but a 5 minute drive to OP.
OP has IMO the beautifulest(sp) victorian and prairie style homes in IL. mature tree lined streets and a great art community.
as diversity its pretty black and white, and that pun was intended. on the streets you will see only black and white i will catch a asian here and there, only see hispanic working in the restaurants, no middle eastern or other races around. but again i dont live there.
but if you want to stay in the city look into Lincoln Square. Its very diverse, brown line away from Downtown and a very nice walkable hood at decent prices. schools on the other hand umm are not there yet.
Groove, are you in Galewood? I think that Galewood is Chicago’s remaining “secret good family neighborhood”, with nicely-kept housing stock, great bungalows, low taxes, and excellent commuting. (Newish Brickyard Mall is a comprehensive shopping center too.) If so, consider staying in Galewood rather than moving to Oak Park, and rely on Catholic schools – they all now allow open enrollment, so you can pick and choose schools. What you save in taxes, you can spend on private education choices.
I’m thinking of Galewood for us.
Also note that Oak Park and River Forest houses are a good value for their prices, when compared to SF houses in Lincoln Park and Lakeview. Plus the streetscaping, mature trees, and beautiful architectural-quality homes are hard to find elsewhere. Most suburbs and neighborhoods don’t have that same distinct beautiful neighborhood feel.
Oak Park has more architects in residence than any other Chicago suburb.
Real estate takes are high in Lake County. HP and Deerfield may have less expensive homes than Glencoe, but taxes more than make-up any difference.
River Forest: Just curious if you also considered Riverside when you were house hunting. It too has a lot of unique, architecturally significant homes. I don’t know much about the Brookfield/Riverside High School however.
Absolutely considered, and saw many houses in Riverside. Almost bought two houses in Riverside before moving to River Forest, but in both instances our accepted offer was maneuvered by the listing agent to their purchaser-client. First “lost” house we still regret; second “lost” house would now certainly be considered as priced well above valuation. Both houses had strong architectural character and great charm. Riverside-Brookfield HS has fewer problems than OPRF, and is about half the size.
In retrospect, Riverside may have been a better choice, on other hand, Riverside has experienced game-crime related crimes in past year, including a shooting (s?), drug house raids, and organized gang crime activity.
River Forest’s police department is very vigilant regarding crime prevention. New police chief is retired CPD Gang Crimes unit chief.
“Groove, are you in Galewood?”
River Forest,
No but pretty close, and will agree with everything you said about galewood and it being a nice sweet pocket at the edge of the city.
One thing i did notice over the last 7 years is the Mars comapny workers that lived there moved west to River Groove (see did it again).
The brickyard mall is hit or miss. it can get real ghetto on some days. the bricktown center is mostly always ghetto except for babies r us there.
i will say that i would choose Galewood over OP only because i cant afford what i want there (or afford the upkeep) a Beautiful huge Victorian with a wraparound porch.
You are correct on the Private school aspect if your in galewood. I have a back up fund for private school, but its only for one kid and would rather not use it for private and be able to roll it into the college fund for both of them.
I have a question since your in river forest, What is with the old school Italian families there? are they still “connected” or just stuck in the stereotype mentality?
I shop at Brickyard several times a week at many of the stores; never a problem and I like the convenience and free parking.
No “old school Italian” influence remaining in RF. Italian is one of the three language choices for middle-schoolers, as are French and Spanish. RF still has foreign language, art, music, speech, and strong special ed services. No complaints about RF schools. Though some kids are bratty rich kids, there is little financial one-upmanship by parents. There are some very wealthy people here, but also people who are struggling financially. It’s not New Trier School District, where competition is keenly felt.
RF’s tax base is weak, with probably half the acreag covered by tax-exempt non-profit (hah!) institutional school, church, and college uses. Concordia and Dominican campus absorb significant land area, pay no “payment in lieu of taxes (PILOT)” for municipal services of fire, police, building inspection, water, and sewer services, yet are large and frequent users of those services. Police are often at both campuses, dealing with petty crime.
Dominican has expanded rapidly in recent years, and did a land grab as well, yet exclude RF residents’ use of campus facilities, including no use of its gym and pool facilities. Dominican President is the classic “bad neighbor” example, stating recently that Dominican presence alone was adequate compensation to RF residents for its tax-exempt status. Concordia is a little more gracious, allowing RF residents to use its pool and community piano lesson program, but both institutions are largely responsible for the extremely high tax bills here in RF. RF Village Board is only now realizing this situation, and have very tentatively noted PILOT payments would be beneficial to RF.
RF,
nice write up about the taxes and tax base. its something serious to consider if buying there 🙂
I will say the parking at the brick is super. Everytime i have gone to chipotle i have parked right in front of the door. Pier 1 the same thing.
Even Lowe’s i get great parking, at its Lowe’s 🙂 now i will say when i go to the gym (xport) parking sucks.
I thought dominican opened up there facilities to the town? Doesnt fenwick use the sports field?
“No “old school Italian” influence remaining in RF”
the wife and were eating at pompei (love the panini) two months ago and there was a typical old school italian family there. (read loud and cocky). when i hit up johnny’s for some beef i run into a few old school italian mentality types. and from some of the cars in the drive way closer to north ave. (read caddies). So i just made the assumption.
Groove: Fenwick owns its playing field at the Dominican Priory, and RF Park District owns the remaining acreage. Fenwick is yet another non-profit tax-exempt RF land-user. Dominican “allows” RF middle-school to rent its auditorium for graduation once a year, but there is no other access for RF residents aside from election poll stations.
Elmwood Park: Read some of the Chicago Mob-related books, and see that Elmwood Park continues to play a role, including most recent Family Secrets trial. RF isn’t a solid bastion of good taste, but I bet their are cadillacs in New Trier too. RF is SUV country, and if not Volvo wagon/Prius familiar. Pompei closed recently. If you want excllent cheap Italian food, go to Freddies in Cicero, near 16th and Austin.
sucks it closed, we only go to pompei when we want a quick lunch after shopping the gap and cold navy. i will try freddies if i am out there. (italian eats are a dime a dozen in the chi) have you tried agostino’s? good prices for the huge portions.
question, why hasnt there been a push from residents to use the facilities? i bet the college could make a good penny of charging RF residents.
BTW,
a dream house of mine has been the “haunted” house on lathrop a block south of chicago ave on the corner.
oops forgot the address…..agostino’s is on diversy and harlem
Since half this thread is about the quality of the schools in Oak Park, I might have a bit to contribute.
Our older boys graduated from OPRF in 2005 and 2006. Neither set school records for excellence in academics but my oldest graduated from UIC last May and our middle son is at UIUC. We were happy with the education OPRF gave them.
Our youngest is now at Brooks, starting at OPRF this September. Roosevelt Middle School in River Forest probably is better but Brooks is OK. We did prefer Oak Park’s Lincoln Elementary to Brooks.
Philadelphia Catholic schools taught me in the 1960s and 70s. In my opinion, Brooks and OPRF did a better job for my sons than St. Bernard’s and Father Judge did for me.
Hi Jay,
I have heard great thinks about lincoln, and mixed about brooks. Thank you for jumping on in, even if its a blog post about andersonville 🙂
I always get off topic and drag the off topic convo even further. my wife and i have been going back and forth about moving, it helps bouncing ideas and opinions here. we are 87% positive that we are putting the house up for sale this spring.
UIUC great big ten school, if you go visit your kid in late spring stop at custard cup. (i just gained 1 lbs thinking about it).
Redfin shows this as under contract currently, can anyone confirm?
I almost purchased this property. During the home inspection we discovered that in certain parts of the home (previous owner added sections on) no insulation existed btwn the inside and outside walls, too many issues to list. The inspector basically said that the place needs to be torn down as the foundation is not solid.